BS: Legal action over BNP membership

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

Richard makes a fair point.

While this PARTICULAR E-Mail is (apparently) genuine, such is not usually the case.

Received wisdom is that you never give personal details in response to an E-Mail. NEVER!

I only carry out those transactions with:-

1. People or companies I know and trust.
2. People and companies with whom I have directly initiated contact.

And even then, I consider very carefully the possible pitfalls.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 12:26 PM

Richard, I have had a receipt from paypal stating that my payment has gone to Searchlight Magazine, so I'm sure it's genuine. As an extra precaution, I've checked my paypal account.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:39 AM

Richard, I think you're worrying unnecessarily. There are in fact two news items on the HNH site about Barnbrook, both dated 24/09. Neither of them ask for donations, it's true. But if you want to make sure, you could always ring them on 020 7681 8660, or send the donation snailmail to PO Box 1576, Ilford IG5 0NG.

BTW., this is the fourth time in the last month or so, that I have heard of a BNP legal representative who "couldn't make it", or found some other stalling tactic to delay court proceedings. Perhaps they figure they can hold out until a future BNP government is able to quash all such summonses.

Oh look. Hell just froze over.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:10 AM

Yes, I know that Hope Not Hate is fine, but we all get phishing emails that look as if they come from ebay or paypal or banks or whatever. I agree that if it is truly Hope not Hate it is worthy - but how do we know that the BNP's brain cell this week did not decide to try to phish for contributions? We know that the FaF admins of fakebook got phishing emails from the BNP to try to extract thier admin access codes.

I cannot find an identical page on the HnH website, although I can find a contributions page there (which is so out of date that it refers to needing to fight the euro-elections) - and that rather worries me.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:53 AM

What Emma said.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:20 AM

'Hope not hate' is Searchlight's campaign to counter racism and fascism in elections.

"Searchlight is a British anti-fascist magazine, founded in 1975, which publishes exposés about racism, antisemitism, and fascism in the UK.

Searchlight's main focus is on the British National Party (BNP), Combat 18, and other sections of the far right.
The magazine is published by political activist Gerry Gable and edited by Nick Lowles, and was founded by the late Maurice Ludmer, a lifelong Communist and longstanding anti-racist and anti-fascist."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:03 AM

Hope not Hate has been at the forefront of the recnt campaign to expose the truth about the BNP.

They are certainly resppnsible for reviving my interest over the course of the last year.

They played a key role in the publicity ampaign that kept the number of BNP seats down in europe.

www.hopenothate.org.uk is their website

You will find everything you need there.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:48 AM

How do we know that that email is genuine, and that the Paypal money sent is not going into the coffers of the BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:52 AM

I just received this email from Hope Not Hate:


"I've just got some important news and I need your help to make sure we can act on it.
Over the past few years, we've known about the secret strategy, pursued by Nick Griffin and the BNP, to lie in order to whip up fear in our communities. And for the first time we have clear, definitive and undeniable proof.

Richard Barnbrook - the BNP's third highest elected official - has been exposed fabricating two murders in a high profile BNP campaign. He has been found guilty of bringing both the Greater London Authority and the Barking and Dagenham Council into disrepute - his lies show the depths the BNP are willing to stoop to in their vile propaganda war.

And now I need your help to make sure that the communities Barnbrook represents know the truth. We urgently need to raise £5000 to deliver 150,000 targeted leaflets across London. And I need your help to make this happen.

Please contribute £25 or whatever you can afford now to help us fight back against the BNP:

http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/truth

Because of the severity of his lies, Barnbrook has been suspended by the Council for a month, forced to submit a written apology to the Greater London Authority and made to undertake "training." This is just the tip of the iceberg - the BNP has been capitalising on fear for years in an attempt to pull our communities apart. But this time is different - this time we have proof in black and white that their campaign is entirely based on fear, falsehood and hatred."

I've made a contribution and hope others will.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:50 AM

And the BNP's "legal officer" Lee Barnes was too unwell to attend poor Barnbrook to assist him. So this might be a good time to sue teh BNP or anyone involved in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:53 AM

Oh - incidentally,


Did anyone see This?



"A BNP London Assembly member could be banned after a probe found he made up details about murders in east London."

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Lox
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:48 AM

"Personally I'd have said that Britain is much more racially intolerant than France,"

That might be your feeling but I'm sorry to say that it isn't true.

Apart from the noticeable success of the far right in france under Jean Marie Le Pen, I have had numerous conversations with French Algerians, Moroccans and Lebanese living in England who say that they prefer it here because they are, as a rule, left to pursue their religion in peace, whereas in France they are often subject to more frequent and invasive police harassment not to mention more suspicion from non Muslim French folk.

I believe that England is the most grown up country in europe when it comes to race and immigration. There is BNP support, and there is racism, but peoples attitudes are generally a bit more open over here.

Even Holland, the alleged hippy capital of the world, has its fair share of right wingers. I've witnessed more skinhead activity there than I have in England and they have at least one ultra right wing rep in their parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 04:16 AM

I have checked. ALthough I cannot find any of the posts of a deleted profile "Robin Loxley" to any messageboards, his PMs have not disappeared from recipients' inboxes. It is therefore possible that Sam Hudson and Helen Butcher etc have been deleted so that the hidden 7 fans of the fake mudcat are not them.

It does not however seem probable.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:31 PM

I have, following his PM to me, PM'd (member) Sam H the above link and explained why as a result all people of conscience must oppose the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:25 PM

I can't quite believe that Sam Argyle gives his email there on the page! [e-mail]. Given the prevalence of anonymous email tools on the net Poor Sam seems to leaving himself open to receiving a lot of unwelcome mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:37 PM

ooops!
http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=BNP&init=quick#/topic.php?uid=27343550527&topic=5125

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:36 PM

I sent a message to FB a while ago requesting the removal of this 'discussion' on a BNP site - if anyone has any doubts about the degree of Islamophobia let them read this - I will not post it!

and yes......it's still there :(

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:20 PM

It's my belief that the only actual deletion was the BNP site, and that because they were using it to raise money.

I am beginning to think that Facebook doesn't care very much about complaints from Brits, which, if true would make them as racist as the BNP.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:48 PM

Yes, I'm now reasonably confident that when a profile is deleted, all of its posts go too. Unless anyone knows different.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

I believe if they had been deleted their posts would have vanished too. I have just thought of a way to check!

It is possible that they have merely made their profiles invisible save to friends - which would explain why the fake mudcat had 11 friends and only 4 visible.

Incidentally, when Sam Hudson, Helen Butcher, Leah Green and Lisa Garvey-jones were visible there was always ONE invisible member of the fake mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:38 PM

Don,

that Richard Tracey is another fake ID. They used a picture of Joe Offer. Richard Tracey is a play on the Dick Tracey comic strip character, because Joe I believe has a back ground in law enforcement or detective work.

I think the fake profile Richard Tracey has now been removed, as Helen butcher has, but the nasty after effects linger in that fake mudcat group.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:01 PM

I've been researching, looking at the fake Mudcat. All but 4 of 11 friends blanked out, but go to profile and click on discussion, and lo and behold.

There they are:-

1. Little Sammy trying to big itself up by laughing at us, when anyone with the mental capacity to click a mouse can come here and see the the dire performances of the semi literate little twit, getting the shit kicked out of itself.

2. Nasty Helen, still making sarcastic and untrue comments about Lizzie and Tam, and posting links to other sites, giving away the new location of their fake identities. The gormless little twat hasn't the sense to keep her big filthy gob shut.

There were also two other posters,

Richard Tracey, ""Please remember that Mudcat people are paraniod(and wrongly) suspicious of it's members who post with multiple identities. If they are posting anonymously or under multiple identities, most likely their posts end up being deleted, expecially from "Large Rack" threads.""   

and Houston Diamond, "I post under my name :) saves the hassle but shocks everyone that I meet at folk festivals :D""


Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

Richard did you get it the through a PM here at Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:14 AM

i was just about to ask that too don. here or on FB?

i haven't had a message from any trolls for ages!!!!

lots of love

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 09:02 AM

What kind of message Richard.

As a guest, it can't PM, can it?

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:39 AM

I have had a strange message today from our Sam. Has anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 08:31 AM

Fred, France's extreme right has a far bigger following than BNP.
Alsohttp://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_franc2.htm
Alsohttp://harmony.gnn.tv/blogs/10282/race_riots_expose_france_s_fault_lines

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:22 AM

Keith A. Personally I'd have said that Britain is much more racially intolerant than France, but that's not what I was getting at. Intolerance of immigrants is not caused by population pressure. It is caused by members of the host population perceiving, and refusing to accept, socio-cultural differences between them and the immigrants. It is exacerbated by racist genetic-determinist cruds like the BNP battening onto what are often groundless, but nonetheless understandable, misgivings about jobs, housing etc, on the part of the said population.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:03 AM

The European countries with the highest proportion of non-native residents are small nations or microstates.
In Andorra, immigrants comprise 77% of the country's 82,000 people; in Monaco, they make up 70% of the total population of 32,000; in Luxembourg, immigrants are 37% of the total of 480,000; in Liechtenstein they are 35% of the 34,000 people; and in San Marino they comprise 32% of the country's population of 29,000.

Switzerland has the highest immigrant population of any European country with more than one and a half million residents, as 23% of its 7.5 million residents are foreign-born.

Countries in which immigrants form between 10% and 20% of the population are: Latvia (19%), Estonia (15%), Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Cyprus (14.3%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Italy (11,9%),Spain (11%), France (10%) and the Netherlands.

Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Belgium, Russia, Greece, Portugal, Slovenia and the UK each have a proportion of immigrants between 5% and 10% of the total population.

The latest official figures show that in the year to December 2008, net immigration to the UK was 118,000, down 44 per cent on the previous year. 512,000 people migrated to the UK and 395,000 left in 2008

Although not a member of the EU, the number of immigrants in Norway currently is approximately 508,000, which corresponds to 10.6 per cent of the population.
The five largest immigrant groups in Norway are in turn Polish, Pakistani, Swedish, Iraqi and Somali.

As of 2006, the French national institute of statistics INSEE estimated that 4.9 million foreign-born immigrants live in France (8% of the country's population)
The number of French citizens with foreign origins is generally thought to be around 6.7 million or 10% of the population

In the most recent published world Immigration Statistics > Immigrants as percentage of state population by country
Ireland ranks as one of the highest EU countries at 12.81


A recent study has shown that since 1980, the percentage of births registered in Sweden to mothers born outside the country has nearly doubled from 12 percent to 22 percent
The study's authors attribute the difference in part to the tendency of newly arrived immigrants to have children shortly after their arrival and in part because some groups of immigrant women are more likely to start having children earlier in life.
This is a similar figure to the approximately 20% reported in the UK

In 2006 a BBC news report stated
'Europe's working-age population is shrinking as fertility rates decline. In a fit of gloom, one German minister recently warned of the country "turning the light out" if its birth rate did not pick up.'

So are births to foreign born British mothers to be celebrated or just used as more ammunition for racist policies such as the BNPs?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:41 AM

Would you really say we are more intolerant than France?
Any other country?
Justify.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:20 AM

Keith A of Hertford. And a higher level of racial intolerance?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 05:46 AM

No problem

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:59 AM

Jade, I think one of the problems that can occur between indigenous and immigrant populations, are cultural differences concerning the ways we socially interact on an everyday basis.

Sometimes such differences are quaint or amusing, sometimes they become sore points. I went to a university with a lot of foreign students and seemingly small things can become tensions, and can build resentments over time - if they remain left unaddressed.

In Italy apparently it's quite normal to shove the people in front of you, when boarding a bus. Well of course, it used to completely fuck me off! Equally however, if I were to imagine myself as a Japanese person watching the real me doing things as I normally do, I might well appear like some obnoxious lout!

One day a Dutch girl I was friendly with told me she was "in love" with a beautiful guy she'd seen at some university social meet.
She was all sighs about him! He was Italian.

A few weeks later she told me that he'd done the most romantic thing!

They'd been sitting in the library near each other.
She left her desk for a book and when she returned, he was gone but on her desk was a love note telling her how beautiful she looked in the sunlight, asking her if she'd like to go out to ring him - and leaving his phone number.

I said "So did you ring him then?"

She pulled a face and said very matter of factly -"No of course not! If he wants to talk to me, he can just come up and talk to me!"

I never heard about him from her again..

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:25 AM

Emma B
"Ironically, newspapers and political leaders in other countries are equally convinced that they are the victims of similar iniquities!"

Maybe, but does any other EU country have:

A higher population density than England?( Only 3 major countries on the whole planet do.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2967374/England-is-most-crowded-country-in-Europe.html )

A higher level of net or gross immigration?

A higher proportion of non home language schoolchildren?

A higher proportion of immigrants in the workforce?

A higher proportion of foreign born new mums?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:35 PM

First off...Jade you're doing just fine...you're not digging anywhere, keep up the writing you have a good grasp of the situation at hand

Richard, what we do or don't do is just as you describe, but having said that, there are some who would cross that line and mete out punishment, goaded on by members of the very organisations we are up against, that's what the BNP etc wants, a violent confrontation between them and the anti fascist organisations.

I'm old enough to remember and to have taken part in the Anti-Vietnam actions in Grosvenor Square back in the late sixties, I saw th Met's finest deliberately goad people into violent action and then take full advantage and pound the crap out of any demonstrator at hand, I know, I was one of those so beaten, at one demo, I was simply trying to pull someone clear of being trampled by horse's hooves

It's something we have to avoid at all costs, because if we don't, we've lost the war before we start.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: jeddy
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:16 PM

i knew there was more to this than i was aware of. but i did not realize that i have been manipulted to the degree i was.

thanks for going with me on this subject.

i cannot say i blame peope for not wanting to stay in greece, it sounds horrendous, i think i would rather take my chances elsewhere.

i am not sure about france pasing the buck to us. we turn more people away than we take in. surely this is counter productive?   this just creates illegals trying to come in by other means. increasing debts to the traffickers, thereby giving them more wealth.

why are france not very well equipped for these poor people. the article says that are building more centers for them, but why are there not enough already?   
is it possible that once you have assylum you can go to another country legally with a passport?
even if not, i always thought you at least got somewhere safe and decent to live while you await assylum or a work permit? so why not go down that route, at least until you find a way here?


the tactics used by the BNP are to scare us all that this country will be taken over by migrants, where as that report says anything but that.

if we didn't do anything to try to stop the BNP then we would be just as guilty as those who don't vote in allowing them to get in unopposed.
i wonder whether peaceful protest would come under intimidation in that sort of list?

back to migrants or assylum seekers, there is a myth that they get houses and new furniture and TVs to go with it, i unerstand most of that, what i don't get is the new part? is this true?

i also see why some people get angry about the way SOME migrants behave.

example: mum and dad were doing a carbbot sale, they have alot asians in their town due to being a universiity town.
it was towards the end when an asian family came to their stall, they asked how much some hair straightners were. they got told 50p. they threw them down with no respect and look like they were being ripped off.

that sounds awful and petty i know, but when you have to live with that attitude from alot of people for a long time you start to feel resentment towards that group.

i also know that carboot sales are famous for things being cheap, that is the whole point, but there comes a time when you get sick of a group of people always wanting good stuff for nothing.

i know too that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush, that there are rude people everywhere and of all skin colours, but i think that kind of thing is just rude. maybe people like that stick out more and are more remembered because they have been rude and abnoxious.

ok, i now sound like the biggest racist going, i assure you i am not, but i do see why these things annoy people.
it is easy for me to be even handed as i am not normally on the recieving nd of this sort of behaviour, i would hope that if i was on a regular basis, i would try to talk to whoever it was about it, instead of banding all groups of people together.

i will shut up now, as i feel like i am digging a great big hole!!! LOL

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 05:38 PM

Surely what we do demonstrates disapprobation but does not mete out punishment.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 04:58 PM

My point is, is that anti racist activity is seen a vigilantism, a description I would not disagree with

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 03:47 PM

Not a great deal of practical help

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:56 PM

from the Wikipedia entry on Internet vigilantism:

Anti-racism activism.

Many online use tactics to combat racism, harassing and destroying racist groups on MySpace and other social web services.

Internet vigilantism

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 06:37 AM

Keith is correct asylum seekers are supposed to hand in their applications in the first EU country they reach, but many travel illegally through Europe to reach a country where they have a better chance of being granted residency.

The EU is a major destination for asylum seekers, receiving 103,500 new applications during the first six months of 2008.
Most of these were from Iraq.

The Dublin regulation contains clear rules about the Member State responsible for assessing an application for asylum. It is an important instrument for the prevention of multiple demands and
allows EU countries to return refugees to the country of entry.

Greece, with its long coastal borders, is at the front line of migration to the European Union, with nearly 20,000 new asylum applications lodged there last year

Under this pressure Greek asylum procedures (described as 'Abolish appeals. No backlog. No Problem.') are just the tip of the iceberg of a system that fails at every stage to protect refugees and unaccompanied children.

These failures include illegal push-backs of migrants at the Turkish border, the puncturing of boats in the Aegean Sea, deplorable conditions of detention, police brutality, and various legal and administrative tricks to keep asylum seekers from lodging a claim, all of which Human Rights Watch exhaustively documented in two reports published late last year.

see also "Stuck in a Revolving Door: Iraqis and Other Asylum Seekers and Migrants at the Greece/Turkey Entrance to the European Union." by Bill Frelick

I am of the opinion that the only way of managing the asylum issue is on a European-wide basis.

In the UK there is a false perception that this country carries an unfair burden, compared with other EU members which is fueled by scare headlines in the right wing press and the activities of the BNP etc

Ironically, newspapers and political leaders in other countries are equally convinced that they are the victims of similar iniquities!

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 03:20 AM

The rule is that asylum must be applied for in the first European country entered.
The usual migrant route from Afghanistan and Iraq is through Greece.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:09 PM

Who are some of the folks in 'the jungle'?

They are people like Najib Akhel Jabar, a rail-thin 12-year-old from the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, who said his father sold a piece of land to pay smugglers to take him and his cousin, also 12, to Europe, after Taliban fighters had repeatedly tried to press the boys into fighting with them.

French Immigration Minister Eric Besson said on Tuesday that the 132 children arrested would be housed in special immigration youth centers until officials determined whether they qualified for asylum.
In the camp on Monday Jabar described how he and his cousin hid in container trucks for six weeks across Turkey, Greece, Italy and France, before arriving in Calais in early August. "I am very afraid that the French police will send me back," he said, adding, "I am less afraid of the French police than the Taliban." Dressed in a light raincoat, Jabar was among those who were arrested on Tuesday morning."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009092...08599192533500

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 05:52 PM

over their dead bodies....somone out there could probably arrange that as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM

It seems that so far from (as Keith A said) the jungle becoming populated because of the UK's lax border control, France is now compaining that the UK should take MORE of the jungle inhabitants in and the UK's border agency is saying (broadly) "over our dead bodies".

Does this merit a new thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:27 PM

No self-respecting bird or cat would use either rag or The News of the World, nor HELLO! for that matter

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:47 PM

Longboat. There are two newspapers which I loathe and detest above everything else. The other one is the Daily Express. As a friend of mine is wont to opine, both of them make great linings for cat litters.

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: longboat (inactive)
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:43 PM

Fred, if you can stand it, check out yesterday's Daily Mail take on these young Afghanis (terrorists all is one caption, or something like it) It should be archived online

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Emma B
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:27 PM

I fail to see how France is 'handing ammunition' to the BNP apart from the remark reported in the Telegraph by the Calais mayor Natacha Bouchart that "Requesting asylum is easier with them (the British) than in France," - presumably based on the size of the backlog and the subsequent time it takes for an application to be processed. This is sometimes another factor in an asylum seeker's choice of country.

The reasons for wishing to go to a particular country are numerous - but mostly are related to language and cultural links

Although the European Union has been trying to harmonise its asylum procedures, there are still differences in the kind of reception an asylum seeker can expect.

On this BBC site are the details of what asylum seekers can expect when they arrive at the main host countries.

Despair of 'The Jungle'

"Among the migrants were young men, some clearly under the age of 16; child-travellers vulnerable to bullying and sexual abuse. Some of their families had saved money to send these teenagers across time-zones seemingly unaware of the risks

They were curious to know about Britain. They were surprised to find I had sometimes visited their home towns like Kandahar or Ghazni. Many were full of hope but suddenly they would break off a conversation. They had seen someone, usually a gang leader or trafficker who feared the presence of reporters

I often asked them why they wanted to come to Britain. Many regarded the UK as Eldorado. Indeed some relief agencies had tried disabusing them of the British dream. It made no difference. For a key reason for heading to England was that there were established communities already there: Afghans, Somalis, Kurds etc. And that is where they would find work, in the black economy, amongst people who spoke their language and knew their traditions.

Many needed the money to pay off the traffickers who had helped them make the journey. If they failed to find the funds their families back home could be threatened."

Gavin Hewitt, Special Correspondent for BBC News writing today

Subject: RE: BS: Legal action over BNP membership
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 12:14 PM

Sorry folks but there's something here I just don't get. If it's alright for our troops to invade Afghanistan and blow the place to bits, why is there such a hoo hah over a few Afghanistanis wanting to settle here in peace to work and contribute to the UK economy?