What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:54 AM

You can't separate Rap from it's source, the violent and degenerate Rap Culture. It is the voice of that group.

To attempt such an intellectual discussion about something that is viceral sounds like the pervue of pointy-headed pseudo-intellectuals.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:48 AM

I'm not defending content of rap, and this discussion was never about "why rap sucks". There is a huge difference and you fail to see it.   

This conversation was not about white guilt, but bigotry seems to have raised its head once again. Now you tell me about what is "off topic".

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,D18/J45
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:45 AM

Ron said: "It is very disturbing to read comments about a "war" that is going on, and "what side are you on". Wars are created by narrow minded bigots with huge egos mixed with a huge insecurity issue. If you wish to create a war, you will. Hopefully the rest of us have moved to a different view of the world and ourselves."

Man, talk about off topic. This is a discussion about why rap sucks or in the case of the tone deaf, musically defend everything, white guilt group who think it doesn't. Not about your holier than thou politics.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,woodsie
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:42 AM

It's what it says: Rhythm And Poetry. It's nothing new! Zappa did it on his first album. The Fugs did it, Pigmeat (?he sang "here come the judge")

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:38 AM

PDQ - you can speak out whenever you like, but if you feel that your statements should not receive a rebuttal, then I suggest you re-read the Constitution.   

I will attack bigotry and unlike you, I will not put words in mouths of others. Your statements speak for themselves, as do mine.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:29 AM

Anybody else want to take cheap shots at me besides Ronbo?

Go ahead, but that does not change the fact that most urban areas of the US are so polluted with this vlie noise that the quality of life is down.

I represent the majority view on many subjects, many of which are seldom heard on this forum

Out here is rural America, we are making a stand against this type of sonic bullying and aggression. I got one neighbor to sell his house and move because the cops showed up so often, telling him to turn down his (c)rap noise. Other neighbors all said they could hardly believe how mush happier they were and how much better they felt without the awful background hate noise.

I stand by what I say. I have endured this abuse in various place I have lived, and I will speak out whenever I want about. People who don't like what I have to say can ignore me. Be my guest. But gutless personal attacks on me by insecure people serve no purpose.

We have a cultural divide that is being turned into chasm by the Rap Culture. I had nothing to do with it.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:14 AM

PDQ--do you know, or care anything about music? This is a music thread, not a BS thread, and you seem to be making it your business to derail any discussion of music here.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:07 AM

Keep going PDQ, you are showing everyone just how ridiculous your thought process works when you make statements like that.

---

OK, stop it - both of you.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:03 AM

Ronbo:

I hope you have to live next to a house full of Rap Culture goons where you can't get away. Enjoy "die Honkey Mutha Fukkuh!!!" blasted at you 'till 3:00 in the morning so you can't sleep. Enjoy.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 10:02 AM

Several people have said that RAP is not music. I had a music theory professor with a PhD who defined music as simply: noise within structure. Rap may well be non-melodic. Much of the Avant-garde music of the 20th century, Schoenberg, Glass etc., isn't very melodic, but is generally considered to be music. You can hate it if you want. I hate most of what comes out of Nashville these days but I wouldn't say "That's not music".

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

You are an ass PDQ.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:54 AM

Ron Olesko seems to support the right of a mugger to assault people and he blames the victim for fighting back.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 09:36 AM

"How do you relate to this offensive, non-melodic noise?"

I would imagine that you do understand there is a difference between music appreciation and music for enjoyment.

I relate to rap in the same way as I relate to folk music from other cultures that I am not part of. I've heard a few rap songs that I thought were interesting, and a few with powerful lyrics, but on a whole it is not something I would spend time listening to.

It is very disturbing to read comments about a "war" that is going on, and "what side are you on". Wars are created by narrow minded bigots with huge egos mixed with a huge insecurity issue. If you wish to create a war, you will. Hopefully the rest of us have moved to a different view of the world and ourselves.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 08:36 AM

The roots of rap & hip-hop go back across the uncounted millennia to the sacred chants of the Sun Priests of Ancient Egypt. Proof? Check this: Sun Ra - Nuclear War

What yo gonna do without your ass?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Acorn4
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:58 AM

I haven't really listened to enough rap to comment, but agree with the posters who say you can't just dismiss a whole genre. More poetry than music surely, and as such just as acceptable as limerick, sonnet, heroic couplets?

Rap does seem to have a lot of human input, whereas most hip-hop/rave I've heard would come seem to come under the genre of "twitch music". But there again, I suppose I might someday hear something to convince me otherwise

Do like oxymorons however:-

How about these:-

Independant financial adviser.
The quiet area of the campsite.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:23 AM

Is this a discussion about music or in-car entertainment systems? Hell, we were once told to turn down our car stereo when we were paying Jez Lowe's Jack Common's Anthem (thanks Helen!xx). I don't suppose it really matters what sort of music you're playing in your car, or at home, or wherever, just as long as it isn't playing too loud... I have a similar objection to folkies with PA systems, but that's another story, albeit similar!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 07:14 AM

"...the rap music from the car in the yard next door was so loud, that I couldn't hear anything but the music. I was surprised at how vulnerable the music-deafness made me feel.
-Joe- "

Yes, and it seems that the PC opinion is that it is part of their civil rights to inflict this noise on others. My contention is that the average citizen has the right to peace and quiet. We have a civil war going on and many people are on the wrong side.

M. Ted: I stopped paying attention to your outbursts a long time ago. You have problems, not me.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 06:25 AM

Rap is surely a great deal more "folk" than the tricksy educated musicians attempts to rearrange folk tunes for the concert-goers ears, over the last century or so.
The origins of rap and hip-hop can be easily and directly traced to the Bahaman traditions of maritime music(and many other similar related traditions). The blend of fast witty sarcastic rhythmic talking with powerful dance rhythms and slow melodic lines is a well established area of Afro-Caribbean culture, with deep folk roots going back a long long time. A basic background would be easily acquired by listening to the CD "Rhyming Singers of the Bahamas" for example, or many other Caribbean field recordings. I am exploring these historical connections (between dance tunes, sea song and witty rapping) in ongoing projects in Liverpool at this moment. At the very least, it is adding the distinctive "voice" of urban youth to the folk scene: which is, let's face it, becoming increasingly dominated by a very educated and university-based middle-class aproach.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 05:16 AM

A Few Feel-Good Folk-Friendly Hip-Hop Classics on You Tube:

De La Soul - Eye Know (1989)

Digable Planets - Rebirth of the Slick (1993)

Arrested Development - Mr Wendal (1993)

Jungle Brothers - Straight out the Jungle (1988)

Eminem & Proof - Freestyle (?)

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 04:28 AM

Anyone ever heard Mr Fox's 'Aunt Lucy Broadwood' - Now there IS a folk rap! I must say that I don't like a lot of the rap I hear but occasionaly there is some that takes my fancy - Emenem (sp?) is one guy who definitely has something going and there are one or two others but, to my shame, I never know who they are!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 04:19 AM

Thank you for your kind words, Ron!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 01:38 AM

I work in a tough part of town. I usually have no problems, but I like to be on my gueard and able to hear what's happening around me. This afternoon, the rap music from the car in the yard next door was so loud, that I couldn't hear anything but the music. I was surprised at how vulnerable the music-deafness made me feel.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Jul 08 - 12:38 AM

If you don't think it's musical, that says more about   your musical taste than it does about rap--Your may respond to, say, Bill Monroe, or Gordon Lightfoot, instead, and nothing wrong with either of them, but there are a fair number who claim that neither one are real music, let alone folk music. I've certainly heard it said--and it really means that whoever says it just doesn't like them.

There are lots of different kinds of folk and traditional music in the World, and many many, many of them feature drumming and chanting--which is probably why Rap/Hip Hop have been embraced all over the world.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,D18/J45
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 11:31 PM

You guys can defend rap all you want, but it is so non-musical. How do you relate to this offensive, non-melodic noise? It can't just be white guilt!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 11:01 PM

"That's one of the problems of assuming "folk" is an - albeit contentious - genre rather than a description of a supposedly universal human process regardless of content."

Spleen Cringe - thank you for that brilliant sentence.   I have been trying to get that point across in several conversations that I've had - here on Mudcat and elsewhere but could never come up with the right words. Your eloquent statement says it all.

I'm afraid that there are too many people who have created a stereotype of what folk music should sound like. If it doesn't remind them of the teenage girl with long black hair strumming a guitar or the bearded gent with a finger in his ear that they heard 50 years ago, it can't possibly be considered folk and those of us who attempt to look at modern communities for "contemporary" folk music are just out of our minds or know nothing.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:50 PM

"It was origionally used by Black street gangs in South Bronx to stake out their territories"

Please tell me you are joking. I can't believe anyone would believe such nonsense.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:38 PM

You, PDQ, are a form of violence aimed at people. Are you really as ignorant and hate filled as you come across here, day after day, month after month, year after year, or are you just a terrible writer?

---

Getting a little personal in our remarks, aren't we?
Cut it out.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:21 AM

If you want to listen to this anti-social (c)rap, put on earphones!

Don't blast it in my face at 120 dB from 18" speakers in your car.

People who have never lived in a big city in the US have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Rap. It was origionally used by Black street gangs in South Bronx to stake out their territories, a lot like the musical equivalent of a dog pissing on car tires or a fire hydrant.

Rap is a form of violence when aimed at people who want peace and quiet.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM

They would definitely have to introduce a melody before I would use the word "music" in relation to it, and I would need a serious amount of time to consider whether "folk music" would ever apply. About fifty years or so

Why is this subject under discussion anyway? What is with folkies that they have to turn on something they have no appreciation or understanding of? What qualifies them to pass any sort of judgement at all or even think they're worthy of holding an opinion in the first place? Ignorance writ large, folky fuckwits - you give folk a very bad name indeed. FYI - Hip-Hop is the antithesis of everything wrong with folk music - it's alive, vibrant, traditional, relevant, happening, universal, youthful, respectful, dynamic, creative, experimental; it is the ingenuity of humanity at its most ruthlessly inventive. Oh, and it actually knows what it's talking about, first hand.

Here's one of my favourites right now:

Mayhem - We Big Like

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:56 AM

What I object to is singer / songwriters using life as an excuse for messages mired in mawkishness.

Amen to that, Beard!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM

Yo Spleen - it's life that should carry the sticker! Speaking as one who was nearly expelled from school for singing Lucy Wan (as collected from Carthy on Byker Hill), then folk can be subversive in effect, or else context, if not actual content, or else pertinence - er - how was I to know that one of the girls who complained was being fucked by her brother? But such is life, and such is art, and such is the nature of narrative anyway, which operates as much as a hammer as it does a mirror. A lot of the hullabaloo about the more extreme narratives of Eminem (etc.) missed this point too. Narrative comes from life - balladry, rap, folk tale, jokes, sagas, novels, soaps, films - all of which operate in the self-same way. What I object to is singer / songwriters using life as an excuse for messages mired in mawkishness.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:28 AM

I guess I'd say that, in its best forms, it is arguably a variety of folk art.

They would definitely have to introduce a melody before I would use the word "music" in relation to it, and I would need a serious amount of time to consider whether "folk music" would ever apply. About fifty years or so.

It's not my style, but I have nothing against it either.

Don T.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:16 AM

"With attitudes not genuinely held by the singers"
What is Martin Carthy singing Lucy Wan, then?

Spopt on! I've long held the opinion that most albums of traditional folk ballads need to carry "parental advisory: explicit content" stickers...

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:13 AM

"Ralph McTell's Peppers And Tomatos? will be sung long after most of the rap has vanished for two simple reason- it's transferable and it's in the best sense touching."

I'm a generation younger than most of McTell's fans and I don't know this song - neither, I'd bet, do most of my contemporaries.

And you can better your bottom euro that in the communities that rap sprang from, most people wouldn't have a clue who McTell was.

That's one of the problems of assuming "folk" is an - albeit contentious - genre rather than a description of a supposedly universal human process regardless of content.

Unlike some rap, most folk music, including the traditional stuff played by the most ardent of folk bus-spotters is not in any meaningful way folk music. It's hommage, hobbyism, pastiche, re-enactment and play-acting. Nothing wrong with any of these pastimes, but let's call a shovel a shovel...

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:13 AM

"with attitudes not genuinely held by the singers"
What is Martin Carthy singing Lucy Wan, then?

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:07 AM

Rap Music
Graffiti Art

Oxymorons? I don't think so.

I've been a graphic designer for nearly 25 years and I can tell you Rap and Graffiti have had a profound impact on commercial art and music. You might not believe this, but then you'd be very, very mistaken. Like it or not, these two art forms (along with hip-hop) have influenced and continue to influence to varying degrees virtually every commercially produced piece of graphic design across a broad range of disciplines, from TV commercials to film titles and magazine layout and online design. It's difficult to imagine the huge impact this has had on our visual and musical culture.

I'm not a fan of rap music, and I worry about it's influence on the young but then many people thought that about Teddy Boys in the 50's and punks in the 70's. I suspect the reason it's getting a drubbing here is because it's largely listened to and made by the young. It's a genuine form of street expression, it certainly is musical (there are plenty of other ways to make music apart from learning an instrument) and in many cases it's skilfully created - I'd like to hear some of the nay-sayers on this thread have a go and present their efforts to a group of 15 year-old rap musicians and see how good they really are.

Not all rap is overtly commercial as not all folk is. The music, like folk, evolves because ordinary people are engaged in it's creation on the street - in garages, bedrooms, pubs and clubs.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: synbyn
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:43 AM

if it is the expression of what people genuinely believe and think, and what they sing at the end of a hard day's work for their own relaxation, imho it's folk... if it's none of those things but a tie-in with product and spin-off fashion, with attitudes not genuinely held by the singers but struck to shock or impress the gullible (or to disguise the fact that no-one is prepared to put in the time to learn an instrument or to craft lines which are more than collections of basic rhyme) then imho it's a whole different animal...
this isn't unique to music- most of the arts seem to have this discussion, usually because the louder, more in-your-face artists tend to grab publicity or advertising, hence appear more wealthy than the poet with a cardigan or the draftsman... i'm old enough to remember the performance poet debate of the 60s- few would argue now that much lasted on its own merit- fashion changed and a lot of the poetry became irrelevant. this natural winnowing will happen with rap- it's already happened with most folk and is going on with the newer material. Ralph McTell's Peppers And Tomatos? will be sung long after most of the rap has vanished for two simple reason- it's transferable and it's in the best sense touching.
off soapbox

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:47 AM

Jeeaz, looking at the last couple of posts, what gives? Is the average age here twelve?

Just because you don't like a given form, doesn't mean it can be dismissed in it's entirity as 'shit' or 'crap'... and there's a very strong argument that rap is far more the "folk music" of the communities that created it than a bunch of white middle-class singer songwriters with acoustic guitars could ever be the folk music of their communities. In fact I would also argue that most white western middle class (and working class for that matter) communities probably don't have a folk music of any description any more, it having been almost completely replaced by popular commercial music a good fifty years ago. Rap is also, I would have thought, far more "folk" than the museum keepers of UK trad could ever hope to be. Much as the latter is my kind of music, it's largely a historical specialism kept going by hobbyists, rather than "folk" music in any meaningful sense beyond what it's become - genre.

In fact, there is an argument that the entire folk revival is hobbyism as a placebo for the lack of strong folk medicine in the societies where revival has been required.

But that's just me. I tend to either like or dislike the music under discussion and have less of a concern about what box to put it in. Though I understand why some have a need to do this.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,D18/J45
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 09:46 PM

Rap is crap.

An much of today's folk music is, also.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 03:36 PM

One who studies the fine differences between Rappers is a lot like a proctologist.

To normal people, shit is shit.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 03:25 PM

Professor Louie is a successful rap artist who began his musical career as a folk singer named Victor Lewis. I suggest that before anyone dismisses the genre wholesale, she or he should listen to one of his live performances.

Among the people who have recognized the folk nature of rap music are Pete Seeger, Holly Near, and the late Sis Cunningham. Heck, if Woody Guthrie were still alive he might ever try his hand at it! Wait a second, he already did. Just listen to his Talking Dust Bowl or Talking Columbia River.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: pdq
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 03:06 PM

oxymoron

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 02:58 PM

There's a case to be made for rap being urban folk of this age. Music, however, it's not.

What's the technical term for these?

Jumbo Shrimp
Military Intelligence
Industrial Park
Rap Music
Graffiti Art
Gift Shop

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 11:03 AM

In the Cambridge Folk Festival from 2003, I think, there were some rappers from Senegal. They added melodies, it was as folky as anything, and I don't even like rap!

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: quokka
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 02:51 AM

It's funny how sometimes the worst aspects of a subculture or genre come to be regarded as the stereotypical example of that genre (from an outsider's viewpoint) like what has happened with rap - I know a lot of people who dismiss the whole spectrum of 'folk music' because of what they mistakenly think it consists of. Now the term 'roots' music is starting to describe some types of folk and blues, maybe because people see it as a trendier term, or maybe because it describes the type of music according to different criteria - increasingly there are fusions between the different styles/genres that are hard to pigeonhole - which I think can be a good thing. The history of music over the last 50 or 60 years is full of successful fusions of form and content to create new styles of music. I like listening to new music, even if I don't exactly like everything I hear - it's worth it for the occasional treasure I find

Cheers,
Quokka

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Neil D
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 02:19 AM

Azizi, Thanks for the links. Once again you educate and elevate. I especially liked the Davey D article. Much of it was as I remember it from the early 80's. I was glad to see credit given to Gil Scott-Heron. I was always a fan and I always thought "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" from 1970 was a forerunner of rap. I had not however heard of The Last Poets and intend to check them out.

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Jul 08 - 01:00 AM

I was slightly mistaken above when I dated what I consided Rap's earliest proponents being in the 70's. The Last Poets who I refered to started performing in 68' & are still on the scene. They were great at what they did, back then & now & were by far, way ahead of their time, really coming out of the civil rights era of protest. I still say that they perform a non musical style of a performing art. To me it's still poetry with a beat behind it but if you're interested in Rap's birth these are the guys to check out.
As always Azizi, you have a wonderful way with presenting information in such an appealing way, it's a joy to read your posts, thanks

Barry

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 03:47 PM

I also meant to add that for the record [no pun intended] there are a lot of different genres of rap music including the gangsta, misogynistic rap that the recording studios promote so heavily. There's bubble gum rap, roots rap, rap-jazz fusion, Latin rap, and much more.

I absolutely detest gangsta rap with its "women="ho", violent, sexist lyrics and its excessive valuation of materialistic bling bling.

But I understand that we, the public, are being played if we believe that gangsta rap is the only form of rap that there is. Gangsta rap rules the airways because the music industry directs its money to it rather than to other more positive, and in my opinion, more creative forms of that genre.

**

I also want to share this exerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music:

..."Beginning in the early 1980s, hip hop culture began its spread across the world. By the end of the 1990s, popular hip hop was sold almost everywhere, and native performers were recording in most every country with a popular music industry[citation needed]. Elements of hip hop became fused with numerous styles of music, including ragga, cumbia and samba, for example. The Senegalese mbalax rhythm became a component of hip hop, while the United Kingdom and Belgium produced a variety of electronic music fusions of hip hop, most famously including British trip hop.

Hip hop also spread to countries like Greece, Spain and Cuba in the 1980s, led in Cuba by the self-exiled African American activist Nehanda Abiodun and aided by Fidel Castro's government. In Japan, graffiti art and breakdancing had been popular since the early part of the decade, but many of those active in the scene felt that the Japanese language was unsuited for rapping; nevertheless, by the beginning of the 1990s, a wave of rappers emerged, including Ito Seiko, Chikado Haruo, Tinnie Punx and Takagi Kan. The New Zealand hip hop scene began in earnest in the late 1980s, when Maori performers like Upper Hutt Posse and Dalvanius Prime began recording, gaining notoriety for lyrics that espoused tino rangatiratanga (Maori sovereignty).

Hip-hop has globalized into many cultures worldwide. We now find hip-hop in every corner of the globe, and like the South Bronx, each locale embodies a kind of globalism. Hip hop has emerged globally as an arts movement with the imperative to create something fresh by using technology, speech, and the body in new ways. The music and the art continue to embrace, even celebrate, its transnational dimensions while staying true to the local cultures to which it is rooted. Hip-hop's inspiration differs depending on each culture. Still, the one thing virtually all hip-hop artists worldwide have in common is that they acknowledge their debt to those Black and Latino kids in New York who launched this global movement in the first place.[7] As hip-hop is sometimes taken for granted by Americans, it is not so elsewhere, especially in the developing world, where it has come to represent the empowerment of the disenfranchised and a slice of the American dream. American hip-hop music has reached the cultural corridors of the globe and has been absorbed and reinvented around the world"...

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 03:41 PM

Hip-hop is the purest expression of folk music in generations, moving onto the universal as an expression of collective human experience, genius, and creative power. Tune into Channel U or Tim Westwood and simply rejoice!

Otherwise, check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zmZYRQlJec

Subject: RE: What is Folk? Is RAP the NEw Folk?
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Jul 08 - 03:24 PM

Btw, gnu, I appreciate your point that rapping is something that is found in many folk cultures.

**

Hey, Dan {olddude}, sharing information is what we all do here. That said, you're welcome.