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TECH: New Windows DT Midi problem

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GUEST,John 16 Sep 02 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,John 16 Sep 02 - 05:52 AM
MMario 16 Sep 02 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,John 16 Sep 02 - 09:22 AM
Bill D 16 Sep 02 - 10:57 AM
Bill D 16 Sep 02 - 10:58 AM
Bill D 16 Sep 02 - 11:02 AM
Trevor 16 Sep 02 - 12:19 PM
dick greenhaus 16 Sep 02 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,john c 16 Sep 02 - 01:56 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Sep 02 - 02:39 PM
Bill D 16 Sep 02 - 03:29 PM
MartinRyan 16 Sep 02 - 04:34 PM
artbrooks 16 Sep 02 - 04:46 PM
mheiman 16 Sep 02 - 04:50 PM
Bill D 16 Sep 02 - 06:00 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Sep 02 - 06:46 PM
Dave Bryant 17 Sep 02 - 07:25 AM
GUEST 17 Sep 02 - 07:36 AM
GUEST 17 Sep 02 - 07:55 AM
Giac 17 Sep 02 - 09:05 AM
Amos 17 Sep 02 - 10:10 AM
GUEST 17 Sep 02 - 10:12 AM
Joe Offer 17 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM
MMario 17 Sep 02 - 10:38 AM
Bill D 17 Sep 02 - 10:45 AM
Bill D 17 Sep 02 - 10:47 AM
Amos 17 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM
Dave Bryant 17 Sep 02 - 11:16 AM
Bill D 17 Sep 02 - 11:32 AM
Joe Offer 17 Sep 02 - 02:06 PM
Bill D 17 Sep 02 - 02:52 PM
Noreen 17 Sep 02 - 04:11 PM
Davetnova 17 Sep 02 - 04:41 PM
GUEST 17 Sep 02 - 06:07 PM
delphinium 17 Sep 02 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,Jon Freeman 17 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM
Snuffy 17 Sep 02 - 08:12 PM
Giac 17 Sep 02 - 09:24 PM
Jim Dixon 18 Sep 02 - 12:31 AM
GUEST,DAvetnova 18 Sep 02 - 03:53 AM
Dave Bryant 18 Sep 02 - 04:24 AM
John in Brisbane 18 Sep 02 - 04:47 AM
artbrooks 18 Sep 02 - 08:53 AM
MMario 18 Sep 02 - 08:56 AM
GUEST 18 Sep 02 - 09:23 AM
delphinium 18 Sep 02 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Ed 18 Sep 02 - 10:41 AM
MMario 18 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM
GUEST,john c 18 Sep 02 - 12:15 PM
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Subject: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,John
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 05:42 AM

I've downloaded the new DT release and am rather impressed!

However, I can't get the midi files to play.

I get the 'bouncing ball' of the notes turning blue as they play, but no sound.

Midi works elsewhere, and I've made sure to shut everything else off to ensure that a different program hasn't hogged the sound card.

Any ideas?

John

I'm using the Windows version on win98


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,John
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 05:52 AM

And yes, I do have quicktime installed

John


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: MMario
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 08:39 AM

where did you download it from?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,John
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 09:22 AM

http://www.mudcat.org/download/DTSpring2002Windows.zip

John


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:57 AM

hmmm...it worked here...*thinking about possible confusion about default directories*...that is, does the DT program know where your midi player is? It 'should' be automatic..but hey, this is Windows!

(well, in looking at the folders, I am not sure how it works...it looks like maybe the song format is converted to midi 'on the fly' by the database...


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:58 AM

I see only one actual midi sequence...tell us Dick...how does this work?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 11:02 AM

ok...I see the reference to Quicktime...so I guess I have it, since it works for me...perhaps there is some setting needs to be changed...


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Trevor
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 12:19 PM

Mine is working fine as well.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 12:39 PM

On the disk, there's a URL for Mark Heiman, who did the actual Windows programing. You'd be best off asking him. Before distributing the disk, I tried it on three Windows 95 computers, 5 Windows 98s, two MEs and one XP. Worked for me.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,john c
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 01:56 PM

Same problem here - lots of great words and no noise. Maybe it just doesn´t like Johns......


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 02:39 PM

I seem to have the same problem GUEST,John describes: No sound. And, by the way, I do have QuickTime installed. And I can play all kinds of sound files.

By the way, what I have is called "QuickTime Player" a.k.a. QuickTime version 5.0.2. The QuickTime program itself accesses the QuickTime website and assures me this is the most recent version. Is this the version everybody else is using?

And by the way, I never got the old DOS version of DigiTrad working either.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 03:29 PM

hmmm...I seem to have Quicktime 2.1.2...and also version 3.0. At least, I have "read me" fils for both...here is the relevant parts from version 3. ---------------------------------------------------

Learning More About QuickTime

The QuickTime 3.0 software package includes two simple but powerful applications you can use to begin working with QuickTime. MoviePlayer enables you to view and edit movies and pictures. PictureViewer enables you to work with still images in a wide range of common formats. QuickTime 3.0 also includes software that will enable your Internet browser to view QuickTime and other file types in your web pages. This software will automatically be installed into your Internet browser.

To learn more about these applications and other QuickTime features, visit our website at http://www.apple.com/quicktime.

About Roland's Sound Set for General MIDI and GS Format

This release of QuickTime includes an instrument sound set licensed from Roland Corporation that makes a complete General MIDI compatible sound set. It also includes additional sounds necessary to make a complete GS Format compatible sound set.

What is the GS Format?

The GS Format is a standardized set of specifications for sound sources that defines the manner in which multitimbral sound generating devices will respond to the MIDI messages. The GS Format also complies with the General MIDI System Level - 1. The GS Format also defines a number of other details over and above the features of General MIDI. These include unique specifications for sound and functions available for tone editing, effects, and other specifications concerning the manner in which sound sources will respond to MIDI messages. Any device that is equipped with GS Format sound sources can faithfully reproduce both General MIDI sound recordings and GS Format MIDI sound recordings.

So...I have no idea what I did except to get version 3 a year or two ago...I know the database songs played for me immediately, and I know I sure ain't gonna mess with it very soon..*wry grin*

It does say it 'installs into your browser'...but I think that is for streaming...I hope someone who knows answers will sign on and solve this.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:34 PM

... also having problems with the sound....

Regards


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:46 PM

I'm hearing sound fine...and it appears that I have Quicktime 5.0 installed.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: mheiman
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:50 PM

Jim Dixon was kind enough to alert me of this thread.

The application does require Quicktime to play the tunes, and my first suggestion if you're having problems would be to download and reinstall the newest version of Quicktime. You can also look for the presence of qtimecmgr.dll and qtim.dll, which are required for the playback to work.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 06:00 PM

well....interesting. I do not 'seem' to have either of the files mentioned, though playback works fine.(perhaps those were names in 3.0? and version 5 is different?)

I do have a file called 'quicktime.dll'...but it is in a plugin directory under my graphics viewer "Irfanview" (which will play midi files)

there are files in "C\Windows\system" that seem relevant...especially one named "QuickTimeMusicalInstruments.qtx"

(I use a very good search utility in a File Manager called "PowerDesk"...I will keep looking..)


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 06:46 PM

OK, I just downloaded and installed QuickTime version 6, and it still doesn't work.

And I still don't have any files called qtimecmgr.dll or qtim.dll.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 07:25 AM

Mark Heiman - I can't get the tunes to play either - I've got QUICKTIME 6 on my machine. One of the things that I'd be interested in knowing is the exact procedure which you are using to play the files.

The songs are still all in SONGWRIGHT format so presumably you are converting them into midi files before you play them - what are you using for this SONGWRIGHT itself or MusicEase or some custom software ?.

My version of Quicktime does not seem to play midi files directly - it seems to need to convert them to a .mov file first - is this true of all versions ?

Is the Midi version of the music stored anywhere as temporary file ?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 07:36 AM

I've copied the following from the other thread, seemed to belong here more. Hope that's OK.

Subject: RE: New DigiTrad: OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
From: Jon G. Bartlett
Date: 16-Sep-02 - 04:11 PM

Grateful thanks and heartiest congratulations to all concerned. Can someone help me with 2 points? 1) If we come across errors (typing, ascriptions, mondegreens, etc.), who should we talk to? Maybe a thread for these things that those who can correct them could work down? 2) when I open the Windows version and click a song in bold (i.e. with tune) I get a box that says "Unhandled exception: c000008e At address 0052b266" and an OK button. When I hit the OK button I get the standard "Illegal operation - shutdown" message. I've rebooted but the problem stays the same. Is this my inferior computer, or a bad download, or...? Help, please! And onec again, thanks for the excellent update! - Jon Bartlett


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 07:55 AM

No problems playing songs and the program looks nice but the Windows 3.1 version crashes here too. I get blue screens of death if I try to print followed by the illegal operation "The DIGITAL TRADITION has done something (can't remember the words) to module KERNEL32.DLL) and I have to shutdown/restart to clear it.

If instead of printing, I cancel the print dialogs, and then try to use the search, I get a succession of blue screens and the only way I have found out of it is to press the reset button on my PC.

It is probably some pecularity with my Windows 98SE set up but it is the only program I have tried that has caused me this sort of problem since re-installing Windows several months ago.

Jon


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Giac
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 09:05 AM

Okay, so I've tried all the things mentioned and I still can't get sound, except for the second tune -- A_MOTH~ -- which appears to be in a different format. It plays just fine.

On each the others, I get a request to pick which program I want to use. If I designate "any" program, I get an error message saying the file is in a language that QuickTime (or whatever) doesn't understand.

I use Windows ME and upgraded to QuickTime 6.

By the way, the one and only file that plays shows the WinAmp (lightning) symbol instead of the Windows symbol on the rest.

Practical suggestions? It does no good to say how well this works on other people's systems. I'd like it to work on mine, if possible. The rest of the download works just fine, and I love it.

Mary


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:10 AM

Betatesting the Mac OS X version -- all works as advertised. THansk for reminding me about testing the print interface.

THis is a terrific program. Good looking, fast and the features are really nice.


A


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:12 AM

Well that really helps solve other people's problems, Amos

Thank you for such a useful post.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM

I don't know if this is a Digital Tradition problem, or a problem with Quicktime. I'm not that technical. All I know is that this 2002 version works on my machine, and the previous Beta caused me problems.
I'm not aware of a Windows 3.1 version of the DigiTrad - is this one supposed to work on 3.1?? As far as I know, Bill Day was the last living person on earth to use 3.1, other than the $%^&#* laptop my stepson uses. I guess what the message above refers to is DigiTrad version 3.1, for Windows. I guess we'll have to wait for version 4.0 to get rid of that nomenclature conflict.
Quicktime, like RealPlayer and Windows Media Player, is an aggravation. The early versions were more-or-less transparent, but they sometimes don't do what you want them to. The current versions attempt to sell you something, and sometimes they don't do what you want them to.
Quicktime has a particular problem that really bugs me. If you have an older version installed on your computer, it sometimes conflicts with newer versions - and newer versions don't always uninstall the older versions. If you install a piece of software that uses Quicktime, it will sometimes install Quicktime whether you want it or not. Sometimes, it seems to install an older version of QuickTime over a new one, giving you the old version/new version conflict all over again.
So, that's a mess we'll have to deal with. It's one of the benefits of new technology.
I think I'll continue to primarily use the DOS version of the database, but I'll go to the Windows version when I want to hear or see tunes. If you know how to use it, the DOS version does a better job of searching and extracting lyrics. Besides, it's kind of cool to be able to use something as arcane as DOS has become.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: MMario
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:38 AM

neither of the listed files are on my computer after installing quicktime 6 this am. (new install - never had quicktime before)

no qtimecmgr.dll no qtim.dll

can find no reference to either on the quicktime knowledge base or discussion forums.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:45 AM

Joe...I STILL have WIN 3.1. sitting over there beside me, ready and waiting. The gerbils are fat & lazy, but they could summon up enough energy to run the system and connect me to Mudcat for a short while in an emergency, I betcha!

Yes...QuickTime is designed to 'integrate' with browsers and such...meaning it goes and does things to your registry, system files etc....Perhaps the thing to do is to TOTALLY un-install any version one has, and re-install clean so that there are no conflicts.. I guess because I still have nothing beyond version 3, I have not run into that.

I have VERY carefully avoided having any software that tells ME what it's gonna do, whether I like it or not...


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:47 AM

BTW....I believe Quicktime does have an un-install routine. I found files labled that way when I was doing my searches...at least in my version 3.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM

GUEST17 Sep 02 - 10:12 AM:

Your thoughtfulness and courtesy are beyond--or below-- words.

A


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 11:16 AM

Giac - the tune A_moth is a MIDI file so it should play OK. Most of the tunes are in the SONGWRIGHT format that the DOS version uses. These would either have to be converted to MIDI format or played by special software.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 11:32 AM

also posted to the 'announcement' thread

I have found a potential bug..(not surprising in a new product)

"I opened it, opened the 'search' window and searched on the word 'mouse'. I got several hits, including "The Frog & the Mouse"...Then I clicked on the song title IN THE SEARCH WINDOW, and got a blank rectangle and a hung PC!...that is, it refused to do ANYTHING more....not even ctrl-alt-del would work....so I rebooted and tried again, this time scrolling down the list to the song I wanted. It displayed and played just fine.....once again I tried clicking IN the search window, and it again gave me a serious BLUE SCREEN error."

I would suggest accessing the songs only from the scroll window until this is checked out...I am emailing the author.

(The search itself seems to work fine...just not the link from it to the songs.)


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 02:06 PM

Note: Do Not Try This Search At Home. This search works only on Bill Day's computer, which is somewhere on the fringe of the Twilight Zone. All others will come up with "Mouse and the Tailor." That's what makes Bill Day what he is....
[grin]
Windows 3.1, indeed...
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 02:52 PM

hmmmpppffff....your computer could get the same results! you never know! Frogs and mouses am a lot more common!


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:11 PM

Great to see the new version; I've just downloaded it and unfortunately I can't get any sound, either, despite downloading Quicktime and its installer. (I don't have anything called qtimecmgr.dll or qtim.dll).

I never managed to get sound with the old version of the DT from CD either, but I have no problem getting sound with any other application I use.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Davetnova
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:41 PM

I have this on 98 at work it works fine. At home with XP and quicktime 6 no sound. (excepting A_moth which plays with windows media player). I tried reconfiguring quicktime to associate with audio files - no difference.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:07 PM

Was this program 'beta tested'?

It seems quite extraordinary that this Quicktime issue wasn't picked up.

We have a program where one of the fundemental parts (the tunes) doesn't work for many people, yet everyone want's to say how wonderful it is!

It isn't wonderful. It doesn't work!


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: delphinium
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:27 PM

Yesterday I downloaded the DT and Quicktime - great to have all the songs but, like others above, no sound. I twiddled a few things today and now the sound works!

Don't know what I did, don't think it was anything to do with the actual files - just pushed a few more buttons, including the "start" button multiple times, other keys, etc. (Yes, I kick pop machines too.) Also copied the DT into another folder on the same drive as Quicktime but now I've deleted that and the sound still works. I think the little PC elves just took a while to decide to let me hear the tunes.

Now I'm off to check out more songs ...


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM

I have since tried it on Win 95 and the crashes I mentioned do not occur there - I've not tried sound though.

At the moment, everything seems to point to my problem being specific my computer. Anyone else using Win98SE 4.10.2222A with Kernel32.dll 4.10.2222?

Jon


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 08:12 PM

It seems like a few of the people with NO SOUND problems are trying to play from the tunes directory - THERE IS NO WAY THIS WILL WORK FOR ANYBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE SONGWRIGHT.

You have to open The Digital Tradition.exe program and select your song from there. When you have a screen with the music at the top and the words at the bottom click the PLAY button on the grey (gray in U.S.) bar in the middle - does it work now?

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Giac
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 09:24 PM

Had hope for a minute there, Snuffy, but that doesn't work for me either. Still no sound. ~;o(

Maybe I'll try un-installing QuickTime and installing anew tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 12:31 AM

Will those of you who CAN play tunes in the normal intended way from the DigiTrad software please tell us what version of QuickTime you are using? I suspect the older versions work and the newer ones don't, but I can't confirm this without more information.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,DAvetnova
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 03:53 AM

The version I have that works on a 98 machineis 5. the one on xp that doesnt is 6


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 04:24 AM

I've had a chance to try the new version at home and it plays fine. I have Quicktime version 5 at home so it looks as if version 6 is the culprit. Has anyone managed to play tunes with Quicktime 6 ?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 04:47 AM

I haven't yet tried the new DTm but have had the prototype for a couple of years. Does the new vwesion produce output files in abc format?

Good to see that Bill D still uses Win 3.1. I still have one PC in the house with 3.1. Why? Well it works just fine for word processing and encyclopedia applications for kids homework, (I do need a good spreadsheet prog), but not nearly well enough to support my kids desire for the latest PC games. PC's are for work(ish), while PlayStations are used for games - and there are no TV's in the bedrooms.

Cheers, John


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 08:53 AM

Jim Dixon: I'm using QT 5.0 without problems.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: MMario
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 08:56 AM

I have win 98 and qt 6 at work - no sound. same software at home - have sound.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 09:23 AM

MMario,

Presumably your home setup has the qtimecmgr.dll and qtim.dll files?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: delphinium
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 09:58 AM

I have Windows 2000 and newly installed QT 6 - no sound at first but now sound works. In my install there are 6 dll files, all in the "Plugins" sub-folder, and none called qtimecmgr.dll or qtim.dll

People with Quicktime 6 might check the QTInfo.exe file to make sure that QT has correctly identified their system and sound card, etc?


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 10:41 AM

I've run QTInfo.exe to make sure, but everything seems to be in order. The fact that I can use QuickTime in other applications suggests that it's working correctly.

I've also changed all the QuickTime settings to associate it with all 'File Type Associations' and have tried every option under the 'Sound Out' menu.

Still no sound.

Ed


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: MMario
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 10:49 AM

ditto here ed.


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Subject: RE: TECH: New DT Midi problem
From: GUEST,john c
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 12:15 PM

I´ve tried everything I can think of - reinstalled Quicktime, downloaded the DT a second time, opened from the .exe file, located the things I was supposed to - and still nuthin´!!!!!!

J.


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