BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:33 PM

Heck, I'm 100 times more a socialist than Obama so at the rate he's going he ain't gonna even achieve beginner's status by the time he's finished his second term... But maybe a few lessons from George Bush wouild help...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

Any teachings from Bush would entail Obama having a lobotomy before the lesson, else he wouldn't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:54 PM

If he was a socialist, all the more reason to vote for him. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:53 PM

"You might as well say that Obama discombobulates"

shhhh...I have heard he engages in public gesticulation!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:55 PM

Yeah, well, Sarah Palin was defenstrated at an early age by a male family member.

SHe was just lucky they lived in a single-level ranchhouse at the time and her bedroom was in the back out of public view, down close to the ground.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:59 PM

Good thing there were no loose moose outside at the time!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:22 PM

Canadians have been praying for years that a socialist would get elected to the US presidency and finally straighten out that mess down there and provide Americans with a decent health insurance system.

Perhaps our prayers are about to be answered! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM

So.."double entendres" are OK as long as its not homosexuals or blacks?
Attractive women with a bit of power are fair game?
You're a sad lot.
Why don't you confine yourselves to sneering at her spelling mistakes
or lack of academic qualifications.

Some of the wisest old folks I knew were completely uneducated

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:19 PM

?? which double entendres? I am reading back and fail to see your referent.


With even conservative journalists writing columns about Palin's flaws and mistakes, I don't feel like we are saying too much.


"Some of the wisest old folks I knew were completely uneducated"

and some of the dumbest. There are wise and hopelessly stupid ones at all levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 04:55 PM

I wanted to notify y'all that I voted today for the Marijuana Party--so put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

Actually, I voted for the Green Party. They ain't gonna win, but for a moment there I helped keep the dream alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:09 PM

I was listening to NPR earlier today - ok, so half of you guys think NPR is part of the vast left-wing conspiracy and the other half consider it to be part of the Rupert Murdoch-controlled Main Stream Media...and then there is the 1/2 of one percent who consider the vast left-wing conspiracy and the MSM to be the same thing, but they are really wierd...anyway, they were discussing the factoid that both Senator Obama and Senator McCain list For Whom the Bell Tolls as a favorite book, and consider Hemingway's protagonist to be a personal hero.

For those who haven't read it, or who have forgotten 7th grade Lit, he died fighting in Spain against the Fascists in the late 1930s. For decades, anyone who fought on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War was almost automatically considered a Commie Pinko Abraham Lincoln Brigade member. Joe Offer, you out there? Remember the Enemies List? So then, what does it say about both of our presidential candidates, that they think so highly of this guy?

Did you say "it doesn't say anything"? Congratulations, you win the rubber chicken!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:09 PM

There are wise and hopelessly stupid ones at all levels.
-

One has to wonder who is running the hopelessly stupid McCain campaign.

Take the campaign's targeting of ACORN.

Did McCain forget that he was a keynote speaker for an ACORN sponsored rally as late as Feb. 2006? If he forgot, why didn't his aids remember this before they tried to make ACORN the boogy man?

Check out this video and comments including this one:
"October 13, 2008, Miami, FL - U.S. Senator John McCains recent attacks on the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) are puzzling given his historic support for the organization and its efforts on behalf of immigrant Americans. As recently as February 20, 2006, Senator McCain was the keynote speaker at an ACORN-sponsored Immigration Rally in Miami, Florida at Miami Dade"
-Baylan72

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9wy2MI1NI&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/14/11030/966/664/629886

**

But actually, I think that McCain's main problem is bad judgment.

Take Ayers for example. I really hope that McCain brings up Ayers during the debate tomorrow. That will allow Obama to bring up these points that Republican Andrew Sullivan wrote about in his latest blog entry:

14 Oct 2008 12:46 pm
Republicans Who Fund Bill Ayers

"I think Obama's relatively weak but nonetheless real interactions with William Ayers are a legitimate campaign issue. But Obama's best response, after telling the facts of the relationship, is to point out who else supported him. Republican machers Walter and Leonora Annenberg gave the former terrorist $50 million. They also gave money to Rick Santorum, Strom Thurmond and Mitt Romney. Annenberg was Nixon's ambassador to Britain. If Obama is "palling around with terrorists," the Republican Annenbergs are funding them.

Yesterday, the McCain campain put out a press release boasting that Leonore Annenberg had just endorsed him for president. Why is McCain happy to accept the endorsement of a funder of terrorism?"

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/republicans-who.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

I am getting a bit sick of the lunatic right who use the term "socialism" as an insult. Socialism is a fine and dignified philosphy that allows the dignity of each human individual, and supposes that no human should be allowed to fall blow a decent standard. Those who demean it would have us all as pigs grubbing in the trough with the most unpleasant getting the most swill. It is that cast of mind that justifies violent revolution against the exploiters. They have taken by force or fraud from the poor for generations. Let those who have sown the wind reap the whirlwind.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:24 PM

That is a brilliant post, Richard. You got a standing ovation from this old boy.

Lyrics to a song I'm working on--on and off:

"Begone, begone you neocons
And take these billionaires
I have watched you from the moment of my birth
And I have seen the riches that
Your corporate sons of bitches have
Stolen from the people of this Earth."

Really good post, man. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Deckman
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:42 PM

One of the ironies that is inescapable in President bush's economic plan is that now ... like it or not ... the feds are taking controll of the private banking arena. That certainly sounds "socialistic" to me. bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM

Socialism means stuff such as nationalising banks if need be...

From today's paper "Washington declared yesterday that it would partially nationalise America's biggest banks to try to avert the melt-down of the entire US financial system"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:37 PM

Richard, Richard, Richard,

Ain't it the Repub's God given duty to demonize words??? This is the only way they can win anything at all... They take a few words, demonize them with their vast control of right-winged talk shows and that's all it takes...

MiziAzizi,

Speaking of demonizin', ACORN is about to get the Repub treatment and over the next week thet right winged radio folks are gonna' demonize it and let loose all their little parrots to go out into their communities and blast the crap outta ACORN... Nevermind that it ***is*** the registrar who has to sift thru the registration forms before adding someone to the voting roles... Nevermind that less than 1% will be found to have no actual person exist... No, we are going to hear all about how the Dallas Cowboy's entire team wwas turned in by someone who ***supposedly*** was an ACORN worker...

No, what the Repubs are doing is trying to create a situation where if things are close in one state that they will have sympathy if the recount goes to court... The Repub lawyers are very good at stealing lections... Heck, they should be... They have alot of experience...

So ACORN will go down this year with socialism...

My thoughts to the crooked Repub lawyers??? Demonize THIS!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:41 PM

I have not got my glasses. Was your middle finger in the air when you said that, Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:14 PM

Obama is a socialist, you say?

God, I hope so!! One more reason to vote for him!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:29 PM

Well, Brucie... The ol' me woulda certainly had the middle finger in the air but Obama done settled the ol' me down some but not to worry 'cause...

...it's never far from my thoughts...

.1..

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:30 PM

Nor mine, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:44 PM

I's about time!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM

So is McCain and his surrogates calling Obama a socialist and badmouthing ACORN to change the subject from Troopergate, Palin and her husband's connections to the secessionist Alaska Independent Party and this? :


McCain Transition Chief Aided Saddam In Lobbying Effort
-Murray Wass

October 14, 2008

"William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government...

Timmons' activities occurred in the years following the first Gulf War, when Washington considered Iraq to be a rogue enemy state and a sponsor of terrorism. His dealings on behalf of the deceased Iraqi leader stand in stark contrast to the views his current employer held at the time...

As Time magazine's Michael Scherer recently reported, Timmons is "a Washington institution," having worked as a senior aide to every Republican president since Richard Nixon. He also serves as chairman emeritus of Timmons and Company, "a small but influential lobbying firm he founded in 1975 shortly after leaving the White House."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html

-snip-

So McCain not only pals around but hires a lobbyist that was under contract with Sadaam Hussein? No wonder McCain wants to change the subject.
So

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:54 PM

Correction:

The journalist's correct name is Murray Waas.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:58 PM

That excellent, bringing that to light, Azizi. Thanks.

Richard, Loved your post!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

Forgot to post a link to an excellent take on Palin from the Guardian:

clickety.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:03 PM

Well, Miz... I donno... Troopergate, afetr Bush, ain't much of a story... We all figured that the gal had more skeltons in her closet than Carter has liver pills so I don't think there is anything that couole be found out about Ms. Sarah, including nude pics, that would have any impact on her rabid Brown Shirt followers but...

... I am concerned that the Repubs are setting up for a repeat of 2000 if they come ven close with their attacks on ACORN.... I think these attacks are worth alot more effort on defending than Ms. S's past bad behavior... Face it, her supporters are "true believin' rednecks" who won't believe anything that is founf out about her past... That's what makes true believers... They don't care about facts...

ACORN, however, is defendable... At least for now...

That's my take on it, anyway...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:16 AM

"I'm not happy with the fact that the Democrats allowed themselves to be snowed"

Who voted against it and who voted for it the fist time around?

Are you making apologies for the dumb ass Democrats and at the same time claiming they are so much better than the Republicans? That's a real hoot.

In the past two years while Republicans were warning of impending disaster and asking for reform the Democratic majority did nothing but whine and accept money from lobbyists and Wall streeters.

If not, tell me exactly what they have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 AM

I thought the first time around didn't matter. That's what I've been told quite a few times by the above poster in another thread. No, we don't consider who voted the first time. We only consider who voted for or against the final bill, or so I am told. And the final bill had bipartisan support. Almost equal support in the Senate, and substantial Republican support in the House.

I'm not making apologies for the Democrats. They've done their share of terrible things. But I know which kinds of terrible things the Democrats are responsible for, and which kinds of terrible things the Republicans are responsible for. And in the case of the current economic situation in the US (and around the world), that is mostly the baby of the Republican party, and it is entirely the product of the Republican political and economic philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:59 AM

IMO, they have been at the trough along with the rest of 'em. hard to find soemone who isn't tainted with supporting slave labour by buying chocolate from the Cote d'Ivoire or shoes from Thailand. The neocons have done their job well. Time to stop playing the game they want us to.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:22 AM

They all are, and working for the same agenda. One uses the brain police, and the other a police state, with the brain police! Time for a real change, back to true patriotism, freedom, and liberty!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:25 AM

I knew I liked you. Still do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

"rabid Brown Shirt followers"

That must be the Obama truth squads:

The Obama folks have a VERY large organization, part of their Truth Squad. that is exclusively dedicated to watching for blog entries that appear anywhere that are about Sarah Palin. Once spotted, they leave nasty comments and IM others in the group to come "pile on". It's going to get worse - they attack and attempt to silence freedom of speech on a daily basis.

It's shocking to watch the Democrats morph into an organization that copies, almost verbatim, tactics straight from the National Socialism playbook. Sadly, I suspect that most people have no idea of what is going on here - most people do not recognize the signs of what is happening right here in America today. Students of history should be able to recognize these signs - they are observing a new incarnation of the NSDAP taking shape right before their eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:45 AM

You should request Joe Offer, to send you, or re-post a post I did on the 'Time waster' thread.....everyone here, just about peed their pants laughing, because it was so-o-o true!...About the Game, people play, on this blog(actually, a lot of blogs)..and how one accumulates points, and wins! I swear, the other musicians here, (and non musicians), were laughing to tears, and couldn't catch their breaths!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM

"No, we don't consider who voted the first time"

I was told that the second time did not matter so which way do you want it? Obviously both ways.

Or have you backed off of your position?

And did the bailout pass overwhelmingly like GLBA or just squeak by?

Just like the vote to go to war, Democrats want to run hide behind the Republicans because they lack courage and then later on they start calling them names and blaming everything on them if something goes wrong.

How many years before Bush took office were the blowhard Democrats beating their chests and swearing about those WMDs that Saddam had? Now they lack the moral fiber to admit they were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:17 AM

WMD's??? Look, they knew the Iraqis had them...they have the sales receipts! During the Iran-Iraqi war, we sold stuff to both sides..well, not 'we'...they....well, I didn't mean 'we', as in 'We the people...' Come to think of it,..are they us??..Are we them?...If not, who are we voting for?..them??..or one of 'us'..you know, 'We'......I do-o-o-n't think so-o-o-........WMD's?....oh, you meant 'Words of Mass Deception', Yeah, THEY have plenty of them!...'Vote for me'...'Vote for me'!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:32 AM

Walt Kelly was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:45 AM

Umm, who was Walt Kelly?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:23 AM

Walt Kelly was the creator of Pogo, a character and in a comic strip of the same name. IMO, Kelly was an adept and bright social commentator in the course of his cartooning career. He died about 30 years ago.

The strip I alluded to is linked to below. That particular page is framed by people on occasion. I don't know whether it's a 'famous' cartoon, but it was certainly well known years back.

Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:40 AM

Ahh yes, that was a famous line..however, in the context I was using it,
once 'they' divide us...are we still them???? ..I'm so blown away, at all the bullshit believers in here!..they even defend themselves, as to the right and ability, to believe their lies...well, the DO have the right..but have you noticed that the most 'liberal' ones, are not very 'liberal' at all....just a bunch of stopped-up ear parrots, with absolutely no...I mean NO tolerance for another point of view???? Wow!, aren't they so hip??...open minded, and 'liberal'.....Reminds me of an old Phil Oches tune, named 'Love Me, Love Me, Love me, I'm a Liberal' Look it up online.
As for me, I'm conservative on my liberalism, and liberal on my conservatism......or something like that.....actually, I'm pretty free. Free to create, Free to understand, and free to adjust...free to move on, beyond political bondage.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:45 AM

Can't have it both ways. Either the first vote counts or it doesn't. Which is it?

For a long time, I've been saying that the Democrats and the Republicans all work for the same people. And up until now, I believe that this was true. But at this point in history, I see a shift in those dynamics. Because of the internet and because of how the internet makes it possible for large numbers of people to make an impact with few resources, I see changes in that dynamic in this election cycle.

The whole Republican philosophy is about redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top, consolidation of power to a few at the top, and exploiting people and resources at the expense of the world and the masses. The Democrats have been guilty of some of these things, but that's not their entire philosophy. Although they haven't always been true to their core philosophy (Bill Clinton being one example), their core philosophy, when practiced, makes life better for a lot of people.

When Republicans behave in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, a lot of people suffer. When Democrats behave in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, life gets better for a lot of people. As with cigarettes, there's no good reason to have a party like the Republican party - when used as intended, people suffer. When the Democrats are behaving in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, there's a lot of good reasons to have a party like the Democratic party.

I see a big shift happening in the Democratic party right now, a shift that is created by the fact that all of our politicians know they're vulnerable right now, and the voters - in particular, the Democratic voters - are starting to hold their feet to the fire.

If Republicans hold the Republicans' feet to the fire, nothing changes, because the Republicans have been doing what their core constituency wanted. If Democrats (and non-Democrats who have voted for Democrats) hold the Democratic politicians feet to the fire, the Democratic politicians will have to start behaving in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, and a lot of people will benefit from that.

It might not work, but it's definitely worth a try. We need a large Democratic majority in both the House and Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:51 AM

CarolC, your post was dizzying. You were right, originally. It's not a matter of taste, it's a matter of perception dysfunction...same as in music, why some people block out certain kinds of music, and cannot see anything in any other form other than the one they focused on to like...get larger, expand, lower the blockages of understanding...they need you, more than you need them!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:56 AM

Yes, but in so many ways we have all been caught up in the sides and parties. There is essentially little distance between them. There have been processions of mediocre and harmful governments in the US and elsewhere. The 'common' enemies imo for all humankind are neocons and big corporations. They are rich enough to manipulate markets over long periods of time relatively speaking, and much of what governments do is at their behest and for THEIR good, not that of humankind in general. Hence, we have met the enemy . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:59 AM

Sorry. There were two posts that which appeared while I was writing that deathless prose. Just thought I'd share that with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:05 AM

I think it's not I who needs to expand. I think it's the above poster who needs expanding. I see things happening that are new and that are not a part of any old dynamic. How long it takes these new dynamics to prevail is anyone's guess, but they will prevail eventually. And it really doesn't matter how much people think they can make it happen or prevent it from happening. None of that matters. It's happening, it's going to happen, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. At this point in history, the more people thrash about trying to impose their will on the development of humanity, the more they just shoot themselves in their own feet. This is new and it's allowing a lot of very important changes to take place.

The expansion is people recognizing the power they have themselves and using that power to create better outcomes within their own spheres of influence. I even see that happening with some of the people who have been working the hardest to retard human development for so long. Everybody is changing, whether they like it or not. Some are struggling a lot harder than others and resisting the changes, but they won't be able to do that indefinitely. They will wear themselves out trying and then they will give up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:06 AM

I said above poster, but I am not referring anything in the posts directly above my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:28 AM

That's cool, Carol, but thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: kendall
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:56 AM

This latest round of deregulation started with Ronald (the actor) Reagan. "Get the government off our backs". (and into our bedrooms)

As I understand it, McCain and Phil Gramm finished the job. They let the fox into the henhouse, and now they are saying the democrats did it. Everyone knows that democrats are for regulations (to protect the poor from the rich) and that republicans want free rein to do whatever they want in business. Those are basic facts.
Capitalism has failed. (As Li'l Abner would say, "As any fool can plainly see."

"The republican party was created to rescue the working man from the clutches of the greedy land owner." (A. Lincoln"

This crap about redistribution of the wealth is a smoke screen No one is advocating that. The rich have been screwing the poor for centuries. That's how they got rich in the first place!

When asked which is more important, labor or capital, A. Lincoln said, "Capital is the result of, and could not exist without labor. Therefore, labor is more important."

Capitalism has failed due to its own greed. Socialism is on the horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

PEDANT ALERT !!
The actual Lincoln quote is:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. {First Annual Message to Congress,December 3, 1861}

and its worth quoting in its entirety (with apologies to Kendall)

This only points up how far the current Repubs have strayed from the principles the party was founded upon with their pandering to the lunatic fundagelical right & etc. and makes their constant harping on "the party of Lincoln" all the more sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

This is my illustration of money http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/money3.jpg