BS: KISS keep it simple

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 08:53 PM

I followed the "miraculous chemistry that turned into life" in an essay that I wrote fifty years ago at Imperial College. I still have that essay. I got an A for it. Had I referred to "miraculous chemistry" in that essay I'm guessing that a C+ might have been mine.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 07:36 PM

Studying the origin of life is rather ambitious.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 07:26 PM

I was focused on barriers to research and by extension - discoveries.

If you would like to focus on a science that can only be studied here on Earth it would be your fav. Biology.
I found a scientist that was experimenting on life that was 3.8 billion years old. What she learned is fascinating and far from simple.
In fact even you may find it challenging to follow the miraculous chemistry that turned into life.
interview regarding ancient DNA secrets

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 05:51 PM

Focus.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 23 - 01:57 PM

The biggest restraint on discoveries is that research is only where the money is. There is a lot of Cancer research because that is where the money is.
I am only tangentially associated with research grants. While great leeway
is offered there are few grants for pure research. The discoveries made along the way come from data that doesn't fit and is unexpected. Other times scientists
have to reverse engineer into the future to get to a needed result that did not exist before almost like star trek sci-fi. The mysteries are fun to me so I can fill them with my dreams.
The scientist is bound to the data alone and has to restrain themselves from conclusions. Another barrier to discovery besides money is a compartmentalization
that keeps more remarkable findings away from the public and scientific sectors.
There are other political barriers to research. A government shutdown can wipe out a 10 year project by interrupting a process in health and life sciences.
What a waste. Agreeing on language and definitions are also barriers. There are 40 or 50 definitions of life. Intelligence has many more definitions
There are sociological barriers regarding shaming a scientist for going in a atypical direction. THOSE that ignore that social shaming by exploring beyond the
status quo do well and often lead to new companies offering new services, processes, and materials. The social shamers are practically a cult.
REMOVING these barriers is not likely but I do imagine what may have advanced without such barriers. Like a dream of a technocrat, this imagined utopia has
no limits.
I have no contact with astronomical or physics research but I have become aware of the greatest successes and failures. One failure was the Antarctic
observatory for exploring the early inflation of the universe. They don't talk about that one but we all know about The Webb and the LHC.
.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 01:51 PM

I have had a question about entropy and our universe and whether it gets reset with a new big bang expression of our universe.

We know things tend to "go down hill" or become more chaotic toward a lower energy state so that there may come a day of the big rip and disassembly of neutrons and protons. Could this lower energy state still end up capable of a repeat big bang since energy can not be created or destroyed?

It is guaranteed we will never know. It is not often I submit something will not happen but evolution of our species will probably not extend into such a far-reaching near infinity.

The universe is stranger than we know or even that we can ever know

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 01:00 PM

Such is the irreconcilable differences between the past fact-based mind and the ironic mind, the linear mind and the dimensional mind. We know a bird flies best with two wings than one.

Socrates did not leave any writing but lets pretend he did exist.
He supposedly said an educated mind knows how little it knows.
Today the human species knows less and less about more and more of the universe. Quantum mechanics can measure more of the tiny but we don't know why it does, We have tools to change DNA yet we don't know where we can reliably cut and paste to cure disease however using half of it (RNA) we have made some great new vaccines, cosmology is in a quandary about galaxy formation black holes and inflation etc. We are doing better than superstition mysticism and the supernatural but there is even more we don't know with our new scientific discoveries. I expect that the questions about nothingness will reveal many mysteries such as zero point energy and other concepts yet unknown or misunderstood.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 11:45 AM

Yes I do, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 11:15 AM

Mr. Hitchins was always the contrarian with elegance and humor.
Steve is always the contrarian.
Still it is good to know he at least knows what I talk about at times.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 09:04 AM

"it is accelerating"

No it isn't, Mr cosmologist. Its expansion is accelerating.

Subject: RE: BS: keep it honest
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 09:00 AM

In the past, I have been grateful for some of the people and things that Steve introduced to me. Christopher Hitchins comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 08:30 AM

As you know the universe is not just expanding it is accelerating which means there is a whole lot of nothing in its future just like the lifespan of an organism.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 23 - 07:05 AM

You poor dear you are so victimized in your own delusions.

Since we are made of and by the universe, it is only natural to see the similarities of life to some universal truths.
"We are made of star stuff"

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 04:51 PM

More nonsensical verbiage from you is a blatant attempt to distract from the fact that you TROLLED me earlier today. Well that doesn't work for me, I'm afraid. You are an absolute disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 12:32 PM

Just a response to your (contribution)

Now back to cosmology:
The very small does reflect the random potential
and luck in life but little else. The universe at large has many more similarities to life and anthropomorphic comparisons.
Earth rotates once every 24 hours lately, It used to be faster.
Venus rotates so slowly its day is slower than its year.
Life on Earth has adjusted itself to the 24 hour schedule and even to its slower seasons. The Universe resembles the concepts of time we do on a very strange way. The early embryonic universe saw no light like we do then the age of light began. In a very long time, the starlight will fade to darkness leaving only black holes. It is one very long day in the light but darkness will return when the stars run out out of fuel and black holes eat most of the remnants. What comes after that may be a quantum event that begins a new big bang but we don't really know. Somewhere there is the oldest black hole and we don't yet know what or how it formed, but its there. It is like finding our first grey hair a sign of our impending death. Other anthropomorphic comparisons can be made even between gravity and new creation. Eary man has been making these comparisons for a long time. Many religious texts explore these.
Today we are asking the web telescope to answer more of our questions.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 23 - 06:14 AM

That is a rock-solid troll post by any definition of "troll" you'd care to adopt.

Subject: RE: BS: keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 10:38 PM

I'm here for fun. Steve is here for adulation but can't get no satisfaction andhe tries andhe tries...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 23 - 11:04 AM

"Look children, see the pretty red tide on our shores"?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 05:41 PM

True, you can blow things up or grow food or both. Even C-4 is nitrogen derived. Germany made a rainbow of new colors out of hydrocarbons in coal but they also invented Mustard gas.
Survivors in London owe their pensions to Werner Von Braun for his advances in rocketry. They even helped educate Einstien but chased him out of Germany but that's not a simple story.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM

Well it was hardly a saintly achievement, was it? Ammonia thus manufactured was used to make explosives in WW1, and its use in agriculture, to which you allude, has caused soil degradation and pollution on a huge scale of land, rivers, lakes and oceans. Oxides of nitrogen are serious atmospheric pollutants which are in part attributable to ammonia production. You could claim that it increased world food production but you can't claim that it improved food quality. Quite the opposite, and its environmental impact was and is devastating. So there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 23 - 12:46 PM

Simply put two Germans Haber and Bosch, in 1910 made it possible to expand the population from 1.6 billion to what it is today. They found a way to break triple-bonded N2 gas into a form (ammonia) that plants could use. If not for their innovation you might not be here today due to starvation. But that is totally uncertain.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 06:12 AM

Well this is how you started to "simplify" things for us:

"You almost have to suspend belief in some things like gravity since there is no observational evidence for the graviton. Waves yes, but no trace of quanta packets of energy. Also, questions like why, can often not be answered. Problems that can't be solved require a new approach.
So here goes...Basically, there are two buckets of stuff, one has matter and the other bucket has force carriers. There are six kinds of electrons and sixteen kinds of quarks. The other buck has particles we call force carriers which are phons of the electrodynamic force. Gravitons are thought to be the force carrier of gravity, The strong nuclear force has carriers called gluons which I think have eight gluons and the weak nuclear force has three carriers. That's four fundamental forces. Yep we are looking for a fifth but it is inconclusive so far."

I'm afraid that this attempt to "simplify" things would have had your lecture theatre emptied within minutes as your students headed out to find some headache pills. Migraine in the case of the highlighted sentence.

So don't blame us!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 23 - 05:55 AM

I started this to simplify particle physics and cosmology but the intellectuals from the UK reduced the topic to assholes

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 01:04 PM

My favourite curse is "May the hole in your arse heal up"

Arabic I believe

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:52 PM

Wanna make a big thing of that?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 23 - 12:30 PM

The broadcaster and food critic does not sound like our Nigel who said he was in the health field and does not present as gay.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 04:55 PM

Nigel Slater produces lovely recipes and I have several of his books.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 02:29 PM

The next symptom can be recipe mistakes but from what I see here you should seriously get checked out like Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:53 PM

Repeating yourself is the first symptom.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:40 PM

"Please, Dog, make it stop…"

Do you mean "Please! Doggerel! Make it stop!"

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:34 PM

You thought this was an argument, no its abuse.
Know what cheers me up and not feel this is all about abuse?
A sing-along...Everybody out there at work or home Lets sing along;
Why are there so many songs about mem'ries
and whats on the other side
mem'ries are visions but only illusions
and mem'ries have nothing to hide
so we've been told and some choose to believe it,
I know their wrong wait and see
someday you'll find it the mem'rie connection
the lovers the screamers and me.
all of us under its spells
we know that its probably tragic

Have you been half asleep?
and have you heard voices
You've heard them calling your name
Is this the sweet sound ?
that calls the old seniors
the voice might be one and the same
I've heard it too many times to ignore it
Its something that might come to be
someday day you'll find it
the right diagnosis
End stage Alzhiemers to be
la da da dee dum dum da lalee lee la loo.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 01:12 PM

Hey, Dave, a thousand Asian curses on anyone who wishes harm on other people!


Er...

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 12:01 PM

The abuse has progressed to wishing harm on people. My my, what petulance!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:53 AM

May your next cruise have a plumbing breakdown and a Noro virus outbreak.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:49 AM

Only if you're a fun guy, so it would work for us, er, "usual suspects" but not for....


Oh, never mind... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:29 AM

Does it work with a box of magic mushrooms?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:24 AM

Here's a simple hint and tip:

Buy a large box of Maltesers. Forget you bought them for a year. Make sure they're three months out of date before opening. Result: a box full of chewy ones. Nirvana!

(This has happened to us in the last fifteen minutes...)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:21 AM

That you would think I am handicapped and seek to make fun of it shows the kind of low-life yahoos you are. I don't think being a dog hater and a magic fanatic are handicaps, but they are eye-rolling.
I hold the members of this social media forum with high respect except the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM

A-a-and…100!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 11:07 AM

Please, Dog, make it stop…

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 10:56 AM

I went into Therapeutic hypnosis for the mysteries, not the mysticism.
Little did I know it would lead to big bucks recruitment but ethics made me say no.
Careful with the defamation or I'll sue you for 100,000 dollhairs.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 10:19 AM

And we don't want to make him poorly, do we? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:59 AM

Well Steve, as you seem to be a Holocaust denying, white supremacist troll with no sense of humour I suppose I should ignore you but, for some reason, I don't seem to pick up on that. What I do see is Donuel who, when faced with a point he cannot sensibly respond to starts to spout mystical nonsense, claiming it is either Dyslexia or his "special" way of seeing the world. When that is shown up for the complete bollocks it is, the personal attacks start.

For the third time in as many days, I can only suggest that we ignore the tantrums. They will either stop or he will get stopped eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:30 AM

I expect more convoluted nonsense. Anyway, enough for now. I have soup going cold.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 09:11 AM

And you bit nastily didn't you.
Don't expect silence
to your nonsense
in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:52 AM

By the way, you quoted the Einstein in two separate posts. The first time, you failed to attribute it, presumably hoping we'd think it was your wisdom. My response to that was dismissive of your general demeanour down the weeks, months and years, not of the substantive, which, as I indicated later, I largely concur with. Instead of calling me names, perhaps you should try to be a little more straightforward?

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:37 AM

A simple question
What kind of troll are you?
Who's against everything
It seems I'm not the only one
Who objects to your swill
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of clown is he?
What does he know of life?
Why can't he cast away?
His mask of clay
And live his life
Why can't he stay away?
Like any normal guy
And maybe then I'll know
What kind of fool he is
What kind of mind is this?
An empty shell
A lonely cell in which
A hateful heart must dwell
What kind of lies are his?
That lied with every post
That whispered depraved words of hate
And lied the most
Why can't he contribute?
Like any other guy
And maybe then I'll know
Why do narcissists just lie.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 08:20 AM

If you say so. You have a simple solution in the interests of regaining your cool: stop the attacks and just talk sense instead. Brave new world!

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 06:57 AM

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science..."

Well I regard your alleged mysteriousness as pure bullshit, but that's just me. Keep digging. Steve Quote

OR

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here.Steve quote.

Did you lie the first time or the second time or both?

When I do not respond to your baseless claims you become more trollish.
I will no longer tolerate your senseless trollism without showing how aggressively you attack every single statement you think I make.
You are still obstructing the basic tenants of cosmology with remarks that are not contributing. It is my opinion everyone should have some means of knowing where and why they are here. You can stop being against it. Or can you?
Simply put it is you who are adrift.

Subject: RE: BS: KISS keep it simple
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jan 23 - 04:25 AM

Steve:

"The world and the nature it holds, and the universe beyond, are wonderful enough, amazing in their beauty and diversity, with lots still to explain via scientific endeavour. There's so much to engender curiosity, wonder, awe, delight and edification there.... The real beauty of the world, including not only nature but also the human endeavours of music, art and literature, is contained in the enquiry those things generate in us."

Albert:

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

I think that Albert and I are agreeing here. If anyone sees a hidden conflict between our philosophies, do apprise me. By the way, the whole essence of science is to endeavour to solve the mysterious (of course, there are practical aspects too...). The starting point is contained in the humility that we don't yet understand enough to provide the answers, that gods of gaps don't cut it, and the delicious thing is that some answers may never be found. The process has be the scientific method and we have to eschew the temptations of the mystical and the religious and anything else that attempts to sidetrack that. In no way does that marginalise human imagination, without which there wouldn't be the enthusiasm to keep looking. Just beware of the holy men, the mystics, the precognistas and the snake oil salesmen en route...