Folk Against Fascism

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:15 AM

1st message.

Dear Jeddy


There are, surely, two main purposes to FaF.
The first is to save folk music (stricto sensu and neofolk) from becoming elided with the tree hugging texts of the Enoch Powell was right deniers and all-round scumbag rifleman and his neanderthal views. No doubt, since you are here, you have an active interest in folk music and folk dance and folk lore. Cara, are you a member of the Russ Meyer fan club ? Folk music is ours and we shall keep it BRITISH.

Secondly FaF is a publicity machine to ensure that those who have never saw or heard of a Russ Meyer film get off their backside and watch one.

Love
Richard Bridge


2nd message

I see someone calling himself "Robin Loxley" is using my photogrph ! I have reported this to facebook. Just by way of reminder, this pathetic and peurile individual calling himself (in various places) "Robin Loxley" and posting foolish recastings of my words (with meanings that are antonyms of mine) is not me

Thank you

Richard Hoff Bridge


3rd message

Cor Blimey, did you read wat my mate Richard Hoff Bridge said on Mudcat ? yeah hez a rough one alright, yeah mates in high places.

Jade, I noz Richard for years,hez me old cock sparrow, knew hiz old man too, Dick. With Richard itz nought for nought, he will be looking the apple pickers off you luv. Hez got a fork and knive, saw him with her the other day eating a Ruby Murray.

Right luv, good talkin to ya and I en't gettin into Richards arguements. He called me mate "right wing" on mudcat, and come on Jade that just en't on

Seeya darling

the Guv.




see what i mean he/she is paying very close attention to you. i have no idea who you are or wherte you are but you seem to have made a friend!!!

i am worried though that for people who don't come on here that they will start to beleive these stupid thigs, not that they are that good, i see the level of intelligence we are dealing with and i have to say i do not feel overly threatened.

LOL

take care , i hope they made you laugh as much as i did.

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:06 AM

Do please send me a copy of their latest stupidity, openly or by PM!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:59 AM

richard i think whoever this person is, they really pay attention to you. every time you post i get a message on FB distorting what you say.

I KNOW THIS IS NOT YOU!!!!!
i think they either find you really threatening or fancy the pants of you, they do say that imitation is the highest form of flatterry, but in this case i am sure you would rather they didn't

i knew you had posted here before i even looked here.

please don't let them stop you from saying wehat is on your' mind, as i look forward to reading your thoughts.

take care

jade x x

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:00 AM

Dear Cobblers

Please engage brain before putting mouth in gear.

There are, surely, two main purposes to FaF.

The first is to save folk music (stricto sensu and neofolk) from becoming elided with the racist texts of the neonazi holocaust denier and all-round scumbag Griffin and his neanderthal friends (who are daily cloning the identities of others on various forums and trying to smear their opponents as being racists and sexists too). No doubt, since you are here, you have an active interest in folk music and folk dance and folk lore, and you will recall that in the wake of the German Nazi Reich all German and Anglo-Saxon matters volklorisch became tainted with the poinonous doctrines of racial purity and supremacy and have not even yet recovered. Folk music is ours and you shall not have it.

Secondly FaF is a publicity machine to ensure that those who by inertia let the apes take a few seats see the horror that they have allowed near to our doors, and re-join civilisation to help it bar its gates against the true untermensch.

I do hope you can manage the big words.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:50 PM

cobble,   calm down man!!!
i have been told there are more folks that read these threads than post on them so maybe it has got some people motivted or changed who they vote for.
so not really a waste of time.

BTW i didn't need to get off my fat arse i have a postal vote and yes i used it.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Cobble
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:49 PM

What a waste of a thread, if people had got off their fat back sides it could have been different, so don't pick on people that did vote they at least went to the polling station and did what people fought for, for many years, THE RIGHT TO VOTE FOR WHO THEY WANTED.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:12 PM

rifleman charlie, what was that about? i am just saying that things are not always as they seem.

i, like you was disgusted that someone would ever join the BNP much less stand for election. there is no excuse not to know what they stand for.

however i am willing and wanting to believe that she has been somewhat brainwashed.

i am thinking that although i am trying to understand her motives, that she has had long enough to think about it and to gain a full picture of what they are like and what they intend to try to do.

i do not condone her actions or the towing of the party line, we all know what that is.

i am feeling somewhat conficted as i do not wish to be a reactionary bully, but would rather try to reason, i accept that in some cases(and i fear this is one)where a compromise cannot be reached.
but wasn't it worth a try?

if we could persaude the uncertain members of the party, then we would be able to turn their knowledge to our advantange, see the link that gervase made.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:45 PM

Just by way of reminder, the pathetic and peurile individual calling himself (in various places) "HoffBridge" and posting foolish recastings of my words (with meanings that are antonyms of mine) is not me.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:30 PM

Jade your emotions regarding this are just that, YOUR emotions.

Charlie ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:47 PM

Jade, it's one thing to join - it's quite another to seek election wrapped in their odious flag. Your concern does you credit, but I fear it may be wasted.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

i did wonder what was so bad, now i know that i am not mad!!

there might be more reasons than we know as to why she has joined them. i am against everything they stand for and want to see them brought down i have no wish to persecute someone who may have been pressured into something.

there is always another way but in the middle of a crisis she may not have been able to see it.

it would be so easy to scream and shout and a part of me just wants to do just that and shun her.

my god, i feel like a grown up and i am not sure i like it!!!!

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:04 PM

I suggest that everyone gives the you tube clip one star.
I see hoff bridge ,has put a favourable comment to it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U25LH7i93XU
one star please

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:39 PM

Apropos, I just did have a word with the landlord to tell him he might have some strange visitors with knuckles dragging on the ground.

His reaction?

"Sounds like we might have a bit of fun. I'll make sure we're all tooled up ready".

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:30 PM

"So poor George may find herself gagged by the proponents of free speech."

either that or we've caught the poor dear with her knickers down, and all she can respond with is "Change it now please that is a
libel(l)ous statement!"
As I stated earlier, see you in court MBSGeorge.

Charlie

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:55 AM

I PM'd her the questions yesterday. No reply.
But, as I've said, I ain't holding my breath...
There's also the chance that the BNP won't let her respond. Before the election the party high command issued a warning to members not to set up official party blogs in the run-up to this year's European elections because "they can't write proper English" and "get carried away with conspiracy theories".
The handbook said that some BNP members are "oddballs", "Walter Mitty characters", "compulsive liars" and "born troublemakers", and advised activists: "If you hear something odd or unpleasant about someone either forget about it or ask them about it to their face."
It added: "while we cannot stop individuals using the internet ... the BNP does not allow members or units to run websites or blogs which use the BNP logo or party name in their title, or which give the impression of being official BNP operations".
So poor George may find herself gagged by the proponents of free speech. It would be nice to know, one way or the other.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:55 AM

erk...!!part of my previous post got eaten....that should have read

I personally encourage MBSGeorge to put her money where her mouth is, to walk the walk instead of talking the talk, and attempt to sue anyone on this thread or on the FaF facebook site. I see nothing libellous in anything anyone has said, so MBSGeorge feel free

I'll gladly see you in court.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:44 AM

I personally encourage MBSGeorge to put her money where her mouth is, to walk the walk insted of talking the talk, and attempt to sure, I see nothing libellous uin anything anyone has said, so MBSGeorge feel free, I'll see you in court

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:25 AM

i am not sure, but it is something that needs to be done (IMO) to remind the politicians that we still care and are aware of what sort of power we COULD have over them instead of the other way round. they should be there to represent our interests and not their own.

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:22 AM

"The Hope Not Hate campaign is trying to get 100,000 signatures on a petition to hand in when Griffin and Brons take their seats in the EU Parlaiment in two weeks' time. They already have over 80,000, so if you want to help this campaign, sign up"

and the resultant effect is going to be what exactly?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: jeddy
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:03 AM

i rekon so many people voted for the BNP as a protest and didn't even think to research what they were actully voting for so i signed not only for myself but for those who beleived the hype and got sucked in and now regret it.
i think there are more people like that than we think, at least i hope so.

that blogs was very interesting. i finished the first one but i don't think i could have handled anymore without bringing up my breakfast!!!

keep fighting

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:03 AM

I've got mixed feelings about the HNH petition - I mean, I voted Green, so the Labour, Lib Dem, Tory and UKIP MEPs aren't there "in my name" either. The BNP MEPs are there in the name of their voters - that's how it works. But I think it's worth signing, just to show how much opposition there is.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U25LH7i93XU

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:30 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U25LH7i93XU
here is another dangerous person.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:11 AM

The Hope Not Hate campaign is trying to get 100,000 signatures on a petition to hand in when Griffin and Brons take their seats in the EU Parlaiment in two weeks' time. They already have over 80,000, so if you want to help this campaign, sign up at

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:07 AM

The BNP will be taking their seats in the EU parliament in just two weeks time. For anyone who hasn't signed already, Hope Not Hate have organised an on-line petition to tell the BNP that they are not there in the name of the British people.

The petition is at http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/morenamesneeded

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:46 AM

thanks Gervase.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:30 AM

And then, by way of complete contrast, there's this, part of a very bitter blog by someone who was once very close to Nick Griffin. It's not for the squeamish - when fascists fall out the gloves come off and the results are messy - but it does give a fascinating insight into the inner workings of the BNP. It's a lengthy read, but it should leave no-one in any doubt about the party and the filth that swills around in its darker corners.
Some of the well-sourced and corroborated revelations on the blog about Griffin and the BNP really should be more widely circulated, even if he has 'betrayed' National Socialism.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:12 AM

Thanks Gervase, a brilliant, well written piece. Vital reading.

FAF Andy

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:43 AM

I've just read Tom Attah's blog, Curry and a bit of Motown from his link on the FAF Facebook forum. A great piece of writing and a terrific summary of what any of us involved in music should be doing.
Pass it around.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:38 AM

Gotcha. Better still (for anyone else), google "Middle Bar Singers" - the singular form doesn't seem to be used nearly as much, which I guess is appropriate!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:36 AM

Just Google Middle Bar Singer.

FAF Andy

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:34 PM

Middle Bar Singer-- a regular pubsinging crowd?

~S~

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 06:27 PM

While it may be her "right" to continue to use the prefix MBS, I am not alone in now finding it insulting to many old friends.

I may be alone in my ignorance, but what does MBS mean?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:44 PM

Just a few points arising.
I had wondered when Joe would move this to B/S. Although it IS imho directly about the music we love, it has turned a bit introverted of late.
My idea of signing as FAF Andy arose when chatting with another MBS person. We are proud of our standing in the British folk scene. The suspicion is that BNP tagged on to MBS George because of her "title" it certainly stirred us up.
Interestingly some who wish to converse with George already know her personally. I have known her since she was very much younger and would be very interested to find where she came by her, to me, repulsive views.
While it may be her "right" to continue to use the prefix MBS, I am not alone in now finding it insulting to many old friends.

I agree with WYSIWYG, though, that it would not be good for George for her to join in with open converstaion on a Mudcat thread.

FAF Andy

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:37 PM

PM sent.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:26 PM

In that case it is unlikely that she will respond - If I send/receive something via the PM service I do not then make those messages public. You won't gain anything by making that sort of statement- except perhaps tell people that you yourself have a low moral compass - PM = Private Message.
That's a pity. I would have thought that someone who was willing to stand on a public platform for election would feel able to make their views public. But if what you say is true, and George is unwilling to answer any questions about her views or even make a public endorsement of them, that's probably all the answer we actually need.
I said in advance that her answers to the questions would be published here, specifically to make her aware of that point, so your comment about 'low moral compass' is rather wide of the mark.
Anyway, I shall still send her the questions. But, as I've said before, I'm not holding my breath for a sudden onset of moral fibre.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:38 PM

WYSIWYG, it's the done thing in the UK for people that decide to enter the world of politics (which essentially involves wanting to tell other people what they can and cannot do), to be able to support their political views when questioned and challenged. George well knows this.

Whats more George is a big grown up lady, I'm sure she can make up her own mind whether or not she feels she is inclined to answer to robust questioning, without being patronised. It might be challenging for her to defend her political views, because she will receive some strongly supported arguments off of the many serious minded and extremely intelligent posters here. But, I for one would like to hear some of what she might have to say. Plus, I'm sure she's not so foolish as not to realise that she'll get much more 'robust' questioning than that found on a folk forum, if she proceeds much further in her political career. She's going to have to develop a very thick skin.

I might dislike the politics she stands for, and I do very much, but at least I recognise that she's an adult woman capable of quite strong self-determined action - as indeed her choices have already demonstrated. Your condescending Mumsy comments however, make her look as though she's a dribbling infant in need of burping!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:37 PM

I think moving this thread to BS is an excellent idea, Martin. I had considered it earlier, but there were a few messages in the beginning of the thread that made reference to music, so I left the thread in the music section.
I reviewed the last 150 messages in the thread and saw no reference to music at all, so I must conclude that this is a very thinly-disguised political thread. As far as I can see, the last significant mention of folk music in the thread was on June 20.
So, I've moved it to the non-music section.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Royston
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:33 PM

I encourage MBSGeorge to crawl away somewhere and stop bothering decent folk. There is no point trying to engage fascists on any level until they have worked out their internal anger and bitterness for themselves and are ready to return to normal society. Just ignore her. Not worth it.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,MJ
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:31 PM

I'm only a guest as I don't currently have my own PC but will be contactable once it arrive - within the next few weeks I hope.

MJ

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:28 PM

But you're a guest MJ..... how can you receive a PM. I hope your morals are in tact?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,MJ
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:18 PM

GW

In that case it is unlikely that she will respond - If I send/receive something via the PM service I do not then make those messages public. You won't gain anything by making that sort of statement- except perhaps tell people that you yourself have a low moral compass - PM = Private Message.

MJ

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:15 PM

This thread has become hopelessly unwieldy and appears to be being maintained as a form of publicity stunt i.e. to keep it near the head of the page and mark this site as being "anti-fascist". This is, no doubt, a holy and a wholesome thought - but its musical connections are marginal, despite all the protestations to the contrary.

I suggest it be moved to BS - despite the risk that those concerned will probably simply find another vehicle to carry their message here.

Regards

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:12 PM

GW, I appreciate your remarks' description of the time-frame and responsibilities you think are appropriate. If they were addressed to me, however, you just made me one of the greatest folksingers of all time. :~) I think you also moved me halfway across a huge continent. :~) Oh, and you changed my gender too-- what an interesting day THIS will be ! ;~)


It's not in the cards for me to post often in any BNP or FAF threads. I prefer face-to-face, so please do not infer any attitudes or thoughts on my part if I do not responds. I'm just busy, so I am prioritizing my time (and about to leave on vacation, too). :~)

And, as I said, I continue to encourage MBSGeorge to exercise restraint and not respond.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:11 PM

The same questions have been asked many times - they boil down to whether or not she agrees with the statements and actions of the BNP leadership over the years.
And for someone who has stood for election - in public - her reluctance to state her convictions here is strange. She only has to post once; there's no need for her to get involved in a lengthy tit-for-tat.
But, if it makes it easier, I will PM George the questions that have been asked. She can then take her time in answering them, and I will post the answers here on her behalf.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: GUEST,MJ
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:08 PM

Gervase

What planet are you on? How could you possibly expect one person to respond to a thread with over 700 posts. It would take a year or more as each question answered would throw up more questions in response. Your expectations are a little unrealistic.

If you are that desperate to speak to MBSG then maybe you should try posing your question(s) through the pm facility instead of continuing to make assumptions and comments with very public references to her.

MJ

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 12:48 PM

A nice idea in principle, Peace, but George Dale actually started a thread here to admit "I am the BNP Candidate in Chippenham". A lot of questions were asked of her - many more in sorrow than in anger - and no answers have been forthcoming. Her last post before today was on June 9th.
I would have though that in the four weeks that have elapsed, she would have had time to compose a calm, unhurried and robust defence of her views which she could simply post as a coda that that thread. Or this one. Or as a new thread.
One of the things about seeking public office on a political ticket is being prepared to stick your head above the parapet wearing that ticket. And, seeing as George was the catalyst for the birth of Folk Against Fascism, her response to the points that have been made would be pretty interesting.
But, as I've said before, I'm not going to hold my breath...

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 12:36 PM

I have encouraged (and will continue to encourage) MBSGeorge not to respond to these issues in this forum. Because as I have stated elsewhere, anyone in her situation needs room to THINK. No matter how urgent anyone else may be about the speed of that thinking process or their desire for a response.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM

...and BNPGeorge, I would relish an action for defamation. Do, please, bring it on. A quick Google will give you enough information to serve a writ.
Nothing would give me more pleasure than to see a the racist and neo-nazi organisation that you champion pour its money into a pointless legal action.
And if it's not racist and neo-nazi, why on earth have you been staying so quiet all this time. Surely all these dreadful things said about the BNP need to be challenged by its standard-bearers, lest ordinary people actually think they're TRUE!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 10:08 AM

Ah, the American spelling of "libelous" I see. So much for racial purity.