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BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??

GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 Jun 11 - 10:25 AM
Don Firth 11 Jun 11 - 01:37 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 Jun 11 - 01:20 AM
Don Firth 11 Jun 11 - 12:59 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Jun 11 - 11:27 PM
Don Firth 10 Jun 11 - 11:23 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Jun 11 - 10:20 PM
Sawzaw 10 Jun 11 - 09:29 PM
Greg F. 10 Jun 11 - 09:21 PM
Joe Offer 10 Jun 11 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Jun 11 - 06:38 PM
Don Firth 10 Jun 11 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Jun 11 - 05:06 PM
Don Firth 10 Jun 11 - 02:43 PM
John P 10 Jun 11 - 12:21 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM
Don Firth 09 Jun 11 - 06:48 PM
John P 09 Jun 11 - 09:18 AM
Don Firth 09 Jun 11 - 01:31 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Jun 11 - 12:56 AM
Don Firth 09 Jun 11 - 12:44 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Jun 11 - 12:35 AM
Joe Offer 09 Jun 11 - 12:20 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Jun 11 - 12:05 AM
Don Firth 08 Jun 11 - 11:41 PM
Don Firth 08 Jun 11 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Jun 11 - 11:19 PM
Bobert 08 Jun 11 - 10:12 PM
John P 08 Jun 11 - 09:55 PM
Bobert 08 Jun 11 - 09:17 PM
Bobert 08 Jun 11 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Jun 11 - 06:32 PM
John P 08 Jun 11 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM
John P 08 Jun 11 - 12:51 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Jun 11 - 05:12 AM
Sawzaw 08 Jun 11 - 01:23 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 07 Jun 11 - 09:35 PM
GUEST 07 Jun 11 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,TIA 07 Jun 11 - 12:58 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 Jun 11 - 09:31 PM
Bobert 06 Jun 11 - 03:17 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 Jun 11 - 02:20 AM
Sawzaw 06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM
Greg F. 04 Jun 11 - 08:45 AM
Don Firth 03 Jun 11 - 11:39 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 03 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM
Don Firth 03 Jun 11 - 04:51 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM

Ya. might learn something, of interest!..Love to see the 'list'


Not TOO related......but then.....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 10:25 AM

Don: "P. S. "Scuse me, please. Past my bedthime. ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......"

Hours ago!

wink!
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 01:37 AM

GfS, any show explaining your feats of "slight of hand," I'm afraid, would bomb. The techniques you use are already far too obvious to all and sundry.

(Or should that be called "slight of mind?")

Don Firth

P. S. "Scuse me, please. Past my bedthime. ....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 01:20 AM

Don: "I'm not much of a dancer. Never was."

Maybe you just never had the opportunity to have a great instructor point out when you are tripping over your own feet!

I was going to bring on the 'Mudcat Vaudeville Magic Show', and let you explain the slight of hand magic tricks to our beloved audience...but that might be in tomorrow's gig!
Stay tuned! Don will have full reign to explain all the tricks of mystical prestidigitation from 'The World of Sanity', and he will tell you how I do it!..I thought that this, or the next post was going to take us there. This should be a real fun treat for the whole family!

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen..Come one, come all. For the first time on any stage on earth, a Democratic liberal 'activist' will make sense out of Sanity!...(That should be a magic show, all by itself!)

Go for it!..Just give me the word.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 12:59 AM

I'm not much of a dancer. Never was.

But I read a lot. And pay attention to what's going on in the world. And think.

Bed time. Ta ta.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 11:27 PM

Are your feet tired? You must be dizzy, too!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 11:23 PM

Amazing! I haven't seen such tap dancing since Fred Astaire's last movie!!

Hopeless!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 10:20 PM

Joe, First of all, I didn't 're-list' my list of lies, but copied and pasted Don's, so I could, as requested, answer them.
Second, As I said when I listed my original list of lies, given to me by someone, far more 'left' and 'progressive' than Don, I said, in that post, that some of the 'reversals'(if you will), I was glad, that they happened...instead of what he originally said, when he was bullshitting the electorate.
Third, and this one is for Don, #'s 7&14, you go on to 'blame' Congress...That's bullshit! The Democratic Congress was a huge majority at the time, Don't you remember?..They could do ANYTHING that they wanted....and they did.

To Sawzaw, Sawzaw: "Bobert goes to such great lengths to avoid answering questions."

He ain't the only one!!!!!!!! Most of them employ the same avoidance tactic...but they are NOT fooling anyone. They are, in fact, as Greg says, "..reach a reasoned accommodation with a lunatic- but nice try."..others of like minded, denial.

Look, I'm not down on just Obama. This shit has been going on through several administrations...so tightly, that one has to stretch logic into a pretzel, to even imagine that it's not orchestrated, from the 'higher ups' to whom they take their marching orders...(and money)...This is, and has been true, with the 'Republicans' as well as the 'Democrats'. I maintain, that BOTH of them are NOT representing us, or even 'looking out' for the well-being, of our country, and just as soon shred the Constitution up to even smaller bits of confetti, than they both have.The America we once knew, is just an obstacle, to their 'clients'!!!

GfS

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 09:29 PM

"Just because you have found another rightie to buddy up with in GfinS it doesn't change the fact that I have answered your questions"

Bobert goes to such great lengths to avoid answering questions.

When all else fails, he keeps repeating over and over that he answered it. Then comes accusations of bullying, stalking, insanity, anything other than answering the question. This is how Bobert defends his "facts".

Huff Puff Blow Blow Blow

Bobert has never answered the question of who said "So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out???"

The only answer I have seen is "Ive heard that" From whom Bobert?

You are the one that made up that racist, hateful statement. It is obvious because it begins refers to "righties".

Are you saying that a "rightie" asked the question?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 09:21 PM

Joe, you can't reach a reasoned accommodation with a lunatic- but nice try.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 09:07 PM

Gees.
GfS felt the compulsion to post his list of so-called "lies" yet again. Well, let me tell you about those so-called "lies" - I don't think his positions during the campaign were as ironclad as your biased editing makes them out to be. Certainly, Mr. Obama has moderated his stance since he confronted the reality of serving as President of an ideologically-diverse republic. He has tried to take even your point of view into consideration. Would you want him to do otherwise?
Would you?

Do we want a President who attempts to serve ALL of the people, or should he insist on serving only those who share his ideology?
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 06:38 PM

1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
       himself.

    What do you mean by "outside money," and who did he take it from? Martians?

No, Don, and quit trying to be pretentious. He was only going to use money allotted by the government, not by 'private'(read: 'Corporate') contributions.

A 'reversal'? ..No, he lied!
.....................................................
    2. Transparency.

    That's pretty vague. What do you mean by "transparency?"

What do you think I mean??..Again, you avoid having to state the obvious. This guy has done most everything AWAY from being transparent!

He Lied!
..................................................................
    3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.

    There are lobbyists and lobbyists. Emissaries with a valise full of money from fat-cats to buy the favors of politicians are called "lobbyists." Private citizens who merely buttonhole a politician and call his attention to a concern—but have no money to offer—are ALSO called "lobbyists." Which cabinet members are you referring to and who have they lobbied for?

What a FUCKING SPIN!! Here, let me 'help' you:...Subject: RE: BS: Lying Bastards of the Year awards
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 11:19 PM

He lied!

.............................................................

    4. Gitmo.

    On-going problem started by Bush. What exactly is Obama supposed to do about it. Close it? Simply release suspected terrorists? If you have a solution to that situation, maybe you'd better write Obama a letter and tell him what it is.

He said he was going to close it, during his campaign. He didn't. He lied!
...................................................
    5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.

    History lesson, GfS: Afghanistan was invaded during the Bush administration. Remember? You want to blame that on Obama? So do the Republicans.

Add Libya, as well. Obama is AN EXTENSION of BUSH and his policies!..What are you?..Blind??
....................................................
    6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.

    HE didn't extend the tax cuts, Congress did. Remember?

He compromised, and signed it, didn't he...HE lied!
...................................
    7. Single payer health care plan.

    He sure gave it a shot. But Congress immediately went to work ripping it to shreds. Remember?

He compromised, and signed it, didn't he...HE lied!
...................................

    8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.

    Part of the health care plan he tried to put across. See above.
Big Pharma was catered to, by Obama, so were the insurance companies..Don't you remember????
....................................................

    9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
       cronies.

    When? And which "banker cronies?" Names? Institutions?

The Bankers, and multi-nationals, that's who!....Were the funds used to start jobs?..Here, let me refresh your memory:..""From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 May 11 - 10:56 PM

Two headlines on the same paper today: "FEMA faces shortfall on funds for tornado victims"

"Obama administration approves $34 million bonus for six Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae execs."

Go figure!!!"

AND:....
READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH!!...more if you want too!

He lied!
.....................................

    10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.

    One does one's damndest, but one doesn't always succeed. Things like unemployment rates and other things economic generally depend on circumstances beyond one's control. To say that one "intends to" or "will try to" and then for various reasons not be able to does NOT make one a "liar."

See above! (#9)
...................................
    11.Military tribunals.

    What about them? He's had opposition on all sides on that one, too... They're still here, aren't they? He lied!..Even though, personally, I'm more in favor of them, than civil trials for his terrorist buds.
......................................

    12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
       it's authors.)

    It may very well have been a wise move under the circumstances. I don't know for sure. Neither do you.

If he said he would repeal it, and didn't, that's called a lie!. Being as Biden was one of the chief authors, of it, I'm sure he NEVER was intending to repeal it!
He lied!
.......................................

    13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
       the country. (again transparency)

    Again, you're very vague. Specifics, please. What are you talking about?

Are you pretending that you don't remember the accounts that the White House released of the OBL raid?..Here: Start at the top, and read the ever changing 'accounts' including his speech, to the nation! ....BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
He lied through his teeth!....remember he was armed, then unarmed, the shoved one of his ol' ladies at the seals, then didn't....etc. etc


    14.Reneged on energy policy.

    Tried again. BIG opposition. He's bucking BIG OIL and their cronies in Congress. Again, to try and not be able to because of the opposition doesn't mean one "reneged." Put the blame where it belongs!

"...He's bucking BIG OIL..."
Yeah, I remember 'bucking' BP!



    15.Claimed France was our closest ally.

    When did he do this? At a diplomatic dinner? What was he supposed to do, tell the French we hate their guts? Glad YOU'RE not in the ambassadorial corp. We'd be a war with everybody!

THE ONLY REASON YOU DON'T CLOCK THEM AS LIES, IS BECAUSE YOU STILL BELIEVE THEM!...SO, AS LONG AS YOU ARE DECEIVED, AND ARE MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM, TO YOU THEY 'SEEM' LIKE TRUTHS. That just shows how far off, and deluded you, and your ilk are!!!

STICK TO MUSIC!!...At least there is some sort of truth to base something you 'believe' in on!

BTW, have a nice day, as well!..(waving)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 05:14 PM

Okay, GfS, fasten your seat belt.
1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
   himself.

What do you mean by "outside money," and who did he take it from? Martians?

2. Transparency.

That's pretty vague. What do you mean by "transparency?"

3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.

There are lobbyists and lobbyists. Emissaries with a valise full of money from fat-cats to buy the favors of politicians are called "lobbyists." Private citizens who merely buttonhole a politician and call his attention to a concern—but have no money to offer—are ALSO called "lobbyists." Which cabinet members are you referring to and who have they lobbied for?

4. Gitmo.

On-going problem started by Bush. What exactly is Obama supposed to do about it. Close it? Simply release suspected terrorists? If you have a solution to that situation, maybe you'd better write Obama a letter and tell him what it is.

5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.

History lesson, GfS: Afghanistan was invaded during the Bush administration. Remember? You want to blame that on Obama? So do the Republicans.

6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.

HE didn't extend the tax cuts, Congress did. Remember?

7. Single payer health care plan.

He sure gave it a shot. But Congress immediately went to work ripping it to shreds. Remember?

8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.

Part of the health care plan he tried to put across. See above.

9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
   cronies.

When? And which "banker cronies?" Names? Institutions?

10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.

One does one's damndest, but one doesn't always succeed. Things like unemployment rates and other things economic generally depend on circumstances beyond one's control. To say that one "intends to" or "will try to" and then for various reasons not be able to does NOT make one a "liar."

11.Military tribunals.

What about them? He's had opposition on all sides on that one, too.

12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
   it's authors.)

It may very well have been a wise move under the circumstances. I don't know for sure. Neither do you.

13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
   the country. (again transparency)

Again, you're very vague. Specifics, please. What are you talking about?

14.Reneged on energy policy.

Tried again. BIG opposition. He's bucking BIG OIL and their cronies in Congress. Again, to try and not be able to because of the opposition doesn't mean one "reneged." Put the blame where it belongs!

15.Claimed France was our closest ally.

When did he do this? At a diplomatic dinner? What was he supposed to do, tell the French we hate their guts? Glad YOU'RE not in the ambassadorial corp. We'd be a war with everybody!

16...and he finished with the verbatim quote, "Go back, and look at
   his campaign promises..he broke about every one of them!"

DETAILS, please! That kind of general slam is right out of the mouth of Bill O'Reilly.
Sorry, no sale, GfS!

Have a nice day.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 05:06 PM

Don: "You can't negate the truth simply by feigning ignorance."

I wasn't..and quit making up stuff as to what I'm doing! THIS is what I said: "..and none of the stuff you listed in the Snopes deal even addressed my post and the list I gave you. What the hell was that about??"

Instead of addressing the Obama lies I posted, you post up a bunch of other stuff, and then go on about IT! It's a stupid ploy..and I will NOT play! Address what I posted, before we go on ANY longer!

John P, Re-read this one. You will find it strictly factual. Other than what is posted on this post, I feel NO NEED to further this topic! BTW, when I posted this before, nobody addressed it then!

Subject: RE: Equal Rights for Gay Marriage
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:33 AM

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 02:43 PM

GfS, you know bloody well what that is all about. And everything I said in that post is to the point and answers the questions. You can't negate the truth simply by feigning ignorance.

You can try to slither out from under the facts, but others here can read for themselves and make up their own minds.

Try dealing with the real world for a change. You may find it refreshing.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, if you think Snopes is wrong, let's see a point-by-point, alleged lie-by-alleged lie refutation of their refutation. You got the guts for a project like that?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 12:21 PM

It was a joke, son. And thank you for finally actually saying something relevant, with a minimum of insults. I would love to discuss these issues with you if you could bring yourself to engage in real back and forth and to talk about the issues instead of the people you're talking to. All my experience indicates that I don't have any reason to harbor any hopes of that in your case, however, other than the observation that folks do sometimes get better at communication.

Wanna give it a try? Here's the question: How do you reconcile a desire to protect and further the freedoms of individual American citizens with a desire for some of them to be treated differently when it comes to marriage and all the legal benefits that come with it? Any answer, just to avoid covering old ground, has to include the fact that it is unconstitutional for us to pass laws based on religion, the Constitution doesn't mention marriage, and it does guarantee us equal treatment under the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 02:14 AM

Well Don, I don't know what that was about...and none of the stuff you listed in the Snopes deal even addressed my post and the list I gave you. What the hell was that about?? Is this another one of your 'shift the subject' to rebut what you are talking about, so you can avoid answering what I was talking about??..However, I'll give you credit for conceding that Obama is falling down in a few areas.
As for the Fox news deal, in my other post, about the stimulus, I provided links to YouTube, and CBS news..not FOX, so I don't know what that was about. If Obama can't 'fix' a problem, he blames Bush. If a story comes out, that is true, that points out some lying on the part of Obama, even if it's from CBS, you blame FOX ??!!??..and you can't address it without having to concede that the story is true. What is that shit?
Instead of everybody blaming anything within 'blaming distance', why not look at the story, and ask yourself, "Is it true, or not?"...if its not, then it's a 'Republican spin'....if its true, then it's fox's spin. This is pretty asinine, don't you think?
As far as NATO, that is a slick cop out...but still unconstitutional. Whether we have an alliance or not, I don't think we just 'buddy up' with some folks, from other countries, to attack an 'enemy', when that 'enemy' hasn't attacked us, or a member country...and we still have to go to Congress.

As far as John P's assertion that he declares himself a 'winner' of something..I wasn't aware we were playing, or competing in anything...so, maybe he can award himself a cigar. Check and see if Bill Clinton's old one has dried out yet. He can award it to you...if Monica will give it back to him.(I heard she has if framed on her kitchen wall, over the stove). Next time, you want to get into some, well,... whatever you want to call it, see if you can send someone, in your behalf to represent your point of view....maybe even define it. But, I hope you got a little enjoyment, over feeling good about something....whatever that was (about). Some people even cheat at solitaire, but really, who cares?..BTW, when you play with yourself, do you ever 'win'?..(Notice, I didn't 'insult' you..just asked you questions.)

As far as Bush and Obama...same policies, different faces, to give the illusion that the 'liberals' are getting somewhere. Next it'll be the conservatives, as soon as they find a puppet to make a celebrity out of!

Once again, Good Morning Don.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 06:48 PM

As to the allegation that Barack Obama is a liar, I believe that is more than adequately dealt with
HERE.
As to violating the Constitution by circumventing Congress and going to war with Libya, let me remind you that this is not an American operation, it is a NATO operation, and the United States is a signatory to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. A few less-than-well-informed people have squawked that "the U. S. fired 110 Tomahawk missiles at Libyia." Not so! The Tomahawk missiles were U. S. made, but they were fired from British ships. France actually led the attack, and the part the United States played in this was to take out the Libyan air defenses. No "boots on the ground" and nothing attacked by the U. S. except Libyan military installations.

As a member of NATO and of the United Nations, the United States has obligations. Congress, after all, approved these memberships some decades back.

I know a number of hard-charging progressives who are unhappy with Obama, having expected that he would have accomplished far more on a progressive agenda than he has by now. But the rude fact is that he DOES have to go by the Constitution, and that precludes him from simply issuing edicts from the Oval Office. He must tell the Congress what he wants, they deliberate, and either do or do not do what it is he asks of them. Congress has shat all over practically everything he has requested and fought him every inch of the way.

That, sports fans, is the way it works. Or does not work!

That's why it's essential for citizens not to just focus on the Presidential candidate, but to choose and work hard for Senators and Congressional Representatives that will support and back the Presidential candidate of their choice.

I was hoping that Obama would get far more done than he has by now, especially a GOOD national health plan. There are countries all over the world (including Taiwan and Thailand) that have excellent health coverage for their citizens, and the fact that a country like the United States that prides itself on being a world leader should have such abysmally poor health care coverage for its citizens as we do is just bloody pathetic! And shameful! The fact that we no not is not Obama's fault. He tried! So put the onus where it really belongs!!

Yes, Obama tried. But Congress and great wads of health insurance company money fought him every inch of the way. And NOW the buggers want to take away Medicare as a budget-balancing measure! (Talk about "death panels", fer cryin' out loud!)

My problem with Obama is that he has wasted time and energy trying to build consensus and get cooperation from the very people who a hell-bent on seeing to it that he fails.

What Obama needs to do is to stop playing Mr. Nice Guy and kick some butt!!

Where is Harry Truman when we need him!??

Don Firth

P. S. There is much to be said for third parties. BUT—ONLY if the country ALSO has preferential voting. Ralph Nader managed to rob Al Gore of a sufficient percentage of votes that, had it not been for his splitting the vote, Gore would have had enough votes outright to go over the top against Bush (instead of handing it to Katherine Harris, who fed it to a conservative Supreme Court who decided in favor of Bush rather than authorizing the asked-for recount).   

You've got to keep up with this stuff, GfS!

By the way, if you don't know what preferemtial voting is, look it up. Several countries have it and it solves a lot of problems. Particularly Tweedledum and Tweedledee two-party systems.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 09:18 AM

OK, GfS, I declare myself the winner of the debate. You cannont, in fact, post without including insults. You can't make any response to the our rebuttals of the things we say. You lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 01:31 AM

No, I'm not disregarding them. But I've heard them all before. Mainly from Fox News--or rather, those who watch it a lot (but I note that you've already attempted to cover your rear on that one).

I was just wondering if you could come up with anything of substance, that hasn't already been cobbled up by Right Wing commentators. Guess not.

Nighty night. More tomorrow. My take on Obama.

Don (yawn) Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:56 AM

As per aforementioned, the list was from a 'very rigid progressive' friend of mine....who, BTW HATES Fox 'news'. The only one that I listed as my own, was the last one.

Sweet dreams...unless you went to bed already, in which case, Good Morning!

I knew you'd disregard them....Surely, you can't defend them...only blame someone else(Fox, in this case).

Bobert could only do as much, so at least you have company!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:44 AM

Sorry, GfS, but all of the "lies" you cite fall under what I outlined in my post of 08 Jun 11 - 11:41 p.m. as spurious. That sort of loose criterion for "lying" can be applied to every elected official in the country since the country's very beginning—and has, by political opponents. Pure flatus.

You sound like a commentator for Fox News. You're going to have to do a bit better than that.

Don Firth

P. S. I'll leave you the rest of the night to work it out. I'm going to bed.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:35 AM

Ol' Don Firth requested I post them again. I'm surprised he didn't just read them earlier in the thread.
I know it would 'normally' be unnecessary to post them repeatedly..it seems that no matter how many times something is said to them, they just don't get it.
BTW, You are the one who first requested them...but never responded. You didn't like them?

For what it's worth....neither did I. It's just too bad that there were so many flagrant lies to list...and there is still more.
All things considered, John McCain would have not been much of an improvement, either....and with heavy sadness, I'm depressed at the shape of our country, and am resigned to the fact, that it may well implode to a nation of chaos, financial and moral collapse, and eventually fall.

Sorry to end on a bummer note...but I'm feeling that this all may happen immanently....and all by design.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:20 AM

GfS - you posted your list of so-called "lies" once in this thread already. Do you have some cogent reason for posting them a second time, and in the same thread?

Reminds me of Pope John Paul II, who was often known to quote himself as verification of the information he was promoting.

Self-quotation may well be a symptom of advanced narcissism.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:05 AM

Don, You must have missed this one.
I suspect you'll disregard it, as well:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:53 AM

Everything is cool Don...thanks for the reconsideration. By the way, your interest in music IS your greatest weapon!

Sawzaw, Thank you for your post!!..Maybe some die hard 'liberals' will see that the Democrats are far to full of bullshit, to represent even them!!
Lying, corrupt bastards!

..and to Joe Offer, you asked me a little while ago, to list the lies that Obama has told. So rather than, use MY list, I have a VERY liberal/progressive friend, a HUGE bluegrass and folk supporter, what he thought. To say the least, he is very disillusioned about the present administration, and hates Republicans with a passion. (makes Bobert seen like a Cub Scout!). Though he and his 'other half' avidly resents Christians, Conservatives, Zionists, Multi-national banking concerns, and they run a small business, in a small town..I thought, 'What a great person to ask, for his list'! Though we have greatly disagreed with each other in the past, and they actively supported Obama, at present, they are pretty pissed off at him! Through all this time, of huge disagreements, we have remained good friends, because all in all, we know each others hearts..and they are good and sincere people....(though I've contended that they have also been sincerely wrong...but that's another issue)...here is his list, of lies, from the Obama administration:

1. Vowed NOT to take outside money for his campaign..but reversed
   himself.
2. Transparency.
3. Campaigned that NO lobbyists would have a cabinet position.
4. Gitmo.
5. Was going to decrease the Mid-East war, then invades Afghanistan.
6. Extended Bush tax cuts, when he said he wasn't.
7. Single payer health care plan.
8. Said he was going to go after big pharma.
9. Bailouts to stimulate the economy, but gave it to his banker
   cronies.
10.Unemployment would not be above 8%.
11.Military tribunals.
12.Being against the 'Patriot Act', then extends it. (Joe Biden one of
   it's authors.)
13.OBL details, and false press releases and lying in his speech to
   the country. (again transparency)
14.Reneged on energy policy.
15.Claimed France was our closest ally.
16...and he finished with the verbatim quote, "Go back, and look at
   his campaign promises..he broke about every one of them!"

Now, that being said, some of his broken promises, were OK with me, as to what he actually DID do...and once again, my friend and I still disagree..BUT, you asked me to list the lies, and so I did.
Jeez, my friend, for being so 'progressive' makes me look tame!...and I never thought of myself as being 'progressive'...but even back then, during the primaries, and my dated posts prove it, I clocked this guy as being a lying sack of 'manure'...and if you remember, I was calling him,'O-blabbo'.
Fair enough?
Shit, he even signed the guestbook at Westminster Abby with the wrong year!!...I think he is stuck in 2008, when he won the election...and that's ALL he cared about!(private observation)
..............................................AND:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 02:01 AM

Oh, and let me add one lie of Obama, of my own.
Swore to uphold the Constitution..then goes to war with Libya, and circumvents going to Congress!..at all!
As far as I'm concerned, that is an impeachable offense!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 11:41 PM

By the way, GfS, you're going to have to do better than merely quoting or linking to the "Obama lies" web sites. They all contain such allegations as his supposedly lying about his birth certificate and where he was born. That's long since been shot down in flames.

Or picking on things that he said he intended to do, but a Republican dominated Congress hasn't allowed him to do, or things that once he got into office he discovered that they simply would not be wise to do.

Every president has those kinds of problems, and to say that the president "lied" is nothing more than taking a cheap shot.

No sale on that sort of nonsense.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 11:20 PM

One thing I'd like to hear from GfS—and I've asked him a couple of times without his deigning to respond—is just exactly what lies has Barack Obama told that inspires him to insist on vociferously calling Obama a liar?

It's easy enough to make all kinds of wild accusations (quite a bit of that going around), but one really should have some reason for such charges beyond merely disliking the person one is accusing.

Substantiation with documentation, please.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 11:19 PM

So, i take it that you two think that anything outside of your stupidity is a 'rightie'.
It is your brand of brain-locked partisanship, that divides the country, when there was so much work to be done. Even James Carville, another southern Democrap, disagrees with you...but you just keep heading on.
You remind me of someone who programs a failure, to give themselves a reason to pick up the bottle again, to 'soothe' their hurt feelings of feeling sorry for themselves. even if they stop drinking, they are still addicted to the mind-set, of programming failures.
At present, we, as a nation are in dire straights, that go further back than Bush, the most recent scapegoat for Oblabbo, who had the inability to lead us out of anything, but instead just made it worse.
If you cannot see that, then you have an unbelievable ability to not see reality. This is NOT a party issue! Both parties are bought and paid for by the same people. This is becoming more evident with every day that passes. If Obama was half a decent 'leader' he would level with the American people, As it is now, you might start brushing up on your Mandarin.
We are on the verge of a financial collapse, and the other nitwit wants to discuss the difference between homosexuality and men and women getting married, and raising their own children. If you are so interested, and need to goad your imagination, I'm pretty sure Anthony Wiener's pictures are somewhere posted on the net. I'm sure once you find them, maybe your hands will be so busy, you might spare us from typing such idiocy!

OKAY, Now you can go back to your obsoleted Democrap 'talking points'...but really, you've already convinced a lot of people on here, that you cannot think for yourselves. Spare us the empty rhetoric, It's not working.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 10:12 PM

Latest thing now, John, is that 6 states, thanks to those on the right side of the political divide, are poised to make birth-control pills illegal??? Talk about the Taliban???

This is mostly because the Tea Party is emboldened... Hey, if that's the America Sawz and GfinS want then, hey, I'd like for them to come right out and say, "I want government in my bedroom"...

That's the madness of this entire debate... GfinS & Sawz would love nothing more than two sets of laws... One for them and another for everyone else... But no matter, they want the government to enforce the stuff against me that they think I'm doing that they don't like but they don't want the government enforcing nuthin' on them...

This is called hypocrisy of the highest order in my book..

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 09:55 PM

GfS, is there any chance at all that you will just have a discussion without all the insults? You can tell me in your bizarre prose that I'm stupid all you want to, but your failure to address any of the issues on the table says a lot more about you than you say about me.

I agree with Bobert that talking about what our American freedoms really mean is completely germaine to a thread about the Tea Party.

What do you have to say for your contradictory statements about the role that the government should play in our personal lives? How about you claiming that we should follow the Constitution and then trying to use a Constitutional argument to say some American should be treated differently under the law than other Americans? How about your profession of Christianity while your posts are full vitriol and mean-spiritedness?

Come up with some answers or prove yourself lost in a fog composed of a complete lack of integrity.

Oh, and if you don't want your identity spoofed, join the organization. Better yet, man up and sign your name.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 09:17 PM

BTW, Sawz...

Just because you have found another rightie to buddy up with in GfinS it doesn't change the fact that I have answered your questions...

You just don't like the answer so you keep asking over and over and over...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 08:45 PM

Yes, the topic of the thread is the Tea Party and as John has pointed out the Tea Party is perfectly willing to let the government tell you who to marry, to interfere with medical procedures, to legislate morals, etc... They are no unlike the Taliban in that respect...Like the Taliban they want the government to inlfict and enforce their particular set of values...

John's question is quite relevant to this discussion...

I mean, the entire left v. right thing has to do with government... The right can not have it both ways... Government isn't like a menu at a resturant... We either believe that government does some things very well and let it do it or we have Mad Max After the Thunderdome...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 06:32 PM

Dear John,

"Hey Joe Offer, I opened 'Mudcat' to find a post, which I partly agree with...BUT I did NOT post that post...I also saw one in the 'BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??'(From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) in which I wholeheartedly agree, but I did not author that post. You can leave it up or not, but if you leave it up, leave this one as well.
To whomever is using 'Guest from Sanity' to post your thoughts on, have the guts to use your own monicker.

Joe, if you remove the posts, please archive them, in case the situation arises, in which it may be need shown, that they are NOT from me!"



Thank you.

GfS

P.S. I DO really agree with the 'Tea Party' (Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) post, though!"

THAT BEING SAID THOUGH:
John P: "Yes, yes, GfS, I've heard it all before."

Well you have a problem then with comprehension, and discerning facts...which you have to deal with!

Topic on this thread is the 'Tea Party'........Well you have a problem then with comprehension, and discerning facts...which you have to deal with!

GfS
    I can't identify the source of the 3:32 PM post - it looks to me like it comes from GfS, but maybe not. One of the many reasons why it's best to register as a member and post only as a member. If you post as a Guest, we can't offer you much protection - and certainly can't give any assurance as to your identity as a poster. If you are a Guest, you are always suspect, because we have no assurance of your identity.
    -Joe Offer-

    P.S. We archive ALL deleted posts.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 04:26 PM

Yes, yes, GfS, I've heard it all before. How does that fit with getting the government out of our private lives? It sounds like you want the government out of our lives until something comes along that you don't like and then you want legislation that suits your likes and dislikes. The reason the government is in our private lives is because people like you keep yelling for it to be there. Add up enough people's likes and dislikes and add legislation to all of them, and you end up with a repressive society.

By the way, the Constitution doesn't say anything about who can marry who. Are you a strict constructionist or not? What, exactly, does the "Land of the Free" mean to you?

Lastly, I want the government to stop telling us who we can marry because it's wrong, not because it's part of some political agenda. If you want to talk to a political agenda, go find a website where a political agenda visits, and argue with it. If you want to be here, you'll have to settle for talking with individuals, and actually responding to what they say instead of allowing yourself to ignore them because you think they have been brain-washed by a political agenda.

So, care to respond to I actually said? Using ideas that don't involve reading into the Constitution something that isn't there?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM

John, The government does not have the right to change the definition of words, and meanings, just to suit a political agenda, and use the term 'civil rights' to cover any number of behavioural preferences, that are not stipulated beyond race, creed, or color....read it yourself.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 12:51 PM

GfS: . . . return America to a Constitutionally based government, that gets it's nose, and sticky fingers, out of our personal lives . . .

Here's the once-a-year post from GfS that I agree with. Tell me, Guest, does this include having the government stop telling us who we can marry and who we can't? How far does stopping government interference in our personal lives go for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 05:12 AM

Well Sawzaw, I guess you're NOT a Democrap, or you would have ignored that,....along with a lot of other stuff.

It's not the Democrats or Republicans, in general, its the rabid believers of both parties, that have been blinded, to wrong. They only point fingers across the street, instead of cleaning up their side!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 01:23 AM

Mr Byrd continued to make racist statements after his "metamorphosis" so I assume that was what was in his heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 09:35 PM

Bobert: "Yeah, GfinS... World of difference here...
Robert Byrd renounced his bad...
Plain loves hers..."

Bobert: "How do you know what was in Robert Byrd's heart, GfinS???"

I'm apparently better at it than you!...so....here's a little tune for you. Your two posts earned it!!!


For Bobert......except these guys smoke..........(music)

See ya',

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 06:10 PM

Poster is Bobert.

Reset your cookie, Bobert!! -Joe O-


Yeah, GfinS... World of difference here...

Robert Byrd renounced his bad...

Plain loves hers...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 12:58 AM

"Gosh, do you think you'd ever 'forgive' Sarah Palin for favoring the Tea Party??..."

When she renounces, I will listen for sincerity, and believe if I hear it.

Shall I hold my breath?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 09:31 PM

Bobsy: "Me thinks you need to work more on what is in yers and leave other folk's hearts the heck alone...

Robert Bryd exhibited remorse for the last 50 years of his life and I saw him physically interact with black people in a manner that sho nuff looked genuine... BTW, Robert Bryd did not need the black vote for re-election..."

..and you DID???....I guess you can see into Obama's heart, too, because you sure seem to like him...while a lot of people in America are remembering the old adage, "If a man cheats you once, shame on him. If he cheats you twice shame on YOU!"

Now as to the 'remorse', you claim to have seen....you think because he had 'bad thoughts' that he was so remorseful about??...or maybe things that happened, under his watch, at the ol' KKK that he knows about...and never came clean about it?
Gosh, do you think you'd ever 'forgive' Sarah Palin for favoring the Tea Party??...the same way you'd just lick Byrd's boots?...Maybe Sawzaw is right. You might have needs to probe him about that...I thought he was beginning to make some interesting points, there.
But what the hell do I know..about the old small fish...there are bigger one's that need some fryin', at present.
BTW, I KNEW you were going to ask me about seeing into people's hearts.....did a pretty good job with Oblabbo's..didn't I....when a lot of you couldn't or wouldn't see it......three years ago....
Just like in music.....'Speed is a bi-product of accuracy!'

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 03:17 PM

How do you know what was in Robert Byrd's heart, GfinS???

Me thinks you need to work more on what is in yers and leave other folk's hearts the heck alone...

Robert Bryd exhibited remorse for the last 50 years of his life and I saw him physically interact with black people in a manner that sho nuff looked genuine... BTW, Robert Bryd did not need the black vote for re-election... That is a very important FACT in trying to see into a man's inner values...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 02:20 AM

Sawzaw: (Quoting from Leo J. Seney, letter to the editor): "The best analogy I can imagine is to have somebody reform your house cat into a Tasmanian Devil and then say, Look at the improvements I've made!"

It reminds me of a tiger changing it's stripes, like Senator Robert Carlyle Byrd, once head of the KKK, and leader of other Southern Democrats, known for their extreme racial views of Negroes in the south. The changing of the stripes were merely for political expediency, not reflecting a change of heart!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM

Dear Mr Bobert:

I asked who said "So ya'll righties want to see the country sink further in the recession to get the "nigga" out???"

You have not answered that question. Saying I heard it is not answering the question.

Obviously it was you who made that racist remark but you do not want to own up to it.

You want to make believe someone else said it so you can project your attitudes about the extent of racism on others.

Your OCD is about making hateful, racist remarks. You believe it somehow makes the world better.

Leo J. Seney:Dear Editor:
When we can no longer afford the government, the government can no longer afford to treat us with kid gloves. After redistribution comes re-education and the re-evaluation of who may live and who must be eliminated. All of this will be done for the greater good--of the Cummuno/Fascist Democrat party, that is.

The Republicans are being criticised for voting against health care but that charge is fallacious, What they voted against was the Democrat health care reform and reform means changing something into something else.

The best analogy I can imagine is to have somebody reform your house cat into a Tasmanian Devil and then say, Look at the improvements I've made! Sure, it got into grandma's room and killed her but she was old and living on borrowed time anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM

More name calling from either side, pointing fingers at the other side, is a futile exercise of the Merry-Go-Round. There IS a truth out there, and I think it best to get to it, and stand on it! Both parties will hate you and call us names, but so what?..most of what they are putting forth, in their name calling and lying is being found out, and let the discrediting begin! The Republicans are trying to do with the 'Tea Party', as the Democrats did to the 'peace movement' of the 60's. This should be patently obvious..and being as we lived through it, we SHOULD have a handle on it...and our wisdom and age, should cause us to ask the right questions, at the right time, and make it publicly known, that the way business is done in Washington, shall now be on the decrease! The one thing both parties fear, is Independent thinkers, who aren't falling for their line of crap! They should be exposed, written about, both journalistically, and in music, and everything that lies within us, to return America to a Constitutionally based government, that gets it's nose, and sticky fingers, out of our personal lives, and pocketbooks! Ignore polls who favor one or the other side...Independents are growing faster than either party, and possibly both parties combined!!
Instead of being 'issue based', which either side will align themselves to, for the votes, DEMAND that the corruption, the 'puppeteering', and the 'special interests' over populist representation, be done away with, and in fact, start pressing for charges, up to and including treason,..regardless of party, and/or banking affiliations!!...It is TAXPAYERS money that was supposed to be used to help us, the taxpayers, but it all somehow got misdirected into the hands of the globalist bankers, and was NOT used to stimulate the economy(at least for the working, taxpaying public), but rather used to line the pockets of the mega corporations, who are actively waging war on the small business people of America!...who were the ones who were actually putting more people to work, than the corporations!..Go figure!
More and more people are getting sick and tired of their pack of lies......all they need is a 'little theme song'.....and less support!
NO MORE!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 08:45 AM

Terrorists? No. Morons? Yup. Arseholes? You bet!

--------------------------------

Enemy Democrats

June 3, 2011
Plattsburgh, NY PRESS-REPUBLICAN
TO THE EDITOR: The more upstate New York conservatives organize, the more chaos ensues.

It seems we were better off before we had the Tea Party and Teamwatch: where once we had Republicans (the 23rd and the 26th congressional districts), we now have liberal Democrats. This makes no sense unless you actually think about it.

Teamwatch informs the voters of our representative's actions, while Tea Party folks protest against government excess, and these are good things. The fly in the ointment is the fact that both groups are dancing around the real problem: There is a war under way for the soul of America, and the enemy is the Democrat Party.

Abortion, gun control, socialized medicine, the lobotomizing of children in government schools, class warfare and a graduated tax are all tools in the kit of communist dictatorships and the Democrat Party.

How much more life, liberty and property do Americans have to lose before they see the connection?

Leo J. Seney
Dannemora


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 11:39 PM

Sorry if I misconstrued what you said, GfS.

As to the general corruption of both parties, I've been fully aware of this since I compared what Mr. Lawrence (the high school civics teacher I mentioned) said was the way things were supposed to be with what I soon became aware was really going on in the political realm.

Does one simply give up? I, for one, am not ready to do that yet.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM

Same as the other one......Except for the 'P.S.'

Don, You went off on what you THOUGHT I was IMPLYING....that's not what I meant!...at all. Just take it for face value: "You shine when it comes to music."...other than that, "Knowledge speaks; Wisdom listens."...

All of what you posted, in your last post, doesn't resolve the fact that both parties are corrupted by the very people who 'offer' the 'other' party for the solution...only to find out, that the root of the problem, is the same that is 'wrong' with the 'other party'.
its time NOT to listen to EITHER of them, and just stick to the truth...even if both parties only use partial amounts, of it, to manipulate people away from that which really is true...and keep from being discovered, who is really behind the two offered 'choices'.

GfS

P.S...Maybe we should ALL be better, sticking to music...if that's where we shine!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 04:51 PM

"Don, you shine, when you stick to music!!"

Implying, I presume, that I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to politics, so I should just shut up and stick to music?

Did you take any Civics classes when you were in high school? The teacher of my high school history and civics classes acted as faculty advisor for a group of students who got together after school one afternoon a week for a discussion of current events. I was one of those students for two years.

Ever take any Political Science and/or Economics courses in college?   Philosophy? Ethics?

Have you ever read Plato's Republic? What was Plato's stance on the idea of democracy? For or against?

How about Thomas Hobbes? John Locke? Baruch Spinoza? Or the writings of Thomas Paine? Or James Madison?

Or Alexis de Tocqueville's monumental two volume work, Democracy in America?

More recent: Modern Political Philosophies by Louis Wasserman, a concise encyclopedia of the principles and characterists of the world's political systems and their philosophical and economic bases. Good reference book, but a bit dated now.

Excellent little book: First Democracy: The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. A description of Athenian democracy, how it worked (remarkably well, in fact!), and how it did not work (and how to fix it). The book contains a highly thought-provoking final chapter or afterword, entitled, "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?" Easy, fast read and very enlightening. Highly recommended!

A perusal of some of the works of George Lakoff (a linguist rather than a political writer) gives one a great deal of insight into the way political thinkers (and non-thinkers!) manipulate language in an effort to (of course!) manipulate the opinions of others.

There's a lot of that going on here on these Mudcat threads. It's a fascinating demonstration of some of the things Lakoff talks about to see the way many people use political labels while not having the foggiest notion of what the terms mean!

Have you ever worked on a political campaign? I have;   a number of times, having to do with both national and local candidates and issues.

Also, I am on old geek. I remember presidents, congressmen, and political campaigns (and the convolutions of rhetoric) from many decades ago. From FDR up to the present.

No, I don't think anyone could characterize me as "politically naïve." If anything, some people consider me a royal pain in the ass because I'm pretty good at identifying political pettifoggery, whether it be from national politicians, streetcorner campaigners, or blog-addicted mynah birds who frequent the BS threads here on Mudcat.

Note:   I do not belong to a political party.

Am I a political "rebel?" That depends upon where the person accusing me of that is coming from. I have well thought out and firm (but open to new input) ideas about political principles and ethics and, in general, how a free and open democracy should operate—to the maximum benefit of ALL it's citizens. To the plutocrat who is trying to get even richer by screwing as many people as possible, I'm undoubtedly a rebel. But to me, HE's the rebel, even if he IS the CEO of a multinational corporation. So it's a wash.

Another one to read:   William L. Schirer's, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. How did Hitler's Germany get that way? What were the dynamics involved? Could it happen again somewhere else?

Have you read what Benito Mussolini wrote about the relationship between the Corporations and the State in a Fascist government?

And what HE thought the Fasces, the symbol of a bundle of sticks tied around a battle-ax, actually symbolizes?

He oughtta know!

Fascinating! Scary! Think about it!

Don Firth

P. S. It's hard to "brainwash" someone who knows where his towel is.*

*See Douglass Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.


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