Collapse of the Folk Clubs

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:07 AM

Mmmm, nor quite,

It was Bellowhead at the LNE and a Spiers&Boden gig at the club.
So nothing at all wrong with the performance.
It was the club: the hostile, cliquey regulars, the vile floorspots, the bleedin' raffle, the horrible pub, the lack of atmosphere, the bossing around and unfunny patter from the MC . . .

Wasn't the wong night, it was the wrong club.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:03 AM

Missed by 1

Never mind

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:02 AM

700 !!!!

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:01 AM

Got one! (I hope)

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:00 AM

I think it is one of our more sucessful ideas:-) It has indeed done us a lot of good. Not 'missionary' work as it was put but in integrating the folk club regulars with the pub regulars. There was very little interaction before, just the odd chat at the bar, but we are now one whole community. Well, for a few days at least.

Funny how it started. We used to run the festival at the Lancastrian Hall, Swinton. Once nominated as the ugliest building in the country! It was a proper festival - Big concerts in the afternoon and evening. Ceilidh. Craft fair. Workshops, the lot. It only got by with funding from the council and the local Arts body (NW Arts at the time). The hall shut and we could find no other venue so we 'scaled down' and, with the landlords permission, just used the pub where we hald the folk club. We used the club room for a 'folk club' concert where regulars and residents at the club were 'showcased'. We used an upstairs room for a small concert with at least one 'national' artist.

That left us a few gaps to fill. Craft fair - Who need's 'em? Workshops? We never had more than 6 people at one anyway. Kids session? Let the parents look after their own little dears! Leaving only the singaround. I think it was the landlord himself suggested using the bar but I could be mistaken. We are also blessed with a couple of excelent performers who will sing and play (and drink as it happens!) all day and make sure there is never an embarrasing silence:-) So - off it trundled and I doubt if anyone, could now stop it!

Oh - and we don't generaly need funding any more. But if I can get it I will use it as intended - Pay for people to take music and dance onto the streets of Salford!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:50 AM

"as in the LNE visitors that I very inadvisably took to a club"

Don't beat yourself up about it.

It was just the wrong night (for them). At the LNE they saw Boca Halet or whoever and whichever band it was will be out on tour during the festival season so are unlikely to be at a local club till later in the year.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:43 AM

That one above was for the hatted Dave.

This is for Mr Polshaw:

That all-day singaround sounds like a riot and would that more were like it.
It reminds me of Dominic Behan staggering into a benefit night I was involved in at a bar in Upper Street, Islington. Dom was working his way from bar to bar (and there are many) when he walked in on Martin Carthy.

Martin just stepped aside (I think he wanted a drink anyway). Dom did one of his and the trade unionists made sure he was sent on his way to the next bar.
Ah, people's music.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:43 AM

"it is not the 'folkies' that shout them down (or kick them out in one case!)"

Aren't folkies nice people

I've thought that for a long time.

So do you use your All Day sing for missionary purposes? Fliers for the clubs,event diaries and so on.

Is there a Crusade somewhere we should be a part of?

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:35 AM

It was for you, and I also said 'de-ghettoisation'.

Bringing the music to where they are, y'know, normal venues.
They won't trot along willingly to something called a 'f*lk' club until they realise it's not (necessarily) what they thought it was.
And very often it is what they thought it was, so what's the point of semi-converting them then putting them off for ever? (as in the LNE visitors that I very inadvisably took to a club).

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:33 AM

How about a truly "open night"

As I mentioned before, at our festival the all day singaround is in the public bar. That usualy includes the festival standard artists that have popped in before or after their concert spot. We do get a few 'duffers' joining in and, oddly enough, the general public seem to have an inherant mechanism to shut them out - They don't listen to stuff they don't like. They will chat, go to the bar or whatever. Behavior that is considered rude in a folk club is a hell of wake up call for those who aren't realy good enough for Joe Public:-)

The other funny thing I noticed is that when some nutter or drunk decides that they want to play someones Gibson guitar or want to mumble out three incoherant verses of the fields of Athenry while someone else is performing, it is not the 'folkies' that shout them down (or kick them out in one case!) it is the regulars in the public bar who are enjoying the day.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:22 AM

"But NOT dumbing down."

Think you were talking to me.

If you were I say "Most decidely not" which is what I meant by "very best stuff"

Thinking more about this over the second coffee of the morning (day off slept in OK) care will be needed as to what is actually performed cos if the "recruited" turn up at the regulular venue and are presented with something totally different we would be back where we started.

Saying "this is a different as aspect of....." only works to a point!

If it is not already apparant I still am not keen on the Ballads although I accept that they are as much a part of the Tradition as the sort ofthing that I do. Fortunately I was "converted " before I was exposed to the Ballads and I was not put off.

Others will not agree with me as to content but do we agree that it should be the absolute best that you and your people are able to produce.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:11 AM

That was for Dave, not the horse.

Actually, I wish I'd been greeted with silence when I was 18. It might have made me practice more, and earlier. It isn't doing anyone (or the music) a service not to let them know when they are crap.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:06 AM

Yes.
De-ghettoisation.
But NOT dumbing down.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: stallion
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 07:02 AM

Hu, I suppose we all learn something over the years, I remember going to see Stan Hugill nearly forty years ago and thinking "I have paid all this money and the bloke can't sing", I would dearly love to go back and listen again. I have experienced apathy and encouragement over the many long years. The first time I ever sang in public wasn't on home turf, too scared, it was at a Redcar folk festival singaround, I was 18 years old and it was greeted with silence and the organiser saying "next", I was 21 before I tried it again and managed a few gigs here and there in the '70's and now I am really enjoying the singing with "the Boys". Whilst there is a place for excellence the real Joy is in the participation and the people in Redcar did me no favours in respect to confidence but made me work harder on the voice. Ah well mixed blessings. I could go on but really the message is, encourage participation and the good ones will not fall out at the first hurdle

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:51 AM

" given the public at large the notion that clubs are populated by untalented, socially challenged oddballs.
They don't go.

If the public have the above impression perhaps we should be doing something to change that impression.

So what might work?

How about a truly "open night" (the public is invited in and your residents and members perform their very best stuff - bearing in mind that you will be tending towards the jolly rather than drear)or can your musicians and dancers do something round the Bandstand in the park.(Didn't I read a thread about something in London rececenlty)
I would suggest that if something along the above lines were to occur your tame computer whiz could prepare a pretty flier.

The above is just a thought off the top of my head and someone out there may have already tried something like this.

Dunno might it work?

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:32 AM

Backwoodsperson,

Did you have to go on a course and take a diploma on how to be obtuse or does it come naturally?
I haven't a clue who you are or whether of not you are any good and so cannot make any comment on your abilities or lack of them
I don't know if I'd rush to the bar when you came on.
But I'd certainly do just that if I had the temerity to perform before I'd thoroughly learned whatever it was.
Once upon a time I thought I could but was wrong when I looked around and realised.
Now I don't.
I expect everyone else to have the same respect for the music and for a paying audience.
Not doing so has given the public at large the notion that clubs are populated by untalented, socially challenged oddballs.
They don't go.
And they're right.
Gottit?

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:34 AM

Oh Dear *sigh*! The spoiled, petulant lout's at it agin. Sticks and stones ducky, sticks and stones.............

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:01 AM

Or was I Mr McHenry?

The old erm, thingy, isn't what it used to be...

:D

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: stallion
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:48 AM

I have dipped in and out of this thread, out mainly because of the non constructive vitriol, however some good points have been made. We have healthy sessions and a very healthy folk club in York, at the York day of folk I noticed some of the youngsters that go to the tap session, just out of University (grads) and still in York, carrying mandolins and violins etc. I was surprised because I hadn't seen them at the sessions with instruments but they said they were learning together, thought I would share that with you, music is alive and well and still inspiring a younger generation, so encouragement however competent, one has to start somewhere. And, yes, one has to be sensitive to everyone attending but it also requires everyone to be a little forgiving.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:45 AM

Well I have recorded two singers with "source " material and I would never have asked them to sing anywhere.

They were old and frail and would not have stood up to singing in public. That was the major reason. They had lost their style and technique but still had the words. The corollary to what you are saying seems to indicate that if the collector is not going to bring them (live) to a wider public then they should not be recorded. I cannot believe that you think that.

Some singers - Willie Scott is one who comes to mind - can be wonderful in front of any public because they are used to singing in public (hunt suppers and shepherds' meets in his case). Others - and there are some good singers here in Sheffield - are not used to singing in public but only in private or very tiny parties - like the family. The family is how songs get passed on. So you would hesitate to take them to a wider audience. You might do it but you would seriously think about it.

Some singers are hard work to listen to for the first time. The first time I heard Joe Heaney (possibly one of the finest sean-nos singers ever recorded) he was incredibly difficult to understand and I have been there when he has been booed by an Irish audience. Gate Theatre Dublin. He was not really a stage performer (IMHO) and should not have been booked as such. Even in a folk club he was hard work to listen to at first. To our eternal shame we only ever booked him once.

In fact of course the truth is that many folk festivals (remember I think they have in part replaced folk clubs) hesitate to book traditional singers.

Sheffield will host the 4th Bradfield Traditional Music Festival August 10th 2007 – August 12th 2007. Small, intimate and the perfect platform for traditional song.

I think Jim's track record in collecting and disseminating material is there for all to see and to criticise him and Pat as Victorian gentleman (and woman) collectors is plain wrong.

But I have no doubt Jim can defend himself. I hope he does.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:36 AM

There is a lot to be said for being inclusive, Bryan (I used to be Mr Rusty when I had a Reliant 3 wheeler btw:-) ) and it is what we do at Swinton as well. On a SINGERS night anyone can get on and, like I said, we charge anything between nothing and 50p. We do encourage active participation in the raffle as well though;-) I am rarely on the door now as I am in a self imposed exile in Newcastle through the week but for the 20-odd years I did the door, MC-ing and organising I would honestly explain to any new face at the door that it was a singers night and that anything could, and often did, happen. We have had some appaling performers but conversely we have had some magnificent nights. You pays your money (not much!) and take your chance. I don't think anyone has ever been dissappointed.

On a guest night, be it a local big name, national or international artist, I would not dream of putting one of our more dire performers on. Many reasons for that but the main ones are that the big names often have their own following who have never been to Swinton before. I don't want to leave them with a bad impression. Secondly, even though we only usualy charge £3, I still believe that we need to give good value for money. If we put 2 floor singers on in each half, say 2 15 minute spots, and those floor spots are particularly bad then we are doing no favours to either the audience or the main perfomer.

Before anyone says it - Yes I know that £3 is far to little but now I am in Newcastle I cannot apply the pressure any more! It is actualy £2.50 members and £3.50 non-memebers! When it is a bigger name than usual we will sometimes charge £5 for non-members. I would prefer to charge £5 across the board and when I run my 'specials' I always leave it to the artist what to charge - It has been consistantly £6 up to now.

You have said you would put anyone on again, no matter how bad - So would I. But just when and how would you put them on? During a Martin Carthy concert with 50 paying? I don't think you would be doing the audience or the floor singer any good if you did. During a singers night where everyone is friends and will encourage others? Of course! I think all anyone contributing to this thread wants is to ensure the sucess of traditional music. Making sure that the people who want only the best get it and those who want to practise in public are allowed to is that tight rope that us organisers are, for some strange reason, willing to walk!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:13 AM

Far too many Captains on this ship.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 02:41 AM

Snal=il,
You missed my point, will reply on Wed. when I'm back home.
Cap'n
You appear to be telling the rest of us what we should be doing - thought you said that was a no-no.
Jim carroll

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: GUEST,Captain Colin.
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 09:29 PM

Eloquently put Snail. Jim can and no doubt will speak for himself but I suspect that he simply meant it could be pearls before swine.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 08:26 PM

Jim Carroll

Sorry,
Don't understand either The Snail's or the Cap'n's (nothing new there) responses to my replies - why appalled Snail? - please explain.

Jim, we all owe you an enormous debt for the work you have done as a collector so I am reluctant to say what I feel because I don't know how I can do so without being rude. I will do my best.


The Snail wrote
"Would Jim Carroll have told source singers "That's not good enough. I'm not going to record you until you've done a bit more practice."?
What a daft question; of course I wouldn't, (I was under the impression that the discussion was on clubs, not field recording - silly me!) A collector is after songs and information; style and technique are a bonus. I would hesitate to take them to a folk club if I thought their singing was not good enough and would cause them embarrassment. Anybody who has done any field recording knows that the hardest part is to persuade singers that they have anything worthwhile to offer and that by singing for you they are not going to humiliate themselves.

Half an hour later, still struggling for the right words. I'll just have to go for it.

This is the language of the Victorian and early twentieth century gentleman collectors. The words arrogant and patronising spring to mind. You speak as if the source singers were quaint rustic dimwits who wouldn't know how to behave in the genteel atmosphere of a decent, civilised folk club rather than adult human beings perfectly capable of making their own choices. And "style and technique are a bonus"? Without them and the cultural context, a song is just a collection of words. You might as well hand the lot over to Peter Piers, God help us. Why do you think you are competent to judge whether they are good enough and why do you believe that the audience of a folk club would not show proper respect for someone who chose to share their music with them? You persuaded singers that they had something worthwhile to offer by telling them that their song was wonderful but they themselves weren't fit to be taken out in public?

There. I've said it. That's why I'm appalled.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:30 PM

Captain Ginger
But I'm willing to wager that Lewes is one of those exceptions that proves the rule (in the poper sense of 'proof') that folk clubs, as a breed, are on the decline.

The trouble is that our policy of being inclusive and encouraging anyone to have a go has been held up as one of the reasons that the folk clubs are (allegedly) collapsing. I'm inclined to think it's one of the reasons we're thriving.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 06:18 PM

Look, I have been away to the Lakes for a few days, what has been going on?

Les

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:38 PM

Jim Carroll,I dont understand, why you dont understand my posts,would it be easier if I wrote in backslang,or rhyming slang.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 04:58 PM

"tell me there's no point."

Did he?

I must have missed that.

I thought he was saying "hold whatever view you want" and lets all allow each other do whatever they feel is the right thing.

Well that's what I think he means.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 04:47 PM

You think I'm being spiteful?
Actually I was addressing someone who's crawled in from the backwoods to try and tell me there's no point in upholding and defending the excellence of English music.
There is.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM

Scuse I,

It's my music and my heritage too but......

I've said all that I was going to say before.

I don't think your having a go at me but I do think you could be rather less spiteful Diane.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 04:24 PM

Tolerance?

The only sin is ignorance.
Tolerating the abuse of our musical cultural heritage is a sin.

It's my music and my heritage.
And it's fucking ill-mannered of anyone to tell me to stop bothering, stop ranting, stop caring and leave it the 'couldn't give a shit' 'good enough for f*lk' musical pariahs.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 04:06 PM

Is there any evidence that a folk club has actually collapsed? If so, was anybody injured?

I think the case may have been overstated.

Two nights ago I bought a dvd off Wizz Jones - him and Martin Carthy accompanying him. I think Wizz should give the lad the job, as he definitely shows promise.

Has anybody ever seen those two do a gig together? They really sound good. I'd risk the folk club collapsing to see that night.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:52 PM

"It's all about breeding, manners, grace and tolerance"

My mum dragged us(me and 5 younger brothers) up well - she says.

And coming from such a large family tolerance is something we had to learn as we grew up.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:42 PM

"He will respond if he wishes"

I don't wish, Dave - I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than respond to someone so desperate for, yet so undeserving of, attention.

You, on the other hand, I will be happy to correspond with any time. It's all about breeding, manners, grace and tolerance. Some have them, some don't.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:37 PM

Eeech 666

Good job I'm a David and not a Damion

:-0

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:34 PM

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six (Revelations)

You know what you just hit.
Don't you?

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM

"wish I lived in Sussex"!

I was born in London and and the best move mum and dad ever made was to move down to the seaside.

A lot of people retire down here you know - that a thought worth pursuing anybody?

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:17 PM

I too get Vic and Tina's email listing, even though I'm nowhere near Lewes, I skim through it every monh and think, "Yes, I'd like to see x/y/z; Grr, wish I lived in Sussex!"
But I'm willing to wager that Lewes is one of those exceptions that proves the rule (in the poper sense of 'proof') that folk clubs, as a breed, are on the decline.
There's nothing Jim's said all the way through with which I can argue.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:00 PM

have you come across our Diary before

Yes, thanks. I'm on Vic's email list.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:52 PM

Sorry,
Don't understand either The Snail's or the Cap'n's (nothing new there) responses to my replies - why appalled Snail? - please explain.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:52 PM

Well Diane you know the neighbouring venue and said you will be there for Chris and Bara on the 21st.

When you get to the Royal Oak make a point of picking up a copy of the free Sussex Folk Diary which gives all the details if what is happening down here.Or have you come across our Diary before (Surrey has something very similar BTW)

If you find that someone you want to see is coming to the Lewes Arms try us out and see what you think of us.

Bryan,Valmai and I have made our case as best we can and from hereon in it looks like "suck it and see" is the way forward.

Just so you know, we are in the upstairs room of an old traditional pub that makes a point of no telly, no juke box, no mobiles,no pool table.

Its not a large room 40 people will fill it (and Fire Regs have things to say about room capacity too). It is an "interesting" shaped room sort of L shaped with a pointy bit on the long leg if that makes sense.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:41 PM

Diane
Its only my health and family issues that stop me carrying on.
It can keep going if somebody else has the passion that I have in promoting live music.
Les

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:37 PM

I assume based on past comments that you are referring to Lincolnshire

Mmmmm, dunno, Is that where the backwoodsperson lives?
Whatever. I was expressing an interest in where the resurgence of interest in English music was happening, not in where it is being held back.

As for your venue, Les, although your booking policy is probably not entirely to my taste and some of your clientele are certainly not, it is nevertheless a shame that any live venue cannot keep going.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:28 PM

Dave
>>Dunno which Dave you are addressing but this one is sorry to hear that your venue is to close.
<<
It was you.
I just find it incredible that even breaking the job down into smaller parts, nobody offers to takeover.
Thanks for your nice comments.

Diane
>>And it's happening, though obviously not yet in 'backwoodsland'.
<<
I assume based on past comments that you are referring to Lincolnshire. If so, one of the problems that Lincolnshire suffers from is density of population, and we have to travel a lot of miles to support our live venues. Its not the cost of paying to get in up here, its the cost of petrol on very low wages, or as in many cases, no work.

Les

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:27 PM

if what you want is not what we are providing . . .

But it IS, (sort of, roughly).
I was referring to the 'backroom, cliquey dumps with ever-so-safe and dull booking policies' where blokes-in-the-corner bore and annoy. Which, as you assure me and I believe you, doesn't happen at your venue and certainly doesn't at that of your nearest neighbour.

The backwoodsperson is telling me to stop ranting and let those damaging English music get on with it. I'm saying I bloody well won't.

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:15 PM

"But a pathetic wailing of 'live and let live' from the backwoods (or the rundown backroom of a city pub) isn't going to silence me"

Why pathetic ? The man ,as far as I can see,is willing for you to hold whatever veiew you wish and do whatever it is you wish to change things.

He will respond if he wishes I will just say that all the things you are concerned about do not apply to my part of the world and we are as committed to the Traditional music and song as anyone else (and arguably more than some others)

Things are fine down here in Sussex if what you want is not what we are providing I'm sorry.

What we do works for us and the people who come to our club(s)and festivals

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:01 PM

If you don't go to them, Diane, why SHOULD you care?

Obviously I've been or how would I know?
I care because such a poor image reflects badly on the tradarts.
It's little wonder that the public perception of trad music and dance in England is a sad joke 'normal' people snigger at.
Sub-standard, unrehearsed performance in public, that 'good enough for f*lk' attitude, is something I've encountered in no other country and it is long overdue that English people are educated into valuing their own cultural heritage.
And it's happening, though obviously not yet in 'backwoodsland'.
Not that such a neo-revival is entirely as a result of my ranting, oh no.
But a pathetic wailing of 'live and let live' from the backwoods (or the rundown backroom of a city pub) isn't going to silence me.
But if you don't care about excellence in English music and dance, just what are you doing here?

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Dave Earl
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 01:50 PM

Les,
Dunno which Dave you are addressing but this one is sorry to hear that your venue is to close.

As you will know what a successful club needs is a committed team to do all the jobs that need doing and if no volunteers are forthcoming there is nothing that can be done.

Dave

Subject: RE: Collapse of the Folk Clubs
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 01:32 PM

Dave
At the end of the day, its up to everybody that lifts their fingers to put on live music, to do what they think is best.
If what they do is successfull, people keep on coming back.
People who moan about what a venue puts on, should get off their arses and do something themselves and prove others wrong.
I certainly do not regret the way I run my venue and there are a good number of people that come along each time.
I will be stopping at the end of the year, due to personal reasons, but I am unlikely to get anybody to takeover. That is very sad, as the area in question has never had anything like my venue before, and appear to be sorry that it might fold, but alas, nobody who has the balls to get up there and do it.
I have thoroughly enjoyed my part in making music live happen. If it doesn't continue, it won't be for the lack of listener support, more the lack of somebody prepared to do something for their community.
Les