BS: KISS keep it simple

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 10:44 AM

On one of my infrequent visits back into town, I'll have to check with a genuine physicist whether there's still a debate about the difference between predicted and measured zero-point energy. The last time I heard, it was around 120 orders of magnitude, which is even bigger than the gap between real life and Truth Social.

.... I'll step aside from this thread awhile. It's full of infrared herrings: all heat and no enlightenment.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 02:37 PM

I bet there is that much magnitude of energy between our lab results and the mile-wide Phoenix lights craft.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 12:45 PM

Speculation about UFO energy sources has gone on since the 40s.
Bigalow Aerodynamics has claimed we have working prototypes of our own.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 01:18 PM

Avi LOEB will announce his findings regarding an interstellar object that crashed into Earth this coming week.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 01:30 PM

We're all interstellar objects.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 02:01 PM

Believe it or not, we are from our Solar system, including meteors, comets, and asteroids. Interstellar objects are far more rare.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 02:06 PM

The heavy elements are from exploded distant stars.
You might have some on your finger.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 03:33 PM

Yeah. Discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 06:42 PM

The most common elements, like carbon and nitrogen, are created in the cores of most stars, fused from lighter elements like hydrogen and helium. Super Novas make the heaviest elements, like zinc, silver, tin, gold, mercury, lead and uranium. Iron, however, ends the production process and doesn't fuse into different elements.
element creation

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 09:09 AM

You failed the test. Iron is the last element that causes the star to collapse and initiate the production of the heaviest elements from the pressure of the final collapse which then explodes in a Nova.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 09:25 AM

Interstellar is a vague term which simply means "among (or between if you must) the stars." If you mean "outside the heliopause" you need to say just that. I'm "inside" the heliopause (i.e., I'm under the influence of the sun-related things that stop influencing me when I go beyond it), but I'm not part of, or in or on, the sun, therefore I'm interstellar if I want to put it that way. It simply isn't a scientific term unless qualified. It's a nice word though, as are helicopter and mellifluous. Musk and Branson may be able to help you one day.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 06:34 PM

When Avi Loeb announces his interstellar debris find you will be incensed at the further allusions.

Steve is linear in the sense he thinks in terms of wrong or right, black or white, win or lose, genius or idiot.

A more accurate distinction is that we have entirely different consciousnesses.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Aug 23 - 07:53 PM

You can't do anything accurately. Now the thing is that you are attempting (usually unsuccessfully) to address matters of science in this thread. It seems never to have occurred to you that, in any discussion of a scientific matter, it's vitally important to use scientifically accurate language which will communicate ideas clearly and without ambiguity. Time and time again you show that you are incapable of doing that. Sad, really.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 04:28 AM

It's the deviation from the thread title that gets me. The opening post was addressed to me specifically and promised to simplify his arcane ramblings. It has failed to achieve that object quite spectacularly. It has become a platform for said ramblings and not only explains nothing but tries to imply that I am stupid because I do not understand the workings of his weird mind.

Still, it does achieve a couple of things. Firstly, it reassures me that it is not just me that has no idea what he is on about half the time and, secondly, it keeps all the shite he spouts in one place :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 07:11 AM

Keeping things simple is an effort to dumb things down for understanding.
Dave getting your physics from movies like the Flash will be more entertaining for you.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 07:58 AM

See what I mean?

Don, I understand physics and many other things at many levels. What I don't understand is your opinion on science. The 900+ posts in this thread seem to indicate that you are incapable of explaining what you think and why you come to those conclusions. Instead of rational explanation you either just cut and paste someone else's theories or resort to personal abuse. This became obvious after the first couple of hundred posts. The more you do it, the more you show yourself up to be a self aggrandising phoney.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 08:16 AM

As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs. Amos had his science thread and was piqued that I did not source everything. A new idea is hard to footnote. Having just two or three lucky speculations is not a lot but it shows anyone can successfully think. To be fair it's best to have started as a child be it golf, music, or science.

I started with the standard model and the symmetry theory which are reductionist and materialistic models of reality. I am up to the description of pan-psychic theories which include the nature of consciousness. Energy generation alternatives are a benefit to us all.
There may be something beyond fusion that is on our horizon.
I know a couple guys who won't find them.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 08:52 AM

Free thought is a deviation from a structured lining up of dominos. New ideas and invention has never been a linear process, read Connections.
I understand maybe 3 grand ideas of Einstein and how he simply arrived at those new notions. Even he did not see all the ramifications of his ideas nor did he do all the math to prove them.

If you are looking for a simple explanation of everything you too will be as disappointed as Dave. I have NEVER called anyone stupid although it is helpful to answer stupid questions because it takes prior knowledge to learn something new. The trolling of this thread has not helped the spirit of this thread or its potential but it has not defeated curiosity. The trolling is as natural as quantum variation.

Science be it accurate, false or general has affected civilization be it Evolution, Eugenics, or Relativity. It is critical to your present and future.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 09:00 AM

Believe it or not, Don, that is a bit better. It shows us a little of how you think. We may disagree but at least you have tried to to explain that your theories started in amateur science and have gone on to pan-psychic theories, which are not science at all. What you still fail to do is acknowledge that many of your past proclamations are not science either but more related to the philosophy of conciousness. And, again, at least you say that something MAY be on the horizon. Theories are fine but not facts. The last personal attack does let you down somewhat though.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 09:10 AM

Correction: "The trolling of this thread 'HAS' helped the spirit of this thread and its potential"

The pushback has required that I either make ideas more concise or relatable. We ALL have a measure of knowledge and ignorance. Get used to it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 09:24 AM

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy. By the time of Isaac Newton, there was a philosophy of physics. Panpsychism is a philosophy of science and is gaining more favor in the last decade.

It may be a hard pill to swallow but despite all our human discoveries and fact-finding, it is nearly zero compared to the unknown and potentially unknowable. we need everyone's input and imagination.
The accidental discoveries are numerous.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 09:36 AM

"As another amateur science enthusiast, I show others the weakness of the past status quo and might inspire others how by simply thinking, anyone can make breakthroughs."

The unjustified outburst of ego there is simply staggering.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 09:39 AM

I don't like when people say science is the new religion. While ancient religion does have some metaphorical truths that are shared with science, much of religion is nonsense or the obvious.

Nonintuitive conclusions in science may look like nonsense but there can be much more to it. Nonsense has the potential to lead to more concrete ideas but has a low success rate.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 10:10 AM

You may have been led to believe that you are merely average.
I don't care who you are but you have the potential to be PHENOMENAL,
see something phenomenal or encounter something/someone phenomenal.
Its better to look for yourself than follow a crowd.
The Universe does play dice and sometimes gives a great notion.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM

Starting with Plato science has been a philosophy

And in between religion stepped in and screwed the lot. Only science is, well, scientific. A theory may start as imagination but it is hard work, fact checking, testing and peer reviews that make it more realistic. Explaining theories as being either philosophical or the work of god is the lazy persons way out.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS simple QUESTIONS
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 10:24 AM

Something anyone can do is join a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY !
answers are optional and not required.

For example why do many diverse plants have the specific aroma or taste of Lemon, Pineapple, or mint?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 10:30 AM

Why do Lemon and Pineapple deserve capital letters at the front but mint does not? :-D

I have no idea what a QUESTION COMPETITION ORGY is. I tried Googling it. Bad mistake...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 11:35 AM

What animal has more vertebrae than a giraffe?
A Felix Catus.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 11:43 AM

If whales have 37 to 81 vertebrae how many do we have?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Charmion
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 12:17 PM

Humans normally have 33 vertebrae, Donuel.

And the Latin name for the domestic cat is Felis catus -- note both spelling and capitalization. Normal people go with "house cat".

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 05:01 PM

I find cats have an amazing quality of empathy. They have adapted to be part of the human family with their protection of our grains against rodents.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 23 - 06:02 PM

More trivia; Turkey has the most sympathetic cat protection laws for their kitties in the world.
10,000 years ago immigrants to Cyprus brought their cats with them by boat.
Egypt had an unfortunate fad of mummifying their cats along with family members.
Cats have adapted differently in different countries to blend with different cultures.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 23 - 01:31 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/08/29/metallic-spheres-interstellar-origin-avi-loeb-finds/70699783007/

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 Aug 23 - 03:06 PM

> Felis catus [...] Normal people go with house cat.

I prefer Moggus domesticus, so ner. More over in the proper thread.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 06:39 AM

What normal people say compared to Moggus and Felix casts an aspersion on the Abbynormal.

With 750 million Felis catus worldwide, by number they are the most successful predators.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 06:44 AM

There are plenty of insects that are predators that far outnumber cats. And there are probably hundreds of thousands of spiders in my garden alone.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 08:08 AM

How could all 48 powerful telescopes, including the Vatican telescope and binocular telescope All in Arizona, not see the Phoenix lights?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 08:39 AM

Speaking of spiders there was one year here that favored spiders above all. Everything was covered in webs and wolf spiders grew to three inches and could jump a meter at a time.

Of course, people outnumber cats.


Perhaps the Phoenix lights were lower in the atmosphere than telescopes could see at such an angle.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 09:12 AM

The Governor saw it, many thousands of people saw it, hell even Kurt Russel saw it. What made this sighting odd was that this UFO was in excess of a mile across. It slowly and silently moved over the entire State.

Media and Governmental denialism quickly came into play. It now reminds me of the Trump denialism and big lie fanaticism.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 09:44 AM

Okay, so Kurt Russel (sic) saw it but I'm waiting until Dionne Warwick weighs in.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 10:13 AM

Dionne only played an alien in Men in Black
but Presidents have had sightings as well as these old guys

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 10:33 AM

So, after a moment's thought, you realised that you were wrong about cats. Could I suggest that from now on you have a moment's thought BEFORE you post?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 12:02 PM

It doesn't matter. In your mind, I am always wrong, evil, or lying.
It also doesn't matter because I don't reply to 1955 anymore.

We have a segment of cat DNA in our genome that is hard to explain how it got there. However you may have thought that dogs would be a little closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, but it turns out that cats actually have 90.2% of the DNA in common with us!
Compared to us cats also have one more vertebra.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 12:24 PM

What does "I don't reply to 1955 anymore" mean?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 01:21 PM

Yes it matters. You constantly make assertions that need fact-checks first that you haven't carried out. This is not lying but it's exceptionally careless and untrustworthy behaviour. As for evil, deluded would be a better descriptor. The upshot is, for example, that while I haven't a clue as to how much DNA we share with cats or how many vertebrae they've got, you are the very last person I'd trust to give me the facts about it, or about anything else come to think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 05:44 AM

Authoritarian wars in the USA think closing school libraries is the answer to what they call Wokeism. Libraries in Houston are now detention punishment centers.

An authoritarian takeover is an incremental process. People can judge for themselves who the enemy is.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 07:36 AM

I believe in a democratization of knowledge and free thought.
There are those who attack culture, books, and thought.
It's happened before. Previous attempts
We should talk about, hope about and bring about freedom even if it is between 2 or 3 people.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 06:15 PM

It was painful to watch the mental decline of John McCain and now Mitch McConnel and Diane Feinstein. Biden only has remnants of his lifelong battle with stuttering. Early signs of constantly repeating one point can progress to a total freezing of interaction or a confusing cry for help. Abusive ramblings often follow. The victim may not recognize their own failings.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 06:18 PM

So what's with the trend of posting the same post to more than one thread?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 23 - 05:25 AM

Is this thread about science or politics?