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BS: Let America be America Again......
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Subject: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:26 AM ....The land that never was and yet shall be. Those words by Langston Hughes have been in my mind for a long time. I generally love what America could be but hate what it is. Today, America is what it could be. The following can now be officially told to FUCK OFF!!!! Boehner, McConnell, Romney, Cantor, Romney, and every other fuckwit jackass who has tried to keep America down so they could defeat Obama. They might do that but America won big today. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:35 AM Obamacare upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:40 AM ...........yeah...............ain't that great? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:46 AM States are left the option of refusing the Federal Governments Medicaid expansion. You're not quite there yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Wesley S Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:25 AM I'll be listening to Rush Limbaugh at noon today. I'm sure he'll need a few Oxycontin to get through the show. And all the other Republiklan talk show host should be livid today. What a birthday present. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:37 AM With the first headline my heart jumped and my spirits lifted immeasurably. Bless his pointy little head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:38 AM A situation where you have 9 esteemed judges...and 5 of them vote for something...and 4 of them vote against it... Well, that's a situation where it does become a legally established position. But...people can also argue against it forever, because how strong is the position of an opinion of 5 informed people over 4 informed people? Sounds kind of like the average election victory...only that's more like 5 of the uninformed over 4 of the uninformed. ;-) And people argue over that forever too. American doesn't need to become America to get a decent health care system. It needs to become Sweden or France or Norway. That's not going to happen, though, so never mind. What I'm saying above has nothing to do with being either for or against Obama. Nor does it have anything to do with supporting the conservative position or, God forbid, cheering on the Republicans. I loathe the Republicans. Obamacare, however, has mostly been a government give-away to the private health insurance sector rather than the kind of progressive health care plan one might have hoped for, based on the hopes people had for Obama when he was elected. You'd almost think the private health insurance care sector wrote the plan! ;-) Well, maybe they did. Maybe that was the real plan all along. You know what I call Obama's form of Democratism? Stealth Republicanism! It accomplishes what the Republicans would, if in office, but not so anyone seems to notice...because people go by outer labels, not by reality. If their "team" is winning, they're happy, even while the stadium burns down around them. NDAA, for instance...that is an even more draconian assault on the civil rights of Americans than Bush's Patriot Act was. It is unconstitutional. Even Bush couldn't get away with something like that, but it's just the kind of thing he would have done if he could have gotten away with it. Most people didn't even seem to notice when Obama got it passed while they were celebrating New Year's last January. The Republicans didn't notice (except for Ron Paul). Hell, it's the kind of thing they would have done anyway. The Democrats didn't notice...because Obama did it, and he's a "good guy". So it must be okay, whatever it is, right? That's what I call stealth Republicanism. Or fascism. You've really got only one political party down there, you just haven't figured it out yet. If you could vote out the big banks, you might then be able to do something about changing that. Maybe. Unless they declared martial law, and started "disappearing" the people who didn't like it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: katlaughing Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:49 AM Fantastic! Thanks, Spaw...I hadn't see the news yet when I opened this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 12 - 11:58 AM But, hey...I DO get why you're all so happy about this. Specially with another election on. Your team just won a big round, and the other team lost, so of course you're happy. ;-) Understood. This strengthens your team and makes it seem less likely that the Republicans will win the election. Yup. Why wouldn't you be happy? The fact that I simply don't believe in either one of your teams puts me in a different spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: wysiwyg Date: 28 Jun 12 - 12:10 PM ....The land that never was and yet shall be. Amen! ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jun 12 - 12:11 PM This is a bit harsh, Little Hawk, because I am not saying that you "don't care" but too often, imo, you come across this way. "A human being without the proper empathy or feeling is the same as an android built so as to lack it, either by design or mistake. We mean, basically, someone who does not care about the fate that his fellow living creatures fall victim to; he stands detached, a spectator, acting out by his indifference John Donne's theorem that "No man is an island," but giving the theorem a twist: That which is a mental and moral island is not a Man." (The Shifting Realities of Philip K. Dick) {Posted on Facebook by Max Spiegel} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 12:42 PM It should be good news for the economy. The "Conservatives" have been whining about how uncertainty is bad, while making things as uncertain as they could. Here is more certainty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:00 PM I'm not up to speed with this legislation, maybe someone can explain. The Times in the UK says that everyone is to be forced to take out private health insurance....If they do not they are to be taken to court and face a haevy fine. Why is this a "good" thing? Why do you think that this brings a national health service nearer? I should think that this will turn out to be a gravy train for the insurance companies. Maybe that's what Jack means when he says it will be good for the economy...:0) I think Hawk is right and this is simply a political game which has made one teams chances a little brighter. and democracy a little dimmer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: number 6 Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:12 PM I'm also with LH on this. It's stealth politiks. Ake is correct ... it's not bringing national health care sevice nearer and yes, it will be a gravy train for the insurance companies. bill ... who lives in a country that does have a national health care service. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:17 PM Yeah, this seems to be one of those "2 steps forward" kinda day... Of course, since we still have Eric "The Wiesel" Cantor & Johnny Bonehead grandstanding with their meaningless vote later today to hold the country's Attorney General in Contempt of Congress the "1 step back" ain't far behind... BTW, while I would much rather have seen a single payer system we'll take what we have for now but the Repubs are correct in that it will need replacing but wrong on the replacement... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:31 PM A congressional majority of Republicans and Romney as president will throw out the health care legislation. Unfortunately, very possible. Any "victory" will be temporary unless Obama and a Democrat Congress are elected. The Court ruling only stated (by one vote) that the tax in the Obama legislation is permissible. Insurance is part of the American system, "gravy train" or not. We all have (or should have) insurance against liability and on our property. The alternative is to fund health insurance with taxes. This was seen as impossible by Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:35 PM akenaton The legislation has a number of provisions. That mandate is one of them. It would be more accurate to say that if you can afford it you will pay a fine. It was a compromise. Other provisions are things like no refusal of coverage for pre-existing conditions, coverage of youths on their parents' plans until 26 years old and other consumer focused provisions. Requiring health insurance companies to spend 85% of revenue providing health care. There ware also provisions for computerized records sharing and other cost saving measures. I think it has had a positive impact on reducing overall health care costs as insurance companies have started to comply with the regulations. It is not NHS for sure, but since Gov Romney implemented a very similar plan in Mass. The effects seem to have been positive. It is likely to be even better with the economies of scale of a national program. Our health care system is so badly broken that any steps to improve are going to be better than the status quo. We spend twice as much per person as Canada. Canada has 100% insurance coverage. The US has less than 80% coverage. SOMETHING needed to be done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Elmore Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:38 PM I think Roberts made a wise decision. I don't agree with his politics, but respect his intellect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:44 PM I'm surprised he was the deciding vote. But not as surprised as I would be had it been Thomas or Scalia or Alito. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:44 PM Thanks for the info Jack, I'm having a look on the net. The "compulsory" aspect is surely a big negative? Health insurance is not like motor or property insurance, we do not choose to be born into the human race, in the way we would choose to drive a car or own a house? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:04 PM The argument is that everyone is part of the health care system and will use it at some point so those who do not pay now are putting an unfair burden on those who do buy insurance. Kind of like, you benefit from the roads and ports whether you use them or not, I guess. I don't like the idea that insurance companies and private hospitals make spending priorities. But then I am not an Ayn Randian who believes that self interest is in the public interest. But this rationale does make for a better system than we have now. The Insurance companies have more revenue but they are required to spend 85% of that on providing care means, theoretically at least, that they will be competing to provide more efficient care. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:04 PM You are still engaging in the same kind of social transaction when you take your body out into the world. If it were a car, you would be required to insure it against accidental damage for one reason: to avoid throwing that burden onto the commonweal. Having to have a minimum level of health insurace does exactly the same thing for the meat vehicle. OTherwisde, if you have a stroke in the middle of a movie theater, a huge amount of cost is going to be levied against health care providers or public treasuries to get you taken care of, no? Where do you think that money should come from? It is not a tax in the normal sense of the word, but if Roberts wants to call it that, fine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:06 PM Ebbie, it's not that I don't empathize. I do. But it's that after a lengthy lifetime of real hope and belief in the Democrats as a viable alternative to the Republicans...and I did really believe that for most of my life...I have finally reached a point of complete hopelessness about it, that's all. It's not that Democrats aren't well-intentioned down at the level of the ordinary person who votes for that party...they are! But it's that the party itself at the upper level has been taken over by the same great financial powers who have taken over the Republican party. Once in office, the Democratic Party ends up enacting what are really Republican policies. This isn't because of ordinary people who are Democrats. It's because of how the system works from the top down, and the top is all that counts in that process. They'll tell you ANYTHING to get elected, but once in office...you get a deeply conservative policy, just like you do from the Republicans. And that has been happening in Canada too. And in Europe. Bank bailouts to criminal bankers are the rule of the day, and the public everywhere is being made to bear the cost of bailing out the crooks who have bankrupted the society through irresponsible lending practices with money that was created out of thin air...in the form of debt. Canada is one place that has escaped the direct effect of that so far, because our banks were not de-regulated enough to allow it to happen, and there have been no bank bailouts here. Yet. But we are suffering great peripheral damage of the general depression in the American and world economy. This has been done by bankers...by creating unpayable levels of debt...and the ordinary people worldwide are being made to pay for it when they didn't do it. That is the essential problem, and everything else flows from that. Obama has done not a thing to correct it...nor have the Republicans. They are equally guilty of serving the bankers, appointing bankster cronies into the administration, and pursuing militaristic policies abroad, and defrauding the general public. And I don't think you or I can do a thing about it, and I feel hopeless in the face of it. It isn't that I am emotionally "detached" from things, Ebbie. I'm numb. I can't see any way of effectively opposing what's happening through the ballot box, and that makes me feel hopeless...given the fact that I am not the type who would recommend taking up arms. What you think is emotional detachment in me is, in fact, despair. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:10 PM Here is the concluding paragraph of an article that I find refreshing. The view may be naive - perhaps our world is governed by all-knowing, all-evil, all-manipulative organizations- but I don't think so. There IS Hope "If I could look into your eyes, what would I see? Is the world a dark and menacing place? Or do the infinite variations of human appearance and experience fill you with a sense of promise and an eagerness to see what comes next? Is it possible to take a step back, regardless of which camp you inhabit, and examine your views? If so, you are almost certain to find some small way to refine your own perception, and thus your ability, to create a better world for all of us. • DuBois (robert@vodubo.com) is a security adviser, speaker, and author of "Powerful Peace: A Navy SEAL's Lessons on Peace From a Lifetime at War." He wrote this for The Free Lance-Star in Fredericksburg, Va. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Desert Dancer Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:10 PM Look out, Little Hawk, there's a new wave of folks heading your way... (Tweets of) People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare, subtitled, "I'm sure they'll like the healthcare just fine there." Some folks are just not that bright. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: bobad Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:11 PM Oh great, now Canada's going to have an influx of Americans of the loony right persuasion - from The Huffington Post: "Many Americans who were upset at the Supreme Court decision took to Twitter to voice their anger. Weirdly enough, many Americans tweeted about 'moving to Canada' to escape socialized medicine. "I'm moving to Canada, the United States is entirely too socialist," tweets @wallyweldon. "The supreme court upheld Obama Care. That's it. I'm moving to Canada!," tweets @lucasdargis. Of course, Canada is no stranger to socialized medicine, with some provinces having universal coverage as early as the 1950s. In fact, Canada's universal health care is one of the things that Canadians can agree on. " |
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Subject: BS: Obamacare is OK From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:15 PM What? Nobody's noticed that the U.S. Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision read by the very conservative Chief Justice John Roberts, has pronounced all major provisions of Obamacare to be perfectly Constitutional? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:19 PM Amos .....Car insuance is simply to cover the loss incurred by third parties who may be involved in an accident through no fault of their own....Quite different from "compulsory" health insurance. I also think that this legislation would be unworkable. How can one force people who are on the breadline to pay for insurance that they may never use? Smacks of Fascism!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:20 PM ...Just like the President, the Attorney General, the U. S. House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate said it was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obamacare From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:27 PM And Romney, who instituted a similar law in Massechusetts some time back that has apparently been working quite well, is now on the air, shitting a yellow brick, and squealing that when he's elected President, the first thing he'll do is repeal Obamacare. Bloody hypocrite!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: bobad Date: 28 Jun 12 - 02:33 PM Three of the five supremes that voted yea sre women, all four of the naes are men. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Desert Dancer Date: 28 Jun 12 - 03:38 PM Akenton, single payer would be better, but this is the compromise we got. How can one force people who are on the breadline to pay for insurance that they may never use? Umm, they did think of that... "people who are on the breadline" qualify for Medicaid or other assistance with affording payment. A basic explainer, for those who missed it a couple years ago: Health Reform Explained Video: "Health Reform Hits Main Street" (video) or Illustrating Health Reform: How Health Insurance Coverage Will Work (web page) (these both from the Kaiser Family Foundation). ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 03:44 PM Obama used Republican ideas to reform health care for two reasons, he is a fiscal conservative, he knew that Democratic party ideas would not fly. Reform had to be done. I think he also thought that the GOP might support their own ideas. But the GOP Senate leader's number one objective was making Obama a "one term President." so the process was a lot harder and divisive than it should have been. Health care reform had to happen. Whatever the GOP would have done or will do will look a lot like the Affordable Care Act. Keep in mind that the Health Care Providers and Insurance companies were consulted and supported the passing of the law. Republican objections to the law are almost entirely political. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 03:47 PM "Three of the five supremes that voted yea sre women, all four of the naes are men. " Because other than his own unqualified for the Court personal lawyer. GWB could not find a woman who passed the litmus test that the GOP claims does not exist. They must be kicking themselves over Roberts now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 12 - 03:58 PM I think there's plenty of hope for people on a personal level, Ebbie. Just not in regards to the Democratic and Republican party process in the USA, that's all. It's amusing that some Americans are thinking of moving to Canada now because "the USA is too socialist"...!!! LOL!!!!!!!! Well, we'll find a nice little igloo and a set of sled dogs for all of them so they can live the kind of libertarian life they're fondly envisioning having here. ;-D And we'll make sure to exempt them from socialized health care, public schools, access to public roads, libraries, parks, and all that other horrible socialist stuff that they fear and loathe. Each refugee will be issued a flintlock rifle, a knife, a blue star, and one hockey ticket...for the Maple Leafs! ;-) Don - Of course Romney's being a hypocrite! What did you expect? He's playing the political game and trying to get votes from a lot of scared people who have no real idea of what they're voting either for or against. Like usual. They base their thinking on easily identifiable labels that have been locked in their minds by a lifetime of brainwashing (advertising)... Democrat? Or Republican? Calvin Klein? Or Gap? Coke? Or Pepsi? Brittney? Or Kim? Cher? Or Madonna? Decisions, decisions! It's marketing, Don. Not rational thinking. Marketing. The best and most heavily marketed product always gets the sale. In 2008 Obama was by far the best marketed product in the big presidential sale. This year? I don't know yet. It's too early to say. But I'm still betting on Obama. That's a guess, mind you. I wouldn't be so bold as to make a prediction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:03 PM If your attitude toward US policy is hopelessness would you please keep it to yourself. Thinks about it. What good can possible come from spreading hopelessness? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:04 PM How poor does one have to be to qualify for Medicaid Becky? Is it a second class service? Will Medicaid be continued after the new legislation....surely that would be against the letter of the law? I'm rather ignorant of US medical services. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:09 PM You make a valid point there, Jack. I do in fact generally resist the temptation lately to get drawn into these American political threads...more than I used to. They're very depressing. I will hopefully give them up entirely in time. I'm working on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bill D Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:09 PM For those who do not see the importance of today's decision.... This law (which *I* refuse to call 'Obamacare')... this Affordable Health Care law was what we could GET 2 years ago. It is far from perfect, but it helps many people. If it had been struck down or gutted, what we were faced with was starting over...with a Congress with too many Republicans in it - dedicated to either the old status quo or to a system tailored entirely to insurance companies and to Conservative disdain for the needs of those who were finding ANY health care hard to find! What we have now is breathing room..... we can improve this as people begin to see how it IS really better than what we had for so many years. The Republicans may indeed try to revise, rescind or attack it, but they will have to have a VERY clever answer to those who they hurt in the process. It's a step....and in today's polarized society, it's like getting your boot out of the mud and taking one BIG step toward the dry land. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:16 PM Someone earlier in the thread said that Obamacare might be rescinded. I have one question: What do you tell the bear when ya run out of cookies? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM If you are smart you gave the bear the cookies to buy time to find your rifle. But what does that have to do with US politics? Isn't the bear Russia. We have braying donkeys and bellowing elephants over here. and about 200 million "low information" sheep in the middle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 12 - 04:50 PM The mandate does not "force people who are on the breadline to pay for insurance", Ake. Furthermore, auto insurance is mandated for third party but alo protects on issues of damage and liability, as well as damage to one's own car. From an individual point of view it only takes one good fender-bender to demonstrate why this makes sense. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 12 - 05:05 PM Little Hawk: They woud be less depressing if you settled on trying to contribute clear and helpful ideas. You seem more dedicated to a kind of pan-nullification, with large windy poxes on all their houses because you do not care for the state the game has declined into. I cant blame you for your dislike, but you would be much happier if you were contributing anything positive tot he various dialogues instead of adding to the FUD. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 05:36 PM Amos, I am certainly on your side of the politics but I disagree with your advice to LH. Little Hawk all I would ask you to do is this. Before you post a comment ask yourself, "Does this comment add to the hopelessness or add to the hope?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bill D Date: 28 Jun 12 - 06:39 PM "...carrying out the law will be a mad scramble for states, especially Republican-led ones where officials had hoped this day wouldn't come. And the court added a new complication by giving individual states more leeway to turn down the law's expansion of Medicaid, expected to provide coverage to about 16 million uninsured people." more.... Coverage for most Americans, a scramble for states |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Desert Dancer Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:04 PM Ake, I'm not going to explain the whole mish-mosh that is U.S. healthcare before and after the Affordable Care Act to you (even if I could) because I don't have time and you apparently have access to the internet, like I do. But, to start you out... Medicaid (Wikipedia) Medicaid is the United States health program for certain people and families with low incomes and resources. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments, and is managed by the states. People served by Medicaid are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents, including low-income adults, their children, and people with certain disabilities. Poverty alone does not necessarily qualify someone for Medicaid. Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with limited income in the United States. Today's decision on the ACA and Medicaid (NPR/Kaiser Health) The Supreme Court ruled that Congress has the authority to expand Medicaid, but it can't strip states of all their Medicaid funds if they fail to participate in that expansion. [Currently federal Medicaid funding is an all-or-nothing proposition.] Prior to the court's decision, analysts expected that about half of the people who would gain insurance under the law would do so through Medicaid. Under the Supreme Court's ruling, it's up to each state to decide whether it expands coverage to more people. Medicaid is one only piece of the pie: - Medicaid for the poorest (not new, but expanded, with the above qualification), funded by the state and federal governments and administered by each state. - Private insurance plans for most folks. Most folks are enrolled thru one's employer with part or (rarely) full funding from the employer. Quite often an employee has little choice about the plan they're enrolled in. The self-funded individuals here are those working for small employers who don't offer any insurance benefits, part-time workers who don't get benefits, and the self-employed. There's a lot of variation in the quantity and quality of coverage for this big subset of the population. The ACA is an attempt to sort some of it out. - Medicare for the elderly and disabled is funded and administered through the federal government. Also not new. NPR with the Kaiser Health News gives this summary of the effects of the ACA: Health Care Law Upheld: Now What?. Here's the other bit that's upheld with today's decision: Most people will be required to have health insurance starting in 2014 or pay a fine. That penalty for individuals starts at $95 or up to 1 percent of income and grow in later years. For families it would start at $2,085 or 2.5 percent of household income. The Supreme Court noted in its decision that Americans could choose to ignore the mandate and instead pay the penalty, which they deemed a tax. and the other part of the answer to your question about poor(er) folks: People who don't qualify for Medicaid but still can't afford insurance may be eligible for government subsidies. The subsidies would be used to help pay for private insurance sold in the state-based insurance marketplaces, called exchanges, slated to begin operation in 2014. ~ Becky in Tucson |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:39 PM *****************************REALITY ALERT***************************** In order for Romney or the Republicans to repeal they would have to win 11 more Senate seats than they have now... 11 House seats isn't all the tough... 11 more Senate seats is all but impossible... ************************************************************************ Summation: The TeaPubs are wasting America's time and money with their temper tantrums... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Rapparee Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:01 PM Americans who don't like the decision of the Supreme Court are going to move to Canada? Good riddance, I say! America -- love it or leave it!* *As some folks used to say.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:06 PM That is SOOOO ridickle-dockle. Moving to Canada to escape socialized medicine (as they call it) is like moving to Mexico because there's too many Hispanics in the US. LOL. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:15 PM Why does Little Hawk insist on posting to tell me things that it should be obvious I already know? A pathological need to feel smug snd superior? Just curious. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 12 - 08:16 PM No I don't think so. They wouldn't be eligible for the provincial medical plan of the province the move to until their immigration status is decided. I think that they could get away from any form of health care coverage for quite a while. :-p |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:48 AM Thanks Becky...I had some of that from the net, But i was more interested in your personal views on quality of service for those who cannot pay? In the UK we have a universal service, free at the point of delivery to all......it is of course widely abused by many, but at least the principle is good, unlike what is being proposed in the US, which seems certain to create one quality of care for the "better off" and another for the disadvantaged. As it looks as if we are in for a hard time economically over the next couple of decades, the future looks more bleak for this piece of political chicanery. The scheme proposed, also seems to be extremely expensive to administer.......or POLICE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 29 Jun 12 - 03:12 AM Little Hawk, Akenaton, and number6, have it right!! and as far as "Let America be America Again......" Yeah, give BACK the power to the people, and run off the corrupt weasley liars abd crooks, that hold office! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:52 PM I agree with Jack, the two healthcare threads should be amalgamated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: pdq Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:50 PM Or transubstantiated, whichever comes handier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 29 Jun 12 - 05:27 PM The Tea Party is owned lock, stock and barrel by the corporations that funneled billion$ thru Dick Armey's FreedomWorks... You are on the wrong side of the facts and the wrong side of history, GfinS... Please, no more "freedom" lectures... You don't understand the concept outside of it meaning that you want the freedom to impose your Tea Party ideology on everyone else... The United States ain't John Galt's country... It ain't Mad Max After the Thunderdome... It's trying to hold it's position in the world and that can't happen with Ayn Rand policies that in essence says, "Screw you, 99%"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: michaelr Date: 29 Jun 12 - 08:04 PM America (the US) never was "America". It has always been a myth... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 29 Jun 12 - 08:13 PM Reminds me of what my brother used to say about folks who think they are a lot more than they really are, michaelr... "A legend in his own mind"... American is so arrogant... That is it's main problem... Okay, they did some heavy lifting during WW II... Fine... Honor the folks who are still alive and... Okay, there's another way of looking at it... Back when I would jam at Archie Edwards Barbershop in Washington DC we used to do a song entitled "It Ain't All About You"... American needs to take a f'n humility pill and quit preaching bogus BS to the world... In other words, "Lead by example"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:21 PM "America (the US) never was "America". It has always been a myth..." michaelr That is what a myth is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: gnu Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:24 PM I got stoned and I mythed it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 29 Jun 12 - 09:43 PM You thould entah thuh Myth Amewica Contetht! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 12 - 02:35 AM LOL, Amos and gnu!! Bobert, no more Tea party crap from you, OK?..You are making an ass of yourself, especially to those who have nothing to do with the Tea party..such as myself, and others. I know you think it's a good parrot talking point, but hey, go for something a little more substantial than a cracker!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 30 Jun 12 - 03:08 AM Well, thuxth, Amos and Gary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 30 Jun 12 - 01:36 PM Like I've said a million times, GfinS... Quit serving up Tea and all will be fine... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: gnu Date: 30 Jun 12 - 03:59 PM Yo, Spaw... how come there are 17 different threads on this? Combine em, eh? Your's was first but ya gotta adjust the title if it's gonna be the lead thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 30 Jun 12 - 04:22 PM Gnu. I think we are following the Songwronger amendment to the unwritten Mudcat rules. As far as I can gather it goes "A different opinion requires a different thread." On the other hand it could be considered that Songwronger's thread is very different because this one it was started to bash The President while this one is to talk about the decision. My thread was started to mock the Republican reaction. In reality it would not be fair to put that on either thread since it counters Songwronger's purpose and if it were here it would make Spaw's thread look petty. I, on the other hand, would rather look petty than give up my enjoyment of Tea Party insanity. But all that is moot. The threads are in response to recent news. I doubt that any will last a week. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 12 - 04:31 PM Bobert: "Like I've said a million times, GfinS... Quit serving up Tea and all will be fine..." well then, that means you wasted a million posts and a lot of cyber space being WRONG, as usual...and like a psychotic, you keep doing the same thing over and over again, and never learning!..Oh, and piss in your 'tea'! Here...here's a clue..from Wikipedia: The Tea Party movement is an American political movement that supports the United States Constitution, adherence to an originalist interpretation of the United States Constitution,[1] reduced government spending,[2][3] reducing taxes,[3] and reduction of the national debt and federal budget deficit.[2] The movement is generally considered to be conservative, libertarian,[4][5] and populist.[6][7][8] The movement has sponsored protests and supported political candidates since 2009. See that???..at the very end?????.........2009!!! Now look at the date...and it's even to you!!!! From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:40 PM Actually, Bobert,, I wholeheartedly agree with you, and even more so than you posted! I think the present candidate's only impetus, is the desperate hope, that we in America, feel, that something, someone, somewhere can deliver us out of the predicament we have found ourselves, due to decades of corrupt administrations, we have allowed to have in office. (see earlier, above posts, of mine). However, the present lot of candidates, are a sorry pack to pick from, and the enthusiasm behind them, is much like last year's enthusiasm, for Sanjaya, on American Idol. This is all being treated like a popularity contest, of whom appeals to who, for reasons altogether separate than that of being an American, patriotic, statesman. If you want to take these clowns seriously, well, be my guest. I prefer to demand a higher standard......yeah yeah yeah..just babbling on........(actually, I prefer to compose music, this blog thing is just a time filler, during the breaks I take, and it shocks me to see how ardently emphatic people get obsessed over nothing). These candidates suck!" A FUCKING YEAR BEFORE THE TEA PARTY was even conceived, I was telling your impenetrable brain the same thing...and like a broken record, with nothing to say, you keep babbling the same shit. Quit being so lazy, as to not expend the energy it takes to THINK! ...and BTW, even back then my post was correct...and 4 years of the bullshit we've been through, should have shown you that! But, regards anyway...You Ol' Toad!, GfS P.S. "Let America be America Again......" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 30 Jun 12 - 04:48 PM Wikipedia isn't 100% factual... Anything remotely political get high-jacked by the right... They are more persistent in changing the story because most of the story makes them look very bad... BTW, I have tried to get them to change inaccuracies on their piece on the Churchill Tunnel in Richmond... Along with Dr. Walter S. Griggs I am more of an authority on the story than the folks who wrote the story... Most of it is accurate but some is blatantly false and I have 100% proof that it is false yet Wikipedia couldn't care less... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: michaelr Date: 30 Jun 12 - 04:49 PM Ebbie, what is what a myth is? I don't see what you mean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:02 PM Everything the Tea Party movement is saying now and was in 2009 was said for years before that, by the same people. The only differences are the amount of funding and myth that it is a movement and from the grass roots. Its Armey's army plus Grover Norquest's people plus the AFR crowd plus Republican "true believers" who don't like the Party to compromise. Interestingly enough each group seems to have formed their own chapters of the Tea Party and they don't seem to intermingle. It certainly is possible for someone to say Tea Party things long before the Tea Party "officially" formed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: gnu Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:06 PM Orange Pekoe please, even tho I am Green. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:13 PM Very clever Gnu. When the debt ceiling fiasco was taking place I was thinking "Why doesn't someone tell them that in the Boston Tea Party the protestors were not dumping their own tea?" My kind of tea party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:25 PM "Ebbie, what is what a myth is? I don't see what you mean. " I mean it in the same sense as these quotations: "Shining city on a hill" "Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" America has been/was a mythical symbol of equality and opportunity, however miserably -and repeatedly- she failed it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 30 Jun 12 - 05:41 PM Gnu. I am a little embarrassed to have to say this. But I actually meant that what you said is a clever thing. No sarcasm or irony was intended. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 12 - 11:10 PM Bobert: "Wikipedia isn't 100% factual... Anything remotely political get high-jacked by the right..." You are fucking hilarious!....I was pointing out the dates!..and talking to you,..referring to something that is so obviously true..and you want to nitpick the politics of it, and then start driveling about the 'right'.....Does being on the 'left' really make people THAT stupid??? What's the matter??..Doesn't the 'left' believe in freedom? Aren't you functioning in the freedom and civil rights that what's left of our Constitution guarantee us of??..The fact that we still have the freedom to be expressing ourselves openly(and as creative we wish), as we are here...the 'left' doesn't enjoy the freedom of that??....Would you trade your freedom for a totalitarian state that provided every whim you wanted, or needed to stay robotic??..Is that what you want???...Because if it is, quit bitching about the 'right' because both of you nutcases(right and left) are doing the same thing to take away our freedoms, and due processes!...only difference is the 'bag of candy' is of two different flavors!...and Mommy used to tell me, "Don't take candy from strangers..kidnappers do that!"...and with every one of these bogus programs, and wars, and economic trickery, and over taxing, for God only knows what hidden agenda is the one of the day, we all lose a bit of our freedoms, and due processes!!~~ Patriot Act??..NDAA??...repealing Glass-Steagall??..and all the other loopholes they do to open and shut doors for felonious corporate/banking legalized scams!....loosening of the anti-monopoly laws?....and wait till you get a load of the shit in 'Obamacare' that has more to do with control, more than health! Guys, once you lose your freedom, you have nothing!!....and I don't give a flying fuck in a rat's hemorrhoidal ass what 'side' is presenting another agenda, program, benefit, war, scam, trend..etc, etc....if you are chipping away at our freedom..then YOU are the enemy..Flat Fucking Out!!! and if all I can do to oppose that is what was sung before, by Mr. Dylan, among others...then so be it...(now, what did Mr. Dylan sing??..(not the whole piece, and mostly the last verse. (I thought if you had to read the whole thing, some of your attention spans would have gone blank...from what I've seen). Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son? Oh, what did you see, my darling young one? I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin' I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin' I saw a white ladder all covered with water I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son? And what did you hear, my darling young one? I heard the sound of a thunder, it roared out a warnin' Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin' Heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin' Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin' Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son? Who did you meet, my darling young one? I met a young child beside a dead pony I met a white man who walked a black dog I met a young woman whose body was burning I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow I met one man who was wounded in love I met another man who was wounded with hatred And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall Oh, what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son? Oh, what'll you do now, my darling young one? I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin' I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest Where the people are many and their hands are all empty Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison Where the executioner's face is always well hidden Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten Where black is the color, where none is the number And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it Then I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin' But I'll know my song well before I start singin' And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall Copyright © 1963 OK?...and Highest Regards to those who REALLY 'get it'!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: kendall Date: 01 Jul 12 - 09:15 AM A tax, or penalty of 1% is hardly a heavy penalty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: SINSULL Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:01 AM The basics of the penalty: Beginning in 2014, if you are uninsured, not exempt from the new mandate, and refuse to sign up for health care coverage, how much will you owe Uncle Sam? The health care law sets out a formula to determine your penalty, which will be assessed and collected by the IRS as part of your federal income taxes. The penalty will be the greater of a flat dollar amount per person, OR a percentage of your taxable income. For dependents under 18, the penalty is half the individual amount. The annual penalty is capped at an amount roughly equal to the cost of the national average premium for a qualified health plan — in other words you cannot be forced to pay more than it would have cost to buy a plan in the first place. Flat dollar amount for individuals: $95 in 2014; $325 in 2015; and $695 in 2016; increases indexed to inflation after that, subject to a cap. For example, courtesy Blue Cross Blue Shield: An uninsured family of three (two parents and one child under 18), not exempt from the mandate, would have a flat dollar penalty of $1,737 in 2016. Percentage of individual taxable income: fixed percentage of household income in excess of tax filing threshold – 1% in 2014; 2% in 2015; 2.5% in 2016. For example (again courtesy Blue Cross Blue Shield): An uninsured, non-exempt individual with household income of $50,000 would be forced to pay 1 percent of the difference between $50,000 and the tax threshold (let's say $10,00 for an individual in 2014), or roughly $400. Since $400 is greater than $95, this individual would have to pay $400. There are plenty of exemptions from the penalty. You do not face it if your insurance premiums would be more than 8 percent of your gross income, if you're a member of an American Indian tribe, or if you lacked insurance for less than three months during a year. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office projects that 4 million uninsured, non-exempt Americans will refuse to get medical coverage and face the penalty in 2016. No one "on the bread line" will be forced to pay the penalty. Re: Medicaid. Initially the government is picking up 100% of the cost of the expansion to the states. It goes to 90% Fed/10% state. Any state refusing Medicaid will have voters demanding an explanation that is not based on politics as usual. SINS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:15 AM "You are fucking hilarious!....I was pointing out the dates!..and talking to you,..referring to something that is so obviously true..and you want to nitpick the politics of it, and then start driveling about the 'right'.....Does being on the 'left' really make people THAT stupid??? " Is that kind of language necessary? Also, keep in mind that you are talking to one self described "ole hillbilly," not the entire American "left." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 12 - 10:17 AM Thanks, Sins... Here's another point that the TeaPubs won't talk about... Almost all of the people who elect not to participate are in that income range where they receive low income tax credits... In other words, tax money we all pay that brings their incomes up closer to the poverty threshold... It's not money that these folks paid into the IRS thru withholding... So, in almost every case, these folks won't actually pay anything out... They will just lose a little of the $$$ that others paid in... So here's the *****TRUTH*****... (Horrors!!!) 1. The penalty will effect about 1% of the population... 2. Of that 1%... 99% of those penalized won't pay a dime of their own $$$ for the penalty... 3. So, as opposed to the TeaP{un assertion that there will be a "war" the IRS is going to wage on the American people, we are talking about about .001% of the population... B~ B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: SINSULL Date: 02 Jul 12 - 10:01 AM Fascinating - I post the guidelines and all the bickering stops. Facts get in the way sometimes... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: pdq Date: 02 Jul 12 - 10:22 AM "Re: Medicaid. Initially the government is picking up 100% of the cost of the expansion to the states. It goes to 90% Fed/10% state. Any state refusing Medicaid will have voters demanding an explanation that is not based on politics as usual. SINS" and... "Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: SINSULL - PM Date: 02 Jul 12 - 10:01 AM Fascinating - I post the guidelines and all the bickering stops. Facts get in the way sometimes..." NOW PLEASE SHOW WHERE YOU POINTED OUT THAT 100% OF THE COST WILL BE BORNE BY THE STATES BY 2020. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: beardedbruce Date: 02 Jul 12 - 11:34 AM Jack, "Is that kind of language necessary?" When you hold those you agree with to the same standards, you may try to tell us how to address each other- until then many of us will follow the examples of those on the left and make our comments as insulting as possible. BUT we will try to stick to the facts, unlike those you allow to abuse others without comment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: SINSULL Date: 02 Jul 12 - 11:57 AM I didn't. The law has the Federal government covering 100% of the new Medicaid participants for three years. It then gradually transfers costs to the states. In 2020, the states will bear 10% of these costs. Synopsis here: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Jul 12 - 12:43 PM Looking at the vote distribution map of Wisconsin and some other states which have strongly polarized electorates. In the Wisconsin recall, Democrat votes were concentrated in a few, mostly urban counties. Superior area in the NW, Milwaukee-Dane, Kenosha, La Crosse. Rural and small town voters opted to stay with the Republican governor. The rural-small town voters won by a small majority, and the recall was defeated. These non-urban voters must be won in many states if Obama hopes to be re-elected. Some who post here would regard these voters as brain-washed, ignorant Teapubs. Is that true? Or do they reflect the dissatisfaction with the current economic conditions in the US (and much of Europe) They must be won, not denigrated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 12 - 01:02 PM IF they are protesting the economic factors at work undermining middle-class hopes, they would be well advised to notice the causes thereof. Keynes, Glabraith and many others recognized that when you siphon too much of the liquidity out of the system by redirecting it to the savings accounts and investment accounts of the megawealthy, it chokes the middle class and suppresses the economy, because of the billions that do not get spent and passed on to other earners from that spending. The current episode is pretty well traceable to the Bush cuts and the unfunded wars, plus hedge fund managers making a billion dollars a year, for example. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: pdq Date: 02 Jul 12 - 01:45 PM The ObamaCare bill was passed as a "reconcilliation", not as a straight vote because Scott Brown's election put the Dems under the 60 vote level to stop a fillibuster. Any bill passed under "reconcilliation" has an automatic 10 year maximum life. The 10 year sunsetting of ObamaCare will occur on 23 Mar 2020 and the Federal portion of the Medicare expansion will stop, leaving the states to find 100% of the money needed to pay for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM >>>The ObamaCare bill was passed as a "reconcilliation", not as a straight vote because Scott Brown's election put the Dems under the 60 vote level to stop a fillibuster. Any bill passed under "reconcilliation" has an automatic 10 year maximum life. The 10 year sunsetting of ObamaCare will occur on 23 Mar 2020 and the Federal portion of the Medicare expansion will stop, leaving the states to find 100% of the money needed to pay for it. << pdq I am sorry but that is a non-issue. In 10 years some southern "red" states will be swing states because the Tea Party base is Older and almost all white. In 10 years the core of their support, too feeble to get driver's licenses will be disenfranchised by voter laws recently passed by tea publican legislatures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: SINSULL Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:45 PM pdq, Do you really believe that nothing will be done re: healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, etc for the next ten years? Not likely is it. So what is your real objection to the bill? SINS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: gnu Date: 02 Jul 12 - 02:51 PM JtS... "No sarcasm or irony was intended." None taken, sir. And, thanks for the compliment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 12 - 03:13 PM I am highly confident that between 2014--when the full effect of the ACA is felt--and the sunset PDQ relishes in 2020--that even better systems will be put in place extending theprinciples of the ACA. Barring an invasion of bodysnatchers, mugwumps, or know-nothings... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: pdq Date: 02 Jul 12 - 03:21 PM No, SINSULL... I was really making the same point, that being that we don't have a clue what will be the state of Medicare in 8 years, much less the 20 years hense that some supporters are talking about. The PPACA (note correct acronym) can be changed anytime, even as an amendment to a bill declaring a new stamp with the pictiure of Elmer Fudd. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:20 PM Looking at the vote distribution map of Wisconsin and some other states which have strongly polarized electorates. "In the Wisconsin recall, Democrat votes were concentrated in a few, mostly urban counties. Superior area in the NW, Milwaukee-Dane, Kenosha, La Crosse. Rural and small town voters opted to stay with the Republican governor." That is a very simplistic point of view. Exit polls showed that 18% of those voting for Walker supported President Obama. "The rural-small town voters won by a small majority, and the recall was defeated." About 80% of America lives in cities and suburbs. About 20% is rural It is about the same in Wisconsin. How did 20% of the population get 51% of the vote? "These non-urban voters must be won in many states if Obama hopes to be re-elected. Some who post here would regard these voters as brain-washed, ignorant Teapubs. Is that true? Or do they reflect the dissatisfaction with the current economic conditions in the US (and much of Europe) They must be won, not denigrated. " No the teapubs cannot be won. They are the same 25% of the population that has always voted Republican (or at least "conservative") no matter what they are the people who watch Fox and listen to Limbaugh because they would rather be agreed with than learn. Thank God they are aging and being out-bred by sensible, loyal productive Americans. We need to educate, speak out against the nonsense and wait for the slow but sure demographic sea change to render them irrelevant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:39 PM I think a certain Mr Hitler said that....to begin with |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: akenaton Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:44 PM conservatives are more often correct on social issues than liberals. In the long term. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:45 PM Hitler said a whole bunch of things about the ACA and the Wisconson recall? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Jul 12 - 04:48 PM "conservatives are more often correct on social issues than liberals. In the long term. " Good one, Like women's right to vote? Slavery? Nationalized health care? Religious freedom? Debtors prisons? Child labour laws? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:15 AM Jack the Sailor: "Is that kind of language necessary? Also, keep in mind that you are talking to one self described "ole hillbilly," not the entire American "left." " ...but I'm also talking to a friend, and if we were in person, talking face to face, we'd be laughing and smiling about it. Beauty, as well as ugly, is in the eye of the beholder. There is NO one in Mudcat, I see, as anything less than a friend..after all, we all share a sacred thing in common...being musicians!!!..However, certain friends can still be a pain in the ass! Jack the Sailor: "Good one, Like women's right to vote? Slavery? Nationalized health care? Religious freedom? Debtors prisons? Child labour laws?" Well, Lincoln was a Republican, and he got rid of slavery...and the Democrats in the south were the last to come around on that one!..and the results aren't in on nationalized health care..and Religious freedom, the conservatives are bitching at Obama about Catholics reserving the rights of Catholics, not to support abortions, and contraception, matter of fact, the 'far left' don't seem to fond of Christianity, and do everything they can to override their beliefs..Debtors prisons...hmm Didn't Obama just get his Health care deal OK'd..complete with the 'penalty'..oops, 'tax', and NDAA passed in the same year?....and..well, I'll let you work on those, first! Regards Nonetheless! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: ollaimh Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:15 AM hopelessness maybe an example of becomming aware of reality. i just posted that the north carolin senate passed a bill to ban any government agency from mentioning or studying climate change or sea level rise, while scientific american just did an article showing that the carolinas have the highest sea level rise in the world at present. americans believe in fairy tales right now and big money likes it that way. canada socialist? what a joke, americans seem to not even know what words mean anymore. and anyone with educastion is a liberal. i think there will be another major crash as the debt chickens come home to roost, untill then intelligent running of government and business for the benefit of all is going to be ignored. the us just spent two trillion dollars of borrowed money on a war in iraq probably because the bush adminstration didn't know the difference between iraq and irtan, and thought it would be easy and paid for with oil. how's that working out? they just spent a decade deregulating the financial industry so that they issues worthless securities but they comtrolled the bond rating agencies who told every one they were good as gold--surprise! people should read chris hedges books , start with "empire of illusion" americans did do some heavy lifting in the second world war, but so did everybody else. that'[s the start of the delusion, that they won the war. the soviet union had ten times the losses--or more and ten times the troops in battle, little canada had more troops per capita in battle and we fought from 1939 . on d day we had one of the five neaches--juno to ourselves, against the best fortified positions and the waffen ss panzer unit in the area, in addition we did much of the first day fighting on the two british beaches. sorry you didn't lift any more than anyone else. so waking up to reality would be good now before reality wkes you up with the sinking of the coast of carolina, that cannot be stopped by legislation |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:34 AM " Jack, "Is that kind of language necessary?" When you hold those you agree with to the same standards, you may try to tell us how to address each other- until then many of us will follow the examples of those on the left and make our comments as insulting as possible. BUT we will try to stick to the facts, unlike those you allow to abuse others without comment. " Bruce are you and Guest from sanity a team now? If so, I didn't get the memo or else I would have been much more respectful? Do you also love Hillary Clinton? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Jul 12 - 10:35 AM Woo Hoo 1oo! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 12 - 12:17 PM "...the north carolin senate passed a bill to ban any government agency from mentioning or studying climate change or sea level rise," ollaimh Not so. Misstatement is probably a failing of the human species but I do wish we were more careful when we state "facts". Here is what North Carolina did in fact do: "North Carolina senators have decided to postpone consideration of a state-sponsored science panel's warning of rising sea levels until July 2016, calling instead for more studies. "A conference report that amended the much-debated bill to control how North Carolina prepares for climate change along its coast passed the Senate Monday night 40-1 and is awaiting a House vote." http://www.jdnews.com/news/rising-105718-seas-bill.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: pdq Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:37 PM Nice job, Ebbie... John 8:32 "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:42 PM What the NC GOP is doing could hardly be considered wise. We probably don't want to much development on the Outer Banks if the sea level will rise that much that fast. But there is bugger all we can do to prevent it. I certainly don't want to be in the same insurance pool with a new home on on Ocracoke Island. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Let America be America Again...... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Jul 12 - 04:08 PM Subject: RE: BS: 88 Books that shaped America From: Jack the Sailor - PM Date: 03 Jul 12 - 01:25 PM Judging from his ads Rouzer is a Tea Party A-hole. I think he is running against the Blue Dog in our district. Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate Subject: RE: BS: 88 Books that shaped America From: Q - PM Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:19 PM What a sight! All those millions of Tea Party A-holes. (41% of Americans support the "Tea Party" according to the Washington Post estimate). Tea party support stable, but interest is waning, Scott Clement, 04/15/2012, Washington Post Politics. For those who want to know what and who the Blue Dogs are, see "Blue Dog Coalition" in Wikipedia. There are 26 Representatives according to this list, 6 departing at end of 112th Congress. Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate Subject: RE: BS: 88 Books that shaped America From: Jack the Sailor - PM Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:29 PM No not millions. The Tea Party A-holes, my term, are the ones running for office using nasty divisive ads with their name on them. Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate Subject: RE: BS: 88 Books that shaped America From: Jack the Sailor - PM Date: 03 Jul 12 - 02:44 PM New York Times (Pew) puts agreement with the Tea Party in the mid 20's That is in districts with Tea Party representatives. I know it depends on how you ask the question. But since support is a much stronger term than "agree with," it makes your unsupported statement of 41% nation wide (Or did you just mean my district in North Carolina) seem dubious at best. Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate Subject: RE: BS: 88 Books that shaped America From: Jack the Sailor - PM Date: 03 Jul 12 - 03:01 PM Q I went back and read the poll -------- Support -------- --------- Oppose -------- No NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion 4/8/12 41 12 29 45 21 24 14 Somewhat support? That is not want a member would say. At best you have only 12 percent as member of the Tea Party. Obviously the reality is much smaller than that. |
