BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 11:53 AM

251 boys and 157 girls .

How do you explain that discrepancy?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 11:56 AM

Jimmy boy,

"You are actually using the deaths of children as a propaganda exercise."

Yes, you are.


408 killed- If that is valid (ONLY source is Hamas) then HOW MANY were killed by anti-personnel warheads on Hamas rockets?

I gave you numbers before-

650- 1000 rockets HIT GAZA after being launched by Hamas.

EACH ONE will kill between 0 and 25 or so. GAZA HAS NO SHELTERS because of HAMAS using that material to make attack tunnels to threaten Israeli civilians. So it would be reasonable to use the higher end.

So IF 408 children were killed, and children are what percentage of the population- over the 31% killed, certainly- that means if ALL the HAMAS rockets are considered, EACH ONE would only have to kill 1.3 to 2 Gazans to give that number of dead kids .


1320 total dead civilians from Hamas rockets- Gee, that is about what civilians YOU claim Israel has killed TOTAL.



I am sure the actual number killed is less than that- SOME civilians ARE being used as human shields by Hamas, and at least 600 of the rockets were launched from schools, apartments, mosques and hospitals - so Israeli COUNTER-FIRE may have killed SOME civilians.


But to state that Israel has killed those 408 children, when the numbers indicate that Israel is FAR less efficient at killing Palestinian civilians than Hamas is, is plain bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:05 PM

Of course, that does not count the OTHER children being killed by Hamas…

"August 13th, 2014
10:50pm A child was killed and two other children were injured from a 9:57pm rocket launch from Gaza, according to a Reuters report.

The rocket landed in the Sinai.

The rocket hit their home in the town of el-Mattallah south of Rafah.

The murdered child was identified as Sara Salama, 13, and the injured children wwas her brother Khaled, 8, and her sister Rahaf, 2.

It is not clear if the rocket was a misfire, or a deliberate message to Egypt."

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:12 PM

"A television reporter from Finland's Helsingin Sanomat, the "Helsinki Dispatch," spent the night reporting from Gaza's Al Shifa Hospital, where she saw Hamas militants launching a rocket from the hospital's parking lot, confirming a war crime that few journalists have dared report.

Using hospitals, schools and mosques to store weapons or as a military base is against international rules of war. The Al Shifa Hospital, in particular, has been an area of focus after journalists reported that Hamas was using the hospital as a headquarters, but many of their reports were withdrawn, deleted on social media or actually taken off their newspaper websites because of fears for their safety and retribution from Hamas for reporting the truth.

The Helsingin Sanomat report was titled, 'HS spent the night at a hospital in Gaza.'

Their reporter, whose name is not shown in the segment uploaded to YouTube on Friday, is reporting from outside of the hospital, where she said, "Right in the back parking lot of Al Shifa Hospital, a rocket was launched, two o'clock in the morning."

"Really, it happened right in the area, the sound of it was really loud," she said. "It's true that rockets are launched here from the Gazan side into Israel."

Watch the Helsingin Sanomat report from the parking lot of Gaza's Al Shifa Hospital.
"

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:26 PM

Brucie the Beligerant
"Yes, you are'.
Those are the only figures available at present and those are the ones UNICEF reported.
The only thing we are getting from you and your Israeli propaganda machine if that the Children aren't really children - that's how squalid it gets.
Repeating UNICEF figure (gathered from all sources, including those of their own observers), is in no way supporting Hamas, which is what you are attempting to do as you did before with your "conference with terrorists" bullshit, and you ******* well know it.
In the end, the final dead count will be made using all information available - the reliability of Israel's figures can be judged by the fact that they've just sacked their own Human Rights group, Bar Tselem sor not coming up with suitable information.
"HOW MANY were killed by anti-personnel warheads on Hamas rockets?"
Do you have any evidence this is the case - spo far I have only read that the Israelis are only claiming that the rockets (20 deaths in twelve years) are all Isreali
You appear to be acting as an unpaid propagandist for the Israeli regime before they have made such claims themselves - not that their word could carry much weight if they did, given their track record.
A bit of advice.
Your opinions might be just thal little bit more credible if they were delivered in a reasonable way, without the unpleasantly blustering, arrogance that they invariably come wrapped in - always a sig of insecurity.
And wile I'm in the advising mood:
"Jimmy boy,"
I'm rather fond of the name "Jimmy" (Ewan's mother used to call me "Jimmy Boy" all the time) so it doesn't particularly faze me, but I really wouldn't like people to think we're friends, so stop trying to ingratiate yourself with me - that doesn't work either - I still think you are a cretinous little gobshite.
Perhaps if you tried a little imagination - I'd be happy to suggest an alternative - don't suppose you'll take me up on that!!.
I offered to help Terry the Terminator in the same way, but he turned me down and stuck with a name I that takes be back to the time I was in infants school - which I suggested in the first place.
Kids - who'd have 'em?   
"How do you explain that discrepancy?"
What discrepancy - are you suggesting that these children are all Hamas terrorists, armed with lethal water-pistols, no doubt - wouldn't put it past you?
It seems to be the level you think - you really are an unsavoury little slug
"We all feel that and it should go without saying."
Yeah - just like the victims of that scourge of the extremists, "President Assad" in Homs - time to recommend the riot control equipment and sniper rifles, docha think?
Jim Carroll
A further example of Israel's reliability - along with that of her buddies in Washington
CONTROVERSY SURE TO FOLLOW IN GAZA STRIFE
The UN investigation into alleged violation of international law may lead to charges
The UN Human Rights Council has announced the appointment of the members of the Commission of Inquiry to investigate purported viola¬tions of international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, particularly in the Gaza strip.
Ireland abstained from voting on the resolution setting up the commission. This was regrettable as the operative paragraphs made clear that its mandate is fair and impartial.
The resolution condemned all violence against civilians wherever it occurs, including as a result of rocket fire and established an independent commission to conduct the investigation.
The commission's mandate is ambitious and many findings are certain to be controversial. Navigating the political sensitivities of the Israeli-Pales¬tinian conflict is not part of its remit but already there are efforts to discredit members of the commission. The most important function is to establish the facts and circum¬stances of violations and crimes perpetrated and to identify those responsible. It is not a court of law but the mandate does not just enable but requires that all parties, Israeli and Palestinian, are subject to investigation.
Command and control
In seeking to identify those responsible, the commission will be interested in individu¬als who exercised command and control functions during the conflict.
While the majority of these will be military personnel from the Israeli Defence Forces and the military wing of Hamas, it may also include civilians. These may include the political leaders on both sides.
A practical challenge to the inquiry will be finding evi¬dence that links senior mem¬bers of the Israeli administra¬tion and the Hamas organisa¬tion with specific crimes or actions deemed to be dispro¬portionate or indiscriminate. A,nr>frhf>r imnnrtant function of
accountability measures.
This is part of a broader strategy to end impunity.
Palestinian and internation¬al human rights organisations have for some time advocated for the use of international law mechanisms to examine the situation in Palestine, especial¬ly in relation to the Israeli settlements, exploitation of natural resources and ongoing violations of human rights.
The US has opposed such a strategy and any Palestinian recourse to the International Criminal Court and has threatened to withdraw funding to the Palestinian Authority should it proceed.
Impartial inquiry
The Human Rights Council has already established commissions of inquiry in respect of Syria, Sri Lanka and Korea.
None of these are receiving the co-operation of the relevant government and it is most unlikely this inquiry will be well received in Israel. But it is still possible to conduct an effective and impartial inquiry according to international standards.
Reputable international, Palestinian and Israeli human rights organisations have been investigating and document¬ing violations in Palestine for manyyears.
There is the testimony of victims, relatives, UN and other international staff, media and those who partici¬pated. There is also the sheer scale of the physical and forensic evidence. In this ' regard the commission will be assisted by a team of experts.
Since the recognition of Palestine as a non-member observer state at the UN in 2012, Palestinian president Abbas has come under in¬creased pressure to make the necessary declaration recognis¬ing the jurisdiction of the court and accept the consequences. The evidence gathered by the UN commission of inquiry could play a significant part in this process.
If, as is most likely, the commission finds that war. crimes have been committed and names individuals impli¬cated, it will be impossible for the prosecutor at the Interna¬tional Criminal Court to ignore such evidence.
This may precipitate a formal investigation and possible indictment by the court.
Although such a process will take years, it would be the most significant step in ending the impunity that has charac¬terised the now regular outbreaks of hostilities in the region and the Israeli occupa¬tion of Palestinian territory since 1967.
Prof Ray Murphy of the Irish Centre for Human Rights, NUI Galway, was a visiting scholar with Al-Haq, a Palestinian

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:32 PM

"A television reporter from Finland's Helsingin Sanomat, the "Helsinki Dispatch," spent the night reporting from Gaza's Al Shifa Hospital, where she saw Hamas militants launching a rocket from the hospital's parking lot, confirming a war crime that few journalists have dared report."
Just as Israel was doing during the last two incursions and was filmed doing it.
They were also photographed using children to detect suspected planted bombs and sitting them on the bonnets of their vehicles.
Their use of occupied homes as headquarters and observation posts is long-accepted old news - the high-point was when one group shat in all the cooking utensils of the family that was housing them - you can't beat Israeli potty-training!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:36 PM

Jimmy boy,

"Do you have any evidence this is the case - spo far I have only read that the Israelis are only claiming that the rockets (20 deaths in twelve years) are all Isreali"

Just the reports from Gaza of misfired Hamsa rockets hitting that school, and several hospitals, and the IDF reports ( reputable, and verifiable from video and radar tracks) of the number of misfired rockets.

But since Hamas has (from recent reports) kept the reporters from telling the truth, I expect a lot more will be known AFTER the reporters get out of range of Hamas weapons

You have what, the word of the Hamas Public Health, or the word of the UN based on the report of Hamas Public health? That sure is a neutral source- even you should admit they have a bias and vested interest in presenting Israel in a bad light, regardless of the truth.

As for the name, as long as YOU address me as other than "beardedbruce" I can call you whatever I want. Too bad, but you bring it onto yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:51 PM

"Just as Israel was doing during the last two incursions and was filmed doing it.
"

You make a claim- post the link for that video, if it is not just a figment of your imagination.

Israelis launching rockets from a hospital parking lot while the hospital is in use. SHOW ME.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:05 PM

Jimmy,

"Your opinions might be just thal little bit more credible if they were delivered in a reasonable way, without the unpleasantly blustering, arrogance that they invariably come wrapped in - always a sig of insecurity."



Where is that mirror??? You really need to look in it.

And I am NOT Keith- in spite of your thinking that "they all look alike." I never said "How do you explain that discrepancy?"
OR "We all feel that and it should go without saying."

Or discussed sniper rifles.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:08 PM

Saying you are sorry for all the poor people is just weasel words Steve.

No it isn't, ignoramus. You need to apprise yourself of the meaning of "weasel words".

And I didn't say "I feel sorry for all the poor people", did I?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:17 PM

I have all the sympathy in the world for people on both sides who are forced by inept leaders to live in fear and insecurity, and, in the case of many Palestinians, also under siege and in poverty

We all feel the same on that Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:24 PM

You could have fooled me.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:29 PM

I believe ya, FKWT- thousands wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 05:22 PM

"and, in the case of many Palestinians, also under siege and in poverty"

For which they Hamas to thank.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 05:28 PM

Oh, and Gaza is not and has never been under "siege", it has been under a legal blockade - big difference. The use of the word "siege" is for for the purpose of demonizing Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 05:51 PM

"OTH, you post pages of criticism of Israel and constantly dismiss reasonable criticism of Hamas' brutalities and atrocities and war crimes.

That is biased, one-sided prejudice."

And where pray, can we find YOUR even handed criticism of anything the Israelis do?.............NOWHERE!

That is biased, one-sided prejudice."

Sauce for the Goose, Sauce for the Gander?......Unless it's an Israeli Gander!

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:08 PM

"You make a claim- post the link for that video, if it is not just a figment of your imagination.

Israelis launching rockets from a hospital parking lot while the hospital is in use. SHOW ME."

You constantly fail to give links BB.

You show YOURS, and you'll have the right to demand that Jim show HIS!

Ain't gonna happen though, IS IT?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:14 PM

"Oh, and Gaza is not and has never been under "siege", it has been under a legal blockade - big difference."

And speaking of WEASEL WORDS,...............I think the residents of Gaza (the majority who are NOT Hamas) would have a different impression of exactly what their situation is.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:25 PM

"WEASEL WORDS"

Can't handle the truth, eh!......doesn't fit in with your agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM

'I think the residents of Gaza (the majority who are NOT Hamas) would have a different impression of exactly what their situation is.'

Their "situation" is that Gaza is under a legal blockade because the people governing them, who illegally seized power via a violent coup, bring into Gaza offensive weaponry which it uses to terrorize its neighbour. No other country on earth would tolerate such a "situation" but you and your kind can't stand the fact that Israel is able to defend itself from such terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 07:55 PM

Your conceptions of legal and illegal are nothing if not extremely amusing, minnow.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:18 PM

a legal blockade

Uh-Huh. It is to laugh.

If history is written by the victors, "legal" is determined by the oppressors.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 08:40 PM

The relations between Israel and Hamas are in the nature of armed conflict. Nowadays no formal declaration of war is needed. Hence the rules of the laws of armed conflict apply. This means that Israel may control shipping headed for Gaza – even when the vessels are still on the high seas.

    The rules of naval warfare have not been fully codified in a treaty and are in the nature of binding customary rules. They can be found in the relevant manuals of Western armies (in particular the U.S. and Britain) and in the San Remo Manual prepared by a group of experts.

    In order to be legal, a blockade has to be declared and announced, effective, non-discriminatory, and has to permit the passage of humanitarian assistance to the civilian population. In addition, the San Remo Manual of 1994 includes two conditions: first, the state which applies the blockade may decide where and when and through which port the assistance should reach the coast. In addition, the state may require that a neutral organization on the coast should verify who is the recipient of the assistance. In Gaza, for instance, does it reach the civilians or Hamas?

    A ship that clearly intends to breach the blockade may be stopped already when it is still on the high seas. Stopping the flotilla heading for Gaza in international waters 100 kilometers from Israel was not illegal; in time of armed conflict, ships intending to breach the blockade may be searched even on the high seas.

    Israel is within its rights and is in full compliance with international law because it has fulfilled all of the above-mentioned conditions for a lawful blockade. E.g., in January 2009 Israel notified the relevant authorities of its intention to establish a blockade of the Gaza coast.

- See more at: http://jcpa.org/article/the-legal-basis-of-israel%E2%80%99s-naval-blockade-of-gaza/#sthash.yIUtxj51.dpuf

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 09:48 PM

The maritime blockade is legal under international law. In 2011, a special panel convened by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon examined the maritime blockade. The UN Panel found both the naval blockade and its enforcement, including in international waters, to be legal. This panel of experts emphasized that all assistance to Gaza should be transferred only through the designated land crossings.

The Myth of an Israeli Siege on Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 02:46 AM

The shooting war seems to have subsided and the Israelis and their suckers-up now seem to be getting down to the task of explaining the Gaza Massacre and a picture is emerging of how they are intending to proceed.
The murdered children are being presented as Hamas in disguise, the destroyed homes, hospitals and schools as Hamas outposts and overall, the Israelis are set fair to paint the perpetrators of the massacre as the real victims.
By removing Bar Tselem from the scene, they are in process of 'jury selecting' so they can claim, along with their apologists, that any criticism ios their behaviour is "Antisemitic".
The above analysis of how they intend to handle any enquiry into the Massacre - see (CONTROVERSY SURE TO FOLLOW OVER GAZA STRIFE above) - they want a hand-picked jury who will decide that the killing of 2000 people by a well trained and well equipped army, and the turning of Gaza into the building site they have always wished it to be, (once the former residents have vacated it of course), was OK by them.
And the U.S. is ready in the wings, U.N. veto in hand, t ascertain that things ton't get out of hand (if they are unable to stop an enquiry taking place).
All set fair for another cover-up.
And we have little Booboo on hand here to show us that the near decade blockade of Gaza which has been the cause of the deaths, life-lasting illnesses, hardship and poverty that have filled our screens night-after-night, throughout its existence, and which, if left in place, will make impossible the putting right of the damage and destruction that has been a feature of daily life for the Gazans - DOES NOT REALLY EXIST.      
Jimmy Boy Carroll (getting quite attached to that - pity I didn't think of it when joined this club)

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:01 AM

Left this as a seperate item - the team seems to have difficulty handling too much in the one posting.
I wonder if anybody watched the half-hour news item on the shooting of fleeing civilians by Israeli troops.
CIVILIAN TARGETS
It reported occurrences of groups of Israeli soldiers setting up observation points and killing the residents of the destroyed homes as they scrambled over the rubble looking for their dead and their belongings.
The report was based on the findings of a group of American reporters who interviewed local residents and the bereaved of some of the victims.
Their accounts were backed up by photographic evidence and by a statement that a number of Israeli soldiers have testified to the fact that these events had taken place.
Israel says it will "give the matter serious consideration" - which probably means that the reports will go the same way Bar Tselem has gone.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 05:04 AM

You misrepresent the debate and the contributors.
We all understand that a humanitarian tragedy has occurred, with unbearable suffering, violence and death.
We only differ in our views of why it happened.

Some of us also wonder why there is so much less outrage for the vastly worse humanitarian tragedy across Israel's other border, that has been going on for years not weeks and worsens daily.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 06:54 AM

"Some of us also wonder why there is so much less outrage for the vastly worse humanitarian tragedy across Israel's other border"
Some of us wonder why you spend a great deal of your time defending ans supporting atrocities
Nobody other than you misinterpreting anything.
You obviously have no intention commenting on the fact that Israeli soldiers have been observed executing survivors and are happy to to ignore, excuse or deny such barbaric war crimes.
Pointing to "worse" events as a diversion from a wealth, nuclear-facilitated power is in the process of driving out an entire people by slaughtering them and making their homes unlivable only underlines your ongoing support for that regime.
In order to do so, they are cynically manipulating the facts and suppressing open discussion on it - you have elected to make yourself part of that propaganda drive.
There is no less outrage at what is happening elsewhere - we have all condemned religion-based persecution - only you has in any way supported it.
You are a squalid, atrocity-denying moron
WHAT YOU ARE DEFENDING
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:28 AM

Some of us wonder why you spend a great deal of your time defending ans supporting atrocities

But, of course, I do not.
Neither does anyone else here.

Nor do I defend soldiers acting illegally, as individuals inevitably do in conflict.
They should be held to account and I deplore it.

Again you misrepresent other contributors rather than debate.
I believe that is because your case is weak, but please prove me wrong with argument instead of insult.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:43 AM

"Again you misrepresent other contributors rather than debate."
You have been given debate - you choose to deny it and offer denial and massacre apologism in return.
Where is your response to anything that has been put up
The arrest of the whitleblower who reported the Israeli death squads, the removal of Bar Tselem, the U.S, interference in the holding of an enquiry... and the dozens of other points of debate you have refused to respond to and are claiming do not exist.
You put up pictures of Israeli soldiers and grieving parents put out on a blog by Israeli propagandists, but totally ignore ones of destroyed homes, hospitals, Palestinian wounded and dead....
You explain away a four week massacre, which is at best the wiping out of "hostages" as 'defending Israel' and are now downgrading the victims to fighters in disguise.
You and your squalid little bunch claim opposition to be terrorism - you are now an established part of the Israeli propaganda machine on this forum
If you are opposed to soldiers deliberately shooting civilians, explain why Israel have arrested the soldier who testified to the atrocity, and condemn the removal of Israel's own Huan Rights group, Bar Tselem.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:51 AM

You put up pictures of Israeli soldiers and grieving parents put out on a blog by Israeli propagandists,
No.
It was a jihadist site, and it was posted because Steve denied that Hamas even had an army.

Again you misrepresent and insult instead of debate.

Make a point and I will answer it.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Ivor
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 05:46 AM

Jim is absolutely correct. The attack on Gaza was a war crime in all its aspects.

The slaughter of around 2000 people..at least 400 children...hundreds of women some of whom were pregnant and the wounding of around 9000 others is a war crime.

The horrific wounds were caused by blast injuries, shrapnel, crush wounds and fire.

The IDF stands revealed as an army of highly trained child killers cheered on by rabid crowds of right wing young Zionists!

Hospitals, clinics, UN Schools and whole apartment blocks and neighbourhoods in Gaza were blown up.

A city of nearly 2 million now has no water and no sewage plants ...around half a million people are homeless.The power station was blown up by Israeli bombs.

Farms and orchards on the edge of Gaza have been destroyed by shelling, tanks and bulldozers.Unexploded bombs and shells litter the ruined city.Gaza's main bomb disposal expert was killed just a few days by one such shell.

But it is important to remember that Gaza itself is a refugee city. Its residents were refugees from what is now Israel driven out at the point of a gun.Or they are the children or grandchildren of the original refugees. The city which we have seen destroyed was built on top of sand dunes by these people.

The Palestinians have a right to resist the occupation of their homeland and the murder of its people.

On the occupied West Bank huge numbers of Palestinian men have been imprisoned at one time or another by the occupying state. Thousands of homes have been bulldozered and land stolen.

Although many politicians in the West continue to support Israel this murderous terrorist state has been rumbled as the huge pro Palestinian demonstrations across the world has shown.
Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 06:54 AM

Nicely summed up Ivor.
"It was a jihadist site, and it was posted because Steve denied that Hamas even had an army."
There is no "army" in the sense Israel has one.
Hamas is a rag-tag group of irregulars opposing a nuclear facilitated bunch well trained, well armed thugs who have topped their massacre by killing survivors.
The Israeli government if so concerned about this that they have arrested a whistleblower who has given evidence of it happening!!!
You have chosen to depict the grieving families of these and have not uttered a word of condemnation on the slaughterer that has taken place - on the contrary, you have defended the killing of civilians by claiming they are legitimate targets because they are being "used by Hamas" (the slaughter of hostages you were so offended by when I said you supported it).
You have defended the use of flechettes, and completely ignored the use of DIME missiles and white phosphorus.
You have defended the destruction of hospitals and schools - though in fairness, you have yet to say whether any of this has been random bombardment or targeted
You are now quibbling about the ages of the dead.
Yoou and your mates are a bunch of inhuman moral messes who are happy to defend an atrocity.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 08:20 AM

More misrepresentation.
I did not choose to represent any grieving families.
I was showing Steve pictures of the Al Qassam Brigades because he did not believe that Hamas had an army, and he suggested the pictures on the Israel site were photoshopped.

No hospital has reported any flechette injuries, or from dimes or phosphorus.
Your "evidence" was hardly convincing.
It is a lie that I "have defended the use of flechettes."

Ivor, Hamas is guilty of war crimes against Israeli and gazan civilians, but it has yet to be shown that Israel has committed war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 08:40 AM

"Ivor, Hamas is guilty of war crimes against Israeli and gazan civilians, but it has yet to be shown that Israel has committed war crimes."

To people like Ivor and the other stooges just the act of Israel defending itself is a war crime. Some people can't stand to see Jews fighting back, they should just politely accept being rocketed, bombed and mortared and not raise a fuss........this way to the gas chambers ladies and gentlemen.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 08:45 AM

"No hospital has reported any flechette injuries, or from dimes or phosphorus."
Are we now back to claiming that flechettes were not used?
Are you out of your mind?
There have been no attempts to assess the damage or the injuries incurred over the last four weeks, let alone report on them.
Flechettes have been used before by the Israelis, they are a standard part of their armoury ,AND THEY ARE YET TO DENY THAT THEY HAVE USED THEM - YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO DENY THEIR USE PURELY OFF YOUR OWN BAT - THIS IS THE EXTENT OF YOUR PRO-ISRAELI SYCOPHANCY you are a fanatical head-banger.
"Your "evidence" was hardly convincing."
My evidence is as above - Israel uses flechettes and has never denied having used them, now or in the past .
Both DIME and phosphorus usage has also been reported by Medicins Sans Frontiers, who have shown a video showing their effects on its victims.
"It is a lie that I "have defended the use of flechettes."
You really are round the twist - what the fuck are you doing here? Israel has accepted their use by their refusal to either deny or respond to claims that they have, the report of their use includes photographs of the missiles, Israel is, at the present time, the only military group to have access to them, nobody else has questioned their use, in the past or now - you are denying it on their behalf.
Round the twist - take your pills!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 08:55 AM

The IDF and Bibi Netanyahu deserve a Nobel Peace Prize for their restraint during such a challenging war. Israel has indeed been disproportionate; it has been disproportionately decent.

Israel's disproportionate decency

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,hw
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 09:33 AM

maybe Obama can give them his, since he isn't using it

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:03 AM

To people like Ivor and the other stooges just the act of Israel defending itself is a war crime.

Perhaps, minnow, you'd care to apprise us as to how killing almost five hundred kids in a month amounts to "defending oneself".


Oops, l almost forgot. Of course, it was Hamas wot killed all those kids. And women. And old people. And everyone else who's ever been killed since the year dot. I hear that the Romans blamed the Crucifixion on Hamas. They definitely murdered Abe Lincoln too. Faux News told me so.

Incidentally, you don't know what "stooge" means. Why don't you look things up instead of making an arse of yourself? Minnow, of course, is a type of small fish. It also means an insignificant person of extremely limited intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:08 AM

If Israel has used flechette rounds, it has not been reported.
Your silly story by a Palestinian propaganda group that one person had been wounded by a flechette weeks ago is most unlikely to be true.

IDF has not even used phosphorus smoke rounds, never mind anti-personnel rounds.
I have seen no convincing reports of their use either.
That is not me denying anything Jim.
just saying that there is nothing to deny yet.

Instead of accusing me of this and that, make a point for me to answer.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:08 AM

stooge (plural stooges). One who knowingly allows himself or herself to be used for another's profit; a dupe.

Fits you perfectly......dupe.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:12 AM

Steve and Jim, is it your view that Israel has a right to defend itself, provided it does not hurt anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:33 AM

Yes, Israel has the right to defend itself. Next question...

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:45 AM

And Yes, the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves.

Next question.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 11:24 AM

Neither can do that without hurting anyone.
Is that OK?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST,Ivor
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 11:57 AM

The history of Israel from its inception is a story of the mass murder of many Palestinians and the expulsion from their homeland of many others.

It is a story, a true story, of mass imprisonment, often without a semblence of a trial , expulsions, beatings, the occupation of large swathes of Palestinian land, the bulldozing of tens of thousands of Palestinian homes, the casual shooting with live rounds or rubber bullets of children and teenagers, the building of a giant aprtheid wall on Palestinian land, the building of illegal settlements on occupied territories by the Israeli state and gun toting Israeli fanatics and the destruction of Palestinian property whether it was the public records stored at the Orient House showing landownership from the time of the Ottoman Empire or the smashing of farms, orchards and water supplies.

The history also includes the Israeli attacks on Lebanon and the mass bombings and carnage to civilians that ensured.

The USA and the UK along with other Powers have aided and abetted Israel in its vicious oppression of the Palestinian people.
Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:03 PM

Not true.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:07 PM

No -- but, wow, what an imagination!

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 03:58 PM

Neither can do that without hurting anyone.
Is that OK?

Well, you could try to manage it without killing five hundred kids in a month.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 04:21 PM

They do.