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DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?

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GUEST,Mr Happy 01 Feb 05 - 09:43 PM
John in Brisbane 01 Feb 05 - 11:04 PM
Joe Offer 02 Feb 05 - 12:30 AM
Lin in Kansas 02 Feb 05 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,Jon 02 Feb 05 - 05:04 AM
GUEST 02 Feb 05 - 05:17 AM
Lighter 02 Feb 05 - 07:34 PM
Mary in Kentucky 02 Feb 05 - 09:18 PM
Bob Bolton 02 Feb 05 - 09:36 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Feb 05 - 09:37 PM
pavane 03 Feb 05 - 06:22 AM
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Subject: Tune Req: DT Tunes*Do they sound odd to you?
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 09:43 PM

I've only very recently had speakers attached my DIY PC so am new to listening tunes on DT.

Of the few I've listened to, most sound really odd or downright WRONG!

Am I alone in this opinion?


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 11:04 PM

Got any good/bad examples Mr Happy?

Regards, John


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 12:30 AM

The DT tunes often do sound "off." I think it's because they're the basic tune without accompaniment, and the tempo may often be faster or slower than we expect. If you use the downloadable Windows version of the DT, you can change the tempo and the voice, and the results will surprise you. An organ or woodwind voice will often give you a song that souds much closer to what it sounds like when you sing it.

I've worked on a couple of tunes this last week, and I was pleased to see that Dick's notation came out exactly as it was printed in the songbook I was looking at - not a single note different. I've checked a good number of tunes over the years, and I've been amazed at how accurate Dick's transcriptions are.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 01:22 AM

Also bear in mind that a whole bunch of the tunes have been scored by us amateurs, and poor Dick has to put up with what he gets, a lot of times!

Lin


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:04 AM

Mr H, of tunes I know and have tried in the past, I'd be inclined to say the MIDIs are pretty reasonable transcriptions. Where there have been differences to what I know as "the tune", my inclination has been towards different people knowing different versions - something that is impossible to check without both knowing the source and having that material to hand.

There are/were a few bad MIDIs in the Mudcat online version (something I think is bound to happen with what I presume was a block conversion of several thousand) but they were tunes that say wouldn't play at all with Windows Media Player. Very occasionally, there was a request for help on one of those. I could "fix" them in Cakewalk which would read them and allow me to edit out the "crap" to give someone a working version.


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 05:17 AM

I'd be inclined to say the MIDIs are pretty reasonable transcription

I'd better qualify that. The dt is Songwrite - Mudcat is MIDI.


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:34 PM

It may be that Mr. Happy is listening to "mdoal tunes" and just isn't used to the sound of modes. I used to think that some were truly weird, but exposure got me used to them. Mixolydian and Dorian are my favorites. (Aeolian's pretty good too.)


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:18 PM

Mr. Happy, do you think you are having difficulties with the "voices"? (Are you hearing voices? ;-))

What I mean --

Your computer will use the instrument that your midi player last used. I used to wonder why sometimes the midi had a piano sound, and sometimes a really weird (IMO) sound. It all had to do with the last midi I had listened to on the net.

Malcolm (I think) suggested a one note midi in your favorite instrument. Play this one to get the player back to what you like.

Joe suggested an organ or woodwind. I like the clarinet sound.


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:36 PM

G'day Mary, Mr Happy (and everyone else,

I have always submitted the tunes I have annotated or transcribed (or, very occasionally, written) in the form of single notes "Grand Piano" MIDI voice. This should sound as if someone has carefully picked out the melody line ... only ... on a piano.

Sometimes ... where I have posted straight from an existing file ... I may have submitted with MIDI "Harmonica" voice instead ... because that's the voice I listen with at home - I play button accordion, mouth organ and concertina (mainly), so that 'free reed' sound is what I like to hear.

I would never send off a tune MIDI as a multi-part arrangement, with chords, harmony, rhythm, &c ... because my aim is to simply teach the tune. If some people are only used to hearing highly arranged and presented work ... well, it might sound odd ... or downright wrong!

Regard(les)s,

Bob


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 09:37 PM

I go for oboe, which (if your sound card is adequate) gives a far better impression than does the default piano. The softer attack and extra sustain of any wind voice will do.

I'm still hoping that Mudcat will one day re-set the MIME definitions on the server, so that I can just play the midis, as I used to be able to, through the browser's native player; rather than having to load them deliberately into Winamp or the like, or having to save the things to disk and then play them. I do have a copy of the cd Digitrad, but (because still essentially DOS based) it's very slow and tedious to use. The online DT works a great deal faster and offers more sophisticated search options.

Part of the problem with the sound files is the completely unnecessary re-purposing of standard midi formats into the long obsolete Songwright format or the non-standard Noteworthy (the latter usually resulting in incorrect note durations) and then translating them back into midi for the online DT. It's not surprising that the end result sometimes sounds strange.

The conversions sometimes also result in unplayable files with as many as 600 empty bars before the notation starts. Make them all in standard midi format in the first place, and these problems won't arise.


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Subject: RE: DT Tunes - Do they sound odd to you?
From: pavane
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 06:22 AM

Mary in Kentucky:

"Your computer will use the instrument that your midi player last used"

That is the sign of a poorly-constructed MIDI file. A good file should always start with a reset sequence which clears all previous settings. It should then insert the correct definition of the instrument to be used.

Sequencers do not always add this, and many users ignore it.


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