Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: JohnB
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 10:52 AM

You may have been wrong doc.tom but you were right, "Best setting of it I've ever heard"
JohnB

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: doc.tom
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 05:20 AM

Wrong again damn it! The memory's going. It was on the Albion's LP Battle of the Field (Albion Sunrise was another track on that same LP).

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: doc.tom
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 05:15 AM

Best setting of it I've ever heard is the Albion Band's recording on Albion Sunrise!

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: GUEST,Nat.
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 12:32 AM

I heard through the grapevine that the BMP had claimed New Saint George as their own...Does anone know if that is true or just a rumour?

Nat.

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 03:47 PM

I forgot to add Shanahy is where I first heard the song too.
Saw them in Utah when on a visit about ten years ago. They didn't play the New St Geo, but it was on the CD.
As a protest song, this always puts me more in mind of Blake or Shelley than Dylan.

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 03:29 PM

Sorry if this is stating the bleeding obvious

You'd think it would be, wouldn't you, but 35 years on, the lyrics even more relevant than they were then:

They choke the air and bleed us
These noble men who lead us . . .

. . . The fish and fowl are ailing
The farmer's life is failing . . .

Subject: RE: Origins: New St. George (Richard Thompson)
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 21 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM

Noticed nobody ever answered the original question. Better late than never.
Basicaly, it's a cry for the English to shake off their indifference and shape a better society.
The Cross of St. George is the national flag of England. it's the red one you see on the Union Jack. So Thompson is using it as a symbol of England and a rallying point for a better future. To dance to it is just a way of saying follow the flag.
Sorry if this is stating the bleeding obvious.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From:
Date: 26 May 00 - 09:22 PM

I arrived on Planet Mudcat 5 weeks ago, and am just waking up to this new world. Are there really savvy people on this planet who don't think Richard Thompson is about as good as this genre gets? I've seen him 4 times in concert. Nobody, but nobody banters with the audience like Richard. In fact I was thinking of a thread: "performer-audience banter at shows." Anyway, Richard can do little wrong. I'll finish, however, on a mildly contrarian note: a thread on "favorite Rich Thompson songs" about three weeks ago voted heavily in favor of "Beeswing." Hummmmm, that one does not toss my confetti. -- sincerely, Harold

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Noreen
Date: 26 May 00 - 05:34 PM

How did you get on, Joe?

from an interested RT addict who has just found this thread!

Regards

Noreen

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 01:13 AM

I know it's hard to accept, Rechal, but even I have flaws. Maybe I haven't given old Richard a decent chance. So far, though, when I listen to his songs, I usually don't understand what he's getting at. I like Sandy Denny. I like some of Fairport Convention. I suppose I could work on trying to like Richard Thompson, but I don't think I'd have much success. To me, he's kind of like modern art and modern poetry. I just don't get it.
Sorry to disappoint you.
-Joe-

Well, I don't have any Richard Thompson CD's, but I just put on a collection of Richard Thompson songs recorded by Dave Burland, and I'll give him a chance. I have to admit I kinda liked "The New St. George."

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: rechal
Date: 30 Sep 97 - 12:34 AM

Oh, Joe. How can you not love Richard? And you were my hero....

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 24 Sep 97 - 11:31 PM

Dear Joe,

Nope, Mr. Thompson isn't nasty, nor did I mean to imply it. He is blessed with a uniquely off-kilter and ironic turn of mind and phrase that appeals to some of us - and he is an inventive and amazing guitarist as well.

As for me, I am just plain wrong about "schadenfreude" as far as what I thought it meant. I am reminded of the response of Samuel Johnson, English savant and compiler of the first modern English dictionary, when a woman asked him why he had erroneously defined the word "pastern" as "the knee of a horse" in his dictionary.

"Ignorance, Madam; pure ignorance," was his reply.

One nice thing about being among friends is one is free to be wrong at the top of one's lungs - and still be welcome among friends.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Sep 97 - 02:01 AM

My dictionay says "rejoicing over the misfortune of another." I don't think that is what the writer meant to say about Richard Thompson - or is it? I never developed a liking for his songs, so I haven't studied him well enough to say whether this word is accurate. Is he really that nasty?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 23 Sep 97 - 12:44 PM

Dear Shula and Wolfgang,

My thanks to both of you for the clarification!

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Wolfgang (Hell)
Date: 23 Sep 97 - 07:07 AM

Shula's "damage-joy" is a good word-for-word translation. My dictionary gives "gloating" as a single word translation.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Shula
Date: 10 Sep 97 - 05:28 AM

Mountain Dog: Had previously heard "schoedenfreude" translated as "DAMAGE-joy," the ugly propensity, inexpressible in a single word in most European languages, to take delight in the misery of others. Scholars of German, clarification, please?

Thanks,

Shula

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From:
Date: 09 Sep 97 - 10:41 PM

I might go farther than Tim and ask, "Does anyone know what the heck 'dance to the new St. George' means?"

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From:
Date: 09 Sep 97 - 07:46 PM

Was there an Old St. George?

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: rechal
Date: 06 Sep 97 - 11:58 PM

MountainDog-- You're right, RT would probably find my "noose of joy" very amusing, especially considering his song, "Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman." Clearly, he has a taste for gallows humor.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: rechal
Date: 06 Sep 97 - 11:55 PM

MountainDog-- You're right, RT would probably find my "noose of joy" very amusing, especially considering his song, "Poor Will and the Jolly Hangman." Clearly, he has a taste for gallows humor.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: LaMarca
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 05:12 PM

I'm a big fan of Richard Thompson, too. There is a good Web page about him with a complete discography, song lyrics, upcoming concert dates, biography, etc. at

Henry the Human Fly Caught in the Web

The Washington DC band "The New St. George" is no more, alas. Jennifer Cutting, the keyboard and squeezebox player who started the band and who wrote and/or arranged most of their material, disbanded it when too many personnel changes and independant projects by band members started to take its toll on their ability to rehearse and keep up the high musical quality she wanted for the band.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 04:39 PM

Dear Rechal,

Somehow, I think your "noose of joy" interpretation would wring a fine bittersweet grin or wry chuckle from Richard Thompson, given his affection for lyrics brimming with schadenfreude*. I for one certainly enjoyed it!

*A wonderful German oxymoron, literally translated as "sad joy".

Best regards

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: rechal
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 02:32 PM

I realize how incredibly stupid this sounds, but when I listen to this song, I always sing along: "...and dance to the noose of joy."

I don't think I ever connected the song title on the back of the CD with what I heard. Come, let us all dance to the noose of joy. Or drink some Nuits St. George.

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 11:08 AM

Dear BK,

I've seen a "New St. George" play at Ireland's Four Provinces and the Birchmere in the DC metro area. Is that the same outfit you mentioned? Good band, though I've not seen them in some years.

Regards

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: BK
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 12:21 AM

There is also a band (at least one) called "New St. George" guess that's where they got the name... Thanks for the interesting info...

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: INFO REQ: New St. George/Richard Thompson
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 05:16 PM

Dear Jon,

This tune is on Richard Thompson's solo album "Richard Thompson Starring as Henry the Human Fly". I've got it on LP as a British import, but I think it was released in the US on Reprise. (Great album, by the way.) I can get more detailed info for you if you'd like.

For a great hoard of his lyrics and some chords, check under his name in the OLGA archives.

For background on Thompson himself, I'd suggest searching the Web with your favorite search engine under his name and under Fairport Convention, of which he was a founding member. For that matter, I'd search this very discussion forum by subject using his name, as he's cited fairly often in these threads.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE NEW ST. GEORGE (Richard Thompson)
From: Jon W.
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 05:05 PM

I got this song from a CD by a local Celtic band, Shanahy. I don't know how old the song is. Any background info would be appreciated on the song or its author, Richard Thompson.

The New Saint George

The time has come for action
Leave your satisfaction
Can't you hear St. George's tune
St. George's tune is calling you on
Freedom was your mother
So fight for one another
Leave the factory and the forge
And dance to the new St. George.

Don't believe the pretenders
Who say they will defend us
While they gnash their teeth and wait
The other purse is being paid
Choke the air and bleed us
Noblemen who feed us
Leave the factory and the forge
And dance to the new St. George.

The fish and fowl are ailing
The farmer's wife is failing
Where are all the back row boys
The back row boys can save us now
Freedom was your mother
So fight for one another
Leave the factory and the forge
And dance to the new St. George.

Thanks, Jon