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BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:22 AM Not one post stood up to a moment's scrutiny. The people who know tell us it is not going to break out of the high risk groups and cause a general epidemic. You can not deny that. You were wrong and you are still wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 02:55 AM Quotes from your BMJ piece. Although the number of people becoming infected with HIV through heterosexual intercourse in the United Kingdom is rising steadily, most of the overall rise in HIV diagnoses among heterosexuals is among people who originate from and were infected abroad, mainly in Africa. Numbers of HIV infections acquired through heterosexual intercourse in the United Kingdom have risen in recent years but continue to represent a small proportion (< 10%) of all HIV infections diagnosed in heterosexuals in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland each year |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 03:02 AM From your new strain piece. Transmission in heterosexuals also progressed at a much slower rate than in homosexuals, the study finds, with only 2% occurring within the first 6 months of infection (25% in homosexuals). (Why might that be Royston?) While in the 1990s genetic characterisation of the virus in heterosexuals showed a predominance of subtype B - the most common form in the Americas, Australia, Europe, Japan, and Thailand - more recent studies find that there has been a shift. Most HIV cases these days in the heterosexual risk group in the UK are of the non-B subtype, 'indicating viruses originating among immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa,' the scientists state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 09:21 AM I'm stopping by here every now and again. In the event that Keith stops banging on about all the things on which we agree - mostly African straight HIV, probably won't be a generalised academic, etc etc etc and addresses some of the more recent issues, then there might be a further discussion to be had. We could try and draw him back to how he leapt around like an angry chimp laughing at me for advocating general and school-based education in spite of what de Cock was REPORTED AS SAYING. As he was reported in the article to have said - in summary - that general education and school-based education in the UK would not be beneficial, and was not reported making a comment anywhere about education in other places; so it follows that the CORRECTION which said "In all settings..." such programs and removal of stigma and other barriers are essential to HIV prevention, asserts his advocacy for these measures in the UK. You see, Keith, I will continue to read these stories and then apply my knowledge, intellect and experience to them and I will come to my own conclusions. You are too witless to do anything other than lap up the things that you like the sound of. Either that or you are a liar - you are intelligent enough to know that what you say is wrong, yet you say it anyway. On the BMJ piece, we all know what we agree on, Keith, no point you reposting it. What about the assertions that you don't like, but the BMJ make nonetheless? On the scientific paper from Edinburgh, I don't claim to understand the genetic heritage of HIV subtypes well enough to comment other than to say that the abstract and summaries are clear in talking about the operation of sexual networks as a driving factor in the disease and also variant subtypes in different networks of transmission. It is just an example of the complexity of the epidemic that you could have found, had you chosen to do. There are now so many points on the table over the last few days that you are ignoring in favour of repeating all the same stuff on which we have largely agreed. Until you calm down and get up to date, there isn't a lot of point to this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Feb 10 - 11:10 AM I really do not want "a further discussion." I only wanted to establish that there is no sign of AIDS breaking into the general population. First you thought it was, then yesterday you changed your mind and then changed it back again. De Cock. "Reported as saying" in capitals. Is that you suggesting he did not say those things? Say what you mean. I laughed last night at your about turns and posturing, but never about the value of education, which I am part of. I have told you I don't agree with stigmatising. You talk about me knowing what I say is wrong and being a liar. I have said nothing that is wrong and do not lie. That casual false indictment makes me bloody angry. You never give examples, because you can not. The BMJ piece just said what I have been saying. What is not to like? The Edinburgh research. Strains have evolved slightly differently in different places. The strain we in the West have mostly experienced. Heteros have been exposed and a few have caught it, but no epidemic. The African one has now arrived with our new communities, and local heteros will be exposed to it, but it is less virulent than the one that has already failed. I am taking a week off. Good luck with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 12:38 PM de Cock, by issuing corrections, tells us that he did not say those things or that he was misrepresented. Or that he subsequently thought he was wrong to say those things. In any event, I was right, you swallowed fallacy and laughed at me. Who's the fool? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 12 Feb 10 - 01:10 PM de Cock was also reported as saying that there had been no generalised epidemics outside sub-saharan Africa and that there would probably not be one anywhere else. You liked that a lot He then corrected that by saying actually there have been two other such epidemics and he made clear that preventing more of them required exactly the interventions that I described - including in this country - and for which you first mocked me and then said 'Honestly, Royston, I don't know' The edinburgh study, echoed my comments and de Cock's comments about transmission networks and their roles in defining who gets HIV and who doesn't, behaviours being - as they are - very similar. You mocked me for those assertions. The BMJ article asserts as I did, that as the number of carrier's here grows, so does the risk to all. You mocked me for asserting that. The BMJ article mirror's my view and de Cock's view that early and effective education and intervention is needed to avert a much bigger crisis in our country. For being so wrong about the role of behaviour in differentiating affected groups, about the risks to individuals in this country, about the measures needed to protect ourselves and care for our communities, about 'responsibility' for disease, for making overtly racist and homophobic statements (your 'behaviours' outburst), for supporting bigots and mocking people, not just me, that clearly always had a much better understanding of this subject than you, I would expect at least a little humility. Have a nice week off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:42 PM ""Yes it is and it is confined to their communities. There is no generalised epidemic. Just the high risk groups."" Pay attention Numbnuts! If it is UK ACQUIRED, they contracted it here. They did NOT bring it with them. It cannot, then, be the African strain. African immigrants do not necessarily confine their activities to their own closed communities. I worked for a disabled charity, which employed dozens of African carers, and they were out in the mainstream of social interaction. Your blythe assumption that, because something hasn't happened yet, it can't happen, is mind blowing in its naive stupidity. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Keith A Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:54 PM Don, if you read any of those reports on the Africam communities that I linked to, you would see that the infection is spreading within those new communities. You would see that dangerous patterns of behaviour are being practiced. Massive intervention is going on that will help to bring it down. Mercifully, it is not spreading outside those communities. The new UK infections are within those communities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:00 PM How devious to try to change de Cock's opinions to suit yours. He foolishly said no heterosexual infection outside Africa meaning not in developed countries. He should have remembered that other third world countries like Haiti have very similar epidemics. That is what he corrected. Read his correction. He does not correct his statements about the developed countries. If you say that he corrected those statements, that is a lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:08 PM Here is the correction again. Ther is no change in the statements about developed countries. We wish to clarify misinterpretations concerning WHO and UNAIDS' positions on the status of the AIDS epidemic in recent media articles. The story in the Independent on Sunday titled: "Threat of world AIDS pandemic among heterosexuals is over, report admits" contained a few seriously misleading statements that have led to inferences and conclusions that bear no relation to the highly complex realities of the HIV epidemic. First and foremost, the global HIV epidemic is by no means over. At the end of 2007, an estimated 33.2 million people were living with HIV. Some 2.5 million people became newly infected that year, and 2.1 million died of AIDS. AIDS remains the leading cause of death in Africa. Worldwide, HIV is still largely driven by heterosexual transmission. The majority of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa occur through heterosexual transmission. We have also seen a number of generalized epidemics outside of Africa, such as in Haiti and Papua New Guinea. Heterosexual transmission continues to drive the epidemic among sex workers, their clients, and their clients' partners. In addition, prisoners, injecting drug users, as well as men who have sex with men, may also engage in heterosexual relationships. In sub-Saharan Africa almost 60% of adults living with HIV were women, 48% in the Caribbean. HIV prevention and treatment efforts are showing results. Building on these successes will require improved outreach to populations most at risk with evidence-informed approaches based on local HIV epidemiology — an approach we call "knowing your epidemic." In all settings, a supportive environment is required, free from stigma and discrimination, legal barriers or other obstacles that prevent access to services. AIDS awareness campaigns and school-based efforts are essential to promote sexual and reproductive health, ensuring young people have the knowledge and ability to protect themselves against sexually transmitted diseases, and teenage pregnancy. UNAIDS and WHO remain focused on strengthening monitoring of the epidemic to refine responses further and to recognize changes in transmission patterns should they occur. To recap: AIDS remains the leading infectious disease challenge in global health. To suggest otherwise is irresponsible and misleading. I hate your dishonesty. In the end, no one else is reading any of our shit so I suppose it does not matter. It is all yours for now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,keith Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:10 PM last 2 posts were me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 14 Feb 10 - 08:24 AM ""The new UK infections are within those communities."" Now that is a barefaced LIE! You cannot possibly know what proportion of new infections are within which communities, and to claim that there are no infections of heterosexuals other than those of Africans is a)bloody nonsense, and b)a cynical, and dishonest attempt to apportion blame for the whole to African immigrants. With each post your agenda becomes more clear. Royston has you pegged! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 14 Feb 10 - 09:33 AM Keith: "I hate your dishonesty" That's a bit rich coming from you. de Cock was REPORTED as saying that there was no point teaching HIV prevention in Schools in London. He didn't make any comment about education or outreach anywhere else. So when the correction was made: "In all settings, a supportive environment is required, free from stigma and discrimination, legal barriers or other obstacles that prevent access to services. AIDS awareness campaigns and school-based efforts are essential to promote sexual and reproductive health, ensuring young people have the knowledge and ability to protect themselves against sexually transmitted diseases, and teenage pregnancy." What other sort of education and outreach related comment was he correcting - other than the one about London? Hmm? You're either so thick that you can't read. Or you're a liar. You clear that one up for us, why don't you? My assertions about effective prevention measures are stated by de Cock as being the correct ones IN ALL SETTINGS You mocked me. You were, and are, the fool. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Feb 10 - 03:34 AM Don False: "Yes, GfS, I met two homosexuals who insisted that they had been "cured." But it was plainly obvious to those who knew them much better than I did that the form their "cure" had taken was that they were completely abstaining from sexual activity of any kind, and that they were showing signs of anxiety, depression, and hostility. I was told that they had been reasonably happy....." You're so misleading, and not even good at it! "You were told..."..by who? Did you talk to them? NO! I would think that as much as you are a champion of crackpot politicized 'science' that you'd check it out yourself....NOOO! You also lied and waged a campaign against me and my posts, based on a lie! The lie being homosexuals were 'genetic' and couldn't change over..and the whole time you knew OF two, but just never checked out the story yourself....BECAUSE IT WAS CONTRARY TO YOUR BULLSHIT POLITICS! Which by the way, is, was, or never will be for the interest of individuals..just the masses, who are deceived at distance, ..so you're oblivious to any of their real needs! "As to the rest of your most recent post, once again I invite people here who have the stomach for it to go back over our posts in both threads and see for themselves who said what." PLEASE DO!...and you will plainly see that you twist words, quote things out of context, accuse people of bigotry, and hatred, misrepresent what I've said..then 'comment' on your misrepresentation! You've LIED too many times, and now this time it's out front. You espoused crap, that you knew wasn't even true!....Go back,..read it for yourself! I'm not wasting my time trying to find solutions for lies. You and your whole trip is bogus...and its all there for anyone to check it out! Every 'theory', every excuse, every contention has been completely blown out of the water, and you've very adequately discredited yourself. Remember, you knew of two the whole time!...but never asked them anything!...and certainly not lifting a fucking finger to offer anything for their well-being...because you, like you 'cause' don't give a shit about people! If you had been honest, we could have had some GREAT stuff going on. Now as it is, everyone got to witness a phony activist being exposed! See YA! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 15 Feb 10 - 06:09 PM Well, well, well, GfS! That was quite a little temper tantrum! As I have already written (definitely establishing that you read very selectively, assuming that you read at all), that I was told about these two, whom I had met on a couple of occasions, by people who knew them very well and had known them for a long time. [Shall I retype that in all caps, or can you actually read it as is? If so, read it again!] Cured? No flippin' way! From a post of mine on the Prop 8 thread: Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage BanGfS, the scientific information that I have been posting regarding genetic research on sexual orientation is the latest, and it is sound. You just don't like it, hence your tendency to foam at the mouth. And I have been honest enough to acknowledge that the research into the genetic basis of same-sex orientation is ongoing and so far not totally conclusive, although all indications are that this is the case. You, on the other hand, are so prejudiced and closed minded that you keep saying, flatly and absolutely, that sexual orientation is strictly a matter of choice—nothing more than a matter of a person flipping a coin. My "bullshit politics," as you so rationally and calmly put it, is concerned with the civil rights of a minority—and to my opposition to the matter indicated by the title of this thread. Not just the Ugandans refusal to grant the civil rights of this minority, but thier intention to pass laws mandating that homosexuals be imprisioned and executed! And this is being promulgated and supported by at least one American fundamentalist religious group, "The Family," using spurious information published by Richard Cohen, the snake-oil saleman of whom you think so highly! Lest we forget, Adolf Hitler ALSO advocated the execution of homosexuals. As to the matter of your father. One this thread, you said that your father died of a heart attack. Perhaps so. But this is the post on the Prop 8 thread about your father. It's a few paragraphs down. GfS in italics. My comments in brackets. Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban Further. There is this tidbit also posted by GfS on the Prop 8 thread: To answer your question, I'm a musician, sound engineer, screenplay author, and composed a soundtrack for a film, and when I originally stumbled upon this forum, which was by sheer happenstance, I found it extremely stimulating, and interesting. Being as I also am a marriage and family counselor, I was drawn into some of the discussions, with a certain passion, if you will. My post explains my reasons for remaining a 'Guest' In addition, I have personal information on here, that is highly confidential. Hope that answers your question. Re-read my last post, if you need clarification. Thank you.You know, GfS, you remind me a lot of a recurring character on the Canadian comedy, "The Red Green Show. His name was Hap Shaughnessy. The big difference between you and Hap is that Hap is funny! Considering the childish temper tantrums, especially evident in your recent posts, you appear to have the emotional maturity of a four-year-old. Rather than giving counseling (if, indeed, you actually are a counselor), you appear to be drastically in need of competent counseling. I really don't think it would be possible to have a mature and productive discussion with you until such time as you get your act together, start respecting the truth instead of clinging desperately to the way you would like things to be, and stop screaming and whining when it's pointed out to you that they are not. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:04 AM GfS, since you are thicker than jug of molasses that's been buried in a glacier in the Antarctic for a couple of centuries, let me clarify what I mean when I said, "I was told about these two, whom I had met on a couple of occasions, by people who knew them very well. . . ." The occasions upon which I met them (one man and one woman) were at a number of congregational meetings of Central Lutheran Church, when Central was in the process of deciding to adopt the "Affirmation of Welcome" statement, which includes welcoming people of different sexual orientations as well as those of different races, nationalities, and economic classes. These two were not members of Central. But they came to the meetings to argue against including the "gender orientation" clause in the Affirmation. Apparently, this was what they did: go to different churches in the process of adopting the "Affirmation of Welcome" as written and try to talk them out of accepting the gender orientation clause. Since these were meetings of the Central Lutheral Church congregation, and these two people were not members of the church, the fact that they were being so vocal about Central's policies raise a lot of questions as to who they were and why were they there, trying to influence the policies of a church to which they did not belong. Their claim was that they had been homosexual, but when their church discovered this, their church insisted that they submit themselves to both psychological and religious counseling and, with the help of the church, be "cured of their perversion." They claimed that they had, indeed, been cured, and that churches in general, rather than welcoming "perverts," should deny them admission until they have been cured. Very "Christian" of them! I talked with them quite a bit and I made my own evaluation. Then, I (and others in the congregation) talked to several other people who had been friends and acquaintances of these two since well before they had "taken the cure." And they described how these two, and their lives, had changed—not, everyone agreed, for the better. Where they had been leading reasonably happy lives up until their church (quite conservative and leaning toward fundamentalism) learned of their private lives and jumped on their cases. We were told that after being talked into "taking the cure," they had become two obviously unhappy and angry people. Their main method of renouncing their "perversion" was to give up sex entirely. No, I do not know them personally, but I had a very good chance to assess their personalities and attitudes face to face. Not people I would care to associate with. Too hostile. Not to me in particular, but to life in general. I thought I would explain that further, GfS, before you go off on another toot and make up yet another whole fantasy novel about me, as you seem to have a penchant for doing. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Ebbie Date: 16 Feb 10 - 01:14 AM Just to make absolutely SURE that Don Firth wasn't lying through his fingers I went to the Prop 8 thread, did a search and GUESS WHAT, GfS! He told the truth! YOU lied! Suddenly I feel sorry for you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before?? As for your father, being molested, having six kids, then turning homosexual....maybe he should have tried the counseling, that you seem to deny the rights of homosexuals to be able to get?...even heterosexual rape victims get counseling. Your 'rap' still falls down! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: KB in Iowa Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:49 PM Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before?? As for your father, being molested, having six kids, then turning homosexual....maybe he should have tried the counseling, that you seem to deny the rights of homosexuals to be able to get?...even heterosexual rape victims get counseling. Your 'rap' still falls down! GfS Don was quoting you there GfS, not talking abut his own experience. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Ebbie Date: 16 Feb 10 - 12:52 PM I am rapidly feeling less sorry for you, GfS. You very clearly said in the Prop 8 thread in May 2009: "By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother." ******************* "Not to get to personal, but to squash any type of statement about my father already being gay, I'll explain this. He was molested when he was a child by his father and uncle. He learned how to deal with the shame and pain of this act by storing it inside and never talking about it. This, undoubtedly, led to prolonged psychological effects that plagued him and eventually chose him to choose his lifestyle." You were NOT postulating on anyone else's experience, you wrote in the first person. If you cannot see that, I think that you deserve no more attention from anybody. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: frogprince Date: 16 Feb 10 - 01:09 PM It's been apparent for some time that what we have in Gfs is one of two things, or some combination of both. Either he(?) has unraveled mentally to the point of losing all grasp on reality, or he(?) has such a vile, perverse sense of "humor" that he regulary takes great pleasure in spouting absolutely anything in the hopes of making other people miserable. I suggest that we've gone well past the point at which we should have switched into ignore mode. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 03:20 PM GUEST from SLIME— No, I'll leave that alone! I'm not going to sink to your level. I don't think I could get that low anyway. It was not my father who sired six children and then "decided" to become a homosexual. My father sired three children—two girls (both of whom became national figure skating champions, by the way) and me. And he did not become a homosexual, nor have any of my relatives. GfS, I was quoting from what YOU posted on the Prop 8 thread, on the 6th of May, 2009, at 12:38 a.m., in which you said: By the way, all of those who think that I have no experience with this, and that I'm just spouting from no experience with this issue, you should know that my father CHOSE a homosexual lifestyle after he had 6 children with my mother.YOU said that, GfS. Not me. YOU!! GfS, you are either a wind-up artist of the most contemptible sort, or you have completely lost touch with the real world and are running in circles spouting gibberish. In either case, you twist what people say all out of shape, either because you have the mind of a snake, or you are totally incapable of understanding simple concepts. There is no point in arguing with you any further. KB in Iowa, Ebbie, and Frogprince are right. GET HELP!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 16 Feb 10 - 05:35 PM "wind-up artist" = troll Been that way for, oh, 1770 posts? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 16 Feb 10 - 09:05 PM GfS: "Donny, Posting one of your earlier posts from the 'Prop 6' thread is silly! Why don't you post the one you posted about the study in Massachusetts, that discarded all the other studies, and excuses, that you posted before??" Only my mother called me "Donny," and that was many decades ago. You'd look pretty silly in a dress and apron, GfS. No, I'll take that back. You might look quite chic. Now—the reason I'm back is to ask you just which post about what study in Massachusetts that I allegedly posted in the Prop 8 thread (not "Prop 6")?? I've done a "Find" search on the Prop 8 thread, and the only mentions I find of Massachusetts is that Massachusetts is one of the first three states (along with Connecticut and Iowa) to legally recognize gay marriage. I had to search the Prop 8 thread to find the post where you revealed that most interesting story about your father (which you apparently forgot about and tried to claim was my story), so here's your chance to return the favor. Get off your butt and find the post you're talking about, or just admit that you are a hopeless Nebbish. The problem that almost invariably trips up liars, whether pathological liars or those who just lie as a hobby, is that they invariably forget what all lies they've told and sooner or later (usually sooner) they start telling conflicting stories (as you did) and wind up looking like total idiots. That's one of the side effects of eating a lot of lead paint chips when you're a toddler. Don Firth P. S. I don't think he'll be back, folks. Once again, he's running toward the horizon with his ass on fire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:00 AM Now that is a barefaced LIE! You cannot possibly know what proportion of new infections are within which communities, and to claim that there are no infections of heterosexuals other than those of Africans is a)bloody nonsense, and b)a cynical, and dishonest attempt to apportion blame for the whole to African immigrants. Accused of a lie in capitals!. I had better reply. Don T, we all here have discussed the figures for hetero infection. Since the start of AIDS here, they have been comparable with lightning strike. It did not spread. A few years ago there was a slight upturn, that coincided with the arrival of large numbers from a well recognised high risk group. I have not said that the connection was real, I have linked to highly authoratative reports that describe the spread of infection within that new group. The old infection could not spread among heterosexuals. Royston has provided evidence that the new strain is LESS virulent. No lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:06 AM Royston, I am part of AIDS education in schools. I have never spoke against it. De cock wrote as if there was only the African epidemic, ignoring the plight of countries like Haiti and New Guinea. He needed to correct that. He did not withdraw what he said about industrialised countries, nor the named countries he said would have no generalised epidemic. If you say he did, that is dishonest. You always accuse me of that but never supply an example. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Ebbie Date: 21 Feb 10 - 11:25 AM After that last GfS bit I sincerely hoped this thread was dead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 10 - 11:43 AM Sorry Ebbie, but I have to challenge when accused of "bare faced LIE" and dishonesty. Would you let that go? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 21 Feb 10 - 11:57 AM I too was hoping it had withered on the vine. But at least it now seems to be sponsored by Ugg Boots !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 21 Feb 10 - 03:29 PM I, too, was hoping that this thread had folded its tent and slunk away. Okay, one question: Just exactly where is this haggle over statistics leading? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Feb 10 - 07:56 PM Well, I see someone pulled up the Prop 8 thread...still didn't find the post in question Also, it shows me as the last post....frankly, I don't know what the hell you're all squawking about. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Feb 10 - 08:33 PM Gosh, I can't find that post...refresh my memory....my father was NOT ever a homosexual....let me see if that post is even there...or show me. (or someone used my name)..... Actually, I think this is just one of your antics. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:22 PM Don Firth, I am not leading the argument anywhere. I came in to it because Royston was saying things that I knew to be wrong, i.e. that AIDS was breaking out of the high risk groups and into the general population of this country. When I politely corrected him I was subject to vile abuse and called racist and bigot. I was not and am not prepared to let that slander stand, because I have been correct and truthful all the time. My position all along has simply been that there was and is no significant infection outside the high risk groups in UK. Every time it is denied I provide evidence to prove that it is true. If Royston and Don T stop accusing me of dishonesty I can stop proving myself right and them wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:47 PM GfS, I gave the reference to your post—where you say what you now claim you never said—in my post, here, of 02 May 09 - 07:01 p.m. But since I'm always glad to help the lost and bewildered, I will post it again for you: Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage BanGo read what you wrote there, GfS. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 21 Feb 10 - 10:19 PM In fact, GfS, let me cut-and-paste it for you here: Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage BanBut go to the Prop 8 thread and read it for yourself. Don Firth P. S. By the way, YOU are the one who resurrected the Prop 8 thread. By posting on it again, you brought it to the top of the page. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Feb 10 - 11:17 PM Yes, I did bring up the 'Prop 8' thread again, by posting my reply on it, by mistake, while searching the post, you alleged, as mine. I never wrote the post you are referring to. Methinks it was done by one of those who you stirred up...maybe not, but it was not authored, nor posted by me. Thanks for your 'concern'. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Feb 10 - 02:12 PM GfS, considering that the position expressed in the post in question was consistent with the kind of things you had written before, and also considering that you let it stand for over 10 months and didn't challenge it, the fact that you're challenging it now, when it has become a little inconvenient for you, has all the credibility of "The dog ate my homework." If you REALLY want to establish that you indeed did NOT write that post and that someone else did using your moniker, I suggest that you contact the mud-elfs and have them check it. Every computer on the internet has an IP number, a series of numbers that is unique to that computer alone. And I'm sure the mud-elves have access to those numbers and can identify what computer a message is coming from because they are able to block certain computers from getting into the Mudcat site. Indeed, there are a number of people who have behaved so badly that they have been blocked and can no longer post to Mudcat. And the mud-elves would have to be able to determine what computer a particular post is coming from to be able to do that. The unique IP number will identify a specific computer. A comparison of the computer signature on that message with that on the other messages you have posted will either verify what you now claim or it will establish that it did come from your computer. And if it is not from your computer, it can identify which computer it did come from. Don Firth P. S. No "antic" of mine, GfS. I'm not so naïve as to believe that I can surf the net with anonymity. No matter what kind of pseudonym one uses, every message one posts comes with a clear "license plate" on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 22 Feb 10 - 05:24 PM Interesting article in today's Times. "The global Aids epidemic could be contained within just five years by testing everybody in high-risk regions and immediately treating all those who are found to be HIV positive, according to a leading scientist. In the absence of a vaccine, an aggressive treatment programme is the first promising way of controlling a condition that affects 33 million people worldwide and kills 2.1 million every year, he said. It also has the potential to halve tuberculosis infections associated with HIV and Aids. Two randomised trials of universal testing and treatment are to begin in South Africa shortly, and the World Health Organisation (WHO) has indicated that it will back the strategy if they prove successful. The approach is also supported by Anthony Fauci, the influential scientist who leads the US National Institute on Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which is funding further trials in areas of Washington DC and New York where HIV is widespread. Projects in Kenya, Botswana and Malawi have shown that regular testing and good compliance are achievable in Africa. "Compliance in Africa is actually much better than in developed countries, because in the latter HIV tends to affect intravenous drug users and other marginalised groups, whereas the victims in Africa are just poor," Dr Williams said." Dont you just LOVE the PC press " Compliance in Africa is actually much better than in developed countries, because in the latter HIV tends to affect intravenous drug users and other marginalised groups," "Other marginalised groups" contains the Male homosexual demographic the highest of any and about four times higher than IDU's |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 22 Feb 10 - 05:32 PM I wonder why they didn't get a mention? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Feb 10 - 07:23 PM How about some actual figures, Ake? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 22 Feb 10 - 08:51 PM ""_Accused of a lie in capitals!. I had better reply. Don T, we all here have discussed the figures for hetero infection. Since the start of AIDS here, they have been comparable with lightning strike. It did not spread. A few years ago there was a slight upturn, that coincided with the arrival of large numbers from a well recognised high risk group. I have not said that the connection was real, I have linked to highly authoratative reports that describe the spread of infection within that new group. The old infection could not spread among heterosexuals. Royston has provided evidence that the new strain is LESS virulent. No lie."" ______________________________________________________________________ What you actually posted was:- ""Don, if you read any of those reports on the Africam communities that I linked to, you would see that the infection is spreading within those new communities. You would see that dangerous patterns of behaviour are being practiced. Massive intervention is going on that will help to bring it down. Mercifully, it is not spreading outside those communities. The new UK infections are within those communities."" Would you now like to point out to me where I have falsely accused you? You did state clearly that the new UK infections are within those communities. The tenor of your post was undoubtedly that there were NO new UK infections outside of those communities. You could not possibly believe such a patently ridiculous idea, and therefor you lied!.........in CAPITALS! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Feb 10 - 09:51 PM Don, the post isn't mine...and it is COMPLETELY out of context to any discussion we were having..,if you even noticed. It was just another, in a series of snipes. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 22 Feb 10 - 11:33 PM Snipes from whom, GfS? Re-examining the post and noting that it's paragraphed (and you often run everything together in one long paragraph), and that the punctuation was grammatically accurate (where you usually fire commas at the page with a shotgun and often tend to lean on the exclamation point or question mark key for a few minutes at at time, especially when you are tooted up), I am willing to accept the possibility that you may not have written that particular post. However--that post was supporting your position and the comments about your father were by way of trying to support that position, so there's plenty of good reason to assume that you indeed did write it. And either lied about your father in an attempt to manufacture evidence--or that it is, in fact, true and you let something slip that you later regretted. One of the advantages of registering as a Mudcat member and picking a name rather than remaining as a GUEST, is that you have a consistent name without the "GUEST" prefix, and the only way anyone can post something under your name is as a "GUEST." Also, you can PM (send private messages) to other Mudcat members, and they to you. I have been a member since fall of 1999 and I have always used my own name. And NO, I do not EVER post masquerading as someone else if that's what you're thinking. Never have, never will. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Feb 10 - 11:48 PM Look, asshole..the post isn't mine! Stop spinning it, as you always do...to be ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR FUCKING LIES! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 23 Feb 10 - 12:21 AM Now, I ask you folks. Is that a rational response to what I just posted? GfS, you're showing signs of coming apart emotionally. Get a grip!! Don Firth P. S. Over and out. I won't be back this evening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 10 - 01:48 AM DON T, there were NO new UK infections outside of those communities. You could not possibly believe such a patently ridiculous idea, and therefor you lied!.........in CAPITALS! Don, you could not possibly believe I meant actually ZERO! How long have we been talking about the few hundred a year before Lox's Dogleg? In 2008 there were about 300 white hetero home infections and about 90 other hetero home infections not counting Africans. NO CHANGE! That level is down with rare diseases only medicos have ever heard of. Miniscule, but not actually ZERO Don! Royston has been telling us from the start that dangerous behaviour by heteros had reulted in a dramatic rise in hetero infection. I do not say that he LIED, but the only other explanation is ignorance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:14 AM OK, Ok, calm down. If you need me to verify authorship of a post, give me the date, time, thread name, and the posted user name. -Joe- joe@mudcat.org |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:40 AM You know that bit in a lot of horror films when you think think the monster is dead But it comes BACK And BACK And BACK AGAIN........... This thread is, for Mudcat, that monster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 23 Feb 10 - 03:48 AM Oh, and 1800. (Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.) |
