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Favorite religious Christmas music

rabbitrunning 11 Dec 00 - 07:44 PM
Joe Offer 11 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM
Mooh 11 Dec 00 - 08:12 PM
Matt_R 11 Dec 00 - 08:19 PM
Hotspur 11 Dec 00 - 10:54 PM
Susan A-R 11 Dec 00 - 11:06 PM
kimmers 12 Dec 00 - 12:42 AM
roopoo 12 Dec 00 - 01:59 AM
mkebenn 12 Dec 00 - 08:06 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 12 Dec 00 - 09:31 AM
Mrrzy 12 Dec 00 - 09:36 AM
alison 12 Dec 00 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,rabbitrunning 12 Dec 00 - 10:36 AM
Kim C 12 Dec 00 - 10:58 AM
Robby 12 Dec 00 - 01:35 PM
mousethief 12 Dec 00 - 03:07 PM
Snuffy 12 Dec 00 - 07:07 PM
Matt_R 12 Dec 00 - 07:18 PM
Burke 12 Dec 00 - 07:31 PM
Nathan in Texas 12 Dec 00 - 09:28 PM
richlmo 12 Dec 00 - 10:35 PM
rabbitrunning 12 Dec 00 - 11:46 PM
Peter Kasin 13 Dec 00 - 02:38 AM
Ella who is Sooze 13 Dec 00 - 04:37 AM
Matt_R 13 Dec 00 - 09:12 AM
Mrrzy 13 Dec 00 - 11:11 AM
Ella who is Sooze 13 Dec 00 - 12:13 PM
Les from Hull 13 Dec 00 - 04:16 PM
Les from Hull 13 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM
rabbitrunning 13 Dec 00 - 11:02 PM
Jimmy C 14 Dec 00 - 12:57 AM
Trevor 14 Dec 00 - 01:47 PM
GUEST,Guest- Jean Ritchie 14 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM
Snuffy 14 Dec 00 - 08:38 PM
Snuffy 14 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM
Matt_R 14 Dec 00 - 09:35 PM
Ella who is Sooze 15 Dec 00 - 04:27 AM
GUEST,Jean Ritchie 16 Dec 00 - 06:24 PM
Jeri 16 Dec 00 - 06:55 PM
Matt_R 16 Dec 00 - 07:11 PM
Caitrin 16 Dec 00 - 07:23 PM
rabbitrunning 17 Dec 00 - 09:23 AM
Snuffy 17 Dec 00 - 06:30 PM
Haruo 17 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM
Haruo 17 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM
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Tattie Bogle 17 Dec 00 - 07:54 PM
GUEST,Jean 17 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM
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Haruo 17 Dec 00 - 08:18 PM
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Mary in Kentucky 18 Dec 00 - 09:01 PM
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Haruo 19 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM
The Celtic Bard 19 Dec 00 - 10:46 PM
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sophocleese 20 Dec 00 - 08:29 AM
mg 20 Dec 00 - 11:16 AM
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MMario 20 Dec 00 - 05:48 PM
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pastorpest 20 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM
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Susan A-R 20 Dec 00 - 10:06 PM
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GUEST,wes williams 21 Dec 00 - 09:11 AM
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catspaw49 21 Dec 00 - 11:30 AM
Haruo 21 Dec 00 - 04:14 PM
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mousethief 21 Dec 00 - 04:39 PM
Haruo 21 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM
MMario 21 Dec 00 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,Jean 21 Dec 00 - 09:20 PM
Mary in Kentucky 21 Dec 00 - 09:36 PM
GUEST,Jean 22 Dec 00 - 08:35 PM
catspaw49 22 Dec 00 - 08:43 PM
Snuffy 23 Dec 00 - 07:38 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 23 Dec 00 - 07:55 AM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Dec 00 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Jean 23 Dec 00 - 03:26 PM
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Subject: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:44 PM

So the people whose favorites didn't fit on the other thread, I thought I'd start one for those of us who love the religious Christmas music.

For me, some of the top favorites are:

Riu Riu Chiu
Rocking
March of the Kings
Coventry Carol
I wonder as I wander
The Cherry Tree Carol
Noel Nouvelet
Masters in this Hall
Infant Holy, Infant Lowly
Do You Hear What I Hear

Any others?


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM

Religious or not, I think Riu riu Chiu is downright sexy. I love it.
Other favorites of mine are "Carol of the Bells," "Lo, How a Rose," the German carol Still, Still, Still, and Gaudete (as sung by Steeleye Span).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 08:12 PM

The Huron Carol. The Holly and the Ivy. The Cambridge Hymnal has some nice stuff in it too. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 08:19 PM

Wow, someone else know "Rocking"! Does the English translation sound familiar? "We will rock you, rock you, rock you..we will rock you, rock you, rock you, little baby...."

Throw in Gesu Bambino too.

BTW Gaudete is best by Brother Seamus Kennedy


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Hotspur
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 10:54 PM

"What Sweeter Music" is one of my favorites. "Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence" always gives me chills. "People Look East" is upbeat and joyful, and "Prepare the Way O Zion" is good too. I also love the Sussex Carol and "In the Deep Midwinter" (Holst version.)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Susan A-R
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 11:06 PM

Lo How a Rose, Cherry Tree (the one with the verse about the stars and elm trees trembling with fear) Green Grows the Holly, Wexford Carol, Good King Wenceslos (my spelling is falling apart folks)

I'm headed for a caroling party on Saturday evening. Keep 'em coming.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: kimmers
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 12:42 AM

Anything by John Rutter, esp. "What Sweeter Music".

"Tomorrow Shall Be My Dancing Day"

Two years ago, we sang something that I believe was just called "Shepherd's Song", originally a French carol. Loved it.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: roopoo
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 01:59 AM

I love "It came upon the midnight clear". Just read the words. Especially: "And man, at war with man, hears not the lovesong which they bring. Oh hush the noise, ye men of strife, and hear the angels sing". I believe it was originally an American Unitarian Carol.

Andrea


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mkebenn
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:06 AM

What Child Is This? And my voice always cracks when singing The Cherry Tree Carol. Mike Bennett


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:31 AM

I love every single one mentioned. And over-worked as it is I still love Silent Night.
Also......
Children Go Where I Send Thee
Mary Had a Baby
The Holly and the Ivy (any version at all!)
D'ou Viens-tu, Bergere?
The Holly Tree Carol (by Jean Ritchie)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:36 AM

Is A Soalin' religious enough for this thread, or should I post it on the other?

Jehovah Halleluliah
I wonder as I wander (anyone else hear the lyric as "For poor ornery people like you and like I?)
Down in Yon Forest
Little Drummer Boy
We Three Kigs

Ok, ok, I like most of the "traditional" ones!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: alison
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:41 AM

"The angel Gabriel" (most highly flavoured gravy *grin*), and "In the bleak Mid-Winter".....

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,rabbitrunning
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 10:36 AM

Yes, Matt, those are the words I know to "Rocking" I've got a tape some where of the Trapp Family Singers singing it, and a CD where Julie Andrews sings it. **grin**


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 10:58 AM

O Come O Come Emmanuel. Oh Holy Night - LOVE Joan Baez's version in French. Jesus Jesus Rest Your Head. Hark the Herald Angels Sing. God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. Cherry Tree Carol. Someone else mentioned the Holly Tree Carol, which Mister and I have just added to our list this year. The Bellman's Carol.

Thanks - that has lifted my spirits!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Robby
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 01:35 PM

Adestes Fidelis Silent Night
Gesu Bambino
Bring Your Torch Jeannette Isabella
The Cherry Tree Carol
The Christ Child's Lullaby (Kathy Mattea's??[spelling]
version)
O Little Town Of Bethlehem


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 03:07 PM

All of the above (except Holly and the Ivy, the lyrics to which I just don't get -- although the George Winston (instrumental) version is wonderful), as well as:

I saw 3 ships
O Bambino (One Cold and Blessed Winter)
Mary's Boy Chile

But my absolute favorite (I know, I'm weird) is:

The Snow Lay On the Ground.

I just love this one. don't ask me why.

Silent Night is chilling. Especially in German. Interestingly, the German text is mostly about the humanness of the Infant, whereas the usual English translation is more about His divinity.

Great thread!

Alex


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 07:07 PM

Rocking is brilliant. My Hymnal (Songs of Praise) says "Melody 'Hajej Nynjej' as sung in Czechoslovakia (origin unknown)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 07:18 PM

Former Queen guitar player Brian May used "Rocking" at the beginning and the end of his album Back To The Light.


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Subject: Lyr Add: OXFORD
From: Burke
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 07:31 PM

Angels we have Heard on High
Oh Come all ye Faithful
The Snow Lay on the Ground
Est ist ein Rose
While Shepherds watched their flocks by Night (Sherburne)

Oxford from the Sacred Harp Lyrics by Isaac Watts:
Shepherds, rejoice! lift up your eyes,
And send your fears away:
News from the regions of the skies --
A Savior's born today!
Jesus, the God whom angels fear,
Comes down to dwell with you...
Today He makes His entrance here,
But not as monarchs do.

No gold nor purple swaddling bands,
Nor royal shining things,
A manger for His cradle stands,
And holds the King of kings.
Go, shepherds, where the infant lies,
And see His humble throne,
With tears of joy in all your eyes,
Go shepherds, kiss the Son.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MARY, DID YOU KNOW? (M Lowry, B Greene)
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:28 PM

A new favorite, "Mary, Did You Know?" I learned from the CD "Frost and Fire," by Barry McGuire and Terry Talbot. You can hear an audio clip at their website:
http://www.talbotmcguire.com/
MARY, DID YOU KNOW?
Lyrics by Mark Lowry, Music by Buddy Greene

Mary, did you know
that your baby boy will one day walk on water?
Mary, did you know
that your baby boy will save our sons and daughters?
Did you know that your baby boy has come to make you new?
This child that you've delivered will soon deliver you.


Mary, did you know
that your baby boy will give sight to a blind man?
Mary, did you know
that your baby boy will calm a storm with His hand?
Did you know
that your baby boy has walked where angels trod?
And when you kiss your little baby you've kissed the face of God.


The blind will see.
The deaf will hear.
The dead will live again.
The lame will leap.
The dumb will speak
The praises of The Lamb.

Mary, did you know
that your baby boy is Lord of all creation?
Mary, did you know
that your baby boy will one day rule the nations?
Did you know that your baby boy is heaven's perfect Lamb?
This sleeping child you're holding is the Great I Am.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: richlmo
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 10:35 PM

Silent Night is The Christmas song I remember singing as a child. It is still beautiful. I agree with "Mary, Did You Know? ". such a powerful song.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 11:46 PM

Whoops, it's "Jesus Jesus Rest Your Head" I have by both the Trapps and Julie Andrews. I've only got JA singing "Rocking" but it's in a medley with the other song, so I got mixed up. Love them both, though.

But at least I was inspired to find my tape of the Trapp Family. They're really quite wonderful.

Does anyone know the English (or original) words to "Pastores A Belen"? I can understand "Vamos la nino Manuel" I think, which sounds like "come baby Emmanuel".


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 02:38 AM

I love some of the standards. Oh, Come All Ye Faithful is my favorite Christmas song of all, perfectly suited for full chorus w/ orchestra renditions, with Joy To The World and Good King What's His Face a close second/third (Oh, yeah, Wenceslas). Apart from the standards, I find John Roberts and Tony Barrand's album Nowell Sing We Clear a real gem of a recording.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 04:37 AM

good king wenclessessessessessslassessss (never did know when to stop)

E


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 09:12 AM

George Winston does a superb job on "Jesus Jesus Rest Your Head". I love "I Wonder As I Wonder" as well. Come to think of it, I love everything JJ Niles found!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 11:11 AM

Good King Wenceslas looked out ON THE FEAST OF STEPHEN - which is Dec 26th! (Boxing day too.) But it's still Christmassy...


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 12:13 PM

hey... I'm from the UK I'm allowed to be eccentric

and we sing it round here for caroling... well not me... because it's too bloomin cold.

and don't you just hate know it alls

Oh be quiet

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....

So... shove it - bah bloomin humbug and all their scroogy friends...

(JOKING.... before anyone attacks me)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 04:16 PM

My favourites? Jacob's Well, Diadem, Pentonville, Awake Arise, Oughtibridge, There's a very strong carolling tradition in South Yorkshire. I was in the Royal at Dungworth last Sunday, singing along (with about 200 others) to a whole range of carols that you don't hear in many other places. If you want to know a bit more about South Yorkshire carols have a look at:- http://web2.si.edu/folkways/40476.htm (gives details of a Smithsonian Folkways CD) http://www.sgpublishing.co.uk/gm/vc/vcfest.html (Ian Russell's site, giving details of everything else)

Cheers, Les


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Les from Hull
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM

Sorry about the lack of blue clicky in my last post. I'll get modern one of these days. But I should mention The Voice Squad's rendition of Coventry Carol - that's the absolute best there is.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 11:02 PM

I'll have to go looking. I've never heard of most of the songs you mentioned, Les, and am now fascinated.

My favorite version of Coventry Carol is the one the King's Singers did on "A Little Christmas Music." The arrangement jars me almost as much as the song does. Don't know why it's a favorite, when it gives me the creeps every year, but there it is.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Jimmy C
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 12:57 AM

I like many religious christmas carols but my favourite has to be the "Huron Carol"
Others are
Angels we have Heard on High Adeste Fideles ( Oh come all you faithful)
and of course " Silent Night"


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Trevor
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 01:47 PM

I like 'Gabriel's Message' and 'Il est ne'. Last year we sang a mediaeval carol called 'As I Outrode This Enders Night' - anybody know it?

'Rocking' always reminds me of the kid's carol service where the little ones always sing 'We will ro kyew, ro kyew, ro kyew'. Our choirmaster is always on about getting more enunciation of the 'K' sound - we must have forgotten it somewhere along the line!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Guest- Jean Ritchie
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM

Thanks, someone, way back up the thread,who liked my song, "The Holly Carol." I love ALL carols, but my very favorite of all time is my Granny Catty's Old Christmas hymn, "Brightest and Best of the Suns of the Morning."


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:38 PM

Guest Jean Ritchie

I've always loved "Brightest and Best of the Suns of the Morning."

My hymnal (Songs of Praise) gives two tunes, but neither are the one I know her in the UK. The ones it gives are:

  • LIEBSTER IMMANUEL Late form of melody from Himmels-Lust 1679) - 3 1/2-notes to a bar
  • LIME STREET Geoffrey Shaw - 1 1/2-note and 2 1/4-notes to a bar
The hymn is in 11.10.11.10 verse meter, but none of the other tunes in that meter are the one I know. Which tune do you use?

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM

Sorry about the attack of italics. My excuse is I was distracted by having to switch to the Ragtime server when the other one died as I pressed Submit.

The original posting had no mistakes whatsoever. Honest!! **BG**


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 09:35 PM

I like "Salva Nos" by the Medieval Baebes


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 04:27 AM

lol Matt... are you sure it's just the song you like?

(giggle)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean Ritchie
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:24 PM

Snuffy- It appears here in the shape-note hymnals as, "Star in the East." Granny, however, didn't carry a tune too well so it became "Ritchized" over the years. My older sisters, learning it from her shortly after the turn of the century, passed it on down in the family. I'm the youngest, born in '22, am now 78.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:55 PM

Click for Star in the East. The music starts playing automatically when you go to the page.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 07:11 PM

Well Ella, I heard the song before I even knew who they were, much less knew what they look like.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Caitrin
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 07:23 PM

*grins* Matt, don't take yourself so bloody seriously! She was just joking! "I Wonder As I Wander" has always been one of my favorites. Lovely alto or tenor solo. "Riu Riu Chiu" is great, too...I especially like it as done by a men's choir. I'm quite fond of madrigals, so "Nowell Sing We Clear" is one of my favorites to sing. When I'm in a show-off mood, though, "Angels We Have Heard On High" and "Stille Nacht" are my choices.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 09:23 AM

I picked up an Andy Williams CD and it has "Some Children See Him" which is more religious than not. I'd almost forgotten it, and it was nice to hear it again.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:30 PM

Jean,

Mudcatter Liland has seven tunes for Brightest and Best on this page of his Esperanto site. The very first one EPIPHANY HYMN by JF Thrupp is the one that I know, and there are two versions of Star in the East from the Sacred Harp, but I don't know if they've been "Ritchized" or not.

Wassail! V


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM

The Cyber Hymnal's Star in the East is not the same as the shapenote tunes by that name used for Brightest and Best of the Sons of the Morning. Not at all. There are two different tunes "Star in the East" in the US shapenote tunebooks, for that matter, and they are as far as I can tell unrelated (though both are used for Brightest and Best). The one from the Southern Harmony is twice as long as the one from the Sacred Harp; the Southern Harmony tune is usually set either so you sing the "Brightest and Best" stanza as a refrain (as in An Online Christmas Songbook's rendition, or else two stanzas of the text are sung to one stanza of the tune, often with the anonymous first (half-)stanza "Hail the blest morn" (also found in Sacred Harp) or with "Brightest and Best" repeated as a final half-stanza. MIDIs of both (as well as six other tunes, one of them the shapenote tune "Walker") are available in my Esperanto hymnal (go to the Esperanto version of Brightest and Best, Filo plej hela, and scroll down below the text to get to the MIDI links. The background music is Thrupp's Epiphany Hymn. The most common "mainstream [i.e. Northern, roundnote] Protestant" US setting is Harding's Morning Star, though in the last 20 years or so one often sees shapenote tunes (albeit not actually in shape notes!) in Yankee hymnals. I'd never heard of setting it to Lime Street before; the tune I am missing (if anybody has it, by all means send it or post it) is Epiphany (Hopkins). The Cyber Hymnal (which, linkers be warned, changed its URL last week; it was at tch.simplenet.com, now it's at www.wordnic.com/~tch) has another tune named "Epiphany (Filby)" which with a bit of judicious editing can also be made to fit this text quite well.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:33 PM

Somebody mentioned "Shepherds Rejoice" to Oxford, as in The Sacred Harp; I also like it to Billings' tune Boston, as in my hymnal. And while I'm plugging my own stuff, I should mention my Christmas/Innocents carol, In Bethlem Town, to the "Pesky Sarpent/Springfield Mountain" tune. The tune may seem a bit jaunty for the slaughter of the innocent children, but surely the same cavil applies in case of snakebite, non? And I do now have the correct tune (though not a very well sequenced MIDI of it) at Who'd Have Thought the Lord Almighty, my "sacred ballad" in memory and honour of the women of Matthew 1 (i.e. Jesus' ancestrices).

My Online Christmas Carols in Esperanto page is a useful list of much of my Christmas stuff. My general Songlist (including secular material) is in the Mudcat Links list.

There's a Chinese carol (it's in the 1990 (PCUSA) Presbyterian Hymnal (aka Hymns, Psalms and Spiritual Songs); I think also in the 1995 Episcopal Wonder Love and Praise) called something like "Sheng Yi Chen, Shen Qi Chen" (Chinese is not one of my many languages!), that is beautiful.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:51 PM

For anyone planning on actually singing "Hail the blest morn (Brightest and Best)" from An Online Christmas Songbook, be aware that there are two typos in the text there presented: it should read
"Shepherds, go worship the babe in the manger" (v.1, l.3)
(not "the base in the manger")
and
"Richer by far is the heart's adoration" (v.4, l.3)
(not "richer be far").

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:54 PM

What about the masses/oratorios?

Messiah

Praetorius Christmas Mass (already mentioned this on another thread)

Bach "Christmas Oratorio"

Czech "Christmas Mass"

Favourite carols - "Three Kings from Persian Lands afar" especially the final "offer my heart" - O Holy Night

- The Boar's Head and anything in Latin!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM

Snuffy and Liland- Thanks for the variations and the information. Interesting, even to a non-scholar like myself. The nearest tune to ours is one of the MIDI versions: Southern Harmony 1835 (arr. Wm. Walker). But we never had songbooks; I think Granny Katty had heard it sung in the Old Regular Baptist Church she went to, and just disremembered the tune. She love to sing but was not very good with getting tunes right, so over the years "our" tune evolved. If you care to you can hear my family singing it (it's the song sample from my Christmas record, "Kentucky Christmas- Old & New"). Don't know how to put it online here, but you can go to my site, www.jeanritchie.com click on Recordings, find the Christmas record then click on the song sample.

Anyway, this is the "folk" way the song is sung in the Kentucky Mountains! Jean


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:07 PM

Liland- Forgot to say that we sang, "suns" instead of "sons" of the morning, as the song is addressed to the Christmas star, the "Star in the East." Jean


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:18 PM

Incidentally, since I mentioned An Online Christmas Songbook above, I should add that I really like their early-American fuging tune setting of Joy to the World, to SHOUTING JOY.

By the way, Jean, in your local dialect is there a difference between "suns" and "sons" (a difference in pronunciation, I mean - would a listener know which you were singing? "Sons" is the way Heber wrote it back in 1811, but some later Protestant hymnals changed it to "Stars" (probably for fear the Brightest and Best Son might be confused with the Infant Himself); "Suns" is an interesting and useful compromise.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM

Tattie Bogle, I love the Boar's Head Carol, but I think calling it "religious" is a bit of a stretch. I think "in honour of the King of Bliss" is really just an excuse to eat a pig's head. Here at Seattle's Fremont Baptist Church we sing it "in Fremonstrensi atrio". And we have indeed sung it (though never yet with a real boar's head for a prop!).

Liland


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Subject: Re: O Come, O Come Emmanuel
From: Haruo
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:46 AM

Those who like "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" (or its Latin original, "Veni, veni Emmanuel") I invite to read my post concerning the O Antiphons that lie behind the hymn. This is the week these antiphons are on the Vespers menu.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,winterbright
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 07:04 PM

Anybody know a song called "Borning Day" from an old Harry Belafonte album? I've sung it at our coffee house the last two Decembers and it always gets lots of "I've never heard that before"s. It's one of my favorites!

Also, anything by John Rutter is perfect!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM

Liland- If "sun" IS a change, I vote that it's a good one. The whole of that chorus is addressed to the Star: Brightest and best of the suns of the morning, Dawn on our darkness and lend us thine aid; Star in the east, the horizon adorning, Guide where our infant Redeemer is laid.

Also- the "Son of the morning" was (is?),I think, Lucifer!

Loved your song about the five historical ladies- certainly something to think on... Jean


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:01 PM

Guest, Jean Ritchie - I really don't believe that you're THE REAL JEAN RITCHIE! But it really doesn't matter. You seem to know all about her. BTW, tell her that many of us here think she's great! Here's a link to her homepage, click. And here's a link to the page with her Christmas record, "Kentucky Christmas- Old & New" and the song "Best and Brightest", here.


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Subject: 12 Days of Christmas etc.
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM

From an insert in the program of "An Evening of Christmas Songs and Carols", Rose Hill Presbyterian Church, Kirkland, Washington, USA, Sunday, December 17, 2000 - 7:00 pm. (I've refrained from correcting or emending the text - LBR)

The Twelve Days of Christmas

In England during the period of 1558 to 1829, Catholics were
prohibited by law    from any practice of their faith
- private or public. It was a crime to be a Catholic.

"The Twelve Days of Christmas" was written in England as one of the 'catechism songs' to help young Catholics learn the tenets of their faith. During that period a person caught with anything in 'writing' indicating an adherence to the Catholic faith could not only be imprisoned, but could also be hanged.

The song's gifts are hidden meanings to the teachings of the faith.

"True Love" mentioned in the opening line refers to God.
"Me" refers to every baptized person.

The other symbols mean the following:

  1. Partridge in a Pear Tree = Jesus Christ
  2. Turtle Doves = The Old and New Testaments
  3. French Hens = Faith, Hope and Charity    or
    the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (the Trinity)
  4. Calling Birds = The Four Gospels and/or the Four Evangelists
  5. Golden Rings = The first Five Books of the Old Testament    or
    The Catholic Church's five obligatory sacraments: baptism, communion, confirmation, penance and last rites
  6. Geese A-laying = The six days of creation
  7. Swans A-swimming = The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, the seven sacraments
  8. Maids A-milking = The eight beatitudes or the eight times a year that Roman Catholics in those days were required to receive Holy Communion
  9. Ladies Dancing = The nine Fruits of the Holy Spirit
  10. Lords A-leaping = The Ten Commandments
  11. Pipers Piping = The eleven apostles, excluding Judas
  12. Drummers Drumming = The twelve points of doctrine in the Apostle's Creed


As an aside it may be worth mentioning, in the light of the above (somewhat but not entirely exaggerated) description of the persecution of England's Catholics, that the Faber hymn "Faith of our fathers", which has long been a mainstay of evangelical Protestant hymnody at least in the US, was written precisely in memory of those Catholic fathers (in both senses) who kept the Roman faith alive in England:


Faith of our fathers, living still
In spite of dungeon, fire, and sword,
Oh, how our hearts beat high with joy
Whene'er we hear that glorious word.
Faith of our fathers, holy faith,
We will be true to thee till death.

The original text of the hymn had a verse wherein it was affirmed that "Mary's prayers / will win all England back to thee". Speaking of which it's interesting to note that the 12 Days of Christmas as interpreted above contain not a whiff of Mariolatry or hagiolatry, as we Protestants misterm hyperdulia and dulia.

Liland


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Subject: to mouldy
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:22 PM

mouldy,
I noticed your post on "It came upon the midnight clear", and am wondering what tune you sing it to. I'm American, and we almost without exception sing it to "Carol" by Richard Willis; in England I'm under the impression it's most often sung to "Noel", a traditional English tune arranged by Sir Arthur Sullivan; this is sometimes met with in hymnals in the Anglican-influenced traditions here (US), but is rarely sung even in the churches whose hymnals have it. Where are you and what tune do you use? (If you want to be reminded which is which, you can hear "Carol" and "Noel", if your computer plays MIDI files, as the background music here (Carol) and here (Noel) respectively in my Esperanto hymnal.)
Liland


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Subject: More favorites and queries
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:23 PM

A few songs that I haven't seen mentioned that I like are
  1. A Stable Lamp is Lighted (Richard Wilbur, © 1961) to the tune ANDÚJAR (David Hurd, © 1984); there's another, earlier (© 1969) tune called TOLLEFSON (after the composer) in the Lutheran Book of Worship, but I haven't tried it yet.

  2. One Candle Is Lit by Mary Anne Parrott, © 1995 Chalice Press (in the Chalice Hymnal), set to CRADLE SONG, the Kirkpatrick tune often used for Away in a Manger; this should be quite effective as a sort of antiphon to the weekly lighting of Advent candles
  3. Child in the Manger to BUNESSAN ("Morning has broken")
  4. On this day earth shall ring ("Personent hodie")
  5. In Dulci Jubilo (macaronic with Latin the way Suso sang it, not the Neale chauvinizing version or its revisionist revisions)

A few that are in my Esperanto hymnal (see Christmas list) but that I am looking for English versions of (if you know the English texts, send me PM or email!) are:

  1. At even, long ago, by C. Bingham (also titled "The Star Eternal")
  2. Che l' Kristofesto ghojas ni, by Ellen Gregory
  3. Det susar genom livets strid, by Carl Boberg (famous in English for How Great Thou Art, but none of his other Swedish hymns seem to have been translated - into English, that is; we have several in Esperanto)
  4. Fra fjord og fjære, by Magnus Brostrup Landstad
  5. La Saghuloj pro Advento, by Leonard Ivor Gentle
  6. Min själ berömmer Gud med fröjd, another one by Boberg (this time his Magnificat)
  7. Mit Hjerte altid vanker, by Hans Adolph Brorson
  8. My heart and voice I raise, by Benjamin Rhodes
  9. No koma Guds englar, by Elias Blix
  10. Sæle jolekveld, by Elias Blix (to the tune usually associated with Jesu, geh voran)
Liland


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Subject: Hispanic etc. carols
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:25 PM

Iberian and Latin American carols and Advent/Christmas/Epiphany hymns. These are taken from recent American hymnals, which frequently give one verse of the original (or of the Spanish version when the original is in Portuguese or Catalán) followed by three verses in English. Do any of you sing these (a) in caroling contexts, (b) as choral or solo music in church, or (c) as congregational hymns?

Toda la tierra (tune name TAULÈ) by Alberto Taulè or Taulé (I've usually seen the name with final e-grave, and assumed he was Catalonian, but I see here the New Century Hymnal gives e-acute.)
Pastores a Belén (tune name same) traditional Puerto Rican carol
Los magos que llegaron a Belén (tune name LOS MAGOS, trad. Puerto Rican) text by Manuel Fernandez Juncas
A la ru (Duermete, Niño lindo) (tune name A LA RU) "Hispanic folk song"
Cold December flies away (tune name LO DESEMBRE CONGELAT) authorship escapes me at the moment; this one's odd because it's usually called "Catalonian carol" and the tune name is in Catalán, but the "original" text normally given is in Spanish, "En en frio invernal", I think
Others? What about the "Basque Carol Tune" that somebody, was it Sabine Baring-Gould? put English words to. Anybody got the original Basque?


It's not Ibero-Hispanic, really, but sort of... anybody know or use the Filipino Manglakat na Kita sa Belen (anglicized in New Century Hymnal as "Let us even now go to Bethlehem"); how do you use it, and do you sing it in Tagalog or English or what? In the Philippines it's apparently part of some sort of wassail-like tradition of traipsing from house to house.

Liland


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Subject: Wie schön leuchtet?
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:27 PM

Speaking of Brightest and Best what about the "Queen of Chorales", Wie schön leuchtet (words and music both by Philipp Nicolai, 1598)? You can hear the tune as background to the Winkworth translation (O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright) in The Cyber Hymnal or in my hymnal to the Esperanto version of the Swedish hymn "Var hälsad, sköna morgonstund". (Four hundred years ago, this was cutting edge stuff! It can still be rather stirring.)

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:29 PM

rabbitrunning requested this one...

It's one of the best-known Puerto Rican Christmas carols. The Spanish is anonymous and in the public domain. This English version is, I believe, anonymous but © 1993-1995 The Pilgrim Press. If anybody wants to try their hand at translating a carol for the public domain, it shouldn't be too hard to better this one. (I'll be working on the Esperanto version, of course, for 2001.)

For those who may wish to hear the melody I've put a (melody-line-only) MIDI of it as background here on my website (click). For a simple four-part arrangement (also usable as keyboard accompaniment to unison singing) consult The New Century Hymnal, 1995.

Liland

  1. Pastores a Belén vamos con alegría,
    que ha nacido ya el hijo de María.
    Allí, allí, nos espera Jesús.
    Allí, allí, nos espera Jesús.
    Llevemos pues turrones y miel para ofrecerle al niño Manuel.
    Llevemos pues turrones y miel para ofrecerle al niño Manuel.
    Vamos, vamos, vamos a ver, vamos a ver al recién nacido,
    Vamos a ver al niño Manuel.


  2. Oh niño celestial, bendice a los pastores,
    que corren al portal cantando tus loores.
    Corred, volad, sus glorias a alcanzar.
    Corred, volad, sus glorias a alcanzar.
    Ofrece a mil amor y virtud, traed, zagal, al niño Jesús.
    Ofrece a mil amor y virtud, traed, zagal, al niño Jesús.
    Vamos, vamos, vamos a ver, vamos a ver al recién nacido,
    Vamos a ver al niño Manuel.


  1. As shepherds filled with joy, to Bethlehem we're going,
    for Mary's child is born this blessèd Christmas morning.
    See there, see there, the baby Jesus waits.
    See there, see there, the baby Jesus waits.
    O let us bring our honey so sweet, an offering for the Child to eat.
    Hurry, hurry, hurry and see, hurry and see the child born of Mary.
    Let's go and see Emmanuel.


  2. O holy, heavenly Child, the shepherds seek your blessing,
    while singing happy songs, our hope and joy confessing.
    We run, we fly, to greet the glorious Child.
    We run, we fly, to greet the glorious Child.
    With thankful hearts we offer our best to Jesus, at the manger we'll rest.
    With thankful hearts we offer our best to Jesus, at the manger we'll rest.
    Hurry, hurry, hurry and see, hurry and see the child born of Mary.
    Let's go and see Emmanuel.



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Subject: Xmas in the Antipodes
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:30 PM

Since there are at least a few folks here from south of the equator, I thought it might be worth asking if there are any specifically Down Under (or tropical) Christmas carols we frigid northerners might enjoy. The only one I've run into in an American hymnal is Shirley Erena Murray's Carol Our Christmas, set to Colin Gibson's tune REVERSI. I'll post it with the melody here for those who would like to try it out. It's in the New Century Hymnal (1995) and is © 1992 by Hope Publishing Company. (Murray is from New Zealand, and I don't know if there's a prior copyright in the Southern Hemisphere - text and tune are both dated 1986.)
Carol our Christmas, our upside-down Christmas:
Snow is not falling and trees are not bare.
Carol the summer, and welcome the Christ Child,
Warm in our sunshine and sweetness of air.

Sing of the Gold and the green and the sparkle,
Water and river and lure of the beach.
Sing in the happiness of open spaces,
Sing a nativity summer can reach!

Shepherds and musterers move over hillside,
Finding, not angels, but sheep to be shorn;
Wise ones make journeys, whatever the season,
Searching for signs of the truth to be born.

Right-side-up Christmas belongs to the universe,
Made in the moment a woman gives birth;
Hope is the Jesus gift, love is the offering,
Everywhere, anywhere, here on the earth.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:32 PM

The Chinese carol whose name I couldn't quite recall (above) is Sheng Ye Qing, Sheng Ye Jing, which is anglicized as "Holy Night, Blessed Night"; it's copyright (tune and text) by the Chinese New Hymnal, Chinese Hymnal Committee, People's Republic of China. (Isn't a PRC © an oxymoron? ;-)) The text is by Weiyu Zhu and Jingren Wu, 1921, English paraphrase by © (date?) Kathleen Moody; tune by Qigui Shy, 1982, arr. © Pen-li Chen, 1987.

I went to a Christmas Service of Songs and Carols (it had lessons, too, but they didn't give them marquee billing) last night at Rose Hill Presbyterian Church (a conservative-end-of-spectrum PCUSA church where I spent my high school years). It was okay. Not great.

They had four different (though overlapping) bell-choir ensembles, and spent an inordinate amount of time parading the bell choirs on and off stage and changing the locations of the bells. And the language was annoying to me. The lessons were read in some version that was for the most part so close to 1611 that the young lady charged with reading it obviously didn't know what she was saying half the time (but it wasn't straight KJV/AV, because it had Mary say to Gabriel, "seeing I have no husband" [and this is a bar to pregnancy??]). And the hymn texts and extemporaneous remarks of their Southern-Baptist-trained pastor were linguistically so non-inclusive (they use Hope's old Hymns for the Living Church, ca. 1974) that I thought "the denominational hymnal committee must be turning over in its collective grave".

On top of that, they had us sit while we sang, in pews that were designed to force one (of my stature, anyhow) to sit slumped back as if in a dentist's chair. Yikes. Notwithstanding all these detriments, there were high points, including a beautiful rendition of "Mary, Did You Know" which Nathan from Texas mentioned supra. And there was a very good and interesting presentation of some "additional verses to Silent Night" by a young lady with a fine voice, accompanied by the best of the four handbell groups. And there was a note in the program about the origins and symbolism of "The Twelve Days of Christmas" that I thought deserved to be posted in the Mudcat (so I will, in a separate thread).

The "additional verses to Silent Night" reminded me of Daniel Kantor's Night of Silence (in the GIA's 1991 Hymnal Supplement to the Lutheran Book of Worship, and also, I believe, in one of their Catholic volumes, probably Gather II.) It's designed to be sung simultaneously with Silent Night, sort of contrapuntally. Probably the best way to do it would be to have a choir sing the Kantor text while the congregation or a second choir sang the familiar Silent Night.
For those who collect such, here's the program:

Prelude - The 12 Days of Christmas - Brass Ensemble
Welcome & Blessing - Pastor Bill Zacharda

Scripture: Isaiah 11:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5-6
Carol #109* - Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
*[sic; actually #102]

Bell Choir - O Come, O Come Emmanuel - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 1:26-35, 46-49
Solo - My Soul Magnifies the Lord - Jean Heidal
Piano: Marilyn Gauntlett
Bell Choir - For the Beauty of Holiness - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 2:8-12
Carol #108 - The First Noel - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - What Child is This - Belles of Praise

Scripture: John 1:14, 16, 17
Carol #121 - O Little Town of Bethlehem - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - Joy to the World - Belltones
Bell Choir - Silent Night - Belltones
Soloist: Nicole Hart
[Note: The soloist sang nontraditional "additional verses" - LBR]

Brass Ensemble - A Coventry Carol - Chuck Fleming / Steve Binger / Bob Read / Byron Sanborn / Dan Oberloh

Scripture: Luke 2:13-14
Carol #113 - Angels We Have Heard on High - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - Away in a Manger - Bell Ensemble
Trio - Cherubim Song - The Silvertones

Scripture: Matthew 1:20, 21, 24, 25
Carol #106 - Hark, the Herald Angels Sing - Congregation / Brass Ensemble
Bell Choir - While By My Sheep - Praise Ringers

Scripture: Luke 2:25-33
Solo - Mary, Did you Know - Karol Pulliam
Piano: Eric Armstrong
Bell Choir - Peace, Peace - Praise Ringers
Sopranos: Karol Pulliam, Bonnie Nobriga
Carol #117 - Silent Night - Congregation / Brass Ensemble.

Narrator - Margie Jones
Song Leader - Karol Pulliam
Organist - Dianne Lee
Director of Music Ministries - Dale Heidal
Liland


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Subject: Tune and text variants
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:33 PM

Variant tunes and texts for well-known carols
(In many cases you can check which tune is which by going to the appropriate carol in my online hymnal and scrolling down below the text to where I keep my MIDIs.)

What do you sing O little town of Bethlehem to? ST. LOUIS (Redner)? FOREST GREEN (arr. Vaughan Williams)? CHRISTMAS CAROL (Walford Davies)? Fink's "BETHLEHEM"? Burnap's EPHRATAH? Yet another tune?

How about It came upon the midnight clear? Do you use CAROL (Willis) or NOEL (arr. Sullivan), or something else?

And what about Away in a manger? MUELLER (aka AWAY I A MANGER)? CRADLE SONG (aka AWAY IN A MANGER)? FLOW GENTLY SWEET AFTON?

Do you sing "Shepherds in the field abiding" or "Angels we have heard on high" as a translation of Les anges dans nos campagnes, and do you use the GLORIA or the IRIS (or another) version of the melody?

To what tune do you sing While shepherds watched their flock by night? WINCHESTER OLD? CHRISTMAS? Another?

Are there any that you regularly sing to more than one tune, or does each text have a fixed, only (or by far the most) appropriate tune in your mind?

For that matter, is there anybody here who customarily sings "Hark, the herald angels sing" to anything other than MENDELSSOHN, or anybody who normally sings the original text (starting "Hark, how all the welkin rings")?

As far as texts go, do you prefer the "What Kinder, Gentler Child Is This?" (where each stanza ends with the refrain
This, this is Christ the King, whom shepherds guard and angels sing.
Haste, haste to bring him laud, the babe, the son of Mary!),
or do you prefer a tougher-love Baby Jesus, whose second verse ends "Nails, nails shall pierce him through", etc., and the third, "Raise, raise the song on high", etc.? When you sing (or hear) "Pleased as man with men to dwell, Jesus, our Emmanuel" do you cringe at the implicit sexism, or feel warmed by the glow of tradition?

Liland

PS: There are no "right" or "wrong" answers to these things, but as a hymnal compiler I find it interesting to raise the questions.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 08:42 PM

I hope I got everything posted there. Whew! I see my links in the one to mouldy don't work. The first one needs l/ added before the file name, and the second d/. I'll try to fix 'em tonight but I'm about to run out of time here on the public library computer. Sorry. Hope the midis work on those I said had 'em.

Liland
Liland, I fixed your links. If you'd like help with editing HTML things you've posted, feel free to ask in the Help Forum (we're sure to see it there) - we're happy to do so. --JoeClone


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: The Celtic Bard
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:46 PM

My all time favorite Christmas song has always been "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day." It's such a simple song with a powerful message. I suggest looking it up. I recently found it on Travis Tritt's "A Travis Tritt Christmas" CD.

My other favorites include:

Mary, Did You Know? Brightest and Best (Kathy Mattea did a good job on both of those songs) O Holy Night (both verses) God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen What Child is This? It Came Upon a Midnight Clear Do You Hear What I Hear? (very few people seem to know the whole thing) I Saw Three Ships Sleigh Ride (the instrumental version especially when it's done well; the Boston Pops usually play it during their annual Christmas concert and they do a really good job with it) Good King Wenceslas Carol of the Bells (only if it's done well)

Rebecca <><


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: The Celtic Bard
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 10:49 PM

Another one that I forgot that I equally love is "Breath of Heaven" also known as "Mary's Song." It's amazing and hauntingly beautiful. I have a version of it being sung by Amy Grant and she did a really good version of it. One of my favorites.

Rebecca <><


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 07:53 AM

While shepherds watched...

The South Yorkshire carol tradition I mentioned earlier in this thread has about 15 tunes for this carol. My personal favourite is 'Pentonville'. Other versions have a chorus as in:

Sweet bells, sweet chiming Christmas bells
Sweet bells, sweet chiming Christmas bells
They cheer us on our heavenly way
Sweet Christmas bells.

Other carols sung are well-known sets of words to lesser known tunes (or unknown outside the area), and sets of words and tunes that I've only heard there.

12 days of Christmas

The explanation given still seems like complete tosh to me (apart from the rather over-stated anti-Catholic laws - do people in the the USA actually believe that?). So why would apostles be pipers piping, for example? Or Jesus Christ a partridge in a pear tree? Can anyone see any connection? It all seems a bit contrived to me (a bit like Deck o' Cards)

Les from Hull


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: sophocleese
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 08:29 AM

Oneof my favourites is O Men From the Hills, I think that's what it's called. I like to sing it with The Angel Gabriel (most highly flavoured lady). A few years ago my husband got me the Oxford Carols for Choirs 1, 2, 3, and 4 so I could learn descants to many carols. I found some lovely things in there. I like a lot of the standards too, they are fun to sing.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mg
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 11:16 AM

how about Christmas Rose...does anyone know where that came from? And Bing Crosby singing Adeste Fideles...mg


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,oggie
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:58 PM

Benjamin Britten 'A Ceremony of Carols' - A set of medieval carols for (ideally) boys voices and harp. Superb listening.

All the best

Steve


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: NightWing
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:35 PM

Though I'm not a Christian, I love singing. Doesn't matter what. One of my favorite kinds of songs is the carol with a descant line. When I was younger, I used to be able to handle the formal, full tenor range; my mother is a soprano. Singing carols in church or while wassailing we used to trade off the descant part while the rest of the singers would keep the melody and harmonies going.

WOW!!

BB,
NightWing

P.S. LOTS of the songs mentioned here I've never heard of. I'll have to dig some of them up. But I will say -- with a bit of a mischievous smile -- I saw several mentioned that are actually rather pagan: e.g. Holly and the Ivy.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 05:48 PM

I'm not trying to argue here, but when something is borrowed or even stolen - as many pagans claim the date of Christmas and many Christmas traditions have been by the Christian church, how long before those traditions become "legitamate" in their new setting? it's been 1400 years more or less for the date. several hundred at least for the use of the Holly and the Ivy.

And I will point out that Christian symbolism can explain all the phrases found in the lyrics of Holly and the Ivy"


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 08:56 PM

Mary- Yes, tis I, enjoying the Solstice, Christmas and New Year at home for a change. Singing carols with just the family... thanks for the lift!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:43 PM

GUEST Jean Ritchie wrote: Liland- If "sun" IS a change, I vote that it's a good one. The whole of that chorus is addressed to the Star: Brightest and best of the suns of the morning, Dawn on our darkness and lend us thine aid; Star in the east, the horizon adorning, Guide where our infant Redeemer is laid.

Liland: The imagery Heber was using comes from Job 38:7 (among other texts) where the morning stars are personified as sons of God:
"When the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy"
(the normal rules of Hebrew poetic parallelism indicate that the two expressions are to be taken as synonymous).
Jean: Also- the "Son of the morning" was (is?), I think, Lucifer!
Liland: There seems to be a certain amount of competition between the forces of light and darkness (which is which, anyhow?) over their spheres of influence. "This is my Father's world" - "the earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof" - yet Satan is "the Prince of this world" etc. (The potential identity/antithesis of the pair Earth|World is an interesting exegetical exercise.) In the "Russian Carols" thread mousethief brought up an Orthodox text in which it sure looked to me like the hymnodist was giving full credit to Caesar Augustus's claim to divinity (I'm not saying I was reading it right, just that that's how it looked to me.) Anyhow, "Lucifer" etymologically is "Lightbearer", which may make one wonder about Wesley's Christ - "Light and life to all he brings". Remember what Solomon said in 1 Kings 8:12:

"The LORD has set the sun in the heavens,

but has said that He would dwell in thick darkness."

There's a lot of this sort of way-too-convoluted-to-interpret-easily equivalence in both the Biblical text and the Christian symbolic tradition. For me the most mindboggling one, I think, is where the crowd insists that instead of Jesus of Nazareth Pilate should free "Jesus Barabbas"; "Barabbas", as even a nodding acquaintance with Aramaic tells us, means "son of the father". So we have here a pitting of our "real" Jesus against a robber called "Jesus son of the father".

Jean: Loved your song about the five historical ladies- certainly something to think on...
Thanks!

Liland


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Subject: RE: URL corrections
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM

mouldy,
Here are the corrected links to illustrate the tunes for "It came upon the midnight clear": CAROL and NOEL respectively in my Esperanto hymnal.)
Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: pastorpest
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 09:45 PM

I like many carols and it would be hard to pick favourites. Three that I am singing this year are "Sleep, Holy Babe", "Some children See Him", and very new one (cannot remember the songwriters) "Like a Rose in Winter".


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:02 PM

sophocleese: flavoured? (and Gabriel's a guy, insofar as one can assign angels gender).

re: Holly & Ivy: how long ago and/or in what dialect of English was "choir" rhymed with "deer"? Certainly in present-day Standard American English (which of course we Seattleites speak in its purest form) "choir" is a homophone of "quire", but nowhere near a rhyme for "deer"; are there folks out there who say "choir" as a homophone of "queer"?

re: Christian expropriation of pagan oddments: Some time back in a different thread (I've actually forgotten where), I offered Mudcat my "Sol Invictus" carol, to Frère Jacques:
Sol Invictus, Sol Invictus
What a guy*, what a guy*,
Lets us use his birthday
to remember Jesus.
Thank you, Sol! Thank you, Sol!

* "god" may be substituted for "guy",
depending on one's theology or taste
Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Susan A-R
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 10:06 PM

Jean, I was just thinking of brightest and best. I'll have to re-learn it over the holidays. I used to sing with a sacred harp group up here in New England which did it with a great harmony., (Believe it was the Star of the East tune.) There are also some amazing West Gallery carols. Those folks knew how to ROCK!!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,jp@folklife.net
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:00 AM

Dear Mary, Liland, and anyone else that's wondering,

This is Jon Pickow, Jean's son. We've discussed this thread around the house for the last few days. She is indeed "the real Jean Ritchie." No one that I know of has posted under her name.

Regarding "Brightest and Best," the "Sons" v. "Suns" issue got me to thinking. Clearly the poetry points toward "suns" if taken in context, but still, one wonders about these things. Brightest and Best is a song I've known all of my life, so I've never thought of it in an analytical or scholarly way.

On a whim, I consulted Pope Gregory's legacy; Libre Usualis, the official (now out of print) codification of chant and plainsong used throughout the year in the Catholic Mass (always a great place to start when researching hymnody). Sure enough, in place of the English word "suns" in the chant for lauds at the "Epiphiny of our Lord" is the Latin word: solis, or suns. The Brightest and Best text is surely a transliteration of the text of this chant.

Let me know what you think. Best holiday wishes, Jon Pickow


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:04 AM

Jon, thanks for the research and lest you think us too weird, we have had an instance or two where someone has posted under a well known name purporting to be them. Hedy West posts around here sometimes, but at one point there was an acquaintance of hers using her name and trying to sell bootleg CD's!!! We got that cleared up and we now have the "real" Hedy West, as well as the "real" Sandy and Caroline Paton, Art Thieme, Frank Hamilton, Dan Milner, and others as regulars on the 'Cat. Welcome to the Mudcat to both you and your Mom who gets mentioned and discussed here a lot as she has many admirers around the joint! Run a search on her name and I guarantee you hours of reading. Best to All for a Happy Season.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,wes williams
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:11 AM

I've only just come across this site, but a few days back you people were talking about the various 'old' carol traditions in England. You can find a lot about the Yorkshire/Derbyshire etc area at:

www.sgpublishing.co.uk/gm/vc/vcabout.html

we have a tradition down here in Somerset at Odcombe, near Yeovil ( going at least 150 years) and there are also traditions in Cornwall.

My Favourites: "While Shepherd's" with either the tune from Roadwater, Somerset, or from Thomas Hardy's manuscripts from Dorset.

Liland: Why so many "While Shepherd's"? - I've been told because it was one of the few lyrics allowed to be sung by the Puritans. And I've sung it to lots of diffrent local tunes, probably about 5 as a guess, but there are loads more!

re: Holly & Ivy: how long ago and/or in what dialect of English was "choir" rhymed with "deer"? Down this way, deer has two slurred syllables: 'dee' and 'or',which goes quite well with 'qwy' and 'or'. A lot of regional dialects use a similar two syllable word.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Mary in Kentucky
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:16 AM

Welcome Jean, Jon and Wes,

You'll find lots of wonderful discussions here (and yes, a bit of silliness too) because this is a world-wide community of friends who share a passion for music.

Remember, if the server goes down during the holidays, try the following URL's,

http://loki.mudcat.org
http://ragtime.mudcat.org

Jean, any suggestions for Christmas carols played on the dulcimer? I like something slow, with beautiful chords, where I can also pick a few melody notes. I never tire of Greensleeves, but also love the Appalachian songs.

Also, if y'all join, membership has it's rewards. But this place can be very addicting and time consuming!

Mary


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jon Pickow
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:05 AM

Thanks Spaw for the welcome. We've lurked here for years and only just began to join in the fun.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 11:30 AM

We're glad you decided to join in. The place can get pretty silly at times but the music threads keep coming along too. Hope to see more of all of you!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:14 PM

Wes,

Yeah, "While Shepherds Watched" is from the Tate & Brady psalter, which meant that unlike most of the Christmas texts then popular it was kosher for the Puritans and sundry Separatists. That does help to explain its popularity (though its date, 1700-1702, makes it too recent to have had a vogue when the Puritans were actually in a position to enforce such things). In the US in my experience the Handel tune CHRISTMAS is overwhelmingly the best known for it; WINCHESTER OLD is almost as common in hymnals but much less so in sung usage.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:16 PM

Wes,

Yeah, "While Shepherds Watched" is from the Tate & Brady psalter, which meant that unlike most of the Christmas texts then popular it was kosher for the Puritans and sundry Separatists. That does help to explain its popularity (though its date, 1700-1702, makes it too recent to have had a vogue when the Puritans were actually in a position to enforce such things). In the US in my experience the Handel tune CHRISTMAS is overwhelmingly the best known for it; WINCHESTER OLD is almost as common in hymnals but much less so in sung usage.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:25 PM

Les from Hull wrote:

12 days of Christmas

The explanation given still seems like complete tosh to me (apart from the rather over-stated anti-Catholic laws - do people in the the USA actually believe that?).
I don't know. My guess is most people in the USA never thought about the subject. But there the Presbyterians were, promulgating it as if gospel... so I just copied their assertions. I do think it's an interesting piece, however improbable as history.
So why would apostles be pipers piping, for example? Or Jesus Christ a partridge in a pear tree? Can anyone see any connection? It all seems a bit contrived to me (a bit like Deck o' Cards)
I agree. A few make sense (geese a-laying for creation, and calling [tho should be collie, which makes less sense but better Catholicism] birds for the evangelists), but most seem quite arbitrary and like it must have been harder to teach the mnemonic than the theology ;-)
Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:31 PM

Of course the crowning touch is that the origins of the "12 Days of Christmas" are FRENCH.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: mousethief
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:39 PM

Plus too, "eleven" was NEVER a number of apostles that was memorized or quoted. The absense of Judas was very temporary, and immediately filled. "The Twelve" in Orthodoxy always means exactly one group: the apostles. I defy anybody to find "eleven" in any ancient or medieval source as a number of apostles.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:41 PM

Well, so are the Catholics ;-)

by which I mean that during the period when the English Catholics really were being persecuted, which was of much shorter duration than the Presbyterian program notes suggest, English Catholicism as an institution (seminary training, etc.) was centered in France, in Douai, and Rheims, and Rouen, I think (hence the 1582-1609 Douay-Rheims Bible that was long the King James of the Romanists). That continued even after the outright persecution had waffled into discrimination, which is i.a. why John Wade was in France when he did Adeste Fideles.

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: MMario
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 04:43 PM

Evidently the "five golden rings" in the older french versions are refering to pheasants...making all of the first seven gifts birds...I've seen versions with other animals - bulla a-roaring, deer a-leaping, etc.

And I've heard renditions where "A partridge in a pear tree" was " a piece of a juniper bough"


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:20 PM

When we were little, Dad used to dance the baby one round the room on Christmas Day (we were desperately "waiting" for dinner)- and sing-chant: Twelve days a-Christmas, sent my sweetheart Twelve studs a-squealin, Eleven bulls a-bellerin, Ten hares a-runnin, Nine cows a-roarin, Eight maids a-waitin, Seven swans a-swimmin, Six geese a-layin, Five goldy rings, Four colly birds, Three French hens Two turkle-doves- AND A PATTERGE IN A PEAR-BUSH!

On the last line, the child would be swung up into the air with a great shout. I guess this must be a "farm" version of the song. It's described in more detail in the book, Singing Family of the Cumberlands(UK Press)

Mary- Why not, "Brightest and Best?" Beautiful on the dulcimer. Last year I was on a program with The Copper Family, and they were much impressed with it- said the harmonies were very like theirs. Made my day.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 09:36 PM

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one. I didn't explain earlier, I have MS and can't sing, my strumming is not real hard driving fast, so I look for slower songs with beautiful harmonies. I particularly like the Southern Harmony sound.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 08:35 PM

Mary in Kentucky- Another lovely one that's very easy is "Pretty Saro," or maybe you already play that one?

To everyone- Thanks for the welcome; as Jon said, we've been reading along for some time, but I always felt that if I said anything, I'd be "horning in." We're on the road a lot, so won't be talking enough to distress anyone, but it's good to know you're a friendly bunch...


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 08:43 PM

We are proud to have you anytime Jean and I'd love to have your input on other threads too as I'm sure we all would. One of my greatest memories is of being with a small group who played on the same evening as you did in Hindman...about 30 years ago. Listening to you that evening brought a special feeling to me that locked folk music into my life. I told the story somewhere here before, but its nice to say thanks personally.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 07:38 AM

Liland,

WINCHESTER OLD is almost universally used in UK as the tune for "While Shepherds Watched", but there is an increasing use of "Ilkley Moor Baht 'At", probably as a result of increasing media exposure of the South Yorkshire carols tradition. Both that and the 'Sweet Chiming Bells' version were sung at our local folk club last week.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 07:55 AM

I'd like to add my welcome to Jean and Jon. I remember performing in a Christmas Revels in Cambridge, Mass, some years ago, where you (Jean) were the "guest star". It was such a thrill to sit at your feet on stage and hear your songs and stories straight from your own mouth!
I teach elementary music in a public school, and I've always wanted to teach The Holly Tree Carol. Unfortunately, in these benighted days, using phrases like "on the day our Lord was born" is a bit risky- sounds too much like I'm not separating Church and state. I can mention Christmas, but the fine line gets a bit thin here. Is it ok if I change it to "on Christmas day in the morn?" I hate to water down anything like that, but I do want the children to know the song and you!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 11:54 AM

Jean, "Pretty Saro" is one of my all time favorites. I know it as "Hard is the Fortune." We discussed it in this thread. [http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15862#144827]

I have your Dulcimer Book and have played it in there. I just wish I could still sing! That would surely be one I'd sing over and over!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 03:26 PM

Animaterra- "Christmas Day in the Morn," is a good substitution (better than the change made-without asking- in one of the hymnals printing, "Now is the Cool of the Day-" starting with "My Lord He said unto me." It was changed to, "My lord, he/she said unto me...")

Also want to explain that I titled the song, "The Holly Carol," leaving out the "tree" in deference to the old song. It seems impossible- ASCAP, the Harry Fox Agency, everyone who has ever recorded or sung the song, INSISTS on calling it, "The Holly Tree Carol." I'm very sorry- I should have called it something entirely different, like, "The Little Holly Tree," but it's too late now!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 03:33 PM

Spaw, do you know that I STILL go to Hindman for that same Family Folk Week you remembered? I guess it's just part of my life now. Hindman is only about 25 miles from Viper where I was born & raised, and where we still gather for family reunions. Our log house is there. I'm curious as to what group you were a part of, 30 years ago! Thanks for your welcome.


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 04:24 PM

Jean, I wish I could find the story I told about this here, but I have about 9000 posts (literally) here on the 'Cat and if I CAN find it I'll link it! We were a small group of friends who had met and played together at Berea College and we did a few "fests" and things during and after that time. We never really "billed" ourselves as anything too consistently, but I know we used the Berea Firehouse Five for awhile! That came from the fact that Berea had closed its student run fire department and the college set up a "Coffee House" in the fire station where we played informally about every night for awhile. I think the college thought that if they opened a coffee house it might slow down a few of the more radical types by giving us somewhere to go.......this was in the late sixties, and I guess it kinda' worked a bit too!!!

Jean, some of us have messaged back and forth and we are so happy to have you dropping by. Generally, we start a thread for new members to give them a welcome and I'd really like a few others to know you've dropped in among us. We did the same with Hedy West and Frank Hamilton and Margaret MacArthur and others......Would you mind? Let's face it, you are a true legend and many of us have seen you a lot over the years so I know they'd enjoy saying Hi and thanks. Besides, it would give you another thread to check in on (of course you can post to any you want to).

For instance, I'd like to know some more about Edna. I have a tape of a field recording that Sandy Paton' Folk-Legacy Records did and I enjoy it tremendously. Her "Ritchie Family Voice" is obvious and I have said several times that her use of a dulcimer as a highlight is beautiful. Nothing fancy, but it brings out both the beauty of the instrument and her voice as well. Its a great example.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Jean
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 08:00 PM

Spaw- I think your offer'd be a good idea, since we're off on a tangent here from "Favorite Religious Christmas Carols!" Thanks for the background on your group. I'll be pretty scarce for the next few days, but will be looking in again soon. Merry Christmas to all!


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 08:15 PM

Click Here for Welcome Thread

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 09:46 PM

The Epiphany mentioned in Jon's citation on Brightest and Best is celebrated on Jan. 6, the traditional Old Christmas. Guest Jean Ritchie gives a delightful account of that holiday in "Singing Family of the Cumberlands." Cherry Tree Carol's last verse uses the Jan. 6 date. The fiddle tune "Breaking Up Christmas" was traditionally played on Jan. 6. Are there other Old Christmas/Epiphany songs worth a listen?


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Alice
Date: 23 Dec 00 - 10:40 PM

Favorites for me:
Gesu Bambino (When blossoms flowered mid the snows..)
Enniscorthy Carol
I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day

(Hi, Jean)

Alice


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Eluned
Date: 24 Dec 00 - 12:47 AM

I just wanted to say that I have been enjoying the treat of reading this thread. I don't get out on the internet much anymore, but had promised myself I'd drop in here at MudCat around Christmas as a gift to myself.
Oh, and Holly and the Ivy (X-ian or Pagan, it's still lovely), DEFinitely the Coventry Carol, and Angel We Have Heard on High are alltime favorites of mine, the ones that fall in religious categories.
Not to pick a fight or anything, but even if it is pagan (though I'm not saying it is, nor that it isn't), Holly and the Ivy will still qualify for this thread....
So ... Happy Holidays, everyone!!!!
The mostly absent
Eluned


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Haruo
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 03:14 AM

Mary in Kentucky: Thanks for the link (and thanks to Jean for bringing the song up) to the Pretty Saro thread (I know it best in its Wagoner's Lad version as Joan Baez did it; I did an Esperanto version but haven't posted it yet (basically because I've misplaced it), titled "La Juna Charist'".

Those who've mentioned "I heard the bells on Christmas Day", do all of you sing it to "Waltham", and if not, to what? And did you know Longfellow wrote the lyrics during the (US) Civil War, and there are two stanzas (originally 4 & 5) that are rarely if ever sung, that were direct references to the War (the whole song, of course, is an antiwar carol in a general way):

Then from each black, accursed mouth
The cannon thundered in the South,
And with the sound the carols drowned
Of peace on earth, good will to men.

It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
And made forlorn, the households born
Of peace on earth, good will to men.

The whole text (though not in order) and the tunes are in The Cyber Hymnal (which just moved for the second time this month, hopefully the last time!

Liland


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Dec 00 - 10:44 PM

Who stole my Foo...Raammm...Chooo?


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: John P
Date: 26 Dec 00 - 08:42 AM

Some favorites:

Salutation of the Angel (this has the same tune as "Bring Us In Good Ale")
Babe of Bethlehem
Pat-a-pan
Personent Hodie
Star of the East
Blessed Be That Maid Marie (This is almost the same tune as "Staines Morris")
La Marche des Rois
Ballade de Jesus-Christ
Noel Nouvelet
Entre le boeuf et l'ane gris
Gloria Ad Modem Tubae (wild and wonderful 15th century cannon)
The Angel Gabriel From Heaven Came

A couple of these (the first and the last) are Annunciation songs -- maybe we should get together in March to sing those? I like Mary's quite understandable surprise at the news that she is pregnant. From "Salutation of the Angel":

By what manner should I child bear, the which, ever a maid,
Have lived chaste all my life past, and never man assayed?

John


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: GUEST,Argenine
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 01:09 AM

All three verses of O Holy Night.  (I prefer the meaning of the English lyrics, but I love the sound of the original French version --Cantique de Nöel--, which is from about the 15th C., I think.)

Riu, Riu, Chiu

Virgin Mary  (as sung by Carolyn Hester)

There's A Song In The Air  (a hymn that was always in our Baptist Hymnal when I was growing up).  The first verse goes:

There's a song in the air, there's a star in the sky,
There's a mother's deep prayer and a baby's low cry,
And the star rains its fire while the beautiful sing,
And the manger of Bethlehem cradles a king.

It Came Upon The Midnight Clear   -- especially the verse that goes:

Still thro' the cloven skies they come, with peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heav'nly music floats o'er all the weary world.
Above its sad and lonely plain they bend on hov'ring wing,
And ever o'er its Babel sounds the blessed angels sing!

Es Ist Ein' Ros' Entsprungen   (Lo, How A Rose E'er Blooming)  -- this is so pretty auf Deutsch!

Liland, Thanks for posting Longfellow's oft-omitted verses. There is a fuller discussion of his poem, and how it came to be the carol we know, in another thread here at Mudcat (from sometime this fall.)


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Genie
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:17 PM

For beautiful harmonies, I love
The First Nöel
Silent Night and
Angels We Have Heard On High

Other religious favorites:
Mary's Boy Child
Virgin Mary (Had A Little Baby)
What Child Is This?
God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen
There's A Song In The Air
Go Tell It On the Mountain
Ave Maria; Cantique de Nöel
Stille Nacht (Noche de Paz)
Gesu, Bambino
Es Ist Ein' Ros'
Still, Still, Still
Mary, Did You Know?
Follow, Now, O Shepherds

Genie


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Brían
Date: 04 Dec 01 - 09:39 PM

Ther is no Rose of Swych Virtu

Don Oíche Úd i mBetheil

Brían


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Subject: RE: Favorite religious Christmas music
From: Genie
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 03:35 AM

A beautiful carol that no one has mentioned is "The Hills Are Bare At Bethlehem." I would like to get the full lyrics to that, if anyone has them.

Another pretty German carol is "Joseph, Lieber." A version of that one is in "Rise Up Singing."

Genie


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Subject: LyrAdd: THE HILLS ARE BARE AT BETHLEHEM
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Dec 01 - 04:44 AM

THE HILLS ARE BARE AT BETHLEHEM

The hills are bare at Bethlehem,
No future for the world they show;
Yet here new life begins to grow,
From earth's old dust a greenwood stem.

The stars are cold at Bethlehem,
No warmth for those beneath the sky;
Yet here the radiant angels fly,
and joy burns new, a fi'ry gem.

The heart is tired at Bethlehem,
No human dream unbroken stands;
Yet here God comes to mortal hands,
And hope renewed cries out: "Amen!"

--Royce J. Scherf (1929); tune: PROSPECT (Southern Harmony)

~Masato


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Subject: Add: HOW FAR FROM HOME?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 02:19 PM

Here is one we are working on for this Advent season.

~Susan

=========================================================

HOW FAR FROM HOME?
Words: Annie R. Smith, 1853.
Music: "Tis Midnight Hour," from a song by that name, by an anonymous composer.


How far from home? I asked, as on
I bent my steps-- the watchman spake:
"The long, dark night is almost gone,
The morning soon will break.
Then weep no more, but speed thy flight,
With Hope's bright star thy guiding ray,
Till thou shalt reach the realms of light,
In everlasting day."

I asked the warrior on the field;
This was his soul inspiring song:
"With courage bold, the sword I'll wield,
The battle is not long.
Then weep no more, but well endure
The conflict, till thy work is done;
For this we know, the prize is sure,
When victory is won."

I asked again; earth, sea and sun
Seemed, with one voice, to make reply:
"Time's wasting sands are nearly run,
Eternity is nigh.
Then weep no more-with warning tones,
Portentous sights are thickening round,
The whole creation, waiting, groans,
To hear the trumpet sound."

Not far from home! O blessèd thought!
The traveler's lonely heart to cheer;
Which oft a healing balm has brought,
And dried the mourner's tear.
Then weep no more, since we shall meet
Where weary footsteps never roam-
Our trials past, our joys complete,
Safe in our Father's home.


SIMPLEST CHORDS:
How (A)far from home? I (D)asked, as (A)on
I (E7)bent my steps-- the (A)watchman spake:
"The (A)long, dark night is (D)almost (A)gone,
The (E7)morning soon will (A)break.
Then (E7)weep no more, but (A)speed thy flight,
With (E7)Hope's bright star thy (A)guiding ray,
Till thou shalt reach the (D)realms of (A)light,
In (E7)everlasting (A)day."


SOURCE:
Cyberhymnal, including TUNE.

@religious @hymns @Christmas @Advent


SH


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 08:21 PM

My favorite Christmas music is Handel's Messiah. As for carols - Good King Wenceslas and O Come All Ye Faithful top the list.


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 03:26 PM

Yep, I'm real partial to Messiah too. There are some 16th century German carols I like such as
  • Es ist ein Ros entsprungen, and
  • Josef Lieber, Josef Mein
Some 19th century carols which also happen to be in German that I like are
  • Stille Nacht
  • Nun ist sie Erschienen
  • O du seelige

Jim


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: GUEST,Amy
Date: 12 Dec 01 - 04:54 PM

Donna Nobis Pacem

Handel's Messiah

Adam Lay He Bounden


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Subject: LyrAdd: Good News-Goodtime Band C'mas '02 Songbook
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:00 PM

Some of these are in the DT or threads, but these are our own versions. Will post chords for individual songs by request. PM me for info on sound files and printed chord arrangements.

~Susan

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AWAY IN A MANGER

Away in a manger, no crib for a bed,
The little Lord Jesus laid down His sweet head.
The stars in the sky looked down where He lay,
The little Lord Jesus, asleep in the hay.

The cattle are lowing, the Baby awakes,
But little Lord Jesus, no crying He makes;
I love Thee, Lord Jesus, look down from the sky
And stay by my cradle till morning is nigh.

Be near me, Lord Jesus, I ask Thee to stay
Close by me forever, and love me, I pray;
Bless all the dear children in Thy tender care,
And fit us for heaven to live with Thee there.


ANGELS WE HAVE HEARD ON HIGH

Angels we have heard on high, sweetly singing o'er the plain,
And the mountains in reply, echoing their joyous strain.

Refrain:
Gloria, in excelsis Deo! Gloria, in excelsis Deo!

Shepherds, why this jubilee? Why your joyous strains prolong?
What the joyful tidings be which inspire your heavenly song?

Come to Bethlehem and see Christ Whose birth the angels sing;
Come, adore on bended knee, Christ the Lord, the newborn King.

See Him in a manger laid, Whom the choirs of angels praise;
Holy Spirit, lend your aid, while our hearts in love we raise.


BEAUTIFUL STAR OF BETHLEHEM
From the Max Hunter Collection. As sung by Mr. J. W. Breazeal, Springfield, Missouri on April 27, 1958. Edited by Susan O. Hinton.   

O, beautiful star of Bethlehem, shining afar thru shadows dim,
Giving your light for those who long have gone.
And guiding the wise men on their way, unto the place where Jesus lay.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

Refrain:
O, beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine upon us until the glory dawn.
O, give us thy light to light the way into the land of perfect day.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

O, beautiful star of hope, of light, guiding the pilgrims through the night
Over the mountain till the break of dawn.
And into the light of perfect day it will give out a lovely ray.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!

O, beautiful star, the hope of rest for the redeemed, the good, the bless'd,
Yonder in glory when the crown is won,
For Jesus is now that star divine, brighter and brighter, He will shine.
Beautiful star of Bethlehem, shine on!


BEAUTIFUL STARS
Isaac Freeman version edited and additional verses by Susan O. Hinton.

Beautiful stars of love, shining from heaven above,
Leading the world to look that way.
Radiance is the glow over the earth below,                
Cheering me on... to perfect day.                

Refrain:
Stars... of wondrous love....
Shining.... shining from above.
Filling the earth with light, scattering gloom at night.        
Beautiful stars of... wondrous love.                

Beautiful stars of grace, flowing from God's holy face,
Lending His light where darkness had reigned.
Warm and sweet as the peace of salvation's release,
Healing the wounded spirits chained.

Beautiful stars of strength, measuring Love's breadth and length,
Made by our Father's hand so long ago.
Marking the Father's time, creation's celestial rhyme,
Ord'ring our time on earth below.


THE BIRTHDAY OF A KING
Words & Music: William H. Neidlinger, 1890.

In the little village of Bethlehem,
There lay a Child one day;
And the sky was bright with a holy light
O'er the place where Jesus lay.

Refrain
Alleluia! O how the angels sang.
Alleluia! How it rang!
And the sky was bright with a holy light
'Twas the birthday of a King.

'Twas a humble birthplace, but O how much
God gave to us that day,
From the manger bed what a path has led,
What a perfect, holy way.


BRIDE OF THE LAMB, AWAKE, AWAKE
Words: Edward Denny, in Hymns for the Poor of the Flock, 1837. Music: "St. Agnes," John B. Dykes, in Hymnal for Use in the English Church, by John Grey, 1866.

Bride of the Lamb, awake, awake!
Why sleep for sorrow now?
The hope of glory, Christ, is thine,
A child of glory thou.

Thy spirit, through the lonely night,
From earthly joy apart,
Hath sighed for One that's far away;
The Bridegroom of thy heart.

But see! the night is waning fast,
The breaking morn is near;
And Jesus comes, with voice of love,
Thy drooping heart to cheer.

He comes; for oh, His yearning heart
No more can bear delay;
To scenes of full unmingled joy
To call His bride away.

Then weep no more; 'tis all thine own
His crown, His joy divine;
And, sweeter far than all beside,
He, He Himself is thine!


THE FIRST NOEL

The first Noel the angel did say
Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay;
In fields where they lay keeping their sheep,
On a cold winter's night that was so deep.

Refrain
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel! Born is the King of Israel.

They lookèd up and saw a star
Shining in the east, beyond them far;
And to the earth it gave great light,
And so it continued both day and night.

This star drew nigh to the northwest,
Over Bethlehem it took its rest;
And there it did both stop and stay,
Right over the place where Jesus lay.

Then entered in those Wise Men three,
Full reverently upon their knee,
And offered there, in His presence,
Their gold and myrrh and frankincense.


THE FRIENDLY BEASTS

Jesus our Saviour kind and good
Was humbly born in a stable of wood.
And the friendly beasts around Him stood,
Jesus our Saviour kind and good

"I," said the donkey shaggy and brown,
"I carried His mother up hill and down.
I carried her safely to Bethlehem town.
I," said the donkey shaggy and brown.

"I," said the cow, all white and red,
"I gave Him my manger for a bed.
I gave Him my hay for to pillow His head,
I," said the cow, all white and red

"I," said the sheep with the curly horn,
"I gave Him my blanket for a warm.
And he wore my coat on that Christmas morn,
I," said the sheep with the curly horn.

"I," said the dove from the rafters high,
"I cooed Him to sleep so He would not cry.
We cooed Him to sleep, my mate and I,
I," said the dove from the rafters high.

"I," said the camel, all yellow and black,
"Over the desert upon my back,
I brought Him a gift in the wise men's pack,
I," said the camel, all yellow and black

Thus every beast remembering it well
In the stable dark was so proud to tell
Of the gifts they gave Emmanuel,
The gifts they gave Emmanuel.


GENTLE MARY LAID HER CHILD
Words: Joseph Simpson Cook, 1919. Music: "Tempus Adest Floridum," from Piae Cantiones, 1582.

Gentle Mary laid her Child lowly in a manger;
There He lay, the undefiled, to the world a Stranger:
Such a Babe in such a place, can He be the Savior?
Ask the saved of all the race who have found His favor.

Angels sang about His birth; wise men sought and found Him;
Heaven's star shone brightly forth, glory all around Him:
Shepherds saw the wondrous sight, heard the angels singing;
All the plains were lit that night, all the hills were ringing.

Gentle Mary laid her Child lowly in a manger;
He is still the undefiled, but no more a stranger:
Son of God, of humble birth, beautiful the story;
Praise His Name in all the earth, hail the King of glory!


IN THE BLEAK MIDWINTER

In the bleak midwinter, frosty wind made moan,
Earth stood hard as iron, water like a stone;
Snow had fallen, snow on snow, snow on snow,
In the bleak midwinter, long ago.

God, heaven cannot hold Him, nor earth sustain;
Heaven and earth shall flee away when He comes to reign.
In the bleak midwinter a stable place sufficed
The Lord God Almighty, Jesus Christ.

Angels and archangels may have gathered there,
Cherubim and seraphim thronged the air;
But His mother only, in her maiden bliss,
Worshipped the beloved with a kiss.

What can I give Him, poor as I am?
If I were a shepherd, I would bring a lamb;
If I were a Wise Man, I would do my part;
Yet what I can give Him: give my heart.


IT CAME UPON THE MIDNIGHT CLEAR

It came upon the midnight clear, that glorious song of old,
From angels bending near the earth, to touch their harps of gold;
Peace on the earth, good will to men, from heaven's all gracious King.
The world in solemn stillness lay, to hear the angels sing.

Still through the cloven skies they come with peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heavenly music floats o'er all the weary world;
Above its sad and lowly plains, they bend on hovering wing,
And ever over its Babel sounds the blessèd angels sing.

For lo! the days are hastening on, by prophets seen of old,
When with the ever circling years shall come the time foretold;
When the new heaven & earth shall own the Prince of Peace their King
And the whole world send back the song which now the angels sing.


THE KING OF LOVE
Statler Brothers version.

Jesus came, there He lay, in a manger of hay.
The angels sang; the shepherds came, they knew not what the future held.
They only knew they were compelled. From up above,
A baby boy, the King of love.

Refrain:
He was a child, He was the Son, He was a man among men.
He was a friend, He was a saint, He was the King of Love.

Jesus grew, He was a child. He traveled far and distant land,
His earthly parents by the hand. They missed Him now, He did not hide. He told them then, "I must confide;
I was at my Father's side."

Jesus died.... the world was dark. Not a sound was there to hark.
The breath was gone, He bowed His head....But wait! Let us rejoice,
For He has risen from the dead!


SILENT NIGHT

Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright
Round yon virgin mother and Child. Holy Infant, so tender and mild,
Sleep in heavenly peace, sleep in heavenly peace.

Silent night, holy night, shepherds quake at the sight;
Glories stream from heaven afar, heavenly hosts sing Alleluia!
Christ the Savior is born, Christ the Savior is born!

Silent night, holy night; wondrous star, lend thy light;
With the angels let us sing, Alleluia to our King;
Christ the Savior is here, Christ the Savior is here!

Silent night, holy night, Son of God, love's pure light;
Radiant beams from Thy holy face with the dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth, Jesus, Lord, at Thy birth.


WINDS THROUGH THE OLIVE TREES
By Winifred E Rees.

Refrain:
Winds through the olive trees softly did blow,
'Round little Bethlehem long, long ago.

Sheep on the hillside lay whiter than snow,
Shepherds were watching them, long, long ago.

Then from the happy skies angels bent low,
Singing their songs of joy, long, long ago.

For in a manager bed cradled we know,
Christ came to Bethlehem, long, long ago.


THE WISE MAY BRING THEIR LEARNING
Words: Anonymous, in Book of Praise for Children, 1881. Music: "Christmas Morn," Edward J. Hopkins (1818-1901).

The wise may bring their learning, the rich may bring their wealth,
And some may bring their greatness, and some bring strength and health;
We, too, would bring our treasures to offer to the King;
We have no wealth or learning; what shall we children bring?

We'll bring Him hearts that love Him; we'll bring Him thankful praise,
And young souls meekly striving to walk in holy ways;
And these shall be the treasures we offer to the King,
And these are gifts that even the poorest child may bring.

We'll bring the little duties we have to do each day;
We'll try our best to please Him, at home, at school, at play;
And better are these treasures to offer to our King;
Than richest gifts without them; yet these a child may bring.


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Subject: Lyr Add: STAR IN THE EAST (Heber/Walker, 1853)
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:11 PM

My favorite song this year is this old shape note song. The chords don't line up exactly where they should below, but they're there anyway.

Star in the East
Words by Reginald Heber, 1811
Music from the "Southern Harmony and Musical Companion" by William Walker, 1853


Dm                           Am
Hail the blest morn, see the great Mediator
Dm            Am       Dm Am    Dm
Down from the region of glory descend
                         Am
Shepherds go worship the Babe in the manger
Dm          Am               Dm Am   Dm
Lo, for His guard the bright angels attend.

(Chorus)
Dm            Am          C          Dm
Brightest and best of the sons of the morning
            Am            C            Am
Dawn on our darkness and lend us Thine aid
Dm                      Am
Star in the east, the horizon adorning
Dm             Am       Dm Am      Dm
Guide where our infant Redeemer was laid.

Cold on His cradle the dewdrops are shining
Low lies His bed with the beasts of the stall.
Angels adore Him in slumber reclining
Wise men and shepherds before Him do fall.

Say, shall we yield Him in costly devotion
Odors of Eden and offering divine
Gems from the mountains and
Pearls from the ocean
Myrrh from the forest and gold from the mine?

Vainly we offer each ample oblation
Vainly with gold we His favor secure
Richer by far is the heart's adoration
Dearer to God are the prayers of the poor.


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: libertarian
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:18 PM

Sinc christmas is supposedly worshipping that myth called christ, that is after all what christmas is named for, you can't have christmas music that is not religious, but you can have holiday music that is not religious. Take this rewritten one.

(to the tune of Silent Night)
Its coming soon,
Christmas night.
Son of God,
Pure bull shite.
A holiday built upon pa-agan dates.
Christians thought Yule Time,
Was the-eirs to take.
They're celebrating a li-ie!
Despite their great faith we all die.
A carol by insane4reason

insane4reason is in Yahoo if you want to contact him.


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: mg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:15 PM

thank you libertarian, but I will pass, as I would pass on peoples' ceremonies that were not of interest to me. But I would be respectful of what was important and beautiful to them.

mg


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Burke
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:17 PM

One of my favorites is Oxford also in the Sacred Harp.

Here's the music

Tune: John Massengale, Juvenile Harmony, 1859
Lyrics: Isaac Watts, 1707
Meter: Common Meter Double (8,6,8,6,8,6,8,6)

Shepherds, rejoice! lift up your eyes,
And send your fears away:
News from the regions of the skies --
A Savior's born today!
Jesus, the God whom angels fear,
Comes down to dwell with you...
Today He makes His entrance here,
But not as monarchs do.

No gold nor purple swaddling bands,
Nor royal shining things,
A manger for His cradle stands,
And holds the King of kings.
Go, shepherds, where the infant lies,
And see His humble throne,
With tears of joy in all your eyes,
Go shepherds, kiss the Son.


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Subject: RE: Favorite Religious Christmas Music, II
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:33 PM

Praetorius Christmas Mass, esp the "In Dulce Jubilo" bit. (Think I said this last year too!)


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