BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 12:46 PM

NHK...

Radioactive iodine twice the country's legal standard has been detected in seawater at a location 40 kilometers south of the disabled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

The Japanese Science Ministry on Saturday released the results of a survey based on samples taken 3 days ago. The sample was collected at a spot 10 kilometers off Iwaki City and 40 kilometers from the disabled plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture.

The detected level of iodine-131 was 79.4 becquerels per liter, twice the legal standard for water discharged from nuclear plants.

This is the first time that a radioactive reading that exceeds the legal limit has been detected off the shore of Fukushima Prefecture.
It's believed that the radioactive substances were carried offshore from the plant by a north-south current.

On Saturday, a crack was found in the compound of the nuclear plant through which radioactive water has been leaking into the ocean.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says radioactive iodine will be diluted in seawater and does not pose a threat to human health. But it said it will continue to closely monitor the condition.

Saturday, April 02, 2011 17:49 +0900 (JST)

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:04 PM

The pit with the crack is connected to the turbine building tunnel and the water intake. They tried concrete and it didn't work. They are going to try some kind of polymer "thingy"... the translation is sketchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:28 PM

As disaster movies go, this is getting better and better.

There could be a very big and very real explosion of the tons of fuel melted together.

ITs called an excurison.   Isn't that sweet.

Its a brief runaway fission event

boom not BOOM RRRR like an A bomb but deadly in its own iminical way.
Take the 2000 tons of uranium ,
spread it big and quick or let it leak forever
no matter what all the kings horsemen and all the kings men try to do for the next 100 years...
those the sad and true realities.

Even the best possible outcome at this point is just awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM

Neither the Japanese Nuclear Safety agency nor TEPCO will confirm the estimates of U. S. Energy Secretary Chu that there were 70% meltdown in one reactor and 30% in another.

The failure of Japanese government, Tepco and Japanese media to fully disclose information is frustrating, but on the other hand, where did Chu get those estimates?

Adding to gnu post- "A senior nuclear safety official says the crack could be one of the sources of radioactivity found in seawater near the water outlet." NHK. Is he saying that there are other sources?

Workers are testing the spraying of synthetic resin. Type?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:36 PM

Anyone for shooting in ping pong balls and old tennis shoes to plug the crack?

There was a fire and hydrogen explosion reported earlier in the spent fuel pool of Unit 4. It's possible that the explosion cracked the stainless steel and concrete containment for that pool, or maybe coolant is leaking out one of the drain pipes, valves damaged in the explosion.

I'd not be surprised if the other spent fuel pools in units 1, 2, and 3, are similarly damaged.

And as we've mentioned above, that would be a major problem given the inventory of high level nuclear waste stored in these pools.

One would hope that such large spent fuel pools will no longer be designed so close to the reactor vessel. There needs to be a small spent fuel pool for temporarily storing the inventory of one reactor vessel but it should be transfered out to a more remote well protected spent fuel pool as soon as it has cooled sufficiently. That was the design of the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant, a pressured light water reactor constructed back in 1970 and decommissioned in 1996, and it would seem to be an improvement on the design of the Fukushima-1 Mark 1 reactors, and their sister reactors all around the world, including the 23 plants in the States.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:42 PM

I just read they have run out of shoe covers and are taping plastic bags over their shoes. Is no one checking on things like this? That is not a hard item to come by. They seem to let things run out totally before they think to order more. They waited weeks to order new generators. Please do not let them run nuclear ever again if they can't do simple things...I am wondering if I would let them put up clotheslines for free solar drying. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:43 PM

Study of the nature of the earthquake continues. Measurements by researchers found an area off the coast that rose 5 to 8 meters in a zome 180 x 60 kilometers in size. This may have added impetus and height to the tsunami.
Prof. Satake, Univ. Tokio, said similar studies were needed to determine if similar quakes and tsunami could occur in other coastal areas. NHK World.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:51 PM

Charley... "Is he saying that there are other sources?" No. It is "a" source. He cannot say there are NO others.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 01:52 PM

For what it's worth. A summary of readings from detection sutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 02:09 PM

Japan Times questionaire-
"Much has been written recently about the gap between overseas media and local media when it comes to coverage of the aftermath of March 11 earthquake and tsunami. What is your take on this?"

"-Japanese media outlets need to be more agressive
-Sensationalist journalism hasn't affected me
-The government needs to open more communication channels
-Foreign journalists should act more responsibly
-Social media is doing a good job of filtering
-Wasn't aware of the gap."

(Note- Major Japanese media, as a rule, do not print information that cannot be substantiated. Rumors are a no-no. There are 'tabloid media' but they are not mass-circulation, and are often prosecuted for libel. Panel shows are common, but use comedians, personalities, etc., and avoid serious and/or political subjects.
The 'talk show' on radio of the type found in the U. S. is absent.)

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 02:19 PM

Unicef is requesting donations so that they may provide children books as a distraction for the kids who have virtually no other activity at shelters. NHK TV is clearly not theia of choice for children in this disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 02:31 PM

Japanese NHK TV every day broadcasts interviews with families in the shelters. These are halls and gymnasiums, open areas with each family centered around a futon, many families sharing the space. TV is not feasible, but books entertain without interfering with others.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 02:53 PM

As in Chernobyl, there are no procedures to stop selling radioactive products and food in Japan. They did catch some radioactive Spinich but that was grown very near the nuke plants.

20% of Japan Fishing fleet and sea food processing plants are destroyed. So far Tokyo fish auction markets say all the fish are fine.

The fish who have feasted on the 10000 people washed out to sea must effect the psyche of people in Japan on some level. It did at Phuket.

Food shortages and food dangers in Japan will become more evident in the months and years to come.

At northern shelters a cup of noodles meal is common.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 03:33 PM

Sources for these statements, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM

Unicef? The Japanese government told the world early on that $$$ is NO problem. What they need is time and manpower. They have oodles of money and equipment, but money doesn't clear roads and feed people and clean up a nuclear disaster... it takes time and it takes resources that are not available in sufficient quantity. If it was, they could buy it with the coin they said was no problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 04:16 PM

"For the the first month there were no procedures to halt radioactive products in Chernobyl. When there was it was fou that the lumber cut into boards was fine but the brooms were dangerously hot. All but one shipment of brooms had already been shipped."

I was on the commitee to pass or deny requests for food shipments from the Chernobyl area. One field adjacent to another might be unsafe but the other was safe, but the dust was free to blow and the water to flow. I learned how bad we humans are. I learned how bad I was. The rules said we had to dump dangerous dirt in dirt someplace else 6 feet deep and that surveys were to be done to be sure ground water was meters away. In practice the diggers would dig until they hit water and then usually didn't bother with the polyethelene plastic liners at all. etc

quotes from a book read out loud on the npr show THis American life this afternnon.

Its worth looking this show up later. It has the stories of the real people involved including the newly wed wife of a fireman who had radiation sickness within hours of exposure. She held his hand as he slept even though it was against the rules for anyone to touch him. Within days he began to cough up his lungs in large amounts and the rest of his organs were coming out as they were killed and disoloving from the inside out.
The accounts were read by actors in some cases and not the real victims, because some did not survive.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM

The Japanese government has set up a comprehensive plan and system to monitor food from affected areas. The WHO and FAO are keeping track of the situation, and the FAO has praised government efforts to keep the food supply safe.
The fears of radiation have decreased purchases of fresh foods, both agricultural and marine.
Produce from Ibaraki Prefecture, to the northeast, has been hard hit because of the discovery of spinach with unacceptable levels of radiation.

Markets have plenty of fresh fish and vegetables from unaffected areas, despite the devastation of part of the Tohoku area, including farms and small fishing villages.

Food exports from Japan are small, less than 0.5% of total exports (seafood about half of this).

Alarmist blogs are being printed in the U. S. by vehicles such as the Majirox News, staffed by former underground writers, and in UK by their large yellow press.

MSN News, April 3, 2011; "Radiation Discovery Fans Food Fears in Japan."

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 04:30 PM

THe Union of Concerned Scientists has just posted their summary of what has been happening in Japan with regard to this nuclear disaster: click here for report!

It appears an excellent summary to me. It's a pity that it's unlikely to be reprinted in full by the Sunday newspapers tomorrow. There's a lot of people around the world who would like to know a little more about what happened, and what might happen next.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 05:51 PM

Leave it to the US to offer the "Putzmeister".

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 07:13 PM

Despite all the complaints Japan really does seem to be handling the disaster 100% better than the USSR.

Tons of nuclear fuel doesnt care if the operators are a corrupt private company for profit at any cost or a souless state beauracracy, all it wants to do is burn.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 07:41 PM

Corrupt private company? Please point out the corruption.
It may be too centered on satisfying its many shareholders, but that is not corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 07:48 PM

Corrupt in the sense they covered up accidents and cracked reactors.
Corrupt in the sense that they discovered CRACKS in the reactor containment vessel and chose to weld patch work patches of steel over the cracks instead of replacing the reactor vessel which costs a huge amount of money. Welding patches is never suggested by any company or regulatrs for a cracked reactor.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM

Falsified safety inspections.

Probably lots of coverups about this incident..as many as they can get away with.

I would look for financial audits and see what could be discovered, although a company stupid enough not to be able to purchase dosimeters even at black market rates in a disaster might be smart enough to not leave trails of money. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 11 - 09:44 PM

We should probably withhold judgment on the degree to which TEPCO has mismanaged this unfolding disaster.

I've already outlined what I thought the mistakes were, none of which were of a criminal nature. But I wouldn't rule out deliberate cover-ups by TEPCO officials as well. A lot of information, of course, is missing because instrumentation went off-line along with the control rooms, and evidently the control rooms are still not fully functional (although the overhead lights work).

Hopefully third parties will soon gain access to the plant site and be able to take their own measurements.

The workers at the plant have had enough to do trying desperately to stabilize the melting fuel rods, and the huge volumes of radioactive water. They don't seem to have the training or time to make systematic measurements.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 08:28 AM

Here's an update on TEPCO's attempts to patch the leak in the cable trench beneath Unit 2 at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex (from Al Jazeera):

"Japanese officials grappling to end the nuclear crisis at the earthquake and tsunami-damaged Fukushima plant are focusing on a crack in a concrete pit that is leaking highly radioactive water into the ocean from a crippled reactor.

"There have been two attempts now to stem the flow of water from a pit near reactor No. 2," Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay, reporting from Tokyo, said on Sunday.

"In the first they [power plant workers] tried to use cement but that failed, in the second they tried to use a polymeric material, a kind of powder, but at the moment that is not working either," he said.

"Officials at TEPCO [the company that operates the plant] say they are not giving up yet on this product they will test it again on Monday. If it isn't working then, it is not clear what step 3 will be to try and stem the flow of this water.

"But even if they do stop the water flowing out of this pit, the water shouldn't be there in the first place, this is a pit that contains cables, so how do they stop that, that's the next question."

The water has been leaking into the sea from a 20-centimetre crack detected at a pit in the reactor where power cables are stored. TEPCO said the pit is connected to the No. 2 reactor's turbine building and a tunnel-like underground trench, in which highly radioactive water has been spotted so far."

Of course it will also be important to identify the source of the radioactive water that is filling the trench.

TEPCO has finally acknowledged that two plant workers were killed in the initial earthquake and tsunami. Their bodies were recently recovered and decontaminated.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:19 AM

Thanks, Charley. I check various sources every day for updates but ultimately come here for a concise, well thought out synopsis.

No doubt there will be a number of "horror" movies in the making for next year's release. Probably in time for the end of the world in December.

Maybe, I will finally write a book too.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:34 AM

Sins-

The summary above linked to the Union of Concerned Scientists is the best overview I've seen.

"No doubt there will be a number of "horror" movies in the making for next year's release."

The movie will be out long before this disaster is cleaned up. I'm sure it's already in production. I wondering if Sheen has a leading role?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:22 PM

Much debris had to be cleared before the two bodies could be found and recovered from the 'basement'.
Cleaning up will be a long-term effort.

This led me to remember the basement complex of a tower complex built here. The basement level consisted of a number of cells, or 'rooms', some of which were open to house elevator bases, air circulation equipment and other appurtenances (such as the turbines in the reactor buildings), some walled off as unneeded, and merely part of the underpinnings of the tower complex.
I wonder if contaminated water could be leaking into something on the order of these 'cells', which would be hard to penetrate, but, if breached, could be culprits in water escape.
I don't have the plans of the Hitachi structure, so these musings have no support- just a passing thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:30 PM

NHK...

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says there has been no change in the amount of radioactive water seeping from the Fukushima nuclear plant after a polymer absorbent was injected into a cracked pit.

Tokyo Electric Power Company found on Saturday that contaminated water was leaking into the ocean from the 20-centimeter crack in the concrete pit.

On Sunday, the utility firm used a polymer absorbent to try to stop the leak of radioactive water.

The government's nuclear agency said the injection of the chemical began shortly after 1:40 PM, but it cannot confirm if there has been a decline in the amount of contaminated water leaking into the ocean.

The agency added that sawdust and newspapers were also used, but the absorbent did not reach the pipe. Engineers are now trying to mix the substance with the water.

The agency plans to continue monitoring the situation until Monday to see if there is a positive result.

Sunday, April 03, 2011 19:38 +0900 (JST)


The video also says that the sawdust is "stuck somewhere".

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 02:22 PM

The word corrupt is still being put forth in ignorance. If miserly is meant, then say so.

However, replacing rather than 'patching' a reactor means construction of a new structure at a cost of near $1 billion.
Patch repairs done at Fukushima? Please quote reference. Are such repairs normally done in maintenance at nuclear plants? Who does them (if done), the installer or the operator? What is the approval route?

'Patch' repairs are normal on many expensive structures. The 'skin' (outer shell of airplanes) are replaced after a time period and many 'patches' are done over the 30 or so year lifetime of a primry service airliner before it is recycled. There are few major costly structures that aren't repaired over time, rather than being replaced.

Of course some regard all companies are corrupt; this implies that their employees and stockholders are complicit- sometimes many tens of thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:34 PM

The thread should read "Nuclear plant disasters looming" as we look at
the one in New York City, the Diablo plant in Northern California and the
San Onofre in Southern California, with the one also in Detroit.

Obama on the nuclear soapbox may be assigning our country to a dangerous precedent.

Who wants nuclear waste in their back yard?

Who relishes the idea of living within the radius of an active nuclear plant particularly in
an earthquake fault?

Nuclear energy may give a new definition to "blowback".

Who thinks that Chernobyl or Three Mile Island won't happen again?

The argument isn't coal on one hand and nuclear on the other. False choice!

How about investing R and D in alternative energy sources to make them work?

If we can send a man to the moon, we can develop a viable alternative to coal, natural gas and nuclear energy.

Hey, people, it's your tax dollars at work here.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:39 PM

I will say corrupt. What is falsifying safety reports other than corrupt? And how did they get them through the system?

And there was a story in today's Oregonian about not only were they short of the booties to wear but the safety suits in general. How could they not get supplies like this in?

I would add so stupid that words do not describe it..I was talking to a journalist yesterday and asking her for words that are beyond inept, incompetent etc. There are no words for this level of incompetence. And the Japanese people, and especially the workers in the complex, need to know that we are watching this and speaking up for their safety and welfare. They are undoubtedly unable to speak up without fear of reprisal in some situations.

Well, I hope the fix that they are trying with newspapers works. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 04:34 PM

"Falsifying reports"? Not in the Portland Oregonian.

The report about the two workmen without the protective footware is old and was reported by the company.
A shortage of suits on site was reported by the company, but no one was sent into contaminated areas without them.

The company has been accused of being close-mouthed by the government and news media, but now seems to be reporting more fully.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 04:53 PM

More than 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:07 PM

Again, source?

Or do you just like to falsify and/or invent reports?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:32 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704559904576231742989493576.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:54 PM

Which is a review of the leadership of Tepco president Shimizu and his illness-

WSJ also carried two emails from workers on the reactors. Nothing about lack of equipment, numbers affected, etc., but they do indicate that the plant is like a war zone (which it certainly is).

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 06:16 PM

" They are undoubtedly unable to speak up without fear of reprisal in some situations."

Source? THere are and have been protests and outspoken criticism of the placement of these plants for years. There are demonstrations reported daily in Japan against the use of nuclear power since the earthquake. The mayor/governor of the province surrounding the plant has been apoplectic in his criticism and anger at both the government and Tokyo Electric.
The only "reprisals" I have read of are the shunnings of refugees from the affected areas. Old fears of deformed babies and radiation contamination have resurfaced. Even hospitals are refusing to treat children from the fallout area.
And I can find the source for that if I have to.

Right now we have only part of the story. Time will prove out who cut corners, compromised safety or simply made business decisions that appeared viable at the time. Hopefully, the world will have learned enough to prevent this happening again...but I doubt it.

Just a thought - until a few weeks ago, Tokyo Electric was a model citizen enabling Japan to provide a modern, healthy life for its citizens. I do not for one minute believe that anyone in the company played the Hollywood role of the Evil Corporate Monster whose greed put everyone and anyone in jeopardy. Sometimes, shit happens. When it does, we learn and move on. Or not. The executives and workers of Tokyo Electric are making themselves physically ill while trying to contain the damage. Some will die.

We are just finding out that similar nuclear plants exist here in the US on unacceptable sites endangered by earthquake probability. So - have we learned from Japan? Or will we wring our hands, tut tut a lot and forget about it when the baseball season takes over the front page?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 06:17 PM

Which was not a response to you. I will not be responding to you, although I did have a post that got lost that did give some good links, which are easily found on google. I do not engage personally with people that I believe are unhealthy to me. So last personal response.

I am wondering again why they can not reuse the contaminated water to cool things down. Is it too hot? Too contaminated? Oh goodness all pumps are in Taiwan at the present time? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 06:29 PM

If they die, and as they die, I want them to at least have basic comforts of food and water, and the thanks of a grateful nation/world. I want them to have safety equipment and monitoring.   I want the truth to be extracted from this company and I at the very least want it stripped of its nuclear programs..that should be turned over to some other entity. I want names of who signed off on false safety inspections in the past, and investigations to how recently this has happened...certainly in the 2000s, when executives were forced to retire over this. And now is the time to squawk, because lives are at stake. When all safety issues have been resolved then I will be sweet as sugar candy. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 08:09 PM

I wonder if the destruction caused by first an earthquake, then a tsunami and lastly by continuing aftershocks might be playing a role in delays in getting manpower and supplies to the nuclear sites. I believe communications might have been affected as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 08:37 PM

Sinsull-

I also cut TEPCO some slack because of that. The earthquake and tsunami were well above what reasonably might have been expected.

However, TEPCO does have a long record of covering up "incidents" in the nuclear facilities they run and the Japanese media does not aggressively challenge corporations when they do such misdeeds. I also don't have the references for these statements. I suppose I ought to do some more homework, or maybe someone else will track down some relevant articles. I'm probably thinking of a book published by Green Peace some 15 years ago which provided an international overview of what was happening.

Was it also TEPCO who was mismanaging the fast breeder sodium cooled plant in Japan about ten years ago which almost went critical? I remember reading about a group of workers who were sent in with garbage cans to clean up the mess... Maybe it all was a bad dream but just for fun, Q, you might do a Google search and correct my ancient memory.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 08:49 PM

No, it wasn't TEPCO. According to Wikipedia it was an experimental fast breeder sodium cooled plant called Monju run by a governmental agency called Power Reactor and Nuclear Fuel Development Corporation: Click here for report!

"Monju Sodium Leak and Fire

On December 8, 1995, the reactor suffered a serious accident. Intense vibration caused a thermowell inside a pipe carrying sodium coolant to break, possibly at a defective weld point, allowing several hundred kilograms of sodium to leak out onto the floor below the pipe. Upon coming into contact with the air, the liquid sodium reacted with oxygen and moisture in the air, filling the room with caustic fumes and producing temperatures of several hundred degrees Celsius. The heat was so intense that it melted several steel structures in the room. An alarm sounded around 7:30 p.m., switching the system over to manual operations, but a full operational shutdown was not ordered until around 9:00 p.m., after the fumes were spotted. When investigators located the source of the spill they found as much as three tons of solidified sodium.

Fortunately, the leak occurred in the plant's secondary cooling system, so the sodium was not radioactive. However, there was massive public outrage in Japan when it was revealed that Power Reactor and Nuclear Fuel Development Corporation (PNC), the semigovernmental agency then in charge of Monju, had tried to cover up the extent of the accident and resulting damage. This coverup included falsifying reports and the editing of a videotape taken immediately after the accident, as well as the issuing of a gag order to employees regarding the existence of the real tapes."

Not a pretty incident and fortunately not a disaster. But certainly a major cover-up.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:08 PM

The nuclear sites are right on the water. If every road was down there was still the sea and we are talking for the most part about very obtainable supplies..food, water, safety gear, cots, blankets. To say nothing of generators, hoses, etc. There was also the air. Helicopters etc. would be in short supply but this would be extremely high priority. And there are other countries who were trying to provide assistance. They could have walked troops or volunteers over some of the roads, torn up to be sure, but they looked walkable to me. THere are carts, animals, bicycles. Viet Cong could have figured it out. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:48 PM

It seems to me that it should be noted that this whole complex is not the size of a Portland mall. We are speaking of tens of thousands of tons that have to be contained or neutralized, not a thousand pounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:36 AM

Ebbie-

Yes, this nuclear disaster is a massive and messy problem.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 08:38 AM

And meantime, half a million people are homeless.
Today's news: it will be months before the cooling system is fully functional and years before the clean up is complete. 15,000 tons of radioactive water will be dumped into the ocean to join the leaking pollution which now is still a mystery.

The sky may not be falling but I for one do not believe that this will not affect fish supplies. I keep seeing a chart in school of a tiny fish eaten by a bigger fish eaten by a bigger fish etc. Each time a little more radiation is concentrated in the bigger fish. Fish move around the ocean and get eaten or die. Then lobsters and crabs feed on them.

Speculation over. I feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 12:15 PM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-03/a-japanese-firefighter-on-surviving-the-nuclear-reactors-and-radiation/2/

Would someone please make a blue clicky from that? neat view from a fellow who was there. Thank you. Yer welcome. --Mod

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:13 PM

The catch-22 situation. Water is needed to cool the pools and reactors, radioactive water reaching the sea is increased. No storage possible except for the most radioactive waters.

It now is evident that melting took place in two reactor cores.
The workmen are limited in some places to as little as two minutes exposure. The examination cannot be examined close up.

The situation rivals Chernobyl.
Many early deaths from cancers in the coming years.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 01:32 PM

Again I wonder why they can't make, or better yet, get someone else to make, a moat of some type to hold the water and then repump it. Someone suggested filtering. Can you filter these particles? mg