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Digitrad and Blicky

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Mo the caller 13 Aug 20 - 04:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Aug 20 - 05:11 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Aug 20 - 05:13 AM
DaveRo 13 Aug 20 - 05:22 AM
Mo the caller 13 Aug 20 - 01:30 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Aug 20 - 02:49 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 13 Aug 20 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Rossey 13 Aug 20 - 03:46 PM
Joe Offer 13 Aug 20 - 03:51 PM
Richard Mellish 13 Aug 20 - 05:08 PM
GUEST,Rossey 13 Aug 20 - 05:46 PM
Jeri 13 Aug 20 - 07:30 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Aug 20 - 07:33 PM
Mo the caller 14 Aug 20 - 03:39 AM
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Subject: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 04:35 AM

When someone names a thread Lyr add do the words get added to the digitrad. Or is some filter used to see if it is suitable.
I was looking for a Gracie Fields song and there was nothing in the DT but ther is a Lyr Add thread.
There seem to be several songs missing from the DT that I would expect to find there. E.g. Millers Will mentioned by Susan in the Wills thread.as being there is not when I search.

And did someone say that you have to do something different when using blicky to link to something on mudcat?


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 05:11 AM

Mo,
As I understand it they're not added automatically, but reviewed 'as and when', with a possible backlog. Once added to DT the original post of the lyrics is identified by the addition of a 'little bird': '^^@.
When linking (creating a Blicky) from Mudcat to a page within Mudcat you don't need to include the whole of the address shown on your browser, ans this sends the request into the world wide web, only to redirect here. Just use the section after the last '/'. So for a link to this page from somewhere else on the www you would need to include:
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=168386&messages=1 (or, as number of messages is additional info, just: https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=168386
For a link from within Mudcat, either in a thread, or in a PM you only need to include:
thread.cfm?threadid=168386

Hope thie helps


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 05:13 AM

Sorry, 'little bird' should have been '^^'.


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: DaveRo
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 05:22 AM

The blickifier bug: here.

TL/DR: after you paste the URL, remove the s from https


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 01:30 PM

Thank you.

Has anyone else noticed that some songs are missing from the DT


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 02:49 PM

Joe Offer will probably jump in here at some point to discuss the process, but I think the way he's linking new lyrics these days is to make them available even though the DT isn't actually being updated right now.


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 03:18 PM

Yes, when I was a newbie member I had some questions about songs that were not in the DT, and so on.
At the time, Dick Greenberg -- was that his name -- was still living, although ailing.
The Greenbergs had a great deal to do with the DT, and when Dick Greenberg in particular was no longer well enough to continue the maintaining and updating chores, things sort of came to a halt.
That was the gist of what Joe Offer said back then, in answer to the questions I had.

Now Dick Greenberg is no longer alive;
and at this point the whole DT database and its upkeep
are at a transitional stage,
I literally do not know who does what at whose direction nor how it is now done.
Which makes me speculate, maybe it ISN'T done at all with the DT under the present conditions,
and Joe Offer has to sort of work around the DT instead of working with it.
If I'm mistaken, I'm sure Joe will correct what I've said.

So, Mo the caller, in answer to the OP,
No, a Lyr Add thread does not automatically link a lyric to the DT.


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 03:46 PM

I have been irritated for many years by the cloth eared transposition errors on my father's own song, included on the database without approval which wrecked the scansion and don't fit the tune given to go with it.
These sadly has never been corrected, and has spread on other uses, because of the now fixed nature Unfortunately the database breaks copyright on many different grounds.. and is both a great resource, but a flawed one. Fine with genuine trad. works, but modern copyrights should not have been included, unless correctly checked and approved.
    I don't know how to respond. Dick Greenhaus, curator of the Digital Tradition, died last year. We don't really feel we have the right to edit or correct his work, so we merely host a copy of his database as he left it. That same database is hosted by countless other places online.

    You posted yor father's song in this thread (click). There are many songs, all with the same title. We've never been able to determine whose is which. We have left the discussion thread open for any who wish to post further information. The "Dark Island" I sing is the one with the chorus that begins, "Isle of my childhood...."
    -Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 03:51 PM

We haven't come to an agreement what to do with the Digital Tradition. The last "official" edition of the Digital Tradition is 2002. I believe there were some additions to the DT online at Mudcat, but nothing substantial. You can get downloadable DOS and Windows versions of the DT by going to the About the Digitrad page on QuickLinks and then following the "Download" link.

Maybe we'll get around to updating the Digital Tradition, and maybe not. I'm starting to think we should leave the DT as it is, warts and all, as a memorial to Dick Greenhaus and the wonderful work he did on the DT with Susan Friedman.

In the meantime, I've been busy reviewing and labeling and crosslinking all the songs that have been posted. I try to make sure that the word ADD (allcaps) and the song title and author are in the title of every message containing valid lyrics (note, the song title in the message title should be in Title Case, not ALLCAPS). I also try to ensure that lyrics are documented as to source and songwriter name. When I'm satisfied that lyrics are accurate and worthy of use, I try to make sure that the song is in Digital Tradition format, with the title in ALLCAPS and the songwriter name in parentheses on the second line, then a blank line, then the lyrics, and then any notes below. If it's all good, I change the song title to Bold and a larger typeface. Please note: Please post only one song per message, with the song title in the message title - it makes songs so much easier to find.

Now, if you want to find songs, the best way to do it is to use the "Old Advanced Forum Search" in QuickLinks. That page contains most of our Mudcat search engines, but the one you want to use to find messages with songs, is the very first one, the "Subject" box of our old Forum Search.

If you want to find threads by thread name, the best tool is our Filter, which is at the top of the list of threads. Put a distinctive word in the Filter box and set the age back (usually to "all")

So, the old Forum Search searches by message title or the name of the poster, and the Filter searches by thread title. Since these search engines search only titles, they are fast and accurate and up-to-date. That's why I usually use these search engines.

We do have a much more sophisticated search engine, the "Lyrics and Knowledge Search" in the grey box on many Mudcat pages. The trouble is, this search depends on an index that must be generated periodically, and it's a bitch of a job to do and doesn't get done very often - so the searches in the grey box don't come up with messages posted recently (like in the last year or more). You will note that Max has added a "Google Custom Search" to the grey search box - that search is up-to-the minute updated by Google, and it can be quite effective.

But generally, I use the message and thread title searches, and they do just what I need.

Now, there's another valuable tool to be found in the Quick Links dropdown menu on most Mudcat pages - it's the Song Origins & Info database. Most of the songs in this database are traditional. Songs with a known songwriter usually are crosslinked under the songwriter's name, and I'm working with Max to try to get a similar Songwriter database.

So, that's the deal. The Digital Tradition is more-or-less frozen at 2002, and we've been adding and categorizing songs for 18 years since then. In general, the threads will contain lyrics that have been peer-reviewed over 18 years, so they're likely to be more accurate than the lyrics in the DT. We've encouraged people to post multiple versions of songs in the threads, and that can be frustrating to people who want only one, definitive version of a song.

One more thing - I've been trying to develop "Origins" and edited "DTStudy" threads for songs, as much as possible. Oftentimes, I form these threads by moving or copying messages from other threads, trying to ensure that the Origins and DTStudy threads have the best available information on a song.

Hope that helps.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 05:08 PM

Joe,

All I can say is power to your elbow.

Richard


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 05:46 PM

No criticism of you Joe.. but the quality of transposition combined with no room for correction is annoying. At least here on Mudcat discussions, some things can be updated. I have added a few lyrics (with credit), on some songs my father wrote which have been included in threads. My own typing is pretty poor at times, but with the Digitrad, it is the fixed nature of the database and its use that is its problem. Digitrad is now left effectively orphaned with no means of updating to correct items where mistakes have been made. Such is life..


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 07:30 PM

As the DT started as Dick and Susan's song books, and now is a reference used by many, I think Dick would've wanted the most correct versions of songs. I've seen so many horrible mistakes (most other than the DT), that are picked up by other lyrics sites, and passed on. So unintentional mistakes are what get remembered.
If ANYTHING, keep an archived copy of the original DT somewhere, but have one that gets corrected.

I'm wondering what Susan thinks.


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 20 - 07:33 PM

It's a legacy for Dick, I'd think keeping it going and viable would be a desirable choice. Someone has probably asked these questions already - is it difficult to edit? What form does it take?


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Subject: RE: Digitrad and Blicky
From: Mo the caller
Date: 14 Aug 20 - 03:39 AM

The reason I asked the question was these posts

Subject: RE: Songs about wills
From: Susan of DT - PM
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 06:18 AM

Miller's Will 1

Miller's Will 2

Subject: RE: Songs about wills
From: Susan of DT - PM
Date: 12 Aug 20 - 06:24 PM

I'll try again. I used the link maker, below.
Hrumph - the link maker is not working. Those are the titles in the DT, so look them up.

I tried to look them up, didn't find them but have tried again and there they are. But only if I put in the ' - Millers Will doesn't work . But "Max's Handmade Magic Multi-Site Search" works with or without the '.
Well I've learnt something new today. Two things as I can make links to Mudcat threads now, too.
Thanks.


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