BS: Don Imus replacment

Subject: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:37 PM

Since his comment regarding a women's college basketball team as "Tattooed knappy hos" country western political shock jock Don Imus will soon be fired. His show was famous for mesoginistic and racist and bawdy comments.

I am sure their are plenty of good candidates right here to take his job albeit with a different format of humor.

So far the applicants are few such as; ex Senator Allen, John Savage and Mark Richards, but I am sure who ever takes Don's chair will be welcomed by his usual gang of guests.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

I nominate Sorcha and Ebbie with Dave as the color man.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

"Tattooed knappy hos"

And here's me not even knowing what the heck that's supposed to mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:47 PM

Tattooed = having tattooes on the body
knappy (should be nappy) = referring the the condition of the hair of some Africans and African-Americans
hos = street slang for whores

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

dianavan and Peace can be the standing in house guests while Teribus and beardedbruce can be the conservative back board for outrageous commentary.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:49 PM

Um, on second thought, Rapaire might in fact make the best color man.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:50 PM

Won't be missed.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:51 PM

Ah! I DID suspect the "tattooed" part had some relation to "tattoos" ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:51 PM

...and he threw in 'jigaboos' for good measure, claiming Spike Lee had used in it a film. Spike Lee says "I used those terms for a specific purpose...Imus doesn't know what he's talking about".

Imus is a quirky, eccentric character, and he 'seems' to think everyone will just excuse stupidity as, "oh, that's just Imus." And Imus wonders why he is reduced to groveling before Al Sharpton! *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM

Heck, I'm not sure what "mesoginistic" means...

"middle of a bottle of gin", maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 06:55 PM

Imus degrades and insults women for sport.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:01 PM

It looks like he will only be suspended for 2 weeks.
Oh well. catters would have made a nuch better show hyping folk music instead of CW.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:31 PM

I can't stand him anyway. He sits there under that oversized hat mumbling. I've never heard him say anything worth remembering.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:42 PM

He has been a creep and a tyrant to his staff while on the other hand has funded several philanthropic programs that help kids with cancer and wounded vets.
Maybe its only a tax dodge but that might be unfair.




not all Dons are bigots

Don Imus
Don Rickels
Don Juan
Don Firth
Don Hackman

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 08:17 PM

I have liked Don Imus since the 60s when he was so drugged and drunk that he was constantly being penalized, fired and re-hired because he brought in the ratings. Fond memories of detouring away from the 59th Street Bridge because Imus announced a serious problem - turned out to be Moby Worm, one of his characters. I was pissed! And late for work.
Billy Sol Hargis - "Put your hands on the radio and you shall be saved!" Along with Bar-B-Que communion wafers for the black congregation.
He is opinionated and egotistical but it is fun to see him ask questions of top politicians like "How many Congressman have to vote in favor for a bill to be passed?" They never know and they get very angry. But they keep coming back.
At his worst he doesn't come close to Howard Stern's filthy look at the world.
His suspension will cost them ratings and listeners. Tempest in a tea pot.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 08:31 PM

Black rappers say the same sort of offensive thing every day and the media looks the other way. Hmmm.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 09:07 PM

Here's a post from this dailykos diary Breaking: Imus just got suspended by edie Mon Apr 09, 2007http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/9/185117/7812 that lists examples of Imus' history of racial comments:

"Imus - The Man You Defend!

Like calling tennis star Serena Williams an "animal."

Or calling national journalist Gwen Ifill "the cleaning lady."

Or calling national journalist William Rhoden a "quota hire."

Or likening the appearance of certain black NBA players to "apes."

Or referring to residents of Harlem as "moolignans" (an Italian anti-black slur).

Or referring to the black wife of former Secretary of Defense William Cohen as a "big-haired ho."

Or suggesting that Hillary Clinton will try to connect with black audiences by flashing the hand signs of the Crips street gang.

Not mention that he was basically forced to admit in a 1998 "60 Minutes" interview that he had hired a producer specifically to do "Nigger jokes."
by leonard145b on Mon Apr 09, 2007

-snip-

Also see this post from the same dailykos diary:

"he's already had many second chances

but just to mention one, Clarence Page actually confronted him on his program and made him take an oath to refrain from the racism on his program back in 2001.

CLARENCE PAGE: Are you raising your hand, right?

DON IMUS: I have it up.

CLARENCE PAGE: Okay. Okay, number one -- I, Don Imus--

DON IMUS: I, Don Imus--

CLARENCE PAGE: -- do solemnly swear--

DON IMUS: Do solemnly swear--

CLARENCE PAGE: -- that I will promise to cease all simian references black athletes--

DON IMUS: That I will promise to cease all simian references to back--black athletes--

CLARENCE PAGE: -- a ban on all references to non-criminal blacks as thugs, pimps, muggers and Colt 45 drinkers--

DON IMUS: I promise to do that.

http://www.onthemedia.org/...

That's just ONE second chance that he blew. Go to Media Matters for many many more second chances he's been given."
...

by dougymi on Mon Apr 09, 2007

-snip-


Should Imus be fired because of his most recent racist statement?

YES.

Should Imus have been fired before because of past racist & sexist statements that he has made?

YES.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 09:20 PM

Another reason to tune your radio to your local public radio station and break off the knob.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 09:27 PM

Obviously, it is Imus that is objectionable. It can't be that what he said is offensive. Def Comedy Jam is full of those terms. Spike Lee was, accurately, quoted (albeit, Imus had the wrong movie). And, don't tell me that only blacks can use these words without offrending. When a black celebrity is chastised for villifying whites, I will take this foolishness more seriously.
I am not a Don Imus fan. I heard him once and once was enough but he should not be painted as a racist for this incident. If Dave Chapelle can call them ho's,so can Imus.
And, speaking of Spike Lee, where was the rightous indignation when he said the reason his films were not recieving Oscars was that the industry was run by Jews. Sauce for the goose.....

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 11:17 PM

Didn't Rev. Jesse Jackson, who is now picketing NBC because of this, once call New York City "hymietown"? I seem to remember that he was forgiven for remarks that he thought were being made in private. I wonder, what is worse - saying something in private or opening your mouth in front of a microphone that you know is going out over the air? What words truly hurt more?

I also remember Rev. Al Sharpton making remarks after the Crown Heights riot about the "white interloper"

Imus, unlike the others was making an attempt at humor. I don't find him funny at all.   Jokes about race or religion are not funny. Yet, I do feel that freedom of speech is an important right to fight for.   Banning Imus from the airwaves would only be another chipping away of our freedom. No one needs to listen to a bigot, and advertisers do not have to put their money behind such garbage.

The only way we will truly have change is to help create change. If two men of the cloth will not give another human being an opportunity at redemption, an opportunity that was afforded to each of them, then our problems are greater than a stupid remark made by Don Imus.

The "sin" is not the issue. The issue should be what is done in the future to repair the damage. That is how you judge a persons character.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 11:28 PM

Jesse Jackson's outrage over Imus reminded me of the time Jesse called NYC 'Hiemytown'. Does Spike Lee always do the right thing? NO way.

Sure there is enough bigotry to go around and go back for seconds.
Comedians however deserve a pass. Once a society loses its sense of humor and free speech it will replace laughter with bloody beatings.

Does Rush Limbaugh deserve a pass? NO, he is not a comedian.
Does Imus deserve a pass? Ehhhhh I don't know. He is not the comedian on his show yet he has 3 others to do the actual comedy while he usually plays the straight man... but I am interested in who is going to pile on and pledge never to appear on his show again.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:50 AM

I'm no Imus fan, but I liked what he said in explanation of his nasty comment. I thought he acted like a man about it, I believe he was sincere when he apologized, and I think he and his wife do good work with terminally ill kids. He deserves another chance in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:11 AM

And white folks wonder why black folks think there is still racism. This apologetic crap makes me sick.

Using the fact that Spike Lee used the language in his movie is idiotic. Context is what is missing. Imus was, by his own admission, being a smart ass. He insulted and hurt the young women who achieved so much. When one uses this as an excuse, they show a complete lack of comprehension of racism. Every time I turn around, white people want to act like racism is a thing of the past. How many of these episodes (Richards, Imus) is it going to take for people to understand that the racism is hiding just below the surface?

Jackson's comments about hymietown was also unforgiveable. Racism and bigotry are here. Imus should go.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:48 AM

How is it that Jimmy the Greek loses his job when he screws up and flashes his racism? And that other announcer who got fired for his remarks about women golfers. Imus gets 2 weeks off. Suspension, my ass. He should be fired, too. Imus represents too much of what is wrong in the world, despite his tax shelter kids ranch doing some good. Well, folks, you see, Imus brings in way to much money to be fired. Once again, corporate America shows its true colors.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM

Calling a Jew a Jew is not racism. Calling a white person white is not racism. Calling a group of black women "nappy headed Hos" IS racism.

Furthermore, this is not the first time he has pulled this crap. He's about as funny as Mother's Day in an orphanage. He should go for good.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 08:45 AM

"And white folks wonder why black folks think there is still racism. This apologetic crap makes me sick."

I'm with you there, Mick. It's a bit distressing that on a forum like this, there would be so many people that "just don't get it". I see this from time to time on here - and that's what I just don't get ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:06 AM

Just because rappers call women "hos", call each other "nigra", and glorify violence doesn't make it right -- but it seems to sell. I'm with Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

I don't think anyone is saying it "right". His comments were appalling. I stopped listening to him long ago because jokes about racism are not funny and they do not make things go away.

I would not listen to him, if I were an advertiser I would not put any of my commercials on his show.   I think everyone has a right to protest his remarks.

However, I stop short of saying that he should be pulled off the air. My feelings about Imus are the same as Pat Robertson - neither have a place in my life and I would not give either support. The way to get rid of Don Imus is to make him obsolete.   Calling for him to be pulled off the air is a ridiculous and hypocritcal. I'm sorry Kendall, but calling someone a "hymie" is not the same as calling them a "jew", and there can be just as much racism behind calling someone a "white interloper". Yet they were both given second chances, and third and fourth chances as well. Their actions more than make up for some inconsiderate and inappropriate words. Those individuals are dealing with their own issues, and I do admire them for that.   I would hope Imus could do the same.

No one should be foolish enough to think that racism doesn't exist.   No one should be foolish enough to think that if we put a bandaid over someones mouth that it will go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:54 AM

Racism is a term of power and power is a product of perception. There are groups that are pelted with impunity because they are seen as unthreatened (men, Americans, Wasps, the wealthy, politicians, lawyers, nuns) or too remote to matter (France, Italy, Germany).
Obviously, black audiences are not threatened by Chris Rock's language because they do not see intent to dehumanize. Oprah told Chris that she was uncomfortable with his frequent use of the word "nigger" and he explained that there was a distinct difference between a nigger and a black person and it was the niggers that made it so bad for everyone else. Intent is everything. Michael Richards spoke in in anger. So did Mel Gibson. Speaking of Mels, how come there was no furor when Mel Brooks released "Blazing Saddles"? That was a movie script that still holds the record for NPH (Niggers Per Hour).
I understand the paranoia because I have been known to get my hackles up when a non-Jew tells a joke about Jews. I feel threatened because, within my lifetime, Jews have been slaughtered and villified. I wish I could get over this fear because personal power belongs to those who believe in themselves and fear is the enemy of progress.
I would like to thank Kendall for instructing me, and my fellow Jews, as to the limits of racism. If he believes that there is not rampant anti-Semitism in the African-American community, then it must be so.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:55 AM

...why black folks think there is still racism...

Black folks THINK there is still racism??? Like they're confused or deluded about its existence & persistence in the US?

Talk about sick-making comments...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:03 AM

"how come there was no furor when Mel Brooks released "Blazing Saddles"?"

That movie was clearly and effectively using comedy to attack racism. It turns racial stereotypes and racist attitudes inside out and backwards, and shows how foolish and ungrounded they are. I think everyone could see that and, however reluctantly, respect it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

mesoginistic = misogynistic = a pathological hatred of or discrimination against women. The hatred and discrimination against men is called misandry.

Misogynists may hate all women, or may just hate powerful women. Many workplace bullies who find it impossible to take orders from a higher ranking woman are misogynists and take it out on women of equal or lower rank.

In the film 'Mrs Doubtfire', the main character makes a comment about meeting the 'misogynistic bastard' who invented high heels.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:16 AM

Actually, I have to feel sorry for Don Imus.

His remarks are no worse than the vomit spewed daily by the rest of the "shock jock" gobshites: Stern, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Leykis, Schlessinger, Coulter, Hedinger, Schlafly & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on........

They all going to get the axe? I think not. Audiences love 'em.

And THERE'S the REAL obscenity.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:20 AM

I would like to thank Kendall for instructing me, and my fellow Jews, as to the limits of racism. If he believes that there is not rampant anti-Semitism in the African-American community

No more so, I imagine, than the "rampant" anti-African American sentiment in the Jewish Community.
Pots & kettles........

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:23 AM

While you can't change Don Imus you CAN at least limit the exposure given to him and others who say it is humor when in point of fact, it's hate. I am also bothered that there seems to still be an attitude that there is less racism in the "north" than in the "south."

Back during the Missing and Murdered Children investigation in Atlanta a couple of drive-time DJ's said that the murderer had been found......it was "a 'gator hiding in a watermelon." Within about 45 seconds they went unexpectedly to a commercial break which ran for several minutes past what was normal. When the live broadcast came back, both of them were missing and were never heard from again around Atlanta.

Imus gets a 2 week suspension? The veiled and "cute" hate language of a Don Imus is far more a detriment to race relations than the more open and obvious. They should have fired this asshole on the spot.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

I second your emotion, Spaw. I tuned into Imus this morning to see who had replaced him. Not only was he there, but people were calling in supporting him with backslaps and chuckles. Bill Maher (sp? - the guy with that show where he would get a few celebrities together to talk about "issues") called in to offer his support, saying, bad as Imus' joke was,people should just get over it. He just landed in the asshole pile with Imus.

Two weeks suspension - what a joke.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 11:29 AM

"Comedians however deserve a pass. Once a society loses its sense of humor and free speech it will replace laughter with bloody beatings."

The problem is everyone thinks they are a comedian.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

It's time for people to suck-it-up and deal with reality. Black leaders love an incident like this so they can draw an audience and strut their stuff. I doubt if the everyday black citizens even thinks twice about it.

                People are just too thin-skinned sometimes.

                Imus apologized--it looked like he meant it to me. The rest of us need to just get on with more important things.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

I don't know why comments like this are allowed on public airways at all. It is not just demeaning language, but it has a very threatening component as well. I hope FCC comes in and puts in some or enforces some rules. There are some "rights" of free speech I am quite willing to trample. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:34 PM

Yeah - I can't stand it when they go around looking all mopey and sorry for themselves, or getting all uppity and complaining. What's the matter with them? Must be that preacher that's been comin' 'round, puttin' all kinds of notions into their heads - you see? That's what happens when these go-gooders start lettin' them learn how to read. They were perfectly happy before, and that's how I like them.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

"I don't know why comments like this are allowed on public airways at all. It is not just demeaning language, but it has a very threatening component as well. I hope FCC comes in and puts in some or enforces some rules. There are some "rights" of free speech I am quite willing to trample."

That is just plain wrong. The reason we have free speech in this country is to stop persecution and allow the sharing of ideas. The downside is that we sometimes hear things that make us very uncomfortable and angry. No one is telling ANYONE that they should listen or support Imus.

First it was a bare boob on television which opened the door to allow the FCC to determine what is indecent. Now, because one radio host acted like a jerk, you want the FCC to alter rules to stop his speech - because you feel angry.    Where does it stop? This will soon turn into Nazi Germany where we will be told what to listen to and watch.   You don't fight racism by chipping away at our right to free speech.   

If the employers of Don Imus decide to take him off their air (they do own the license, not Imus), then so be it. If you look for the government to step in and do it - you are asking for the end of this country as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:23 PM

If Imus had any moral character (or balls, for that matter), he would simply recognize just how wrong he is and resign.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:27 PM

Imus was 'slapped on the wrist' much as famous athletes are when they do something stupid. He is 'interesting' to a lot of people, and he makes money for the network, so they cut him a lot of slack.

Maybe there is room for him on satellite radio with Howard Stern.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM

Let's speak plainly. The phrase "nappy headed ho's" is no worse, and probably more tasteful, than the lyrics to half the rap songs you'll overhear. I would go so far as to say that the phrase was an allusion to rap lyrics. Does this justify his comment? In no way. Does the fact that BET, the cable showcase for black culture, runs rap music everyday that displays young black men using such remarks justify Imus' words? No. Does the fact that Imus is white and 50 Cent is black make a phrase that could easily be used by either of them, equally contemptible? Apparently not.

I will say this. If I hear you and your brother referring to your sister as a red-headed bitch over and over again, and neither you nor she seem to take it as an insult, there is only one thing that prohibits me using the same term : I'm not a member of your family. Common sense tells me it's not appropriate. So is Imus' remark a manifestation of racism, or a failure of his common sense? I suggest it is the latter.

Racist and sexist language is endemic in our culture, among both blacks and whites. Until we address that problem, our solution will be punishing certain individual high-profile violators for crossing a line, while overlooking the roar of racist messages that blare from numberless sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:03 PM

Never heard or seen him before today. Just saw the captain of the team making a statement that Imus and the team have agreed to a private meeting to talk it out.

Nice to know that freedom of speech includes 'men' like Imus calling young college women nasty names on air.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

Interesting how folks who defend to the death their right of
freedom of expression in one situation all pile on to the
'Fire him! Shut him down!' wagon when it's someone with whom
they disagree or by whom they are offended by (or more correctly
'have decided that they should be offended').

It's one thing to say (rightly or wrongly) 'that's offensive.'

It's quite another to say 'deprive him (or her) of his living
or use of the public forum since I don't like what he says.'

It's amazing how many folks who would hate to have that standard
applied to them, or to those they agree with, are quick to apply
it to those whose ideas they find inconvenient.

This thread is, in general, an illustration of just how few
freedom of expression adherants are really left.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:15 PM

It's not only college women. I bet that unless steps have been taken in most middle schools in America that a whole bunch of 13 year olds are hit with that phrase. It will be new to many of them. I think most college women at Rutgers can probably handle themselves when they hear a phrase like that, at least I hope so...and should cut off communication with any man or woman who utters it..but a 12 year old? Think it isn't happening? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:18 PM

I personally do not say fire him. Certainly hold his feet to the fire and likewise anyone else who uses phrases such as that on public airwaves...go back to censoring...we handled it before and were none the worse for it. Have laws that say certain things can not be said, especially when children can hear it..and that goes for what is said on public transportation..where people are victims of all sorts of foul and racist and hateful language. Throw them off the bus, in the middle of a snowstorm. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:50 PM

"we handled it before and were none the worse for it."

That is highly debatable. It could be the reason why we are in such a current mess.

I don't buy the arguement about what children hear. The parent has the responsibility for determining what their child listens to. Airwaves can be blocked at a parents discretion so that they do not hear something you do not want them exposed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:27 PM

Well, let's see if Greg F is correct about the rampant racism in the Jewish community. Synagogues and the ADL have been active in the civil rights movement since before it was chic to be. I can't count the many Jews who were involved in the voting registration efforts in the South, some of whom, like Andy Goodman, gave their lives for black rights. I don'r recall many black protesters when Jews were attacked, when Jews were discriminated against, when Jews were slaughtered. That's OK, though. I don't remember many white Christians stepping up to bat, either. There is no Jewish equivilant to Louis Farakhan. No respectable Jewish "leader" could get away with the comments of a Jesse Jackson or a Spike Lee. He would be villified by the Jewish community. Jackie Mason has been criticised for stereotyping, in his act, but Chris Rock has not (nor, should he be). There is a world outside of this forum and, in that world, there is real danger and real evil. If we are to survive, we must learn to get our priorities straight. Words can be hurtful but, so long as they are not slanderous, they can not harm us. Freedom of speech means having to hear a lot of things that may be offensive. It is one of the costs we incur for living in a free society. So, I have to listen to the drunken ravings of Mel Gibson and you get to tolerate someone you find disgusting. Like the teatotaler, being served a coctail in his hotel room, you have to take the bitters with the suite.

                     Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:28 PM

"The parent has the responsibility for determining what their child listens to."

It's not the children with parents who take on their responsibilities that we're worried about. Newsflash: there are a whole lot of parents down at the bar right now, there are a whole lot of parents behind bars, there are a whole lot of parents working somewhere far from home, there are a whole lot of parents trying to scare up their next fix, there are a whole lot of parents who barely speak English and are working two or three jobs to make ends meet, there are a whole lot of parents who don't even know what their kids look like - believe me, those parents aren't spending much time "determing what their child listens to".

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:47 PM

Ron,

I think your point about free speech would be OK if there were equal time given to all points of view. There is a heavy bias in favor of racism, sexism,etc. on all the major AM outlets. However, to fire Imus would be an example to others that this nasty stuff is not allowable on major media when it's definitively "hate speech", which it was. This kind of stuff crosses the line into "yelling fire in a crowded theater". People are hurt by this kind of talk and it's "not just sticks and stones that can break your bones."

"Cheap little rhyme to cheap little tune,
Is sometimes as dangerous as a sliver of a moon.
Cheap little tune to cheap little rhyme
Can cut a man's throat, sometime."
---Langston Hughes

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

You make some good points Frank. I do think Imus cut his own throat, and I would not offer him a bandaid.

There is one problem I have with your points. One is that I do not think this is the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Yelling "fire" is a huge problem is because of the danger it creates - you do not know who is yelling and if the problem is real. In the case of Don Imus, he has a history of using race, religion and politics as the source of supposed humor. These type of remarks were not new.

Please don't misunderstand - I am not supporting what he said. I think he deserves to be boycotted. I draw the line at calling for his firing. If I sit in the front row at the whale show at Sea World, I know I am going to get wet. I can't sue Sea World for having my clothes ruined. Don Imus did not suddenly decided to use the word "ho" that day.

Perhaps there is a heavy bias on AM, and other outlets. I blame the FCC and deregulation for that. Stations no longer have to present equal time on issues and they can get away with the garbage that is spewed. While I firmly believe in free speech, I thought the original regulations allowed for more diversity and sharing of ideas.   Sometimes it is not good to get what you wish for.

At times like this I think of Lenny Bruce, who could use words and show us the stupidity and danger - and still make us laugh, but not at the expense of others.   Don Imus is not Lenny Bruce.

Thoughts need to remain free. We enter a dangerous situation when we make laws that determine who and what can use the radio airwaves. I don't think people realize how much freedom they would lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:40 PM

If Imus said such a thing in a Canadian workplace (note I'm not talking about 'entertainment' or public media), he would be hauled off for sensitivity training, and if he persisted, he likely would be fired, for poisoning the work environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:41 PM

I am amused at Sharpton's "holier than thou" stand. Does anyone remember Tawana Brawley?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:08 PM

Yeah Sins.....I don't think Sharpton has ever paid up or apologized after being found guilty has he?   Sharpton is a lot less than the ideal spokesman for anything including racism. You couldn't help but laugh at him interviewing Imus........birds of a feather.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:03 AM

Having listened to the ladies on the basketball team, there were several who were insightful and articulate and one who spoke in Ebonics (unless she meant she was literally going to 'axe' Don Imus)
I did not hear the 2 white players speak. The coach was compelling.

No doubt their feelings were hurt. No one ever put that hurt in perspective and compared it to the hurt inflicted in Darfur. Too bad, with the national stage before them they could have focused our national attention to a larger agenda than just personal feelings.

These comments may be seen as racist by some. That is OK. I have learned that there is not one among us who is not racist - particularly the people who claim they are not racist. Thomas Farmer taught me that white people with good anti racist intentions STILL have taken advantage of the racist structures in which they live. For that reason they can not claim that they are not racists simply because they have participated in racist society.

The worst racism is the silent racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:07 AM

So - we should all be going around talking like that bozo?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:12 AM

Jeff Greenbaum said that having Sharpton as the spokesman for antiracist solutions and retribution PROVES that God has a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:51 PM

If the members of the Rutgers team can show that they do not listen to or own rap CDs, I will take their "hurt" seriously. I have, always , been offended by the term "ho" and I have never understood why black women have put up with it, all these years. I might add that Don Imus (who I find, both, unamusing and unedifying) was not, seriously calling the basketball players prostitutes, If he had meant to do so, he would have said "whores" or "harlots" or some other Eurocentric slur. One of the players said that she was permanantly scarred by Imus's insult. Does she, really, think that an eccentric talk show performer has more influence than a rapper?
Imus is a shock jock and, not even the most outragious. He, howard Stern and their wannabes are meaningless blips on the culture screen.
We have real problems in our cities, in our nation and in our world. Our Arican-American community has bigger fish to fry than wasting energy on clumsy banter. Black on black murder has robbed the inner city of its neighborhoods. Teenage pregnancy is epidemic and the inner city schools are arenas. In my city, 50% of the, available, workforce is unemployed and the percentage of scholl dropouts is embarrassing, and , now, everyone wants to lynch Don Imus for quoting rappers. There is a folksong about this very thing, I am sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM

From today's Washington Post:

Let the Idiocy Be Heard

By Michael Meyers
Wednesday, April 11, 2007; Page A15

Defending Don Imus's on-air racial idiocy is impossible -- but defending free speech, even in the form of sick humor, ought to be considered anew in the wake of a storm of protest from censorious activists who are demanding that Imus be fired.

There is an audience out there that is hungry for the ribald and the offensive. It is an audience that will not go away and cannot be boycotted. Does labeling those listeners and the shock jocks they adore and emulate as racial dunces or "un-American," and making the shock jocks unemployable (for daring to say what they think), advance the dialogue about racism or sexism? I don't think so.

Ours is supposed to be a nation that prides itself on free speech -- let a thousand tongues wag, we say, and the truth will be uncovered. But the censors and activists who are so readily offended by idiocy on radio have discovered still another truth: that the First Amendment does not apply to radio shock jocks. And so they want the advertisers and networks to ban the I-Man and toss him off the air. They don't want to hear from Imus, and they don't want anybody else to hear him, either. If the censors and pressure groups succeed, what will become of our culture of free speech, especially with such gabbers as Al Sharpton curiously demanding action from the FCC?

There ought to be no sympathy in any quarter for any shock jock's racial prejudice, but there has to be room for apologies that are offered in earnest. Moreover, there ought to be space on radio for dialogue and for racial impoliteness, too. When a radio shock jock makes a quip that offends, that's no surprise. There is no captive, fragile audience or hostile environment such as the workplace or schoolhouse to worry about -- just the robust radio world, full of gabbers, some of whom want to be taken seriously, some of whom try frantically to use words simply to entertain -- and who screw up -- and others who use satire and devil's-advocacy to push us to think. Besides, what's to distinguish Don Imus from the haters on black talk radio who regularly praise and play Louis Farrakhan tapes?

If we prize freedom, we should let the radio talkers talk. Let them be perfectly understood, and let the pressure groups answer when the talkers veer off reason with their inane hatreds. But we should not allow pressure groups to drive from radio people who say the darndest things and those whose views they don't like. I say that if you don't like what you're hearing, turn the dial. If you want to call in and talk back to the jockass, do so. But we can't talk back on the radio if the censorship crowd gets its way -- if the sound of morning drives is bland conformity with the peculiar and narrow tastes of those who don't want us to hear what they themselves don't like.

The writer is executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition and a former assistant national director of the NAACP.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:20 PM

Perhaps, what is best is to let the Rutgers women basketball team have the final verdict on what to do with Don Imus. He plans to meet with them. Maybe they'll be more humane they he was, or maybe they'll use him as a target for free-throw practice.

Racist and sexist statements should disqualify someone from the broadcasting business. I'm surprised that some here seem to consider it "free speech" and therefore protected from punishment.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

There is something missing in what I have heard and read...well, gee these women are obviously scholars and athletes so obviously it is incorrect to call them that...yeah...well, it is bad to call anyone that, including women who might be doing that to make money. They have lives of horror, beatings, risk of disease..make that guarantee of disease...disgusting men....it's not a life that should be made fun of or used to intimidate or insult other women with...and what it has done to the athletes is the tip of the iceberg...what it does to young teens and children is the worst of it. What it does to older people of a more respectable behavioral mindset having to hear that sort of thing on the bus, in public spaces, on public airways is horrible.

I am all for stifling free speech in this case and others I can think of. I think there should be laws, and when there are, people like Imus should be fired. For now let him twist in the wind. This is a phrase, or a word, that should be cut out of polite society forever and no apologies or explanations made for its use...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:43 PM

"I am all for stifling free speech in this case and others I can think of."

The problem is that it is NOT the cases YOU can think of that will be stiffled- or if so, there will be those you agree with that are stifled as well.


"The price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish." Robert H. Jackson


"The principle of free thought is not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought we hate." US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in United States v. Schwimmer (1929).

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:45 PM

"He wrote something stupid, a bunch of words that say something we don't agree with. It's only words and ideas, it's not like he beat someone up, he's not committing violence or hurting people, he's simply saying something offensive that we do not want to hear because we don't like it. If we suppress ideas we don't like, the proponents of those ideas will probably fester in secret societies and explode in double-plus ungood ways and we will like those results even less. If we allow people to see their ideas, and we ignore them, they've had their chance and they don't have to feel cheated about not getting exposure. Or if we really don't like their ideas and really need to keep them from convincing other people to believe in them, the answer is to tell people why and they'll learn. But you can't just beat people up because you dislike their stupid opinion. If we go that route, then anyone who is willing to use force can suppress any opinion they don't like, and maybe support opinions we don't like. Then what you get is a society of brutality where it isn't the best ideas that are seen by others, it's only the ideas that have the most vicious thugs to back them up. And it becomes very hard for people to be willing to express any opinion if someone can just pop them one because they say something someone else doesn't like." - Supervisor 246 in Paul Robinson's Instrument of God.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:12 PM

Ban Imus from radio? Go ahead! You can pressure anyone to do anything you want them to do. But government censorship is NOT the answer. Bruce is right on this one. Like the wiretapping of phone lines, many consider censorship perfectly fine as long as the target is others. The problem is that a government can apply those powers as they see fit : To solve crimes, control racist behavior, or repress dissent and religious or other freedoms.
You want Imus to lose his job, you use what's known as a boycott. You don't listen to him, you picket his studio, you refuse to buy his advertised products. But anyone who says the law should be applied in this case is way off base, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:20 PM

No one's saying to throw this guy in jail - they're just saying, Fire his ass. There's a difference. His employers will keep their eye on the bottom-line - if it looks like they'll lose enough advertising dollars, they'll fire him. If it doesn't, they'll keep him, and enjoy the free publicity.

If he gets fired, he can go stand on a soapbox in the park and have all the free speech he wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:56 PM

There's no censorship is Imus is banned from radio as long as it is not government mandated. If the individual station owners simply decide to ban him, it is their right to do so and it is perfectly legal and constitutional.

But should they? I don't know or care. It's up to them.

What I don't get is why Imus even apologized at all. Why? He's never apologized before. I listened to one of his shows and it was appalling. This was several years ago. I heard several comments that I couldn't believe no one complained about. Now all the sudden he's humble and apologetic.

Maybe his station came down on him but they'd only do that if he wasn't garnering a listenership. But I would think they'd just cancel his show instead trying to turn into the Mr. Humility Show.

Maybe all his years of pandering to a racist audience (I can't imagine who else would listen to it on a constant basis) caught up to him. I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:22 PM

MSNBC canned him Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM

There is more here than meets the eye.

A few years ago, Imus was invited to speak at a banquet for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Imus pulled no puches. Clinton was not happy. Clinton never forgets and never fails to draw blood when it's 'payback time'.

The last thing the Hillbilly Mob needs is Imus making fun of them during next year's presidential election. Hillary believes the nomination is hers for the taking.

Imus had to go. They just waited until he said something the could blow into an incident. The Clintons, Jesse, Sharpton and the news media allies were ready to pounce. Clinton-style character assasination at it's finest.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:40 PM

Alright! A conspiracy theory! I knew there was one thing this thread lacked!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

Good people who are honestly concerned about the use of racist and miscegenist slang terms shouldn't just rest on their laurels after forcing Don Imus into losing his job. The following is a list of companies who sell and sponsor such slander for profit on a daily basis. Why not demand they drop these terms? Better yet, because of the depth of their past transgressions, demand the resignation of their CEOs!

Def Jam (4)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Def_Jam

Stones Throw Records
Featuring hip-hop artists from the Bay Area and beyond, including Peanut Butter Wolf, Rasco, Lootpack, and Rob Swift.
www.stonesthrow.com

Roc-A-Fella Records
Jay-Z's label, frontin' artists such as Jigga himself, Kanye West, Memphis Bleek, DJ Clue, and more.
www.rocafella.com

Hieroglyphics Imperium Records
Featuring underground hip-hop artists including Casual and Del Tha Funky Homosapien.
www.hieroglyphics.com

Definitive Jux
Rap and hip-hop label. Features news, audio and video clips, artist and tour information, and more.
www.definitivejux.net

Bad Boy Records (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Bad_Boy_Records

Rhymesayers Entertainment (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Rhymesayers_Entertainment

Shady Records (2)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Shady_Records

Quannum Projects
Artists include Lyrics Born, Lateef, Gift of Gab, and Blackalicious.
www.quannum.com

Jive Records
Home to contemporary pop, R&B, and hip-hop artists.
www.jiverecords.com

Cash Money Records
Hip-hop record label.
www.cashmoney-records.com

Loud Records
Features artists such as the X-ecutioners, Big Pun, Funkmaster Flex, Mobb Deep, Xzibit, and more.
www.loud.com

Aftermath Music
Featuring artists such as Dr. Dre, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, 50 Cent, and Ice Cube.
www.aftermathmusic.com

Star Trak Entertainment (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Star_Trak_Entertainment

Giant Step
Concert/event promoter, record label, and marketing company reaching out to DJs and tastemakers.
www.giantstep.net

Groove Attack Productions (GAP)
Hip hop, future soul, and nu jazz. Artists include Karma, Cali Agents, and Vikter Duplaix.
www.grooveattack.com

Bomb Hip Hop
B-boyin', turntablism, aerosol art, MCing, beatboxing, and more.
www.bombhiphop.com

Duck Down Entaprizez
Home of the Boot Camp Clik, featuring Buckshot (formerly of Black Moon), Cocoa Brovaz (formerly Smif-n-Wessun), Heltah Skeltah, and O.G.C.
www.duckdown.com

Murder Inc. Records
Home of artists such as Caddillac Tah, Ja Rule, and Ashanti.
www.murderincrecords.com

Battleaxe Records
Canadian label with artists such as Swollen Members, Moka Only, Buck Fifty, Mr.Brady, and Abstract Rude.
www.battleaxerecords.com

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:26 PM

I would be happy if these goons listened to (C)rap with headphones.

Blasting their hate-speach in my face at 120 dB should be grounds for justifiable homocide.

Many old people live in poor areas and cannot afford to move. They are subjected to (C)rap as a form of sonic assault and suffer health problems from the stress. Loud rhythmic thumping noise can also induce irregular heart beat in some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:35 PM

To quote that Lonesome EJ further up the thread: "If I hear you and your brother referring to your sister as a red-headed bitch over and over again, and neither you nor she seem to take it as an insult, there is only one thing that prohibits me using the same term : I'm not a member of your family."

We can all understand that. Insomuch as these objectionable terms and language are used by Black people to and about Black people (primarily), then it's within the family ... This idea that "I can call them that because they call each other that" is just a weasly excuse for using, or tacitly approving of, offensive and demeaning language.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:46 PM

MSNBC Says It Will Drop Imus Show

The cable network said on Wednesday that it will no longer
simulcast Don Imus's radio program.

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 09:07 PM

See this excerpt of a column written by African American writer Earl Ofari Hutchinson:

"Imus Got His Trash Talk Pass Yanked, Now Yank it for Blacks Who Talk The Same

By Earl Ofari Hutchinson, New America Media. Posted April 10, 2007.

.. [rappers'] contempt reinforces the slut image of black women and sends the message that violence, mistreatment, and verbal abuse of black women are socially acceptable.

Despite lawsuits, protests and boycotts by women's groups, gangster-themed films and rap music continue to soar in popularity. Hollywood and the record companies rake in small fortunes off of them, and so do the rappers.

...enter shock jock Don Imus. He's the latest white guy to be transformed into a racially and gender incorrect punching bag for his Michael Richardsesque racial and gender tirade against a group of young black women. He, of course, has been verbally mugged, battered, abused, and momentarily dumped from his radio and TV show.

Imus has genuflected, no groveled, to the Reverend Al Sharpton, civil rights leaders, the Rutgers women's basketball team, begging forgiveness. Imus certainly deserves the kick in the shins that he's getting. In his very public self-flagellation, even he admitted that he rocketed way past the line of what even by the raunchy and low road standards of shock jockism is considered acceptable.

But again, Imus, as a white man that spewed racial bile, is the softest of soft targets. The same can't be said for the black rap shock jocks. They made Imus possible. They gave him the rappers bad housekeeping seal of approval to bash and trash black women".

-snip-

Fwiw, I very much agree with these comments.

See also this comment written in response to Hutchinson's column:

"Earl Misses-- Again!
Posted by: sincere on Apr 11, 2007 11:59 AM   

...When Michael Richards made his N-word comment, the media (and our guy Earl) focused on his use of the "n-word." What was often glossed over, were Richards references to historical lynching and even sodomy/mutiliation of black males (a time honored ritual in white racial violence). So the context is lost, and it quickly degenerates into a typical white apologist (and their black allies) stance of, "well blacks use it!" Never mind that the n-word is a white racist creation tied to black degredation, slavery, death, rape, oppression etc. and that its continued use by blacks reflects this toll this tormented legacy has on the psyche. Instead, by leaving out Richards allusions to historical real-life racial violence that is synonymous to the n-word, Earl and the mainstream media treated us to a side-show of "it's black people's fault for using it."

In this case, Imus is called to the carpet for using "nappy headed-hos." And as quickly as someone can say FOX News, white apologists were out en masse screamin bloody murder at the hypocrisy of black use of the term "ho" in music, etc. And Earl continues in this. What he and the media leave out, is the lager context of Imus's statements. Right after this offense comment, his guest McGuirk alludes that the Rutgers women are "Jigaboos" going up against "Wanabees" from the Spike Lee film School Daze (which they mistake for Do The Right Thing). And he and others and Imus go on to talk about the lack of femininity of the Rutgers players.

Of course, this larger context brings up an entirely different angle...that what we have here are several white men indulging in an age old intersection of sexism and racism that posits that black women are either sexually exotic or physically unattractive--at least in comparison to white women. The use of the term "Jigaboo" is probably more offensive than the "nappy headed hos." But it's left on the media cutting room floor. And so the conversation is simplified into, "well don't rappers use ho' too?" Because the white apologists (and Earl) would have a hard time talking about the use of "Jigaboo" in rap music.

So here we are, having a simple argument, because the media is lazy--or willfully lazy--and it seems, so is Earl".

-snip-

For what it's worth, I also very much agree with these comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 09:09 PM

Here's the link to that column and that comment:

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/50407/#comments

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:00 PM

" ... references to historical lynching ... "

To elaborate: maybe "historical", but not ANCIENT history - this stuff was going on within the lifetimes of many if not most of us on this forum. Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:05 PM

This idea that "I can call them that because they call each other that" is just a weasly excuse for using, or tacitly approving of, offensive and demeaning language.

I didn't say that. But when African-American rap artists and comedians use this sort of rhetoric in a public forum to describe women, and particularly black women, in this way, they are dragging this language and these attitudes out of a dank cellar and into public domain. Hell no I don't condone it! But I think for a guy like Don Imus to say what he did, be called on the carpet for it, issue a public apology, appear on the Reverend Al Sharpton's radio show to do penance, and promise never to do such a thing again...well, to me that should get the public's attention as some sort of atonement.
Then when Busta Rhymes makes a similar statement, he gets repeat airplay on BET and a substantial financial reward? Let's hear Busta issue a public apology, appear on Oprah, and promise never to do it again! Am I the only one who thinks that would be REAL progress?

Let's turn it around...Just because you can't call my sister a red-headed bitch in public, do I have the right to do it? The very least I should get from doing that is your righteous disdain and a boot in the ass from my sister.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:15 PM

Can't argue with that. BUT - that boot in the ass has to come from your sister (or "sista", as the case may be). Or one of your brothers with a harder kick.

There is a problematic twist to all this - which is that, from what I understand, it is largely "white kids from the suburbs" that are funding the rap music industry. There are wheels within wheels here ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:20 PM

For a laugh that in a way is related to that last point, check this out: White Chicks & Gang Signs.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: mg
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:40 PM

Or the boot could come from the brother, who traditionally played a role, sometimes unappreciated by the sister, in protecting her reputation. We have to find our ways back to some of this or we are just going to sink further into the cesspool we are in, and especially the young people are in. And there are national security implications to this..people say, why do they hate us...well, they say so again and again. We are degenerate. We are foul-mouthed. Do they want their girls called "hos" etc? I don't think so. This stuff has a way of spreading. I wonder what the sexual harassment laws have to say about it. Again, I get back to the public bus situations. Ride them if you don't usually. I think hearing that amounts to sexual harassment of every girl and every woman, and hurts the men as well, both those who speak that way (and I am not saying women don't) and those who would never in a million years speak that way but are forced to listen to it. On a public bus, young children are exposed to that sort of language, and worse, every day. How can parents protect them? How does that affect immigrants from very traditional cultures? You are trapped on a bus. There is a strong element of intimidation to bystanders and not just their immediate audience. There have to be laws of how low we are allowed to go. I hope this really gets people to thinking and that there are serious consequences for more than Imus. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:55 AM

Seems to me that MSNBC realized that Imus wouldn't attract either advertisers or desirable viewers, and dropped the show accoedingly.
Quite sensible. If the AM radio station feels the pinch of boycotts of their advertisers' products, they'll likely do the same thing.
    with regards to free speech.trying to get the government involved is walking a very slippery slope

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:46 AM

Don Imus is a coward who hides behind his radio microphone.

I'd like to see him call those fine athletic women, nappy-headed hos to their faces. Actually, they're probably ladies who wouldn't hurt him but I can think of alot people who would. Me included.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 02:31 AM

Don Imus is a sarcastic loudmouth of the Howard Stern variety, and I've only caught his show by accident. The main impression he's always had on me is mild amusement a result of the ridiculous costume he wears when behind the microphone...cowboy hat and a heavy jacket, like he just rode in from branding dogies. That he made the knappy-headed ho's remark doesn't really surprise me.
There's another side to his story though found here.
I don't know that he's a coward, and I don't really think he's a bigot. I think he's a man so full of himself that he crossed a line. I don't like his style, and I find it awkward that I'm defending him in this forum. I guess I admire the work he's done with his charity. Maybe that's his wife's influence. But in a world where the mark of success is showing off your palace on MTV Cribs, or throwing a 4 million dollar sweet sixteen party for your spoiled little princess, it strikes me that Don had plenty of other directions to send his time and money than trying to help kids with cancer and sickle cell have some joy in their lives.
As always, it's a hell of a lot easier for most people to make a snap judgement and condemn someone than take the time to question their first knee-jerk reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 07:14 AM

pdq, you are so far out in right field with that silly conspiracy thing it is almost laughable!
There are so many lies circulating on the internet it's incredible. One of them is that the Clintons are killing off all their enemies. According to Scopes that is a crock of shit.
Look, neither the democrats nor the Clintons came up with an issue to get rid of Imus. HE did it on his own! Tell you what, if that prick had called my daughter a "nappy haired street Ho", and we met on the street, I would be happy to stuff his ass into that ridiculous hat!
He's a foul mouth racist bastard and he got what he deserved.
Those were exceptional young women he trashed, but even if they had been trailer park trash, he had no right to resort to that kind of redneck horse shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: saulgoldie
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:47 AM

I won't defend Imus's comments, and I do think that a suspension and due penance is required. However, there are many others out there who routinely utter similarly offensive language and who have not even been disciplined. Sure, there are the rappers; that is a given. But there are a slew of right wingnut air personalities who slander someone on almost every show who are still with us. Check out Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, and others. Femi-nazis, indeed!

Why aren't they similarly dragged through the mud and left on the road for the next car to run over? Ann Coulter recently offended John Edwards, homosexuals, and those of us with sensibilities with her recent comment. My concern is that punishments are unevenly handed out.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:55 AM

I'm sure you are right, kendall. And Lyndon Johnson had nothing to do with Kennedy's assasination.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:59 AM

It appears that the reason CBS allowed him to continue working this week is that his annual "radiothon" started today and runs through tomorrow.

Each year Imus runs a Radiothon to rais funds for the Tomorrows Children's Fund, CJ Foundation for SIDS, and the Imus Ranch. Last year they raised $2.9 million for these charities, and also raised awareness.

You can call him a "prick", an "asshole", an "idiot" or a "foul mouth racial bastard" - but it seems to me that is a reaction based on how the media is covering this story.

As Saulgoldie pointed out, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh & the rest get a slap on the wrist and it is written off as part of their schtick. Perhaps that is the way to look at it.   If you ever listened to Imus, you know what you are getting. You realize the attempt at humor and what it entails. The sarcasm is there. The insults are there.   Is it actually meant? Is it an act? Listen for yourself and decide, but don't let the media coverage make up your minds for you.

I no longer listen to him, I haven't for about 10 years. The act grew stale, and perhaps as the world matures around him it is time to grow up. Look at some of the comic routines from decades ago. We've learned and changed. The locker room humor of people like Imus and Stern just aren't funny the more we learn.   

I would doubt that there is a single person who contributed to this thread that has not done something or said something in their life that they are ashamed of. Would it be fair to judge your character on such an incident?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:08 AM

The media has nothing to do with my reaction. I saw and heard what I saw and heard.
Of course I've used language that would warp a crowbar, but not on national TV.

pdq, I have always suspected LBJ to be at the bottom of that murder, and the evidence points to it.
However, there is not one scrap of evidence that Clinton is guilty of any such thing.
No amount of belief can create a fact. The Clintons are bad enough without us repeating lies about them. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:17 AM

"I saw and heard what I saw and heard.
Of course I've used language that would warp a crowbar"

So does that mean we should boycott you?   

I am not trying to be argumentative, and I do respect your opion. You aren't the only one who called Imus names in this thread.   Most of the names, he certainly deserves.

What I am trying to point out is that you heard ONE segment taken out of context of the entire show that has been going on for years. Imus in not the only one doing this type of humor either. Go up and down the AM dial in the mornings and listen to the shock jocks.

I'm not saying that I approve of Imus's show or any others, but the problem that everyone is reacting to is a few words and not looking at the big picture.   I understand Howard Stern's reaction to this entire matter is that he called Imus a coward for backing down. Anyone picketing Stern, the creator of Lesbian dial-a-date and other routines that frequently demean women and minorities?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

Gosh, Ron, thanks for pointing out that "I" am the problem. If I apologize for my own rude and indiscrete utterances right now, and I will, can I then have your permission to cast a few more virtual stones at Imus and the rest of his trash-talking cronies?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:36 AM

Absolutely Charley, permission granted. Lets hear what you did.

I guess you are entitled to sarcasm, but Imus certainly is not.   Obviously you missed my point completely. I assume that you have done many good things in your life and probably are very sorry for whatever you did that was rude and indiscrete. Imus deserves a reprimand, and a boycott is certainly reasonable - I have in effect boycotted him for the last 10 years. To even consider a government sponsored rule against this sort of thing is deadly wrong. For us to not take this story and examine the entire industry is wrong.

I do hope you will throw some virtual stones at his cronies and others in the entertainment biz while throwing some at yourself and the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:40 AM

kendall,

Just for the record, what I said about the Clintons and Imus is my opinion. It came from me and nobody else.

About the Kennedy assasination, I have always felt that Johnson was behind it. That opinion is getting more support now, forty years later. My opinion about Imus being lynched for political reasons may also prove true. It is my guess and I will stand by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:43 AM

What nonsense or vitriol I or Charley or Ron or anyone spouts in the privacy of our kitchen after one too many on a Saturday night is our own business - but if we go on national TV and spout the same stuff, then it's everybody's business.

Maybe it's not fair that this Imus character is getting nailed for what other media "personalities" are getting away with, but maybe it puts out a bit of a warning. Besides, one guy breaks into a house, gets arrested, and beats the rap; another one gets sent up the creek on less evidence. Not fair, but he shouldn't have broken into the house in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:56 AM

"What nonsense or vitriol I or Charley or Ron or anyone spouts in the privacy of our kitchen after one too many on a Saturday night is our own business - but if we go on national TV and spout the same stuff, then it's everybody's business."

A good point, but if you next door neighbor hears a tape of something you said and demands that you leave the neighborhood, would that be fair? As you said it was your own business.

Imus made remarks to his regular audience. People are now demanding his firing who have never heard him before. Is it their business? Do I have the right to tell Charley and Kendall what songs they can sing? Recently I was reading Stan Hugill's brilliant collection, and there were some dated references that would be considered racist by todays standard. Is it right to judge situations out of context?

Your analogy of two people breaking into a home is perfect. One guy gets away with it and one guy goes to jail. Does that really stop others from committing the same crime? Not at all. Ignoring flaws in the system perpetuate the same behavior and sending one person to jail and not others only makes a handful of people feel like they have done the right thing. The reality is, the crimes will continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 11:52 AM

well, you needed to hear the LONG interview with the president of NBC news on "Countdown" (Keith Olbermann) last night as he explained the thinking and the process that led to their decision.

(if your browser is configured to do the javascript thing, you can watch the whole thing....down under 'more video'..."Capus explains dropping Imus".)

Capus is kind of amazing for a big executive...he sounded intelligent, thoughtful, sincere and committed.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 11:56 AM

Should I now presume those demanding government action will agree with
this?


After all, they have the right not to be insulted... Of course, THEY get to decide what is insulting.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

Ron, you may dance all around but it doesn't change the facts. This is not the first time Imus has pulled this crap, it's his history.
Furthermore, the government has nothing to do with his being canned. MSNBC did that themselves.They cannot survive without sponsers and the sponsers have had it with Imus.
I wish they would can Stern too.

pdq, if you stick to an opinion that you know is based on a lie, what does that say about you?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:01 PM

I think that all here can agree that it is the right of the networks to fire whoever they like, for whatever reason ( unless WE like them), but the call for the government to step in is what I object to.

Please, boycott Imus: write letters to the network not to let him on. THAT is fine- But to call for government regulation of speech is not justified.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:10 PM

Kendall, I am not dancing at all. I realize that this is not the first time Imus has said things like this - and this is the point. You are focusing on a single fact but not the rest.   

As to the government, my comment was directed at others (in this thread and in the media) who have suggested the FCC come down on this issue.

Imus deserved punishment, but I draw the line at resorting to call him names and requesting that he be fired. Doing so clouds the bigger issue, and Imus is only a minor point.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:19 PM

Personally, I'm going to boycott the advertisers that pulled the plug on him at MSNBC.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:24 PM

And that is ALSO your right, as a form of free speech and expression.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

kendall...you seem to be able to misinterpret people's statements as well as dianavan does. That, sir, is an art.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM

Perhaps you would care to clarify what you said, pdq?

I realize that I've been somewhat outspoken on this subject, but I have Black friends who are more welcome in my home than many of my own relatives, so I may be a bit sensitive.

It's also very easy to misunderstand someone on this forum. If I'm wrong, tell me how. I'm certainly not above an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:01 PM

kendall,

My post of "11 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM" has drawn at least two or three responses from you. It is strictly my opinion, and I resent you claiming that I am "sticking to a lie" or that the opinion is from someone else and that I am just repeating it. Your response(s) show just how intollerant people here are when they see an opinion that is neither PC-approved nor stale and predictable.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:15 PM

PDQ - I think Kendall had every reason to call your remarks of 11 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM a lie - just as you put that note out as fact, not stating that it was your opinion. Anyone reading that post had every reason to believe that you were trying to feed us something as a fact - when it is now apparently just your opinion.

This is a volatile issue and is it easy to misread things - and it is even harder to explain feelings.   Kendall, nor anyone, was at fault for questioning statements I made. In re-reading them, I can see that I did not do a good job of stating what I feel.

I don't think any of us appreciated Imus's remarks - even in a vein attempt at comedy.   Last night I happened to watch some of the Chappelle show on Comedy Central. I feel the man is a genius, but I also see where it makes some people feel uncomfortable.   Often incidents like this reveal issues that each of deal with in our daily lives and it makes our tolerance and patience levels disappear. NO one should accept bigotry and racism. At the same time, we need to look at the bigger picture and see where everything fits.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:38 PM

With all due respect, Ron, that statement cannot be anything but opinion. Think about it.

As far as Don Imus and his commnts, they appear to be intended to shame the people who rutinely use foul language, specifically the 'rap community'. I feel he may have been sticking a mirror in front of these people for a reason. My opinion, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 02:09 PM

I don't think he was sticking a mirror. I think that stuff gets accepted as OK to say..there are either groups that it is OK to be mean to or about, "hos", or as mentioned above"trailer park trash" and "rednecks." People look around, if they are inclined to want to insult people to see what it is permissible to say and they say it. Then it spreads and spreads. And what really concerns me is there is research somewhere..recent..that says language like that is the predecessor to physical violence..it opens pathways of permission..well, she is a ??? so I can slap her. He is a ???? so I can beat him up after school.....it has to be pretty universal that polite society will not accept meanness and nastiness to any person or group. Some of it will have to be socially imposed...people spend a lot of ferver getting on people for wearing cosmetics tested on animals for example...they can turn the same ferver on antisocial behavior. At some point, for some words, I think there have to be laws. There was a very nice letter to Oregonian newspaper yesterday about getting back to common decency...we have to...

And everyone who is physically able and does not endanger herself, must speak up to those trying to abuse them. Now, if you are in a dark alley and someone calls you a "ho" just start running...but if you are in a party, a school, a safe place start strongly speaking up. First of all, teach young girls to say (in a safe place) STOP IT. DO NOT TALK TO ME OR IN FRONT OF ME THAT WAY. Some of the idiotic school officials have to be a bit more vigilent than I have seen them in the past...And how in the world does a man ever get "companionship" from women talking like that??? Why are the women rewarding him in fairly significant ways? What is going on????? Do not let women off the hook for being totally passive victims here. They put up with this talk, and some of them talk this way themselves.

Bus drivers...oh my goodness. They have to have the authority and the backup to throw those jerks who are holding everyone hostage off the bus. A few ten mile walks home will cut down on this tremendously. Talking telephone poles...tell the groups of young kids they are not to talk that way on public property...record them (with all sorts of signs saying this will happen) and call their parents in to listen to what is going on. THere is huge denial among parents about what their little darlings are up to...

mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 02:40 PM

I don't believe his apology was sincere. He makes money from being a sexist and calling people degrading names.

The radio station should show some integrity or suffer the consequences (lack of advertisers and boycotts). He should be fired.

You cannot legislate good taste.

... and you know what? I do think rappers need to clean up their language, too. As someone mentioned earlier, its not just African Americans that buy their 'music'. There are alot of other kids out there supporting sexism, too. Its degrading to women and it promotes violence.

I think its up to everyone (including the African American community) to speak out and tell them its wrong. Don't glamourize 'ganstas' and do not tolerate sexism on the airwaves. Tell your kids why it is wrong. Schools should be openly discussing this with their students, too. Its going to take public disapproval to turn this around and clearly state that it is unacceptable.

Its a form of bullying and it has to stop.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:09 PM

A few thoughts on this occured to me after running through the thread.
There is a huge difference between a Chappelle, who, like Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce, etc; are comedians with a social point of view in their humor. Imus professes to be an interviewer and, yes, he fancies himself clever.   I think that a piece in the entertainment section of today's NY Times hit the nail on the head---it states that for years his side-kick and producer has been doing truly distasteful humor (part of his job--at the expense of Blacks, Roman Catholics, and Jews, Hillary Clinton among others). Imus cast himself above the fray and just, sort of listened and chuckled. The material was scripted (by said producer).

This time Imus, for who knows what reason, just jumped in the mud along with him.
   
If people really want to hear good interviews w/ content there are plenty around---in NY there are Brian Lehrer and Leonard Lopate---there is Terri Gross and her syndicated NPR show.

In all honesty I may have heard him only once or twice (Imus) years back and could not bear to listen to someone I can barely understand because he sounds like he has marbles in his mouth---just like the great Greek orator who used them better his speech. But he took them out.

   As to the comment by---I think it was Ron in response to the comments regarding saying something terrible in the privacy of your own place --it is your business but if a neighbor hears a tape of it should you be forced to move. Of course not. The BIG difference is that Imus and those like him are polluting the public airwaves. Those airwaves are, in theory, owned by all of us and have to follow certain standards. OK--Cable is different. Imus is not on cable (except NBC---which has cancelled the show).

   The interesting thing now is why NBC and perhaps CBS will cancel him---I doubt it has anything to do with high moral standards. Rather sponsors jumping ship left and right.   But, don;t run any benefits for Imus he will survive withouth his 10 Million a year (imagine that)---his ego may not.
   
    As to his charitable work. I tip my hat (if I wore one) to him---many people also do good works and are not as sleazy. Gee, I bet even Hitler set up orphanages for the little aryan kiddies left bereft by the deaths of the parents in his war.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:42 PM

"There is a huge difference between a Chappelle, who, like Richard Pryor, Lenny Bruce, etc; are comedians with a social point of view in their humor."

There is a difference in execution of the humor, but I do believe that all are, or were, attempting the same thing.   Imus just wasn't funny and his attempt at humor had little relevance. Chappelle, Pryor and Bruce had the relevance.    While Imus is no longer funny in my opinion, there was a time when his programs had a great deal of social relevance and he did poke holes at social issues. I remember his character of Billy Sol Hargus that skewered all of the evangalists that were prevelant at the time.

As for comparing him to Hitler, that just isn't fair and a poor analogy. There is sense that ALL of us need to balance our affairs.   Supporting an orphanage would not "clear" Hitler and while some may disagree, I don't think Imus's remarks were nearly as bad.

And PDQ, With all due respect, Kendall's statement cannot be anything but opinion either. Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:00 PM

"Recently I was reading Stan Hugill's brilliant collection, and there
were some dated references that would be considered racist by todays standard."

A couple of folks here have had US Government employees try to
tell us not to sing certain politically incorrect songs (no,
not with the n-word) from that collection. I believe we replied
with their oath of service (something about uphold and protect
the Constitution), followed by the 1st Amendment and refused to
even HAVE that conversation.

But Mr. Hahn, and dianvan, and others keep driving right over the
salient point without ever noting it--- if we're to get in the
business either of government censorship or de facto public
censorship of public commentators, 'legitimate' or not, we run
into the problem of who's to be the arbiter of who is 'legitimate.'

If someone says 'cut off the funds, bring the troops home by
date certain' someone else will say 'That's aiding and comforting
the enemy, that's treason, he's just like Hanoi Jane, fire him.'
Someone else claims that the WTC attackers may have had a legitimate
underlying beef--- fire him too. Get out of the mainstream, and you
get fired or fined.

I don't care for Imus, either. I find him tiresome and boring. He
is, none the less, a legitimate social commentator--- some would
even say a 'journalist'--- and to start demanding his censure or
firing is to embark on the slippery slope where they may just come
for YOU or your favorite commentator next. 'Are you now or were
you ever a member of...' How quickly we forget.

It leaves me cold to think of the FCC doing it. Ever since Janet
Jackson's boob fell out, the local radio station has to play
the censored version of the Who's 'Who Are You.' And one of the
local DJ teams, who always ended with Eric Idle singing 'Always
Look on the Bright Side' now has a version where Eric sings
'...life's a piece of isht, when ya look at it...' That kind
of crap stopped for a few years. All because of Janet Jackson's
tit, it's back. I'd hate to think of political commentators being
subject to similar winds of whim.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:01 PM

One more time. There is an article circulating on the internet that accuses Bill Clinton of doing away with his enemies. That has been exposed as an outright lie. Now, in my opinion, anyone who continues to repeat that lie, knowing it is a lie either has no respect for the truth, or they are blinded by their hatred of Bill Clinton.
That commandment, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" doesn't say "Unless he's a democrat, or you hate him".

I'm not in favor of government censorship but freedom of speech has limits, and people like Imus and Stern should be held accountable.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:58 PM

CNN is reporting that the Imus radio show has been canceled.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 05:32 PM

Kendall disappoints me. He is old enough to remember the blacklist and the rush for, what was then, political correctness. Don Imus should not have lost his job any more than Zero Mostel, Abner Biberman, Dalton Trumbo and the rest should have lost theirs. If America is the land of free speech, it must be the land of free and foolish speech. Don Imus' audience, apparently, like his style of "humor" and, if some of the postings on this thread are to be believed, they are not all sheet wearing yahoos. (I wouldn't know. I am. neither, amused or edified by shock jockery. I find the practice of calling women "ho's" degrading but I found it, no less, degrading when Snoop Doggy did it). Kendall, among others, seems to have a different standard of acceptable behavior based on skin color.
I, really, shouldn't be singling out Kendall. He is, no more, predictable, in this regard, than the majority of posters I think it comes with the genre. The folk scene, in America, at least, has been, for years, mostly white and leftist. As I am white and leftist, I have felt, very much, "at home". It is comforting to be around people who think like you (and it is, socially, easier to be around people who look like you.)
I am not preaching from the bleachers. I understand why the black community would be up in arms. It was their ox. I understand them because, I have that reaction when I hear a joke about Jews, told by a non-Jew. It is a reaction that exposes my vulnerability, my insecurity. Perhaps, I should get over it. Perhaps, we, all, should.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 05:52 PM

Yeah - seems that no matter how many times white people tell non-white people that they "should get over it", they don't. What's the matter with them?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:41 PM

Mike Miller: I have to disagree.   The Blacklist is a whole different can of worms than firing an offensive person because of public demand by the offended people and their supporters.
               As I said earlier, he probably will get canned for the wrong reasons.   If the networks thought there was money in keeping him they would have. Seems like they just realized a cash cow got gored (by his own doing) and now will have to look for another one. Imus was not censored. No government insinuated itself into this situation---though one has to wonder why F***K and other such words get one fined and banned but words that Imus used are not an issue with the FCC.
               My solution to all this---let the FCC stop banning certain words---that is selective. Let the market decide who stays on and in Imus' case, while, as said, the firing is for the wrong reasons they are the correct reasons for the networks and also satisfy the protesters. Happy ending. Except for Imus who can surely survive on the nest egg he has laid away---and his ego--well, that is another matter.
               Strange how we are concerned about the firing of a man who makes 10 million per year and really don't care a lot about the marginally employed and their problems---from job outsourcing to medical coverage.   Now that is obscene.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM

Mike Miller...don't forget to include Jimmy the Greek and the guy who said women could not be good golfers because their breasts get in the way on your list.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 07:15 PM

There is alot of meat left on this bone but my initial speculation of who the Imus replacement will be remains in question.
CBS has not named a succesor and MSNBC seems to have David Gredgory in the still warm Imus chair for now.

Perhaps they need another octogenatian like Larry King so they could go with ethnic humorist Don Rickles

or maybe they need more shouting and lure Bill OReilly away from Fox. or Laura or Rush etc.

But most
likely they are going to go with a black face. Whitmore is my favorite. He calls All Sharpton and Jesse Jackson racist terrorists who do their damage/defamation/devisivness and leave the city time after time.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 07:20 PM

I'm not singling out Mr. Imus. ANYONE who uses the airways to spout that kind of crap should be reined in. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 07:25 PM

In my opinion Mr. Imus has worked hard to be fired from both his jobs. He has earned his early retirement. Now he'll probably write a book about his firing, blame the corporate leaders for not defending his freedom to defame others, and earn more millions in the process.

Well, I think there's something to be learned from his example. Some folks here may not want to learn that lesson but fortunately they are not in position to reach millions of readers or listeners.

I certainly would not support the FCC trying to provide and enforce standards, especially since major commissions were appointed by the Bush Administration. But I do support the idea of mass protest.

I also personally apologize to Ron Elesko for my willingness to fire back at him with dripping sarcasm.

I do wonder if Imus will still meet with the Rutgers basketball players now that he's fired.

Nice weather we're having!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM

Now that will be interesting. No more job to protect---so, will he meet with the basketball ladies?    It would surely show that he is sincere if---and only if---it were guaranteed that he is never given a live mic again.

Nothing has been mentioned---except for my comment about the NY Times piece---about the producer/writer for Imus. Over the years he has been the mud slinger and slop carrier---and he also started the conversation. Should he go?   Not much publicity in it but I do suppose he made a wee bit less money that Imus---but, probably, did well. I am sure that the exit door at CBS can accomodate more than one person leaving at a time.

Now---to send in a resume since there is finally some open time.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:27 PM

Am I the only one who caught Imus' boo boo calling Sharpton, "Reverend Hargis"? I almost fell on the floor laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:30 PM

Screw Don Imus... He a racist and has a history of saying stuff that gives the rednecks in our country the ***warm and fuzzies***...


But Don Imus is small potatoes... Screw the FCC who has allowed mega meadia corporations to screw over our country in general and allow the right wing to own the puiblic air waves...

ClearChannel pisses me off alot more than "Dumbass" Don... Hey, we all (unfortuantely) know lots (way too mnay) Don Imus in our lives... I wish I had a buch fri every time I've hed to indure some redneck use the "n word" in my presence... So why Don Imus gets promoted to the top of the redneck class is beyond me...

But ClearCorruptChannel is much worse in the big scheme of things... It controls the not only the medium but the message... Yeah, not everyone has internet radio and so for tghe masses it's CCC and their payola and their thinkin' that America only need 10 bands and every other musiacn can rot in Hell.... And every patriotic citizen who is willing to stand up to the Bush regime can rot in Hell (think Dixie Chicks here)...

Yeah, screw Don Imus... He's just one creep...

Go after the real culprit: the FCC and their bed buds, ClearCorruptChannel...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:34 PM

He's just been fired, according to NPR.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:38 PM

I presume you know redneck is an offensive word.mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:39 PM

When's the FCC gonna get fired???

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:41 PM

Well, not just been fired... Actually, it happened some 6 hours ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:12 PM

Hey, Sharon, where ya been? Nice to see you!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:18 PM

Everybody has a track record. If this was the first time Imus had pulled something like this, then maybe he'd deserve another chance.

But his track record is dismal--it's not the first time for him by a long shot. Being outrageous may be his stock in trade--and up to now good for ratings. But it's time for that to stop--and this is as good an incident as any to make a stand against it.

You can be entertaining--even controversial--without not just stepping over the line but barrelling through it--which is what Imus, Michael Savage, dear Ann Coulter--and a long list of others--have done and still do.

He richly deserved to be fired.

I just read a quote in the WSJ very gemane to this--Free speech is enhanced by civil discourse. Something Imus--and many others--need to learn.

And those who defend Imus on free speech grounds definitely need to learn it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:19 PM

"germane"

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:22 PM

Well, Ron, I think you have a fine point. Next time Ann Coulter calls me a nappy-headed liberal, I'm gonna get her ass canned.

:D

A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:24 PM

Good luck. But you may have to stand in line.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:26 PM

Behind a few widows--who may have another statement in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:37 PM

Actual WSJ quote was "Free speech is enhanced by civility"--and it comes from a New York Times article last Sunday on the topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:52 PM

I suppose that the Imus firing will delight the masses enough to forget that he was guilty of, drumroll, please, offensive humor! I can not repeat this often enough, this firing is a threat to us, all. Hasn't there been enough history of the muzzling of unpopular ideas to satisfy that segment of society that has been, most often, muzzled? We can't ban language we dislike. It is, in a word, unamerican. This has been a costly victory for the left. In a system where money rules, progresssive ideas are, always, outre. If there is one faction that needs protected free speech, it is the left.
So, cheer the fall of a pest but be wary of the precident.
The best thing the African-American community can do is to make itself as impervious to snide attack as did other, once maligned, groups. In our society, this is accomplished through wealth and political power. We can becry the shameful origings of Black America.
We can recall and retell the indignaties, the breaking of families, the cruel Jim Crow laws. We can weep for the present state of the black community but our tears will not bring them equality, prosperity or self-respect. Only they can achieve those ends and the best we can do is get the hell out of their way while they do.
Well, there are a few things we can do. First, while African-Americans were, indeed, brought to America against their wills, other
minorities were not. The US, probably, does owe special treatment for the children of slaves (Empowerment Zones, scholarships, contract preferences,etc)but we do not owe special "Minority" status to other groups. Second, we must, at some point, realize that, neither, welfare or heartfelt hand wringing has done the black community one whit of good. What should be offered is acceptence and financial encouragement of black owned business. (This IS still a capitalist society and business is the path to success).
Every year, countless thousands come to America, seeking wealth and freedom. They achieve these by opening and operating small businesses
often employing their fellow countrymen. They buy homes and they build churches and they flourish. This should be the path of African-America but, for the most part, they have been unable to find that path. And, to tell the bitter truth, we are not helping. Since the great civil rights victories of the 50's and 60's, the plight of the urban black family has worsened in spite of Affirmative Action, bussing and a welfare program that has managed to break the spirit of a generation.
Do you want to do something positive for race relations? Get off this
peripheral Imus flap and start patronizing black business. Spend some time in the black community so it becomes your community, too.
Encourage interracial dating. Hell, marry a black person. It's tougher to discriminate against meshpuchah (family). Talk is cheap.

                           Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,Oscar
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:31 PM

Firing Imus is a crock but not surprising. Just another example of the double standard in this country. When is little al sharpton going to apologize? Lots of repercussions for what has happened and unfortunately it starts with Obama's electibilty. He's now toast because it will be seen that he is "controlled" by the black leadership. Imus first then the fallout will sink Obama and the black leadership(empty suits) asked for it. Sorry Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:19 AM

Bill Hahn says that the firing of Imus is nothing like the blacklist.
It is, exactly, like the blacklist. Mr. Imus commited no crime. He didn't, even, do an overtly racist act, unless you consider a crude sense of humor as evidence of anything other than standard shock-jock-shlock, most of which I find offensive. When it comes to putting down women, Imus has nothing on Howard Stern. But Bill Hahn says that the blacklist was nothing like that.
Let me lay a little history on you. The decade from 1946 to 1956 was marked by fear of commies. Entertainers, who espoused progressive causes, were labeled traitors and enemies of the people by those groups who disagreed with their positions. These groups brought pressure on theatrical and motion picture producers who, in response, fired the accused artists. Mr. Hahn, the only difference between then and now is that you identify with the blacklisted artists and you do not identify with Don Imus. (Not identifying with Don Imus may be the only point on which we agree)

                            Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:31 AM

Fwiw, thread.cfm?threadid=100728&messages=6 'Natty Dread' is an above the line Mudcat thread that focuses on the cultural meanings to Black women-in particular-of 'nappy hair'.

So far in that thread you'll find the lyrics to Bob Marley's song "Natty Dread", information about the meaning of the word 'natty' and the word 'dread', as well as more opinions about the Don Imus remarks as they relate to the phrase 'nappy hair'.

If you have a mind to check that thread out and post to it, please feel free to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:34 AM

Mike Miller--you are right. None of the rest of you get it yet, but you will.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:45 AM

"This has been a costly victory for the left"-Mr Miller

I guess I just don't see this as a Left vs Right issue. Are you saying people on the left think what Imus said was awful and people on the right think it was ok?

I consider myself left of center (slightly) but I think the question this topic brings up is three-fold : 1) Was what Imus said unforgiveable, and did it demand the sacrifice of his career? 2) Is there an atmosphere of permissiveness regarding language, behavior, and mutual respect that is eroding at a rapid pace, and the Imus situation is just a small manifestation of it? 3)Should such speech be abrogated by government sanction, penalized through boycott, or tolerated as necessary to our principle of free speech?

These are important questions that should have responses based on our personal beliefs and not our adherence to a conservative or liberal POV.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:32 AM

Right you are, Lonesome. My point is that this is not a left/right issue. Freedom of speech is so ingrained in the American experiment that we were the first people to, specifically, encode it into our law. That means that I can say whatever I want and, conversely, I am responsible for my words. Unless my words are, immediately, dangerous (physical threat,shouting, "FIRE!" in a theatre) they must be tolerated. Sometimes, that's a little hard to do. There is a lot of scary stuff being said and a lot more stupid stuff, too.
I wonder how many Don Imus fans think he should be fired. I suspect most, if not all, the protesters were non supporters of the show.
I understand why the black community was upset. Hell, I'm a Jew. You wanna tell a Jew joke, it had better be funny. And you had better not be Mel Gibson.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:22 AM

I agree with beardedbruce, imagine that!

"Please, boycott Imus: write letters to the network not to let him on. THAT is fine- But to call for government regulation of speech is not justified."

I also agree with mg when she says that girls that hang with guys who talk that way are rewarding abusive behaviour. That has to stop. Peer pressure is the only way to make this type of language socially unaceptable to teens. Talk to the kids. Make them realize that abusive language leads to abusive behaviour.

pdq, you said, "...you seem to be able to misinterpret people's statements as well as dianavan does." Could you be a little more specific or do you go to bed at night with a hate on.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:49 AM

"No more job to protect---so, will he meet with the basketball ladies? "

I understand he did/will still meet with them.


Can we link the Dixie Chick threads to this one? or is freedom of speech only for the liberals?




"And those who defend Imus on free speech grounds definitely need to learn it. "

So, who would YOU have decide what is protected speech? Obviously what you agree with, but how about the rest?

And what will you do when someone decides YOUR comments are "over the line"?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:59 AM

Freedom of speech is not limited just to not yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. Obviously, that restriction is to prevent panic or riot. How long do you think Imus would get away with his hateful remarks if he were standing in the middle of Harlem?

If this was his first offense I'd say give him a two week unpaid furlough. It's not, he has a history of this, and it's time to square him away.We can not regulate morality but we sure as hell can regulate behaviour.We do it all the time and without regulation life would be a snake pit.

I'm a liberal but I'm also a realist.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:11 AM

"If this was his first offense I'd say give him a two week unpaid furlough. It's not, he has a history of this, and it's time to square him away."

So how many times can one criticise Bush before it becomes ok to keep one off the airways??? Or compiment him? ( it is the principle that is important: Are YOU prepared to have those you disagree with apply their standards to you?)

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:14 AM

"Obviously, that restriction is to prevent panic or riot. How long do you think Imus would get away with his hateful remarks if he were standing in the middle of Harlem?"

Inciting to riot IS a punishable offence: When someone does that, they should be prosecuted FOR THAT.

So, an anti-Bush protester at an American Legion function should be locked away for how long? Or a Jew or Black at a Klan rally?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:19 AM

Subject: RE: Natty Dread
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 11:07 PM

http://www.answers.com/topic/natty has this definition for 'natty':

"nat·ty (năt'ē)
adj., -ti·er, -ti·est.
Neat, trim, and smart; dapper.

[Perhaps variant of obsolete netty, from net, elegant, from Middle English, from Old French. See neat1.]

nattily nat'ti·ly adv.
nattiness nat'ti·ness n.

The adjective natty has one meaning:

Meaning #1: marked by smartness in dress and manners
Synonyms: dapper, dashing, jaunty, raffish, rakish, smart, spiffy, snappy, spruce"

-snip-

http://takeourword.com/TOW127/page2.html provides this information about the origin and meaning of the word 'natty':

"Most etymologists seem to favor the explanation that the word is a variation of the obsolete netty "neat, elegant" from Middle English net "clean, tidy" (14th century). This would make it a relative of modern English neat, which also comes from Middle English net. Net also meant "neat, clean" in Old French, hence modern French nettoyer, "to clean". The source of the Old French word is Latin nitidus "elegant, shiny", from the verb nitere "shine".   

Interestingly, neat dates from the 16th century, while natty first appears in the 18th century in Grose's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue: "Natty lads, young thieves or pickpockets." The Indo-European root here is *nei- "to shine", which may have given English the word lilac, from Persian nil "indigo"."

*******************************************************************

So, if a radio announcer says a woman or group of women are "Neat, trim, and smart; dapper." the announcer should be fired? After all, listening to much of BET or VH1 one would certainly believe the proper form of address to any attractive woman would include the word "ho".

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM

And, btw, I have repeatedly in the past expressed my dislike of the term "BuShites" for those who do not fall into apolectic fits at the mere mention of the President's name. So, I will call upon everyon to boycott those using this derogatory term, and demand legal action to make sure they never post again.

Or so you seem think would be proper.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:26 AM

"So, an anti-Bush protester at an American Legion function should be locked away for how long? Or a Jew or Black at a Klan rally? "

Or a Civil rights protester in any Southern town in the 1960's?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:29 AM

Dies Committee (1938–1944)
The House Committee on Un-American Activities grew from a special investigating committee established in May 1938, chaired by Martin Dies and co-chaired by Samuel Dickstein, himself named in Soviet NKVD documents as a Soviet agent. In pre-war years and during World War II, it was known as the Dies Committee. Its work was supposed to be aimed mostly at German American involvement in Nazi and Ku Klux Klan activity. As to investigations into the activities of the "Klan," the Committee actually did little. When HUAC's chief counsel Ernest Adamson announced that "The committee has decided that it lacks sufficient data on which to base a probe," committee member John E. Rankin added: "After all, the KKK is an old American institution." Instead of the Klan, HUAC concentrated on investigating the possibility that the American Communist Party had infiltrated the Works Progress Administration, including the Federal Theatre Project.

The Dies Committee also carried out a brief investigation into the wartime internment of Japanese Americans living on the West Coast. The investigation primarily concerned security at the camps, youth gangs allegedly operating in the camps, food supply questions, and releases of internees. With the exception of Rep. Herman Eberharter, the members of the committee seemed to support internment.

In 1938, Hallie Flanagan, the head of the Federal Theatre Project, was subpoenaed to appear before the committee to answer the charge that the project was overrun with communists. Flanagan was called to testify for only a part of one day, while a clerk from the project was called in for two entire days. It was during this investigation that one of the committee members famously asked Flanagan whether the Elizabethan playwright Christopher Marlowe was a member of the Communist Party.

In 1939, the committee investigated leaders of the American Youth Congress, a Comintern affiliate organization.


[edit] Subversion
HUAC became a standing (permanent) committee in 1946. Under the mandate of Public Law 601, passed by the 79th Congress, the committee of nine representatives investigated suspected threats of subversion or propaganda that attacked "the form of government guaranteed by our Constitution."

Under this mandate, the committee focused its investigations on real and suspected Communists in positions of actual or supposed influence in American society. The first, such investigation looked into allegations of Communists in the Federal Theatre Project in 1938. A significant step for HUAC was its investigation of the charges of espionage brought against Alger Hiss in 1948. This investigation ultimately resulted in Hiss's trial and conviction for perjury, and convinced many of the usefulness of congressional committees for uncovering Communist subversion.[1]

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:42 AM

Newly fired Imus meets with Rutgers players
POSTED: 7:06 a.m. EDT, April 13, 2007

Story Highlights• Rutgers coach says meeting with Imus was "productive"
• CBS pulls plug on "Imus in the Morning" radio show
• Sharpton calls Imus firings a "first-round victory"
• Imus says he will not go on "some talk show tour"


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Hours after he was fired by CBS, radio host Don Imus met Thursday night with the Rutgers women athletes whom he had ridiculed with racist and sexist comments.

The Rutgers women's basketball coach called the meeting with Imus "productive."

CBS' decision to dump Imus came a day after NBC Universal decided to cancel his simulcast on MSNBC and followed nearly a week of cries for the firing of the radio host.

The Rev. Al Sharpton applauded the Imus firings as a victory in the battle against abuse of the airwaves. (Watch Sharpton say his efforts won't stop with Imus )

CBS said "all of us have been deeply upset and revulsed by the statements that were made on our air," in a written statement from CBS President and Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves, announcing the decision. (Watch what led to CBS' decision )

CBS, which carried Imus on 61 radio stations, had originally announced it would suspend his show for two weeks.

CNNMoney.com reports "Imus in the Morning" generated about $20 million in revenue last year, about one percent of CBS Radio division's total. (Full story)

The Rutgers team -- including the 10 players, their parents, coaches, administrators and religious leaders -- met with Imus Thursday night at the New Jersey Governor's Mansion.

"We were able to really dialogue," said coach C. Vivian Stringer. "I thought it was productive. I am extremely proud of our 10 young basketball members. I have been throughout this entire ordeal."

Stringer declined to talk about what was said during the meeting or the CBS decision.

Imus: 'I've apologized enough'
The outrage started last week, when Imus described the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos" the day after the team lost the NCAA championship to the University of Tennessee. (Gallery: Other controversial comments aired on Imus show)

Amid the outcry over his on-air racial slur, Imus said Thursday that he had "apologized enough" and that he will not go on "some talk show tour."

"I'm not going to go talk to Larry King or Barbara Walters or anyone else," Imus said on his flagship station in New York, WFAN-AM, which is owned by CBS Corp. and distributed "Imus in the Morning" nationally.

"The only other people I want to talk to are these young women at the team, and then that's it," Imus said.

NBC News President Steve Capus, appearing on CNN, said Imus' comments had "touched a nerve" within the organization and firing him was "the only action we could take." (Vote: Is Imus' career over?)

Despite being dropped by NBC, Imus hosted his show from the MSNBC studios in New Jersey, though he did not appear on TV.

"As you know, MSNBC folded up yesterday, so we're just on the radio," he said.

Imus was broadcasting his 18th annual radio charity fund-raiser, which has pulled in $50 million since 1990. It ends Friday.

"This may be our last radio-thon, so we need to raise 100 million dollars," Imus said, chuckling.

According to The Associated Press, Imus raised $1 million in the first five hours of Thursday's fund-raiser.

Imus' disparaging remarks about the Rutgers players prompted eight companies to pull their ads from his show: Staples, General Motors, Sprint Nextel, GlaxoSmithKline, Procter & Gamble, PetMed Express, American Express and Bigelow Tea.

Sharpton: 'No champagne bottle popping'
Sharpton had pressured CBS to cancel Imus' morning show, but the issue "was never about Don Imus," he said Thursday.

"It was about the misuse of the airwaves," he said.

"We cannot afford a precedent established that the airwaves can be used to commercialize and mainstream sexism and racism. But there will be no champagne bottle popping by those of us involved in this. This is not about gloating," Sharpton said.

Sharpton said he wants to show the media and the public that it is not necessary to "be misogynist and racist to be creative or to be commercial in this country." (Watch an analysis of whether other shows need taming )

Earlier Thursday, the father of a player on the Rutgers team joined Sharpton at a rally outside the network's offices.

Linzell Vaughn, father of sophomore center Kia Vaughn, said Imus' comments were "like a slap in the face."

"Do not disrespect our children," he said. (Players talk of hurt, seeking understanding)

Civil rights activist Jesse Jackson also spoke on Thursday afternoon outside CBS' offices and called for Imus' firing.

"This is not the first time this has happened on this show," he said, and spoke of previous Imus comments that Jackson characterized as racist and sexist.

"'Three strikes you're out' ought to apply to this position," he said.

Bruce Gordon, a member of CBS Corp.'s board of directors, also said he wanted Imus fired from WFAN.

Speaking Thursday on CNN's "American Morning," Gordon said that, speaking "as an African-American man in this country, Don Imus violated our community. He attacked beautiful, talented, classy women and when those women showed themselves to the country, I think that those words matched with those images made it clear to America that Don Imus was wrong."

Gordon is a former president and CEO of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:44 AM

Post of 13 Apr 07 - 07:19 AM was before my tea was steeped...

8-{E

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:03 AM

and perhaps we should link to:

thread.cfm?threadid=91580&messages=71#1742983

about a word that is, IMO, far more offensive...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:07 AM

He said 'nappy' (short article), which means something else entirely.

These guys, the Imuses and Sterns and Limbaughs reflect society as a whole, and what level of meanness and ridicule we can tolerate. I think Imus just found out where the line was when he went over it. People have been giving longer and longer leashes, and he hit the end.

He was fired, folks. He wasn't brought up on charges. He wasn't prevented from speaking elsewhere - the Dixie Chicks lost gigs because of what one of them said, so Imus losing his gig isn't that different. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution--

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

--protects the right to freedom of religion and freedom of expression from government interference. The government isn't involved in this, as far as I know.

He was FIRED, just like you would be if you pissed off enough customers, patrons or management types.

I hope this is indicative of a "we're not gonna take it anymore" shift, away from the degradation and humiliation of people by some in the media. As for Imus, he knows where the end of the leash is now. I'd guess he'll apologize without reservation if he's smart and get a job somewhere else, where he'll have twice the number of listners - even if they tune in only to see what stupid shit he'll say next.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:18 AM

Jeri,

Agreed.

As the former owner of a solid Jewfro, I would not consider it an insult.

As for Imus's firing, that is the network's right. But how many here demanding that bitterly complained about the treatment of the Dixie Chicks, because they AGREED with THEM? It seems that many here support free speech only when they agree with the comments expressed- and are willing to demand government action against any that they disagree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:27 AM

Charely you are correct that the market decide and not the FCC.
But the market as defined by Al Sharpton who says "this is only the beggining.

There is blood in the water. All further Sharpton rallies should be held in Salem.

bearded bruce is a patriot to our Constitution in this matter as am I.

____________
that being said...

It was said no one has called for cruel and unusal punishment for Imus, so let me be the first to toss out punishment such as cutting off the tongue or severing vocal chords, public castration and being imprisoned in a motel 6 for 7 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:30 AM

You have to own what you say. We argue about anything here - over and over, it seems. People are accountable for what they say in public. People have a right to their own opinions about what others say in public, and we have a right to form opinions about what the critics say.

People have a right to express themselves, but when the network (or even a website) says, "not here, not now" they'll just have to do find another medium. Are any of us lacking any freedom of speech because we don't have Imus's audience and a virtual soapbox upon which to stand?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:31 AM

Donuel's just a mesantripe.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:01 AM

How long, I wonder, will it take for BabyBruce to get tired whining & crying & talking to himself?

Only a BuShite would turn this into a "Liberal-Conservative" issue. Pretty soon he'll maintain that it's all Clinton's fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:05 AM

Greg F,

You have the right to be as stupid as you like.

I have bben pushing freedom of speech. Even those I disagree with get that right- which seems to be something you are not capable of understanding.

So lets line up all those civil rights demonstraters in the '60s and arrest them, since you don't want to let anyone have opinions that are not in accord with your view of the majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:08 AM

Or would you just say:

'Only a n----r would turn this into a "Black- White" issue.' ?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:08 AM

Greg F-

You may have missed that post! ;~)

Wolfgang-

"Mesantripe"? Is this some esoteric word that can be used for general abuse or some pun that doesn't necessarily translate to English? Inquiring minds would love to know more.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:22 AM

I'm ignoring the predictable political team playbook shit. If somebody wants to dangle the hook, it doesn't mean folks have to chase after it.

Beardedbruce, my point was that nobody DID arrest Imus. If someone spoke out loud and publicly back in the 60's and said that Blacks should stay in the back of the bus, and subsequently got fired from their job in the Public Relations department of a large corporation, would you claim their rights had been violated.

I'd put forth the theory that the person had screwed the proverbial pooch and would just have to update their resume and move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

We discuss defamation civily and with a touch of good humor and Wolfgang then goes ahead and defames me?

We deserve an explanation and an apology beofre we even begin the discussions on Wolfgang's suspension and firing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

Jeri,

And I agree. MY point was that there are still those who are demanding GOVERNMENT action, and who want LAWS to prevent this sort of thing- THAT is what I am ( strongly) against. If one wishes to boycott some group for their actions, that is FINE- BUT don't complain when some group decides to boycott something YOU are in favor of.

The Bill of Rights is too valuable to break for political purposes.
IN EITHER DIRECTION!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:28 AM

Perhaps he meant "misanthrope"?

I can't tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:32 AM

Jeri,

also, you said:

"If someone spoke out loud and publicly back in the 60's and said that Blacks should stay in the back of the bus, and subsequently got fired from their job in the Public Relations department of a large corporation, would you claim their rights had been violated."


If someone spoke out loud and publicly back in the 60's and said that Blacks should NOT stay in the back of the bus, and subsequently got fired from their job in the Public Relations department of a large corporation, would you claim their rights had been violated?


Is the case any different ( in terms of free speech) as I have stated it than as you did?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:39 AM

I am glad to hear that Imus met with the womens team for three hours last night, after he received word that his show was cancelled.

I am also glad that the FCC had nothing to do with this decision. CBS has every right to decide what they air on their stations. The freedom of speech belongs to them, not Don Imus.

What troubles me is the witch hunt mentality that took hold. So many people are saying "he has a history of this". If that is the case, why weren't other remarks met with such outrage? Sure there has been controversy, but usually when he said something nasty about the Clintons (and don't forget Don Imus played a role in helping Bill Clinton get elected for the first time) or when he calls a newscaster "ugly" or "fat".

There is no denying that he made racial comments. For a number of years he had a character that was supposed to be Cardinal O'Connor (the late archbishop of New York) who appeared on the show to call out the winning NY lottery numbers.   The character used a Barry Fitzgerald accent and perpetuated Irish stereotypes.   Imus would also call Arabs "ragheads". There were other numerous slurs and insults hurled at individuals and races, and it was one of the reasons I stopped listening.   Satire and humor is one thing but he took it too far. I used to enjoy Mel Brooks, but after watching the new version of The Producers you realize how tired and insulting these jokes have become.

For 30 years Imus was one of the top rated shows in the country. If he had a history, why was it tolerated for so long? Either our country accepted racism and dealt with it for so long, or people who listened understood that it was meant to be humor. Now in 2007, we either find his jokes stale or we will no longer accept such humor.

I worry that we have moved one step closer to book burnings and stronger government intrusion on what we can or cannot listen to. Supposedly the airwaves are public, but they are manipulated by the governent and media that manipulates the people. It is one thing to respond to the voice of the people, but I wonder if what happened with Don Imus was not just a knee jerk reaction by people who never heard his broadcasts and simply jumped on the bandwagon to call for his ouster.   The media coverage manipulates us. Why did it take a week for first adverstisers to drop their support? If they were so outraged, why did it not happen the next day? Why did MSNBC wait nearly a week to drop the simulcast? If they were truly outraged, why wasn't it cancelled the next day?   Why did CBS wait over a week to cancel the radio show? If they were truly outraged, he would have been gone the next day.

Again, I have no love for Don Imus. His early days showed a true genius, but as he grew - and as social norms changed, he opened his mouth and went down a path that used stereotypes and hatred as its source. Ultimately, it is not funny and it will end.    People need to change their attitudes for healthy change in society to occur. I feel that the firing of Don Imus statisfies a publics need for a scapegoat, but the problem remains -and is now made even deeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:54 AM

"If someone spoke out loud and publicly back in the 60's and said that Blacks should NOT stay in the back of the bus, and subsequently got fired from their job in the Public Relations department of a large corporation, would you claim their rights had been violated?"

BBruce, my first reaction to that was "DUH?!" It's still my reaction. Do you really think I'm that stupid?

No, of course I wouldn't say their rights were violated. This is NOT apolitial thing for me although I realize some folks have to look at everything to see if it agrees with their politics before they look at the specific issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:56 AM

Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of people were fired because they voiced opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:03 AM

Jeri,

The point about freedom of speech is giving it to those whose words you dislike. ( See holmes)

I agree with you ( re the firing, in EITHER case) but many of those demanding government action and laws are the same ones who objected to the loss of jobs to the Dixie Chicks. IMO, the sponsors had the right to listen to their audiance opinion, and decide whether to keep a controveral group ( or person) on. As was done in THIS case.

I have no problem with him being fired- I object STRONGLY to the idea that we should make laws restricting the freedom of speech of those whose opinions and views we object to.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

Also Sprach BabyBruce: The Bill of Rights is too valuable to break for political purposes.

Two words: P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act

And two more: Abu Ghraib

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:09 AM

Oh, look at the shiny hook...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:09 AM

Greg F.

And where have I ever supported either of those?


Let me say Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Darfur....

Should I think YOU are in favor of the events in those places?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:14 AM

BB: Out of the 176 posts on this thread, there have only been two or three in which someone suggested government intervention ... And they were 'way back there ... (correct me if I'm wrong!).

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:17 AM

BB, I can't believe you equate Imus'sexist, racial slurs with our criticism of Bush, Talk about apples and oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

kendall,

I DO equate your rights to free speech to his:
I support his right to free speech, as I support YOURS.

My point is free speech- I do not want the government deciding what is the approved topic or viewpoint allowed to be presented.

YOU seem to be saying that it is ok to ask the government to tell us what we can say.

"If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell, Preface to Animal Farm (1946)

"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech." Noam Chomsky, Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media (1992).

"I have fought censorship all of my adult life. To me, the most precious of all rights in this marvelous country called the United States of America is the freedom to think, write and say whatever is on your mind... That freedom also extends to thoughts that are stupid, ignorant or incendiary. No one needs a First Amendment to write about how cute newborn babies are or to publish a recipe for strawberry shortcake. Nobody needs a First Amendment for innocuous or popular points of view. That's point one. Point two is that the majority-you and I-must always protect the right of a minority-even a minority of one-to express the most outrageous and offensive ideas. Only then is total freedom of expression guaranteed." Lyle Stuart in his introduction to The Turner Diaries

"The price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish." Robert H. Jackson


"The principle of free thought is not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought we hate." US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in United States v. Schwimmer (1929).
"He wrote something stupid, a bunch of words that say something we don't agree with. It's only words and ideas, it's not like he beat someone up, he's not committing violence or hurting people, he's simply saying something offensive that we do not want to hear because we don't like it. If we suppress ideas we don't like, the proponents of those ideas will probably fester in secret societies and explode in double-plus ungood ways and we will like those results even less. If we allow people to see their ideas, and we ignore them, they've had their chance and they don't have to feel cheated about not getting exposure. Or if we really don't like their ideas and really need to keep them from convincing other people to believe in them, the answer is to tell people why and they'll learn. But you can't just beat people up because you dislike their stupid opinion. If we go that route, then anyone who is willing to use force can suppress any opinion they don't like, and maybe support opinions we don't like. Then what you get is a society of brutality where it isn't the best ideas that are seen by others, it's only the ideas that have the most vicious thugs to back them up. And it becomes very hard for people to be willing to express any opinion if someone can just pop them one because they say something someone else doesn't like." - Supervisor 246 in Paul Robinson's Instrument of God.

quotes from wikipaedia

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:46 AM

They are not apples and oranges, Kendall, unless you happen to be the greengrocer. Unpopular speech is the issue and, in this case, unpopular humor. Tolerance is, I fear, tempered by era. In the recent past, the nation was stunned by Clark Gable's "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.". Nowadays, non-scatological comedians are rarer than forthright senators. The moral mood of society is acrobatic. Today's up will be tomorrow's sideways. Our tradition of protected free speech is our assurance of continued and enlightened debate. So, I have to put up with Mel Gibson, African-Americans have to ignore Michael Richards and you have to suffer whoever is saying bad things about New England folksingers. And we, all, have to endure the constant cries from those who want to stifle the voices of opposition.
I might add that Mr. Gibson is, still, making movies. I guess Spike Lee was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:55 AM

"BB: Out of the 176 posts on this thread, there have only been two or three in which someone suggested government intervention "


Actually, I count 6- 2 on the 10th, 2 on the 11th, 1 on the 12th, and 1 on the 13th ( That call for "laws" or "regulation") Another 10 or so besides mine that say how bad an idea it is.

But even one call for government control of speech should be commented on.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:41 AM

They're apples and oranges when you're trying to decide who you think is the biggest jerk, which I believe was what Kendall was talking about. I think Imus is, if only because he hurt more people - not just offended their sensibilities. Then the rest of us had to wonder what those young women must have felt like, with a big media icon who never met them and whome they never hurt calling them names.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:58 AM

Re read my posts. At no time did I advocate government censorship. Calling Bush a nincompoop, an incompetent moron on this forum is in no way the same as a national figure on national TV referring to a group of exceptional, classy young ladies as "nappy haired street whores."

With freedom comes responsibility. That's the thing that these foul mouth adolescent shock jocks don't get.

I also have Jewish friends, and I don't appreciate Spike Lee or "Rev" Sharpton or Jesse Jackson making remarks such as calling NY "Hymie town".
To call a Jew a Jew is one thing (not offensive) but to call a Jew "Hymie" is an insult that should offend everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:02 PM

I wish Imus had been fired because people stopped listening to his show or due to his employers sense of moral outrage at his behavior. He was fired because CBS and MSNBC thought their bottom lines would be enhanced by doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

Keep in mind that the force behind the dumping of Imus is the charming and talented Al Sharpton. If his indignation at the public use of racially offensive language does not ring hollow to you, consider this(excerpt):

Democrats Embrace "Impressario of Hatred"
BY FRED SIEGEL
The Wall Street Journal, Feb. 29, 2000

"..But at Freddy's [a Jewish-owned store in Harlem], Mr. Sharpton was even more malevolent. He turned a landlord-tenant dispute between the Jewish owner of Freddy's and a black subtenant into a theater of hatred. Picketers from Mr. Sharpton's National Action Network, sometimes joined by "the Rev." himself, marched daily outside the store, screaming about "bloodsucking Jews" and "Jew bastards" and threatening to burn the building down.

After weeks of increasingly violent rhetoric, one of the protesters, Roland Smith, took Mr. Sharpton's words about ousting the "white interloper" to heart. He ran into the store shouting, "It's on!" He shot and wounded three whites and a Pakistani, whom he apparently mistook for a Jew. Then he set the fire, which killed five Hispanics, one Guyanese and one African-American–a security guard whom protesters had taunted as a "cracker lover." Smith then fatally shot himself.

Eight people died, and so evidently did the conscience of liberal Democrats. It was Al Sharpton who had the honor of asking the first question at last week's debate, held within hailing distance of the Freddy's massacre. "

For those with the time and stomach for it, I recommend googling Mr. Sharpton's activities in Crown Heights--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 12:24 PM

"Actually, I count 6- 2 on the 10th, 2 on the 11th, 1 on the 12th, and 1 on the 13th ... "

Okay, six.

"Another 10 or so besides mine that say how bad an idea it is."

And I imagine, without checking back, that at least some of those were posts that were ALSO saying that Imus SHOULD be fired or suffer some kind of consequences.

"But even one call for government control of speech should be commented on."

I agree. And you and several others did. But I felt that you got to blurring the call for action against Imus, on the part of many posters, with the call for government regulation, on the part of two or three posters (in six posts). That's why I made my observation above.

Okay, here's a question - not a rhetorical question, but a philosophical one: can we differentiate between expression of offensive IDEAS (clearly defended by the constitution, and by the quotations in BB's earlier post) and use of offensive LANGUAGE (possibly not protected)?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

Pointing at the offenses of other "sewer mouths" does not excuse what Imus did.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

"Pointing at the offenses of other "sewer mouths" does not excuse what Imus did. "

No, but pointing out the precidents that have been set and the "standards" that have previously appeared to be acceptable does give an understanding as to what led to his words. It is not acceptable, and he deserved to be called on the carpert.

What this points out is a change, for the good, in our behavior and tolerance.   Hopefully it will not signal and end to freedom of speech and government intervention in such matters.

The worst kind of censorship is self-censorship when we become afraid to speak our minds.

Of course the decision was motivated by dollars, not morals. It was a business decision, and it does not make it wrong to be considered as such.   These companies are beholding to stock holders and they would be in violation of their trust to allow a program that is not making money to continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:31 PM

"Okay, here's a question - not a rhetorical question, but a philosophical one: can we differentiate between expression of offensive IDEAS (clearly defended by the constitution, and by the quotations in BB's earlier post) and use of offensive LANGUAGE (possibly not protected)? "

I do not see how you can differentiate- *** I *** find the term "BuShite" to be both inaccurate and offensive- but who decides if that is the word or the idea?

If someone decides that a word is offensive, how can we then discuss the topic? Is it OK for one group to use words that offend another group, while the other group is not permitted to use words because those words offend the first group? Who gets to make the "bad word" list?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM

All the rhetoric surely contributed; but the bottom line on what caused Imus' firing, was sponsorship. His evaporated by a series of withdrawals by large corporations, such as AmEx, who felt they would be wasting their advertising money backing Imus.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:53 PM

This is "issue" is as much about Al Sharpton as it is about Imus--

Imus dismissal, lacking any actual policy, principle, or legal underpinning, is, most likely rooted more in of fear of what Sharpton can do when he taps into "black anger"--Based on what he has done. it isn't an unreasonable fear--He didn't exactly pour oil on the water during the Crown Heights Riots, when he led marches, shouting,"No Justice--No Peace!!!!"--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:11 PM

Ron, I didn't mean to imply that this being a business decision made it wrong. I just think it means the firing lacks a genuine moral imperative. In my opinion this episode is not going to lead to a new model for public discourse, it is a blip that will soon pass. I hope I am wrong, I would really like to see people treat each other with respect, in public and in private.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:27 PM

memo to other miscreants who find themselves embroiled in an Imus moment...

Do not go on Al Sharpton's show

If you are friends with someone like Harold Ford ask them for help.

Take a leave of absence before anyone can suspend of fire you.

Do not defend yourself on air.

Eventually say how the crude langauge of people like Nixon and GWB corrupted your world view.

Do an attonement tour like Bill and lay low for 6 months to a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:27 PM

If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate. The "tatooed nappy hos" comment was drawn from the (C)rap community in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM

who cares who said it first.

Context matters
yet hate still spatters.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:36 PM

"If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate."

I don't think anyone on this forum would be too upset about that ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM

"If CBS is going to be consistent, they should end the (C)rap format on every radio station they own or operate."

No less than Bill Cosby has said the same thing. He caught a lot of grief for it, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:41 PM

MS-NBC talk show host Tucker Carlson (where Donohue once had a TV show) has just been named by CBS to host a game show next season. The show is called "Who Do You Trust?" The answer to that is not Tucker's dad's friends at the neocon contrivance which has largely replaced the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). That would be the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, co-chaired by Tucker's father, former Voice of America and Corporation for Public Broadcasting chief Richard Carlson. FDD has Gingrich, James Woolsey, Joe Lieberman, and Louis Freeh as its "Distinguished Advisers." It is ironic that a day after CBS canned Don Imus it picks up the annoying neocon "Jimmy Olson look-alike" Tucker Carlson to host a game show. Yes, America, the media is controlled by a tightly-knit cabal of corporate gnomes.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:46 PM

Speaking of Bill Cosby, a few years back I heard a re-broadcast of a commencement address he gave to college students. I call it the "Are You Dead" speech. The man is a serious thinker and a much better leader for young Black folks the Revs Sharpton or Jackson.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:49 PM

There was a very good point made on NPR this morning--- probably
very few of those who so vehemently protested Imus' remark were
regular Imus listeners.

In other words, the MARKET forces didn't shut him down, but rather
the roundabout pressure on the advertisers to pull their advertising
or lose the business of those who, absent his offensive remark,
had no interest in Imus in the first place.

The only thing that could be described as a legitimate MARKET
force taking Imus out would be if those who would otherwise have
continued listening tuned him out.

So it's a bit like my getting out in the agora and saying something
that someone finds offensive, and them telling my boss that they
won't buy my company's products unless he fires me. (The analogy
falls apart a bit, because I'm not paid by the company to speak
in the agora; on the other hand it's strengthened by the fact
that Imus is a journalist, or a pseudo-journalist.)

While I believe that censorship by the government is horrible,
I also believe that 'censorship of ideas with which we disagree
by indirect boycott' is also very dangerous.

Don't watch or listen to Imus if that's the way you feel.

Speak out in opposition to his ideas.

But when you start maniuplating the market to 'cut off his
air supply' I think that you have embarked upon the same
slippery slope that was the McCarthy-era 'blacklist.'

Remember, the 'blacklist' wasn't an official government
program. It wasn't like movie companies and entertainment
venues HAD to refuse to hire anybody on the 'list.' It is
rather that various indirect economic pressures would be put
upon them if they didn't comply.

This kind of stuff is almost worse than an actual governmental
intervention: at least you can take that to a court of law and
get it reversed. Who's to be the arbiter of a mob that demands
that you be silenced and deprived of your livelihood.

However, I believe Imus will be back within a month or two. Maybe
not on CBS or on MSNBC, but instead as the head of his own
production company, and syndicated ala Gerry Springer or Howard
Stern. Maybe he'll be on on cable, or on satellite radio. So
long as he has an audience (and I contend that 95% of his
audience didn't care about the remark, because they 'get' that
that's how he is or because the agreed with it, and that a
further 10% of people who didn't listen to him now will) he'll
make a tidy living being Imus.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM

Greg B., I almost said something to that effect earlier but wasn't sure how to say it. I have never liked it when an interest group vocally pressures companies to pull ads. It removes the moral imperative from the argument and turns it into simply a question of dollars and cents.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:35 PM

How about a poll? Majority rules, eh?

Who thinks "Bushite" is offensive?
Who thinks "Bushite" is as offensive as "Nappy haired street Ho".?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

I am not offended by "BuShite" but it isn't directed at me. I do think it is intended as an insult, please correct me if I'm wrong. It is not even close to the same level as "Nappy headed ho."

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

"How about a poll? Majority rules, eh?

Who thinks "Bushite" is offensive?
Who thinks "Bushite" is as offensive as "Nappy haired street Ho".? "


As I said, YOU don't get to decide-

*** I *** find it offensive. Are you saying that the words some find offensive should be subject to vote? I guess the use of n----r in the South was OK, back when a majority thought so? Or Hymie is OK, as long as there are more people who hate Jews than care about it?

It does not matter which is MORE offensive- IF you ban one, you are subject to having others banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

If you don't see the difference, it's because you don't want to. And, I DO get to decide what's offensive to me.

I understand Imus met with the Rugby team AND apologized AFTER he was fired. That lifts him a few notches in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:23 PM

"And, I DO get to decide what's offensive to me."

But you deny me that same right?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

WHO has been hurt..

The Gov.of New Jersey, as I understand it, was headed for the Don Imus - Rutgers team meeting when he was involved in a hit and run accident that has left him with a broken leg and multiple rib fractures.

The women are now getting hate mail over the Imus flap. Don's wife said "This is just wrong, Please send the hate mail to her husband instead."

PS
Indeed GWB's racism is worse than an Imus racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

Spokesman: Corzine not belted in during crash
POSTED: 3:03 p.m. EDT, April 13, 2007

Story Highlights• NEW: Acting governor asks for prayer for Corzine, family
• Spokesman: Governor apparently not wearing seat belt
• Corzine in critical but stable condition, doctor says
• Governor was on way to host meeting between Don Imus, Rutgers team


CAMDEN, New Jersey (AP) -- Gov. Jon S. Corzine was apparently not wearing his seat belt as required by law when his official SUV crashed into a guardrail, leaving the governor hospitalized in critical condition, a spokesman said Friday.

A state trooper was driving Corzine to a meeting between Don Imus and the Rutgers women's basketball team Thursday night when another vehicle, swerving to avoid a pickup truck, hit the governor's SUV and sent it into the guard rail on the Garden State Parkway.

The crash broke the governor's leg, six ribs, his sternum and a vertebra. Authorities were searching for the pickup truck driver blamed for causing it. (Watch EMS workers evacuate injured amid wreckage from the crash )

Corzine, 60, did not suffer any brain damage in the crash. But he won't be able to resume his duties as governor for several days, if not weeks, and he won't walk normally for months, Dr. Robert Ostrum said after performing surgery on the governor Thursday night at Cooper University Hospital.

Friday morning, the hospital's trauma chief, Dr. Steven E. Ross, said Corzine was stable and improving, and that he could be removed from a ventilator within the next few days. Corzine remained heavily sedated because the pain from chest injuries made it difficult to breathe, Ross said.

Senate President Richard Codey became acting governor about 7 p.m. Thursday after Corzine's office notified him that the governor had been injured.

'He's in serious shape'
"He's in serious shape, but he's alive and going to survive. Hopefully, he'll be back to work in a few weeks," Codey said Friday on WNBC-TV.

At a Friday afternoon news conference, Codey requested that every house of worship in New Jersey offer prayers for Corzine and his family this weekend.

Corzine was riding in the front passenger's seat of the SUV when a white pickup truck swerved to avoid a red pickup truck that had moved onto the highway from the shoulder, State Police Superintendent Rick Fuentes said. The white pickup hit the passenger side of the SUV, sending it skidding into a guardrail. The red pickup left the scene.

"I'm sure every red pickup truck is being looked at by neighbors and everybody else, so I'm sure they'll find it," Codey said Friday afternoon.

Fuentes said it was unclear whether the governor was wearing his seat belt at the time of the crash, but Corzine spokesman Anthony Coley said Friday that it appeared he was not.

Seat belts are mandatory for everyone in front seats in New Jersey; the fine for violating the law is $46.

Troopers in a vehicle following Corzine's administered first aid and called for help. Corzine, Trooper Robert Rasinski and a gubernatorial aide were flown by helicopter to the hospital. Rasinski had minor injuries and the aide was fine.

When Corzine arrived at the hospital, doctors said he was conscious but had several injuries: a femur broken in two places that had lacerated his skin, a broken sternum, six broken ribs on each side, a head laceration and a minor fracture on a lower vertebra.

Ostrum said a rod was inserted in Corzine's left leg, and additional operations were scheduled for Saturday and Monday. The injuries were not considered life-threatening, but it would be at least three to six months before Corzine could walk normally, he said.

"He's got a pretty significant rehab in front of him," Ostrum said.

The crash occurred around 6 p.m. while Corzine was en route from Atlantic City to the governor's mansion in Princeton to moderate a meeting between the Rutgers women's basketball team and radio personality Don Imus.

Imus was fired from his CBS radio program Thursday amid furor about racially charged comments he made about the team on air. The closed-door meeting went on without Corzine, and lasted for about three hours.

Corzine, a Democrat who gave up his seat in the U.S. Senate to become governor, went into politics after being ousted from Goldman Sachs, where he had been CEO, in a power dispute in 1999. He was elected to the Senate the following year. (Read about Corzine's background and career)

The acting governor, Codey, also served as acting governor for about 14 months before Corzine took office last year following former Gov. James McGreevey's resignation over an extramarital affair with a man.

Corzine was the third straight New Jersey governor to break a leg while in office. McGreevey broke his left leg in 2002 during a nighttime walk on the beach, and Christie Whitman broke her right leg while skiing in the Swiss Alps in 1999.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM

man , sadly the govenor is totally shattered.
Its worse than I heard.


thread drift--->

Just like the green zone bombing was said to have killed 2 and now it is 8. Iraqi parlament leaders were quoted as saying the surge and security measures are an utter failure.

The great Bahgdad bridge has also been severed and destroyed effectively seperating the Sunni and Shia neighborhoods on the city.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:14 PM

Donuel 4:25: Don's wife said "This is just wrong, Please send the hate mail to her husband instead."


That quote confused me (All right, I am easily confused) so I checked on it. The quote is: She told listeners "if you must send e-mail, send it to my husband," not the team.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:18 PM

Did anyone else notice that none of these young women even have nappy hair?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:31 PM

Kendall, Imus met with the basketball team, not the rugby team. More importantly, you said that he called them "nappy haired street whores". He did no such thing. Rather, he used a rap term that is not within his normal vocabulary in an attempt to sound black and hep. His attempts were clumsy, not unlike white blues singers from New England affecting a mumbling drawl.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that, had Imus, really, wanted to call the players harlots, he would have used a word like whores, hookers, pros or girls of the evening. This is a tempest in a teapot and does not merit all this pious wringing of hands.
Imus' firing is not a repeat of the Monday Night Football "Rush" to judgement. ABC was justified in releasing Rush because they didn't want controversy on their show (I guess when they hired him, they had, never, heard him speak). MSNBC can make no such claim. Imus has been saying dumbass stuff for years. That's why he had such a large audience. People like to listen to dumb stuff. His audience knows when he is joking. They like his crudeness. Those of us who don't go in for that kind of entertainment should continue to not listen to him. That is our right and, I believe, our moral duty. But, it is, neither, duty. responsibility nor right to limit what kind of entertainment others may enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:36 PM

I demand we expunge the name Nappy Lamare from all discussions of Dixieland Jazz!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:41 PM

He "said nothing of the kind", Mike Miller? Imus said "nappy-headed hos". Which part don't you understand?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Slag
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM

You ought to see my hair (what there is of it ) when I wake up from my nappy! You'd "Ho, Ho, Ho!" too! So, the stringy headed boor disses with "Knappy headed hoe" (Echoing what you can hear in any number of "Rap Songs" and I use the term "song" loosely. It's all disgusting. I feel for those girls, though. They are hard workers on the team and excellent college students and deserve respect and honor.

In this land of the free everyone has the right to the expression of their opinion right, wrong or otherwise. However they don't have the right to public forum. That is either a privilege or a commercial opportunity and Imus should be (and has been) deprived of those.

Maybe some of the rappers will take note and tone down their own disrespect for their fellow human beings and especially members of their own race! It's hard to express indignation for someone who is saying the same thing they are saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:58 PM

"It's hard to express indignation for someone who is saying the same thing they are saying."

I don't find it hard. Neither do a lot of other people ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

According to a news report tonight, CBS and MSNBC received a series of phone calls from Sharpton and Jackson demanding that Imus be fired and threatening a black boycott. So, I guess, we will now turn to these two paradigms of racial equality to determine who says what where on the airwaves. Imus was not in violation of FCC regulations and Sharpton has made it clear that this is just the beginning.
I am contemplating a boycott of all products advertised on CBS and MSNBC to let them know that I expect them to monitor ALL their programs for racist remarks or sexual innuendo. Imus was screwed. I neither approve of nor agree with his comments BUT they were mild compared to some of the other crap that is allowed to continue. Hymietown and Tawana Brawley - someone else owes an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:22 PM

BB, come on get real. I'm not denying you the right to decide for yourself what is offensive. I'm simply saying that "nappy haired Ho" is way more offensive than "Bushite". As far as I know, "Bushite" is a kickname for anyone who believes in GW Bush.No more, no less.

Mike, don't try to tell me what I heard and saw. I saw him say it, and I heard him say it.

There is no use threshing old wheat. I've said all I need to, and that is that.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:29 PM

Jesse Jackson long since apologized for his 1984 Hymietown remark.

The blurted epithet or phrase that reveals a racist mindset is far different, imo. We seem to ALL be racist, much as we may deplore it. The gut and the brain are sometimes at great odds.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

The social and political history of this country is riddled with the casualties of 'mis' speak. My favorite is the remark that is credited with turning the election of 1884:

Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion

I don't think that Don Imus is proven a bigot by that single incident. I do think he has been hoist by his own petard, but my was it unpredictable!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

I am bewildered by all the dispute over "freedom of speech" here. There are no laws stating Imus can't say what he said....just as there are no laws stating that 'rap' or 'hip-hop' performers can't say it.

   Imus didn't violate any law, he violated good taste and judgement. He used a degrading & insulting term in a VERY careless and inappropriate way. He exercised his freedom of speech, and the sponsors and employers exercised THEIR right to say they weren't going to put up with him saying stuff like that on THEIR turf anymore! - Virginia Sen. George Allen exercised HIS freedom of speech, calling someone "macaca"....and HE learned the limits.

Howard Stern was pushing the limits on his radio/TV show, and was close to getting canceled for it....so he moved to satellite radio.

I can stand on the corner with a sign saying "Down with Bushites" if I wish....it isn't even obscene. But if I am in BB's home and say it, he can tell me to leave....just because HE finds it ...ummm...'offensive'.
You simply have to learn what the limits are. Lenny Bruce tested the limits to make a point about what KIND of 'offense' was actually legal, and in what circumstances. Comedians ever since have used 'bad words' in night club routines, but they mostly can't do it on prime-time TV...or at a grade school show.

    Imus simply let bad taste in awkward attempts at 'humor' go too far once too often. He allowed his stupid language to 'directly' insult the wrong target...and it cost him a feww million dollars.

'Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:45 PM

Bill's right. Imus broke no law. He broke a rule. He probably didn't even break an explicit rule, but he certainly broke an implicit rule or two. And one of the rules he broke is one that governs the relationships between employers and employees everywhere:

If you say or do something that drives away customers, you are subject to termination.

It has nothing to do with freedom of speech. The First Amendment applies to government, and only to government. It does not apply to the workplace.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:08 PM

This "incident" has more to do with Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson trying to reassert their political leadership after the emergence of Barak Obama than anything else. By forcing one of America's iconic broadcasters from the air, they are showing that they are still forces to contend with--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 09:44 PM

"Comedians ever since have used 'bad words' in night club routines, but they mostly can't do it on prime-time TV...or at a grade school show."

Folkie singers-of-sea-songs, though, seem to feel that that policy doesn't apply to them - or so I gather from some threads I've followed on this forum ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 10:53 PM

?? What might that mean? I know 'some' singers of sea songs will sing the 'original' version on occasion, but that's a pretty broad generalization. Do you have specific reference in the threads?
**ANYONE** takes their chances on not getting invited back if they make the wrong choice...even folk singers.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:12 PM

Sorry for the fumble figer goof above.
How about Martin Langston. We have not heard from him for a while and it could be provocative if not fun,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:22 PM

Well, I wouldn't know how to find the threads now - but there've been two or three within the past year or so in which the advisability or inadvisability of toning down sea-songs in public performance has been discussed. The very idea that you might want to avoid singing certain things in front of children or adults likely to be offended was treated with derision and indignation, generally. Much talk of "political correctness" run rampant, etc. I guess you'll have to take my word for it - or not - unless someone else can provide a thread refence.

If I have time later, I'll nose around and see what I can find ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:12 AM

Robo--"that single incident". It was part of a pattern, as has been already pointed out.

Anybody who doesn't like the way pressure was brought on advertisers--in fact that's a far better way than government interference--as most posters here should see.

Big article--front page--in the WSJ today on the Imus affair. It was not just pressure on advertisers, though that was certainly most of it. It was also some people of integrity in the corporate world. Bill D has cited one instance.

"He (Imus) has flourished in a culture that permits a certain level of objectionable expression that hurts and demeans a wide range of people" said CBS CEO Leslie Moonves.

Precisely.

Also, this time Imus picked the wrong victims. These girls were precisely the opposite of Imus' smarmy racist remark--neither "nappy" nor "ho's". In fact they were playing the game exactly the way the US supposedly wants--going to college and obviously rejecting the sick stereotypes some others seem to endorse.

This is exactly what Bill Cosby's message was. And if blacks who do this get this sort of response from "the media"--personified in Imus, that's just criminal.

Just for that, he should have been fired--on the spot.

Why didn't it happen? That's already been noted--money talks--and Imus got good ratings.   So it took awhile to build. Actually, less time than it might have--in fact years ago it might well not have led to Imus' firing.

The WSJ's headlines convey it well: "Behind the Fall of Imus, a Digital Brush Fire: In a Blur, Watchdogs, Blogs, E-Mail Spur Radio Host's Firing".

"This time it was different. The target was a sympathetic team of young athletes. In the ensuing furor, the lucrative and often vulgar business of talk radio found itself running into new limits, as the Internet sent Mr. Imus to millions of PC screens, driving executives, advertisers and employees to distance themselves from his racist words."

Since the advent of the Net, in a big way, these things will go faster than ever. And anybody who thinks that just the Left is exploiting the Net has conveniently forgotten about the Swift Boat affair, in which the Net also played a substantial role.



BB--I deduce from your comment "What will you do when somebody decides your comments are over the line?"--that I perhaps have said something that annoyed you. As the Pope would say, I'm so sorry you were offended by anything I said.

Would you mind specifying which comments were "over the line"? And perhaps you'd like to compare mine (and yours) with, say, the collected works of the late lamented "Martin Gibson", who has been "fired", in a manner of speaking, from Mudcat.

You have to admit, he's set a high standard for the rest of us.

Now would you like to defend his body of work--as some others who defended his right to spew his poison?

By the way, to return to Mr. Imus, it was pressure from people on advertisers, more than anything else, which caused his firing. If pressure from advertisers causes my firing from Mudcat, I can live with it. But somehow, I don't think it's that likely.

Also, as I recall, you did not object when there was a campaign to boycott Citgo, because of alleged ties to Chavez. That is directly comparable to the Imus situation--and it's part of capitalism. Supply and demand. We will not buy your product unless you stop sponsoring racist fools. Just as "we will not buy Citgo gas because of ties to Chavez".

Simple as that.

Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:28 AM

Ron O--

It's a bit of a jump from firing Imus to book-burning. I think we can tell the difference. Hope you can. And don't worry, we are on the lookout for book-burning advocates. As, I dare say, are you.

"The problem is made deeper". Actually, no.   This is the start of addressing the problem--which you yourself have pointed out--"stereotypes and hatred". Your pontificating is a little confused.   Whether the Imus affair will push the corporate world to go beyond this to address the (c)rap cited earlier, who knows? It obviously depends on the music-buying public. One possible good indication--"hip-hop" is sinking in popularity, according to sales--at least I've read this. ( Perhaps you have better information). Whether consumers are just getting it free over the net is a question.

But this is not a good incident to try to cite Holmes, etc. Free speech is not in danger because a smarmy DJ was fired. Not least since, as has been noted, there are plenty of places for a smarmy--but popular--DJ to find work.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:27 AM

I've heard people say, "With all this PC shit going on, I don't dare open my mouth anymore afraid some innocent remark I make will upset some broad."

I find it hard to believe that anyone with more than a teaspoon full of brains is unable to decide what will offend and what won't. Remember the "Golden Rule"?

Your right to say anything that crosses your mind stops where my ear starts.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:49 AM

Ron,

When you learn to read, it would be nice if you read what I posted, instead of putting your words in my post.




"You have to admit, he's set a high standard for the rest of us.

Now would you like to defend his body of work--as some others who defended his right to spew his poison?"

If you do not understand the difference between defending a person's right to speak and defending what a person says, you have a real problem. I suggest you go back to school and try to learn something.




"By the way, to return to Mr. Imus, it was pressure from people on advertisers, more than anything else, which caused his firing. If pressure from advertisers causes my firing from Mudcat, I can live with it. But somehow, I don't think it's that likely.

Also, as I recall, you did not object when there was a campaign to boycott Citgo, because of alleged ties to Chavez. That is directly comparable to the Imus situation--and it's part of capitalism. Supply and demand. We will not buy your product unless you stop sponsoring racist fools. Just as "we will not buy Citgo gas because of ties to Chavez".

Simple as that.

Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable? "

AS I HAVE STATED, the company he works for has every right to fire him, and people have the right to boycott them and their advertisers if they wish. *** I *** was commenting on the calls that "there should be a law" (mg) or that he should have been regulated ( kendall).

What part of GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE IN FREE SPEECH do YOU find so desirable?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:53 AM

kendall,

"I find it hard to believe that anyone with more than a teaspoon full of brains is unable to decide what will offend and what won't. Remember the "Golden Rule"?"

"As far as I know, "Bushite" is a kickname for anyone who believes in GW Bush.No more, no less."


And n-----r was just a word to describ blacks back before the Civil War.

The use of "BuShite" has been as a derogatory name for anyone that does not toe the Liberal Party line, especially here.

So, If I call you, repeatedly a "DemoCrap" whenever you make any comment I do not like, even after you had asked me to stop, you would not consider that I was trying to be insulting?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:17 AM

Washington Post:

Just the Beginning
Firing Don Imus should be the start, not the end, of the dialogue.
Saturday, April 14, 2007; Page A18


WHAT A NERVE radio shock jock Don Imus struck. His denigration last week of the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos" sparked protests that first cost him his deal with MSNBC and ultimately his perch at CBS Radio. But what Mr. Imus did is a symptom of a larger problem. And it didn't take long for the debate to move from his racist and misogynistic musings to gangsta rap, its artists and the record companies that have helped move hateful words and negative images of women and African Americans into the mainstream. Maybe now those who have been battling this for years will finally be heard.

The right to freely express one's views through art, music, writing and the spoken word is a jewel of American democracy. It is a right we cherish and will defend. But the right to express doesn't mean there is an obligation to consume. Degrading racist and sexist lyrics and images don't have to be celebrated and consumed. That's what led Tipper Gore more than 20 years ago to push for content-warning labels on record albums marketed to children.

When Mrs. Gore led that movement in 1985, it was in reaction to "Purple Rain" by Prince. Today, the lyrics of the songs on that album would seem quaint compared with the raunchy rhymes of rappers like 50 Cent ("P.I.M.P."), DMX ("My Niggas") Lil' Kim ("Shut Up Bitch") and Ludacris ("Ho").

In an appearance on MSNBC this week, Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, which has been criticized for airing coarse music videos, said, "I told the record industry, look, guys, if you guys want to stop making these kinds of video, believe me, I have no problems in not showing them." But more active leadership to try to get the industry to change was needed back when Mr. Johnson was speaking up. It is still needed now.

The common use of racist language and negative images of women, African American women in particular, won't end if those with the power to effect change sit on the sidelines. The late C. Delores Tucker railed against rap's misogyny. The Rev. Calvin Butts of New York used to bulldoze rap CDs on a Harlem street to protest their lyrics and lurid images of black life. And the Rev. Al Sharpton, who led the campaign to fire Mr. Imus, has spoken out repeatedly about this. If anything positive is to come from ending Mr. Imus's 30-plus-year-radio career, the revulsion at his comment will extend to the gangsta-rap artists and their record companies.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:27 AM

Ron Davies - you are naive. Even you should be able to see where the path to "book burning" begins. Playing spin doctor won't deny it. Freedoms are not simply removed. The process begins slowly as the populace is brainwashed. Already signs are evident, such as the FCC's heavy-handed dealing with "obscenity". It is very true that the FCC had nothing to do with it, but there were calls for the FCC to do something - notably from Al Sharpton who helped galvanize this witch hunt.

You are also naive when you say that boycotting from advertisers is the best plan of action. While it is true in theory, and I do support boycotts, you fail to acknowledge that these boycotts can also be orchestrated. The blacklist of the 1950's was such a case. The American Legion played a big role in having many people blacklisted, including the Weavers. Naturally not all members felt that way, but having an organization's name behind a boycott allows greater impact. The fact that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were behind this movement against Don Imus shows the power of organizations.   

Control the media and you can control the way people think. The deregulation by the FCC that begain in the 1980's backfired against liberal causes. Instead of allowing for greater diversity and sharing of ideas, it led to corporate ownership of the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:44 AM

Ron, do you still have a radio show?

Play some songs commonly referred to as 'coon' songs, and call them that on the air. Play the tune called 'Nigger in the Woodpile' and name it. Don't give any disclaimer whatsoever about the use of the words.

See how long YOUR job lasts. Let us know when you plan to do this, because I want to hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:09 AM

Jeri - don't be ridiculous. Did I ever say that people should play these kind of songs? Did I ever say that I agree with Imus? Pay attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:18 AM

What a head-ache this thread has become!

I was pleased that the Rutgers basketball team had the grace to accept Imus's apology, while still objecting to the words he used.

It is instructive to learn from certain Mudcat posters that the motives of Mr. Sharpton and Mr. Jackson should be more closely scruntinized. Is that because they are liberal or because they are Black, or both? I suppose there may be some merit to the accusations but I do wonder about the underlying motivation. Maybe it's easier than that, just the need of a troll to get further attention.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:21 AM

It wasn't hard to see from the start that DOn was going away.

When his resurrection comes there will be some interest but not nearly the kind we have seen during this feeding frenzy.

Ron,yup, a famous poitician said the fish starts to rot at the head.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:40 AM

Ron Davies wrote, "Free speech is not in danger because a smarmy DJ was fired."

You (Ron Olesko) wrote, "Even you should be able to see where the path to "book burning" begins. Playing spin doctor won't deny it. Freedoms are not simply removed. The process begins slowly as the populace is brainwashed."

I was responding to this, because you seemed to be saying Imus shouldn't have been fired as a result of offending a lot of people, because firing him was a step on 'the path to "book burning"'.

I think it was that whole brainwashing thing I quoted that made me think you believed offending a large number of people wasn't a good enough reason to be fired. If I misunderstood, and if you were NOT saying his firing had anything - precursor or otherwise -to do with government censorship, I apologize.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:42 AM

Now Don Imus knows how Dan Rather feels.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:43 AM

Charley,
It is not because they are black or liberal but because these two men have a history of lying to suit their political needs and playing the race card for the same reason even to the point of inc iting riots.
Look into their histories and decide for yourself.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:53 AM

I apologize for my angry response too, Jeri. My point was that "organized" boycotts can be very dangerous. The best plan of action to stop racism is to pull support, but as we saw with the blacklist - simple thoughts can be controlled. We live in a dangerous age where EVERYTHING is circumspect.    While we need to fight against racism and intolerance, the methods that we choose and how we go about doing it can impact on our freedoms.

If Don Imus worked for me, I would have fired him too. However, I would also have paid attention to what his show was about and tried to stop it before it reached this point.   For CBS and MSNBC to fire him now is hypocritical. I believe in progressive discipline and giving people a chance. What Imus said about the Rutger's team was wrong - but if he had been allowed to make previous statements of a similar nature and was rewarded for his actions (large contracts, no reprimands, etc.) then what he did was not abnormal behavior in the eyes of his employer.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:59 AM

Ron, we both realize that it was against all odds that Don was not fired by weasely executives before now. There was always a green reason not to until now.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:02 PM

BB--

"his right to say something"--so Mudcat was wrong to ban "Martin"? Anybody with any powers of obsevation would note that certain of his endearing habits are no longer seen here--like mocking people with handicaps.

Sorry, the consensus is that banning Martin was a step forward. Too bad if you can't see that.


And you also need some help reading. Please point out exactly where I have called for government regulation of smarmy bums like Imus.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 12:40 PM

Donuel, there is no problem with having "green reasons". They are a business and they are beholding to their stock holders. It does make them hypocrites as they are not being honest with their reasons for firing Imus. If they had any sense of moral outrage, there would have been other actions before this.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:31 PM

yup

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:02 PM

BB, as that old shallow, vacuous, lying two bit actor used to say, "There you go again." Are you able to think in any way except extremes? Bushite and Democrap the same thing? You are
hopeless.
Don't you think that something like, "Kerryite", or Goreite" would be a lot closer to the same as Bushite?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 05:53 PM

Ron Davies---You make the comment about the the head of CBS' great moral lecture for the reason of firing Imus. As I said at the start of all this---well, toward the middle, if they do it--and they should it will be for the wrong reasons. I was right.

Moonves waited until the sponsors bailed out and then spouts about the great morality issue. Now---that is hypocrisy. If CBS had fired him the next day---or years ago---they would have the moral authority for their statement---not after lining their pockets by his sleaze (as others do with the likes of people like Stern and more) for years.

This brings me to Sharpton and Jackson.   I cannot say anything about the pot calling the kettle anything since that, surely, would be misconstrued. Let me just say that Sharpton and Jackson have their agendas and if they see a parade they get in front to lead ASAP. These are the leaders of such monumental morality that Jackson called NYC "Hymietown"---and of course he apologized, Sharpton ---who can count the times he has stepped over the line. Let us start with the Brawley case.   

Imus, to his own discredit, gives himself away when, in the heat of his confrontation with Sharpton, used the expression "...you people". So much for not getting to his real feelings.

Except for the basketball team, it seems that no one in this entire matter has any great morality---from CBS (NBC is sort of a gray area here--to me)Imus, and the rest of the colorful drum majors.

If all practiced the golden rule and listned to intelligent discussion on less listened to radio outlets we would all be in a better place. Of course, like TV, the "less listened to" outlets are that because they do not cater to the lowest common denominator---or as a novel about radio in the 1950s said of the audience---"...the great unwashed".

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:13 PM

The one positive aspect of this whole sorry business was the fact that the parties directly involved met and apparently talked - the meeting supposedly lasted three hours - and came to a reconciliation. To my mind, that's the only way forward - sitting down, face-to-face, listening and talking. I don't know anything about this Imus, but I really think this must have been a humbling experience, and a "learning" experience.

These kinds of problems emerge in the first place when people are able to demean others without ever having to look them in the eye ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:22 PM

I,personally, have little doubt Imus WAS sorry and that his apologies were genuine....he strikes me as a guy who is not overtly racist. But he also seems to me like a guy who is likely to make a similar faux pas again. He leads with his mouth and pops off with smart-alec remarks without thinking because he is trying to affect edgy cuteness.

   I do wish his producer, who sit in the romm and who FED him the line that started this mess had been mentioned more. I guess HE lost his job, too...but he has as much blame as Imus in the whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

Exactly---the producer.   I mentioned that earlier. Hopefully he was canned as well. If you read my earlier post you will see mention of him and how Imus who, for years, stayed above the fray decided, for some reason to hop into the mud that his producer writes.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:50 PM

Ok, Bill...sorry I missed that

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:26 PM

As far as I'm concerned, Imus is about as funny as John Kerry.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 07:28 PM

Hey...they look sorta alike. Do you suppose?...naawwwww...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:13 PM

God has just weighed in. Don Ho is banned from all future public performances.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:40 PM

Don Ho? Say it ain't so.

I wanna gitchigumee all the hutchie
moony hula girls
in the world
their happy nappy snatchie
tastes like honey money goo
in their curls
yu n me an me in yu ah
an yu n me an me in yu
watcha gotcha gimme gimmie hula goo

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 10:23 PM

Yikes..now we are being nasty about Pacific Island girls it seems. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:25 PM

Don Ho died today.Donuel and PDQ, you are both sick bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 11:35 PM

I guess this means I lose my radio show. Oh, the humanity!

(M.Ted:grow up)

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:39 AM

In the end, the Bible thumpers Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were the only ones who made out on the Imus thing.

         Personally, I'm not buying any products from Proctor and Gamble, General Motors, or American Express any more. If they hadn't knuckled under to the Bible thumpers, the whole thing would have blown over.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 01:18 PM

Too late for me to grow up, PDQ;-)--Isn't embarassing when you make fun of someone, only to find out they just died? I'm sure you're not the only one that's got caught on this-- that'll teach you to go for an "easy" joke-

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:51 PM

Ringslinger I thought the sponsors who pulled out were more numerous than GM etc.

Don Ho mudcat scandal - perfect example of playing GOTCHA.

As for "sick bastards", I do get sick from time to time and I was a bastard in the legal sense for my first 3 years of life.

As for the Amos limmerick about the apostle Paul, perhaps MR. Ted wishes to inform the Vatican and recommend excommunication
.
There was a young man from Glenglozle
       Who found a remarkable fossil
       He deduced from the bend
       And the wart on the end
       'Twas the peter of Paul, the Apostle


Mr. Ted
Playing GOTCHA is for The Inquisition or Salem Witch trials, HUAC or suicide bombers.

_________________________________________________

The funniest thing I heard about Imus today was TIm Russert saying that a black person sent him an email about his disgust with Imus, Tim asked if there was anything he liked about the show. The emailer said he liked the character that would put a fed ex box on his head and pretend to be a Cardinal from Boston with and Irish accent who would say outragous and bawdy things...TIm wrote back "Those are MY people!"

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 05:22 PM

I am not a Bible thumper.Just an ordinary guy who would like to see a return to civility.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM

You are hardly ordinary, Kendall.

Perhaps you, and some of the others, would like to learn a bit more about the peculiar allegiances of Rev. Sharpton, who seems to be at the center of this media frenzy--

This piece exposes his connection to Roger Stone, the right-wing republican dirty trickster who let the group that shut down the recount in Dade County in the 2000 "election". A Bush Covert Operative Takes Over Al Sharpton's Campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 07:07 PM

A Bush Covert Operative Takes Over Al Sharpton's Campaign.
Is both enlightening and sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:04 PM

The opposition to Imus went a lot deeper than Sharpton. The WSJ article makes that clear. The campaign that resulted from the "nappy-headed ho" remark started with a liberal watchdog group.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 10:44 PM

" The campaign that resulted from the "nappy-headed ho" remark started with a liberal watchdog group. "

Which I find interesting because Imus had more liberal supporters than he did conservative.   During the Clinton years, Imus was the mouthpiece for the left.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 11:56 PM

I've read the article, among many articles. A lot of people jumped on the bandwagon, out of the twin movitations, fear and opportunism--Sharpton is famous for joining in the front of every parade(someone said it above) and a lot of the bit players tasted blood, which had been missiing from their diet--

My point--it was stupidity, all around--and continues to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:36 AM

Ron,

Please show me where YOU get off saying "Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable? "

"certain of his endearing habits are no longer seen here--like mocking people with handicaps."

Instead, you tell people what they never said, and mock them for YOUR words.


How different are YOU from Martin Gibson, other than what side of the issue you are pushing on the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:44 AM

Kendall,

Please put on your glasses.

The referent here is "BuShite" ( NOTE THE CAPITAL "S") as used by such heroic killers of strawmen as Ron Davies and others- check back and see if he EVER missed out on the capital S.

So, YES, I deo equate "DemoCraps" and "BuShites" as insulting terms, especially when used to describe anyone who disagrees with a person, regardless of the other person's reasons or validity of point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:22 AM

"How different are YOU from Martin Gibson" ...

Now, now, BB - that's a real hit below the belt. I don't always agree with Ron, but we have yet to see him mocking the handicapped or sneering at someone who's lost a child - and I'm sure we never will. And I can't think of anything that really compares to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:38 AM

IMus lost his job because sponsors started pulling thier air cover. Follow the money.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:40 AM

Exactly what part of capitalism do you find objectionable?

well I have been asnwering this one for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:20 PM

"Your right to say anything that crosses your mind stops where my ear
starts."

Well, then. That's probably one of the most frightening anti-freedom-of-
expression assertions I've ever heard.

"The right not to be offended" as a basic human right?

Oh, my.

Bring on the Inquisition!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:23 PM

BeardedBruce- Could I ask a favor? When there are two "Ron's" involved in the discussion, and when we both use our last name, would you mind being a bit more specific when you post a message to one of us?   Speaking for myself, I don't like having an impression that I said something that I did not.   Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:17 PM

Oh - it's the OTHER Ron you were talking about - well - my remark still stands; he can't be compared with MG.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:30 PM

The "...liberal watch-dog group" referred to above is media matters for America. The leader of it was interviewed today on WNYC (Brian Lehrer) and states that the ultra conservites --such as Michael Savage-- call the "gay slander mongering sheet".   As the leader of the group, Paul Waldman, pointed out it is not a matter of left vs right but rather not letting the media devolve into an outlet for all the racism, sexism, and other such matters. He, further, stated that Imus has been doing this for a long time and they have called him and others on these matters. This time he, Imus, just happened to pick the wrong subject----not a politician or some powerful figure that people like to see skewered.

My own feeling---what I earlier---then the parade started and the drum majors with all the skeletons in their own closets got in front of the line.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:04 PM

The real problem, I think, surfaced when Sharpton and Jackson figured out they could make themselves look good by throwing Imus to the dogs. That's when the sponsors pulled out. Apparently they wanted to look like Sharpton and Jackson, which is a little hard to figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:05 PM

Where is Don Firth

was he fired too

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Peace
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:58 PM

"Don Imus replacment"

I sure hope no one connects this thread title with Canada's plans for its toxic waste . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:51 AM

Washington Post:

The Ills Behind That Slur

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Tuesday, April 17, 2007; Page A21

Why is it that I am experiencing a terrible bout of cynicism watching all the post-Imus hand-wringing?

It's certainly not that I have any personal stake in Don Imus's firing. I never appeared on his show. I'm not being self-righteous. I was never invited. And that was a relief. I don't think I could have handled Imus.

Nor do I have a problem with his being fired. My heroine in this controversy is my old friend and colleague Gwen Ifill, of whom Imus said when she was assigned to the White House beat in 1993 by the New York Times: "Isn't the Times wonderful? It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House." He survived that, partly because Ifill moved on to greater things.

Ifill got at the essence of what was wrong with Imus's racist and sexist words about members of the Rutgers women's basketball team when she wrote last week in the Times, scorning "people who cannot grasp the notion of picking on people their own size." Ifill did not call for Imus's firing, but he was cooked by her essential point: that the Rutgers women should not be rewarded for their "grit, hard work and courage" by getting called ugly names on the radio. It's good that African Americans have more influence now than they did when Imus demeaned Ifill 14 years ago.

Finally, I have no use for the degrading aspects of a rap culture that has popularized slurs against African Americans and women -- and this despite my teenage son's occasionally successful efforts to get me to understand hip-hop.

Back in 1995, I wrote in praise of the late C. Dolores Tucker, a longtime Democratic Party activist, for her alliance with conservative Bill Bennett against misogynistic lyrics. Teaming up with Bennett did not make her popular in her own party. I quoted her as saying: "African American women got tired of their children calling them 'hos, bitches and sluts." Bless her memory.

So I suppose I should welcome our grand new national conversation about race, gender, shock talk and incivility. After years in which advocates of "political correctness" were criticized for allegedly promoting censorship, maybe we'll realize that public voices have a responsibility to think before they slur.

But I'm not optimistic. I can't help but see this as yet another example of how we are far more comfortable discussing what certain celebrities say than what we as a society do. We love to talk about "the culture" and what can be done about it because such talk is, quite literally, cheap.

Arguing about Imus does absolutely nothing to provide our poorest African American kids with better schools, health insurance, or a chance at college and higher incomes. We rightly heap praise on those noble Rutgers women, but we should ask ourselves whether Imus would have gotten away with comparably sleazy comments targeting less visible and less successful women, or men. I think we know the answer.

We don't want to talk about the structural problems of poverty, racism and class inequality. Words such as "class" and "structure" are so boring. It's much more fun to talk about talk.

But let's look at a few of the supposedly boring facts. According to the U.S. Census, black households in 2005 had a median income of $30,858, compared with $50,784 for non-Hispanic white households. The black poverty rate was 24.9 percent. The white poverty rate was 8.3 percent.

In 2005, according to the Justice Department, 4.7 percent of black males were in prison or jail, compared with 0.7 percent of white males. For men in their late 20s, just under 12 percent of blacks were incarcerated, compared with 1.7 percent of whites. Life expectancy for black men is more than six years shorter than for white men.

Yes, these numbers are an ongoing legacy of racism. And cultural factors, including family breakdown, are an important part of the story. But unless we spend a lot more time, energy, intellectual capital and money grappling with these facts, we can hold countless seminars on "Who Can Say What?"-- the words pasted over Imus's mouth on Time magazine's cover this week -- without doing a single serious thing to undo racism's gravest damage to our most left-out citizens.

What bothers me most is that all of us will feel so much better about ourselves after we condemn Imus -- or hip-hop or trash talk or whatever other target we pick. And when we've finished talking, how much will we have accomplished?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:40 AM

On the other hand, if we STOP talking, does that mean that we're actually going to do something, or that we're NOT EVEN going to talk? The talk SHOULD be just the beginning ...

I think most people would agree with this article - but I think many will take the wrong message from it - not that something should be done about the underlying social problems (which are seemingly so complicated that no one can do anything about them anyway), but that we shouldn't be bothered doing anything even about the irritants on the surface, because what do they really matter? In other words, some people will use the arguments in the article to reinforce their passivity rather than to support social activism.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:56 AM

"The culture that has given us such wonders as jazz, blues, baseball, Hollywood, the Broadway musical theater, rock 'n' roll, and on and on, is now specializing in too many instances in language and entertainment fit only for the gutter or a sewer.

Something has gone completely haywire when young American boys and girls are listening to songs like "Can You Control Yo Hoe" and "Break a Bitch Til I Die," by Snoop Dogg, formerly Snoop Doggy Dogg, formerly Cordozar Calvin Broadus.

"It's gotten pretty savage out there," said Tom Brokaw of NBC News during an on-air discussion of the Imus situation.

Mr. Brokaw, who believes that firing Mr. Imus was the right thing to do, said: "There's been an absence of civility in public discourse for some time now. The use of language across the racial spectrum, and across the political spectrum, and across the cultural spectrum, has been, in any way you want to describe it, debased to a certain degree.

"The words that you hear used commonly on the street, or on the air, or on radio, or in rap lyrics, are words that in the worst days of segregation in this country, in the worst segregated parts of this country, you would not have heard on radio. Now you hear them commonly."

The language, of course, is just a symptom. Mr. Brokaw went on to mention, in a tone that sounded a bit sad and somewhat resigned, that Americans had steadfastly refused to face the race issue honestly and head-on. "I had hoped," he said, "I guess somewhat naïvely 20 years ago, that we would be in a far different place than we are now."

We should also be in a better place in the way that women are viewed and portrayed in the culture. And one of the first steps in a conversation about how to honestly address these issues should be a discussion of how to get more more blacks, other ethnic minorities and women into positions of real authority in the major news and entertainment outlets.

Another part of the conversation should deal with why the bullying and degradation of other human beings is such a staple of popular entertainment in this country. One of the Rutgers players expressed astonishment Thursday night when Mr. Imus told her that making fun of people was how he'd made his living for many years.

The people who fought back against the racism and misogyny of the "Imus in the Morning" program need to keep the momentum going. Keep the pressure on the companies that sponsor this garbage. Keep the matter before the media.

Imus, Snoop Dogg, Michael Savage — it doesn't matter where the bigotry is coming from. What's important is to find the integrity and the strength to see it for what it is — a loathsome, soul-destroying disease — and then to respond accordingly. "

Excerpt from a NY Times column By Bob Herbert
Published: April 16, 2007

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 05:40 PM

Latest quirk in this whole thing is that the SUV of Gov.
Corzine was speeding at 91MPH, being driven by a State
Cop, when it went off the road. This isn't the first
'speeding gubernatorial motorcade' scandal in the Garden
State in the last decade or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 05:45 PM

BB, I have had my glasses on since Bush first ran for president. You make a good point with BuSHITE. But as you know shite is not a word native to America, and I didn't make the connection.

To that other comment on being offended, there was a time not many years ago when it was illegal to swear or use vulgar labguage in public. There was no inquisition, just common consideration for others. Too much to ask of the adolescent sewer mouths of today I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 04:48 PM

"To that other comment on being offended, there was a time not many years ago when it was illegal to swear or use vulgar labguage in public. There was no inquisition, just common consideration for others. Too much to ask of the adolescent sewer mouths of today I guess"

I agree with you on this- it is the idea of GOVERNMENT regulation/LAWS concerning what id acceptable speech that I am against. I have no problem with civility enforced by SOCIAL pressure- One does not need to invite people who offend one's sense of propriety. BUT the idea that the "GOVERNMENT should do something" or that the FCC should enforce standards ( especially in an un-evenhanded manner) IS a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 04:57 PM

The NJ govenor crashed at 92MPH?

Well the previous Govenor of New Jersey left office after admitting he was gay.

So its not the first time a NJ governor was rear ended.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 09:00 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 09:05 AM

BB, we agree on something. That's a start. It's too bad that it has come to this, that someone wants government regulation of free speech.But, there it is. I'm not in favor of government regulation in this case, but we own the airways, Not Don Imus or Howard Stern. Call me old fashioned, but I liked the times past when people had respect for others and themselves. Anyone who must use gutter language to express themselves have little to say that interests me.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 04:12 PM

Imus' sidekick-producer fired
POSTED: 3:01 p.m. EDT, April 20, 2007

Story Highlights• Bernard McGuirk fired from WFAN-AM/New York
• McGuirk's remarks led to Don Imus' infamous phrase
• McGuirk had been Imus' producer for 20 years

NEW YORK (AP) -- The longtime producer for Don Imus' syndicated radio show joined his boss on the unemployment line one week after the disgraced broadcaster was booted from the airwaves for racist and sexist comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team.

Bernard McGuirk, who joined the "Imus in the Morning Show" as producer in 1987, was let go late Thursday by WFAN-AM for his role in the ugly incident, CBS Radio spokeswoman Karen Mateo said Friday. CBS Inc., the parent company for WFAN, pulled Imus off the air on April 12.

McGuirk was one of Imus' frequent on-air foils, and was involved in the now-infamous "nappy-headed hos" exchange that left both without jobs. He provided much of the program's dicier content, a great deal of it while doing over-the-top impressions of the late Cardinal John O'Connor and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin.

Imus, in an oft-repeated schtick, would deride McGuirk as a "bald-headed stooge" when the material veered into dangerous territory. McGuirk also handled the booking of Imus' guests, a group which ran the gamut from presidential candidates to mainstream media pundits.

Mateo declined to provide any further details about the McGuirk situation. McGuirk was noticeably absent this week when other Imus contributors, including newsman Charles McCord and sportscaster Chris Carlin, were on the air with the WFAN replacement team of Mike Francesa and Chris "Mad Dog" Russo. Another Imus regular, comedian Rob Bartlett, appeared Friday on the Opie and Anthony morning show. But McGuirk has made no public comments about the controversy since the Imus firing.

CBS Radio had yet to decide on a permanent replacement for Imus on the New York station, Mateo said. Francesa and Russo were slated to do one more week of mornings in place of Imus, whose show was syndicated on 60 other stations nationally. WFAN was the flagship station for the Imus show.

It was McGuirk who first used the term "hos" while discussing the NCAA women's championship game between Rutgers and Tennessee. Imus described the Rutgers team, which includes eight black women, as tattooed "rough girls" during the April 4 broadcast.

"Some hardcore hos," replied McGuirk.

"That's some nappy-headed hos there, I'm going to tell you that," Imus said during the 10-second exchange that ignited a national debate over racist and misogynistic language and lyrics.

Imus was expected to meet with CBS Radio officials to settle the remainder of his recently signed five-year, multimillion-dollar contract. McGuirk's contract status was unknown; he had joined the radio station in 1984 when it was WNBC.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 10:52 AM

In the final analysis, I think I've come to the conclusion that Imus did more favorable things than he did bad things.

             He was abrasive and insulting, but he kept the attention of an audience who normally would pay little attention to what was going on in the world, or the personalities involved.

             I really don't blame Gwen Ifil for reacting the way she did, and given the way Imus insulted her, I think she was totally justified. But Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were only out to use the incident to toot their own horns.

             I don't see Sharpton and Jackson out apologizing for the ridiculous things they said about the Duke La Cross players.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 01:31 PM

". . . and Don Ho was not even his real name. That's just what Don Imus called him. . . ."

(Remark made on the NPR news comedy quiz, "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me," Sat., Apr. 21, 2007.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:30 PM

You beat me to the punch on that one---what a great line that was and what a clever show that is. (Wait Wait etc;)   The line after--if you recall--- had to do with the fact that Don Ho had some 12 kids (or so) 20 grand children (or so) and 2 great grandchildren which as one of the panelists said "...with all the diapers and sleeping going on lots of nappy little Hos."


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 07:43 PM

Yeah, Bill. One of my favorite shows. I try never to miss it. A really quick-witted bunch, and sometimes they leave me snickering for days.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 09:38 AM

"(Remark made on the NPR news comedy quiz, "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me," Sat., Apr. 21, 2007."


          It is, in fact, a great show, and very entertaining, but Imus was on 5 days a week, 4 hours a day, and appealed to a much broader audience.

          The point being, if you're going to change anybody's mind you have to get their attention first.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 01:03 PM

True, indeed. But there are various kinds of attention. At a party, for example, one can get a fair amount of attention by being a witty and knowledgeable conversationalist, but the guy who will get most of the attention will be the one who jumps up on the table and pisses in the punchbowl.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 01:10 PM

Don: Oh so well put.    By the way---another great line on that editions of WWDTM was the honor to Larry King"...Fifty years since he threw out the first softball""

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 10:22 PM

"(Remark made on the NPR news comedy quiz, "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me," Sat., Apr. 21, 2007."

Don Ho died this week and despite his age he had 2 babies at home.
Considering they are still in diapers you have to admit he had nappy bottomed Ho's.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 10:28 PM

Don - Sounds like you go to some pretty wild parties ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 10:42 PM

What is accomplished when the parody performers or the cartoonists are fired or killed while the ills they made fun of, go on unscathed?

kill the messenger, never mind the diaster.

"we" need comedy in all its forms to have the national or international discussions. We don't need to punish or kill the comics.

Bill Mahre was fired too. I'm glad he came back.
Of course when I tried to tella BIll Mahre joke I got in trouble too.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:08 AM

Bill M. made the mistake of telling the truth. He said that the people who flew those planes into the towers were not cowards as they have been called.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:10 AM

Apparently he wasn't a coward either ... !

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

"but the guy who will get most of the attention will be the one who jumps up on the table and pisses in the punchbowl."


               Nothing wrong with that, as long as it improves the punch.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:25 PM

they say sacred mushrooms transfer their punch through urine, so why not punch up the punch.


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
cartoon

Fat man with tee shirt that says Big Media says to a little guy labled joe public,,, "Can I say one more thing about Imus?"
little guy says "shut up"

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 04:33 PM

I think the cartoon got it backwards. It was "Big Media" who told Imus to shut up, at least for the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:51 AM

Wednesday, May 02, 2007
Imus' contract allowed 'controversial' program

We have some breaking news tonight about Don Imus that is bound to get some attention. The stakes are enormous: $40 million.

Some background: Today's news cycle has already reported Don Imus has retained well-known attorney Martin Garbus in anticipation of a wrongful termination lawsuit against CBS. You'll recall after a week-long storm CBS fired Imus after his controversial remarks about the Rutgers women's baskeball team.

Now our news: CNN Senior Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin has obtained PART of Don Imus' contract with CBS Radio, including the clause that is at the heart of Imus' case. Toobin suggests it is a very unusual contract provision that may force CBS to pay off the $40 million remaining on Imus' contract.

"Company [CBS Radio] acknowledges its familiarity with the program Conducted by Artist [Imus] on the station [WFAN] prior to company's ownership thereof and it, and its familiarity with the reviews and comments, both favorable and unfavorable concerning Artist and his material by critics, reviewers and writers of the various media both in New York and nationally. Company acknowledges that Artist's services to be rendered hereunder are of a unique, extraordinary, irreverent, intellectual, topical, controversial and personal character and that programs of the same general type and nature containing these components are desired by Company and are consistent with Company rules and policies."

Tonight, we'll have Jeff Toobin and much more about what this means about Imus, CBS and what big media companies are actually expecting, if not encouraging, from some of their talent. CBS had no comment on this story.


-- By David Doss, "360" Executive Producer
Posted By CNN: 8:55 PM ET

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:00 PM

If Imus wins, I wonder if CBS will have to sell out to a major defense contractor to stay viable, like NBC did?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:27 PM

CBS : brought to you by Halliburton "We know who we're working for - but you won't"


a subsidiary of Kellog Brown & Root

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:33 PM

I hope he wins. If they hired him to do a job, knowing full
well how he does the job, they ought not to fire him for
doing said job.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 May 07 - 04:06 AM

He knew full well that the job expected him to "push the envelope" in being outrageous. And that there is a limit. And that there are consequences for crossing the limit. He also knew that it paid rather well. So he was willing to take on the risk. He lost. He should take the millions he's already "earned" and cry all the way to the bank. And stop whining.

CBS may well be culpable--since they knew what they were hiring him to do. But that does not let Imus off the hook.

My sympathy-- for them both--is limited.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:19 AM

$120 million was the figure cited in the news today in NYC. Surely, the injury to Mr. Imus's livelihood is worth more! And, yes, the offending words could came been deleted before boradcasting which makes a case for the broadcasting companies being contributors to the offense.

I do hope that Imus receives $1 in comphensation and an apology from the broadcasting companies. They owe him that much consideration.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, adrift in NYC

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:23 AM

I think he needs to pursue the case in the name of freedom of expression.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:25 AM

His contract guarantees him $40 million. If he sues he will get a portion of it but probably not the whole thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:25 AM

A point came out today that I feel makes CBS and MSNBC very responsible for this.

The Imus show was on a seven second delay. There were people monitoring the broadcast and they were responsible for what went out over the air. IF they felt the comments were wrong, they could have "bleeped" it out.   Instead, they allowed the show THAT THEY SUPPORTED to continue.

I hope Imus takes them to the cleaners and gets the $40 million that he is owed by his contract.   While his words were disgusting, business is business. His employers knew what his program was about and they encouraged him by giving him a contract. It is their duty to honor it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 07 - 11:32 AM

And now right and wrong, if there even ever were such things, are no longer at issue--it's simply a matter of money. How long will it take Al Sharpton to file a lawsuit on behalf of the basketball team?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 May 07 - 11:51 AM

If Sharpton sues on behalf of the basketall team, is anybody taking any bets on who will end up with the money?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 May 07 - 12:12 PM

What possible grounds could the basketball team make to get money out of this?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 May 07 - 08:47 AM

Defamation of character, I suppose, or slander. They could mount a suit and get CBS to settle out of court. If they did, of course, Al Sharpton would probably be there with his hand out.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 07 - 09:23 AM

I like Judy who was on last Mon and Tue. I think she is related to Barry Goldwater

The Cindy Shehan phone interview was great.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Dickey
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:07 AM

I saw the replacement on the show once. She didn't impress me enough to remember her name. The show as just a bunch of irreverant sarcastic mediocre junk. But then so was Imus. It seems to me that he just tried to make fun of anything about politics and he went too far.

But then that is just my personal opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:08 AM

Imus is suing. The seven second delay and the fact that his contract stated that they had five days to act on his breaking the contract if that's how they interpreted his comments. Hope he wins.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:09 AM

There were some mentions of "personal losses" as a result of being thrown in the spotlight. The team will sue someone. SIGH!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:09 AM

or more likely everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:16 AM

Maybe they enjoyed their fifteen minutes of fame on the world stage and will want to keep it going.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:33 AM

saw the replacement on the show once. She didn't impress me enough to remember her name. The show as just a bunch of irreverant sarcastic mediocre junk. But then so was Imus.
Dickey,

exactly. but the guests were not the same ol war mongers.

I don't know her name either. Ummm its on the tip of my tongue, isn't that odd. IT started with D? or J? hmmm

Daryl Van Horne!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:43 AM

Imus is one of a kind. That's why he was able to draw such a large audience.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 May 07 - 10:06 AM

And who watches the watchers?

Sharpton accused of 'bigotry' after remark on faith
POSTED: 9:25 a.m. EDT, May 9, 2007

Story Highlights• Sharpton says he was referring to atheist author, not Romney, in remark
• Reverend: Real believers in God will beat the "one Mormon" running for president
• Romney spokesman says "bigotry" toward any religion is unacceptable
• Mormons "don't believe in God the way I do," Sharpton says in own defense

Adjust font size:
BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- The Rev. Al Sharpton, who recently urged that radio host Don Imus be fired for making a racially insensitive remark, said in a debate that "those who really believe in God will defeat" Republican Mitt Romney for the White House.

But Sharpton denied he was questioning the Mormon's own belief in God.

Rather, the New York Democrat said he was contrasting himself with Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author he was debating at the time.

"As for the one Mormon running for office, those who really believe in God will defeat him anyways, so don't worry about that; that's a temporary situation," Sharpton said Monday during a debate with Hitchens at the New York Public Library's Beaux-Arts headquarters.

The comment was first reported Tuesday in a blog on The New York Times' Web site.

The Romney campaign, which has been wary of campaign trail criticism of Romney's faith, jumped on the Sharpton comment. If elected, Romney would be the first Mormon to serve as president.

"It is terribly disheartening and disappointing to hear Reverend Sharpton offer such appalling comments about a fellow American's faith," said Romney spokesman Kevin Madden. "America is a nation of many faiths and common values, and bigotry toward anyone because of their beliefs is unacceptable."

Romney chimed in himself Monday during an appearance on the Fox News program "Hannity and Colmes."

"I think there are differences between different faiths in this country. And there will be battles between different religions," Romney said. "That's a great thing about this country. We don't decide who's going to be in office based on what church they go to."

In a tape of the debate, Sharpton can be heard defending the role of religion in the civil rights movement and shunning any suggestion that there wasn't a religious underpinning to the efforts of its leader, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Then Sharpton spoke of Romney, although a tape reviewed by The Associated Press does not reveal why.

In a later interview with the AP, Sharpton denied questioning Romney's belief in God and suggested the Romney camp was trying to stir up a controversy because of their political differences.

"What I said was that we would defeat him, meaning as a Republican," Sharpton said. "A Mormon, by definition, believes in God. They don't believe in God the way I do, but by definition, they believe in God."

He said he was contrasting himself and other believers with Hitchens, who is the author of a new book, "God Is Not Great."

Last month, Sharpton led the calls for Imus' ouster last month after the talk show host referred to members of the Rutgers University women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos."

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 May 07 - 12:48 PM

I think Sharpton does believe in a different God--one that excuses his hatemongering--

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 09 May 07 - 04:47 PM

Lets have a sing off between the Mormon Tubercular Choir and Sharpton's Gospel Goons for God.

Let them all sing at the same time while Al tries to outshout Rush and Mitt.

Whoever can be heard wins.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Dickey
Date: 10 May 07 - 10:14 AM

"...We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing shit, that's trying to get a nigga for his money. These are two separate things. First of all, we ain't no old-ass white men that sit up on MSNBC going hard on black girls. We are rappers that have these songs coming from our minds and our souls that are relevant to what we feel. I will not let them mutha fukas say we in the same league as him... "

http://www.hollywood.com/news/Snoop_Dogg_Rappers_Hos_Are_Different/3679198

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 07 - 11:13 AM

Thanks for that little ray of sunshine, Dicky--it makes my day;-)