Origins: What is this coal mining song?

Subject: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,Brian_M
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 12:32 PM

I was watching the documentary "The Coal War" from BBC Panorama on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m3Cvw5Ybmg

At 4:40 and 5:30, snippets of a song are heard. The lyrics are as follows:

""I'm going down, although I am a Durham lad brought up in busty coal.

I'm going down 'cause here the seams are all worked out and I don't want the dole.

I'm going down to Nottingham good prospects are my goal.

I'm going down although it grieves me sore to leave the town and folk I know.

I'm going down because I am a miner born, I'll stay a miner still."

Comments on the video suggest that it is Ewan McColl singing, but I've not been able to get a title. It's a beautiful song, and I'd love to be able to hear the full version if such a thing exists, but maybe it was something that the singer just improv'd or something, as the lyrics sound like they're contemporary to the events shown in the documentary. But if anyone has any info, it would be most appreciated.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 12:52 PM

it is Ewan, alright. i will contact jim carroll to see if he knows

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 02:19 PM

Very likely from The Radio Ballads series, 'The Big Hewer' available on CD. I have some of the Radio Ballads but not this one. As Dick says Jim will know and you can get him yourself on Facebook.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Reinhard
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 02:56 PM

I thought so at first too, Steve, but I can't find these words in the Big Hewer transcript.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,Brian_M
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 03:12 PM

Also had a quick scan through that album and couldn't find the song in question. Each of the Radio Ballads volumes are on the Internet Archive, in case that's not already known.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:30 PM

Reinhard, I don't have your email address. Can you PM me it please.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:32 PM

I'll have a quick check in Lloyd.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:44 PM

Not in 'Come all ye bold miners'. Probably too recent. Are you sure it's Ewan singing? Gez Lowe wrote quite a few good mining songs.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:09 AM

Certainly sounds like Ewan singing and a long time ago ~ so unlikely to be Jez Lowe ~ very likely written by Ewan

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:11 AM

Not in MacColl's 'Shuttle and Cage' either.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:15 AM

Not in his 'Personal Choice' which is mostly Sc Trad.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 10:17 AM

Not in the MacColl & Seeger Songbook either.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 03:47 PM

I'm guessing it was recorded some time around the late 50s, given the circumstances that are being sung about.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 23 - 07:16 AM

If it was on 'Panorama' they would have had to obtain clearance, so they will know (unless the BBC have wiped the tapes:)).

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 04:16 AM

contact Peggy Seeger

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,Brian_M
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 03:34 PM

I've contacted Ewan McColl's website. Maybe they'll have further information on the song.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 04:43 PM

GOOD IDEA

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 04:38 PM

A new thread opened on same topic:

Origins: Request for information re: miner's song

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Robert B. Waltz
Date: 19 Sep 23 - 08:12 PM

I no more know what this song is than anyone else here, but I have a suggestion for where to look if someone can find the book: The Thomas Armstrong songbook ("25 Popular Songs"). Armstrong (1848-1920) was a labour poet with a strong interest in mining, author e.g. of "The Durham Strike." He was a miner who was born in Durham. There is a short biography here: http://www.pitmanpoet.org.uk/TommyArmstrong/TommyArmstrong.htm.

That's not a guarantee, but he seems a reasonable candidate for the author.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Sep 23 - 07:33 AM

I used to have Tommy's book and indeed sang some of the songs. Unfortunately I lent it out long ago and never got it back. From what I can remember most of Tommy's songs concerned the social side of the miners. There is also an album to look out for which I think is simply titled 'Tommy Armstrong of Tyneside' and features The High-Level Ranters.

Use of the word 'busty' might be relevant here as I'm sure Tommy used the word in his songs 'gannin doon the Busty pit'.

Surely there must be some Durham lads on here can give us chapter & voss.

Another writer more recently on the Durham pits is Gez Lowe.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 23 - 01:17 PM

Morrison Busty was a colliery in NW Durham- the Busty seam was a very prolific coal seam which ran through the Durham strata & was a major coal source for many of the local collieries

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 20 Sep 23 - 01:33 PM

It could be worth checking out the songs of Jock Purdom as he had written about North East miners having to move to Nottingham in Farewell to the Cotia. This was set in the early to mid sixties long after Tommy Armstrong.
Also try some of Johnny Handle's lesser known songs if they are available.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Sep 23 - 03:05 PM

I think all of Johnny's pitman songs are about the North Tyne pits. Benny Graham would be a good source too.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,Brian_M
Date: 20 Sep 23 - 04:53 PM

As mentioned, I've written to Ewan McColl's website, and I've been told that the song has been passed to Ewan's son, Callum, for an ID. Hopefully will hear back in the coming days.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 21 Sep 23 - 01:29 AM

Jez Lowe is the correct spelling of his name.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 21 Sep 23 - 02:00 AM

how about contacting Johnny Handle

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,Brian_M
Date: 21 Sep 23 - 05:24 PM

I have also contacted BBC Panorama.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 12:12 PM

We’ve got Jez Lowe coming to our folk club as guest next Tuesday: will try to remember to ask him if he can shed any light on it.

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 12:44 PM

Mick Jones? composer of all along the Rossendale

Subject: RE: Origins: What is this coal mining song?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 24 Sep 23 - 04:54 AM

Just to point out that the wording in "All along the Rossendale" really annoys the residents of Rossendale. There is no valley called "Rossendale". The area is Rossendale which is composed of 5 valleys. "All throughout all Rossendale" would be acceptable.

Perhaps I'll start a thread on mislabled geography in folksong.

Robin