Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations

DigiTrad:
CORNISH MAY CAROL
DRAWING NEARER TO THE MERRY MONTH OF MAY
MAY DAY CAROL
MAY DAY CAROL (2)
MAY MORNING CAROL
MAY MORNING DEW
QUEEN OF THE MAY


Related threads:
Origins: May Morning Dew (25)
BS: Mudcat Calenda Maya Tavern (prep) (39)
May Day (only just though!) (10)
Lyr Req: Thugamar fein an samhradh linn (19)
(origins) Origins: Oh where is king george/john? (34)
Lyr Req/Add: Ballad of the Maytime (A Christie) (18)
'Tis The Merry Month of May (29)
May Day - modern labor/union singers? (18)
May Day song. Who wrote it? (4)
1st May 2016 (22)
BS: Beal Tain Greetings (25)
Beltane/May Day-How do you celebrate? (128)
Lyr Add: Cheshire May-day song (13)
Help: Swinton May Songs #'s 1 and 2 (13)
Lyr/Chords Req: We'll Have a May Day (Matt McGinn) (23)
Lyr Req: May Song (D Webber) and other May songs (59) (closed)
Lyr Req: Padstow Queen of the May (34)
Folklore: May baskets (24)
Lyr Req: May Carol: 'Remember lords and ladies...' (9)
Hitchin May Day Song (3)
maypole dancing (12)
Songs for May Day (31)
Info Req: Now is the Month of Maying (21)
Songs for Walpurgis Night (5)
Lyr Req: Mayday / May Day (Casey Neill) (13)
Save May Day! Create a maypole Forest! (7)
Lyr Req: Hymnus Eucharistus (May morn) (13)
songs for may (11)
Happy May Day! (67)
Folklore: Padstow's Obby Oss (88)
Folklore: Songs to do with May Day (20)
May Morning Greetings and activities (5)
(origins) Origins: St.Michael's Beltane Song (14)
Lyr Req: First of May (Wolfe Tones) (8)
Maypole - where to get one! (28)
Folklore: May day Rhymes or songs (15)
May Pole Music (8)
Maypole dancing in Sri Lanka! (9)
BS: Blessed Beltane 2007! (30)
BS: Beltane (27)
Folklore: Now tis first of May (22)
Padstow May Day -seeking CD's & Videos (4)
wanted- a maypole (55)
May Day 2005 (81)
Hooray Hooray May Day (17)
Keeping May Day (14)
Lyr Req: Queen of the May (from Meg Davis) (5)
How to make a may pole and dance round it (34)
Lyr Add: Beltaine Chase Song (10)
Lyr Req: The Horses of May Day (Harry Basnett) (18)
May Day (57)
(origins) Origins: Hippy Chippy Charlie (maypole song) (2)
Lyr Req: Come Lasses and Lads (16)
Lyr Add: May-day Garland (1)
Lyr Req: Unite and Unite (Cornish May Carol) (9)
Lyr Req: We'll Have a May Day (Matt McGinn) (8)
Have a great May Day 2003 (51)
May Day Dancing 2003 (14)
Lyr Req: The Twenty-First of May (2)
Lyr Add: Amhran na Craoibhe - a May Day song (8)
Padstow Obby Oss Festival (17)
Somerset Mayday time?? (9)
The 29th of May (20)
One Love Festival in May (4)
Happy May Day! (23)
Celebrate Mayday! (62)
May / Beltane - how do you celebrate (31)
Happy TRUE Beltane! (7)
Beltaine in Ireland (1)
Folklore: Beltane in Glastonbury (35)
May Day children's books, stories (2)
Spring and May-Day Carols (3)
Lyr Req: Come Lasses and Lads (4)


*#1 PEASANT* 23 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM
theleveller 23 Apr 10 - 09:11 AM
theleveller 23 Apr 10 - 09:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Apr 10 - 09:26 AM
theleveller 23 Apr 10 - 09:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM
theleveller 23 Apr 10 - 10:04 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 23 Apr 10 - 02:28 PM
Edthefolkie 23 Apr 10 - 02:34 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 23 Apr 10 - 03:32 PM
Little Robyn 23 Apr 10 - 05:18 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 10 - 07:47 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 23 Apr 10 - 10:12 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 23 Apr 10 - 10:13 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 10 - 10:30 PM
Don Firth 23 Apr 10 - 11:38 PM
katlaughing 23 Apr 10 - 11:50 PM
Cuilionn 24 Apr 10 - 08:00 AM
Don Firth 24 Apr 10 - 02:37 PM
Dave the Gnome 24 Apr 10 - 05:43 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 25 Apr 10 - 01:23 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 25 Apr 10 - 01:26 PM
Don Firth 25 Apr 10 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Russ 25 Apr 10 - 11:33 PM
Marje 26 Apr 10 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,the peasant at alt computer..... 26 Apr 10 - 07:42 AM
Don Firth 26 Apr 10 - 03:00 PM
selby 26 Apr 10 - 04:08 PM
Little Robyn 27 Apr 10 - 04:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Apr 10 - 04:17 AM
GUEST,peasant on alt computer 27 Apr 10 - 07:32 AM
GUEST 27 Apr 10 - 07:42 AM
theleveller 27 Apr 10 - 08:09 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 27 Apr 10 - 09:43 AM
theleveller 27 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Apr 10 - 10:43 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 27 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM
Don Firth 27 Apr 10 - 03:51 PM
Little Robyn 27 Apr 10 - 03:53 PM
selby 27 Apr 10 - 04:22 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 27 Apr 10 - 10:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 28 Apr 10 - 03:55 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 30 Apr 10 - 09:14 PM
wysiwyg 30 Apr 10 - 11:00 PM
Joe Offer 01 May 10 - 12:37 AM
LadyJean 01 May 10 - 12:56 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 May 10 - 10:03 AM
Don Firth 01 May 10 - 02:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 May 10 - 02:56 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 01 May 10 - 05:01 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 01 May 10 - 05:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 May 10 - 06:53 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 08:05 AM

Get ready for the big day!

http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/mayjack/mayjack1.html

May morning Reference Web page

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 09:11 AM

May Day = Labour Day or International Workers' Day - a celebration of left-wing politics when, traditionally, unions have marches with their wonderful embroidered banners and celebrate the stuggle of workers against exploitation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 09:16 AM

I'll be playing Ray Hearne's 'The Wrong Sunshine' and John Tams' 'Unity' - and other music from the No Masters Co-operative.

No Masters


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 09:26 AM

Is the appropriation of May Day by the left wing OK then? Surely May Day celebrations occured long before the left wing or unions existed? Does the annexing of one tradition not then pave the way for other groups to annexe other traditional festivals?

Just asking!

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 09:36 AM

I'd say 'extension' not 'appropriation'. It would probably have been one of the few days when workers had a holiday and it goes back to the Jacks-in-the-Green, who were Victorian chimney sweeps who wanted a way to get some money at a time of year when work was short.

May Day has always been a 'common people's' holiday rather than a church festival (remember the scene in Tess of the D'Urbervilles?)so it seems right that it turned into a way of celebrating the rights of the common people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 09:49 AM

Good points! I think it goes back further than that though - Or else our illustrious Victorian collectors were making thngs up again:-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 10:04 AM

David's question got me thinking a bit more about the development of May Day into Labour Day. May Day was traditionally a rural celebration when farm workers and 'commoners' celebrated their way of life. But, after the Enclosure Acts, a vast number of the rural population was forced off the land and obliged to migrate to the industrial areas where they provided the workforce for the Industrial Revolution. Here the traditional rural 'fertility' celebrations would have little resonance to people living in squalid urban slums and working in appalling conditions in mills, mines, steelworks and the like so, as the organised labour movement grew, what better way of giving the workers back their traditional holiday, but now with a more appropriate context that had a resonance to their current way of life – especially as May Day had been taken over by the middle classes as a quaint relic of folklore?

I doubt if you'll find much maypole dancing in Rotherham, Wath-on-Dearne of the old mining and steel town and villages of South Yorkshire. I reckon a few might be singing along To Ray Hearne, though (grapes of Wath is really appropriate!).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:28 PM

May morning , maying was always a festival involving gathering in fields away from residences. As urban celebrations or village celebrations (municipal festivals designed generally to attract commerce and interest in an area) develped one finds parades with garlands, jack in the green and of course the sweeps all joining in. Each time there is change a layer is added with some aspects more important in some areas than in others.

Lots of range too in the level to which people engage their minds in the celebrations. Always a wide range within any given group but as one moves from rural gatherings in fields and clearings to urban municipal festivals one finds celebrants a bit less mentally engaged in the celebration of growth, season change and earth forces. May festivals in the USA a subset of the faire festival movement find most of the visitors using it for a sort of "mindless" dress up event an excuse to wander around masquerade and spend money- they tend to be audience rather than participants with the folk element rather shallow. This is good for the folk industry performers and vendors but not good for transmission which if more people were dragged into performance and singing would do better at these events.

So one is left with capitolism as the real reason behind these things.
Which has been happening for a long time as in municipal festivals however in the past more people were a bit more engaged in the actual activities.

I feel that the labor aspect is simple coincidence maybe with some attempt to make use of existing gatherings perhaps in urban areas.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:34 PM

You might find some preparation, unity and good singing by the working classes outside the Golden Lion in Padstow at 00:01 hrs on May Day!

Unite and unite and let us all unite,
   For summer is acome unto day,
And whither we are going we will all unite,
   In the merry morning of May.

I warn you young men everyone
   For summer is acome unto day,
To go to the green-wood and fetch your May home
   In the merry morning of May.

Arise up Mr. ---- and joy you betide
   For summer is acome unto day,
And bright is your bride that lies by your side,
   In the merry morning of May.

Arise up Mrs. ---- and gold be your ring,
   For summer is acome unto day,
And give to us a cup of ale the merrier we shall sing,
   In the merry morning of May.

Arise up Miss ---- all in your gown of green
   For summer is acome unto day,
You are as fine a lady as wait upon the Queen,
   In the merry morning of May.

Now fare you well, and we bid you all good cheer,
   For summer is acome unto day,
We call once more unto your house before another year,
   In the merry morning of May.

Go at least once in your life but respect the Padstonians - 'tis their day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 03:32 PM

Great song!
It is indeed a day for the people. We generally get only a very few as we celebrate at dawn and it is usually on a work day. This year we hoped for a few more as we are extending it to all day however, many people who would have attended are going to the local corporate festival....admission charge, vendors....so we won't see them at our home spun plain gathering.

The kicker is that after fleecing the customers at the corporate festival the organizers close it off so they can have their own festival and bonfire in the evening....we would never do that. We just let people gather, some bring food others drink and we have music and celebration. Always seemed like to collect money would be unnecessary hardship....

but for some money gets in the way and they have to rid them selves of it and others pick it up so it does not blow round the streets

As I said nothing wrong with municipal celebrations but a different kettle of celebrants than what we do. I have heard great things from Padsto wish I could attend.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Little Robyn
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 05:18 PM

OSS OSS!
WEE OSS!

Robyn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 07:47 PM

What is all this?

I've always been under the impression, going all the way back to when I was a wee tad (and that was in prehistoric times) that May Day was an ancient festival celebrating the beginning of summer, and it may very well have been started by the Druids. So I looked it up:
"The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian, with the festival of Flora, the Roman Goddess of flowers, and the Walpurgis Night celebrations of the Germanic countries. It is also associated with the Gaelic Beltane. Many pagan celebrations were abandoned or Christianized during the process of conversion in Europe. A more secular version of May Day continues to be observed in Europe and America. In this form, May Day may be best known for its tradition of dancing the Maypole and crowning of the Queen of the May. Various Neopagan groups celebrate reconstructed (to varying degrees) versions of these customs on May 1. The day was a traditional summer holiday in many pre-Christian European pagan cultures. While February 1 was the first day of Spring, May 1 was the first day of summer; hence, the summer solstice on June 25 (now June 21) was Midsummer. In the Roman Catholic tradition, May is observed as Mary's month, and in these circles May Day is usually a celebration of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In this connection, in works of art, school skits, and so forth, Mary's head will often be adorned with flowers. Fading in popularity since the late 20th century is the giving of "May baskets," small baskets of sweets and/or flowers, usually left anonymously on neighbours' doorsteps."
The May Day Carol:   CLICKY

The association of May Day with the Labor Movement or with Communism is a fairly recent phenomenon and purely coincidental. The one does not necessarily have anything to do with the other.

"Mayday! Mayday!" as a international distress signal comes from "M'aidez! M'aidez!" French, meaning, literally, "Help me! Help me!"

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 10:12 PM

there is no pagan continuity Ronald Hutton look his citations up.
Pagan is a useless word meaning- "we dont really know"

There is no way that we will ever know the mythology of all the pagan cultures spanning the millennia....

CB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 10:13 PM

Intrepretato romano is also outdated that is to say that making the celtic or saxon or other record correspond to roman calendar is stupid....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 10:30 PM

Ronald Hutton? REALLY, now! Not someone whom everyone regards as an authority on the subject.

Besides, pre-Christian religions (which is generally what is meant by the word "pagan") were not just confined to the British Isles. And we may not know all of the mythology of pagan religions spanning the millennium, but we certainly know a fair amount.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 11:38 PM

And regarding the calendar, the passage I quoted was putting the matter into it's historical context. Nothing stupid about it.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 11:50 PM

Thank you, Don, I agree. Pagan usually just meant non-city dwellers, i.e. rural folk. I have very fond memories of making May baskets in school and taking them home to my mom, usually with a small pansy plant in it. I think I'll do that with my grandson this year.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Cuilionn
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:00 AM

My understanding is that May Day, like the other "cross-quarters," was one of the four great turning points in the agricultural year long before the calendar or method of observance was codified by various communities.

Imagine: you are a Northern European commoner. You spend your winters crammed into a stone, sod, or otherwise constructed building of cramped proportions, sharing heat (and breathing smoke) along with the assorted other folk--and probably some of the animals--that make up your household. In these close quarters, wonderful songs are sung and entrancing stories are sung, but germs and vermin leap quickly from one creature to another and, as the food stores get lower, illness and irritation reduce the charm of the arrangement considerably.

Then... the sun begins to warm the landscape again. The trees leaf out. Bud and blossom come. The outdoor world--the commoner's real workshop and living room (a house being merely the place one goes when it is time to sleep, cook, or get out of the weather)--is ready to fully inhabit once again. The unsmokey air is so grand to breathe. The freedom to stretch, move, think and act unhindered by others is so joyous, so grand! Not only that, but suddenly there are fresh green leaves and shoots ready to eat, after the dreadful late-winter diet!

With the warmth and growth, the season of agricultural work returns to full swing. Although the work is hard, it is a genuine pleasure to spend your days amidst such bounty and beauty. Besides, there are chances for meeting up with other country folk, for the sake of work and other even more pleasurable pursuits.

So...wouldn't YOU take the opportunity, in such a time, to run, dance, leap and laugh, court and romp and sing?

--Cuilionn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 02:37 PM

Exactly so. This is the way many of our modern holidays got started. Agricultural communities celebrating various turning points in the seasons.

A lot of this got started pretty early on, and many of these seasonal celebrations were pre-empted. Spring festivals became Easter (rebirth, resurrection), winter solstice celegrations (midwinter, as bad as it's going to get, but since the sun will now begin to come higher in the sky, things will get better) became Christmas (the coming of the sun/Son).

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 05:43 PM

I really must learn the Swinton May songs one of these days. Mind you, I have been saying this for at leat 20 years! Our little village (Haha - Now the administartive centre of Salford!) Was noted in Chambers book of days for not one but two May songs - the old and the new. The old is on a Watersons album but the new, as far as I know, has never been recorded anywhere but in Chambers.

Oddly enough they were not performed on May day - but During April, leading up to May day.

Cheers

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 01:23 PM

Hey mr don did you read the end of the article linked here- here it is

Coda:

A retort "In Defense of Ronald Hutton" was placed online in 2005 by a James F., who is secretive about his last name but wants you to know that "Max Dashu is a feminist. She teaches feminism; she writes about it. She's biased. Very biased." So now you know.

This writer included a reply by Mr Hutton himself, whose defense was that his sources had it wrong, and it was all so long ago. He says that the article (on this page, above) is "the work not of an academic of any sort but of a professional artist whose ideological stance is one of dedicated and extreme feminism." (Emphasis in original) Reader, you have been warned. Caveat lector...

Hutton is a very well respected source and his take on paganism is right on the money.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: Your May Morning Sing a long resource
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 01:26 PM

Greetings-

This year I should have this out in small booklet form with a few rhymes and recipes.
http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/mayjack/mayjack1.html

Another free service of Hutman Productions

May Song Source


Additions most welcome!

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 02:57 PM

Yes, I did, Conrad.

Did you read the part where Hutton said ". . . that his sources had it wrong, and it was all so long ago." ?

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Your May Morning Sing a long resource
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:33 PM

Cool.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Your May Morning Sing a long resource
From: Marje
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:40 AM

Well, that's the first time I've seen May Day used to propogate Creationism! The links at the side of the page promote anti-science theories and (oddly but perhaps appropriately) the sale of artificial plants.

I think I'll stick to paganism.

Marje


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: GUEST,the peasant at alt computer.....
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 07:42 AM

one thing I think is important

May Morning Is something you Do not something you watch someone else doing or pay to view and just sit there.

processions are ok but the best procession is when everyone is in it.

If it is just entertainment the folk biz has not done its job which is to convey the meaning and relevance for daily life.

We should not be paying the folk biz folks just to entertain. They need to do it in such a way that reaches the daily lives of the people they meet. and....that is not that all that difficult but it is more than just turning up collecting money and playing/ Some people do this already but generally its all just minimally entertainment.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 03:00 PM

Conrad, I agree that to get the most out of May Day celebrations, one needs to be a participant, not just a spectator. That's the nature of that particular celebration.

BUT—

I take strong issue with your statement, "We should not be paying the folk biz folks just to entertain."

My first really strong attraction to folk music was in 1952, when I attended a concert by a local singer of folk songs who was a professional entertainer:   Walt Robertson. Further, as I set about learning songs and learning to play the guitar, I discovered the work of Richard Dyer-Bennet.

Dyer-Bennet did not consider himself to be a "folk singer." He ascribed to the traditions of the minstrels and troubadours of ages gone by. These were professional singers. Some were employed by monarchs and nobles and sang in castles and courts. Others wandered the roads, singing in town squares, entertaining for a few coppers, much as "buskers" do now. Since there is little call for court minstrels in the modern world (minstrels having been replaced by television sets), Dyer-Bennet sang first in night clubs, then in concert halls. And on records.

I did not copy Dyer-Bennet's style of singing (he was a light tenor, I am a bass-baritone), but I did (and do) emulate his approach to folk songs and ballads. Dyer-Bennet said:
"The value lies inherent in the song, not in the regional mannerisms or colloquialisms. No song is ever harmed by being articulated clearly, on pitch, with sufficient control of phrase and dynamics to make the most of the poetry and melody, and with an instrumental accompaniment designed to enrich the whole effect."
I took classical guitar lessons. I took singing lessons. I spent three years in the University of Washington School of Music, studying music history and music theory, followed by another two years at the Cornish College of the Arts (a conservatory). I also studied with Professor David C. Fowler in the U. of W. English Department, who specialized in early English Literature and Poetry—along with the Child Ballads.

None of this was necessary. I could have just learned a handful of chords and strums and started singing for anyone who cared to listen. But I wanted to present the songs—NOT in an "arty" manner—but artfully. That is, as Dyer-Bennet said in the above quote:   "articulated clearly, on pitch . . . control of phrase and dynamics" and an accompaniment "to enrich the whole effect." And I wanted to sing for audiences. And to enthrall them the same way I had been enthralled when I first heard Walt Robertson.

Because I had taken the time—and spent the money—to learn about the songs and learn to sing them well, I was called on to do a series of educational television programs, and was subsequently called upon to sing concerts and in clubs and coffeehouses and at folk festivals.

Since I have been able to make a fairly decent living by singing for paying audiences (as well as singing many places for no pay)—and because a number of people who have heard me sing came to me for lessons—I believe I have achieved my life goal.

I have former students, some of whom are singing professionally, some teaching, and some just singing for the enjoyment of themselves and friends. So as a byproduct of my own career, I believe I have "spread the gospel," so to speak.

Conrad, I would not have been able to do this unless I had been paid for my singing. I would have had to spend my life in other kinds of work, just simply to make a living. But because people were willing to pay to hear me sing, I was able to live the kind of life that I wanted. And to inspire others the way I had been inspired.

I tell you all this not to "blow my own horn," but to explain why some singers of folk songs feel perfectly justified in expecting to be paid for their performances.

Performers like Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Richard Dyer-Bennet, Burl Ives, Ed McCurdy, Theodore Bikel, Cynthia Gooding, and others have introduced millions of people to folk music, many of whom have been inspired to learn to sing and play themselves. And they, in turn, inspired others.

So don't think that eliminating minstrels and troubadours such as these will improve anything.

Quite the contrary!

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: selby
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 04:08 PM

so am i wasting my time going to Padstow then?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Little Robyn
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 04:03 AM

No way!
If I could get there, I'd be going.
It's a fantastic day and you're not just a spectator - you're right in the middle of it.
And then there's a pastie for lunch!!!
Oss Oss,
Robyn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 04:17 AM

Depends of you support the new or old 'oss!

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: GUEST,peasant on alt computer
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:32 AM

remember that I did not say that professional musicians should not exist only that they should go beyond entertaining- they should entertain in ways that make positive impacts upon the creation of a singing songwriting public= this might be something as simple as handing out a song sheet for sing a long or hanging out with the people after a concert rather than leaving or perhaps arranging for many small performances rather than one big one.....
professionals have always been with us and they play an important role but it is not the only role or the most important.
Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:42 AM

Padstow is wonderful.
As time unfolds modes of celebration are created and continue. From individuals going out to meadows to families, to extended families to village communities.

padstow is a long procession with street theater just one mode

what we have to encourage is the perpetuation of all modes of celebration as well as the development of new ones.

I am most familiar with bonfire- guy fawkes. Over the last half century or more we have seen the decline if not disappearance of several modes of celebration. not as many guys on street corners, severe decline in backyard festivities and the dominance of large society sponsored events which is a late victorian addition. From time to time one has to look around and lend support, funding encouragement to the dying modes. I would like a return to the old Guys who came out in the early 19th century. i have revived that in baltimore going out each nov. fifth with the guy to an unpunished offender.

so we are guardians of lots of traditions.

As well as preserving the traditional modes of celebration we also need to work on engaging the audience in the action. these days festivals are becoming more and more less focused dress up masquerading has replaced purposeful reenactment striving for some degree of accuracy. When audiences attend minimally engaged we are not doing enough to safeguard the celebrations in the minds of the people as meaningful components of the lifeway- a mode of preservation more secure than any library or database.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 08:09 AM

Conrad, why are you usurping British traditions? Have you none of your own? Personally, I think it's a shame that American traditions are being taken up in Britain, such as trick or treat replacing our Halloween festivities.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 09:43 AM

Not the case.
Most traditions are pan european if not universal in foundation anyway.
I celebrate both Halloween and Guy Fawkes/bonfire....

No one owns holidays or celebrations. Keep in mind that North America had a significant English past. Guy Fawkes Day was celebrated till the 19th century as popes day-so too may 1 but with may 1 even longer with a sinificent 20th century revival especially of may poll dancing.

It is not helpful to claim ownership of customs. They need all the help that they can get.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 10:31 AM

"It is not helpful to claim ownership of customs. They need all the help that they can get."

Utter bollocks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 10:43 AM

I have no axe to grind on the claiming of customs but I am great believer in celebrating everything:-) May Day, Samhain, Christmas, Divali, Eid, Hannukah, Independance day, St George's day and the first new moon of any month with a Monday in it...

As long as it involves a toast. Or two. Or three. It's fine by me:-)

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 01:31 PM

Culture is learned not genetically inherited sorry!
People pop in and out from one culture to another all the time.
Nothing at all wrong with that.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 03:51 PM

"Culture is learned not genetically inherited sorry!
People pop in and out from one culture to another all the time.
Nothing at all wrong with that."

On this matter, I am in agreement with Conrad.

I sing songs from England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, along with songs from all over the United States and Canada. Plus a few songs in languages other than my own. I reserve the right to learn and sing any song that appeals to me and simply ignore those who try to tell me what I can or cannot sing. And this inclusiveness likewise extends to any custom or cultural practice.

I am a citizen of the world, not just a limited geographical area.

####

"I did not say that professional musicians should not exist only that they should go beyond entertaining- they should entertain in ways that make positive impacts upon the creation of a singing songwriting public= this might be something as simple as handing out a song sheet for sing a long or hanging out with the people after a concert rather than leaving or perhaps arranging for many small performances rather than one big one....."

But many of them do, Conrad. Among other things, on my bookshelves, I have song books compiled by such singers as Richard Dyer-Bennet (two, collections), Burl Ives (several books and folios), Carl Sandburg (two song books compiled by this poet and minstrel), Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Theodore Bikel, Peggy Seeger, Ewan MacColl, and about a dozen others—so anybody can learn and sing these songs. Pete Seeger has probably done more than anyone else to get people singing folk songs.

On many occasions, I and others have chatted with performers after concerts. On two different occasions with Richard Dyer-Bennet, numerous opportunities to chat with people such as Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger, and--the whole catalog--at the Berkeley Folk Festivals and at other performances, a half-dozen of us sitting around and chatting with Theodore Bikel the day after one of his concerts. . . .

Performers of all kinds are often quite generous with their time, and with suggestions and advice for young, aspiring performers. And this includes many performers in fields other than folk music. I've had chances to chat with many different performers including classical guitarists, opera singers, a clarinet virtuoso, a lutenist. . . .

I do not pass out song sheets at my performances, nor do I customarily lead the audience in songs as, say, Pete Seeger does. Once in a while with appropriate songs (e.g. some sea chanteys, perhaps), but not often. I have good reason for this. Many of the songs I sing are ballads—story songs. The primary purpose here is to let the song tell the story. And this is not well served by trying to get the audience to sing along on the choruses or refrains of these songs.

Case in point:   The Cruel Mother, Child #20, whose first verse goes
She leaned her back against a thorn,
    Fine flowers in the valley,
And there her little babe was born,
    And the green grass it grows rarely.
The second and fourth lines (the ones in italics) are sung in each verse. The story is a haunting one in a couple of different ways. And to have the audience sing along on these lines would obscure the story line and completely obliterate the dramatic effect of the entire ballad.

No. Not a good idea at all!

But if someone, after hearing me sing it, wants to learn it and sing it themselves, I am perfectly willing to teach them the words and tune--after the concert.

Again, Conrad, you complain about problems that don't really exist. Either that, or there may be very good reasons for doing things the way they are being done.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Little Robyn
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 03:53 PM

David, it doesn't matter if you support the Old Oss or the Blue Oss or the kid's Oss.
Support them all if you like.
It's still a great day and you'll never forget it.
I've done it twice - in 1972 and in 1990 and I'd love to go again but it probably wont happen now.
So here in NZ, I dress up in whites, with my blue scarf and ribbons and I play the tune to myself and then in the evening we usually have a phone call from Padstow, as the Blue Oss goes up St Edmund's Lane.
Keep 'er gain' all night!
Oss Oss
Robyn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: selby
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 04:22 PM

thanks Little Robyn you have inspired me I have wanted to be in Padstow on May day for years and I am really looking forward to being there


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 10:43 PM

Go to padstow!
As for exceptions yes there are lots of them but not as many good exceptions as one would like

As for song sheets...yes needed!
Ok then if you dont want them singing pass them out later and by the way include sources that lead people to get involved.

The best concerts I have ever attended have been ones with songsheets people are used to hymnals and it is much better response.

yes it does depend on the song.

You must leave an audience more inclined to sing than be sung to and with routes to more information. Their deeper involvement will come round to assist you as well with bigger more dedicated turn out of people involved with the music not just audience.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Apr 10 - 03:55 AM

David, it doesn't matter if you support the Old Oss or the Blue Oss or the kid's Oss.

That's like saying it doesn't matter if you support Manchester United or Manchester City. Or John o' Gaunt or Preston Royal Morris. It does if you are really involved with that 'team':-) I have seen rivalry between the blue and old 'oss teams that rivals anything on the football terraces! Well - not really. No violence but everything else.

I'm not the only one to spot it either - Read Colin Irwin's 'In search of Albion'.

Cheers

DeG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Folklore: Where did you bring up the sun May 12010
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 09:14 PM

Contemporary Folklore-

Let us know where you brought up the sun May 1 2010

Post links to images and videos.

I will get ours up when it happens....

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where did you bring up the sun May 12010
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Apr 10 - 11:00 PM

I don't reckon I have the power to bring it up. But if I do, I will be doing it in my sleep.

~Susan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 10 - 12:37 AM

Conrad, you have started FOUR threads for the first of May. You get one, and you have already used up your allotment. I have moved your messages to threads I deemed appropriate.
If you had posted to existing threads, then YOU could have chosen where your messages would end up.
Wise up.

-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: LadyJean
Date: 01 May 10 - 12:56 AM

Having spent two months buried under three feet of snow, I am celebrating spring!!!

I would reccomend that anyone go to Cornwall. For one thing it's beautiful there. For another, the Cornish people are terribly nice. They are even nice to Americans, even the very un-nice American women who stayed in the same hotel we did and quarreled all the time. I wish I'd had more time to spend in Cornwall. I'd like to get to know the place better. (And if you find yourself in Penzance, stay at the Abbey Hotel.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 May 10 - 10:03 AM

I was one of over 50 who saw Standon Morris dance the sun up.
Both village pubs were open.
first pint at 6 AM
keith.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 10 - 02:16 PM

When my wife and I woke up this morning, the May Pole was in evidence. So we did a little dance. . . .

It's an old folk custom.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 10 - 02:56 PM

Standon at sunrise was too early for me. But I'll be there on Monday to see Standon Morris dance in the street for the May Queen Crowning. Touch wood it doesn't rain... And even if it does there is always The Star.

Here are a few photos I took at Standon May Day a couple of years back

That's Standon in Herfordshire if you don't know. Very
well worth getting along to if you're within range.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 01 May 10 - 05:01 PM

sorry joe but thought reporting in for may first celebrations would be a good thread because there was not one already and there would have been a need. too picky
I just hope that the next time I start a thread that you remove all the hate mail generated against me that is not on topic.

Conrad


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 01 May 10 - 05:04 PM

Joe I only started two may morning threads and one was started several days if not weeks ago....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Prepare for May Morning celebrations
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 10 - 06:53 PM

"That's like saying it doesn't matter if you support Manchester United or Manchester City.

Either way you've got something in common underlying the rivalry which isn't shared with people who aren't in the least interested in football. Opponents are part of the same game, in any field.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 July 9:33 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.