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Help: Who corrects the DT??

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Clinton Hammond 08 Aug 01 - 06:54 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Aug 01 - 07:00 PM
Clinton Hammond 08 Aug 01 - 07:28 PM
Banjer 08 Aug 01 - 07:32 PM
GUEST 08 Aug 01 - 07:33 PM
Clinton Hammond 08 Aug 01 - 07:36 PM
IvanB 08 Aug 01 - 07:41 PM
Charley Noble 08 Aug 01 - 07:53 PM
MMario 08 Aug 01 - 07:58 PM
Jeri 08 Aug 01 - 07:59 PM
MMario 08 Aug 01 - 08:01 PM
Jeri 08 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM
Clinton Hammond 08 Aug 01 - 08:08 PM
Charley Noble 09 Aug 01 - 11:01 AM
Murray MacLeod 09 Aug 01 - 06:12 PM
GUEST 09 Aug 01 - 07:58 PM
Charley Noble 09 Aug 01 - 08:20 PM
GUEST 10 Aug 01 - 08:17 AM
Joe Offer 17 Aug 01 - 06:55 PM
Mark Cohen 17 Aug 01 - 07:04 PM
Clinton Hammond 17 Aug 01 - 07:12 PM
Mark Cohen 17 Aug 01 - 07:14 PM
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Subject: Who corrects the DT??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 06:54 PM

My recent thread on The Ramblin' Rover brought up a question I've been meaning to ask...

The DT is rife with errors... who's working to correct them, if at all?? Is there somewhere we can submit corrections?

We wanna know out here...

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:00 PM

The first thing to do is to make sure that, when you post material, it does not contain errors; most mistakes in the DT are the result of people providing wrong information.  The second thing to do would be to look at the FAQ; if you don't know how things work here by now, and who does what, then perhaps it's time you started paying attention...


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:28 PM

MD... thanks... for nothing I mean...

I looked at the table of contents on the FAQ and didn't see a subject heading addressing my question... And when I did find it, the text had nothing at all to do with my question... so I asked... Got a problem with that???

Now, does anyone else have anything USEFUL to add?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:32 PM

I would think sending a PM to Dick Greenhaus would be a beginning since he is the curator of the DT.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:33 PM

Have a look at this thread


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:36 PM

Ta very much Banjer & Guest...

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: IvanB
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:41 PM

Funny, Clinton, I just looked at the FAQ thread and clicking on the heading "Who's in Charge Here?" took me to a post from Joe Offer which, among others, listed Dick and Susan as the responsible parties for the DT database. Since the post was from Joe Offer, who's currently on vacation, I don't think that information crept in there in the time between Malcolm's post and now.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:53 PM

I suspect it actually takes corrections a long time to actually appear in the DT, maybe as long as it takes for new songs to be added, like once a year or so. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:58 PM

minimum it would take at least as long. If the corrections are just discussed in a thread it might well take longer as I don't believe the harvesting crew has any easy way of "mining" for corrections - as they do when people correctly use "Add:" for lyrics or tunes.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 07:59 PM

From my understanding of the section of the FAQ on corrections, the correct thing would be to post the song with an ADD prefix, and say it's a correction.

The FAQ is somewhat confusing. The question seems to be about making corrections based on a different singer's version of the song, and the answer is about whether or not someone should post a different version.

If you post 'em, we can get the formatting right before Dick gets them - that's usually what Joe does when songs are posted here.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 08:01 PM

and then - there is always the debate of "when is it "wrong"? There have been documented cases of singers who sing one lyric but whose liner notes contain different words. Likewise musicians who play one set of chords when recording and performing but whose published music contains another set.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM

Yeah, MMario, but Ramblin' Rover is definitely BADLY messed up.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 08:08 PM

That's what versions and varients are for eh MMario... The case in point, Ramblin' Rover, is just flat out wrong...

Glad to know I'm not the only one who finds the FAQ "somewhat confusing", Jeri...


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Aug 01 - 11:01 AM

If this recurring question isn't dealt with in the FAQ, it should be. Of course the answer (what is right) is not an easy one but at least the process for submitting "corrections" or "varients" could be clarified. I personally like to see "extra" verses and "variations" of verses; it's more like what happens when real people learn songs from one another. And the real test (other than historians) for any "change" is whether others adopt it and pass it on.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Aug 01 - 06:12 PM

Charley, I would agree that in traditional songs, it is permissable and even in some cases desirable to do some personal editing, but in the case of a written song, written by a master of the art, may I say, I would venture to suggest that changing the lyrics at random is just sheer disrespect.

At the very least, anybody posting the lyrics for others to peruse should make every effort to ensure that what is being posted is what the author wrote.

I have to confess that when I sing "The Rambling Rover", I sing "Crippled with arthritis" rather than "Bent with arthritis". My reasoning is that people get bent with rheumatism, not arthritis, but if I were giving the lyrics to someone else I would give them exactly as Andy wrote them.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 01 - 07:58 PM

I appreciate the efforts of DT to keep the lyrics database going, and all the grassroots efforts on Mudcat to support it.

But to be quite honest, it has become pretty inaccurate, which can be a real liability if one isn't careful about checking the sources, etc. My solution: I tend to do "quick checks" in DT, but go on to other more reliable sources, both on-line and off, especially for songs with known authors.

Andy has a wonderful songbook, the best I've seen published by a folkie of their own stuff. It includes Ramblin Rover Clinton! It can be purchased on-line at Chivalry Music here:

http://www.chivalry.com/shopping/


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Aug 01 - 08:20 PM

Murray, no one really "changes lyrics at random" but people do make changes and usually they think they are making "improvements." If the author/master is identified, then I also agree that they should be credited, and if one is using their song commercially all efforts should be made to contact them before hand. If I am making "significant" changes to someone's song, I generally like to submit both what I think is the original and the revised song to anyone else who is interested in the song so they can judge what I have been working from. Sometimes the original author is not happy with my practice, and if very unhappy I would comply with their judgment and leave their song alone. There are always other fish in the sea.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 08:17 AM

Andy Stewart has a page on his website where you can provide all the information for using his songs commercially with permission too. Can't remember if it has a field for entering changes to lyrics or not though.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 06:55 PM

If you have corrections to the Digital Tradition, post them. It's that simple. No magic formula. We'll send a correction file to Dick, and he'll look at what you say and decide whether it's worth adding to the database. Put the word ADD in the title of your message, and make clear in the text that you're submitting a correction. If there's an existing thread on the song, post your corrections there. If not, start a new thread.

I didn't see a need to explain that in the FAQ, because it seemed to be pretty obvious.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:04 PM

Joe, you've just given a nice, succinct answer to Clinton's original question. I'd suggest that it's NOT obvious, and it's worth including your answer in the FAQ. And thanks for STARTING the FAQ in the first place!

Yes, the DT has lots of errors and sometimes it's hard to find things and it takes a long time to get new songs and corrections into it...but if you can live without perfection and instant results it's an incredible resource.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:12 PM

Thanks Joe!

And Mark is right.. it wasn't all that obvious...

;-)


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Subject: RE: Help: Who corrects the DT??
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:14 PM

By the way, it might help to include another reminder that when you say, "Put the word ADD in the title of your message," you are referring to the small box just below "Reply to Thread", where you can change what appears at the top of your post after the word Subject. I think that's what you meant, anyway.

However, as useful as that feature is, I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people posting here, myself included, ignore that little box and go straight to the big inviting empty space underneath, so the subject of each post always winds up being "RE: (the original thread title)". And I don't know if there's any way of changing that. Oh, well....life gets complicated when people get involved.

Aloha,
Mark


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