BS: KISS keep it simple

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 08:47 AM

Filk, regarding stories and science ideas, in the amazing spiderman the super powers were attributed to m-RNA. Decades later m-rna came to the rescue during the pandemic, Jules Verne also had a good track record.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 03:31 PM

I remember Ethel the Undressed. Mate of Lilo Lil.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 03:35 PM

> Filk,

MaJoC, *please* .... I thought for a moment that you were considering my favourite form of (de)composed folksong.

> regarding stories and science ideas [ ... ] Jules Verne also had a
> good track record

There's a skipload of near-miss predictions (anyone else remember James Blish's "spindizzies"?), and an all-but-unbounded load of outright tosh (most of pulp SF and fantasy); and that's only the lucky few who got published. We remember those who hit the jackpot; don't forget that the people who made money most reliably during gold rushes were the ones selling shovels and wheelbarrows, not their customers.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Mar 23 - 04:26 PM

I remember Ethelrude the Unready.

One hypothesis right out of a hundred ain't bad.
Meatloaf

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:29 PM

Even Einstien got loads of stuff wrong including a paper on why Black Holes don't exist.

I have a decent record on getting big things right looking back over 22 years.
1. Bio war pandemic
2. Iraq war outcome.
3. Black Holes are responsible for the acceleration of space.
There is more but it includes grim stuff like climate and more hopeful breakthroughs in health science.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:51 PM

All those accomplishments and still just as modest as the day is long. I'm surprised Mr. Nobel hasn't come knocking at you door.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 23 - 06:56 PM

More like the guy who gives out the Booker literary prize for fiction, I should think, gillymor.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 03:49 PM

Even Steve was accidentally right about one thing lately. I saw in 2007 Beethoven was a victim of lead poisoning after testing but Steve said no. Only this week was a second test done and liver disease and too much drinking was forensically diagnosed.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 04:06 PM

To prove me wrong one need only look at my posting history. In this thread alone I revealed how I made a correlation that others are now seeing clearly for the first time. Every theory needs to be refined and corrected be it, Newton or Einstein. I doubt I will have much to offer in that process.

As far as dark matter is concerned gravity seems to have a different power to visible matter but I don't know what it neans.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 04:24 PM

Don, I don't know if you've done all the things you claim to have done and I don't care whether or not you have or haven't. It's your humble bragging and Trumpian hubris that I find annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 05:18 PM

I can summarise the last 300+ posts quite simply. Which I believe is what the intention was in the first place.

I did not understand Donuel's posts on a number of topics. I cannot recall which one in particular I asked for simplification on but it no longer matters. I still do not understand him. Donuel did not simplify any of his posts for me. In fact, this thread has made things more complex than ever. It is not Donuel's failure. It is mine. I do not understand him. After 300+ posts on here I don't believe I ever will. Maybe I should have explained what I meant by simplification better.

By simplification I mean putting a complex concept in terms that anyone, including me, can understand. Let me give an example. From Bill Bryson, in this case, explaining how you build a universe

No matter how hard you try you will never be able to grasp just how tiny, how spacially unassuming, is a proton. It is just way too small.

A proton is an infinitessimal part of an atom, which in itself of course is an insubstantial thing. Protons are so small that a little dib of ink, like the dot on this 'i' can hold something in the region of 500,000,000,000 of them, or rather more than the number of seconds it takes to make half a million years. So protons are exceedingly microscopic, to say the very least.

Now imagine if you can (and of course you can't) shrinking one of those protons down to a billionth of its normal size into a space so small that it would make a proton look enormous. Now pack into that tiny, tiny space about an ounce of matter. Excellent. You are ready to start a universe.

Now, whether this is factually correct or not is irrelevent. The point is I understand it and if I can understand it, so can many others.

At that point, unless anyone wants me to address anything specific before I go, I shall duck out. I suggest others do the same to stop the whole thread becoming more of a mire.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 06:00 PM

Compared to the Bohr atom model we changed our thinking of particles to energy packets with quantum features. I am capable of taking the most simple path to understanding and do not even speak the exquisite language of mathematics. I more or less take a geometric approach.

As an athiest I assume we get only one go around so I have reinvented myself 4 or 5 times once I begin to feel a same familiarity or need to escape chaos. My current energy level has been the longest and somewhat laziest period. I think this is common to most people and that a singular focus for a lifetime is the rare example.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 06:36 PM

I'm tempted to do the good cop, bad cop bit, Dave, but I can't be arsed. It's Friday night and the Morrisons negroamaro is going down a treat (legal, unlike magic mushrooms), and we've raised a glass to our much-loved postman (George) who retired today. A man who loved us and his Peroni (we bought him a stash today, natch), with whom we go back many years. He'd do anything for us. Luckily, his younger brother is taking over his round. We'll soon mould him to our ways! The Bude head postmaster (Luke, who just happened to be in the same class as our son at secondary school...) drove George down to our house here in the sticks this afternoon so that we could raise a glass of cava in his honour. Selfies were achieved. Donuel's mission in life is to make things as unsimple as possible in order to impress (his stuff rarely bears close scrutiny, which I've routinely discovered whenever I could be arsed to investigate). Keep posting and keep it simple, even if it's only about your postie!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 08:11 PM

I am more bold and more direct than thou. For example when I was directly asked about the status of UFO I directly answered that they exist. In these last two years this has been affirmed and a few weasels changed their tune. I also directly said that presence has a niche in life for unknown reasons and means undetermined. My inferences and analysis may confuse some people but when it is a topic outside one's experience it is only natural to not understand.

Vivre la difference but not the condemnation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 08:18 PM

I simply explore questions that many people do not entertain.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 09:18 PM

Well I know you'd like to think that you confuse us via your erudition. Unfortunately, you do little more than entertain us with your half-baked pseudoscience. There's a place for that, of course. Please don't stop.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Mar 23 - 10:38 PM

Civil Rights did not harm whites, Gay marriage did not harm hetero marriage and controversial exploration does not harm science, It has nothing to do with your good cop bad cop delusion. Exploration is not a crime unless you are a conquistador.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 02:50 AM

Donuel, just a tiny, tiny quibble from me: when you say that UFOs exist, of COURSE, they exist- you're simply saying that one has not identified that particular flying object.

if you meant anything else, you needed to specify.

I kind of assume that you are in a grandiose phase. Which I understand- the other night I dreamt that I saw Elon Musk giggling like crazy, feeding live worms to a chihuahua. If that doesn't show my grandiosity, I don't know what would.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 04:34 AM

Value your local postie while you still have one. They are an endangered species nowadays, thanks to the company that employs them.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:40 AM

..."controversial exploration does not harm science"

It didn't do Galileo much good. If you're trying to say that bad science is harmless then I'm not with you. Adherence to the scientific process by people of integrity is the only safe way forward.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 08:01 AM

Impuning my integrity and preaching 'there is only one way' is the language of extremists. Discovery is a win win not a good guy bad guy confrontation. Galileo really" Lighten up. I know your pastime is closing threads with your threats or choice of words.
They say you can't talk sense to a drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:08 AM

Complicated by the cold war and misinformation, the Orwellian question of do you 'believe' in UFOs was the norm. Belief implied a religious faith. I never believed in UFO's, I just went with the evidence in hand.
Some said they did not exist and I said they did. Today we are beyond that issue.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:13 AM

You slur, you lose. Have you heard that one before? As I type this it's lunchtime, six hours before I'd even think of digging out the corkscrew, old chap.

Bad science is predicated on partial, dishonest or uncorroborated evidence. For thousands of years the sun went round the earth, eclipses were caused by monsters biting a chunk out of the sun, and Isaac Newton, in his time, practised alchemy. The good-evidence test failed all who adhered to these notions. No-one, on the other hand, has said that it's wrong to chase up a new hypothesis or quietly connect your findings to come up with a new notion. On that foundation is good science built. Another foundation stone of good science is the ability to communicate ideas simply and clearly to others. So far, you've told us what YOU think about black holes and the state of the universe, etc. What you have not told is where your evidence is. Forgive us for concluding that you've scarcely penetrated beyond the bounds of a fertile imagination at best and fantasy at worst. And don't get me started on that communicating thang...

Off to Morrisons now. I need eggs and spuds to fill the black hole in my larder. I suppose you recommend that I take a breath test before getting in my car.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:34 AM

I will go one step further than Arthur C Clark and say there is the technology that not merely seems like magic but there is the existence of a means so that there is no confinement or safe that would disallow entry. For the human species this would be anathema given our criminal proclivities.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 09:45 AM

Well that was clear as mud. It's Clarke, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:00 AM

The radical turn about regarding SMBH action upon space itself is a big deal but has its problems that will need refinement. That being said arriving tangentially at this conclusion can be done with correlation (my method involved the comparable increase in BH formation and universal expansion over 14 billion years) or by mathematical measurement of BH themselves as done by the Univerity of Hawaii.

Denials are an easy lie Steve employs constantly without evidence and are a troll's second most popular behavior. Ad Hominum attacks are #1.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:20 AM

So saying that you can't talk sense to a drunk (meaning me, a never-drunk!) isn't an ad hominem? I think you need a better dictionary, fella!

It's a bit like asking people who proclaim God's existence for evidence. That's not denial - that's asking for evidence. Let my speech be yea yea, nay nay... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:22 AM

Visionaries come and go.
There are things that you don't know.
When you see outside yourself,
the many things upon your shelf
Turn out to be something else,

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 10:25 AM

Also Sprach Donuel Rumsfeld... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 11:41 AM

Senator Harry Reid was a courageous investigator in UFOs although his demeanor was milk toast. Louise was a brave journalist who died of Covid and Allan Hynek died of the same kind of brain cancer as Bob Marley. I honor their contribution and are part of my motivation to carry on their discoveries. They were selfless and approachable. There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses.

We all have different motivations.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 12:17 PM

Savvy folks will understand what makes the most successful CEOS.
They know in the game of musical chairs where the available seats are and can anticipate when the music is about to stop. Some might call that ability as being prescient, no matter how they do it, That small advantage of getting ahead of the problem is invaluable.

Some got it and some don't. You Steve definitely don't have it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 12:22 PM

Well I don't possess precognition, same as everyone else, but I can certainly predict when you're going to say something daft. I never quite know what it'll be, but there's much fun to be had in the anticipation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:25 PM

"There is also a debt of gratitude to the many millions of global eye witnesses."

Millions? Where have you plucked that figure from?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:30 PM

Oh God, don't ask...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 01:41 PM

It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Rain Dog
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 02:13 PM

So you made the figure up.

"It is an international phenomenon for over a thousand years."

Well this is not quite what it seems. UAPs have been seen for a large number of years. Of course what might be an UAP to one viewer, could well be the planet Venus to another and identified as such. UAP no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 03:29 PM

"UAP"? Don't you bloody start as well. I had to look that up. It's bad enough with him and his obfuscations!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 03:58 PM

Old news and ignorance are boring.
Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed. It can proceed underwater without being slowed.
These are clues as to what forces it is avoiding or overcoming.I can list more clues if seeking understanding is the point.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 04:19 PM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/

more obfuscation for Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:23 PM

Your 03.58 post is unconnected and meaningless. As for your last post, I never click on unsupported links. I did that once with one of yours and bitterly regretted it.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 05:41 PM

As one can see it is supported by the US government.

Other clues include no sonic boom, when very close one can feel a very low-frequency hum, the required power can be deduced by the rate of acceleration even if its mass is not precisely known.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Mar 23 - 07:44 PM

Supported by the US government, eh? Which government departments, pray tell? Does Joe Biden know about this?   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 12:55 AM

Donuel: "Going between Mach 5 and MACH 20 IT CAN TURN so rapidly that organic life would be crushed."

I often wonder whether any 'beings' inside these crafts may be programmed robots.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 08:46 AM

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7514271/


The National Institutes of Health in cooperation with PCM (our foremost biomedical and scientific research lab) There is no better blue ribbon scientific research institute in the US.

I am not allowed to link to classified information from Bigalow Industries. Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:02 AM

The budget for the NIH is over 51 billion dollars.
I do not know Steve's budget.

Robots in the sky? There could be AI entities. But there also could be an inertia-free field generated around the physical craft, or even a time distortion factor we do not realize.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:20 AM

"Steve is a better blue-ribbon liar than Martin Gibson."

I must say, you have a bloody nerve accusing me of ad hominems when you come out with vile trash like this.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:42 AM

Sometimes I respond to a lie but we call it giving better than we get. You only embarrass yourself with your harassment, bile and invectives. While having a useful idiot to compare and contrast my truthfulness is sometimes handy, your constant automaton behavior is getting old, and I daresay senile. You have no scientific contribution of your own which is not uncommon for a true scientist. The cliche' about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 09:55 AM

The luminosity of UAPs is also a clue. It is obviously not LED or Halogen light. In some cases, it seems like ionized air and in other cases, it looks like intense laser radiation.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 11:16 AM

I have never seen an octagonal object at 20,000 ft.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/ufo-object-balloon-shot-down.html
I wonder what the other 2 looked like.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Mar 23 - 12:13 PM

What an utter disgrace you are, you nasty little man. Only an idiot thinks he can get away with crude insults by quickly talking past them. Find yourself a hole to crawl into.