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help: Moby Dick shanty thread?

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greg stephens 14 Jun 02 - 03:06 AM
greg stephens 14 Jun 02 - 03:50 AM
Joe Offer 14 Jun 02 - 04:07 AM
fat B****rd 14 Jun 02 - 04:44 AM
kendall 14 Jun 02 - 09:31 AM
GUEST,Nick 14 Jun 02 - 10:29 AM
nutty 14 Jun 02 - 10:58 AM
Dead Horse 14 Jun 02 - 03:11 PM
GUEST 14 Jun 02 - 06:03 PM
nutty 14 Jun 02 - 06:10 PM
Greg B 14 Jun 02 - 10:19 PM
Coyote Breath 15 Jun 02 - 01:28 AM
fat B****rd 15 Jun 02 - 04:40 AM
greg stephens 24 Jul 02 - 06:15 PM
greg stephens 25 Jul 02 - 05:01 AM
Dead Horse 25 Jul 02 - 03:07 PM
Irish sergeant 25 Jul 02 - 03:47 PM
EBarnacle1 26 Jul 02 - 11:53 AM
Dead Horse 29 Jul 02 - 03:04 PM
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Subject: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:06 AM

There was a recent thread that discussed, among other things, sea songs used in the Moby Dick film. My indifferent searching capabilities have not led me to it, and I cant remember the title. Could any kind soul point me to it, with a blue clicky, PM, post the title or whatever? Thanks a lot.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:50 AM

To be more specific, in case there are loads of Moby Dick threads, it was a discussion about whether whalers sang when rowing towards the whale.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 04:07 AM

Hi, Greg - I put Moby in the Filter and came up with this thread (click). Is it the one?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 04:44 AM

Hi Greg. I recall this one but am crap at finding old threads. I believe A.L. LLoyd (Bert to his friends) put the shanties together. He used "Blood Red Roses" and a shanty called (I think) "Heave Away, My Johnny". Also "A Dead Whale Or A Stove Boat" is mentioned but not sung. More information should be forthcoming from the thousands of Catters who are better informed than myself. Hope this is of some use. fB


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 09:31 AM

I never killed a whale, but, I have rowed a boat; a big 9 man lifeboat. Believe me you have little breath for singing. Maximum pulling power was obtained by the cox'n saying "Stroke, stroke, stroke." He kept the rhythm, but did not sing.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 10:29 AM

I bought a record ( yes record) called 'BLOW Boys Blow" and when I watching Moby I recognised the voice. There were a couple of songs from the album in the movie as I recall. I THINK ONE was "Patty Doyle" dont recall the others, but they do sing "A rovin'" in Moby but that is not a shanty.

As for sining while rowing out to a whale it seems unlikly, it would probably scare the whale. A shanty is associated with hauling ropes, manning the pumps etc


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: nutty
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 10:58 AM

In the recent cartoon version of Moby Dick, the shanty singer was Johnny Collins


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:11 PM

The thread was called "Lyric Req: Paddy Doyle"
Dunno about clicky fings, but I set the filter for *7 days* and there it were. And I still say you canny sneak up on a whale. Modern whale catchers would still be sail driven if that was the case, and the harpoon guns would be fitted with silencers!!!!!
AND the lookout would have to WHISPER "Thar she blows"


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:03 PM

I know Bert sang in the film, but wasn't Edric Connor the main singer?


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: nutty
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:10 PM

Not a shanty but a different version of the Greenland Fishery in the Broadside in the Bodleian Library ......... unfortunately there is no date given

CLICK HERE TO VIEW


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jun 02 - 10:19 PM

There's rowing and there's rowing. Rowing freely, for speed, indeed it is rather hard to sing. However, I'd posit that it's a different thing entirely if you're dragging a dead whale back to the ship.

The mate of the boat would cut the tendons in the whale's flippers so that the whale could be towed, backwards. Nonetheless, you were probably good for about a knot. At such slow speeds, the rowing is not stroke----stroke but rather pull..............pull................. and the speed suits something like 'Go to Sea No More.'

You're not going to get yourself into a state of winded because you have too long to row and too far to go to do so. Slow and steady, that's the way.

Similar for rowing a piece in a skiff. You don't make like it's Harvard vs. Yale. About the speed of 'Yeah Ho, Little Fishies' suits just fine, and you can be happy after five miles at that rate.

One would guess that in such a situation, the boat-steerer would take on role of chanteyman.

A rowing/singing scene I found touching was when Antony Hopkins as Lt. Cmdr. Bligh rowed off from the Bounty, with the lads singing 'The Water is Wide.'


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:28 AM

awww, and I thought you meant a rough dwelling for the poor thing! ain't it chanty? as in chanson? or something? Damn, I got old quick!

CB


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 04:40 AM

Quite right, Guest, Edric Connor can be heard (and seen) magnicently singing "Heave away" and leading his boat crew chanting "Hill and Gully Rider" which phrase also crops up on the Tarriers version of "The Banana Boat Song"


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 06:15 PM

In this thread, and the previous thread (called "Lyric req:Paddy Doyle", sorry no blue clickie):there was a discussion about whether whalers sang while rowing after whales, and whether this would scare the whales off or not. Dead Hore was damant that noise wouldnt scare whales like this, but everybody was arguing theoretically. Well, bingo, I suddenly found some evidence. Dead Horse is dead right. Singingis not a problem, and people do it. "In search of Moby Dick" by Tim Severin. Describing modern whaling, by anceient methods, in Lamalera, island of Lembata, Indonesia. First hedescribes the boats rowing while looking for awhale, while singing. The some wind arrives, and they hoist sail, still looking for whale. When they spot one, they lower sail and row: "I saw the assistant harpooner pass forward the long bamboo lance. From the rack of bamboo poles he had selected the stout, heavier pole that is kept for whale attack,and had fitted thebig whale harpoonhead The harpooner took the lance, raised it high and moved to the end of the projecting harpooner's ladder. He held the weapon with his left hand about five feet from the butt of the lance, his right hand close to the end. he brought the tip of the lance forwarddown in a slow arc until it pointed at the whale, and flexed his knees until he stood in a half-crouch. I could see the slight curve in the bamboo shaft as it drooped under the weight of the metal harpoon head. Behind the harpooner his assistant stood up, gesturing withhand signals to the streersman to keep him on course. The paddlers were howling and roaringand chanting the stroke. For a long time the scene held. Then the harpooner judged his distance and struck."

Pretty hard evidence, eh? Those guys knew what they were doing, and they weren't keeping quiet. Dead Horse was right.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 05:01 AM

What happened next is worth passing on, as well:

"He leaped from the boat. He burst upward from the half-crouch and flung himself and flunghimself forward, still holding the lance.Harpoon head,shaft and human were all one single projectile, hurtling through the air. The harpoon travelled forward and down, and for one moment the man looked like a flag attached to the long pole and trailing behind it. The harpoon head head struck the black target of the whale's back, the forward motion stopped, and the harpooner tumbled into the water right beside the thirty-ton animal. It appeared to be a leap of utter madness.
The bamboo shaft was too light to give impetus to the strike, and the harpooner had used his body weight to drive home the harpoon".

How about that, eh? None of your wimpy Nantucketers, just lobbing a harpoon from the safety(?) of a boat! There's a photo in the book of the harpooner standing on the ladder, surrounded by the mist from the whale's spout, ready to jump. He didn't catch the actual jump on film though! Pity.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 03:07 PM

I'd guess the above took place in nice warm waters, none of your Greenland fisheries there. He'd have been frozen ta death in a minute, otherwise.
I'll have to play my video of Moby Dick again to make sure, but I recall no less than three different versions of Paddy Doyle being sung, one while stowing a bunt (heaving up the furled sail to the spar) one as they flayed the whale, and another as they were rowing back to ship, hauling a dead'n. And who said A'Roving aint a shanty? In the film it was sung (and danced to) in the pub when Ishmael met the crew, but Hugill (may his name be revered) gives it as a capstan song, also used at brake windlass and pumps. Then again, you could sing any bloody thing at pumps if the damned job was long enough!


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 03:47 PM

Which "Moby Dick" are we talking about? I am assuming the one starring Patrick Stewart as Ahab or are we talking the Gregory Peck version (Who does a marvelous job as Father Marple by the way in the later version.) neil


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 11:53 AM

As a rower who teaches rowing,"John Kanaka" works well if there are no artistic pauses or elongations. It keeps the crew in and rhythm and lets them come up with couplets that are not part of the tradition simply because most of them are not aware of the tradition.


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Subject: RE: help: Moby Dick shanty thread?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:04 PM

I teach shanty chorus singers, so I guess that could be called *rowing* ! (pronounced the other way, you know, as in *an awful row*, joke, ahhh! forget it!)


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