BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 03:32 PM

$45B? Something sounds very odd about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:35 PM

Oops! $4.9 billion.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:43 PM

Even so, Q, 55% completed and only going on line in 9 years? THAT sounds strange too. This stuff boggles the mind. Makes ya wonder eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:09 AM

gnu-

Well, the Tennessee Valley Authority wants this plant to be perfect.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM

Crack in ocean floor pic.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM

Japanese Government acknowledges, for the first time, many homes and farms around Fukushima, both inside and outside the twelve mile exclusion zone, will be too contaminated for their owners to return, possibly for decades.

article

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM

".... decades."

Gee. That could be a lifetime or three or...

Fucking tragic.

And it ain't over yet. And not just for Japan.

Sigh. Doesn't even make the news here.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:38 PM

Kan intends to visit the Fukushima Prefecture on Saturday to give the bad news about long term no-go areas. Ministers declined to name specific areas.
Possible compensation- through buying up land, or through leasing arrangements- has not been decided. Further studies will be made to see if decomtamination is possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:01 PM

gnu-

"crack on ocean floor"

Too much sad information.

My niece Heather is indeed now embedded south of Tokyo, teaching English for two years. She should be relatively safe unless something nasty happens south of Tokyo. She is wise beyond her years and will most likely avoid products from the Fukushima Prefecture.

It's a damn pity that world news flits from one story to another and just because Fukushima is long term news, they just don't cover it with the attention it deserves. Remember the "day count" they used to do for Iraq? Or was that Vietnam?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:12 AM

Vanuatu earthquake, not supposed to have caused tsunami but it just shows there's still plenty of seismic activity in the area:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14603993

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM

Vanuatu Islands are thousands of miles to the south of Japan. Both are on the "Ring of Fire,", the Pacific plate boundaries which include the Pacific coasts of the Americas on the eastern side of the Pacific Ocean. Plate boundaries and associated faults ("cracks") ring the Pacific Ocean.
Activity in one region does not directly correlate with activity in another.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM

Just a little reminder reactors can get knocked anywhere : Baltimore Sun article

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 11:50 AM

They didn't plan for wind?!

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 05:47 PM

Just out of curiosity, are there any authoritative estimates of casualties?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:48 AM

New PM wants reactors re-started:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14705394

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:57 AM

Sorry, was a bit premature - he is expected to be elected tomorrow!

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 03:28 PM

Was there a disaster? Ya wouldn't know it from the reporting lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:00 PM

Several items in the Japanese papers. These from today's Mainichi Daily News:

-Radioactive rice rumors rampant among Kansai region consumers
-PM's office failed to use data predicting Fukushima power loss, meltdowns.
-Fulushima leaders, residents hold Tokyo rally for full-scale nuclear compensation.
-Noda's Cabinet lineup draws mixed response from crisis-hit survivors.
And the lead article-
Noda Cabinet must mobilize all resources to restore disaster-hit nation.

And something about alternatives-
Japan just beginning to tap into high potential for geothermal power generation.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:07 PM

Thanks Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:23 PM

Yes, I think this story has a few more thousand years to unfold.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:50 PM

The Japanese yen remains high, a refuge currency like the Swiss franc or to some extent the Chinese yuan. It is hurting Japanese exports. The government is trying to weaken their money, but without success.

I don't claim to understand the reason, except that the EU (except Germany) and U.S. economies are busted.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:54 PM

We're all Fuku-ed, basically...

Best to not think about it too much I guess...

And look on the bright side, we can save a whole lotta dosh on our electricity bills when we start to glow in the dark!

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 07:52 AM

RT web page:

http://rt.com/trends/fukushima-nuclear-disaster/?gclid=CPyy-_7JjasCFcSJDgod4A4C_Q

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 09:51 AM

Jim-

Thanks for the above links. Some excellent updates and some predictable spin from nuclear industry shills:

"Events at Fukushima should not be called a nuclear disaster," says John Ritch, Director General of the World Nuclear Association. He explains to RT why he thinks nuclear energy is still one of the safest sources of power – and getting safer.

I don't think Director General Ritch is advocating the closure of all nuclear plants in major earthquake or tsunami zones, however. That would be a logical inference from his argument.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 02:02 PM

Not a new treatment, but an article in the NY Times today. The following from " Nuclear News:"

"Mr. Monetta of Global Laser Enrichment, the General Electric-Hitachi subsidiary, said the envisioned plant would enrich enough uranium annually to fuel up to 60 large reactors. In thoery, that could power more than 42 million homes- about a third of all housing units in the United Ctates."
"The laser advance, hr added, will promote energy security "since it is a domestic source."

Because the method is simpler and more efficient than the old centrifugation, some critics warned of the proliferation of clandestine plants aimed at producing nuclear weapons.

(This technology, like any other, cannot be held secret, since there are capable people everywhere; it is the lack of industrial engineering capability that keeps less advanced technical societies from reproducing it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:46 AM

Good article in The Guardian yesterday:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/09/fukushima-japan-nuclear-disaster-aftermath?INTCMP=SRCH

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:50 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/sep/09/japan-japan-earthquake-and-tsunami?INTCMP=SRCH#/?picture=378738845&index=9

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 05:54 AM

and some more pics as residents are allowed back for 2hrs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/sep/09/residents-brief-return-fukushima?INTCMP=SRCH

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 10:44 AM

Yet another one bites the dust!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14866276

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 01:26 PM

Shortage of doctors and hospital beds in quake-hit area.
"Medical care in tsunami-hit city stretched thin as outflow of doctors continues."
Mainichi Daily News, Sept. 12, 2011.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 02:26 PM

Japan is doing no better than we were after the Katrina hurricane. Massive problems to deal with, hundreds of thousands of impacted people, shifting responsibilities as bureaucrats and executives duck for cover, and what is unique an accident that is still continuing to evolve.

But let's build some more!!!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:33 AM

By Rene Lynch

Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 12, 2011, 5:58 a.m.
At least one person was killed and four injured when a furnace exploded Monday at the Marcoule nuclear waste treatment site in southern France. Authorites say there was no radioactive leakage to the outside.

Evangelia Petit of the Agency for Nuclear Safety confirmed the explosion but declined to provide further details, according to the Associated Press.

The Marcoule nuclear plant is located in Langedoc Roussillon, in southern France, near the Mediterranean Sea.

The site of the blast does not reportedly contain any nuclear reactors. The ANS said that the furnace that exploded is used to break down waste that contains varying levels of radioactivity.

The cause of the blast was not known.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 03:33 PM

"Radiation expert says outcome of nuke crisis hard to predict, warns of future dangers."
Mainichi Daily News, Sept. 13, 2011.
Hiroaki Koide, radiation metrology and nuclear safety expert at Kyoto University's Research reactor Institute.
"The nuclear disaster os ongoing.   with radioactive materials yet to be contained, we've remained in the unsettling state of not knowing how things are going to turn out. ..... I believe that rthere is a possibility that massive amounts of radioactive materials will be released into the environment again."
"At the No. 1 reactor, there's a chance that melted fuel has burned through the bottom of the pressure vessel, the containment vessel, and the floor of the reactor building, and has sunk into the groung. From there, radioactive materials may be seeping into the ocean and groundwater."
He believes containment water is still leaking underground. He calls for "immediate action must be taken to build underground water barriers that would close off the nuclear power plant to the outside world..... The important thing is to stop any further diffusion of radioactive materials."
He outlines other problems, and ends, "Recovering the melted nuclear fuel is another huge challenge. I can't even imagine how that could be done."
(italics mine).

It is worth going to the Mainichi Daily News website and reading the whole article.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/perspectives/news/20110909p2a00m0na016000c.html

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:00 PM

Is there a way to fuse the ground with high volatge power?

I wonder if the are thinking about sheet piling and bentonite injection?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

Here's a more comprehensive update from NIRS from about 3 weeks ago:

UPDATE, August 22, 2011. The New York Times reports that Japan is finally getting ready to acknowledge what we have been saying in this space for months: that the Fukushima evacuation zone is an uninhabitable Dead Zone, and no one will live there again for at least many decades. An official government announcement is expected later this week.

The news follows release of a new radiation survey conducted by the government, which shows contamination levels throughout the evacuation zone to be much higher than previously admitted—up to 500+ MilliSieverts/year (50 Rems/Year) in Okuma, two miles southwest of the reactor site. This is actually about twice as high as radiation levels NIRS measured in Pripyat, Ukraine—about two miles from Chernobyl—in 1996.

But high radiation levels also were measured outside the 20 kilometer (12-mile) exclusion zone. Levels in the town of Namie, for example, 22 kilometers to the northwest of Fukushima Daiichi, were reported at 229 MilliSieverts/year—far above inhabitable levels. It is our (unconfirmed) understanding that most, if not all, of Namie previously had been evacuated, as well as some other towns even further from the reactor site. Thus, the actual Dead Zone is expected to be larger than the 20 kilometer radius.

Evidently there is still real concern that the evolution of this disaster may still continue, with specific focus on Reactor Unit-1.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:45 PM

Somebody must be thinking of vitrifying the whole site with a nuclear bomb.

Somewhat more seriously: since there is a much smaller volume of really hazardous nuclear material than surrounding rock and soil, surely it makes sense to go in there with a mining machine and get it out?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:04 PM

Jack Campin, that is one helluvan idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:15 PM

Jack-

Not a bad idea assuming the workers are appropriately shielded and exposed for an appropriate period of time. That kind of plan would clean up the various "hot spots" in the plant compound.

Unfortunately the fuel rods that have melted and breached the reactor vessel and containment are under the reactor buildings, somewhere, and there is no way that I can think of to get at this high level contamination. Plant officials waited about ten years before they dared to tackled the melted fuel rods at Three Mile Island, and only about 1% (if that) of the public is aware that there was a meltdown of two thirds of the fuel there.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:19 PM

What if the bomb was a tactical weapon? Low kt?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:39 PM

I expect the brains in Japan have thought of this as a 'solution'. However, we've beat them to a few ideas before. Some questions for which I have no answers:

1) would the nuclear debris explode too
2) if it does, how big will the explosion be
3) what kind of crap will end up in the air/ocean
4) how big will the evacuation area have to be

????

It's likely that it would be nearly impossible for a Japanese to push the button. Their culture--despite their government which is a 'benevolent old asylum for the helpless (and connected)'--would strongly militate against that as a solution. Even the cretins in government are of the same culture, whether or not they're more or less pragmatic that the average guy/gal on the street.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:47 PM

How would a bomb of any type address the fuel that may have melted down into the ground? I don't understand how a bomb can vitrify the site. Please edify me.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:49 PM

I wish I could, gnu. Nuclear bombs are just like any other explosive in terms of producing light, sound, heat from the detonation. If it were detonated underground, much of the fallout could be averted.

However, moot point. Isn't that area on a fault line--or real near one?

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 08:19 AM

Here's a video clip and summary report updating what has been happening at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex, as prepared by TEPCO and distributed by the nuclear industry promoters: click here for report!

Evidently the recent typhoon only damaged some of the video monitoring equipment.

There does appear to be some progress in stabilizing what is happening in this nuclear disaster. There will still be a very long clean-up involved.

TEMPCO is still promoting its technology for export, along with a huge inventory of highly radioactive debris (yes, I added that in).

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 03:55 PM

A bomb would just aid the spread of radioactive material in groundwater.
Moreover, the melted material would be at a very shallow depth, so little chance of confining radioactivity from the blast.

Latest in Mainichi Daily News:

Prime Minister Noda expressed confidence that the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima plant will be brought under control in the not-too-distant future.
Noda said Japan stands ready to continue to export its technology and expertise to emerging economies seeking to introduce nuclear facilities.....

Hoshono, minister for prevention of nuclear accidents, hopes that cold shutdown can be achieved at Fukushima by the end of the year, and that substantially lower emissions of radioactive substances can also be achieved by January.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Sep 11 - 05:58 PM

999-

Talk about complete lack of control of radioactive emissions - nuke the plant!

You can't be serious, I hope.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:02 PM

Cleaanup costs at the Los Alamos Laboratory, New Mexico, estimated to cost over $2 billion dollars.

Cleaning Area B, 6 acres, took 3 years and cost $212 million. Cleanup crews had no idea of the area content- they found contaminated pickup trucks among the waste.

The lab complex covers 40 square miles.
Area G, 63 acres, is full of barrels of plutonium-bearing waste, and is of grave concern to the state. Underneath the area are canals to drain leakage, a concern to groundwater.
Authorities have no idea of the contents of many areas, since no records were kept.

In addition to the large on-site area needing cleanup, in the early days, radioactive runoff from experiments was allowed to run over the cliffs and into canyons and streams.

$358 million asked for the next part of cleanup was pared to $185 million by Congress, well below the amount needed to fill the next consent decree.

No doubt a large area in northern New Mexico will suffer for centuries.

The area abuts Indian pueblos, and prime tourist, forest and traditional and licensed hunting and trout-fishing grounds, as well as the town of Los Alamos.

"Los Alamos Under Renewed Pressure to Remove Dangerous Toxic Wastes." Associated Press, October 1, 2011, Jeri Clausing.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:15 PM

Holy fuck! That is unreal!

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 11:14 AM

Q and gnu-

We (anti-nukers) used to report these clean-up estimates on a regular basis back in the 1980's, when countering the nuclear industry's claims that their power was cheap, safe and efficient. Not many listened, unless there was a nuclear dump in their own back yard or one that was targeted for their area.

The clean-up costs for high-level nuclear waste storage facilities at Hanford in Washington state certainly rival those in New Mexico. Anyone else want additional depressing news from my way-back files?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 05:49 PM

Not really but the more info you disseminate, even just here, the better. Go for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 06:06 PM

HOw much Ukranian farmland is still unusable? How has that affected economy and progress in Ukraine? mg