 sj |
||
|
||
BS: KatrinaGate
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM Woody, Woody, Woody... I'm real disappointed in you, pal... Like Paul Harvey used to say, "Now for the rest of the story..." What happened to that $6.6B? Ya' give up? Well, Bush used it as a slush fund to fund the Department of Homeland Security and his war in Iraq!!! That's were the dough went!!! And FEMA wasn't the only agency that was raided... Bush also moved funds out of the Army Corps of Engineers at a time when the levee system in New Orleans needed a minimum of $100M to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. But rather than have the $100M neeeded and requested by the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA, only 20% was funded in fiscal year 2003 and even less, 17% in 2004??? Meanwhile back at FEMA, the lootin' was out-of-control for DHS and the Iraq War leavin' FEMA without the staff or resources it needed to perform at 90's capabilities... "Eric Tolbert, a former top disaster response official in the Busdh administration, knew calamity like Hurrican Katrina would be coming sooner or later. And he also knew that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, where he worked until February, was not ready to properly respond. There were too few employees, not enough contracts in place to provide assistance, and a lack of money to do proper pre-palnning. The added burden of the war on terror, he says, diverted funds away from FEMA's core mission." "FEMA had to compete and had to help finace the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. They were taking chunks of money out of the budget. We always referred to it as taxes." (Source: "Anatomy of an unnatural disaster", by Michael Scherer, Solon) And that, my fiends, is the rest of the story... A gutted FEMA... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 23 Jun 06 - 12:56 AM http://www.bronnergroup.com/news/fema.htm To help get the job done, the administration is asking Congress to more than double the agency's funding for fiscal 2003 to $6.6 billion. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:39 PM Who submits the budget, Woody??? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:29 PM http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4846565 Morning Edition, September 14, 2005 · Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), the ranking Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee, talks about Congress' responsibility for what went wrong in the initial Katrina response. Lieberman was one the main architects of the Department Homeland Security, which transformed FEMA from an independent agency to part of a large bureaucracy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:07 PM Well, Amos, Ihave figurated thw Woody part of it... Sawdust fri brains... Ain't got nuthin' of his own to post... Heck, last week he actually accidently cut 'n posted some stuff that argued against Bush... But, hey, I thanked him fir it anyway... Other than that, no original thoughts or posts as far as I can see... Bobert BTW, I still have never posted a cut 'n paste... All my stuff I come by the ol' fashion way: hard work... Hmmmm? Maybe this explains why these GUESTs can't keep up... No brag, just fact... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:59 PM Woody: Why do you expect people to read your long cut and pastes? You think they're somp'n special? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/cron.html .....Wednesday, August 31 "We Should Have Asked Sooner" Gov. Blanco announces New Orleans must be evacuated because of the still- rising water and uninhabitable conditions. Mayor Nagin estimates 50,000 to 100,000 people remain in the city. Rescue efforts are delayed because of the inability of rescuers to communicate with each other. Virtually all communication systems are out. City officials say 80 percent of New Orleans is flooded. FEMA organizes 475 buses to be sent in to transport many of the estimated 23,000 people from the Superdome to the Houston Astrodome. Newly rescued people are still being brought to the Superdome. Widespread looting continues. Evacuating hospitals is a top priority: Patients and staff are stranded and supplies and power are dwindling. By midday, water levels between the city and Lake Ponchartrain have equalized. The Army Corps of Engineers renews work to fix the breach in the 17th St. Canal. President Bush flies over the area on his way back to Washington. He announces FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas. Gov. Kathleen Blanco: "All I know is on Wednesday night I was convinced that there were no FEMA buses. I began to believe that no buses had been ordered. We were moving school buses in. But they're designed for short hauls." Walter Maestri, Jefferson Parish emergency manager: "What we did -- under Louisiana law the parish presidents, the head of the counties, have the authority to use private resources. In all honesty, we begin looting. We go to Sam's and Wal-Mart and Winn-Dixie and gather up food and water and start distributing it because we had 60 hours' worth of resources that we had stored, but now we're out of it. When we didn't get any assistance from the state or from FEMA in the time period that we thought was appropriate, I got someone in an automobile and said, 'Go to Baton Rouge, go find out. I've got to know. Go up there, face to face and say, "What is happening here? Where is water? Where is food? Where is all the things that we need to get out of here?"' And he passes, literally, hundreds of school buses lined up to come and get these folks. But the problem was that because of the fear that resulted from the civil unrest, the bus drivers said, 'We're not going in there to pick these people up unless you put a law enforcement official on every one of the buses, because we're afraid.'" Michael Brown, FEMA director: "As I have said, I think that one of the biggest mistakes that I made as the FEMA director during Katrina was not immediately turning to the military and saying: 'We have been overwhelmed. We need you to take over logistics, distribution of commodities, etc.' We immediately did turn to the military and mission-assigned them to start doing airlifts, start bringing things in. The mistake that I made was not doing that sooner and not giving them the orders that we needed them to do all of that immediately. Governor Blanco probably should have asked sooner. I probably should have asked sooner. I think we both should have asked sooner."... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:47 PM Problem with yer cut'n paste, Woody, is that Blanco has release over 100,000 documents to show what she was doing during Katrina and Bush is caliming Executive Privilecdge in not turning over his side of the story... Hmmmmmmmm??? Like what's got to hide??? Nevermind, I'll answer that fir ya.... ...lots and you had better vote Repub 'cause if you vote Dem and the Derms take back either house of Congress, yer gonna find out that what I've been able to get against the boy wil pale in comparision to what the Congressional comittee, with supena powers, will get... Vote Repub for silence!!!! Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:41 PM http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/cron.html ....Saturday, August 27 "The Storm is Headed Right for You" Katrina becomes a Category 3 with 115 mph maximum sustained winds. By the end of the day it is 335 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi River. The expected storm surge is 15 to 20 feet, locally as high as 25 feet. FEMA Situation Update: "Coastal residents jammed freeways and gas stations as they rushed to get out A direct hit could wind up submerging New Orleans in several feet of water At least 100,000 people in the city lack transportation to get out ... Louisiana and Mississippi make all lanes northbound on interstate highways..." National Hurricane Center director Max Mayfield tells the Times-Picayune newspaper, "This is scary this is the real thing." A Louisiana State University computer model of a 115 mph storm strike shows the overtopping of levees protecting New Orleans and nearby areas. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says he'll follow the state evacuation plan and will not call for mandatory evacuation until 30 hours before projected landfall. He also announces that the Superdome will be "a shelter of last resort for evacuees with special needs." Some parishes order mandatory evacuations. Ray Nagin, mayor of New Orleans: "I got a call, I think Saturday afternoon [from] Max Mayfield, the hurricane director. And he said definitively, "Mr. Mayor, the storm is headed right for you. I've never seen a hurricane like this in my 33-year career. And you need to order mandatory evacuation. Get as many people out as possible." At that time, I thought we had done a pretty good job because we had gotten about 80 percent of the people out. I immediately hung up the phone, called my city attorney because they had always advised that you can't do a mandatory evacuation. And I said, "We're doing one in the morning." Kathleen Blanco, governor of Louisiana: She requests President Bush to declare a state of emergency in Louisiana. "I went into New Orleans ... and stood beside Mayor Nagin and emphasized the need to leave. I gave people clues on how to pack. And we said, "Plan your route carefully. Pack carefully. Pack as though you're going on a camping trip. Bring enough to sustain yourself, your family, your children. " Michael Brown, FEMA director: "I at least wanted a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and the surrounding parishes [on Saturday]. We've all feared a catastrophic hurricane striking New Orleans. That is why the first place we picked to do an exercise and planning was New Orleans. And based upon that ["Hurricane Pam" planning exercise], I knew they needed to evacuate. ".... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:29 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Blanco .... Hurricane Katrina Governor Blanco is still grappling with the massive damage to the State of Louisiana in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina which struck Louisiana on August 29, 2005. Her response to the catastrophe has resulted in Time Magazine's labeling her a "failure"[1] in a section called "The Worst Governors in America." [2] Extensive and severe damage was caused by the Hurricane across the Gulf Coast region of the southeastern United States, including Louisiana's largest city, New Orleans, on August 29, 2005. Actions in advance of Katrina On August 27, 2005, Governor Blanco speaking on Hurricane Katrina told the media in Jefferson Parish "I believe we are prepared. That's the one thing that I've always been able to brag about."[3] Later that day she issued a request for federal assistance and US$9 million in aid to President George W. Bush, which stated, "...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal." Also in the requesting letter, the governor stated: "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan."[4][5] [6] FEMA, issued a statement dated August 27, that President Bush authorized the allocation of federal resources, "following a review of FEMA's analysis of the state's request for federal assistance." [7] A White House statement of the same date also acknowledges this authorization of aid by President Bush. [8] On August 28, Governor Blanco sent a letter to President Bush, which increased the amount of aid requested to US$130 million. [9] Time magazine has reported that on August 29, the day that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, Governor Blanco could reach neither Bush or his chief of staff and had to leave a message pleading for help with a low-level adviser. [10] On Aug. 28 Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff failed to reach Blanco by telephone. A 12:30 p.m. e-mail to aides from a Homeland Security official stated "Your assistance would be much appreciated,". Deputy Press Secretary Roderick Hawkins wrote in an e-mail at 1:59 p.m. to his boss, Denise Bottcher, "I think she's asleep now." At approximately 2:15 p.m. Hawkins e-mailed the official stating that "Governor Blanco is unavailable at the present time. . . . You may reach her at approximately 3 p.m." Later that day Chertoff and Blanco did talk via telephone. [11] Actions following Katrina On September 1, 2005, Governor Blanco authorized National Guard troops to "shoot and kill" rioters and looters, [12] which followed President Bush's statement that looters in New Orleans and elsewhere in the chaotic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina should be treated with "zero tolerance" [13]. The attitude to looters, and the perception that police and national guard resources were diverted to deal with looters, were sources of controversy and criticism. Governor Blanco was also criticized for allegedly having only a minor subset of her available National Guard troops standing by on ready, and for not being able to provide relief supplies and standby medical or other first responder personnel to New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin for the victims of the hurricane. A Newsday article by Jim Pinkerton, for example, claims "The Louisiana Guard has about 11,000 members, of whom 3,000 are in Iraq. And yet, of the remaining 8,000 in the Pelican State, fewer than half were on duty the day Katrina struck." [14] Louisiana did indeed have only 3,500 ready out of 6,500 national guards available according to a different article in the Chicago Tribune; in comparison, the much harder-hit state of Mississippi had 850 guards on duty, and Alabama had 350 as of August 30. [15] In addition, Governor Blanco had accepted an offer of National Guard reinforcements from New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Although this agreement was made on August 28, the day before Katrina struck, the paperwork required to deploy troops did not arrive from the federal government until September 1. The specific cause of the delay is unclear. [16] An article in the Washington Post cites three state and federal officials as stating collectively that "Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until August 31." It also quotes one as saying erroneously that as of September 3, Governor Blanco had not declared a state of emergency in Louisiana. [17] Controversy has continued to circle the issue of the National Guard. According to an article in Newsweek [18], President Bush and Governor Blanco met on Air Force One on Friday, September 2, 2005 while it sat on the tarmac at the New Orleans airport. Echoing requests submitted by President Bush to Governor Blanco in a memo prior to the meeting, Mayor Nagin suggested federalizing the National Guard to improve the command structure. According to both Sen. David Vitter, a Republican ally of Bush's, and Mayor Ray Nagin, the Democrat Mayor of New Orleans, Bush turned to Governor Blanco and said, "Well, what do you think of that, Governor?" Blanco told Bush, "I'd rather talk to you about that privately." To which Nagin responded, "Well, why don't you do that now?". Immediately following that private meeting, according to a September 7, 2005 Washington Times article [19], Mayor Nagin said that "He (Bush) called [Nagin] in that office, and he said, 'Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor.' I was ready to move. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision." Governor Blanco subsequently rejected the proposal. President Bush continued to press the offer so Governor Blanco rejected it in writing on September 6, citing the need for flexibility in National Guard operations, particularly the need for Guard in areas other than New Orleans where the military is not currently operating.[20] Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi reportedly declined a similar offer from the President. It has not previously been a policy during natural disasters to combine the command of National Guard and military operations under the authority of the President.[21] President Bush has the power to take command of National Guard brigades under the Insurrection Act without the agreement of a state Governor, but no President has done this since Lyndon Johnson in the 1960s and President Bush has so far also declined to do so. However, Governor Blanco and Major General Bennett Landreneau, commanding Louisiana's National Guard, have co-operated closely with Lieutenant General Russel Honore, commanding military operations under Joint Task Force Katrina.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:14 PM Well, gol danged, Rufe... Thank you for ***finally answering*** my question but, my friend... ...what difference does it make??? Hey, if I'm hired on as a CEO of a corporation that widgets and the board of directors tells me that they also want to get into making framastats then, hey, that's life... I took the job... Congress doesn't pour over budget requests, the executive does... And the exectutive presents a budget to Congress for approval... It is the executive branch of or goevernment who sets the priorities and in doing so gives some agenmcies greater power than others... Bush and his folks presented the DHS budget to Congress... And within this budget was money for FEMA... Congress didn't tell Bush how much they wanted him to spend for DHS or FEMA... No, Bush told Congress what he wanted to spend and guess what, Rufe??? Give up??? Well, Bush choze to gut FEMA and sent a budget to Congress which, in essence, gutted FEMA and Congress approved it... This was Bush's decision... Now if you see things differently, Rufe, please let me know and we can discuss our differences but, please, please, please, no more guessing games... Now, related to the guttin' of FEMA things just haven't been flowin' to smoothly in terms of Katrina victims getting assistance... Just yesterday a Lousinana U.S. Judge, Stanwood Duval, Jr., while ruling that FEMA hadn't broken any laws in how it provides data related to the rerquirements for attaining assistance said (overta dictum???): "Rather than hiding behind bureautic double-talk, obscure regulations, outdated computer programs, anmd politically loaded platitudes such as 'people need to take care of themselves' as the fave of the federal government in the aftermath of Katrina, FEMA's goal should have been to foster an environment of openness and honesty with all Americans affected by the disaster. Sharing information in simple, clear, and precise terms and delineating the terms and conditions of available assistance in an up-front and forthright manner, does just that." While back in Washington, D.C. the House Homeland Security Committee heard testimony from both Mayors Anthony Williams (D- Wahington, D.C.) and Michael Bloomberg (R-New York City) who were each critical of the Bush funding formulas for counterterrorism, including first responders, that the Bush administartion has put forward... Just a few quotes form the various Republican House commttee members: Didn't pass "the common-sense test"... Rep Rob Simmons (R-Conn.) "It was indefensible, it was disgraceful, and to me it raises very, very real questions about the competency of this department in determining how its going to protect America."... Peter King (R-N.Y.) "How could a rational process produce such a dysfunctional conclusion?"... (R-Mayor Bloombery, N.Y. City) "Something wrong with the formula"... (R- Jim Gibbons, Nev.) Yeah, Rufe... Seems as if you are about the only person, other that Bush and his tiny circle of advisors who don't think we're living thru one of the great scandals of complete ineptitudnees of all time... And with the hrrican season in force, we're no better off than the day Katrina hit... Yet yer boy has never once aplogized for boasting that it was his job to protect the American people (see Representaive King's remarks above) when he hadn't asked for the funding that would have that... But forget the apology... We know Bush don't do that kinda stuff... But he continues to make decisions that don't "protect the American people"... These are the facts my friend... You may just be the kind pwerson who likes to go down fightin' but now even the Repub are coming to see what I have been arguing' for a long time now... Hmmmmmmmmm? O'Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:07 AM http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/sociss/release.cfm?ArticleID=1127 Professor R. Scott Fosler: "It took a lot to build FEMA into an effective disaster planning and response agency ten years ago and grand bureaucratic shifts won't be sufficient to fix what's wrong now. It should never have been put in a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in the first place. But now it is not so easy just to yank it out of DHS. You have to first ask whether it will have the legs to stand on its own, what role it will play in addressing terrorism and how it will relate to a significant new factor: the Department of Homeland Security itself. We can't simply go back to square one, because things have changed. We must stop the senseless bureaucratic box-shuffling, the organizational 'amputation before diagnosis.' Let's first think through where we are now, and how we can best move forward from that position." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM O'Bobert: "This i8s the way the Bush asdminisration itself reorganized DHS and FEMA..." It's is relevant when ya want's it ta be but it ain't relative when ya dont want ta answer. 569 posts and O'Bobert still caint demonstrait the smarts he claims ta have. He don't want to admit that other people demanded tha creation of HDS and then thay demanded that FEMA be stuck inta DHS. This might put tha blame for tha disorganation of FEMA on sombody other than O'Boberts emnemy that he likes ta dump on ever chance he gits. O'Bobert is "very obsessed with details and missing the big piccure" I'll be goin away fer a week but I'll be back an waitin for O'Bobert ta persent tha big piccure. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:30 AM LOL, Rufe... And, no, you ***haven't*** answered the question of relevance even one time... By reasking the question over and over and then saying that you've answered why this is important is yer little game, but not an answer... Are you afraid to make an argument of yer own??? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM I done answered yore question severl times but you act like I ain;t so yaa don't have ta answer. O'Bobert: "No disrespect meant, it just seems that you ahve become very obsessed with details and missing the big piccure" What big piccure are ya talkin about O'Bobert?? Are ya just gonna give us that fine details ya are obsessed with? 567 posts on this here thread an O'Bobert still can't or won't tell us how FEMA got ta be part of DHS an why. Either he don't know or he 'fuses cause it will make him look stupid. Cmon Mr expert, Mr. researcher show us your inteligence cause yore silence demontraits tha lack thereof. "The 3 of you is all the same person" nuther WRONG pissant excuse fer not answerin a 100% on topic question. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:42 PM Try Republican John McCain and Republican Curt Weldon, fir starters... And fir the record, director, we all know who you are... Hey, folks 'round here ight have been born at night but not last night... GUEST, director = GUEST, Rufus = GUEST, A... That much is fir sure... How many other GUESTs don't matter much... The 3 of you is all the same person... And, hark, still no answer to O'Bobert's question as to relevance... And the beat goes on, and on, and on and GUEST still ain't gotta clue... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........ Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:02 PM "Where does all the info regarding lack of funding come from?" I do believe that was my first comment in entering this discussion. And, after reviewing this thread, It would appear that Mr. Bobert should be the one to answer. Care to illuminate us? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:03 PM No, not really, Rufe... Like I'ver said over and over I'll be more than happy to respond to yer qwuestion when you have shown it has relevance to this thread... You seem to delight in tryin' to highjack this thread whith stuff that has no relevance... You beat poor ol' P-Gator into the New Orleans mud before you barely explained why he was relevant and then, an only then did I respond to the tangent... Like I say, you explain the relevance of yer question with yer next post and you'll get an answer.... It's you who is playin' the games here, pal, not me... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:13 AM Ain't nobody here Rufus but Rufus an I am waiting fer O'Bobert to anser wif that background on DHS an FEMA. However he caint anser that wifout makin hisself look stupid so he keeps avoidin the answer. He floats like a butterfly wif his chest pumped out an stings like a stingy bee. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:50 AM Yeah, GUEST,D who is realy GUEST, A, GUEST, GUEST, Rufus, GUEST, etc, etc.etc... You folks ain't addin' nuthin' new to the discussion 'cept insignificant little distractive sidebars and tangents... Why didn't you respond to what Senators McCain and Weldon had to say about the poor organization and funding by the Bush administartion for 21st century communication sytems and equipement??? Do you realize that when stuff hits like Katrina or 9/11 that the folks at home watching their TV's know more abnout the bigh picture than those first reponders who in the trenches doing the heavy lifting??? Now I can understand how this could have occured on 9/11 but Katrina??? Inexcusable... Shameful... Lucid 'nuff fir ya??? Or would you just like to continue discussing why Wyoming deserves more per capita $$$ from Bush thru the DHS than does New York City??? Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,D Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:55 AM Well, so much for the concept of lucidity. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:40 PM LOL, GUEST = GUEST, Director = GUEST A = GUEST, Whoever... So ya' figurate that the terrorists are gonna hit Wyoming becuase it's big???? Is that yer final answer??? Yes ________ No ___________ LOL, GUEST... You are entertainin', that much is fir sure... (No, BObert, the terrorists are going to hit Wyoming because Osoma had a dream about the number 1890...) Oh, sheeeeitttt... Not Wyoming, Osama... Please don't run a plane into Wyoming... Hey, you'd prollay kill half a dozen folks!!!! LOL... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:57 PM Again, Wyoming is a State and has been since 1890. I am the one who suggested to you that Wyoming is a State. You were discussing "small towns". And then said "check out Wyoming got". You don't appear to be too lucid at this point in time. Possibly we could continue this 'discussion' tomorrow? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:49 PM I also meant to say that there are two guidelines for funding - population and land mass. Wyoming is the 9th largest State. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:46 PM You are wrong as wrong can be, GUEST... It is both "ruarl" and has "small towns"... Goeography 001 (Non credit, remedial, for students who think that the world is flat and California is an eastern city outside of Chicago, Indiana...) That's 'bout as eat up dumbass as you've been lately, GUEST... Nice work... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:28 PM Wow, very difficult to decipher. First point, Wyoming is not a "smaller town or a rural area". One error for you and more to come. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:06 PM Well, director, if you aren't really GUEST, GUEST A, GUEST Woody 'er GUEST< rufus who may all be the same person, are you aware that per capita federal moneies favor smaller towns and rural areas over the large population centers??? So if yer in a small town, you probably made out quite well... I mean, check out what Wyoming got!!! It's humongous!!! But then again, it votes Republican... But never mind all that political stuff... Hey, one thing that was found during the 9/11 attacks was that first responders were unable to communicate with one another... Right??? The 9/11 CDomission said that in it's report... Now we go back to George Bush as the CEO of this company whoes job it is to make us all safer and guess what??? He and the DHS didn't address the problem of communications... This is just one example of his administartion's failings.... But don't believe me... Believe Senator John McCain and fellow Republican Senator Curt Weldon from Pennsylvavnia... After Katrina they wrote: "The federal government needs to develop a comprhensive, interopable emergeny communications plan and set equipement standards, fund the purchase of emergeny and interoperable communications equipment, and provide additional radio spectrum that will allow first responders to communicate over long distances using the same radio freguencies and equipement." They went on to say, "We can only imagine how an improved communications systems could have aided rescue workers in their efforts to respond to the needs of citizens after Hurrican Katrina." So here we are yet again when Bush has [pumped out his chest] and told the American people that it's his job to protect them and the 9/11 Commission provided him with a bypartisan roadmap in how to do that and yet Republican Seantors John McCain and Curt Weldon write after Katrina that, in essence, the Bush administration hadn't fixed this major problem??? This is all about first resopnse and Katrina showed that Bush and his folks were just praying that something like 9/11 or Katrina wouldn't come along and expose just how little they had done in the way of the heavy lifting and funding the things that the 9/1q1 Comission itself had told them were needed to be organized anf funded in order to "protect the American people"... And, guess what??? If, GUEST, director, you don't want to know more and more about the failings of the Bush folks in regards to Katrina, then vote Republican this November 'cvause if the Dems take the House, yer going to learn alot more stuff that perhaps, if you are Bush supporter, you'd rather have been left under the carpet... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:51 PM How many times you done mentioned DHS and FEMA? O'Bobert syle questionare: _____ I don know. _____ I don care. _____ I am too lazy ta answer. _____ I refuse ta answer on the grounds that it might stand ta incriminates me. Director: Ya can fergit trying to get ansers from O'Bobert. He jest dances an sidesteps em. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM Where does all the info regarding lack of funding come from? The information I have is for my State ( I am involved im the preparedness stuff) and also talk with with other states. The reaction after 9/11 was fantastic with regard to funding - every Township Fire Department received, among other items, full body protection suits with respirators capable of resisting any gas or chemical known to man. Recently the amount of funding for disaster work has been increased even for Northern states. And, according to my budget figures, EVERY year has seen an increase in funding, regardless of events. I am curious. Or, have I fallen for a hoax? New to this Forum and don't know how much 'leg pulling' goes on here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM Relevance, por favor... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM Why did they happin durin the Bush Administration? Who wanted it ta happen? "FEMA became part of DHS" Who What Why Where and When? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:09 AM Amen, Woody... All these things are things I have pointed to in my various arguments and all of these things happened under the Bush administration... The funding cuts, the being taken out of the DHS loop so to speak and the lack of a cohesive plan... Throw in both Bush and Chertoff's loust reaction times and waalaa: Katrinagate... This is scandelous at the very least and should the Dems win back the House of Reps., you can bet that hearuings will reveal that what is out now is just the tip of the iceburg... But great post, Woody, and thanks... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:05 AM http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/29513 The Wrong FEMA Fix By Greg Anrig, Jr. The entire 749-page report of the Collins-Lieberman Committee is now available and it's the most comprehensive chronicle to date synthesizing every mind-boggling failure you've heard about and many, many more. It lacks the stylistic virtues of the 9/11 Commission report, but it's pretty riveting reading nonetheless. Unfortunately, the committee's most important recommendation is completely wrongheaded, as the report itself demonstrates. Instead of retaining the agency's functions within the Department of Homeland Security while renaming it as the National Preparedness and Response Authority – yeah, that'll work much better! -- FEMA should be restored to its pre-DHS incarnation as a separate cabinet-level agency accountable directly to the president. section break Many of the reasons why FEMA's capabilities deteriorated so badly are directly attributable to its inclusion within DHS (recognizing that the selection of crony Joe Allbaugh as its initial pre-9/11 director started the downward spiral in a big way). Here are a few examples from the report: * After FEMA became part of DHS, Secretaries Ridge and Chertoff removed "preparedness" responsibilities from FEMA. Those activities, which include planning and conducting exercises as well as establishing standards, in the past helped to create effective working relationships between FEMA's staff and state and local officials. They also helped everyone to be on the same page when an actual emergency arose. Peeling off those responsibilities and the people who carry them out left FEMA with workers who had a less immediate grasp of whatever plans had been made. Relationships with state and local responders disappeared in the process. Several long-time FEMA officials said that separating the preparedness functions was a huge mistake, and it wouldn't have happened in the absence of turf battles initiated by the creation of DHS. * The highly successful emphasis in the 1990s on an "all-hazards" approach – one in which emergency preparation and response is organized to function the same regardless of the exact nature of particular disaster – dissipated. As part of a department created to focus on terrorism, FEMA's historical mission of dealing almost exclusively with problems created by Mother Nature became diluted by worrying about dirty bombs, sarin attacks, and so forth. It's still possible to retain an all-hazards approach in the context of preparing for terrorism as well -- the committee recommends as much – but the reality is that almost everything FEMA does still relates to a natural disaster. Situating it in an anti-terrorism department has had the effect of excessively complicating the agency's mission. * The report is filled with stories about how FEMA was unable to get adequate funding for staff, procurement, communications, logistics and so forth. That is unsurprising since its move to DHS has made it a small fish in a massive bureaucracy. When FEMA was a cabinet-level agency, with the director having the ear of the president, inadequate funding and staff vacancies were much less of a problem. FEMA used to work about as well as a government agency can, and nothing about 9/11 justified turning a silk purse into a sow's ear. The Committee report continues to talk about all the wonderful "synergies" that keeping FEMA – or NPRA, whatever – in DHS will generate. Synergy was a word that the very same people who pushed for the creation of DHS in the first place used a lot at the time. But so far, we've had nothing but whatever the opposite of synergy is. People who know what they're talking about like Richard Clarke and James Lee Witt think we should save FEMA from DHS, potentially saving a lot of lives in the process. Brownie at least admitted his mistakes, and now Bush, Collins, and Lieberman should admit theirs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:57 PM Yeah, Amos, I read this in the Past this past weekend... Seems that American cities aren't up to evacuatin' inspite of National Response Plans and all the boastin' by the Bushites about what a great job they've done in making the country safer... They haven't done jack... Oh yeah, R%ufe the Goof will argue that local governments are the problem but, no... ... local govrenments are having to take up the slack in paying for stuff that feds, under Bush, says they ain't interested in funding anymore... First repsonders included... Yeah, Bush can talk the talk but he ain't into walkin' the walk... He has cut, cut, cut federal money that has traditionally gone beack to the state and local governemtns to fund is absolutely stupid and evil war against the Iraqi people, mostly women and children.... And he's made danegd sure that his campaign contributors have been taken care of very well... So, seems there's just not a lot of money left for the states, otehr than pork barrel projects for thisd Republican House of Reps. folks to try to buy another couple of years of corrupt power... Yo, Rufe... Had a terrorist cell devistated any American city, lets say with a nuclear device, Bush wouldn't have been anymore prepared... He has talked a good game but bottom line, his folks haven't doen the heavy lifting that is required to put real operational plans in place... This is the crux of my citicism of the Bush administration... After 9/11 they had a wonderful opportunity bothe here and abroad to be a great adminstration but they choze to raid the the treasury rather than do what needed to be done... Period... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:35 PM he Nationwide Plan Review, ordered by President George W. Bush and Congress, examined whether the emergency plans of cities and states were adequate to manage another tragedy. "The majority of the nation's current emergency operations plans and planning processes cannot be characterized as fully sufficient to manage catastrophic events," the report said. "Significant weaknesses in evacuation planning are an area of profound concern," it said, adding that the capabilities to receive and care of large numbers of evacuees were found to be "inadequate." The Department of Homeland Security said in a statement: "Most areas of the country are well-prepared to handle standard situations." But the review findings "demonstrate the need for all levels of government across the country to improve emergency operations plans for catastrophic events such as a major terrorist attack or (top) category-five hurricane strike," it said. "Several areas, including evacuation, attention to populations with special needs, command structure and resource management, were areas needing significant attention," it said. The report also lists measures the federal government needs to take to improve and coordinate disaster planning. The findings "unequivocally support the need to modernize planning processes, products and tools, and to move our national emergency planning efforts to the next level needed for catastrophic events," said George Foresman, the department's under-secretary for preparedness. ... From the Physics Org.comn daily release |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 18 Jun 06 - 11:23 PM I agree he said his job is to pertect the American people, you too, even tho you focus yore destructive lazer beam on him in yore narry little mind. I don't member him pumpin out hiz chest at any time. An it didn't sound like no boast ta me. That's in yore mind. Jus some o yore retric that ya like ta add to tha facts and repeat it over an over so as to brain wash folks inta thinkin its fact. An ya can repeat "not one intellegent rebuttal" bout a hundred times or so an it ain't gona make what don't exist, exist. Ain't nobody goint to disputerate them fax ya dug up. What ya is gonna find is folks that objects to havin the local inept, corruted govnmint / first responders exonerated, gardless of whether you claim it ain't in the opening whatever or in the limits thet you have declared. If Katrina in tha name then anythin about Katrina is on topic. Ya don't mind getin off topic long enuf to rant bout Fox news do ya? No iz there any other question I done missed? If not spoze you start 'splainin bout how FEMA got screwed up cause ya haz talked bout DHS an FEMA umpteen times but only the parts ya needs to prove your nanometer wide needle point Bush attack that you thinks makes you so smart to conjure up. An then ya acuze others of missin tha big piccure. Sheeit. A ant would go blind tryin to see yore piccure. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM You still haven't answered the question, Rufe... Might of fact the more you play yer little rope-a-dope game here the more it would appear that the question the organizational history of FEMA that you keep asking is yet another of yer red herrings... Relevance, por favor... As fir Bush pumping out his chest, hey, unless you are either barin dead or just landed from a far away planet there is no doubt that Bush has boasted over and over and over about how "it is my [his] job to protect the American people"... Do you deny this??? Yes ___ No ____ Let's face it, ol' Rufer, yer position, whatever it is, is getting weaker and weaker with additional post... Pushing 600 posts and still not one intellegent rebuttal??? Hmmmmmmmm, Part 127??? O'Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM #1 How many times has O'bobert refered to DHS an FEMA? Changes to FEMA? Back to tha Clintoon years? I gess he thinks they is revent when he want to bring up hiz own talkin points but he won't elaborate when it might bring some new ligh on the subjict of hiz choosin' #2 Exzample of O'Boberts brain washin: "Yeah, Junior loves to pimp out his chest " "Bush has pumped out his chest and sid over and over and over" "and chest pumpin' out" "Bush goes about pumping out his chest" "go 'round the country pumpin; out one's chest boasting" "Bush loved to pump out his chest and proclaim" "from pumping out his chest saying" "Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest" "a liar who pumped out his chest" Kin you documint where he pimped out hiz chest or do you think we is supposed to think yer rhetoric as a fact? I thinks you iz tha puffy one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:19 AM Will be glad to, Rufe, once you have told the Peanut Gallery why such an inquiry is relevant to this discussion??? Back to Fox... The problem I had with FOX is the repetetive nature of the story... Repetitiveness is the cornerstone of brain-washing... When my buddy was doing other stuff I changed the channels the other networks weren't hung up on just this one aspect of the story... I mean, there was alot of stuff going on to spend so much time on the one story which, face it, plays to the angry white guy base of the Republican Party... Oh, an' BTW, if yer a dad, happy father's day... O'Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:44 PM So Fox was reportin the same things as da other networks? If they is propagandists like O'Bobert says, which by tha way is a deveeation fromm the parables laid down by himself, they should've been reporting somethin difernt. Now O'bobert can go back to sleep cause these Bush apologists he thinks exist don't exist. Theys tha fig newton of tha imagination of liberal wackos. Unless he wants to answer the perfecly Katrina related question about how FEMA got to be Part of DHS and where did DHS come from. An no he didn't already answer that one. You keep yappin about Bus did this to FEAM but ya sirts aroun any factc about why it wus changed around from the old Clintoon glory days. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:45 PM Yeah, the press certainly didn't have a clue... Not that this has anything to do with the discussion at hand but, hey, I was in Thaxton, Mississippi the week of Katrina at a buddy's recording studio recording my current CD and, well, my buddy is a FOX kinda guy... An' for two days straight FOX was reporting that snipers were shooting at doctors and nurses trying to help people at the hospitals??? Yeah, you could almost set yer watch by it... Seemed every 15 minutes it would be another report of sniper shootings... Now, I'm not much on FOX so upon returning to Virginia I went back to my usual news sources, i.e. The Washington Post, New York Times, Pacifica and the internet... By then the sniper stories had been fairly well debunked... Not too sure how much time FOX spent telling its folks that those stories had been debuynked but I'd bet it wasn't near as much as how much coverage they gave the stories during my week in Mississippi... Now back to Bobert patiently awaiting any intellegent rebuttal from the Bush apologists... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........ BObert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:18 AM Then I sneak out to Mudcat when them's is asleep and light stink bombs here in the Catbox... I know I shouldn't do it but |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:58 AM Lies & Distortions: MSM Made A Mess Of Katrina Coverage September 27, 2005 http://66.154.39.102/archives/2005/09/27/173834.php The title is the understatement of the year. While I was working in the Astrodome, Kit was keeping me up-to-date on what was going on in the media. Some of it raised my ire to fever pitch (as displayed in my curse-laden rant about the race-baiting), but most of it left me scratching my head. The rumors of the atrocities being committed in the Superdome were too far-fetched, unsubstantiated, and gruesome to be believed. I personally hated the thought of all blacks being painted with such a sordid brush. That's not because I was in some kind of naive denial, but because I simply didn't believe it of the people of New Orleans - or anyone, for that matter! Plus, I was among the Superdome evacuees everyday and every night, and everyone told me their stories. It was bad and pitiful and scary, but if the rapes and murders were going on like Nagin and his police chief sobbed to a teary Oprah, there is NO WAY there wouldn't have been evidence of such. I remember having that exact conversation with Kit, as she filled me in on the MSM's frenzy. I had the phone pressed to my ear to try and hear above the constant din inside the Astrodome. I kept saying, "No. No way!" as Kit enumerated one rumor after another that was being reported by the press as FACT. I didn't believe it then, and now we all know it was BS. The MSM is now forced to report on it's own irresponsibility in sensationalizing Katrina's aftermath. An article yesterday in the Seattle Times, Reports Of Anarchy At Superdome Overstated states: "The vast majority of reported atrocities committed by evacuees at the Dome — murders, rapes and beatings — have turned out to be false, or at least unsupported by any evidence." Really?? How false? How many dead bodies in the Superdome? Reported: 200 Actual: 6 (4 died from natural causes, 1 from a drug overdose, and 1 apparent suicide) How many murders inside the Superdome & Convention Center? Reported: 40-50 Actual: Superdome = 0, Convention Center = 1 Orleans Parish District Attorney Eddie Jordan said authorities have only confirmed four murders in the entire city in the aftermath of Katrina — making it a typical week in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year. The MSM rumor mill, at its peak, was churning out "news" such as: ...news of unspeakable acts poured out of the nation's media: People firing at helicopters trying to save them; women, children and even babies raped with abandon; people murdered for food and water; a 7-year-old raped and killed at the Convention Center. Police, according to their chief, Eddie Compass, found themselves in multiple shootouts inside both shelters, and were forced to race toward muzzle flashes through the dark to disarm the criminals; snipers fired at doctors and soldiers from downtown high-rises. In interviews with Oprah Winfrey, Compass reported rapes of "babies," and Mayor Ray Nagin spoke of "hundreds of armed gang members killing and raping people" inside the Dome. Other unidentified evacuees told of children stepping over so many bodies "we couldn't count." The picture that emerged was one of the impoverished, overwhelmingly African-American masses of flood victims resorting to utter depravity, randomly attacking each other, as well as the police trying to protect them and the rescue workers trying to save them. The mayor told Winfrey the crowd has descended to an "almost animalistic state." Look at who is starting and perpetuating the rumors and mass panic - the police chief and ever-incompetent mayor!! I have to ask- is this a case of racial self-hatred? Why was it so easy for those guys to feed hysterical rumors of "animalistic" black evacuees? I hardly need to say that if they had been white, such generalizations would've gotten them arrested for HATE SPEECH! Let's take a look at the feeble CYA excuses from both Compass and Nagin, for the mass mis-characterization of their own people. Keep in mind the damage has already been done, but this is what they offer in the way of explanation: "The information I had at the time, I thought it was credible," Compass said, admitting his earlier statements were false. Asked the source of the information, Compass said he didn't remember. Nagin frankly acknowledged he doesn't know the extent of the mayhem that occurred inside the Superdome and the Convention Center — and may never. "I'm having a hard time getting a good body count," he said. Compass conceded that rumor had overtaken, and often crippled, authorities' response to reported lawlessness, sending badly needed resources to situations that turned out not to exist. Much needed resources were diverted on wild-goose chases - really. As if there weren't enough problems, the city leadership created more, vastly worse conditions, because of their own asininity. With such feeble-minded nincompoops in charge of New Orleans, is there any question at all why chaos reigned? And I can't wait to hear what Oprah has to say about her overt help in the creation of an "animalistic" stereotype of her own people in the aftermath of Katrina. That deserves an Emmy, don't ya think? Military, law-enforcement and medical workers agree that the flood of evacuees — about 30,000 at the Dome and an estimated 10,000 to 20,000 at the Convention Center — overwhelmed their security personnel. The 400 to 500 soldiers in the Dome could have been easily overrun by increasingly agitated crowds in the Dome, but that never happened, said Col. James Knotts, a mid-level commander there. While the Convention Center saw plenty of mischief, including massive looting and isolated gunfire, and many inside cowered in fear, the hordes of evacuees for the most part did not resort to violence. Oh well. Nevermind the truth. I have to add, that at this point in the story, while National Guardsmen were patrolling the Superdome, they were being vilified by the press as randomly shooting people in the streets. I heard one rumor in the Astrodome about a 16 year old boy approaching some soldiers for help and being shot in the head for his trouble. Why is such a lie so easy for the media to believe and report? Because, in the mass media's value system, American soldiers are murderers and criminals. This goes back to the hysterical reporting of so-called tortures and murders - but that's another story we've already covered ad nauseum. Let me tell you what the evacuees in the Astrodome were saying about the media's coverage - they started to believe it. I can't tell you how many times I heard someone curse Bush for his "hatred of blacks" (thanks for that crap legacy, Kanye) or mutter about the country's "abandonment" of our poor blacks. It made me sick to my stomach, but with the way the media was pounding away at those themes, it was impossible to refute! In an article today in the LA Times, Katrina Takes A Toll On Truth, News Accuracy confirms more of the media's irresponsibility in reporting unconfirmed rumors as FACT. The National Guard spokesman's [MAJ Ed Bush's] accounts about rescue efforts, water supplies and first aid all but disappeared amid the roar of a 24-hour rumor mill at New Orleans' main evacuation shelter. Then a frenzied media recycled and amplified many of the unverified reports. "It just morphed into this mythical place where the most unthinkable deeds were being done," Bush said Monday of the Superdome. His assessment is one of several in recent days to conclude that newspapers and television exaggerated criminal behavior in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, particularly at the overcrowded Superdome and Convention Center. The New Orleans Times-Picayune on Monday described inflated body counts, unverified "rapes," and unconfirmed sniper attacks as among examples of "scores of myths about the dome and Convention Center treated as fact by evacuees, the media and even some of New Orleans' top officials." So, let's play the blame game for a sec. Who does the media blame for their shoddy, sensationalistic rag reporting? Why, the telephones, of course: Journalists and officials who have reviewed the Katrina disaster blamed the inaccurate reporting in large measure on the breakdown of telephone service, which prevented dissemination of accurate reports to those most in need of the information. Race may have also played a factor. I emphasized that last sentence because it was slipped in there as if the authors almost wanted the reader to overlook it. But that single statement is probably the most truth that's come out of the media in a looooooong time. Yes, of course, race played a factor. Racial prejudice is what lay at the root of the media's creation of the myth of blacks in New Orleans as out-of-control "animals". The reports coming out of New Orleans highlighted the racial prejudice of the reporters THEMSELVES! All that race-baiting they were doing, "Bush hates blacks", etc., was really nothing more than a sanctimonious cover for their own deeply-seated prejudices! And in the case of Nagin, Compass, and Oprah - what is their excuse? What made it so damn easy for them to instantly believe those grossest of rumors, when someone like me [a bad old Whitey] heard them and immediately said, "No way!"? Don't even get me started on asshats Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and all that stupid talk about the holds of slave ships. All those self-anointed black leader from Oprah to Compass to Jackson need to look deep inside at the ugly truth - they dealt their own people mortal PR wounds. They, themselves, set their own "movement" back about 200 years. How much sunshine and daisies will they have to produce to overcome the animalistic stereotype of their own people that they created out of thin air?!!!! Times-Picayune Editor Jim Amoss cited telephone breakdowns as a primary cause of reporting errors, but said the fact that most evacuees were poor African Americans also played a part. "If the dome and Convention Center had harbored large numbers of middle class white people," Amoss said, "it would not have been a fertile ground for this kind of rumor-mongering." Some of the hesitation that journalists might have had about using the more sordid reports from the evacuation centers probably fell away when New Orleans' top officials seemed to confirm the accounts. Yes, yes, yes - we got that now. But... what of the liberal media itself? What does their overtly sensationalized reporting say about them? Hyperbolic reporting spread through much of the media. Fox News, a day before the major evacuation of the Superdome began, issued an "alert" as talk show host Alan Colmes reiterated reports of "robberies, rapes, carjackings, riots and murder. Violent gangs are roaming the streets at night, hidden by the cover of darkness." The Los Angeles Times adopted a breathless tone the next day in its lead news story, reporting that National Guard troops "took positions on rooftops, scanning for snipers and armed mobs as seething crowds of refugees milled below, desperate to flee. Gunfire crackled in the distance." The New York Times repeated some of the reports of violence and unrest, but the newspaper usually was more careful to note that the information could not be verified. The tabloid Ottawa Sun reported unverified accounts of "a man seeking help gunned down by a National Guard soldier" and "a young man run down and then shot by a New Orleans police officer." London's Evening Standard invoked the future-world fantasy film "Mad Max" to describe the scene and threw in a "Lord of the Flies" allusion for good measure. How on earth does the media think they have an ounce of credibility with anyone anymore? They got caught up in their own hype and frenzy! It was an ugly self-perpetuating cycle. I saw it happen again with the non-stop Rita coverage. There was that same breathless, eager overtone to ALL the reports of Rita's path of destruction. I know - the media lives for this stuff. Death and destruction are the money shots for them. They're always thinkin', "Show me the money!" But for you liberal moonbats out there - doesn't this stop you short when you listen to the news reports coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan?! I mean, c'mon - you simply cannot believe the absolute crap the media reports as truth. The media's hidden biases have been exposed by Katrina the way nothing else could have. In the case of the New Orleans coverage - Katrina exposed the majority of the media as racist bastards, at a time when they were calling the rest of red America "racists". Is that a generalization? Hell yeah, it is! And a fair one, too- supported by the actions and shenanigans of the media itself! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:22 AM Thanks, Woody... If you'll reread yer War "n Peace lenght cut an' post you'll find testimony from Ray Naygan that supports the very argument I have made here that has never been refuted... But that's going to make you real yer own cut 'n paste which I know is bothersome... Yo, Rufe, Relevance, por favor, to the discusssion, pal... You make a convincing and reasonable argument for why your question is related to Bush's failures an' I'll be glad to answer it but for you to just create red herrings, like P-Gator being a spokesman (which I never suggetsed) for the folks of New Orleans, is just your way of trying to create distractions... You know, like the quotes you are gleefully posting from thngs I've said over the course of this long thread... Bottom line, you can post another list of quotes but gues what??? Give up??? None of these quotes shows that I have devioated one inch from the original argument that I put forward and for which I am still awaiting a reasonable-- meaning being relevant and at least somewhat informed-- rebuttal... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Peace Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM It oughta tell y'all something about your government: It's impossible to get a straight answer outta the fu#kers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:34 AM From: Bobert Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:00 PM Snipers, Duck????? Oh, Fox never got around to retracting the "Snipers Lie"... http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation Gunmen fire at medical workers and patients at Charity Hospital Thursday, September 1, 2005; Posted: 5:36 p.m. EDT (21:36 GMT) NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- The evacuation of patients from Charity Hospital was halted Thursday after the facility came under sniper fire twice. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4828774 Looting, Snipers Mar New Orleans Evacuation All Things Considered, September 1, 2005 · The situation in New Orleans continues to deteriorate, with widespread flooding and looting. The evacuation of thousands of people from the Superdome in the city was halted early Thursday when shots were fired at military helicopters. There are reports of armed carjackings. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:32 AM Thanks Woody. Another three yards and you'll have a touchdown. Aside from throwing around yards and yards, what point is it that you are seeking to make? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 17 Jun 06 - 12:18 AM http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/05/ltm.01.html MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Carol. I'm Miles O'Brien. A grim mission in New Orleans. Teams going house-by-house to find the victims of Katrina who couldn't escape in time. The death toll expected to be in the thousands. How high could it go? Frightening to imagine. We're live in New Orleans this morning -- Soledad. SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. This morning, you're going to hear my interview with the city's mayor. He'll tell us very candidly about his response before Katrina hit. Is he responsible for some of the blame? Also, we'll hear some details of the conversation that he had with the state's governor and President Bush on Air Force One. That's ahead -- Miles. M. O'BRIEN: And President Bush in the disaster zone again Friday and will be back there today. That's on this AMERICAN MORNING......... S. O'BRIEN: There are people who say your evacuation plan, obviously in hindsight, was disastrous. MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: Which one? S. O'BRIEN: Your evacuation plan before -- when you put people into the Superdome. It wasn't thought out. You got 20,000 people in there. And that you bear the brunt of the blame for some of this, a large chunk of it. NAGIN: Look, I'll take whatever responsibility that I have to take. But let me ask you this question: When you have a city of 500,000 people, and you have a category 5 storm bearing down on you, and you have the best you've ever done is evacuate 60 percent of the people out of the city, and you have never issued a mandatory evacuation in the city's history, a city that is a couple of hundred years old, I did that. I elevated the level of distress to the citizens. And I don't know what else I could do, other than to tell them that it's a mandatory evacuation. And if they stayed, make sure you have a frigging ax in your home, where you can bust out the roof just in case the water starts flowing. And as a last resort, once this thing is above a category 3, there are no buildings in this city to withstand a category 3, a category 4 or a category 5 storm, other than the Superdome. That's where we sent people as a shelter of last resort. When that filled up, we sent them to the Convention Center. Now, you tell me what else we could have done. S. O'BRIEN: What has Secretary Chertoff promised you? What has Donald Rumsfeld given you and promised you? NAGIN: Look, I've gotten promises to -- I can't stand anymore promises. I don't want to hear anymore promises. I want to see stuff done. And that's why I'm so happy that the president came down here, because I think they were feeding him a line of bull also. And they were telling him things weren't as bad as it was. He came down and saw it, and he put a general on the field. His name is General Honore. And when he hit the field, we started to see action. And what the state was doing, I don't frigging know. But I tell you, I am pissed. It wasn't adequate. And then, the president and the governor sat down. We were in Air Force One. I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two have to get in sync. If you don't get in sync, more people are going to die.' S. O'BRIEN: What date was this? When did you say that? When did you say... NAGIN: Whenever air Force One was here. S. O'BRIEN: OK. NAGIN: And this was after I called him on the telephone two days earlier. And I said, 'Mr. President, Madam Governor, you two need to get together on the same page, because of the lack of coordination, people are dying in my city.' S. O'BRIEN: That's two days ago. NAGIN: They both shook -- I don't know the exact date. They both shook their head and said yes. I said, 'Great.' I said, 'Everybody in this room is getting ready to leave.' There was senators and his cabinet people, you name it, they were there. Generals. I said, 'Everybody right now, we're leaving. These two people need to sit in a room together and make a doggone decision right now.' S. O'BRIEN: And was that done? NAGIN: The president looked at me. I think he was a little surprised. He said, "No, you guys stay here. We're going to another section of the plane, and we're going to make a decision." He called me in that office after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- and I don't remember exactly what. There were two options. I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision. S. O'BRIEN: You're telling me the president told you the governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision? NAGIN: Yes. S. O'BRIEN: Regarding what? Bringing troops in? NAGIN: Whatever they had discussed. As far as what the -- I was abdicating a clear chain of command, so that we could get resources flowing in the right places. S. O'BRIEN: And the governor said no. NAGIN: She said that she needed 24 hours to make a decision. It would have been great if we could of left Air Force One, walked outside, and told the world that we had this all worked out. It didn't happen, and more people died. Times-Picayune http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/print076943.html Sunday, September 04, 2005 Nagin said slow response cost lives Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005 7:57 p.m. Frustrated and grieving, Mayor Ray Nagin on Sunday again ripped the painfully slow response of state and federal authorities to the plight of tens of thousands of stranded New Orleanians in the days following Hurricane Katrina, saying their inaction cost lives and caused needless misery. Nagin singled out Gov. Kathleen Blanco for criticism, saying that the governor had asked for 24 hours to think over a decision when time was a luxury that no one, especially refugees, had. "When the president and the governor got here, I said, 'Mr. President, Madame Governor, you two have to get in synch. If you don't, more people are going to die." Blanco and Bush met privately at his insistence, Nagin said, after which Bush came out and told Nagin that he had given Blanco two options, and she requested a full day to decide. "It would have been great if we could have walked off Air Force One and told the world we had it all worked out," Nagin said. "It didn't happen, and more people died." Police spokesman Capt. Marlon Defillo said Sunday that "about a dozen" corpses were being taken out of the Superdome. The convention center "has not been swept yet," he said. Apart from the deaths, Nagin said people needlessly suffered, particularly at the Dome. "There was suffering at an unprecedented level in this city, at this place and at the convention center," he said. "This is one of the richest countries in the world. I'm looking at my city and I see death and destruction, and I see a lot of it. And I'm pissed." Nagin said while much of the suffering was borne by poor people, it would be a mistake to think it was limited to the poor. "When the final script is written, they're going to see that everyone suffered," he said. "Not just black people - white people, Hispanics, people from Italy. At the convention center, you had tourists, you had people from hospitals, you had a mixture of people." Asked whether he himself bore responsibility for the debacle, Nagin responded: "I'll take what responsibility I have to take. But let me ask you this: When you have a city of 500,000 people, and you have a Category 5 bearing down on you, and the best you've ever done is evacuate 60 percent of the people… and there's never been a mandatory evacuation in this city's history. "I did that, and I elevated the level of stress to the citizens. I said to make sure you have a fricking axe in your house. And as a last resort, there are no buildings in the city to withstand a Category 3 storm other than the Superdome, and when that filled up, we started sending them to the convention center. You tell me what else I was supposed to do." Nagin said the government needs to learn quickly from its nightmarishly slow reaction to Katrina. "Our response to a significant disaster is appalling," he said. "What went down is a national and state disgrace." The mayor said his next fear is that the decomposing bodies of those who died in the storm and its wake will spread disease, via mosquitoes, across the region if the corpses aren't picked up soon. Again, he feels the response has lagged. "I requested a crop duster as soon as possible," the mayor said. "I still don't see a plane flying. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:35 PM O'Bobert misses "the big piccure" Won't answer any questions about how FEMA got to be part of DHS. In tha real world one way jerks don't need to answer questions. All they got to do is repeat them selves over and over and over. "Yeah, Junior loves to pimp out his chest " "Bush has pumped out his chest and sid over and over and over" "and chest pumpin' out" "Bush goes about pumping out his chest" "go 'round the country pumpin; out one's chest boasting" "Bush loved to pump out his chest and proclaim" "from pumping out his chest saying" "Bush didn't mind pumping out his chest" "a liar who pumped out his chest" Funny I never seen him pump out hiz chest even once. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 16 Jun 06 - 11:15 PM GWB screwed up royally |
