BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:28 PM

Don: "Everything I said still stands.
I leave it for others to make up their own minds as to who's telling the truth."

Don: "It is YOU who insists THAT SAME-SEX ORIENTED people MUST SEEK COUNSELING for their "condition."

GfS: Now being as I've contended that you misquote, and lie, and 'go on' about what you MISINTERPRETED what I say, I'll Show you...Now Ebbie, pay attention, ..I mean, YOUR the one who would lay money down, about Don being right.....(Shhh..don't take up gambling)

OK Don, You big mouth maggot liar, find where I posted that! (MUST SEEK COUNSELING) Cut and paste the quote, with the date, from the thread, or you can apologize to the posters and all those reading who don't post, for deliberately lying to them!
If you can't do that, then shut the fuck up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 11:34 PM

Royston: "In context - gay men and black people getting judged by GfS and Ake for behaviour....."

GfS: WHAT??????? Okay, you cut and paste where I mentioned 'black people's behavior, or you can join the ranks with Don.

Some of you, will go to no limit on finding stuff to bullshit about!
Hey, 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees, too!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 01:29 AM

You said "The straightest of the straight is quite happy to get a bit from one of the lads

Happy to betray the wives anf girlfriends outside. Is that what you think about them?
Royston, the overwhelming fear of the straight man going to prison is that he will be forced into gay sex.

Those early posts of Ake and GFS (it was only Ake in your first attempted excuse!) are robustly put, but they only reference the increased risk of infection which you acknowledge.
Not once do they ascribe it to loose morals.
Not once do they comment on sexual hygiene.
There is nothing there to incite your nasty anti straight gibe.
In any case, when criticised early on for raising old issues, you apologized and said you had not read it.
You have not excused yourself. It came from you and revealed something you would now want to conceal.

Don T, by now thousands of straight people have been infected.
If they were susceptable to an epidemic it would have happened.
The extra number of African contacts will not alter that.
This has all been gone over. Use pm next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 03:02 AM

Sex in prison.

You need to do some more reading, Keith. Yes I would imagine most inmates fear prison sexuality, sometimes it amounts to rape and sexual violence. For many it does not. And the people involved do not - whether consensual or not - identify themselves as homosexual. So my comment was wrong or nasty in what way, exactly?

Plenty of articles, this is just the first I found.

http://lockupdoc.com/2009/11/sex-between-prison-inmates-why-it-cannot-be-ignored

In the context of the discussion at the time it was an important comment on the fact that sexuality is not a fixed thing in very many people.

Now, Keith, why aren't you attacking any one else that made the same observation. it was on the thread before me? What does that tell us about you?

At least we got you to admit that you do wholeheartedly support Ake's view's as "robustly put" concern for his fellow man.

You're busted, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 03:31 AM

Those early posts of Ake and GFS (it was only Ake in your first attempted excuse!) are robustly put, but they only reference the increased risk of infection which you acknowledge.
Not once do they ascribe it to loose morals.
Not once do they comment on sexual hygiene.

So there was nothing in those posts to warrant an attack on morals or sexual hygiene, and you had not read them then anyway.
But, unlike me, you say you are happy to be called bigot, so we can move on.

You said you did not know that the 5 fold (uk acquired) increase was in people from Africa, so can we take it that you did know that the bigger rise referred to in your first post was mainly due to infection in Africa?
So was the "loose morals and grotesque sexual hygiene" remark mainly intended for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 04:03 AM

Did you mean to say,"networks"?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:11 AM

Guess what......

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:12 AM

.......is looming up......

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:13 AM

.....in this thread ?????

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:16 AM

My nervous breakdown, that's what. (Oh and another nice big round number.)

Can't you just let it go ? You all have sincere views, ranging from the righteous to the deranged, but do you think you are ever going to persuade each other to back down ? No. So why not let it shrivel ?

And if someone says "because X called me a dirty rotten liar and I'm not", IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, because nobody is reading this thread except you yourselves.

And me, evidently. But I couldn't really give a flying fuckeroo.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:44 AM

Please don't spoil it for me Smedley.
I imagine an audience of thousands hanging on my every gibe.
We are hurting no one, and although no one else cares, I will not meekly allow myself to be called bigot, homophobe, racist, liar,...

I will not blame you if you leave us to it Smedley.
All the best,
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:14 AM

More evidence of an anti straight agenda.

In Royston's first post he also refers to "the well-documented tidal wave of heterosexually acquired STI's amongst straight teenagers in the UK"

Is it well documented that straight infection is worse?
I have evidence to the contrary.
What do you have Royston?

That post says that hetero AIDS has overtaken gay Aids, and hetero STIs are worse than gay STIs, because of straight loose morals and disgusting sexual hygiene, and none of it is true.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:40 AM

""Use pm next time.""

For what reason?.....To hide the untenability of your insistence that how things are is how they will always be?

No thanks, I'd rather set you up for the inevitable results of your dumbass naivete.

It'll take time, but I'll be on your case, come the day.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 10:19 AM

Don, it is just that you keep asking to be taken through things again that we have already finished with.
Since no one else is reading I suppose it does not matter, but you get in the way of the current debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 01:30 PM

Debate?, Keith. What, you and I hitting each other with handbags?

We could go at this ad infinitum. You have proven your point: that accusations and name-calling are easy to bandy about, others will just have to make their own mind up where, if anywhere, there is any substance to what you and I accuse each other of.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 02:00 PM

Royston....I would be obliged if you would address any problems you have with what I have written here, to me and not to Keith.

Keith has supplied only factual evidence to this thread, he has never to my knowledge expressed any personal opinion on homosexual practice.

Keith and I are opposed on quite a few political issues, but is straight in the true meaning of the word.

I dont suppose he would be presently involved here, had you not verbally abused him earlier.

I also suppose you regret that mistake rather deeply.

Why dont you just give up?   The opposition to the views concerning homosexual health statistics has faded, leaving only the lunatic fringe; Don T, yourself and Smedley....who seems to be in the throes of a nervous breakdown..... Is it really worth it? best just go back to sleep!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 02:42 PM

Akeneaton, we have traditionally been on opposing sides when we have been in debate.
We do not exactly agree even here.
Royston tried to use your posts as justification for his anti straight outburst.
I just pointed out that nothing you or anyone else said had any bearing on that nasty bit of bile he spat out.
I was not trying to speak for you.

So Royston, what about your claim that STIs are worse among straights, and your attacking the morals and sexual hygiene of African immigrants?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 04:35 PM

I have explained my comment - the one and only gibe. There is nothing more to add, Keith.

I did not attack anyone - gay, straight, black or white. You saying otherwise does not make it so.

Others will have to decide what to make of both of us.

I

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 04:38 PM

I...hit send too early

I suspect that you subscribe to the "last man standing" school.

So go ahead, knock yourself out.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 04:45 PM

I guess they're still looking...........

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:12 PM

Royston, you posted about STIs more than once.
You have not been asked about it before.
Can you justify your claims?
A reasonable request surely.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:41 PM

Official figures:- 10% of young heterosexual women in the UK infected with STDs, most commonly Chlamydia.

What do you reckon, Keith, is likely to happen to that figure when you add in the number of young heterosexual men with infections?

Where did the girls get it from, Keith?

Then think about the older heteros of both sexes.....Frightening, isn't it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:46 PM

Keith, you and Lox argued the toss (no pun intended) over STI rates and reached a number of agreements that knocked back a lot of your claims at the time. I am not about to get dragged back into your private statistical hell. We've been at this for months, it was execrable going in one direction - going round in circles again now is absurd.

Don't tell Ake that you "don't exactly agree" with him or that you are "traditionally on opposing sides" when a few posts back you looked at his prejudices and called them "robustly put" concerns for people's well being and when you came into this argument to defend those views. You must really be hoping that nobody else is reading this. Nobody else is going to take you seriously for that.

My posting record is here in black and white. If, now that you know I am gay, you want to forensically analyse months of discussion for new lines of attack then you will do it alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 05:49 PM

Careful, Don. T, you will be labelled a part of the homosexual conspiracy in a moment. Mrs. T. will have to take your handbags and heels away.

Seriously, mate, I wouldn't give these tired embers any further oxygen.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 07:56 PM

GfS, while my wife and my son (who is visiting this week from eastern Canada) are out doing some shopping, I just spent a disgusting half-hour wading through some of your posts on the Prop 8 thread.

You constantly refer to same-sex relationships as "dysfunctional behavior" and insist that homosexuals need to seek "counseling." True, I cannot find a specific instance of you saying—in so many words—that same-sex oriented people should be compelled to seek counseling. However, this is the thrust of most of your posts all through that thread.

Along with this, you keep insisting that "Homosexuality is NOT a political issue. It is, in FACT, A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!!" [direct quote from your post of 04 Jan 09 – 3:40 p.m. on the "Prop 8" thread]. And, of course, same-sex orientation was removed from the APA's list of psychiatric problems a few decades back, so it is not a mental health issue, according to those who know best. And you keep yapping that those who favor gay marriages being legally recognized are pushing the "liberal agenda" when you said in that same post that the matter is not a political issue.

I presume that this sort of flip-flop and chronic self-contradiction is because your tongue gets all tangle around you eye-teeth, so you can't see what you're saying.

Also, in the vast majority of posts in both that thread and in this one, you indulge in abusing those with whom you disagree and sprinkle your posts with smutty-mouthed personal insults (your latest being to call me a "big mouth maggot liar"—very mature in the debating department, GfS!), and in the Prop 8 thread, you are warned several times by Joe Offer to stop cutting and pasting from other peoples' posts, and when quoting others, to indicate that it is a quote and to give proper attribution to whoever you are quoting from. And—to lay off the personal insults and abuse. But you go right on doing it anyway, from that thread on into this one.

If you can't remember from one post to another which lie or which piece of misinformation you posted previously, then I'm not going to spend any more time wading through that septic tank you call a brain and try to find them for you. Do your own damned homework!

There is no need for me to apologize to anyone, especially not you.

I think I'll go take a shower!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 08:10 PM

Good idea Don....there's a westerly blowin tonight and I can smell you from here......don't forget to brush your teeth! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:43 PM

Don: "Also, in the vast majority of posts in both that thread and in this one, you indulge in abusing those with whom you disagree and sprinkle your posts with smutty-mouthed personal insults (your latest being to call me a "big mouth maggot liar"—...."

GfS: Speed is a bi-product of accuracy.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 09:54 PM

In case you missed it, Ake, what you're smelling is the reek of contamination from the contents of GfS's so-called brain. I'm not ever going to go there again! Disgusting!!

By the way, GfS:   "Hey, 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees, too!"

Isn't that sort of like blaming the window for breaking when someone throws a brick through it?

In matters of cause and effect, it's a good idea to try to figure out which is which.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 10:09 PM

Don: "By the way, GfS:   "Hey, 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees, too!"
Isn't that sort of like blaming the window for breaking when someone throws a brick through it?
In matters of cause and effect, it's a good idea to try to figure out which is which."

GfS: By golly, he's ALMOST getting it! Maybe more smelling salts!

Do I have to explain that it is a joke.....used by the late Pat Paulsen? (Used to describe people such as the slow Don F...and their logic(?).

Jeez!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Mar 10 - 11:00 PM

Oh! For some bizarre reason, I thought you were being serious!

I mean, after all, it's a fair example of the kind of "logic" that you have been using.

Don Firth

P. S. No, I have not memorized all of Pat Paulson's routines. TTFN.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 01:39 AM

Don: "Oh! For some bizarre reason, I thought......"

GfS: I believe you on that one!(wink)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 02:23 AM

Royston, you are resorting to deception to cover your tracks.
Your credibility sinks even further.
"you and Lox argued the toss (no pun intended) over STI rates "

No we did not.
He referred to them and I let it go. (I was determined to establish the truth about AIDS first.)
No one has justified your claims about STIs.
I say they can not be justified.

You quote the first half of my sentence, but make up the second half!
Why not quote the whole sentence? I only said it he same day!
Who is going to be fooled?

Here it is again.
Those early posts of Ake and GFS (it was only Ake in your first attempted excuse!) are robustly put, but they only reference the increased risk of infection which you acknowledge.

We both agree that MSMs have a higher risk, don't we?

Don T, thank you for that figure but it is no help.
Where is it from?
Is it stable or rising?
What is the corresponding figure for MSMs?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 03:05 AM

Keith, the point about that 10% figure - which you accepted - was that amongst sexually active heterosexual goups (which I think you agreed was an appropriate comparison for the MSM statistics) there was a chlamydia rate of 10% and this was higher than the 4% HIV rate for MSM's. Both of those are other people's figures - the 4% was yours, was it not? They are both accepted, aren't they? I am not getting dragged back into nit-picking other people's figures. The government is bombarding us with information about STI's being more prevalent because of the failure to use condoms

Chlamydia (just one such example) is spread by unprotected penetrative sex.

So heterosexual people are not being protected from HIV by their behaviour, are they? The context being that behaviour was being used as a judgement against gay and later against black people.

That is the point, Keith. For most other people there is a point to these discussions.

Is that point wrong?

If behaviour is what defines HIV/STI infection rates between groups, then groups displaying similar and shared behaviours should have the same prevalences of the same diseases, shouldn't they? Well they do display shared, risky behaviours, yet the disease outcomes are different

The point is not that one group behaves "better" or "worse" than the other - the point is the exact opposite, it is to refute that suggestion completely. This it not about gay=bad, straight=good (which is what Ake believes and consistently and honestly argues)

That has been my utterly consistent point all along.

Now that you know I am gay, you can try all you like to spin that 180 degrees - people will draw the only logical conclusion about you for that.

You are proving everthing of which I accused you, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:04 AM

Your being gay is absolutely not an issue for me, but it puts your anti straight posts in an entirely different perspective than when we assumed you were straight yourself.

The final and best figure I gave for MSMs with AIDS was 8.5% at the most extreme conservative figure. Probably double that.

Chlamydia is symptomless and harmless in men. Not of much interest to MSMs.
I say that for any STI you can think of, MSMs are infected at a much higher rate than straight people.
Do you agree Royston?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 07:41 AM

An example of a post of yours that looks different now.
From an 11th Jan post.

"I shows that heterosexually acquired HIV has outstripped homosexually acquired HIV for the entire period - in some years by a factor of at least 3 to 1.
Oh dear Ake, by your rational we now need to do something to control these filthy heterosexual types, don't we? For what do you think heterosexual people are now receiving the AIDS punishment? GfS, anything to say about this?"

You already knew that the rise was simply due to people moving from one country to another.
You also said that it showed Ake to be a liar and a bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 08:33 AM

Keith, you carring on like this is absurd.

We already busted you for that 8.5% nonsense because your figures were bogus - they were based on gay men being 1-2% of populations, which was show to be utterly silly.

So - and it was still imperfect - 4% HIV prevalence was accepted apparently for the sake of argument.

But the point was not about gay/straight better/worse more/less STI's, it was about the fact that Ake and GfS were wrong to assert - as they did - that homosexual practice was in and of itself causative of the HIV prevalence.

The way to disprove that assertion is to point out the heterosexual STI prevalence - spread by the same risky behaviours as evidence that practice is not solely responsible for the outcome.

I was angry, I had a tongue in cheek. I stand by my comments totally.

You are a nasty bigotted lying piece of work.

And now everyone knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 08:54 AM

I was not "busted" over the 8.5% figure.
You never even respondes to it!!
They came from the most authoratative source, the HPA!
28 Feb 10 - 07:38 AM

Don T, re your repeated assertion that 96% msms are not infected.
According to HPA
In 2007,    The prevalence of HIV (both diagnosed and undiagnosed infections) among MSM aged 15-44 was estimated to be 8.5% (range 7.0-10.5%)

By 2007, 32% of all MSM seen for HIV care were aged over 45, and 17% were over 50.
http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1203928687610
So well over 10% of MSMs are infected.
Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15%

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 09:07 AM

According to you I am a "nasty, bigoted, lying piece of work."
But, unlike you I do not say nasty things.
Unlike you, I have never made a bigoted remark.
Unlike you, I have not resorted to lies.

You would like this debate to be about something else now, but you set the agenda.
You arrived spewing abuse at individuals and at straight people, and crowing gleefully that AIDS had taken off among heterosexuals (LIE), and crowing gleefully that STIs were worse among heterosexuals (LIE).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 10:14 AM

""Don T, thank you for that figure but it is no help.
Where is it from?
Is it stable or rising?
What is the corresponding figure for MSMs?""

1. Official government figures, also recently reported on by the BBC.
2. Latest figure, as far as I can make out, and if they are reporting on it now, that in itself suggests a rise.
3. You know this already. 4% infected with HIV, which you claim as a homosexual disease, so, presumably a similar situation with other STDs, else HIV would be higher too.

Since these figures are based on percentages of the various groups, MSMs come over as being somewhat safer, wouldn't you say. More especially as there has been NO equivalent to the 500% increase in UK acquired hetero infections.

I suspect, when they stop separating young women, and give figures based on ALL heteros, it will be vastly worse.

This may well be the reason for giving figures only for young females. As I said above, "Where do young heterosexual females acquire their STDs?" Do I hear anyone whispering "Young heterosexual males"?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 10:25 AM

""I was not "busted" over the 8.5% figure.
You never even respondes to it!!
They came from the most authoratative source, the HPA!
28 Feb 10 - 07:38 AM

Don T, re your repeated assertion that 96% msms are not infected.
According to HPA
In 2007,    The prevalence of HIV (both diagnosed and undiagnosed infections) among MSM aged 15-44 was estimated to be 8.5% (range 7.0-10.5%)""

And your 8.5 percent is based on age groups 15 to 44.

We have a population now, in which there are more people over 65 than there are under sixteen.

So you take a figure based on nineteen years out of an expected average eighty one, and claim it applies to the whole grouping.

That is total bollocks Keith and I suspect that you know it, and still cynically misrepresent the situation.

Your statements lack any credibility when you insist upon cooking the books to make a point.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 11:00 AM

Don, 8.5% of the 15 to 44 age group are infected.
But it also clearly states that,

By 2007, 32% of all MSM seen for HIV care were aged over 45, and 17% were over 50.

I will give you STI facts with sources Don.
Stand by!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 11:18 AM

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1216022461534
Young men who have sex with men
There have been worrying increases in the number of younger men
diagnosed with STIs in the past decade, with more than a doubling of
diagnoses of HIV (from 128 in 1998 to 281 in 2007) and a threefold
increase of gonorrhoea (339 to 1001) – increases similar to that observed
in older men who have sex with men.
http://www.swish.org.uk/?q=sex_info/stis
Numbers of all STIs have increased in the last few years and some of them, such as Chlamydia, have doubled in the past 6 years, especially amongst young people and gay men.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/LGBhealth/Pages/Sexualhealthgaymen.aspx
Gary Williams from Birmingham's Healthy Gay Life project

"Gay men should have a check-up at least every six months at a sexual health clinic, because for some infections you will not see any symptoms," says Williams.
http://www.avert.org/stdstatisticuk.htm
Cases of gonorrhea rose steadily from 1999 and peaked in 2002. Since then, the number of new cases has declined. Diagnoses are high among specific groups, such as black ethnic populations and men who have sex with men (MSM).
The UK's syphilis epidemic is largely concentrated among men who have sex with men (MSM),

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 01:04 PM

Royston: "But the point was not about gay/straight better/worse more/less STI's, it was about the fact that Ake and GfS were wrong to assert - as they did - that homosexual practice was in and of itself causative of the HIV prevalence."

GfS: Actually Royston, my main thrust was that PROMISCUITY was the reason STI's were spreading. Re-read my posts, before commenting on them with inaccuracies.

Keith: "GfS, anything to say about this?"

GfS: Let me review your posts and the exchanges, so I get a better picture, before I post.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:49 PM

Keith you unravelling like this far exceeds my greatest expectations.

But you have gone absolutely mental.

The only true figure you've quoted is that according the the HPA, HIV prevalence rates amongst MSM's 15-44 might be as high as 8.5%

Your comment:

"So well over 10% of MSMs are infected.
Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%"

Is just hyperbole with no support and you need to withdraw it.

We established from this

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

That at least 6.3% of men are MSM's that have had "genital sex". More if you include other forms of sexual contact, and the point of that survey is that numbers identifying and self-reporting as gay keep growing.

I genuinely haven't managed to find a way of removing, say, under 15's from the population statistics to make a totally like for like comparison with the STI/HIV figures that start recording at age 15 upwards - please feel free to do it.

But as a rough indication, if there are 63mm people in the country then should be about 31.5mm men and if at least 6.3% are gay then there are at least 1,984,500 gay men.

Your data here:

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1203928687610

Says there are an estimated 32,000 MSM that are HIV+, that is an overall prevalence of 1.6%

So, Keith, piss off with your ignorant, lying, bilious attacks on gay men.

Is that clear enough for you?

Keith on Gay men and HIV

"Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15% "

Like I said, Keith, your implosion has exceeded my wildest expectations.

Bloody fabulous!

GfS, I still have some of your more sensational comments ringing in my ears - you said that you kick out (or words to that effect) when pushed, maybe it stops people from listening to what you were saying before the 'kick'.

When I went back to read the stuff going on when I came into the thread, the really offensive stuff wasn't coming from you, but from Ake. I want to acknowledge that openly. What you were saying about the ex-gay movement and the assumptions that we are all suffering from something that needs to be cured are wrong-minded and do cause offence: but you do not set out to be offensive - until that 'kick' comes.

I have a lot more respect for you and for Ake, who are at least honest (to me) even if I believe you to be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 04:55 PM

Because, Keith, your comment

"Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15%"

Must be either:

Ignorant,

Ingnorant and prejudiced,

or lying and prejudiced.

You choose, I couldn't care less.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 05:06 PM

So when, in order to explain that risky behaviours were common to all sexualities, I pointed to 10% of young women having Chlamydia - which is true - I was 'anti-straight', whatever that means.

Oh, yes, that didn't trouble you when I said, and when other people said it - and more. It only became a live issue for you when I told you I was gay and then suddenly you attack me - and not anyone else that said the same thing - as being 'anti-straight'. And you think that is acceptable? Really? Do you?

When I said that HIV prevalence among gay men appeared to be 4%, I must have been homophobic - given that it appears to be only 1.6% or thereabouts.

So what does that make you, when you said of gay men that their HIV prevalence was:

"Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15%"

None of which was true - all of which is a lie dreamed up in your twisted little head.

Tell us, Keith. Go on. Carry on.

I haven't had this much sport for ages.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 05 Mar 10 - 05:16 PM

Keith: "There have been worrying increases in the number of younger men diagnosed with STIs in the past decade, with more than a doubling of
diagnoses of HIV (from 128 in 1998 to 281 in 2007)"

And when we talked about increases in straight HIV diagnosis from about 200 to 1,300 over the same period, you told us the increase was from infinitessimal to insiginificant - or words to that effect.

Do you remember that Keith? Do you?

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 01:58 AM

Royston, I told you that I let the STI lie pass because I wanted to establish the truth about AIDS first.
It is not all about you. That just changed the perspective of your nasty attacks on straight people.

that ghon. rise would be infinitesimal if it was for the general population. The best survey we have found says MSMs are about 3%.

Around 8.5% of MSMs between ages 15 and 44 are infected.
None of your frenzied statisticking changes that.
We know that a third of all MSMs receiving treatment are over that age.
That is a very large number of people who will eventually die of AIDS, but THOUSANDS more would be in that age group if AIDS had not killed them already.

So, it is not ignorant, billious, lying, hyperbole at all, is it Royston.
But your reply was.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 01:59 AM

Who wants the double millenium?
My gift to you.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Mar 10 - 02:18 AM

Oh, hell!! Why not!??

Don Firth