Singaround etiquette ?

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:34 PM

I try to hold our song circle to not more than 15 or so people. On the other hand, if someone on tour is in town and someone brings her or him up the hill we each grab our own chair and move out of the parlor with the great acoustics and into the two open rooms adjoining where we can accomodate up to 30 people. In a case like that, we have different rules from usual, deferring to the guest artist and those of us who are of that same level. It works out well, and we all get to hear some very good stuff. There's always next week.

On occasion, when we have 5 or 6 regulars here that we all want to hear, some of us will use our turns to request one of them to perform an extra song or tune. People here are pretty mellow.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: PennyBlack
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 09:11 PM

We run one or two sing arounds at Fylde and yes you do get the floorsingers that bob in and out, (especially at the mount session where two sessions are run at the same time) this tends not to be a problem as a "running order" is kept to so everyone gets a fair crack of the whip.

Although we usually start off the session we'll drop out of the circle if their are plenty of people wanting to sing (we're happy of the rest and time to enjoy others making music).

It's easy if someone comes in mid session (NOT mid song) to get their name invite them into the circle and add their name to the list so you can get back to them "in turn".

Never had a problem with Artists wanting to "queue jump" in fact they will often "Pass" if asked to do something and have never asked or would ask them to do more songs than anyone else.

One thing that's nice at Fylde is that most years you have a regular band of singers who come year after year so it's just like a gathering of old friends suplimented by some new friends who will hopefully come back in following years.

I hope we never get too picky though at sing arounds and have to limit everyone to a set time so some performers don't sing longer songs and grab more floor time it is after all supose to be a fun thing to do and we should all enjoy making music together whether singing, playing or listening.

P.S if anyone who enjoys sessions is across in Blackpool, there's a new regular session at The Princess a great venue and the Landlord enjoys the music as well.

and (plug plug) we're at The Steamer in Fleetwood every Tuesday lunch 11.30am to 2.30pm an would love Artists to come along and do the odd set and help raise some cash for ARC. you'll have an audience of 150-300.

PB

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 08:32 PM

"If the set time is ..... then people should be held to it. And the person who takes that long chatting to his neighbour, borrowing a tuner and tuning his guitar should be given hearty applause at the end of the five minutes and be informed that his turn is over."

Actually, Bert, I couldn't agree more.

He should be told he is being applauded for his 'performance', which was very funny, but next time, could he please actually play some music!

The amount of time wasted at some singarounds/sessions is such that several more artists could have a slot, or each artist who sticks to the 'X items' rule (those doing more items than the 'limit' annoys me!) could each have an extra item.

A little discipline in having each artist ready to go on when announced is appreciated by many in the audience. Of course, this 'mucking about' is also appreciated by some - it gives them a chance to duck out for a smoke/coffee.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 08:22 PM

And there should be a time limit for each person. You get some people who sing a three minute song and others regularly go on for fifteen minutes or more.

If fifteen minutes is OK for one performer then it should be the same for everyone.

If the set time is a more reasonable five minutes then people should be held to it. And the person who takes that long chatting to his neighbor, borrowing a tuner and tuning his guitar should be given hearty applause at the end of the five minutes and be informed that his turn is over.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Tyke
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 07:39 PM

Sorry! Sorry! I was unable to get to Cleckheaton this year as Coblers Monday had prior commitments. The Cleckheaton F. F. organisers I know had worked hard all year, as they have done every year, to bring to Cleckheaton some top class artists.
So to all you Singer Round fan's I would just ask you to remember that to keep any festival a float !

There is a need: -

To put bums on seats for the concerts! (Translation for the USA fill the concert halls with paying customers)
To keep the licences happy by having Booked Guests appear at Singer Rounds. (Preferably when they are not going to provide a distraction to putting Bums on seats)

So I would suggest to all singer round fan's that a little understanding of the problems of the Organiser is not a bad idea. An appreciation of the artist who as part of his contract has been sent along to a Singer Round is etiquette.

Yes I do understand the disappointment that is felt when said Artist comes along and sings the song that you were about to sing. What a nerve! And just because he or she wrote it! Flipping Cheek!

As for the Organisers I hope you realize that if it weren't for them you would have no one to mone about no one getting things right or wrong and no Festival. So the next time you meet one or pick up the things you liked or disliked information feed back leaflet, tell them it might help them to, if they can, put things right and keep the things you did like! In short tell them what went wrong and tell them everyone else what went right.

Me I just sorry I missed yet another great value for money Cleckheaton Festival.
Don't get me wrong we had a great time including singing in the Plough Captain Kipper and eight Pirates from Bridlington, Miss Rosy Buttocks from Whitby, Eldoon the Russian Tall Ship, with the unpronocable name, Third Mate and Jim Eldon. But that was just an unplanned happening a spontaneous event for which Whitby is as you know famous.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,Nutty
Date: 05 Jul 04 - 06:05 AM

I am very sad to hear such a great little festival being described in such negative terms.

Cleckheaton represents great value for money .... at £25 for a weekend festival ticket and £2 per person per night for camping it would be hard to find another festival that offers so much for £30 or less.

However, if what is wanted is a FREE weekend with great singarounds and lots of FREE entertainment, then perhaps it might be better to look elsewhere.

Festivals, in order to survive, depend on people buying tickets and/or giving freely of their time.

Year after year, Cleckheaton has consistently given value for money and I'm sure it will do so for many years to come.

As for artists being booked into singarounds .... thats is (generously) arranged to allow everyone (paying and non-paying)an opportunity to see them, they rarely perform for more that 15 mins anyway.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: brid widder
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:15 PM

We're just back from Cleckheaton too... I love the Wickham... and it's one of the reasons I go to Clecky... there are usually at least three separate singarounds in there... maybe more... if one room is full... or miserable... or too noisy...or full of drunken morrismen...or not your style of music... well you just move on through til you find one that suits. Also there are other places for a singaround ..on Saturday evening we went along to The Marsh, two minutes down the road from the Wickham... a belting singaround, unofficial, ably led by McFat and I think discussed on the Cleckheaton thread last week.

The Commercial in usually used for musicians session... but we did pop in there for a short while on saturday afternoon and found a few musicians taking turns... with two guitarists singing when it was their turn... the instrumentalists left... leaving just the two guitarists... who carried on regardless of anyone else in the room, taking turns to sing. One of them said to the other 'it's just you & me then'.... we went back to the Wickham!!

All in all it was a brilliant festival... apart from the rain!!!

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: early
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

millfolk ran the singaround in the wickham from 8 till 10 on saturday night going around the room with everyone who wanted to sing getting a go - when our spot finished at ten the next official organiser chose to set up in the dining room so we carried on till at least 11 30 and as we left it was still going strong - a great night was had by all - and there was space available although it was busy all present singers and audience stayed so i am assuming they felt it went pretty well - also there was no grandstanding as everyone regardless of fame or lack of it participated equally - all in all a very nice night

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From:
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 05:57 PM

Old Time & Bluegrass
Are Sessions Elitist?
Etiquette Thought for the Day
Other Threads on Etiquette in Jams

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 10:00 AM

Carol -We've already decided that we will have to start earlier. However, an important part of the club atmosphere is the craic and conversation that goes on as people arrive. I'm assured that the warm and personal welcome is part of our appeal!
Like you, we've travelled long distances to festival singarounds in the most awful environments and had to give up on the idea of ever getting in. Robin Hood's Bay last June was very disappointing so we didn't go this year. Perhaps we should draw up a list with star ratings!
I could recommend the all day singaround at Wickersley Festival (near Rotherham) in March - although you might not like the fact that they have a named artist on in each hour to do 15 minutes.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM

Sorry but if festival organisers book guests into singarounds, which wasn't the case at Cleckheaton, then why do they do this -presumably they think the ordinary singer in a singaround enjoys artists taking up precious SAR time - humph!! I really don't think many 'floor singers' would agree with that, surely most people go into a SAR to sing or to listen to the people in the room, not artists.

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:51 AM

Just to stress with the artist coming into a singaround, this weekend it wasn't the artist (whoI think has a great voice) but the person who was running the session who insisted they sing more - needless to say I doubt that I will be going back to the club that he runs.

Sooz how about starting at 8 and everyone/anyone who's in the room then gets a first 'round' - could this be you and me!! I would make the effort to get there early as would be coming form quite a distance. Perhaps people would appreciate the chance to sing an extra song??

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:50 AM

Carol- A lot of Festivals 'book' their guests into singarounds as well , dont forget , which means the S/around organiser HAS to fit then in , and often their schedule means they CANT stay and listen to every one else . I think this happens at Cleck , and I KNOW that Cleck has a major problem with venues , as most of the places with a room are Managed houses , and the managers are very rarely there for two festivals . I will agree about Ian Bruce - First time I met him was at a singaround and he hadnt even brought a guitar , so had to borrow mine .

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Mark Dowding
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:40 AM

I've run a couple of singarounds at Four Fools festival in the past and I get the people who come in when the thing is in full swing - they don't come in at the start when it's empty and no-one can hear their song - see who's singing and make a bee line for the seat nearest to them so they can have a go next and go away (I'd have said "bugger off" but I'm too polite for that). What I tend to do is tell them that I'm going to come back to them after I've been round the people who have been there waiting patiently for half an hour or so for their turn so they at least have the enforced decency to listen to other songs. If they don't want to wait and just get up and go then that's fine by me.

I've also been in the situation where I've arrived at a room with a singaround a few minutes before the advertised start with maybe half a dozen other people, had to wait half an hour before the organiser thought that the room had to be half full before he/she would start, been sat in the wrong place in the room because said organiser decided to start on the left and go round by which time more people have come in and filled the room up and by the time it's got round to my turn I've had to go because I was due on elsewhere.

I can't say I've had "guests" come in demanding spots but I have had "guests" sit there listening for quite a while and stay there well after they've had a go themselves and commented on how much they enjoyed listening to other people.

Cheers
Mark

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: GUEST,TED IN HIS SHREDDIES
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:24 AM

come to the blacksmiths arms at Farlington on the 16th, I will show you how a singaround should go -
1) no uglies
2) no people who live above pie shops
3) smokers get precedence
4) no sea shanties unless you have actually served on a trawler

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:52 AM

Yes, yes and yes. I agree with you all!
We run our Folk Club here in Gainsborough as a singaround almost every meeting. We have a great room and enough seeting for 50 (comfortably) click here
Our main problem is fitting people in as we usually only manage twice round the room. The thing that really bugs me is the people who faff about wondering what to do or going to fetch their guitar or whatever. THEY KNOW WHEN THEIR TURN IS COMING SO WHY AREN'T THEY READY? (Sorry, needed to shout that one)

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:50 AM

Yes, I have been to Towersey, many years ago - singing in the 'barn' next to the pub and with Tony leading the session. Unfortunately Towersey is one of the festivals that won't allow you to buy camping only tickets and not many 5 van sites around.


Also after having moved up to Yorkshire after 15 years 'down south' Towersey is a bit far! Saltburn is usually very good and I'm hoping Filey will be as well - plus we're trying out Saddleworth - I don't think I can drag him to anymore this year!!

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:28 AM

You are not alone!!

There are quite a few threads here on etiquette for sessions, singarounds and clubs - I'm sure the Joe Clones can find some and link them!

I know what you mean about the 'turn' coming in, blagging a spot and demanding attention as if they were in a concert. As far as I'm concerned, if they come to a singaround, they are treated as any other singer.... Ian Bruce springs to mind as one of those who just sit in the audience and wait to be invited, and - most importantly - DON'T BUGGER OFF AS SOON AS THEY HAVE DONE THEIR SPOT!! I know one person (not mainstream, but a professional all the same) who does just that - comes in, makes a fuss, gets a spot and then is out the door almost before the applause has died down. It drives me and a lot of other people absolutely barmy!

And don't get me started on inappropriate venues and lack of seating ... although I think it particuarly appalling that no-one got up to offer you a seat. I'm not one of these people that think 'I'm performing here so I must have a seat', but there are people out there who assume that the right of seating is theirs alone just becasue they have sung a song. Neither am I a female (well, I AM female, but....) that who demands a seat as my right as a female. Having said that, I will take one if offered, but give it up if someone obviously needs it more than I do. It seems that politeness and courtesy are no longer considered necessary.

Having said that, I hope it hasn't put you off festivals altogether. Try and get to Towersey, in Oxfordshire, August Bank Holiday - it's one of the best singarounds on the circuit and we'll make sure you get a seat!

LTS

Subject: RE: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:23 AM

I can understand your moans, Carol. Sadly, venues are always a problem, and getting a folk-friendly landlord can be a difficult task.

I think my major moan about singarounds is that so many people come in, get their song and then wait for another 2 songs (trying to make it less obvious?) and then bugger off to another event. It happens so often it must be obvious to all that they only want their Moment of Glory and are not interestred in listending to other performers and songs. Does this bug anyone else?

Rhiannon

Subject: Singaround etiquette ?
From: Carol
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM

I know life is very short but some things happen in singarounds that really bug me, am I the only one? My main beef is that when artists come into singarounds, no matter how great they are I think they should be treated exactly the same as any other participant in the SAR. And this idea that festival organisers have of programming guest spots in singarounds is just another bad habit!! if the guests want to come into a SAR they would be welcome, the same as anyone else - I think the only exception i would make is if a Choir wanted to participate as a group which doesn't happen very often.

Just got back from Cleckheaton for the first time, enjoyed the SAR on Friday evening but on Saturday it was awful room as a venue - too small,with crying babies,shouting chefs, drumming Morris Men, noisy group next door and the room was part of a passagway through the pub. Then in the evening couldn't get a seat and being disabled can't stand for very long so went back to the hotel with 'my tail between my legs'.
Can't the organisers find a venue with a large room that is not a public thoroughfare - I was told that the Commercial has such a room but it's not used for some reason.

I think that good singarounds don't reeally need an organiser but they definately need a decent room. Sorry for alll the beef but we've come home early as I was so fed up so I'm having a moan!!