DT Attribution & Minor Corrections - recorded msgs

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 07:44 AM

Lagan Love - lyrics by Joseph Campbell - two sets of lyrics in the 2002 Digital Tradition, one unattributed.
♪Mo Ghile Mear - original Irish Gaelic was by Seán Clárach Mac Domhnaill [the DT transcription is badly mangled]

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NOT Corrected in 2002 Digital Tradition
-Joe Offer-
The Transit Van - Seán Mone http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7066
My Son in Amerikay - Alf Mac Lochlainn (in DT as "Son in Americay")

---

NONE Corrected in 2002 Digital Tradition
-Joe Offer-^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:41 PM

Strange Fruit," see current thread, should be attributed to Abel Meeropol aka Lewis Allen solely. Also original lyrics should be checked- this could be someone's revision.

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NOT Corrected in 2002 Digital Tradition - DT attributes it to Billie Holliday and Lewis Allen, which I consider plausible.
-Joe Offer-
Since this does not seem to be resolved, I am leaving it alone. SOF

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:46 PM

Waltzing Matilda- lyrics correctly attributed to Banjo Patterson, but music is by Christina MacPherson.

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Thread #49846   Message #754630
Posted By: GUEST
25-Jul-02 - 06:35 PM
Thread Name: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors

Dicho - what is your published authority for your statement?

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Looks like there's a need for discussion on this one. Continue discussion in this thread (click). If we come up with conclusive information, I'll make sure it gets posted here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 06:35 PM

Dicho - what is your published authority for your statement?

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 08:19 PM

Waltzing Matilda discussion posted at Joe's link above, as requested.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:24 PM

It may well be that many of the missing attributions have been added to the new version of the DT, which we have not yet seen; and I have been adding missing attributions to the "Missing Tunes" thread, too; however, it may well be useful to have a list in one place; not to nag, I hope, but to provide a helpful resource. Here are a few more; I think they're all accurate. Some have been mentioned quite regularly over several years.

FAIR ELIZA Robert Burns, 1792.
href=file:///@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5244&Title=SEVEN%20DAFFODILS>SEVEN DAFFODILS, of which it is a mis-spelled duplicate. Written by Lee Hayes and Fran Moseley in the early 1960s. In copyright.

"Wae's me for Prince Charlie" is in Hogg's Jacobite Relics, II, #99, 1821. In the notes he notes that it was said to be by Willam Glen. Hogg gives the tune, and in the notes mentions that it is "The Gypsie Laddie". Hogg has a further (last) verse to the song as follows.

But now the bird saw some redcoats,
And he shook his wings wi' anger:
"O this is no land for me,
"I'll tarry here nae laner."
A while he hover'd on the wing,
Ere he departed fairly:
But weel I mind the fareweel strain;
'Twas "Wae's me for Prince Charlie!"

---

Only one of the above corrected in 2002 Digital Tradition
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:12 PM

MO Ri GEAL DILEAS should be Mo Rún Geal ... same problem with diacriticals in this DT item as with Mo Ghile Mear, though this is not what I meant by "attribution", of course. I'll send Dick a correction when I can.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:22 PM

Well, yes; I know that. Many of those problems seem to be the result of people copy-and-pasting accent marks instead of using the correct html codes; there isn't much point in complaining later on when they stop working, which is pretty well guaranteed to happen. Fortunately, Gaelic uses fewer diacriticals than the majority of European languages. Proper attributions are, I think, more important, though I certainly share your concern for accuracy. In the past, it does seem that the DT has placed more weight on quantity than quality; maybe this thread will help to redress the balance.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 02:03 PM

Tibbie Dunbar First verse and Chorus Robert Burns - 2nd and third verses Jim McLean (dt songfile TBiednbr

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2002 Digital Tradition has Burns verse and chorus only.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 02:21 PM

In the thread, yes; the DT text doesn't include the modern verses, and is correctly attributed to Burns: TIBBIE DUNBAR^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:26 PM

In this thread (click), Bryan bowers says that Hot Buttered Rum was written by Tommy Thompson of the Red Clay Ramblers.

The DT is uncertain, but says it may have been written by Bowers. Bowers strongly denied that.

-Joe Offer-

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Corrected in 2002 Digital Tradition
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 11:06 PM

"Wae's me for Prince Charlie" is in Hogg's Jacobite Relics, II, #99, 1821. In the notes he notes that it was said to be by Willam Glen. Hogg gives the tune, and in the notes mentions that it is "The Gypsie Laddie". Hogg has a further (last) verse to the song as follows.

But now the bird saw some redcoats,
And he shook his wings wi' anger:
"O this is no land for me,
"I'll tarry here nae laner."
A while he hover'd on the wing,
Ere he departed fairly:
But weel I mind the fareweel strain;
'Twas "Wae's me for Prince Charlie!"

^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From:
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 06:11 PM

According to Peace In the Valley was written by Tommy Dorsey

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Thread #49846   Message #755870
Posted By: greg stephens
28-Jul-02 - 07:24 AM
Thread Name: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread

Thomas A Dorsey that should be, I think. He was quite a stickler for it, and there is another famous musician called Tommy Dorsey.

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Peace in the Valley
Words and Music by Thomas A. Dorsey. Copyright Thomas A. Dorsey, 1936
-Joe Offer-

---

Unattributed in 2002 Digital Tradition ^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 07:24 AM

Thomas A Dorsey that should be, I think. He was quite a stickler for it, and there is another famous musician called Tommy Dorsey.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:05 PM

I did a search for songs by Joe Hill, and didn't come up with Preacher and the Slave. I figured out the reason - the DT lists the songwriter as "Joe HilI."
-Joe Offer-

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Corrected in 2002 DT

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:40 PM

Ah, the old OCR problem.

MRS. ADLAM'S ANGELS  The DT file tentatively credits this song to Brian Bowers, which is wrong; Ralph McTell wrote it. There are mis-hearings in the transcription, too, which I'll correct in the current Tunes Wanted thread when I get a midi sorted out.

---

NOT corrected in 2002 DT ^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:55 PM

I KNOW we came up with the name of the songwriter of "Key of R," and Bill Day denies responsibility. Whodunit?

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Not corrected in 2002 DT - how can we "correct it" when there is no answer yet as to who wrote it?

---

January, 2004: Elizabeth W. "Libbie" Anthony of the group "Women, Women, and Song" wrote the "Key of R." Note that the US has "amber waves of grain." See thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim McLean
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM

As advised by Joe,I'm addaing this note. My song 'The Massacre of Glencoe' appears under many different titles. here are a few:
Glencoe, The Rape of Glencoe, The Ballad of Glencoe, The Battle of Glencoe, The Sad Glen (This was a blatant attempt at ripping me off!!')
My song 'Smile in your Sleep' also appears under various titles:
Don't Cry in your Sleep, Hush hush, Highland Lullaby,They came in a Blizzard.
And quite often under 'Traditional'
Thanks, Jim Mclean

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim McLean
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM

As advised by Joe,I'm adding this note. My song 'The Massacre of Glencoe' appears under many different titles. here are a few:
Glencoe, The Rape of Glencoe, The Ballad of Glencoe, The Battle of Glencoe, The Sad Glen (This was a blatant attempt at ripping me off!!')
My song 'Smile in your Sleep' also appears under various titles:
Don't Cry in your Sleep, Hush hush, Highland Lullaby,They came in a Blizzard.
And quite often under 'Traditional'
Thanks, Jim Mclean

---

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Sep 02 - 08:47 PM

I compared the attributions above with the 2002 Digital Tradition. Very few of the corrections made it into the 2002 DT, but this list was started after Dick Greenhaus had finished compiling the database.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:34 PM

LORENA, the popular Civil War song, published in 1857. Words (poetry) by Rev. H. D. L. Webster. Music by J. P. Webster. Not attributed in the DT.
^^
See thread 14713: Lorena with references to sheet music by Masato Sakurai and others.
File name and tune file given as Lorenna; should be Lorena.
filenames are NOT words that appear in the song - purposely misspelled to be different.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:11 AM

Joe - If you read the thread on Strange Fruit, there is no way you can find the DT attribution plausible - Billie Holiday and others who were there all say that Lewis Allen wrote 'Strange Fruit' that is the only correct attribution, and why are you the sole arbiter here?

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Dick Greenhaus, editor of the Digital Tradition, is the sole arbiter of DT content. I only reported my opinion. BMI attributes the song to Lewis Allan. Greenhaus reported that he had seen the song attributed to Holiday, and to Allan. Greenhaus did not attempt to make a determination about the credibility of either attribution - he merely reported what he saw. See DTStudy: Strange Fruit, and post any further discussion there.
I think that Allan/Meeropol would have reason for complaint if his name were not mentioned at all - but it was.
Please note that this "attributions" thread was started after the 2002 edition of the database was completed. Nothing that has been posted here will appear in the 2002 database, unless Dick Greenhaus had already received corrected information from other sources.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: IanC
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:32 AM

Joe

re: Waltzing Matilda's tune, I recently gave some information but not in that thread. Unfortunately, AS USUAL, I can't find it. I'll keep trying.

:-)
Ian

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Here it is ... in fact the whole Waltzing Matilda music is well documented in This Thread.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: IanC
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:42 AM

Here it is ... in fact the whole Waltzing Matilda music is well documented in This Thread.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:13 AM

"It's a long way to Tipperary" was written by JACK JUDGE.

Bill Caddick even wrote a song about it for his show "Sunny Memories".

Harry Williams is often included in the credits, but that was only because he'd been a good friend of Jack's who'd often lent him money when trade was poor, and Jack promised in return that is he ever wrote a best-selling song, he would put Harry's name on it.

---

See this thread (click) for details.
-Joe Offer- ^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:31 PM

Beer Barrel Polka (Roll Out the Barrel) was a popular Czech song, music by Jaromir Vejvoda. English lyrics by Lew Brown were published in 1934.

Source: American Popular Songs, by David Ewen.
-Joe Offer, former Milwaukeean-
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 03:34 PM

I think we've established that Rare Ould Times was written by Pete St. John. Big Mick has found his St. John songbook that somebody borrowed from him, and will come up with the goods on this one for us.
-Joe Offer- ^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From:
Date: 22 Sep 02 - 04:08 PM

Dean Cadalan Samhach was written by John MacRae, the Kintail Bard. He had emigrated to North Carolina in 1774, where the song was written a few years later. Some contend that due to the subject matter it was actually written by his wife. Except for the speculation about his wife, the information was found in the Emigrant Experience by Sister Margaret MacDonnell of St. FX University.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From:
Date: 22 Sep 02 - 10:26 PM

Also not in the 2002 DT is the information on Mairi's Wedding.

Written by Johnny Bannerman in 1938 and translated by Sir Hugh Robertson a year later into English.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 01:46 AM

Candy Man 2 - 1971 pop song by Leslie Briscusse and Anthony Newley, from the movie Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. #1 hit for Sammy Davis, Jr.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:53 AM

The Bolinder Song was written by Dave Blagrove of Stoke Bruerne.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:11 AM

"In my Liverpool Home" was written by Stan Kelly (real name Stan Bootle).
^^

---

Malcolm says below:
Stan Kelly (Bootle) wrote "I Wish I Was Back in Liverpool," and others (see his website at Stan Kelly-Bootle), but never claimed to have written In My Liverpool Home. Pete McGovern is usually blamed for it!

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:20 PM

Additional (and conflicting) info on 'Michael Blann's Drinking Song' above:

[1976:] Michael Blann was a shepherd, singer and whistle player who lived near Shoreham in Sussex, until about 1930. He wrote out a book of his songs in the 1880s and the book, including this song, is preserved in Worthing Museum. But Blann did not write the song, and its history is more complex still. It was written by John Hollamby, a grinder at Hailsham windmill, who in 1827 published the words in an anthology called 'The Unlettered Muse'. There it was called Gooch's Strong Beer. Blann, I think, adapted these words and added the chorus. The tune is, of course, Yankee Doodle. (Vic Gammon, notes 'The Tale of Ale')
^^
Could this mean it wasn't Blann, but his sister who adapted the words from John Hollamby's song?

The Jeelie Piece Song is attributed to Adam MacNaughton in the DT. This should be MacNaughtan.
^^
And in Bells of Rhymney, the town of Neathe should be spelled Neath.
^^
Am I being too pedantic?

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 10:17 PM

It was probably Michael Blann's sister Harriet who re-wrote the song. She called it Blann's Beer; it was never called Michael Blann's Drinking Song until recorded by Revival performers.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 06:04 PM

That's what I gathered, Malcolm, but have we got any proof? Where does the info come from that it was 'probably' his sister who re-wrote the song, not himself?

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 08:32 PM

I quote from the book Shepherd of the Downs,ed. Colin Andrews, 1979:

"The song is written in a different hand on a loose sheet of paper, pencil lined. The sheet is inscribed: this Song is for You my Making H. Blann."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 09:53 AM

Rise up Jock was written by Dave & Carole Pegg.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 10:17 AM

Sorry, meant to type Bob & Carole Pegg.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 10:45 AM

That's in my earlier list, but I only mentioned Bob. Was it a dual credit, then? The record label just says PEGG.

Here's another:  SONG OF THE SEALS was written, as Song To the Seals, by Harold Boulton (words) and Granville Bantock (music). As Bantock died in 1946, it should be assumed still to be in copyright.
^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 07:38 PM

Thanks for the info on Harriet Blann, Malcolm. I'll have to look the book up when I get to Britain next year. (Now, if every Mudcatter contributed one digitalised book a year to the Gutenberg Project, what a marvellous library we'd have by Hogmanay 2003! :-))

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 04:50 AM

Take Your Time was by Peter Mundey, not Loudon Wainwright. Link leads to thread with lyrics and songwriter correction.
^^ -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 05:46 AM

Farewell to Fiunary (spelled Funery in the DT) was written by Rev Tormod Mac Leòid [Norman McLeod]. ^^There are several errors in the DT; a better version is at www.tannahillweavers.com
Also Alice made corrections at the thread Slan le Fionnairigh.
broken link
We don't know whether or not the lyrics sung by Kist O' Deil and Tannahill Weavers areMcLeod's original - there is some doubt - The song has become best known in the Gaelic translation by Archibald Sinclair and some people have re-translated the Gaelic into English!

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 06:47 AM

Master McGrath, second verse not included in DT, also the song was written by Henry McCusker of Silverwood Lurgan to mark the second victory in 1869 0f Lord Lurgan`s famous greyhound in the Waterloo Cup.

On the twelfth of December that day of renown,

McGrath and his keeper they left Lurgan Town

A gale on the Channell soon blew them oe`r,

On the thirteenth they landed on fair England`s shore.
^^
Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 12:29 PM

Drifting Too Far From Shore, by Charles E. (Ernest) Moody of the Georgia Yellow Hammers, 1923.
First appeared in a Stamps-Baxter Songbook, which is where the Monroe Bros. "probably learned it."
See thread.
-Joe Offer-^^

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Alice
Date: 07 Oct 02 - 02:23 PM

ISLE OF INNISFREE not attributed in the DT was written by Richard Farrelly. Richard's son Gerard gives correction of the lyrics and history in this thread:
^^ http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=4131

The error of confusing the song "Isle of Innisfree" with the melody of the Dream of Alwyn is explained by Barry Taylor (also in thread link above).
"Subject: RE: ISLE OF INNISFREE
From: Barry T - PM
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 08:31 PM

The association of Alwyn with this song is a common phenomenon on the web... the evolution of threaded discussion into substantiated fact. We witnessed the same thing happen to another popular song... Pete St. John's Fields of Athenry, whose lyrics for a time were erroneously tagged to a non-existent traditional tune.

By having sequenced a midi of The Isle of Innisfree I am embarrassed to have been partly responsible for this musical fiction, as my midi spread across the web as some kind of authenticated proof of the traditional tune."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 03:11 PM

As Time Goes By, words and music by Herman Hupfield, 1931 (see thread). As the thread explains, people often think this song was written by Hoagy Carmichael.
^^ -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Oct 02 - 03:48 AM

Bread and Roses - DT correctly shows that lyrics were written by James Oppenheim (in 1914). the tune that's in the DT is variously attributed
to Martha Coleman or Caroline Kohlsaat (Edith Fowke & Joe Glazer & Sandy Paton say it's by Kohlsaat (click for discussion)).
The more recent tune by Mimi Farina is in Mudcat MIDIs.
^^ -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 09:28 PM

I'll Fly Away - Albert E. Brumley, 1932.
^^
The tune doesn't sound right to me, either. I think what we have is the harmony line. Can anybody submit a MIDI with the melody?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 01:14 PM

Noticed these in recent threads:

Fanny Power -- should be Song of the Ghost, NOT by Yeats and Carolan, but by Alfred Percival Graves and trad.. Correct lyrics are there, too. (Info from Malcolm Douglas.)
^^
"Touch of the Master's Hand - mentioned above and in the database with no attribution - is a poem written by Myra Brook Welch ca 1927,
^^
It was published in "The Messenger" and reprinted in "Good Old Days". Sally Rogers saw it, liked it, and set it to music. (This is from an old Prairie Home Companion tape featuring Sally Rogers.)" -- Contributed by an anon. Guest here.
Whoops, that "anon. Guest" who posted about "Touch of the Master's Hand" named himself in the next post in that thread: it's Walter Corey.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 01:28 PM

Whoops, that "anon. Guest" who posted about "Touch of the Master's Hand" named himself in the next post in that thread: it's Walter Corey.

~ B in T