BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?

Subject: BS: Help? 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:26 PM

http://www.splashfm.net/splash/listings/default.asp

This lot - who are due on air on 5th May - have "lifted" (wholesale) information from our club newsletter which I write. Notwithstanding that obviously the newsletter is for public dissemination - doing it without permission/ acknowledgement or even publicising the club(!) plus ignoring communications from me (for over a month) about it strikes me as a bit rich.

I strongly suspect therefore that they intend to carry on using information sent to them in order to bolster their own programming content without acknowledgement or any editorial control/input .. possibly without even making any feature of the music events listed.

Suggestions have been to "sue" them .. can one do this .. anyone out there any experience of this or similar circumstances.. ??

Admittedly, in the first instance I was flattered .. but getting yer work ripped off (as the file says it's authored by the Station's Administrator) is now p*ssing me off .. especially as they are ignoring the good and hard work put in for the local music scene by many people.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:42 PM

Oops.. link should be Click here and then click on the link to Regular Events around Worthing

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Burke
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:49 PM

Are you in the UK? Go here for government information.

What can I do if my work is used without my permission?

Although you are not obliged to do so it will usually be sensible, and save time and money, to try to resolve the matter with the party you think has infringed your copyright. If you cannot do this, then you may need to go to court. Before doing so, you should consider obtaining legal advice. Courts may grant a range of remedies, such as injunctions (to stop the other person making use of the material), damages for infringement, or orders to deliver up infringing goods. If infringing copies are being imported from outside the European Economic Area, you may ask HM Customs and Excise to stop them.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 08:08 PM

Sure sue them - you might get all of three pence - and a fair price it would be too.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 08:14 PM

That sort of thing is annoying, and I've had the same thing happen; but unless it's an ongoing, wholesale plagiarism there isn't much point in worrying about it. You could always state your case in the newsletter, though, with a note about giving proper acknowledgement if material is to be reproduced.

One small piece of comfort; whoever built the site is such a sad bastard that they actually used MS Word to generate the code, which explains the hideously ghastly design, the fact that it uses frames (best avoided nowadays; admittedly I administer one framed site, but I inherited it) and that it's more-or-less unreadable in older browsers. They ought to employ a professional.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 08:32 PM

Thanks Burke and Malcom,

The Patent Office link is very useful .. especially for the website we are currently constructing   .. potential for ongoing plagiarism bothers me .. and the bit in the newsletter about acknowledgement is a good point ..
Many thanks
H

Guest .. if you put as much effort into your posts as some of us put into working for free to promote live music you might have a point

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 12:22 AM

Hille

If time and effort equaled VALUE - then all the carbon deposits in Wales could repurchase a lost empire

3 pence - thats the highest bid

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 06:10 AM

Tell you what Guest :) PM me your email addy and I'll send you the entire club newsletter! 'Cause, you're not to know that extracting information about the local "scene" is akin to pulling hen's teeth around here .. **g**

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: treewind
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 03:25 AM

If you don't do so already, display a copyright notice on your next newsletter, and an explicit request not to republish without permission (word it however you want). If they do it again, you might have a stronger case, though I believe that in the UK copyright is implicit, unlike the USA where (I could be wrong) it is necessary to assert copyright explicitly.

If you are quite clear that you don't want them to copy and republish your material, I agree with Burke that you should try to sort it out with them directly.

I'd suggest you should follow that course for a while, making sure that you keep copies of all correspondence in case you need it for proof later, and see what happens. Then if they persist, get some legal advice. Our anonymous guest has a point, that you may not get much compenstation by legal action because you have to prove some sort of loss of income. If you are doing this all for free anyway there's no income to lose, unless your newsletter carries adverts and you can show that your are losing advertising revenue.

One possibility is to state in your newsletter what Splash FM are doing. Be careful not to make it libellous, but you can safely state in print that you have not given them permission to use your material.

Anahata

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 04:08 AM

Parasite n. 1. An organism living in or on another and benefiting at the expense of others. 2. A person who lives off or exploits another or others.
This Hille is the definition in my Oxford English dictionary, and I think it applies to the wretch who plagiarised your hard work. It is also a pretty good definition of the phenomenon known as GUEST.

Slainthe.....Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 05:17 AM

Before you consider legal action, you should write to them and ask them to remove your material.

Legal action probably won't do you any good unless you can prove material loss.

If you don't already, include in your newsletter a couple of lines saying that copying without attribution is not permitted.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: nickp
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 05:47 AM

The problem with asking them to remove the info is that to a certain extent you want this info to reach a wider audience. Although it would be really nice and courteous of them if they'd asked (because I'm sure you'd have said 'yes' anyway) and because they might have had the decency to add in details about 'your' events.

I can't see anywhere that it states it's 'their' info although I have only had a quick look and the lack of replies might be attributable to the email not being checked because they're not up and running properly yet.

Whatever the logic, it's rude of them to not approach this in a professional way. As the web site/forthcoming radio setup isn't very helpful, is this sponsored by the local council or similar? If so it could be worth an email there.

Otherwise I'd be inclined until it's up and functioning with 'real' people and an office, go in and talk to them in person and offer them the information regularly updated with the proviso that you get a 'thanks to' on the page.

Good luck, but try not to get too distressed by it.

Nick

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:40 AM

Thanks all, I'll certainly include the disclaimer in the next newsletter .. the Chair and I (of the voluntary Arts group of which the club has become the performing forum wing as it were) are going to get together in a joint repsonse to this because .. we've flogged ourselves stupid for over a year getting the club and fringe festival events high-profile and major enough that (this summer) we have more going on than the main Council-run festival.. if they are going to ignore the "voice" of all those activities ... then it doesn't bode too well for them fulfilling their declaration of involving local groups .. (which was one of the contributary factors in them getting the license in the first place - ahead of the one bidder who was already working hard behind the scenes with pro-active local groups: actually I say groups .. but, in fact .. it's 2 people, the Chair and me, who are attempting anything on a macro-scale in the town!)

HO hum! The town is sort of virgin territory for commercial takeovers in the Arts ... and whilst it would be great to have the involvement of organisations with more financial backing .. my concern is that the genuine creativity which is just starting to blossom will be swamped by more profit-led initiatives ...

Eg., the Council bend over backwards to help commercial organisations and utterly deprive the local community of assistance (The most profitable town in the UK, has an Arts development budget of £4,000 pa, no Arts centre even, yet they have a Cultural expenditure of 7.1million GBP a year (where does that go?) - the Head of Resources suggested that the back room of a pub (which I wouldn't put a dog in) would be a suitable venue for us running community Arts projects!

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:59 AM

According to my attorney wife (who does a bit in intellectual property), the US provides some protection for original work even if copyright is not overtly stated (e.g., using the circled "c" mark or stating that the material is copyrighted). Assertion of copyright provides more protection, and no, you do not have to file with the Copyright Office at the Library of Congress to have some copyright protection.

Not asserting copyright can make it harder to prove your case for being the original author in court if it should come to that, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Marje
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:24 PM

The odd thing is that they haven't used your recent listings, Hille, but an older version. My e-mail address is in there as a contact for a local session, and it's the old one that hasn't been in use since December. You updated your newsletter straight away, so I don't know why they're using an old one. I wonder how much else is wrong in there?

I've sent a rather curt e-mail pointing this out and asking them to remove my e-mail address from their website altogether.

It would be good if you can get them to acknowledge you as their source, but only if they update it, otherwise you'll get blamed putting out for out-of-date information. That's the trouble with webisites, they've got to be kept up to date, and this one has not made a very promising start by using stuff that's already months old before they're even up and running.

But couldn't you turn this to your advantage in some way? You could point out that since they've cribbed your lists, maybe they'd like to follow this up with an interview about some upcoming events, or a broadcast of some local gigs? After all, they say there's no such thing as bad publicity!

Subject: RE: BS: Help 'Intellectual' copyright?
From: Nemesis
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:50 PM

Hi Marje .. yes I pointed out to them that they needed updating .. and they replied "Yes, sorry too busy getting studios ready" (actually, this has been going on for a long long while (just getting steadily ticked off about it as they steadfastly ignore the issue of acknowledgment)

Then I saw in the local that they plan to a have a local bands showcase spot .. and were on the look out .. er, excuse me!!

Anyway, I have inveigled a meeting with the MD - I expect that they have forgotten all about who I am - at my house and will leave the computer screen running while I intrigued him with the 100 and 1 wonderful things we've organised for the Fringe .. but, no he's not having a hard copy without giving something back in return .. if only an assurance of tangible support/stance where local musicians are concerned.

Otherwise, reading between the lines I think they intend to lift editorial material from where they can find it (to fulfil their licensing news remit) squeezed in between wall-wall aural "Pap" music