Binnorie

Subject: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:26 AM

Rapunzel & Sedayne: Binnorie

Classic Folk Horror from the Border Ballad tradition. This comes from the Northumbrian Minstrelsy, using the old Northumbria Tune, which sounds more Sephardic to our ears, so we explore this in terms of an improvised medieval lai, or somesuch trance-dancing piece of ceremonial storytelling. Binnorie is believed to be a contraction of By Norham; Norham Castle stands impressively above the River Tweed, and seems as likely a setting as any for this classic tale. Recorded entirely live, Easter 2011, as rehearsal for our ballad gig at the Morpeth Northumbrian Gathering the following week.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: Megan L
Date: 30 May 11 - 09:23 AM

Found some interesting info at this site tobar an dualchais

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:28 PM

Cheers, Megan L - that's a lovely old recording & a joy for sure.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: Megan L
Date: 30 May 11 - 03:33 PM

Drat i was so busy trying to remember how to do things here i forgot to say thank you the version you posted was different from what i am used to but quite haunting.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 31 May 11 - 03:29 AM

Nice to hear an alternate tune to Binnorie Suibne, thus far I was only aware of Ewan's recording (rendered Minnorie) which somehow feels a tad too 'perky' for such a tale of misery for me to try singing it.

Has this resource you linked to been flagged up on Mudcat before Megan? Because if not then it probably deserves a thread of it's own.

http://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/en/

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 May 11 - 04:00 AM

As to that, lively, I have frequently relished the polarity between the tragic content of a song and the perkiness of its tune. The Bonnie lass Of Fyvie has always struck me as a prime example of such.

Think this worth a new thread. Shall start one.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 04:29 AM

What is the usual tune to Binnorie? The one we do was considered ancient even at the time of The Northumbrian Minstrelsy, and the others I know are similarly effecting. More often than not you hear the Lay the Bent to the Bonny Broom melody (and refrains) misplaced from Child #1 & popularised by Pentangle as The Cruel Sister.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 04:47 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if all the clicky links & asides came after the thread rather than before it? Serves as a mighty distraction to the business in hand...

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 31 May 11 - 06:17 AM

Well I wouldn't know how 'usual' it is as such (though it may perhaps be in the context of the revival, considering Ewan's enduring influence) but the only tune I've heard is the one used by him in 'Minorie':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZRtWZQ-Za4&playnext=1&list=PLE25240B0ABEFEB4D

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 31 May 11 - 06:19 AM

Or are you using the same melody, just somewhat slower?

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 06:35 AM

That's one of the other tunes I know, lively - very different. The Minstrelsy tune, as I say, has a Sephardic modality about it which doesn't feel Northumbrian in the slightest, and not so easy to make palatable to Jock McFolk with jolly guitar accompaniments & suchlike.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 31 May 11 - 07:53 AM

Well, that was what I thought initially and then afterwards I thought maybe I needed to get my ears waxed..

But as to the long lists of associated links you have to scroll through before reaching the contents of a thread, yes, I've no idea why they sit at the top rather than as an 'appendix' at the bottom. But no doubt there must be a reason.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 10:12 AM

But no doubt there must be a reason.

On Mudcat? I doubt it; here it's just endless personality cults, cringing sycophancy and walls of bewildered silence. One of the reasons I gave up on the Landfill project was the blue wilderness you had to wade through prior to the thread. There will be a re-lauched though - back by popular demand! So once I get a few more contributions in it'll be back in the dog-days of July - or so they promise us...

Do you sing by any chance, lively? If so might be persuade you to lend a track or two? Any format - sing into your mobile phone as one recent punter has promised!

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 May 11 - 10:24 AM

Bronson lists over 100 versions, ranging from quite sprightly to sombre in tone. DT has a fair representation of versions. Try a search or Child #10

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 May 11 - 10:51 AM

Thanks for posting your version. I like the interweaving sounds of voice and instruments.

Where exactly did you get the tune? You say "using the old Northumbria tune." That sounds like the name of a hymn tune. (I did some searching on 'Northumbrian Minstrelsy' and didn't find this tune.)

Perhaps my early-music group would like to play this tune.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 11:47 AM

Cheers, Leeneia - this is the melody given by Bruce and Stokoe in The Northumbrian Minstrelsy - they describe as a True Northumbrian tune never before published (1882). I call it ancient because I sense something here that echoes various Sephardic songs, such as Porque LLorax Blanca Nina, that just isn't found in British balladry as a rule.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 May 11 - 11:48 AM

Oops...

Cheers, Leeneia - this is the melody given by Bruce and Stokoe in The Northumbrian Minstrelsy - they describe as a True Northumbrian tune never before published (1882). I call it ancient because I sense something here that echoes various Sephardic songs, such as Porque LLorax Blanca Nina, that just isn't found in British balladry as a rule.

Subject: RE: Binnorie
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 May 11 - 11:56 AM

Thanks for the info. I agree that it sounds very archaic.