BS: try this...if you dare!

Subject: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 05:02 AM

> Try This...I dare you
>
>
>- Enter MEXICO illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas,
>
>international law, or any of that nonsense.
>
>- Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical
>
>care for you and your entire family.
>
>- Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.
>
>- Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.
>
>Procreate abundantly.
>
>- Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive
>
>behavior with, "It is a cultural U.S.A. thing. You would not
>
>understand, pal."
>
>- Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop,
>
>or proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper.
>
>- Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your
>
>children do likewise.
>
>- Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.
>
>- Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal
>
>rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal,
>
>presence in Mexico. Drive around with no liability insurance......and
>
>ignore local traffic laws.
>
>- Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its
>
>officers.
>
>
>Good luck! You'll be demanding for the rest of time or soon dead.
>
>Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any
>
>other country in the world ... except right here in the United
>
>States... Land of the naive!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:39 AM

what a load of twaddle. the US is busy bombing Iraq, and your conscience is diverted to get upset about Mexicans. your outrage is misdirected.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:44 AM

Bomb the Mexicans?

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:00 AM

Dang,Freda...who the heck licked the sugar off your candy this morning!!!!get a life!!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:02 AM

bombe alaska..

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:04 AM

hey tarheel - its evening.. evening over here! you guys are all upside down!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM

tarheel... take a few deep breaths and calm down. Freda... don't eat candy first thing in the morning. Play nice, now. It's spring.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM

apparently freda,you arte not old ednough to see the tax money you pay to the government go out to paying for non-working ,lazy ass,no good muchers,living off everyone in the U.S, while the rest of us suffer the consequinces!....but have no fear,your day will come and you'll remember that i was the one that told you so!!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:07 AM

Tarheel - Its not just an American thing - And this does not mean I am right behind you on this , but over here we had a Mosque demand that traffic on the road outside should be stopped on Fridays !!
Unfortunately all this sort of thing does is give more ammunition for the people who want to stop any one being different to what they see as 'The Right Way'

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:08 AM

Dang right,gnu...it's spring and i'd like to enjoy it without having to pay for it this APRIL 15th,for someone else to do likewise!!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:09 AM

ok leadfingers...whatever!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:12 AM

it's moving into autumn here tarheel - and i dont eat candy - i eat lollies!

who me old? no way!!

(heh heh)

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:14 AM

and...by the way,it's sunday morning here and i'm getting ready for church,this morning!...and,did you know that our little Southern Baptist Church here in Rural Hall,N.C., pays an Attorney each month to Protect our Right to worship here each week?...dang,what ever happened to the land of the free and the home of the brave?

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:18 AM

tell you what,freda...enjoy it while you can...you'd be surprised how quick it sneaks up on you and you haven't prepared for it at all!
then,you'll be like the ole Charlie Poole song..."old and gray and only in the way!"...remember shere you heard it first!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:23 AM

you see, there's a story behind this tarheel. that dang bobert is saying he's sick of seeing blue clickies and wants me to just say what i think... (he's PARTICULARLY sick of the washingtonpost) .. so, you know, i just thought i'd say what i thought, and that historically is not always a good thing..)

meanwhile, its sunday evening here in Erskineville (sometimes called Erko or Erknvile), sydney, Oz, and my cat is on the chair next to me. It's a cool evening, and I'm home after working all week in Canberra.

Erko is a pretty laid back place - people dont have to pay anyone to hold church services. I hope you get some good singing done at church, this morning, tarheel!

best wishes

that damn freda underhill

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:24 AM

ps.. she of the white threads and darlin'grandaughter rosie..

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 08:28 AM

tarheel - you don't know many Mexicans do you? They come here and work like dogs for little pay at jobs you and I don't want but insist get done. They are abused, despised, and neglected. Lazy is the stereotype. Meet some of these people in major cities all over the US and then decide about lazy - 10 hour days picking fruit, 10 hour days sewing in sweat shops, or even better (maybe you don't read the papers) 12 hour days with no food breaks begging on the subways of NYC. That was the fate of about 50 deaf Mexicans who were promised an education at the Lexington School for the Deaf and instead were locked up in overcrowded houses, raped, beaten and used as slave labor.

Shame on you! You and I have everything. Have a little compassion for those who have nothing and dare to look over the fence. Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, Koreans - they all come here hoping for a better life (read: food on the table) and a little money to send home.

Abuse of our system is the exception not the norm. Instead of bitching, say a prayer for the illegal aliens who died on September 11th and whose families cannot claim any of the help without risking deportment. And blame our government that chooses to refuse to give proper funding to control our borders thus encouraging illegal immigration and free movement of terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 08:44 AM

Yeah... you guys had better tighten up at the Canuck border. I see that Jim Carey just became a US citizen after years of working there. A couple of weeks ago it was Alanis Morrisette. And what about all them Jerks de Solay, running around in disguise, taking away circus freak jobs? Next, Celine Dion will... nevermind.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 08:53 AM

and here in Erskineville, people are getting VERY upset about an invasion of something called Crispy Cream donuts, that are marketing themselves as fundraisers at schools. VERY upset.

but I say, we should be openminded about these donuts. we could learn a lot from them.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:01 AM

Actually freda, those donuts serve a purpose. Bush knows that his Social Security plans just ain't going to happen so the next best thing is to eliminate recipients. This generation is the first to expect a shorter life span and the reason is rampant obesity. So let the little darlings suck down those greasy donuts and decrease the surplus population.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:02 AM

tarheel, what are you whining like a constipated dog about? Why the cry for help? Do you want the world to come and save you from those bad Mexicans? The US government suddenly not big and ugly enough to look after its own? Or did you vote for the other side (which I somehow doubt?).

But no - you just wanted to make a point, didn't you? Well, you made it, and now we know you.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:10 AM

The problem, both here and in the UK is integration.

From personal experience in Britain I know that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who refuse to learn to speak English or to mix with the locals. Mind you, the same could be said, even today, of the Brits who upsticks to live in France and Spain but in little ex-pat communities.

However, in general those people are not expecting, and won't get, support of any kind from the government of the country they have moved to whereas those coming into the UK in particular do, in the form of housing, medical attention and cash.

I agree with Leadfingers - the present situation does give ammunition to those with an agenda. There needs to be a tighter control on immigration and maybe heavier penalties on those employing illegals in both the UK and the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:14 AM

In the opening post the characterisation of Mexicans is so ill informed and bigoted that it turns my stomach. I'm a construction foreman and supervise a large number of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans here in Florida and by and large these people aren't asking for anything more than a chance to make a living and you'd be hard pressed to find a more willing and able bunch of workers. Many of these guys are taking English classes at night and nearly all are eager to pick up as much English as they can.
Go out and meet some of these people, work with them, eat with them and trade language before you spread any more of this hate.
Dave Mattingly

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: number 6
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:29 AM

I understand your frustrations Tarheel .... the 'illegal immigrant' issue is certainly getting out of hand in the U.S. Another Bush Republican manouver to support the corporate demands/interests. Either the U.S is exporting it's jobs to offshore locations or they are using illegal immigrants to work for less than minumom wage and no benefits, excpt for what the government is handing out. Are you also aware that children of illegal immigrants are allowed 'in state' tuition at state colleges, regardless of what state their parents reside.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:41 AM

van lingle reminded me of another group of "lazy" Mexicans who used to gather on a street corner at 4:30 AM and wait for construction crews to go by and hopefully pick them for today's job. I said "Good morning" to them one day and you would have thought I had given them the world - simple respect and acknowledgement that they exist. They live in rental houses (warehouses really) in Jackson Heights. These are one and two family homes that have been converted into cells big enough for a single bed. 10 - 12 men share a basement, a bath and cook on hot plates. The money goes home to Mexico to families desperate for it. The fire department dreads what they know will be a disaster when a row of these houses goes up in flames.

As to language - if the children cannot attend school without the risk of deportaion, how the hell are they supposed to learn Engish which their parents know is their ticket out of poverty? The politically active Mexicans who demand bi-lingual doctors, teachers, etc. are fighting to remedy the problem not prolong it. Sorry tarheel - Mexicans are not guilty as charged. But there are other groups that are. Keep digging and find another minority to abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 10:31 AM

Just got back from my first trip to the beautiful country of Mexico, where I stayed in a little town just south of Puerto Vallarta.

I barely ran into any monolingual Spanish speakers. Everyone spoke English.

There is a huge Wal Mart in Puerto Vallarta, along with many American fast food chain restaurants. English language newspapers, American TV and radio stations, and plenty of hard working middle and working class Mexicans, alongside plenty of vacationing working class, middl class, and upper class Mexicans, poor Mexicans, homeless Mexicans...

And BTW, if you drive without insurance and ignore local traffic laws, you'll be driving just like the Mexicans drive and fit right in!

I really, really can't stand xenophobic bigots like tarheel, who are trying to dismantle the US government because they don't like paying their taxes.

To tarheel and all like him, I happily and cheerily say:

Fuck you asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 10:38 AM

tarheel and jacqui, they do try and intermingle, just not with people like you. They're not missing much then?

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:20 PM

Guest 10:38

In the UK I worked as a volunteer teaching English to a Turkish Kurd. She was one of the few in her community who wanted to learn English. The majority of her friends were just not interested as they lived in an area where there was a large group of Turkish Kurds and saw no need to try and get to know the local population. Gulustan, who I was teaching, despaired of their atitude, but even her husband felt the same way.

Imn my job, dealing with motor accident claims, I often came upon clients who did not speak any English, despite having been in the UK for a number of years. We had one hell of a job trying to deal with their claims and often had to resort to interpreters.

Trust me, a lot of them DO NOT WANT to become involved with the English because of what they see as the lax culture and mores.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST,Chief Powhatan
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:40 PM

You think you have it tough, listen to this. This was MY country, and when the white man arrived we welcomed them. But, did they adopt our customs? NO. Did they learn our language? NO! Did they kill all the bison? YES. Did they give us smallpox infested blankets? YES
When we were in charge men fished and hunted. Women cut firewood, built the tee pees, did all the cooking, carried water etc. and you lot think you improved on our system? HAW!

Now you complain that immigrants are moving in taking advantage of you and refusing to even learn the language. Do you hear that dripping sound? That's my anus bleeding for you!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: tarheel
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:42 PM

GUEST,who remain annonymous and come in here and call us names, are the BIGGEST COWARDS in the world!i'd rather be "f--ked" that a COWARD anyday...at least you know who i am and you,as i stated,are a STUPID COWARD!!!!
and Freda...you have a right to your opinoins and thsat'sa all we are doing here,stating opinons!
Opinons are like assholes...everybody has one!
so,i can't for the life of me undertstand why everyone is so worked up here over an opinion!
i leave this place for weeks and then come back and insert a thread here and all of a sudden,it's "let's all jump on TARHEEL" day,here!
well,jump if you wish,but it's only an opinion...
i find most of you don't like me because i'm very conservative and mnot a liberal like 90% of the ones in here who have answers flor everything as if it's the gospel truth!
i'm not happy with all that "DUBAYA" doing..in fact since the electioon,the repulican party has done anything of substance yet,and i fiund that very frustrating!
but i will not give up my CONSERVATIVE beliefs and values,just because the president and congresss cant get their act together!
they never have since the beginning of our country,so why shoulds we expect asny difference now!
and neither has PARLIMENT,in the UK, with whoever is PRIMISTER!
but anyway,it's sunday here in the GREAT SOUTHLAND and i have the business of the LORD JESUS CHRIST,to attend to!!!
happy first day of SPRNG,everyone!!!
you too,guest,you chicken!@#$%,son of a !@#$^ing COWARD!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:46 PM

Tarheel, have you read the DaVinci Code?

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 12:48 PM

That doesn't sound like a Christian to me!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Amos
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 01:17 PM

The reason your experiment wouldn't work, Tarheel, is because Mexico and the United States are very different.

We chose to build the United States on more humanitarian principles than those who built Mexico did. That's why people stay up all night figuring out how to get here.

So what is your point? That we should go from "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" to "Do unto others according to the lowest they do unto you"??

I don't think so.


A1

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 01:39 PM

Aw shite!!!! I don't like getting in on these types of threads much anymore, and I would PM the Chief if I could, rather than post, BUT...

Hey Chief. You said "...when the white man arrived we welcomed them. But, did they adopt our customs? NO. Did they learn our language? NO! Did they kill all the bison? YES. Did they give us smallpox infested blankets? YES
When we were in charge men fished and hunted. Women cut firewood, built the tee pees, did all the cooking, carried water etc. and you lot think you improved on our system? HAW!"

First, the welcome. Damn straight you did. We had ships - you had canoes. We had guns - you had bows. We had a shitload of stuff you guys had never even dreamed of... and we shared it with you.

Your customs. Like, say, deciding what place a boy would take in society by what he took a liking to as a one year old in a ceremony where, if he chose a woman's tool, he would be raised as a female and consequently become a wife, in work and sexually, perhaps to a boy who chose a man's tool at the same ceremony? What's your word for this guy, pronounced like "bare-dash", I can't recall. Or the custom of stealing women and land from opposing tribes, such as the Mig-Maw did with the Maliseets here in New Brunswick. Or Rain Dances. Enough said.

Your language. No. You didn't have any text books.

Bison. That was a travesty, shooting them just for coats. But, thanks for all the help. Couldn't have done it near as fast without you guys.

Smallpox infested blankets. You'd have to make me believe that the military brass actually formulated the plan to infect the blankets and distribute them, thereby placing their own people at peril. Granted, it's not beyond the White Man's capacity for cruel and unusal tactics, no matter the losses to one's own side.

Men versus women. I need only say, "WE'VE come a long way, baby."

I am truly sick and tired of Natives telling me that I owe them. The bush that my forefathers choked a living out of did not BELONG to anyone except those that worked it. That was one of YOUR customs. And one of OURS. The only difference is that we put ours in writing, developed a system and the science to define boundaries, set up a legal system to determine usage (NOT ownership - no individual owns land) without bloodshed, and set up a taxation system to ensure those who did not use the land forfeited it.

Boil it all down to this. I have title (usage) to my property because I EARNED it. I retain title because I PAY my taxes. A portion of my taxes go to your education, health, housing, businesses, free land, etc. You have more "chances" GIVEN to you than me or any of my forefathers ever had.

YOU are welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 01:45 PM

Yeah, I live in an area with a lot of Mexican immigrants. Pretty much every time I see one of them (or more than one, even), they are working... and working harder than pretty much all of the other people I see around them, doing the jobs most people in the US don't want to do.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 02:32 PM

Mexican, as in native-born citizen of the country of Mexico? Now, here in the state of New Mexico, one of the United States of America, a very large percentage of our population speak Spanish as their first language, and are the descendants of people who have lived here since long before this became part of the US, or even long before the US ever existed. They are, of course, citizens of the US. Their right to retain their bilingual heritage is in the state constitution and part of the charm of living here. Naturally, these people are all second-class citizens and hold menial positions: this includes such as the governor, the mayor of Albuquerque and other such peons.   

Or is this supposed to refer to those individuals who are native-born citizens of all of the Central and South American nations who are anxious to make a better life for themselves and their familys? My ancestors and (probably)Tarheel's did the same, but we had the advantage of coming from a country in which the skin color is a much lighter shade of tan. These are the people who come to this nation, legally or illegally, and do the jobs that 'Americans' (i.e., Anglos) don't want to do for the wages available. Yes, many of them are Mexicans...and many are citizens of El Salvador, Chile and the other nations of the region. And yes, they are exploited by their employers, work for less than minimum wage, live in appalling conditions and are afraid to complain for fear that they will have to return home.

Also, BTW, number 6 said Are you also aware that children of illegal immigrants are allowed 'in state' tuition at state colleges, regardless of what state their parents reside [sic]? In New Mexico, students must be citizens, permanent (legal) residents, on a bona-fide student visa or non-citizen members of the Armed Forces to qualify for in-state tuition. I'd guess the same is true in most other states.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 02:43 PM

Honestly. It is hard to read this thread. On the other hand, tarheel speaks his mind so plainly, he doesn't even notice his extreme bigotry and ignorance. So I guess that's OK. But tarheel, I take exception to your purported honesty when you say "and,did you know that our little Southern Baptist Church here in Rural Hall,N.C., pays an Attorney each month to Protect our Right to worship here each week?...dang,what ever happened to the land of the free and the home of the brave?" Come on. Frankly, I do not believe it. Give us a few more particulars, if you please.

Further, tarheel, you claim that: "i have the business of the LORD JESUS CHRIST,to attend to!!!" How can you call it the LORD JESUS CHRIST's (quote) business when you flout his injunction to love your neighbor as yourself? Unless you think it was just an oversight that Jesus didn't address the problems of immigration? "Let the little ones come to me," he said, "but make them stop at the border." Right.

Sorry. Jacqui, you say "She was one of the few in her community who wanted to learn English." Maybe human beings, per se, are different in the UK from what they are in the US but I doubt it. Obviously, different immigrants have different ways to try to guard their cultures and keep their people from harm but the one constant is their drive to learn the language of the host country. Of course, there will be individual members of a given family who will never learn the language and I think we can live with that.

You also say: "There needs to be a tighter control on immigration and maybe heavier penalties on those employing illegals in both the UK and the USA. Significant penalties against employers is the only thing that will work, in my estimation. As long as people can better their lives and their families' condition by leaving their homes, that is what they will do. If they could find no jobs, they would not go.

I had this demonstrated in a small way in my own life. I had a dog that nursed a kitten to health. When I wanted to breed her again, I wanted the kitten - by now a half-grown cat - to stop nursing. But mild dissuasion didn't sway him. So when I caught him, I'd yell at him and chase him away. All I accomplished is that when I came into the room he'd leave my dog and make a dash away. Then one day I got smarter. I punished her. It took only one time before she shut down the candy store. She wasn't going to take the heat for someone else's actions.

The only reason that I can see for our policy regarding illegal immigrants in the US is that we are conflicted- we want the cheap labor but we don't want the people to stay or to enjoy any of the benefits. So we try to have it both ways and of course, that doesn't work well.

I tutored English as a Second Language for years. I believe that I would change my focus to a different segment of the culture I was serving, in order to discover what they really want.

Number 6, you say: "Are you also aware that children of illegal immigrants are allowed 'in state' tuition at state colleges, regardless of what state their parents reside." No. I was not aware of that. If it is true, I cannot imagine a better way of having a generation, whether legal or illegal, learn and practise a language, thereby fitting themselves for productive lives in the new country than by having them attend college.

I think the strength of the United States of America stems from the very things that we are complaining about here.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 03:06 PM

Sorry about the non-closed html.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 05:25 PM

tarheel - that is a cut and paste copy you posted. Poor Mexicans are not even worth stating your own opinion? Are Mexicans allowed to worship at your church and share in the work of the lord? Just curious.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 05:28 PM

Sure they can. They just have to sit way up front where everyone can keep an eye on them.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 05:34 PM

as the lady said, "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 05:52 PM

Or as Lou Reed says

Give me your hungry, your tired your poor I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
and get it over with and just dump 'em on the boulevard

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:04 PM

- or -

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
We can us them to clean our toilets
Serve our chimichangas, mow our lawns
I shine my lamp and hope you send me more."

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:08 PM

Unconfirmed sources report that the French people have demanded that the United States return the Statue Of Liberty. The French are highly pissed off over the re-election of George W. Bush and changes the Bush administration made to the statue during its' recent 'restoration'. The French have dispatched a navel fleet to pick up the statue igniting an international crisis.


The ill feelings that have brought on this crisis did not arise overnight. The French people first started to be upset about The Statue of Liberty when the Bush regime changed the wording on her tablet. The changes where made to reflect new security concerns after the 911 attacks and concerns about immigration.

The original inscription on the tablet read, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

It now reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free unless they are Arabs, Mexicans, Cubans, Haitians, democrats, enemy combatants, French, or any other person who is on Federal Watch List #C7-342."

The United Nations has agreed to help the two parties negotiate a peaceful end to the growing international crisis, but neither party has expressed much interest in talking right now.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:28 PM

freda,
Hopefully they can work it out over a plate of Freedom Fries.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 06:32 PM

LoL!!

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:03 PM

Interestingly, artbrooks, I have a friend whose family has been living in what is now New Mexico, USA, for more than 400 years. They don't consider themselves Mexicans, though, even though they were Mexican citizens before they were US citizens. My friend says she is "Hispanic". She says that her family immigrated to what is now New Mexico, USA, from Spain, so that makes them Hispanic Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: number 6
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:12 PM

Ebbie .... yes it is true.

I have nothing against immigration at all. I am myself a child of an immigrant. But I have an issue when people who do not go through the legal process of immigration. I have an issue when citizens, and landed immigrants do not have the given rights of illigal immigrants. I have an issue when coporations use the 'illigals' to their own advantage paying them wages below the minum, and use their status to not give out medicare. This takes away, even the most menial jobs that otherwise people have gone through the poper process to have a foot hold inot the 'new world'. The illegals are also fodder for the greedy 'people smugglers'.

Six

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:18 PM

Number 6, I though you lived in Canada? Where do you get your information about "in state" tuition at state colleges in the US? I have certainly never heard that one, and I have lived in the US for almost all of my life, and attended a few colleges here as well.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 07:55 PM

CarolC: exactly my point. The fact that people are bilingual, and Spanish is their first language, doesn't mean that they are either 'Mexican' or recent arrivals (illegal or otherwise). BTW, if your friends' family has been in New Mexico for over 400 years, they were legally Mexican citizens for less than 30 years, from Mexico's final independence from Spain in 1821 to the Treaty of Guadelupe-Hidalgo in 1848.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: number 6
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 08:36 PM

Carol C.   ..... I do live in Canada (the maritimes). It was on Lou Dobbs, CNN, last week. Not every state grants this, but many do. Do a google on the topic, you'll find some info on it. It is rather unfair, to children of landed immigrants and citizens.


sIx

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Auggie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:18 PM

Carol C.
I believe six states currently offer in-state tuition rates to undocumented immigrants. Texas, California, Georgia, Utah, New York and just recently Kansas (See Blue Clicky Thing below). 4 or 5 other states are currently debating the merits of such programs in their legislatures, my state being one of those.

Those Neanderthals who don't like "foreigners" would do well to remember that one of the best ways to get rid of them is to assimilate them, and one of the best ways to help them assimilate is through education. If tuition subsidies pass here, I'm sure it will increase my yearly state taxes, maybe as much as the price of a set or 2 of new guitar strings. I think I can live with that.

Our county has gone from totally white 25 years ago, to increasingly Hispanic, Black and Asian in 2005 (it's always been multicultural- many of the Prostestant New England stock who settled this area left when their culture was overrun by the Irish and Germans who followed later- too much drinking, fighting, rowdyness and worst of all Catholicism came along with the newcomers). Along with our recent increase in immigration (legal and otherwise) has come an increase in crime. I don't know if there is a cause/effect relationship there; certainly that's a widely held perception in my community, but I'm willing to bet that the number of active street gang members who are college graduates is pretty damn low, so if nothing else, it's a prudent investment in all our futures.

My family spent two entire generations digging it's way out of immigrant poverty. If in-state tuition can help ameliorate that for someone else, it's a reasonable, small sacrifice for the descendants of previous immigrants to make.








Atlanta Journal Article from 2003

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:29 PM

Six out of 50 states, number 6 (plus, presumably, Puerto Rico, Guam and maybe a few other places). I think maybe Mr. Dobbs might have been exagerating just a little bit in the report you saw. And I have to say, I find myself at least somewhat in agreement with Auggie on this one. If we educate people and thereby help lift them up out of poverty and help them become productive, self-supporting citizens, that is to the benefit of all tax-payers in the long run.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 09:50 PM

Sorry, Chuck you are WAY out of line on this one. And not sounding too Christan either.....Do unto others. Love thy neighbor..etc...

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: number 6
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 10:35 PM

Ok 6 states ... slightly over exagerrated is correct, but still six is six.

I agree with auggie too, of course in state tuition benefits the chldren of poor immigrants but it also would benefit the poor 'decendants of previous immigrants'. I find it hard to accept that only a select group such as illegal immigrants have priority over others. Living in the U.S as you do, you are fully aware of the high cost of post secondary education.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 10:45 PM

Number 6 (prophetic moniker on this subject, nicht wahr?), college is a very expensive proposition for all of us, but there is a lot of help available out there if a child seeks help from counselors and grant providers, and if the child is willing to consider other than name brands.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 10:50 PM

We still have access to state colleges and in-state tuition. We just have to go to the school in the state where we or our parents live in order to get the in-state rate. The schools that people are competing the most to get into aren't usually state colleges anyway, so I don't really think it goes very far toward giving anyone an unfair advantage.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: number 6
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 11:30 PM

Thanks for the info Carol .... I hope you realize the info we receive here is via the U.S. new media.

Carol and Ebbie .... yes tuition is expensive ... post secondary education should be available and accessable fairly to all. I know you stand by me on that.

anyway, thanks guys,
sereux SiX

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 05 - 11:40 PM

Yes, I do realize that, number 6. And while I salute Lou Dobbs' efforts to try to keep jobs from being shipped out of the US to other countries, I have had some questions about the accuracy of his reportage on some issues in the past. Personally, I don't trust any of the US news media outlets. Not even Public TV and Public radio.

Carol and Ebbie .... yes tuition is expensive ... post secondary education should be available and accessable fairly to all. I know you stand by me on that.

Absolutely

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 05:05 AM

Thanks for the PM, Chief. I too, am anti-bigotry and anti-injustice, especially when it happens to me. Kinda go wildebeeste, ya know? I will now be gnu again.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 11:30 AM

gnu, glad to see you smoked the peace pipe there. As one who's ancestors were sold out by their chiefs, moved off their land, had the wearing their clothes and carrying out the rituals of their culture outlawed and generally screwed around in the name of greed and profit, I do not find the Chief's historic perspective skewed and I'm sure a lot of Scots back then could empathize.

If it hadn't been for a few friends in the first nations and their willingness to share their knowledge and their skills, none of my forebears would have survived a winter, let alone found a route west overland to race the roaring Fraser to the sea.

We may have had "bigger canoes" and been in the possession of some technological advancements, but our human advancement was not necessarily superior.

Perhap's Franklin would not have got lost as often as he did, had he had the forethought to take a few "friends" along to show him the way.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST,Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 11:54 AM

Guest 21 Mar 05 11:30 AM was me.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Metchosin
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 12:54 PM

and...I'm fairly certain that it wasn't Blinkhorn's superior tracking skills that enabled him to find Franklin when Franklin got lost in the Australian outback either. I would think that some unsung aboriginal's skill was largely in play.....end of my thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 01:33 PM

"And,did you know that our little Southern Baptist Church here in Rural Hall,N.C., pays an Attorney each month to Protect our Right to worship here each week?...dang,what ever happened to the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

Tarheel - I find this a little hard to believe - could you give us some details ? Are you sure this lawyer isn't selling you a bill of goods ? Pulling the wool over your eyes ?

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 01:42 PM

Metchosin said... "As one who's ancestors were sold out by their chiefs, moved off their land, had the wearing their clothes and carrying out the rituals of their culture outlawed and generally screwed around in the name of greed and profit,..." My ancestors were Irish and Acadian French.

I agree - enough thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 07:12 PM

There's a lot of this paranoid crap goin' around about primates too, like they was takin' away jobs from hard workin' Americans like tarheel and his ilk. Well, I ain't impressed. You think it's a bowl of cherries movin' to the USA and gettin' treated like a 3rd rate subhuman, tarheel? You think your border customs officials are nice people, dyin' to help out strangers? Ha. You been to Guantanamo lately? Maybe you oughta quit blamin' all your insecurities on other people for a change. Foreigners are not responsible for the fact that your life ain't perfect yet.

Subject: RE: BS: try this...if you dare!
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 07:35 AM

what this thread needs is some mexican peace flowers (sage)