BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 02:41 PM

Hey Charlie ... The point I was trying to make (I didn't cmake myself clear) was that this head guy from NB Power was going on about in the event of the possibility of an earthquake and how we shouldn't be concerned ... after all that has happened we are aware it isn't the earthquake that has caused the issues over in Japan but the ensuing 'tidal wave'.

Of course the odds are there probabbly won't be an earthquke of such magnitude here in N.B. ... but .....

Anyway ... Maine had the sense to close down it's nuke stations.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 02:55 PM

NHKnews-
Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano states temperatures are rising at reators 5 and 6 due to malfunctioning of cooling systems caused by the quake.
He said workers were trying to prevent possible hydrogen gas explosions similar to that in the number four reactor.

All reactors now seem to be involved. Extent of damage at number 2 not known. The rods were completely exposed for 8 hours.

Injection of water into number 2 reactor is not yet stable. Early on Tuesday, radiation levels as high as 8217 microsieverts per hour were measured around the plant's main entrance, but have since dropped drastically. Detected levels in Tokyo "pose no health danger."
Tuesday, March 15, 18:53+ (0900)JST.

NHK ustream has clear, easily understood broadcasters. No tidal damage is expected from the 6.4 earthquake.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 03:07 PM

SINS... indeed.

Sandy... I knew what you meant. I think Charley was just reading too fsat. He means well, you know. >:-)

LH... two hours by road. Hahahahaa. Good one.

sIx... LePreau is a CANDU built in one of the least active seismic zones in the world on ordovician (440 to 490M years ago) bedrock. The reinforced concrete containment was as thick as yer dick and it's been thickened during the refurbishment. The only seismic event that could fuck up LePreau is if the bedrock sheared vertically AT the reactor building and have more faith in me winning the $50M Lotto Max. CANDUs, as Sandy has pointed out, have redundant automatic and manual shutdown systems augmented by fail-safe, redundant automatic and manual powerless shutdown mechanisms.

If you are concerned about LePreau, a letter to the editor of the Telegraph lauding the actions by our new premier in shelving the study of having the French build a light water reactor instead of a CANDU for LePreau 2 should be a consideration.

Having said all that (which is a brief and partial "summary"), I see someone in Ontario won the $50M. Better get some fresh iodide pills next summer. Let me know if you find a good deal eh buddy?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 03:18 PM

Charley... "Major earthquakes appear unlikely but either one could be compromised by a terrorist raid from the ground, sea or air."

They would have to have a nuke to mess up LePreau.

sIx... "after all that has happened we are aware it isn't the earthquake that has caused the issues over in Japan but the ensuing 'tidal wave'."

A tsunami ain't shit against twenty feet of re-con and redundant redundant redundant redundant auto and manual shutdown systems. If there is a tsunami big enough to mess with LePreau, say hi to St. Peter for me. The guys at LePreau won't get the chance.

Of course, I live in Moncton and if the tsunami is that big I'll see you at the Tim's about an hour after you get there... hang a left just after the Pearly Gates. And DON'T forget to put in a good word for me with Pete.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 03:26 PM

gnu... "The guys at LePreau won't get the chance."

Yeah, I know. Don't make no sense. What I meant to say was... you know... illogical too. Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 03:43 PM

A tsunami ain't shit against twenty feet of re-con and redundant redundant redundant redundant auto and manual shutdown systems.

Where's the spent fuel stored?

Looks like a large part of the problem at Fukushima is with stuff that's had no fission activity for years. Shutdown systems aren't very relevant there.

North-east North America doesn't have much of a seismic problem, but it is at risk from hurricane damage and storm surges.

On-site waste storage is the predominant way of dealing with it in many countries. We are now seeing the implications.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 03:51 PM

I give up, Jack. Where is it stored? As it's non-enriched, what is it's propensity to generate heat and how could this be facilitated by, say, a dry environment, given that a lack of heavy water... well, I am a layman so I will have to leave it to the experts to educate me. Feel free Jack. I would appreciate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: pdq
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 04:11 PM

Sad fact is that there is nothing any of us can do to help.

Appologies to Tom Lehrer, but the Japanese reactor problems are enough to leave all of us "...feeling a bit like a Christian Scientist with appendicitis".

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 04:13 PM

sIx... I just heard on CBC NB that people living near LePreau are issued iodide pills fer free. You get any?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 04:39 PM

gnu .... out of curiosity I went to to Shopper's Drug Mart on Saturday ... one pharmacist didn't have a clue what they were ... another knew what they were but said they didn't carry them.

We're out of range of LePreau to be issued any ... so when when the reinforced concrete containment falls apart due to shoddy workmanship we're SOL

shoddy workmanship e.g. every 2 bit huckster contractor in the vicinity has been ripping off N.B power for $millions$ on the never ending refurbishment ... but then again the rate their going on that it will never be completed.

Anyway ... maybe ... hopefully out of this tragedy over in Japan nuclear power will become a thing of the past and other ways of producing bona fide clean power will become a reality ... after all the Bay of Fundy has the highest tides in the world ... that is power to create power ... and yes, it can be done.

so with that being said I'll stop my babbling gnu ... I'll meet at the Tim Horton's up in Salisbury (right by the Big Stop) when the big tidal wave hits .... :)

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 05:28 PM

sIx... I was just out for a mercy run for mum... a large ice cap as she has been ill and her appetite is squat. Long story but I had to go to a Tim's further than 2kms away (There are three closer... fer fuck sake! Why don't they have fail safe redundant ice cap machines???!!!). When I was on the 4 lane a spit from me I realized that I am located just above sea level. My comment about the tsunami was justified but now I realize it's actually very much justified.

I'd rather meet at The Big Stop. Good grub. I expect they have Big Stops in heaven. Surely the Irvings have that franchise sewn up too? After all, KC was God at one time, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 05:40 PM

Q-

Thanks for the update you've harvested from NHK News. That's more information than I've been able to find today.

I do owe apologies to several Forum members that I've jumped all over in my hurry to present my new information or point of view. Sandy certainly had a valid point to make about the difference between a nuclear bomb and a nuclear explosion at a power plant. Both would be horrible events but the nuclear bomb is designed to be more devastating.

I'm not sure where they store the "spent nuclear fuel" in the CANDO reactors after it is removed. But it has to be some place that is safe and secure because it remains highly radioactive (as is all high-level nuclear waste) for thousands of years. The advantage of "dry cask storage" that is being using at the old Maine Yankee site is that it's a passive system that requires no liquid coolant. That's not true of the "spent fuel pools" at the Fukushima reactors and that's another reason why units 4, 5 and 6 are of increasing concern.

I'll see what I can find out about spent fuel storage at the LePreau Nuclear Power Plant.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 05:50 PM

According to the Point Lepreau Nuclear Power Plant official website this is what's done with the spent nuclear fuel:

"Irradiated (spent) fuel

A fuel bundle typically stays in the reactor between six months to 18 months. This irradiated fuel (or spent fuel) is removed from the reactor via automated fueling machines and stored underwater in a spent fuel bay. The fuel is stored in water for two reasons: the water is a good shield from radiation, and the water carries the heat away from the irradiated fuel bundle. After seven years, the radioactivity and heat have decreased enough to allow the irradiated fuel to be transferred to dry storage in concrete canisters above ground. The canisters are on the property of PLGS and are constantly monitored."

Japan would have one less major worry if they had done the same.

There is also an interesting Wikipedia page on the Point Lepreau Nuclear Power Plant which provides an overview of its history, some of which is disquieting.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:01 PM

CNN just announced that a fire has broken out again within Unit 4 at the Fukushima-1 complex. That is not good.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:35 PM

Nuclear plants looming remind me of the day of the triffids.

No, this is not good, but it's been bloody well-contained so far. Here's going with ingenuity and hopes.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 06:49 PM

Before the new fire broke out, Tepco was going to dump water on number 4 by helicopter. Don't know how the fire will affect that.

Wolf Bluster et al. at CNN are going ballistic about the new fire at number 4 building, but it may not be important. BBC says Tepco fighting it.
NHK hasn't updated their English services yet to cover this.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 07:02 PM

I prodded a fellow co-worker to look into Potassium Iodine for his new born. Surprisingly, the pediatrician prescribed it. Less surprising - it is in short supply.
West Coast and New Brunswick, Ca are stockpiling. Panic?
I won't get any for myself. But won't turn down any for the babies I know who may need it. A six hour window of opportunity according to some news reports.
In some ways I find this all very funny. We have arrogantly abused every resource on this planet claiming "we need it". Now we reap what we have sown. Kind of like watching abully on a sitcom get his.
inappropriate? Yes. Honest? Yes.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 07:04 PM

Onward strode the magnificent 50
manning the pumps for family and city
through nuclear fire, and bosses who lie
Burned every hour til the last of them die


Never give up no matter how hopeless
No matter how painful no matter how long
A full year of burns in only an hour.
None of the 50 would cry out or cower.

They knew of the secrets, the money and danger
They did it for family but what made it stranger
Was the people who bombed them gave them this gift.
Now they are buried

in a deep steaming rift.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 07:33 PM

SINS.... NB is not in panic. BCers are not in panic... just being prudent as the want of Canucks. It's the Boy Sprout attitude.

Charley... "There is also an interesting Wikipedia page on the Point Lepreau Nuclear Power Plant which provides an overview of its history, some of which is disquieting."

Back that up eh? Why should I be alarmed?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 07:42 PM

A powerful poem, Donuel.

NPR and CNN this evening was finally trying to puzzle out the threat of the spent fuel pools (which for some reason they're referring to as "ponds"); it's gradually sinking in that if they catch fire, after a loose of coolant, radioactive isotopes will be billowing up in a cloud of smoke and steam. There is no containment structure around or over the spent fuel pool, other than the sheet metal walls of the reactor building, which for Units 1 and 3 were blown away.

There is also discussion of dropping water or sand onto the reactors by helicopter, which might be helpful in the situation of units 1 & 3 were the reactor primary containment is exposed. I'm not sure what would be accomplished if there was still a roof on the reactor building.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 07:59 PM

I would assume the sand drop would not be on rooves.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: bobad
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 08:27 PM

I shouldn't think that there is a great likelihood of much I¹³¹ reaching North America as it is heavier than air and has a half life of eight days.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 08:52 PM

the language to sell America Nuclear plutonium breeder atomic reactors was crafted very carefully.

The reactors are "PLANTS"
the toxic waste refridgerated cantainemt bunkers are "PONDS"
The deadly radioactive elements are "Pellets"

The pellets in the plants are in ponds. tra la.

Radioactive gas under pressure is "STEAM"
The power plants produce is "CLEAN"
Oops thers is water in the basement.

To "Educate" the unwashed public today I saw colorful animated graphics of a reactor. The rods where seen end on and were bright yellow happy faces. The bright blue water went round and round.
the water in the plant goes round and round.

In Japan the public relations page for the Fukushima plant had had hello kitty cutesy faces on little cooling towers.

clean safe cheap clean safe cheap the mantra chant is never ending.


Part of shaping public oipinion is to not tell the public when things go wrong for a minimum of 3 days be it 3 mile Island, Chernobyl or Fukushima.

IF they do get caught there is no such thing as an accident.

THERE WAS AN INCIDENT

so minor its not worth talking about
why you silly people panic over nothing is stupid. People who panic are morbid.

Don't you worry your silly little head about this, let the big boys handle it. Now get me a beer and wash the dishes.

NO ONE EVER DIED AT 3 MILE ISLAND
NO ONE EVER DIED AT CHERNOBYL except a few firemen.
NO ONE DID or WILL DIE AT FUKUSHIMA, this is miniscule incident compared to the earthquake.


OK OK so a little bit of radiation was vented...
it has a half life of 7 seconds and poof its gone.

_______________________________________________

I need to say that the lies above the line dishonor all the people who have died in horrible twisted and slow ways because of nuclear power reactors breaking down.

FOX NEWS today glorified the safety of nuclear power and deamonize all the ignorant people who enjoy spreading panic.

IT IS NOT SPREADING PANIC WHEN WE ARE CONTENDING WITH POISONS THAT HAVE A LONG HALF LIFE.

THINGS LIKE URANIUM AND PLUTONIUM

GO AHEAD AND GOOGLE THEIR HALF LIVES AND LEARN FOR YOURSELF.


PS
the name they gave to a mixture of uranium and plutonium to fuel the reactor is MOX. they even have a nickname of the radioactive lava that is the rsult of a meltdown, its real cute.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 09:07 PM

Doctors and pharmacists in Alberta and British Columbia are telling everyone that potassium iodide is absolutely not needed. The radioactive iodine in any cloud drifting this way would be dispersed long before it reaches this area (or any of Canada).

Alberta has no reactors, nor does the provincial government have any interest in them at this time. Out of curiosity, I looked at the sources of our electricity- 44% coal, 41% natural gas (increasing), 7% hydro, 6% wind. Little liklihood of solar here- dark winters.
British Columbia is 86% hydro, 9% biomass, 6% natural gas.
Neighboring Washington is 84% hydro, 9% wind and 4% nuclear (one plant).

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 09:09 PM

Q, is there still a push to have one built near Peace River?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 09:21 PM

Doneul-

I haven't been watching Fox News. I can't bear to watch them do their work.

Oh, the other structural update is the roof was now reported caved in at Unit 4.

But I was favorably impressed with what Elliot Spitzer was doing this evening on his CNN hour. Among his guests was a whistle-blower nuclear engineer who heading up a study group that concluded the Mark-1 reactor (the type at Futushima) could not safely deal with a lose of coolant from a pipe break. He was not satisfied with the response from GE and eventually quit. His concerns were proven true in this case, not because of a coolant pipe break but because the back-up generators which powered the pumps were disabled by the tsunami, which produced a similar type of problem.

I also learned a bit more about the spent fuel pool design of the Mark-1. The reason the pool is located above the primary containment is for convenience in moving the spent fuel assemblies out of the reactor to the pool. After the spent fuel is cooled for a year or so, it would then be shifted to a larger common spent fuel pool that would service all six reactors at the Fukushima complex.

Because reactors 4, 5, and 6 were shutdown prior to the earthquake for maintenance, their fuel was removed to the adjacent pools and was quite fresh and hot. That is part of the problem, especially if there is a loss of coolant for the pools from a pool container rupture or from a breakdown in coolant resupply.

I still wonder what the status is of the spent fuel pools in units 1, 2 and 3, after the various hydrogen explosions. And I've posed that question to the Union of Concerned Scientists on their website.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 09:34 PM

FOX will give a soap box to the disaster deniers but they have had good people others wont broadcast.

There is adear old geologist friend who has for years predicted earthqwuakes by animal behavior and full moons.

SOme of the animal behavior are fish and whale beachings, some are lost dog and cat epidemics, some are birds falling from the sky or migrating opposite directions.
He believes that before an earthquake magnetic fields get twisted.
He is correct that the full moon this month between 15-23 is in fact going to be physically closer to the earth than it will be again unitl 2016.   He really did predict the san Fran world series earthquake. and about 6 others.

HE is, I swear to God, predicting an earthquake for the US northwest coast and British Columbia this month since the animals suggest it and the closest full moon ever coincides with high tides and recent quakes elsewhere on the ring of fire.

Not all FOX guests are uninteresting.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 09:40 PM

gnu - What I meant was, I feel a lot safer being 2 hours northwest of the Pickering nuclear facility than if I was living, say, 5 miles away from it...and on the leeward side of the prevailing winds which pass over it (they usually come from the west).

Subject: The heroic fifty have just bugged out
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 10:43 PM

BUlletine NHK just announced that the last fifty workers are now gone or have left the plant








Onward strode the magnificent 50
manning the pumps for family and city
through nuclear fire, and bosses who lie
Burned every hour til the last of them die


Never give up no matter how hopeless
No matter how painful no matter how long
A full year of burns in only an hour.
None of the 50 would cry out or cower.

They knew of the secrets, the money and danger
They did it for family but what made it stranger
Was the people who bombed them gave them this gift.
So fucx this! were gettin out of this shit

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 10:49 PM

No one is left to run the store.

The Govrnment is telling people that what will happen will only amount to getting an X ray...who is buying this shit?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:02 PM

Has the containment vessel been ruptured?

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:02 PM

No one is there to know one way or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:03 PM

It seems clear from the TESCO spokesman that the reason the remaining 50 workers were withdrawn was because of rapidly increasing levels of radiation. Unit 2 is now smoking as well. This nuclear accident is now approaching the Chernobyl level.

The only good news is that prevailing winds are still heading out to sea and are expected to do so for the next few days.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Mar 11 - 11:49 PM

"The only good news is that prevailing winds are still heading out to sea and are expected to do so for the next few days."

Which means it's on its way here. :(

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: J-boy
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 01:52 AM

"Oh God, Oh God, We're all gonna die?"- Hoban "Wash" Washburne

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 03:01 AM

What a surprise. I never thought that I would die. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM

Quake. Tsunami. Mudslides. Meltdown.

Now even the food and water that can be distributed may become contaminated.

Horrifying.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 07:08 AM

Just read on Rogers Yahoo News... All those remaining were pulled out for almost an hour on Wednesday because radiation levels were too high, but they were later allowed to return.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 07:40 AM

Imagine your workplace looking like this...

Daily Telegraph picture: inside the damaged plant

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 07:52 AM

Gnu-

It's not certain from the reports I've read and heard that the radiation levels have dropped enough to permit the workers to function back on the Fukushima site. There is a plan to send them back, announced late last night, but everyone knows that it is pointless to send them in if they'll die from radiation exposure within an hour or less.

The Union of Concerned Scientists have an excellent discussion and graphic posted this morning of the spent fuel pool issues at the Fukushima complex: click here for report!

In summary, as I feared, the spent fuel pools contain more fuel rods than existed within any of the reactors on site such as 1, 2, and 3. And if the coolant levels in their pools continue to go down, their zirconium cladding will ignite and we will have a radioactive fuel fire with no protecting containment. That would seem to be the evolving situation in units 4, 5, and 6. No one has mentioned what has happened within the spent fuel pools of reactors 1, 2 and 3; it's possible that the spent fuel temporarily stored there had been removed to the centralized spent fuel pool on site prior to the earthquake and tsunami.

J-Boy and Eddie-

I'm not sure I understand your posts above. Is this some attempt at gallows humor?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 07:59 AM

gnu ... it is beyond horrifying.

Geeezuz .... I can't even imagine what these people are going through.

Nature can certainly deliver a hard whallop to humans ... but this meltdown goat f**k is like a man made coup degrace (without any mercy).

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 08:08 AM

Jack-

That photo certainly looks awful. I've just noticed the artwork on what remains of the outside of the reactor building, the lovingly painted clouds on a blue background...

But it's what we can't see, the radiation, that's truly terrifying and the uncertainty of what will happen next.

(Note to Mudcat moderators: feel free to delete the following sentence)

There has to be a special hell for those who designed this nuclear power plant complex and argued that it would never endanger the environment or the public.

I forget where this old slogan came from:

"The risks are all acceptable! Acceptable to who?"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 09:08 AM

I've asked the Union of Concerned Scientists why they think the staff at the neighboring Fukushima 2 plant were evidently successful in achieving "cold shut-down" of their four operating reactors after the earthquake and tsunami, while experiencing a similar loss of energy supply to the back-up cooling pumps. See Wikipedia Fukushima Nuclear Plant 2 for reference.

Fukushima 1 appears to have similar reactor models (Mark 1) but 6 units compared with 4 units at Fukushima 2. They are in close geographic proximity. Were the effects of the earthquake and tsunami markedly different? Or was it what the operating staff did, or didn't do, with what resources they had available? This question belongs in "lessons to be learned."

I need to correct one of my statements posted above relating to the Three Mile Island accident in 1979. It took over 5 years, not 1 year as I remembered, before scientists were able to examine the bottom of the reactor vessel and confirm that there was a partial meltdown of the fuel rods (over 50%) in the containment vessel, and that the "melt" had eaten through the vessel walls. The containment dome fortunately functioned as designed. By that time media attention had shifted to other issues and the public by and large is unaware that there was a meltdown at Three Mile Island.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 09:11 AM

Kyodo news agency: latest update of known status of Fukushima reactors

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 10:10 AM

MSNBC says that 180 workers have been brought into the plant. And the maximum allowable dosage of radiation for a worker has been increased to allow some to stay.
If I were in Japan and pregnant I would be sick with fear. If I were the parent of a small child there, I would be frantic. I miss the humor in all this too, Charley.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 10:26 AM

Thanks, Peter, for posting that link above to the Kyodo News Agency which largely confirms what I have said about what is happening at both Fukushima 1 and Fukushima 2 (two separate but neighboring nuclear power complexes).

It makes more sense to have a workforce of 180 with shifts of 50 or so, than a skeleton crew of 50 trying to do everything. Of course they are endangered but hopefully their efforts will help save others.

Fears about radiation reaching the United States at levels dangerous to human health are overblown, in my opinion. But as experts have pointed out, it's not just a function of distance from the crippled reactors that is important.

The health risk for the Japanese public is much higher, and pretty much tied to the whim of the winds. The prevailing winds for the next day or two are expected to blow out to sea which is good news in a bad situation. But the process of meltdown at the Fukushima 1 complex is most likely going to continue for a week or longer. And it will be weeks before clean-up of radioactive deposits can be safely attempted. If there are more explosions and fires, the health risk will become much more dire and the clean-up will become much more complex.

No useful further info from CNN or MSNBC.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 11:01 AM

The NRC has become a joke. A 9.0 (largest in history).

Diablo and San Onofre next? (California alert)

Nuclear disarmament starts with shutting down the nukes.

Who wants to argue now about global warming (climate change?)

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 11:25 AM

The point was made last night that storing of spent fuel rods inside the plant, in water pools, would not be allowed today, and in the newer plants is NOT done. Fukushima is that old.
   The USA has, I believe, 23 reactors of the basic design of Fukushima.

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM

Stringsinger-

Agreed.

I finally was able to view a clear image of Unit-4 of the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant-1 and the reactor building no longer has a roof or side paneling. I'm not sure if that resulted from the fires or an explosion or both. The concern has to be what is happening with its spent fuel pool, is there any coolant left, can it be resupplied at this point or is it too late?

Unit's 5 and 6 seem to be in better shape. There has been some increase in temperature in their spent fuel pools but not a dangerous increase.

If I had friends or family in Japan at this point, I would urge them if possible to leave before the prevailing winds shift inland. That may seem alarmist to some on this forum but I and people who know a whole lot more than I about nuclear power that I respect are alarmed.

This is an unfolding situation which is difficult to keep one step ahead of, which strikes me as a awkward way to put it but it's the best I can do this morning. Anyone got a more positive spin?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Mar 11 - 11:57 AM

No Charley.
And the long term effect on the world economy worries me. Oil prices, cars (you have to know that there will be those who will not buy a "contaminated" car from Japan even if it is manufactured in Idaho). Japan's ability to pay for imports will cause problems. Their incoming tourist dollars will be non-existant. At the same time, construction companies will thrive assuming there is money to build.
Fishing boats in Japan and on the west coast have been destroyed. Enough to affect the size of the catch and the price of seafood?
So many bits and pieces to look at.