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EFDSS and good business practice

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johnadams 26 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 26 Aug 10 - 11:37 AM
The Sandman 26 Aug 10 - 12:24 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 26 Aug 10 - 12:31 PM
Desert Dancer 26 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM
Desert Dancer 26 Aug 10 - 12:53 PM
The Sandman 26 Aug 10 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 26 Aug 10 - 12:55 PM
The Sandman 26 Aug 10 - 01:08 PM
The Sandman 26 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,ecclescake 26 Aug 10 - 01:28 PM
The Sandman 26 Aug 10 - 02:43 PM
Manitas_at_home 27 Aug 10 - 06:10 AM
Mitch the Bass 27 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM
Bloke from Poole 27 Aug 10 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,LDT 27 Aug 10 - 08:15 AM
Desert Dancer 27 Aug 10 - 10:57 AM
Vic Smith 27 Aug 10 - 10:58 AM
Desert Dancer 27 Aug 10 - 11:14 AM
Old Vermin 27 Aug 10 - 02:23 PM
Vic Smith 28 Aug 10 - 05:27 AM
johnadams 28 Aug 10 - 06:18 AM
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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: johnadams
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 10:42 AM

Hi Howard,

The British Mountaineering Council is an interesting comparison. They obviously have a large membership base with subscriptions totalling well over £1 million last year. Add into that the quarter million pound grant from the Sports Council and you can see why they operate with a surplus each year and presently have £2 million cash in hand. Well supported and well managed - to the extent that they can get on with the work of the council.


I think the EFDSS should aim towards being in a similar position so that it could get on with the work of becoming the lead body for the country's folk arts, but it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation really. You want to see results before you join, and the income from the present membership is not, on its own, enough to finance achieving all those results. True, ACE funding has arrived but it was only announced in the Spring and who knows if it's actually arrived yet. If it has arrived, it will have a number of outcomes attached and we have yet to see if those outcomes match yours and my expectations of what the society should be doing. I hope they will.

But... who knows where the ACE cuts will strike in the next round. Will folk music stand a good chance of not being in the firing line? I'd recommend that the society puts a hard hat on :-) or at least be careful not to over reach, just in case.

It appears to me that the steps the society are taking are steady and confident ones and are in the areas of education and library web resources, two areas that have featured ad nauseum in Mudcat posts over the years. Given that they have made these strides I am feeling more and more that they are getting enough strength to deliver on other fronts but it won't happen overnight with the wave of a magic wand.

I also think that the society has a little way to go before it sets itself up as some sort of expert consultancy. Most of the knowledge and expertise on the folk scene exists outside the society and the main way that the EFDSS can assist people is via networking. I'm assuming and hoping that this will come as part of the adoption of the roles of Folk Arts England but again, not overnight and not without some support, particularly from people like you and me. It's heartening to see the young folkies joining up and getting involved.

I think the society is at a pivotal point right now and has the best chance to prove its worth than it has had for a long time. I'm praying it doesn't cock it up and so far the signs are good. If a bunch of people lend some support now by joining, buying stuff, supporting wherever possible then ultimately we'll all get something out of it, even those of us four hours drive north of the Camden Town Folk Arts Centre.

These days I'm not at the centre of EFDSS business, being more on the edge looking in, so I've probably not dealt with all of the points you've raised in this thread but right now I'm quite busy on archive work and can't spare too much time to think it all through.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:37 AM

I'll give it another go, hopefully without being shouted down.

If you at the Irish situation for comparison I would suggest to have a look Na Piobairi Uilleann instead of Comhaltas.

Na Piobairi Uilleann was formed in 1968 to promote the Irish Pipes, deliberately separate from Comhaltas (for all intrigue and turf wars released on them by the bigger organisation I suggest you look elsewhere). Under the chairmanship and guidance of Breandán Breatnach work was set in motion and eventually a headquarters was obtained in Henrietta st in Dublin.

Now, I won't run through the entire history of the organisation but can summarise that for a long time they struggled to get adequate funding and the headquarters, which the organisation set out to restore and make fit for their aims, weighed the organisation down financially and organisationally for a long time.

They were often referred to as 'the Dublin Pipers' (with a heavy emphasis on 'Dublin') because they were simply unable, for financial and organisational reasons, to cover the whole country.

Now, sometime during the late eighties (if I recall correctly, maybe early nineties) a decision was put to the membership to transform the organisation and incorporate it. This idea was embraced.

Approaching the aims of the organisation as a business (while still registered as charity for tax/donation purposes and no doubt helped greatly by the economic boom and rising interest in the pipes in the wake of Riverdance) has given the organisation a tremendous boost.

Full time staff is now able to provide support for pipers all over the world, a large number of publications have been produced, recordings have been put on the market, a shop with relevant materials to serve the membership is operated via the web, musical events get organised, the Piperlink tour is travelling the world (please google that yourself). All generating income for the organisation (sponsorships and Arts Council funding are ongoing sources of funding as well).

At the same time the Georgian building in Henrietta st has been restored to the highest standard and I think there's talk of expanding to premises next door. A library and archive have been established, series of high profile lectures are being run.

It is a definite story of success and expansion. In my opinion a far better model for how things can work for an organisation involved in (the promotion and preservation of)traditional music than the one Comhaltas can provide.

Na Piobairi Uillean website


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:24 PM

Peter ,why should I shout that down, na piobari uillean is a perfectly good business model, they do an excellent job.
unlike you I also believe that Comhaltas are run in a business like manner.
I think it perfectly reasonable to ask you to provide facts to prove your assertion that Comhaltas are not an example of good business practice.
there are a number of things i dislike about Comhaltas and their director general, but being unbusiness like is not something Iwould accuse them of, can you please back up your comments.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:31 PM

I don't think there's a problem with you asking clarification but there is with you behaving like a foul-mouthed bully. And not for the first time I may add.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:33 PM

When you're making a link, you have to put the "http://" in the url...

Na Piobairi Uillean website

----

The Country Dance and Song Society in the U.S., has had some parallel struggles: they've been around a long time and some folks judge them on their past, not their present. They're based in the northeast and run a series of dance and music camps in Massachusetts, which are as out of reach to many here as London may seem to many of you. For for some they have been associated mainly with old fogeys doing boring English country dancing.

But, they've done some good work in recent years to overcome this image and be more broadly useful:

- they are probably the best resource (most comprehensive and helpful) for purchasing books and recordings on American and English country dance in the U.S.

- they provide small grants (often matching grants) and loans to organizations and individuals for projects like publications, event startups, etc.

- they provide networking through their member directory (this may be becoming less needed since the boom of the web), and can always be contacted directly for this sort of info, too. Their online listing of "group affiliates" is a good one.

- group affiliates (member organizations) can receive assistance with attaining non-profit (tax-exempt) corporate status

- individual members have access to Callerlab resources (including individual insurance) through the CDSS affiliation with that organization

- membership in CDSS by groups is one of the best ways to get access to group liability insurance for dances and other events

- they have facilitated/assisted with regional networking/information conferences, such as the upcoming Southeast Dance Leadership Conference (there have been two or three of these previously in other locations around the country). I would not be surprised to find that CDSS is providing some of the funding for the small scholarships available to attend the SE conference.

- they consciously work to include a reasonably geographically diverse group in their board membership (a challenge, since board members have to commit to getting themselves (at least) to the northeast for the annual meeting -- some financial assistance is available for this

- in recent years they have had a great initiative to promote country dance and song among young people. They have hired a youth intern who, among other things, is a great face for the organization on Facebook, and they've had one or two networking/informational conferences on the topic (conferences for young people, not just about them).

- they're turning their web site into a really useful portal to a lot of information and resources

I think that the key role of a nationally central organization like CDSS or EFDSS is to be useful to the local individuals and organizations in doing what they do, not to do it for them.

CDSS does this with no grant or government funding, just the proceeds of their camps and individual donations. They have a staff of 12 now, of which maybe a little more than half are employed full time (the camps do take the work of one dedicated full-time staff member, as well the work of parts of several others).

~ Becky in Tucson
disclaimer: former CDSS board member


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:53 PM

also should have added -- I'm an EFDSS member

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:54 PM

Peter, just clarify your comments giving facts and statistics etc.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:55 PM

Having any central organisation will bring the danger of it being perceived as only serving the area near it's headquarters or being 'some of it's members' rather than 'the sum of it's members'.

I think NPU in my example has made a fair go at putting that perception to rest. As much as they can anyway.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:08 PM

Peter, when are you going to prove Comhaltas are unbusiness like with details?


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM

I am sure that EFDSS could run a dance festival at little cost and make a profit for the society,[which was how Sidmouth originated]at present there is only one Folk dance festival, Eastbourne.
That would seem to me like a good business proposition.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: GUEST,ecclescake
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:28 PM

What is it about Dick Miles and the EFDSS? Did a descendant of Cecil's once tread on his corns? For feck's sake, Dick, give it a rest and get a bloody life!


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 02:43 PM

guest Eccles cake, be kind enough to let those who wish to discuss it do so.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 06:10 AM

You're not discussing anything - you're repeating a mantra!


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 07:18 AM

Good Soldier Schweik said "...at present there is only one Folk dance festival, Eastbourne."

Not Southam or Lichfield or Countesthorpe or Purbeck or Ipswich?


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Bloke from Poole
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:00 AM

Don't know about the others, the Purbeck Festival isn't a dance festival. There is a dance weekend for country dance, but I wouldn't describe it as a festival.

Coming from the dark dance side I have wondered about joining the EFDSS and haven't found enough there to interest me. Some might find some irony there... C# house is too far, I'd be a regular if it weren't.

There is a bunch of organisations, at least in the west, covering different aspects - Halsway Manor, Wren, Devon Squeezebox (LDT - are you in the west?), and while I'm pretty sure they all talk to each other, I'm not aware of an umbrella organisation.

EFDSS sounds like it should fit that position, but doesn't.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: GUEST,LDT
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 08:15 AM

No I'm in the South East on the 'coast', in a cultural cul-de-sac.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 10:57 AM

Here is how the EFDSS summarizes their activities as background to a current position opening (link to pdf; there's a copy online at fRoots). One reason for joining, among others, is to support those activitites.

~ Becky in Tucson

The EFDSS is a national folk arts development organisation. It is multi-faceted being a membership society with nearly 4000 members, an arts venue (Cecil Sharp House), an education, training and development agency, a publisher, an advocate and lobbyist, and the custodian of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, which is the only dedicated folk arts library and archive in the UK.

The Society is going through a major period of change. It was reviewed and restructured in 2007 with the objective of re-positioning itself as the leading folk arts agency in England.

To meet the aim of reviving the Society we are increasing and diversifying our activities to bring the folk arts to a wider public. During the past two years the Society has:-

• Received a grant of £154k from the Heritage Lottery Fund for a major archiving and national education project using six of the song collections in our archive (Take Six project).
• Introduced its own regular programme of events at Cecil Sharp House including The Irrepressible Tradition music season, showcasing the best new talent on the folk music circuit.
• Worked with partners to produce events e.g. Mary Neal Project, National Gallery, Sadler's Wells, BFI, Miles of Smiles, The Local, The London Gypsy Orchestra.
• 'EFDSS on the Move' – supporting programmes at the Cambridge, Sidmouth and Furness Folk Festivals, summer 2009.
• Introduced a Family Friendly programme of events.
• Invited external programmers such as BBC 3 broadcaster Verity Sharp, who curated 'Apple Day' in October 2009.
• Developed a visual arts programme.
• Developed a professional development programme including the appointment of an artist-in-residence post (visual artist) and run a choreographic project for professional choreographers on morris and contemporary dance forms.
• Expanded our education programme into new contexts and areas and is developing opportunities for training teachers in the folk arts.

Over the next 5 years EFDSS will continue to develop -
• Cecil Sharp House as the folk arts centre in London.
• Outreach and education programmes to impact on the national curriculum and the training of music and dance artists and teachers.
• Advocacy and lobbying on behalf of the folk arts working in association with other folk arts agencies and organisations.
• Develop partnerships with a broad range of organisations to attract new audiences and to widen the profile of the Society.
• Prepare for a major capital project to provide the library with increased and climatically suitable space for its ever growing collections.

In October 2009 EFDSS became a Regularly Funded Organisation of Arts Council England's Music Department. The Society is now looking to a whole new area of development as the Folk Development Agency for England and as part of this process is developing the Marketing Department to communicate the aims of the Society and to market the EFDSS programme of events and activities; both at Cecil Sharp House and beyond, to both a folk and a non-folk audience.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Vic Smith
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 10:58 AM

Here is a press release /job advert circular from the EFDSS. I reproduce it in full below. I posted it on the Nick Hallam thread but it would seem to have equal relevance here as the majority of it states what the EFDSS itself considers that it is up to at the moment and as no-one employed by the EFDSS (as far as I know) has taken part in this discussion, it would seem to have a good use here:-

The EFDSS have announced a vacancy for a temporary marketing assistant.

See http://www.efdss.org/front/vacancies/vacancies/214217


ENGLISH FOLK DANCE AND SONG SOCIETY
TEMPORARY MARKETING ASSISTANT
(2-3 DAYS PER WEEK, DEPENDING ON WORKLOAD)

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

The EFDSS is a national folk arts development organisation. It is multi-faceted being a membership society with nearly 4000 members, an arts venue (Cecil Sharp House), an education, training and development agency, a publisher, an advocate and lobbyist, and the custodian of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, which is the only dedicated folk arts library and archive in the UK.

The Society is going through a major period of change. It was reviewed and restructured in 2007 with the objective of re-positioning itself as the leading folk arts agency in England.

To meet the aim of reviving the Society we are increasing and diversifying our activities to bring the folk arts to a wider public. During the past two years the Society has:-

• Received a grant of £154k from the Heritage Lottery Fund for a major archiving and national education project using six of the song collections in our archive (Take Six project).
• Introduced its own regular programme of events at Cecil Sharp House including The Irrepressible Tradition music season, showcasing the best new talent on the folk music circuit.
• Worked with partners to produce events e.g. Mary Neal Project, National Gallery, Sadler's Wells, BFI, Miles of Smiles, The Local, The London Gypsy Orchestra.
• 'EFDSS on the Move' – supporting programmes at the Cambridge, Sidmouth and Furness Folk Festivals, summer 2009.
• Introduced a Family Friendly programme of events.
• Invited external programmers such as BBC 3 broadcaster Verity Sharp, who curated 'Apple Day' in October 2009.
• Developed a visual arts programme.
• Developed a professional development programme including the appointment of an artist-in-residence post (visual artist) and run a choreographic project for professional choreographers on morris and contemporary dance forms.
• Expanded our education programme into new contexts and areas and is developing opportunities for training teachers in the folk arts.

Over the next 5 years EFDSS will continue to develop -
• Cecil Sharp House as the folk arts centre in London.
• Outreach and education programmes to impact on the national curriculum and the training of music and dance artists and teachers.
• Advocacy and lobbying on behalf of the folk arts working in association with other folk arts agencies and organisations.
• Develop partnerships with a broad range of organisations to attract new audiences and to widen the profile of the Society.
• Prepare for a major capital project to provide the library with increased and climatically suitable space for its ever growing collections.

In October 2009 EFDSS became a Regularly Funded Organisation of Arts Council England's Music Department. The Society is now looking to a whole new area of development as the Folk Development Agency for England and as part of this process is developing the Marketing Department to communicate the aims of the Society and to market the EFDSS programme of events and activities; both at Cecil Sharp House and beyond, to both a folk and a non-folk audience.


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 11:14 AM

snap!


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Old Vermin
Date: 27 Aug 10 - 02:23 PM

Trying not to be too picky, but the first thing to leap out was that Verity Sharp presents on Radio 3, a BBC channel, not on BBC3 which is a 'yoof' television channel.

Always easier to spot other people's minor errors than one's own, of course.

Interesting bit, for me, is "choreographic project for professional choreographers on morris and contemporary dance forms." Now why I have I immediately thought of Laurel Swift and Morris Offspring? I did of course manage to miss the project itself when it was going on in 2009.

Someone recently suggested doing eceilidh dance as a display.Anyone already done so?

Does the advocacy and lobbying include encouraging reform of the Public Entertainment Licensing nonsense, perchance?


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: Vic Smith
Date: 28 Aug 10 - 05:27 AM

Mr Vermin wrote:-

"Trying not to be too picky, but the first thing to leap out was that Verity Sharp presents on Radio 3, a BBC channel, not on BBC3 which is a 'yoof' television channel."


Certainly, a sad slip.... and anyway, if I wanted to describe Verity in a nutshell I would have gone for her excellent work as presenter of "The Culture Show" on BBC's 1 and 2 television. That is what she is best known for to the general public.

One reason for the mistake could be.... I heard somewhere on the grapevine.... that the EFDSS are without a publicity officer at the moment....


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Subject: RE: EFDSS and good business practice
From: johnadams
Date: 28 Aug 10 - 06:18 AM

They do have a most excellent marketing manager, even though she doesn't presently have a marketing director above her in the management chain.


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