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Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)

Barry Finn 23 Apr 07 - 05:29 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 23 Apr 07 - 05:42 PM
Peace 23 Apr 07 - 05:43 PM
Peace 23 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM
Fred McCormick 24 Apr 07 - 03:46 AM
Surreysinger 24 Apr 07 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Surreysinger (at work) 24 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM
GUEST 24 Apr 07 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Surreysinger 24 Apr 07 - 01:18 PM
Barry Finn 26 Apr 07 - 10:52 PM
leeneia 26 Apr 07 - 11:39 PM
maple_leaf_boy 06 Aug 10 - 09:03 PM
RTim 06 Aug 10 - 10:16 PM
maple_leaf_boy 07 Aug 10 - 08:01 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Aug 10 - 02:02 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM
MuddleC 16 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM
Reinhard 16 Aug 10 - 04:11 PM
Matthew Edwards 29 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM
Matthew Edwards 29 Nov 12 - 05:02 PM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Nov 12 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,leeneia 30 Nov 12 - 12:48 PM
GUEST 30 Nov 12 - 01:00 PM
Matthew Edwards 05 Dec 12 - 03:19 PM
GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie 05 Dec 12 - 05:41 PM
Brian Peters 06 Dec 12 - 08:18 AM
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Subject: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:29 PM

I used to sing this many years ago & now can't seem to remember if I've got all the words & if I've got them right. Surprisingly I couldn't find it in the DT of in any threads. This is what I can remember.

Here's me sheepcook & me blackdog, I give 'em to you
Here's me bag & me budgie I bid 'em all adieu
Here's me blackdog & me sheepchook I leave 'em all behind
Fine Flora, fine Flora, you proved so unkind

Unto my dear Diana these words I did say
Tomorrow we'll be married love, tomorrow is the day
Oh no my dear Willie, my age is to young
One day till our wedding love is one day to soon

I'll go into service if the day ain't to late
To wait on a fine lady it is my intent
An' when into service a year or two more
It's then we'll be married love an' we'll settle down

A little while later a letter did say
That my dear Diana had changed her mind
She said that she'd lead such a contrary life
She said that she could never be a young sheperd's wife

Repeat the first verse

I'm now longer sure if I've got the right words or not and what is a "budgie"

I have a much longer version from Lucy Broadword & J Fuller Maitland's "English Country Songs" (1893) but it's not the same & it doesn't seem to sing the same either.

Anyone have any background on this too?

Thanks Barry


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:42 PM

Your version appears to be very similar to that recorded by Ewan MacColl on his LP, 'The Manchester Angel' (Topic 12T147, 1966) - which, incidentally, is my favourite Folk record of all time! And 'Sheepcrook and Black Dog' is my favourite track - it doesn't really get any better than that (in my opinion, that is).

It's also available on a later CD - 'The Real MacColl' (Topic TSCD 463,1993).

MacColl's version was based on that that he and Peggy Seeger recorded from the Dorset Gypsy woman, Caroline Hughes, in the early 1960s.

And it's not 'budgie' but 'budget'! This was probably some sort of bag which held the shepherd's lunch.


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:43 PM

Steeleye Span's lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM

Sheep Crook and Black Dog--another version.^^


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Subject: Lyr. Add: My Flora and I
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

There are several forms to this song. The following from Sam Henry:

Lyr. Add: MY FLORA AND I

O, who is so happy, so happy as I,
As I and my Flora, my Flora and I?
I'll go down to my Flora and unto her say,
When will we get married, love, when is the day?

Out comes the fair one, saying, "The day is not come.
Besides, noble shepherd, to wed I'm too young;
I'll go first to service and then I'll return,
And then we'll get married if love carries on."

According to promise, to service she went,
For to wait on this lady it was my intent,
For to wait on this fair one, this fair lady gay,
I call her my Flora and she calls me her ray.

In a month or two after, a letter I sent,
Two or three times for to show her intent,
She sent back an answer; she lived a happy life,
And she'd never intend to be a poor shepherd's wife.

Ye gates and gate stiles, now I bid you adieu,
My bottle and script I bestow unto you,
My hook, crook and whistle to you I'll resign,
Since this inconstant fair one has now changed her mind.

For when I was young I was as red as a rose,
But now I'm as pale as the lily that grows,
Like the green leaves in winter I'm withered and gone;
Do you see what I'm come to by the loving too young?

With score, p. 390. "Sam Henry's Songs of the People," University of Georgia Press. Coll. Maud Houston (Coleraine), (w, m) James Kennedy (formerly Ratheane), learned from an old man in a quarry. Key G.

Other names: The Inconstant Lover, (My) Flora and Me, Sheepcrook and Black Dog, The Unkind Shepherdess, (Young) Florio, The Young Shepherd.


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:46 AM

It's a fairly common song, turning up mainly in England, N Ireland and Canada. The version in question was collected by Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger about 1963 from Caroline Hughes of Dorset.

For other versions consult Steve Roud's Folk Song sand Broadside Indexes at http://library.efdss.org/cgi-bin/textpage.cgi?file=aboutRoud&access=off .


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Surreysinger
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:39 AM

Barry: you said " I have a much longer version from Lucy Broadword & J Fuller Maitland's "English Country Songs" (1893)"

It's actually Lucy BroadWOOD.

" but it's not the same & it doesn't seem to sing the same either."

Hardly surprising since its a completely different tune; the root of the song in both cases is, I think, "The Unfaithful Sheperdess", a broadside ballad (although I am sure that Malcolm will be along to correct or expand if necessary - grins-). It seems to have been very popular in Surrey and Sussex. Henry Burstow records the Unfaithful Sheperdess as being among the 400+ songs that he could sing from memory. Lucy collected her version from Mr Grantham, a retired illiterate carter living in Holmwood, near Dorking, who had been born in Sussex. The words and tune are very similar to those collected by Vaughan Williams about ten years later a few miles away, also in Surrey, and they are also extremely similar to a version which is sung today by Bob Lewis.

The more well known version (presumably the one you quote) is of the tune and words sung by Steeleye Span, and also by Norma Waterson, who has recorded the version from Queen Caroline Hughes (with some slight amendments)


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: GUEST,Surreysinger (at work)
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:16 PM


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:17 PM

Oops - don't hit return if you haven't written anything!! (Think it's about time I left for home!)Meant to say ... memo to self to actually read previous post properly - Fred had, of course, mentioned Caroline Hughes' version!


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: GUEST,Surreysinger
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:18 PM

That's it - it's not my afternoon, is it? That last one was me... going home NOW!!!


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 10:52 PM

Thanks all, I guess my memory's not that bad after all. I did have MacColl & Seeger's "Travellers' Songs From England & Scotland" And Sam Henry's "Songs of the People" but didn't think to check either of those as sources, DUH!. Thanks for leading me back to those. I ended up singing it Tuesday night at the Gloucester (Mass, US) session knowing that I did already have it.

Thanks to everybody
Barry


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Subject: RE: Sheepcrook & Black Dog
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:39 PM

Shimrod is right about "budget."

According to my dictionary, the oldest use is "a pouch or wallet, usually of leather."

It goes all the way back to the Latin "bulga," but the Latin speakers had borrowed "bulga" from a Gaulish word. An ancient word, indeed.

I like the song. Thanks for posting.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 09:03 PM

The source that I have says that it originated in northern Derry.
It's in "A Shepherd's Songbook." A song collection, I have been
studying lately.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: RTim
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 10:16 PM

I am amazed that I share this song with the late Barry Finn - not a song I would think he would sing.
I have stopped singing this as I use the same (or similar) tune for another song - Beautiful Nancy.
Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 08:01 PM

Is there sheet music for this song? I've looked on several sites with
the alternate titles. I only found guitar chords for the Steeleye Span
version. The songbook I mentioned only has the lyrics.


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHEEP-CROOK AND BLACK DOG (Steeleye Span)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:02 PM

The lyrics at the beginning of this thread are full of misspellings and mondegreens.

Copied from Reinhard Zierke's web site:


SHEEP-CROOK AND BLACK DOG
As sung by Steeleye Span

CHORUS: Here's my sheep-crook and my black dog. I give it to you.
Here's my bag and my budget. I bid it adieu.
Here's my sheep-crook and my black dog. I leave them behind.
Fine laurel, fine floral, you've proved all unkind.

1. All to my dear Dinah these words I did say,
"Tomorrow we'll be married love, tomorrow is the days."
"'Tis too soon dear Willy my age is too young,
One day to our wedding is one day too soon."

2. "I'll go into service if the day ain't too late,
Oh, to wait on a fine lady it is my intent,
And when into service a year or two bound,
It's then we'll get married and both settle down."

3. A little time after a letter was wrote,
For to see if my dear Dinah had changed her mind.
But she wrote that she'd lived such a contrary life,
She said that she'd never be a young shepherd's wife. (CHORUS)


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHEEP-CROOK AND BLACK DOG (Norma Waterson
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:08 PM

Another version, copied from the same web site:


SHEEP-CROOK AND BLACK DOG
As sung by Norma Waterson

I'll lay o'er the green branches although I am young.
How dearly I loved my love! How sweetly she sang!
Was there ever a young man in such a sorry state
As me with my Flora, my laurel of late?

All to my dear Flora these words I did say:
"Tomorrow we'll be married, love. Tomorrow is our day."
"Oh no, dearest William! My age it is too young.
One day to our wedding is one day too soon.

"For I'll go into service if the day ain't too late.
I'll be apprenticed to a fine lady, it is my intent;
And when into service for a year or two bound,
It's then we'll get married, love, and I'll settle down."

But a little while after a letter was wrote,
All a-saying that Flora had changed her mind;
And she said that she lived such a contrary life,
She'd never be, she couldn't ever be, a young shepherd's wife.

Here's me black dog. Here's me sheep crook. I will give unto you.
Here's me bag and me budget. I will bid 'em all adieu.
Here's me black dog and me sheep crook. I will leave 'em all behind,
Since Flora, my laurel, you've proved so unkind.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: MuddleC
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 02:13 PM

I sing the 'fine Flora' version, but the first and last chorus are on a totally different melody line than the narrative.... I like the idea of leaving her his budgie,... cracked me up ..'who's a pretty boy then?'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: Reinhard
Date: 16 Aug 10 - 04:11 PM

maple_leaf_boy, if you give me your mail address I'll send you four scanned pages of sheet music from the Steeleye Span Songbook. You can find my address in the bottom line of the webpage that Jim Dixon just mentioned.


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Subject: Lyr Add: The Unkind Shepherdess
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM

The Roud Broadside Index indicates that versions of 'The Unkind Shepherdess' were printed in London by Pitts and by Catnach, and in Birmingham by Jackson, and by Whiting. The Index also cites a version printed by Swindells of Manchester, beginning "As I was a-walking one morning in Spring", amd another apparently by Kendrew of York with the first line "It was near a fountain where I sat alone"

A copy of one the broadsides printed by Pitts can be seen on the Bodleian Ballads website The Unkind Shepherdess, and there is another copy at the National Library of Scotland (NLS) which can be viewed online.

Here is the text copied from the NLS:-

The Unkind Shepherdess

I'LL spread these green branches all over her young,
So well I do like my Flora so sweetly she sung,
Was there ever a young man in so happy a state,
As I with my Flora, my Flora so great.

I'll go to my Flora and to her I'll say,
We both will be married it wants but a day,
One day says the farmer, and when that is come,
For to marry so early my age is too young.

We'll first go to service and when we return,
We both will be married all in the next town,
Will you go to service and leave me here to cry,
O yes lovely shepherd, I will tell you for why.

It happened so that to service she went,
To wait on a lady it was her intent,
Young Flora she met with a rich lady gay,
Who clothed young Flora in costly array.

Near a twelvemonth after a letter was sent,
It was three or four lines to know her intent,
She wrote that she lived such a contented life,
That she never did intend to become a young shepherd's wife.

These words and expressions did pierce like a dart,
I'll pluck up my spirits and cheer up my heart,
In hopes that she never will write so any more,
But her answer has convinced me as many times before.

My ewes and my lambs I will bid them adieu,
My bagpipes and budget I will leave here with you,
My shepherd's crook and black dog I will leave here behind,
Since Flora dear Flora, has changed her mind.

Printed by J Pitts (London), active c.1819-1844


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Subject: Lyr Add: My Flora and Me
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 05:02 PM

Several versions of this song were collected in Newfoundland in the 20th century by Maud Karpeles and Kenneth Peacock.
Here is one collected by Peacock, and published in his book 'Songs of the Newfoundland Outports' (1965), and online in the GEST archive.


My Flora and Me

As sung by Arthur Nicolle, Rocky Harbour, Newfoundland, August 1958

As I roved out oh one evening in spring,
To hear those birds whistle and the nightingales sing,
Where the green fields and branches all covered with young,
And the small birds around me so joyful they sung.

Was there ever a young man so happy as me,
So happy as Flora, my Flora and me?
I will go to my Flora and this I will say:
"When shall we get married? - pray mention the day."

"To wed, gentle shepherd, my time is not come,
To wed, gentle shepherd, my age is too young,
I will first go to service till I'm twenty-one,
And then we'll get married if love follows on."

To fulfill her promise to service she went,
To wait on a lady it was her intent,
To wait on a lady, a rich lady gay,
Young Flora was clothed in most costly array.

The twelve-month being over, being over and spent,
I wrote her a letter to hear her intent.
The answer that she sent to me: 'Lead a long single life,
For I never intend to be a poor shepherd's wife.'

In reading those few lines it grieved my heart sore
To think that my Flora could love me no more,
To think that my Flora could be so unkind,
Like a false-hearted lovyer she soon changed her mind.

I wished I never knowed her, or she to know me,
I wish I never loved her, or she to love me,
My heart it's ensnared by her snowy-white breast,
And I'm deeply wounded, and I can't take no rest.

Oh once I was happy as a bud on a rose,
And now I'm so pale as the lily that grows,
Like a tree in yonder valley when the blooms are all gone,
Don't you see what I'm come to by loving but one?

To the green fields and branches we shall now bid adieu,
Likewise to my Flora, she proved so untrue,
Likewise to my Flora, she proved so unkind,
Like a false-hearted lovyer she soon changed her mind.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:43 PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 12:48 PM

"The Unkind Shepherdess" Huh? Nothing in the song indicates that she is a shepherdess. Nothing indicates that she has been leading him on or has promised him anything. She's just a young woman who wants more time to think and to grow before she marries.

What's wrong with that?

FYI - I too like the idea of the swain giving away his parakeet rather than his wallet.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 12 - 01:00 PM

"The Unkind Shepherdess" Huh? Nothing in the song indicates that she is a shepherdess.
Just the title under which it was published.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 03:19 PM

I did say earlier that I hoped to post the lyrics to 'Floro', as sung by Mrs Cassie Sheeran of Knockmore, Fermanagh which appeared on the cassette 'Here is a Health' - a collection of recordings from Fermanagh made by Seán Corcoran. However, thanks to Liberty Boy, I've found a superb YouTube recording of Rosie Stewart singing Floro, in a version very similar to the one sung by Mrs Sheeran.

Matthew


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST,surreysinger sans cookie
Date: 05 Dec 12 - 05:41 PM

>> Nothing indicates that she has been leading him on or has promised >>
Errmm .. oh yes she did. Read the words of "The Unkind Shepherdess" and you will see that she promises him that she will return to marry him when she returns from her stint in service ... but then turns round and goes back on her promise because she's living a cosy and contented life and doesn't want to be a poor shepherd's wife. In all my years of singing the song, she's always struck me as a rather shallow and fickle little thing!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Sheep Crook and Black Dog (Ewan MacColl)
From: Brian Peters
Date: 06 Dec 12 - 08:18 AM

I remember a conversation with Bob Copper, in which he said: "What you have to remember is that, for many young women from the lower end of the scale, going into service represented the only chance they had of getting an education."

In other words, not only does Flora find a degree of comfort in her new post, she has - relative to the agricultural working class, at least - become upwardly mobile. The shepherd boy is a part of her old life, and its small wonder she wants to move on.

The way I read the song, her line about being too young for marriage is simply an excuse to avoid a future she doesn't particularly relish, even before the change in her circumstances.

Meanwhile, is the shepherd boy ready to top himself by the end, or is he just planning to move to another area, to leave behind some bitter memories?

A very moving song, for anyone who's felt the pain of rejection...


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