BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 07:19 AM

Correct.

As usual, said to contradict what I said. Which it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 05:18 AM

Medics and padres DO use the term enemy.
The Geneva convention states that wounded enemy prisoners must be treated with friendly casualties according to clinical need only.

As for the obligation to treat, try turning up at Harley Street or most hospitals in the world, without cash, card or insurance.
First aid if you are lucky.
Treatment no.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 21 Jun 14 - 01:35 AM

The operative word being "appear." Although reading some of the shite on this thread it wouldn't take much to remove the word...

Poo Bad. You keep quoting something that doesn't contradict anything I put. Odd really. Although bear in mind that there are, to date, over forty USA doctors who cannot practice in most other countries due to their involvement in executions. State laws contradict federal obligations and the stalemate is ongoing. A British doctor who was struck off for falsifying research into MMR jabs has exploited that loophole and is carrying out research in Texas.

For the purpose of this thread, the question was raised over treating a man whilst holding his organisation to account for kidnap. I said that doctors have an obligation. That's how it is. The government can kick him out, the hospital can end treatment at a non critical stage but the doctors' hands are tied whilst ever he is their patient.

Medics and padres. People in uniform who don't use the word enemy.

But I don't expect that fits in with the bigotry and partisan balls you keep spewing out on this thread. Rather ugly really.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:43 PM

You do what you like, John. But I don't propose to read any more Greg F posts at all in the future. Life just too short.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:55 PM

GregF -- "Oh you guys, what a buncha kidders. Look up "sarcasm" & "irony" some time you have a minute."

And to think that for the last bunch of years when I was arguing, discussing, sometimes agreeing with, but mostly not with GregF I thought he said what he meant and he meant what he said, but he was only being ironic and sarcastic. I guess I'll have to read between the lines, when I read a GregF post in future.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 06:54 PM

' i appear to know more than anyone else here' - jeez louise, comrade that is a mighty boast.
now lets see what we can prescribe to bring a dose of reality

dick gaughan - what you got
john martyn - may you never
gillian welsh - i dream a highway
nick lowe - what's so funny about peace love and understanding
joe strummer - bhindi bhagee

right. listen to that lot and then get cross about any other group

and grow up

peace and love

lucky pierre

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 06:24 PM

Oh you guys, what a buncha kidders. Look up "sarcasm" & "irony" some time you have a minute.

By the way - are you maintaining that there are no Jewish Arabs?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 02:10 PM

I think he'd do better to go away and wank in private, instead of doing it here publicly ad nauseam

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 02:04 PM

I agree with you on GregF, JotSC, I think he's better off sticking to what he does best, ad hominem attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:58 PM

The assertion you are making is not supported by common law:

Under common law a physician has traditionally not been required to undertake the care of someone who is not already a patient. This reflects the position that no person is required to provide assistance to another except in exceptional circumstances.10,11,12 As summarized in St. John v. Pope (Texas Supreme Court, 1995), "Professionals do not owe a duty to exercise their particular talents, knowledge, and skill on behalf of every person they encounter in the course of the day … It is only with a physician's consent, whether express or implied, that the doctor–patient relationship comes into being."13 On the basis of the principle of contract law, that both parties must assent to the creation of a relationship, the right of refusal has been extended to emergency situations even when no other physician is available.14,15

10. Linden AM. Canadian tort law. 6th ed. Toronto: Butterworths; 1997. p. 284-99.
11. Fleming JG. The law of torts. 9th ed. Sydney (Australia): LBC Information Services; 1998. p. 162-72.
12. Klar LN. Tort law. 2nd ed. Scarborough (ON): Carswell; 1996. p. 147-69.
13. St. John v. Pope, 901 SW 2d 420 at 423 (Texas SC 1995).
14. Hurley v. Eddingfield, 59 NE 1058 (1901).
15. Fought v. Solce, 821 SW 2d 218 (Tex Ct Civ App 1991).

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:38 PM

Man, GregF, you're becoming the equivalent of someone who used to post to Israel/Palestine topics...purposely obtuse and disengenuous.

Your first question merits no answer.

As to the second question, Bobad linked to a site, earlier today, which will answer your query. Since it appears you didn't read it, here it is again--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset (copy/paste to your internet provider of choice).

Go and learn! You might even like what you read. Or was that question just rhetorical to make us think Arabs in the Knesset are "Dohd Ali" or an Uncle Ali (cf to USA Uncle Tom).

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 01:00 PM

the Israeli Knesset had 12 Arab members

Well John & ~M~

1. Any of 'em Jewish?

2. How do they vote? - pro or con the Govt. policies RE:Occupied Territories, illegal settlements, human rights abuses, treatment of Palestinians & etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:58 PM

I've never had a job in The NHS in my life. Never been a bean counter for that matter. Spent enough money employing the buggers though.

The GMC nor The Royal Colleges nor their equivalents in The WHO concordat make shit up though. When I regulated them, I had to understand them. When I married one, I took an interest in their obligations. Doctors cannot refuse to treat on the basis of enemy. They can refuse elective treatment on the basis of funding or clinical risk, but if a patient presents, a doctor cannot make the decision to not treat and every country signed up to the professional registration concordat has to honour that. You don't know fuck all, which is par for the thread.

I appear to know more than anyone else here, that's for sure, and considering I teach medical students, it's a good job the bloke behind Musket is competent. I'd fucking starve if I were as ignorant and self opinionated as you. You even give our resident corporal sign writer a run for his money.,

Your ball.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:30 PM

You were wrong Musket. Just because you had a job as a bean counter at the NHS it doesn't make you an expert on all matters medical but your inflated ego and arrogance won't let you admit it. You made that shit up.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:08 PM

"Its just a coincidence that the government is comprised entirely of members of the Jewish faith."--GregF

Mr. F, you are entitled to all the biased opinions you care to spew. You may not, however, aver as the truth a lie. As of 2011, the Israeli
Knesset had 12 Arab members, of varying religions and backgrounds, out of a total membership of 120--10%!

Just for comparison, the current U.S. Congress (combined Senate and House) comprise 36 of 535 members who are Jewish--less than 7%! Of those 36, 35 are Democrats (one actually being an independent who caucuses with the Dems). One of these Jews definitely will not be returning for the next Congress; frankly, I don't care whether congress has no Jews or all Jews, although I would hope there would be fewer Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

ISRAELI DEMOCRACY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 11:06 AM

Are you still coming out with that fantasy over doctors refusing to treat people on the basis of enemy?

Sounds like your knowledge of healthcare is about as good as your knowledge of The Middle East.

People like you but unfortunate enough to have influence are responsible for thousands of deaths and continuing long term suffering. If I were you I'd be grateful for your ignorance, it is the only thing stopping you from shameful sleepless nights.

That said, I enjoy the fascination of seeing the level when politicians harp on about getting people's opinions. They forget about the level of intelligence seen on these threads for starters.

Fuck me gently...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:10 AM

List of Arab members of the Knesset

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:08 AM

FYI --

"Balad (Hebrew: בָּלַ"ד, an acronym for Brit Le'umit Demokratit (Hebrew: בְּרִית לְאוּמִּית דֶּמוֹקְרָטִית, lit. National Democratic Assembly); Arabic: التجمع الوطني الديمقراطي‎, at-Tajamuʿ al-Waṭanī ad-Dīmūqraṭī or بلد, lit. Country or Nation) is an Israeli Arab political party in Israel led by Jamal Zahalka.[4] It is sometimes called the "National Democratic Alliance".[5]"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 10:03 AM

No, it isn't, actually. There are Arab members of the Knesset, like Jamal Zahalka*, some of whom have even been ministers -- tho probably none at present. But they are mainly members of the Jewish race, not the Jewish faith -- ie non-orthodox, non-practising, and probably several who are agnostic or atheist by persuasion. As usual, GregF, you are opening your exceptionally fat and loud mouth with extreme dogmatism on a topic on which you are just plain misinformed.

~M~

*Dr Jamal Zahalka (Arabic: جمال زحالقة‎, Hebrew: ג'מאל זחאלקה; born 11 January 1955) is an Israeli Arab who serves as a member of the Knesset representing the Balad party. He is a Balad party leader. Wikipedia -- read the full entry

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 09:46 AM

[Israel]has never been a religiously Jewish state [ie a 'theocracy'].

You bet, ~M~. Its just a coincidence that the government is comprised entirely of members of the Jewish faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:43 AM

Nice attempt to deflect away from the thing you have for the "democratically" elected terrorist group Hamas, Musket. We're not fooled though. Oh, and the absence of rebuttal to my post disproving your false contention re the obligation of MDs to treat has not gone unnoticed. We're watching.......and laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 08:42 AM

More "Antisemitism" from Israel
Jim Carroll

ISRAELI SOLDIERS SPEAK OUT ON ABUSE OF PALESTINIANS
Kitty Holland
Irist times 19,06,14
Yehuda Shaul, a former Israeli soldier who served in the West Bank and Gaza, tells how he and fellow soldiers secured a television screen one night while out on patrol, to watch a World Cup match.
It was 2002 and Brazil was playing. "The way we passed those night patrols was to bang on random houses, no reason and we'd go in, wake everyone up, men in one room, women in another,mess everything up, onto the next house.
"That night we wanted to watch the match so we were looking for a house that had a satellite dish. We found one, «vent in and locked the family in the basement while we watched the match. Why wouldn't we? That's what we do in the occupied territories.
The most important message you get from your superiors in the Israeli military is that every Palestinian needs to feel Israel is at the back of their neck. So, quickly, you adapt to le environment; you don't see the Palestinian in front of you as human. They are reduced to being an object."
A photograph accompanies the story, of a young Israeli soldier grinning to the camera, in Palestinian family's living room, the aforementioned football match on their television in be background.
It is one of hundreds of chilling photographs taken by former members of the Israeli Defence Forces, of themselves and their colleagues engaging in what Shaul says becomes "normal" behaviour after being sent to the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza. A fraction - about 85 - will be exhibited by the Breaking the Silence project in Dublin from today.
Other photographs include one of a Palestinian man, blindfolded, his hands tied, his head bowed. A young Israeli soldier crouched down beside him beams to the camera in an image reminiscent of some that emanated from Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, in 2003.
Another shows a teenage boy, again hands tied, blindfold¬ed and left sitting, while Israeli soldiers chat in the back-ground. One of the most dis¬turbing is one of children, who appear aged between about sev¬en and 10, "playing soldiers".
Some are clearly 'playing' Palestinians, their hands against a wall, their legs splayed while another displays the occupying soldier, pointing a stick at them as a 'gun'. An Israeli soldier looks on. "This [kind of] experience is normal to these young kids," says Shaul "It's their reality from a young age."

'PEOPLE HADN'T A CLUE'
Breaking the Silence was initiated by Shaul 10 years ago, after he completed his tour of duty with the IDF in Hebron. All Israeli males must spend three years in the military and females two years, with some exceptions, after high school.
"When I came back, I began to question what I had done, what I had done to Palestinian people. Once I understood the reality of what I had done I found I couldn't continue unless I did something. I started to talk to military colleagues and found they felt the same. The one thing we kept bumping into was that people hadn't a clue."
Israelis, he says, didn't know - or didn't want to know - the abuses he says are perpetrated every day in the occupied territories. "Soldiers come home, maybe for a weekend. It's a different reality. They don't talk about the reality of the military. What happens in the West Bank stays in the West Bank."
He and colleagues began gathering photographs and testimonies and were soon exhibiting all over Israel, including in the parliament, the Knesset.
Their work created "noise", he says and for a time they were one of the biggest stories in the country. It has opened a discussion and some awareness but he says most Israelis choose to say of the occupation: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
"What we have documented are not isolated incidents. This is a story of what happens when a nice kid from Jerusalem or Tel Aviv gets sent to the Territories. They adapt."

EMBASSY COMMENT
Asked to comment, a spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Dublin said: "Breaking the Silence represents only an insignificant minority of IDF veterans (less than 1,000). It is not an objective human rights organisation. It is a political organisation devoted to tarnishing the defence Forces and, by extension, the Israeli state.
"Breaking the Silence are 'useful idiots' allowing themselves to be manipulated by the international boycott, divestment,sanctions campaign against Israel. It seeks to delegitimise and ultimately destroy the state of Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people."
Breaking the Silence has exhibited in the US, Berlin, Madrid, Amsterdam, Copenhagen and Brussels and continues to gather photographs and testimony from returning soldiers. It runs at the Gallery of Photography in Dublin's Temple Bar from today until June 29th and is free.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 05:10 AM

A couple of views of "shelled to pieces" Gaza hospitals.
http://teeksaphoto.org/Levant2010/Hospital_youth_group_staff_meeting_1_4_11/content/Gaza_hospital_5752_large.html
http://www.icrc.org/eng/assets/images/other/img_3686_z.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 04:05 AM

Slowly but surely, a wee bit of balance and reality is creeping into this thread. Poo Bad is showing his arse and his mates have gone quiet.

Here, Poo Bad... Got any more Hitler comparisons we can laugh at? Good God(win) I need a chuckle after the match last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 12:51 AM

Troubadour: As to "admitting that Israel is NOT a Jewish state", as you triumphantly claim Bobad to have done:-

It has never been a religiously Jewish state [ie a 'theocracy']. It was founded as an ETHNICALLY Jewish state, from earliest late-C19 concept of the early pioneers who founded the early kibbutzim, & from Herzl's writings, onward. This thread, as so many, is bedeviled by this constant failure to distinguish between Judaism as a FAITH, and Judaism as a RACIAL or ETHNIC group. Naturally there will be much overlap; but it is nevertheless a distinction to be constantly kept in mind in discussing any matters pertaining to Israel, or to the Jews in general. These days, probably the majority of those who regard themselves as Jewish keep up few, if any, of the obligations of their traditional faith, but have more or less strong feelings of ethnic solidarity nonetheless.


~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 09:59 PM

The old "stalker" gambit. At least you're consistent with your BS, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 08:58 PM

I'm happy to see my stalker's back - you missed a few posts - I was worried something might have happened to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 08:23 PM

Oh, I think the evidence has convinced many more than himself, Boo.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 07:24 PM

Keep reaching GUEST,Troubadour. you may even convince yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:47 PM

"But you appear to me to have avoided the question as to why "Israel is where most Palestinians who can afford it go for healthcare","

Perhaps the fact that most hospitals in Gaza and the Palestinian 41% of the West Bank have either been shelled to pieces, or are packed to capacity by the cramming of over 4 million people into ever decreasing space.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:40 PM

"And you coming in with your inflammatory lie about Israel being a theocracy is constructive and helpful to the debate?"

Ah! Now we are getting somewhere!

So, Bobad, you now admit that decrying the actions of a militaristic and xenophobic Israeli government is not an antisemitic attack upon the Jews who live under the rule of said government?

At last we have a denial that all who disagree with Netanyahu's policies are antisemitic, so we can put that straw man to bed once and for all, straight from the horses mouth.

BOBAD admits that Israel is NOT a Jewish State.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:31 PM

"It's called The Hippocratic Oath and forms the basis of the moral obligations of registration. Benevolence has nothing to do with it. It is a professional obligation."

Spot on Musket, and it's the reason why US Mobile Army Surgical Hospitals treated patients, friend or foe, based on clinical need.

It's what good Western doctors do, regardless of how the other side may act.

So if we are expected to issue pats on the back for Israeli doctors, fine and fair.

This has no relationship to our feelings about the government responsible for those Arab patients needing the services of those doctors.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour.
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:22 PM

"Nobody was wounded by the rocket, which exploded on a road in the south of the country, Israeli police said."

No chance at all that the eventual response (whether publicised or not) will be as bloodless.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 05:44 PM

Indeed. Of course, he had enormous help from Ernst Röhm, leader and organiser of the Brownshirts, aka SA or Sturmabteilung (Stormtroopers). He expressed his gratitude in typical fashion by having Röhm executed a year later, ostensibly on Himmler's orders, partly as a potential rival for the party leadership [probably he was, at that]; but largely because Röhm was homosexual, & Hitler hated gays as much as he hated Jews!

Sorry for drift -- but all historically relevant UTAP...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 03:18 PM

~M~ -- I believe we both pretty much agree about Hitler's rise to power. Yes, Hitler was individually elected to the Reichstag; yes, the Nazi Party had a plurality in the governing body; yes Hitler was 'appointed' Chancellor. But it did have to be thus. Over 60% of Reichstag seats were not held by Nazis. If they had cooperated to put forth a candidate backed by more seats than Hitler, Hindenburg would have (had to) appoint(ed) that person. I believe many obscene machinations by Hitler, et. al.prevented this. I, therefore, reject the notion that Hitler was democratically elected to the position of chancellor.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 01:13 PM

Hitler was democratically elected as a member of the Reichstag, leader of the largest, tho not overall majority, party, which was why Hindenberg had to appoint him Chancellor. So to that extent he could be said to have been elected -- not as national leader, but as member of the Reichstag. All followed from there: he manoeuvred his status as Chancellor to make himself de facto The Big Banana with the help of some brownshirted persuaders patrolling the streets to rough up anyone who seemed to object. Unfortunately, in the confused situation following Hindenberg's death, the ploy worked, & he emerged as Der Führer

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 12:27 PM

Bobad wrote "By the way Hitler was democratically elected wasn't he...." In this he is wrong. It is a canard usually put forth by folks who seek to justify mal results of elections. I hasten to say this isn't the case with Bobad.

Hitler was never...repeat never...elected to the Chancellership of Germany. The Nazi Party never—again repeat never...held a majority of seats in the Reichstag prior to his elevation to that office in 1933. How did he get there?

Hitler roiled the fires of resentment of Germany's treatment by the Treaty of Versailles; by the world wide depression-especially hard in Germany; by scapegoating religious, political and racial groups; and by fomenting specific violence against the government and political opposition...remember the Brown Shirts? In the 1932 election, the Nazis won 230 seats of the 608 available—a plurality of about 37%. The myrid parties in Germany were unable to coalesce to form a larger plurality against the Nazis, and President Hindenberg was forced to invite Hitler to form a government. After Hindenberg died, Hitler made himself the 'de facto' unelected dictator of Germany.

Some democratic election, huh!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 10:52 AM

"Musket does not."

Anything else you want to put in my mouth Keith?

Bad enough you spout unintelligible bollocks without stating something about me that I never said. There again, the truth was never your mistress. Fucked her a few times I suppose, but you never bought her flowers.

Poo bad. Oh dear... Having completely failed to understand my post you then compound your ignorance by saying Hitler was democratically elected. Err.. When? Read your history books and especially how party leaders ask Presidents to allow them to form a government.

Yeah, I have thing for Hitler too. Rock on. I wank over pictures of him in my private wolf's lair in the spare bedroom. Fancy joining me and cracking one out?

Keith was right after all. When you have no answers you resort to insults. Or lying in his case...

Good job Tony Blair is negotiating a peace eh? After all, it could just as well have been one of you stupid imbeciles.... On balance, go for it Tony...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 07:50 AM

"I have this thing you see, about democratically elected governments and opposition parties."

Hamas was NOT democratically elected to the executive branch. It won a plurality in the legislative branch, was unable to form a coalition and took executive power in a violent coup throwing people off of buildings. Abbas was the elected leader of the presidency. Now neither have had recent elections.

Take a look at your "democratically elected government" showing the opposition party how to make a smooth transition of power (if you can stomach it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOWNNvhZ0e8

By the way Hitler was democratically elected wasn't he - I guess you have a thing for him too.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 07:44 AM

Eight years since Hamas was elected.
How many times have they put themselves up for re-election?
Never.
Not that democratic then.

United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organization.

Musket does not.(snigger)

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 07:12 AM

No. I would like to see all terror groups crushed and the political organisations that people vote for free from the terror wings that they are associated with, wouldn't you?

I have this thing you see, about democratically elected governments and opposition parties. I will ask that they be held to account, I will criticise their motives and in the case of Hamas, their corruption, and when they get beaten at the ballot box, or when other parties in league with their aims get beaten, I see it as a good sign. Based on my view. It is a bad sign perhaps for a Palestinian family being oppressed by Israeli soldiers.

But unlike war mongerers and pretend soldiers, I don't see any point in using military might to kill off a political viewpoint. Yes, hold the kidnappers to account. In fact put them in the dock with the Israeli generals using the kidnap as an excuse for oppression, endangering the lives of the young people even more.

I don't want to see religion inspired violence beaten, mainly because you can't, ever, and secondly because peace comes when you eradicate the issues they justify themselves with.

Jaw jaw, not war war, as Churchill said.

In any event, "Islamists" are being crushed, regularly. By Muslims. By followers of the Islamic faith. Funny that..

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 06:56 AM

"Err. Why do you want to crush Hammas Poo Bad?"

I would like to see all Islamist terrorist groups crushed - wouldn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 03:56 AM

He did not say he wanted to crush it, just that it will be better when it is.

What do you like about them that you want them to go on?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 03:11 AM

Err. Why do you want to crush Hammas Poo Bad?

Isn't this a debate for onlookers and objective comment?

Not much point in grunting with the pigs.

Keep posting though, you give shallow fools such as Keith something to wake for in a morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jun 14 - 01:13 AM

Greg F prior to the announcement of this rapprochement between Fatah and Hamas how many Israelis have been kidnapped in either the West Bank or East Jerusalem?

Now we do know, and there is evidence to link, the practice of kidnapping Israelis is a standard tactic for Hamas in Gaza and for Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon (Although in the case of the latter the last time they tried it in 2006 they ended up bitterly regretting it). So for all of a sudden kidnapping to appear in an area where before it has not occurred for years who would be your main suspects?

Greg F prior to the announcement of this rapprochement between Fatah and Hamas how many rockets or mortars have been fired into Israel from either the West Bank or East Jerusalem? If all of a sudden that now started to happen who would be your prime suspects?

Abbas should not only be "lashing out" verbally at those responsible for kidnapping these teenagers, every single law enforcement officer and member of the Palestinian security and intelligence services should be ripping the place apart searching for them NOT the IDF.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 11:04 AM

Good news but it'll be even better once the kids are found and Hamas is crushed.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 10:54 AM

Israel tightens W. Bank grip as Abbas blasts kidnappers
AFP By Daphne Rousseau

Jerusalem (AFP) - Israel tightened its grip on the West Bank Wednesday, arresting another 65 people, as Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas lashed out at those behind the disappearance of three Israeli teenagers.

As the hunt for the youths entered its sixth day, there was no let-up in Israel's drive to deal a crushing blow to the West Bank infrastructure of Hamas, which it has blamed - without providing any proof - for the kidnapping.

But as troops pressed their biggest arrest operation in years, imposing a tight lockdown on huge swathes of the West Bank, Abbas blasted those behind the teens' disappearance, saying they were trying to "destroy" the Palestinian people.

Pundits have said Israel is seeking to use the massive military operation in the West Bank to bring about the collapse of the newly formed unity government.



http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-slams-abbas-support-israel-security-coordination-113942364.html

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 14 - 05:02 AM

The adults are despicable, and the kids will grow up to be even worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jun 14 - 05:04 PM

Nice eh!

The latest Arab social media campaign is the three-fingered salute, celebrating the kidnapping of three Jewish boys, Eyal Yifrah, Gilad Shayar and Naftali Frenkel, by Hamas.

They're calling it the the "three Shalits" in reference to Gilad Shalit who was captured and kept hostage by Hamas until Israel released 1000 terrorists in exchange.

Now, look what all these proud Palestinian Authority parents have done. They've baked cakes. They photographed their little children showing solidarity with Hamas for kidnapping the boys.

They then proudly post the photographs of their children celebrating the kidnapping of Jewish children onto all the social media sites.

What a sick society they have created and are perpetrating onto the next generation.

Three Fingered Salute - New Low Even for "Palestinian" Society