BS: Kucinich dropping out of race

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:53 AM

Delusional case in point #1. WTF sort of Demnifying rabblebabble is that?

I believe Amos is on the Obamarama Bus.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:31 AM

Oh -- I'm sorry. I thought you had transcended ad hominem argumentation, but it appears your rationality is only skin deep. Shame.

Well, thanks for sending that in, and 'bye for now.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:50 AM

Read it and weep.

The only thing that matters right now to corporate masters is that conventional MSM wisdom win, and they will stop at nothing to insure that happens.

Who will be the next president of the United Snookering of America?

Whichever sock puppet comes off best on late night.

That has to be McCain, beloved by both Comedy Central AND Worldwide Pants (even though Hil is their home girl).

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:16 PM

Sorry to be so dense, GG...but what the hell is MSM? Oh, wait....is it "MainStream Media"?

If so, I would have to agree pretty much with what you're saying. It's the perfected Orwellian thought-control machine of corporate America. Control the public airwaves, and you control everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

The day a CBS PR blurb makes me weep, I'll turn in my Mudcat password.

Tell ya what, Purveyor of Doom and Catastrophe.

Crawl into a snowbank and pull it in after you.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:27 PM

Hmmm. I guess I don't know what MSM is, either. Acronyms and and abbreviations can make me feel so left behind. How does everybody understand them, and not me? I think I have a deep resentment of those who speak in abbreviations and acronyms - goes back to my Army days, I guess.

Anyhow, I guess I don't see things as so bleak. It appears to me that the frontrunners are Clinton, Obama, McCain, and Giuliani (although Huckleberry and Romney don't seem completely dead yet). Of the first four on the list, I think they're all decent people whose priority would be to serve the nation - and I don't think any of them are particularly beholden to corporate interests (other than the fact that sometimes corporate interests can be good for the general welfare). Huckabee and Romney scare me a bit for religious reasons, I suppose - but they do seem to be good men.

So, that's a list of six people (and Edwards is fine too although I don't think he has a chance). Of those six, none of them shows the cynicism and self-interest that was always so predominant in the Bush Administration. So, I'd say that's a major step forward. Bush has been vanquished and will leave office with no glory, and the next one in charge will be worlds better than Bush.

So, I'm happy.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:32 PM

Yes, MSM = mainstream media.

And once they get the new FISA Act enshrined (Democrats capitulated in order to "appear" strong on national security AGAIN) this Monday-- thanks so much Senator Reid--with the retroactive immunity for the telecomms, they will be poised to push through the most important legislation in political freedom worldwide in 150 years--the freedom to spy on the Internet. On anybody. For any reason. With absolutely no oversight by anyone, save the executive branch and the spy agencies, who will be the only ones allowed to see the FISA case histories.

Once the lock up control of the internet, the fat ladies will be singing from the mountaintops.

And there ain't even gonna be a whimper from the American public--who are now the world's Public Enemy #1. We all live in the world of haves and have nots, ruled by the we don't give a shits.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:51 PM

GUEST,GUEST, is there anyone on earth today whom you feel would be a good president? (As the presidency now is, although I'm of the opinion that the presidency should be bumped down a few notches myself.)

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 01:02 PM

The powers of the US president should be more limited than they presently are. It is like an imperial presidency as it now exists.

The president should not have the power to veto any legislation passed by both houses of Congress, and he should not have the power to take the country to war without a formal declaration of war passed by both houses of Congress. Nor should he be termed the "commander-in-chief". I don't think that is an appropriate title for any leader who is not either a military dictator or a king. The army serves the NATION as a whole, not the nation's chief executive. The armed forces are not his private army. He doesn't own them. If he commits treasonable and unconstitutional acts, then it is the army's duty to arrest him on behalf of the nation whom they are sworn to serve.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 01:07 PM

I might add, of course, that the present US constitution would have to be amended for the president's powers to be limited as I have suggested...as regards the veto on Congressional legislation.

Other than that, I think that Bush and Cheney have already violated the US Constitution on a number of occasions (as have some other presidents)....but the public will not take much notice of that unless the mainstream media choose to tell them about it loudly and repeatedly....and that is clearly not going to happen.

The MSM control the public perception by means of what stories they decide to cover, and what emphasis and tone they give to those stories.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:16 PM

No, CarolC, I don't believe in the people running or the process anymore. So why would I continue to vote? That would be hypocrisy.

I'm done, done, and done with the US electoral system, because voting doesn't change it, make the political system or our lives under it more just or fair or "better" especially for those who are truly suffering. So why give all the time, energy, resources and money to it?

It won't stop the human suffering and enviromental toll of our wars.

It won't stop the corporate masters from doing anything because they have everybody in their pocket and have changed all the laws to put them beyond reach of the laws of this land or any other.

The US political system is broken beyond repair, IMO. Now, lots of folks will continue to vote, and participate in the mass delusion that voting matters. But they can't ever quite explain HOW it matters.

Can you?

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:44 PM

So, Guest, Guest, your master plan is?

Or does it involve something I dare not post here because of FISA?

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:50 PM

I understand what you're saying, GUEST,GUEST, but I think the question I am asking is somewhat different than the one you seem to be answering.

I'm curious to know if there is any human being on the planet whom you think would do a good job as president once in office (all of the bullshit associated with the elections process notwithstanding). I totally agree with you about the process, I'm just wondering what sort of person (if any) you think would make a good president. Or perhaps, like me, you believe that the job description for our presidents needs to undergo some major revisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:57 PM

Carol, really, my answer is NO, unequivocally. Why? Because the system itself is corrupted, and IMO, can't be fixed by voting.

Richard, I'm only a level 9, and so can't be in charge of Master Plans.

Seriously, my plan is to view the whole thing as entertainment on the same level as American Idol. Beyond that, I'm going to keep on keepin' on, knowing that my lifelong dedication to working for progressive change is in no way changed or diminished by my decision not to participate anymore.

But I would be lying if I said I wasn't going to vote at all. My Grand Master Plan is to vote, but only for Al Franken, and no one else. Because what we are all gonna need for the next four years is some comic relief.

And maybe writing in Wavy Gravy for prez.

If I get around to getting to the polls.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:24 PM

OK, GG, here is where we part. There is a basic contradiction in your plan. On one hand, understandably to me, you are completely unbelieving in the political system. I understand that. You indicate that you are done with the political system, yet you will continue to work for social change. I don't see how one can work for social change without working with folks in a political way. I need you to enunciate, without all the dance, how you will effect social change without participating with folks in the grand social experiment. You are very good, in fact brilliant IMO, in enunciating what is wrong with the system. But when it comes to concrete facts about how you will effect change, you go completely vague. You also assert, on many occasions, that you are a lifelong activist for social change. Can you give us a summary of the pro active things you have done? I am being honest when I tell you that you seem well read, and long on analysis, but I truly wonder how that has been put into action.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM

I'm unbelieving after decades of direct, personal experience working within the political system, don't forget.

I'm sorry your worldview is so small you can't grasp how people make a choice to work for change and don't work within the existing political system. But millions of people all over the world do it on a daily basis. Just think of all the women who don't have the ability to vote in the world, for starters. Are you suggesting they have no meaningful effect on the world around them, just because men don't allow them to vote?

Talk about cynical.

PS. I don't have to enunciate a thing. I'm just done with the electoral system. Does it mean I'm burning my drivers license? No. I'm just not going to vote. I will continue to have opinions, even about the horse race. But I'm still not going to play the game. I'm not going to contribute money, time, trees or bandwidth to candidates and politicians. I'm not going to sign petitions.

I'm not going to say I have answers to what ails the thing, when I don't have any.

Revolution? Not in fashion yet. Exile? Yup, probably. As soon as the babies finish college, in all likelihood.

Anything else? Oh. Proactive things I've done.

Well, I brushed my teeth this morning. Went to work at a job I think makes a difference to the kids in the school where I work. No one has to agree with my assessment, of course. But it gives meaning to my life and theirs that I can share what I know, give what I have to give.

I do a lot of stuff with non-profits. Most lately with mentoring young feminist artists in our cooperative and this year, it hopefully looks like my partner & I will be working with these folks. We are trying to set up a Sri Lankan grad student going to school here with cameras to go back to Sri Lanka and start filming a documentary on the child sex trade there.

I'm very focused on the arts, in other words, which I believe is quite a bit more powerful when it comes to winning hearts and minds than conventional electoral politics.

Anyway, that's about all I'm doing for now. Pretty much same as a lot of artists I know are doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:49 PM

I understand, GUEST,GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:59 PM

Yeah, CarolC I wasn't too worried about you getting it! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:59 PM

Here's Dennis' blog post addressing his withdrawal from the presidential race, and his hope that the movement he sees forming around the work he and his supporters have been doing will continue (and a link for anyone who would like to be a part of this work)...

Dennis' Blog

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:11 PM

And here is YouTube's "Best of" on him. Some rare, priceless stuff. His voice being silenced isn't good news, that's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:18 PM

GUEST, GUEST - I understand your postion perfectly, and I empathize with it. Every human being can work to change the world in positive ways by their daily conduct in regards TO the world and to other human beings. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will choose to participate in the USA's electoral and campaign system, needless to say... ;-)

I still vote in Canadian elections. Do I think it will make a difference? No, frankly, I don't. Do I think the politicians will follow through on their promises...assuming the ones I voted for even win? No, frankly, I don't. ;-) I just do it for the heck of it, anyway, because it's a rare event, and because if I do then some smartass can't tell me I have no right to have an opinion on anything because I didn't vote... But as it stands...the elections are a joke, and a lot of the people here are well aware of that. Some of them vote anyway, like me, just for the hell of it...and some of them don't. Either way is okay with me.

I'm a lot more concerned about how people act in general for the other 365 days out of their year than I am whether they went and voted on election day.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: DougR
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:44 PM

I don't agree with Dennis Kucinich on a single political point but I admired the way he steadfastly promoted his point of view. I think the Democrat Party treated him shabbily and would not be surprised to see him make himself available to run on a third party ticket. I don't think he has a prayer of winning, but a liberal third party couldn't do better were it to pick him as it's standard bearer.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:58 PM

That, of course, would elect another Republican--shades of 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:03 PM

"shabbily" is putting it mildly, Doug.

The problem with launching any 3rd party in the USA that takes a liberal/progressive position is...it simply will guarantee a win for its diametrical opposite...in the form of the Republican Party and the neocon agenda...because it will take a chunk of votes from the Democrats.

Therefore, it is unfortunately a self-defeating idea at the present time. (That's why you like it. It would kill any chance the Democrats have.)

In the same fashion...if Huckabee, say, were to launch a 3rd party to represent the aspirations of Evangelicals....it could only result in taking away enough votes from the Republicans to guarantee a Democratic win.

3rd parties simply can't work in your present political system. They inevitably end up achieving the exact opposite of what they set out to achieve. They benefit those to whom they are most opposed.

Only if a majority of Americans totally lose faith in and abandon BOTH the Democrats AND the Republicans...and at the same time...only then will it become possible to genuinely change your system as it now exists.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:11 PM

Well, yes, the system is broken becuase the power is not in the hands "of the people" or it's use "for the people"...

A large problem is in that TJ and the Boyz invisioned an indormed electorate which we have really never had and that has bogged US down witha system of governemnt that TJ and the Boyz thought would have evolved with an informed electorate... That is the problem... Democracy, as invisioned, is DOA... Been dead for a long, long time...

And the folks who need to have power taken away are the same people who would have to consent to hacve it taken away???

This is why GUEST, GUEST has every right to quit playing... It's hard to play once you understand that there is no chance to win one now and then...

I'm kinda down to my last election, too... As I have stated on another thread I will work for Obama if he gets the nomination ***only***-- and this is a major crapshoot-- because seein' as we aren't too sure where he comes down on reshuffling the democracy deck, he might be a Trojan Horse... Like a gambler, I'm willing to the throw the dice one more time...

Our problems are well beyond policy positions and compromises between conservative and less conservative law makers... What we need to do is fix our democracy...

TJ and the Boyz wrote the Contitution to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority... They probably never invisioned that the majority would one day be held captive by the minority but that is exactly what has occured... The South and Midwest have less that 30% of the poipulation yet they have well over half the power in the Senate...

Actaully, what we have is 18% of the population controlling 51% of the Senate and when one factors in that it takes 60 votes to end a fillibuster when numbers get even more ubsurd with 11% of the population controlling the Senate!?!?!?...

What we have is tyranny by the minority over the majority and that is why nuthing gets done that makes any sense in Washington, D.C....

Unless this problem gets fixed our country will continue down that slippery slope toward eventual ruin and chaos...

The opnly way to fix this problem is for a Trjan Horse to sneak into the White House and use the existing tools that Karl Rove and Bush will be leaving and every bit of salemanship to get those 11% to understand that with them calling the shots, things ain't working...

Yeah, it is the longest of the long shots... I freely admit it... I don't see any other path...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:23 PM

The answer is simple. Kucinich should run as a Conservative Independent.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:32 PM

So, the Sour Cynics Club is now in session. I wonder who the president of the club is this time--sounds like a tough race between Rig and Guest-Guest (like John-John?)

So nothing has ever been accomplished by politics? Interesting. Nothing--like Social Security, woman's suffrage, labor laws, etc. No doubt about it--all the people who voted for such things would have been better off staying at home. After all, that's The Mudcat Way---or so it seems, with few exceptions--like Joe, Big Mick, and a few others.

An arch, knowing, self -pity is so much more rewarding than actually trying to change anything through politics.

And for those who want universal healthcare on a silver platter: Hillary wants to "require" everybody to buy it. Good luck. How will this be enforced? Obama at least realizes there will be people who refuse it---just as there are in Massachusetts, which supposedly has it.

Much as Mudcatters may not want to admit it, politics is in fact the art of the possible. Universal healthcare, like many of the other advances will be a process--nobody will wave a magic wand for it.

But after all, it's just The $ystem or Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Obviously there's no point to voting.

It's just too bad those on the Right don't share this conviction of the Left.

And you can bet Hillary will unify the squabbling Republicans like nothing else could. While Obama will get far more independents--and Republicans--in addition to Democrats.

But politics is so dirty--we can't soil our hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:41 PM

And for those who want universal healthcare on a silver platter: Hillary wants to "require" everybody to buy it. Good luck. How will this be enforced? Obama at least realizes there will be people who refuse it---just as there are in Massachusetts, which supposedly has it.

This is the flaw in his proposal. (I agree that forcing people to buy insurance is the flaw in Clinton and Edwards' proposals.) Obama is saying that economy of scale is going to bring insurance prices down low enough for everyone to be able to afford it. But how can he do that if he can't guarantee that enough people will buy it to have enough economy of scale to do what he says he wants it to do? The answer is that he can't. But perhaps he doesn't really intend to.

LH is right about your tone, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:47 PM

"art of the possible",....... "a process"

Cynics have no leg to stand on in complaining about "tone".   Not you, Carol--but there are plenty on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:00 AM

We've been through the cynic thing before, Ron. It's you who is the cynic. Kucinich represents the art of the possible more than any of the Democrats who ran for office in this primary. You are supporting someone who says he'll deliver something even he knows he can't deliver. Now that's cynicism.

But the tone I'm talking about is your habitual sneer.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:04 AM

Oops. I see that you are not accusing me of being a cynic. My mistake. Still, I agree with LH about the tone.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:38 AM

Yes, it is precisely the habitual sneer that is the problem. That is it in a nutshell. It's amazing how venomous some people get when political discussions are happening.

Politics is indeed the field of the "possible".

It has proven possible in most western democracies to provide a universal publicly funded health care system, but a majority of people in a society have to realize it's possible. They can't do that if the mainstream politicians won't tell them. Only Kucinich dared to tell them.

Now, here is a brief history of Canada's health care system:

********************

A Brief History of Canada's
Health Care System

1947 -- The Saskatchewan Government, led by leader Tommy Douglas, introduces the first provincial
hospital insurance program In Canada.

1957 -- Paul Martin Sr. introduces a national hospital insurance program. Doctors, insurance companies
and big business fight against it.

1960 -- The Canadian Medical Association opposes all publicly funded health care.

1962 -- Saskatchewan's NDP government introduces the first public health care program. Doctors walk
out but the strike collapses after 3 weeks.

1965 -- A Royal Commission headed by Emmett Hall calls for a universal and comprehensive national
health insurance program.

1966 -- Parliament creates a national Medicare program with Ottawa paying 50% of provincial health
costs.

1977 -- Trudeau Liberals retreat from 50:50 cost-sharing and replace it with block funding.

1978 -- Doctors begin "extra-billing" to raise their incomes.

1979 -- Canadian Labour Congress convenes the SOS Medicare conference to fight extra-billing and
joins with community groups to form the Canadian Health Coalition.

1984 -- Canada Health Act is passed unanimously by parliament. Extra-billing is banned.

1993 -- Mulroney government grants 20-year patent protection to brand name drugs.

1995 -- Paul Martin Jr. introduces Canada Health and Social Transfer (CHST), causing massive cuts in
transfer payments to health and social programs.

1997 -- National Forum on Health calls for Medicare to be expanded to include home care, pharmacare
and a phasing out of fee-for-service for doctors.

1998 -- Premiers demand say in interpreting the Canada Health Act. Chrétien caves in.

2000 -- Ralph Klein introduces legislation to allow private hospitals.

2000 -- Federal Budget offers 2 cents for health care for every dollar of tax cuts, ignoring pleas of
Canadians to save Medicare.

2002 -- The Romanow Royal Commission on the Future of Health Care in
Canada conducted cross-country public hearings. Final report was
tabled in Ottawa on November 28, 2002.

2003 -- First Ministers' meeting results in a new 'Health Accord.' Targeted
funding in keys areas (as prescribed by the Romanow report) shows
promise. However, there are no accountability mechanisms and no
restrictions on public funding being spent on for-profit health care.

******

Note that: It was Tommy Douglas and the NDP, the socialists, who first brought in publicly funded health care in 1962 in the province of Saskatchewan! It took a socialist politician to do it. You don't have socialist politicians in the USA. Without socialist politicians to lead the way, I doubt it would ever have happened in Canada. "Socialist" is not a dirty word in Canada or Europe.

Note that: the forces in Canada which fought tooth and nail to prevent our publicly funded health care system from every coming about were..."Doctors, the insurance companies, and big business" and "the Canadian Medical Association"!

Wow. What a surprise, eh? Their main concern is making a LOT of money, and they obviously don't give a shit if people die or go bankrupt because they can't afford to pay for private health care. Talk about turning the Hyppocratic Oath on its head!

Since about the end of the Reagan era there have been increasing attempts by conservative politicians in Canada to dismantle and chip away at our health care system....why? So their rich pals in the private sector who fund their election campaigns can get even richer. The public has massively opposed any and all such attacks on our health care system...but big business is drooling at the possibilities. As always. They would see you air and sunlight too...at a hefty price...if they could figure out how to round it all up and control it.

Those too poor to buy it could just stop breathing...

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 01:56 AM

Here's video and text of Dennis' announcement...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tApDGClSSI


http://www.dennis4president.com/go/homepage-items/kucinich-withdraws-from-presidential-race/

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 07:19 PM

"contempt" for Obama. "Don't listen to the compromisers". And this is about Democrats. Ake may have an excuse--he doesn't have to live with the consequences."

A low blow Ron, from one who seems to have no problem living with the consequences of American Capitalist domestic and foreign policy.
In fact Ron, you are becoming a cheerleader for the system which gave us ...half a million dead Iraqi men, women and children. Who knows how many mutilated "walking wounded".
US and UK troops..... dead blind or limbless.
On the domestic front, a system which refuses its people basic free heathcare.
A system which denies its people a realistic minimum wage.

Just like the Dems who said they opposed the war then voted to fund it, you support a political system which heaps horror on horror, injustice on injustice.

I repeat, nothing has ever been achieved by the political process alone. Politics is a mechanism to resist change.


All the real changes have been brought about by "people power", People telling this one party nation that they will accept the lies no longer....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 08:16 AM

"Politics is a mechanism to resist change". Take a look at South Carolina, Ake. Seems to me change is happening. And you have to seize your opportunities when you have them.

Hope your cynicism is not so deep that you can't see this.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 08:39 AM

Obviously Jesse Jackson also won the South Carolina primary. But there are major differences between Jackson's candidacy and that of Obama--which I detail in the Democratic primary thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 09:18 AM

What do you write? How about 'get out of there, it could be dangerous'?

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:08 AM

"'get out of there, it could be dangerous'"



                         Good idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:17 AM

Anything to discourage Obama and his supporters, eh Rig? Sounds like a bit of desperation on your part. And perhaps not that much genuine concern. But of course I could be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:19 AM

"But of course I could be wrong."


       NAW!

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:34 AM

Rig--

It's just that your concern for his safety is not totally convincing. Whereas your opposition to him is quite convincing.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 12:23 PM

Carol, I'm with you on this. To hell with the Three Stooges.

Dennis is the only voice in the wilderness. He needs to hang on to his seat in Cleveland.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:14 PM

There wasn't much of anything else he could have done. His Democratic opponents--you've got to wonder who they're working for--were using his run for the White House against him. If he doesn't retain his Congressional seat, nobody will be in a position to speak out for the American people.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:21 PM

Well, that isn't exactly true. There is still Russ Feingold and his merry band of Progressive Patriots.

But it's true, very few in Congress look, sound, and walk like progressives besides the two of them, and neither of them get much coverage these days. Feingold more than Kucinich, except when Dennis is running for president.

Sure hope he gets re-elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 09:26 PM

Frank, here's an updated blog post from Dennis. It's got the link to the 'Integrity Now' website (which only has a form for joining so far), and also the Integrity Now Yahoo Groups listserve page. If you want to be involved in the work that will go forward around the work that Dennis has started, you might want to join up with one or both of these sites...

Dennis' Blog

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 12:21 PM

Will do Carol. Thanks.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 12:45 PM

Here's the latest news from Dennis Kucinich:

*************************

Corporate media strategy: silence Kucinich,
then remove him from office

Over the past several weeks, the alphabets of corporate media dug their heels in the court system and in the federal agency established to protect and advocate fairness on the public airwaves (FCC), to keep Dennis Kucinich from bringing his ideas – your ideas – to the Democratic Presidential debates: ABC ... NBC ... GE ... MSNBC ... CNN.

On Sunday, another major media corporation, The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer newspaper, followed the lead established by the national media, and demanded that Dennis Kucinich should be removed from his office as Congressman in the 10th District of Ohio. Why? "his defiance" of Congressional go-along, get-along policies.

It's time fight back against the powers that are trying to steal your power as citizens of the United States of America.
http://kucinich.us/contribute.html

So far, the corporate media have succeeded in setting the agenda. They have argued, for their own profit-driven and self-serving interests, that private corporations are exempt by the First Amendment from providing full and fair and non-pre-selected information to you, the people -- even though freedom of speech is your right under the U.S. Constitution.

They have manipulated the political and judicial process to ensure that private media corporations will decide what you can hear, what you can see, what you can read, and what you are allowed to know.

But, when media influence over news and information becomes media control of our government, it's time to rise up in protest in defense of ourselves.
http://kucinich.us/contribute.html

Please, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqMYxKkOz8k

Let your family and friends know that it was not enough to keep Congressman Kucinich out of the Presidential debates. Now, they want to remove him from the U.S. Congress.

The only way to fight back is to contribute to his re-election campaign so he can continue to represent you: ending the war in Iraq and bringing those trillions of dollars back home; a national health care system for all Americans, an end to NAFTA and other trade agreements that have outsourced millions of American jobs; restoration of our civil liberties; an environmental program that will ensure our energy independence and create untold new jobs.

Don't let the corporate media take everything away from you. Help re-elect Congressman Dennis Kucinich. The strongest and truest voice you have is the one they are trying the hardest to silence: Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich.

Thank you,
The Kucinich for Congress Campaign


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It's incredible the lengths that these people in the corporatocracy are going to to put Dennis Kucinich out of business. It's like a herd of elephants getting together to annihilate a single mouse. How can they be this afraid of one solitary Congressman who speaks out against the $ySStem? Is he really such a profound threat to all that entrenched power in Washington? Or is it just the complete arrogance of people who are so used to getting their own way that, like a Mafia boss in a big city, they will simply not tolerate anyone on their turf who doesn't cooperate 100%?

I suspect it's the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 11:33 PM

I think it's a little (or maybe a lot) of both, LH.

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 03:21 AM

link to offending article

Subject: RE: BS: Kucinich dropping out of race
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 03:21 AM

Oh, and 100