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BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR
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Subject: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:04 AM The previous segment of this thread can be found over here. This is part Four. Bush continues to make his case for preventive intervention based on fears of a nuclear program in Iraq. Bobert has been nominated President of the US and has named his cabinet in readiness for the day the nomination should be taken seriously. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:51 AM Well, I just heard on Pacifica that the New York Times has rescended the parts of yesterday's article implicating Iraq as having nuclear weapons or close to having them. But once a lie is unleashed told it's hard to get it back in the cage> Speakin' of lies half truths and twisting of minds, ahh, one day when this evil administration is long gone, this week will be known a "Liar's Week" and be taught in the public schools and there will be liar's contests and folks will just be able to get their outrageous lies out of 'em so they can go about being truthful the rest of the year. Kinda like April Fools but for an entire week. Yeah, ol' Bobert would like to know just how much of the working classes tax dough is going into this massive *p.R* campaine to whip up the masses. I reckon right around 2000 new schools & 150 hospitals but I might be on the low side. Now, here's what I would encourage everyone to do. 1. I know it's a pain, but one more emial to your two Senators and your Representative. You can do it by going to usgovt.com. 2. While you're at usgovt.com get a mailing address for these folks and drop them a letter. 3. Talk to at least one person who you know who you think might fall for Junior and Co.'s lies. 4. Send a letter to the Editor of your local newspaper. 5. Go to democracynow.com and keep up with planned protests that you might be able to participate in. Might of fact, bookmark that site. 6. For those who perform, take a moment during your performance, if you feel you can, to talk about peaceful means to solve problems. 7. For those of Faith, pray. 8. Think about the possibilities of a national boycott of____________________ Corporation that is supportive of the Bush regime. There are lots of ways to fight for peace. 9. _________________________________ 10._________________________________ Lastly, Bush hasn't won his little PR war yet so we still have time to stop this war. "You can bomb the world to pieces... But you can't bomb the worlf to peace..." hip-hop artist Michael Frontea Peace Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:55 AM Amos: Sorry but in this administration the Secretary of State is the highest cabinet position and not something just to be trumped like Junior does everyday to Powell. And you're the right man for the job. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 11:04 AM I serve where called, Sir. I am grateful for your kind remarks. :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:20 PM Department of Peace? Alri-iiight, I get a whole new cabinet slot! Now there's a subject where the US doesn't throw it's weight around enough. First stop, Gaza Strip... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:51 PM Just as long as it doesn't become a 1984 style Ministry of Peace, Nicole.... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:58 PM Now, Sir Bobert, what with those orders for funny-looking aluminium tubes and the alleged testimony of expatriates from Iraqs nuclear brain trust....what do we do if, in fact, Saddam is as psycho as he is being painted and is in fact rushing the heavy-water production plant into production or importing weapons-grade plutonium over the mountains? Ya got a Plan B? Mind you I am not disagreeing with your campaign so far, but, ya know, I am trying to see all the cards on all the tables, so to speak... Seems wise, given the perplexities of the post... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:59 PM I clicked on that link to part three, to check where the last posts had taken it, and up comes a message saying "You are not authorized to access this site," and lots of other code stuff.
Headline in the paper today: "Bush gives UN last chance". Now that to me has strong overtones of whatshisname, with his "My patience is exhausted..."
Since the man apparently claims to see Churchill as a role model, as does Saddam Hussein, it is said, maybe "to jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war" might be a good quote for them both to ponder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 01:06 PM My apologies to one and all; there was an error in the link. The correct links to the earlier part of this thread are: Part Three: Bushwah and Bush War Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 01:14 PM Bobert's review of Junior and Co.'s PR performancer on yesterday's talking head shows: D- Truth: Dick Cheney saying, "we're trying to build support with the American people." Well, the implication must be that if it needs to be built then there isn't sufficient support. Okay, Dick, you get a point for that true statement. Truth ot Lie "The admiinistrations officials suggested that Bush would accept a last chance effort by the United Nations to deploy weapons inspectors..." (Washingotn Post of today) Truth ot Lie: Condolleezza Rice's satement, "Nobody's going to negoitiate anything with this regime." *Note: At least one of the two above statements has to be a lie because there is a contridiction. Lie: Condoleezza's statement, "I don't think anyone wants to wait for the 100% surity that Hussein has a weapon of mass detruction that can reach the United States." Well, Ms. Rice , I think there are millions of folks who disagree with you. But, considering the number of innocent folks that Texas has executed, I am fully aware that some folks in Texas don't need a whole bunch of proff about anything. Truth ot Lie: Colin Powell statement, "This is time to to deal with a problem that has been there for years..." Well, Danged Colin, if it's been here for years, why this massave PR to get this war going so quickly. And why... just before the elections... Nah, I'm changing my grade to an "F". When ya' can't even get the stories straught it generally means that someone is lieing thru their teeth. In this case, quite a few folks. Nope, they didn't win me over yesterday. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 01:34 PM Amos: PLan B is not plan B at all but Plan A. This is where you and Nicole are going to be real busy. As I have stated before, we're going to call for an "Emergency Middle East Peace Summit" and we're gonna have to sell it. Nicole is going to come up with a PR program aimed at the public opinions of the various Middle Eastern Nations. We'll be usinf every type of media to build support for peaceful coexhistance. Now, I know this is gonna be tough but we're going to make this summit to be the summit "to be at". Yep, Saddam, Arafat, Sharon, evreyone. All inclusive. Now that we have softened up folks with a massave PR campaine, it will not be fashionable to well, not be there. You'rte gonna have to work those phones and be your sweet charming self and get these leaders to feel that they are indeed going to go down in history as part of "the Event" that broke the cycle. The event that carried mankind to the next step... And the Summit will last as long as it has to. No one gets out until the job is complete. And when it is complete, everyone is going to come out of there feeeling all warm and fuzzy. And our Dept. Of Peace will put up the pictures of these people and they will be made out to be the greatest men and women of the times. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, while everyone is feeling all good, boundaries will open up and people will be more able to visit with one another. You know, Saddam, will invite US college students and just about anyone else over who will tell him what a great guy he is for having the courage to participate. And as the Middle East becomes more inclusive and fluid, we will sneak a few good intellegence folk in who look like tourist, you know, with their sunglasses, K-Mart clothes, and desposable cameras and next thing ya' know, we'll really have intellegence based on fatcs rather than dartborads. Yep, that's the Plan and it'll work to the "T". Heck, it will work so well there, that we'll use it as a blueprint in other areas of the world. And as it starts to develop, we'll find we don't need as many WMD ourselves and can put our dough into industroes that promote peace, and alternative energy sources and food and, well... things that hepl folks rather than things that hurt people... So get Nicole on the phone and get to work... And if ya' need anything from me, I'm here... Might want to touch base with Dougie, too... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 01:46 PM LOL!!! I guess you passed your first crisis, there, buddy!! Man-with-a-Plan!! Let's roll!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 09 Sep 02 - 03:28 PM Strange you would use that phrase, Amos. I would have thought you would have propose that the folks on the plane where that phrase was used, before crashing into that Pennsylvania field, would have been better served if they had only invited the terrorists to sit down and have a chat about the sitution. Reason together, as Bobert suggests. Using the tactics Bobert outlines above (I do agree it's LOL by the way), I'm sure the terrorists would have meekly taken their seats, and that plane would still be in service, and all of those folks who got killed, would be alive today! Right? *BG* DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 09 Sep 02 - 03:31 PM With all due respect, Mr. Prez, I disagree. The credibility of the US in the region is shot, and I think we need to prove to them we are fully engaged and committed before yet another summit will accomplish anything. The PR campaign will help, but I think we need to focus on a single hot-spot issue and resolve it first -- or rather, be the leadership that achieves an international solution. It doesn't need to be a complete solution, either. Just stabalizing the standoff between Israel and Palestine back to glares and dirty gestures instead of bombs would be an enormous success. A lasting solution can be part of the Summit. Or maybe we can shift some of those US troops around to less religiously-sensitive areas. But if the US called for a Summit tomorrow, everyone would assume that the US was making a bid to seize more control over the energy reserves in the area, or oust some leader, or some other selfish motive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 03:52 PM Doug, I believe we could detect a few differences between a highly tense international negotiating situation, as present, and the situation you describe. Sometimes the use of intelligent statesmanship requires as much courage as tackling an armed psycho, it just takes a lot longer, as a rule. The difference is whether the guy on the other end can be pinned down into dialogue or whether he is already in attack mode. Hussein's scramble for nukes sounds like a fast move toward attack mode, if it is as described by recent claims. But he is also backpedaling. Bobert's proposal is based on the window of opportunity still present before he draws that weapon. They are not the same situation. Blair is offering to report on Iraq's armamentum with current Intel reports. I'll be interested to see what he comes up with. The evidence presented to date is sketchy at best, although the unspecified order for specialized aluminum tubes used in processing radioactives is interesting and might be substantive. Why can't these guys spill the dope on which they are basing their alarums? Sigh.... A
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 09 Sep 02 - 04:14 PM You know, if I were Saddam, and the "crazed despotic leader" of the US were threatening to destroy me and overthrow my government, you bet like hell I'd be scrambling to come up with anything I could use to either retaliate or use as a deterrent. A well-placed nuclear device inside the US would fit that bill pretty well. On the other hand, given that geologists estimate that the oil reserves will be gone in about 40 years, Iraq would be smart to be actively pursuing alternate energy sources. I think nuclear is a particularly bad choice... as well as a stupid, politically provocative one... but it's quite possible that Iraq could be interested in nuclear energy, not just nuclear weapons. I'm with you, Amos, spill the beans on the proof or shut up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Sep 02 - 04:29 PM I know for some people the only thinbk less credible than quoting the Guadian is quoting Noam Chomsky, and this is from Chomsky writing in today's Guardian(though in fact it's reprinted from the New York Times). But it seems a pretty good point he is making:
Washington's present justifications to attack Iraq have far less credibility than when President Bush Sr was welcoming Saddam as an ally and a trading partner after he had committed his worst brutalities - as in Halabja, where Iraq attacked Kurds with poison gas in 1988. At the time, the murderer Saddam was more dangerous than he is today.
(And here is a link to Chomsky's article "Drain the swamp and there will be no more mosquitoes") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 04:44 PM McGrath: THanks for reminding me of Chomsky. He makes a great deal of sense. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 09 Sep 02 - 05:05 PM Ah ha! We already have dissension in the ranks of the NEW administration! Bobert, you got to keep a tight rein on Nicole seems like! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 05:29 PM Now, DougR -- no leaking our internal Administration skeletons, ya know -- it's not good teammanship!! LOL!! Besides, I can't reach the erase button on the tape system from here!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:31 PM What?! Thar'll be no yes-women in this administration! You get my opinion whether you ask for it or not! ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:36 PM Uhoh!! DougR, I think we need to send you out for a while, maybe on a media relations tour, or a binker somewhere...you know, just for security? LOL A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:56 PM Okay, Nicole. Here's my thinking but I, unlike to other Prez, have an open mind. Yes, the Isreali/Palestinian conflict is really at the heart of the problems not only in the Middle East but also stretching into Asia with those of Islamic Faith are mad at the US for backing Isreal. This problem will have to be worked out in a sidebar and off to the side and we will have to look at the possibilities that include demilitarized zones and internation UN peacekeeping forces un that region. It is also going to have to encompass the basic framework of the Suadi Proposal of Land for Peace, a Palestian sovern state, an acceptance of Isreal's Right to Exist and all this will come about similtaniuosly without one party having to do this before the other does that. And Amos is going to have to play hardball on that part of the agreement. Yes, we do have some cards which can be played should we need them but I have faith in Amos so I don't think those will have to be played. But if they do, like Brucs Springsteen says, "Sooner or later, it all comes down to money." We have that on our side. Now, with the Isreali/Palestinian conflict resolved, the other members of the summit will lossen up and feel a little watm and fuzzy and then we can get a number of issues resolved, including Iraq's fight to own their own resources. The reason I want everyone involved from the beginning is that the fundamental change in the way we're going do business is that we're going to walk the extra mile to be inclusive, make everyone feel like they are equally part of the great event that changes the way human go about solving problems. But, hey, Nicole. I'm all ears. Like ol' Bobert has said before, "The mind is like a parachute. It's useless if it ain't open..." Yo, Doug! Good work, my friend! See, you brought up a pount that alot of folks that we will win over now think. I thought Amos did a nice job with his spin, so there's nothing I can add that would improve his response. But keep firing. We need ya', brother! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:57 PM Okay, Nicole. Here's my thinking but I, unlike to other Prez, have an open mind. Yes, the Isreali/Palestinian conflict is really at the heart of the problems not only in the Middle East but also stretching into Asia with those of Islamic Faith are mad at the US for backing Isreal. This problem will have to be worked out in a sidebar and off to the side and we will have to look at the possibilities that include demilitarized zones and internation UN peacekeeping forces un that region. It is also going to have to encompass the basic framework of the Suadi Proposal of Land for Peace, a Palestian sovern state, an acceptance of Isreal's Right to Exist and all this will come about similtaniuosly without one party having to do this before the other does that. And Amos is going to have to play hardball on that part of the agreement. Yes, we do have some cards which can be played should we need them but I have faith in Amos so I don't think those will have to be played. But if they do, like Brucs Springsteen says, "Sooner or later, it all comes down to money." We have that on our side. Now, with the Isreali/Palestinian conflict resolved, the other members of the summit will lossen up and feel a little watm and fuzzy and then we can get a number of issues resolved, including Iraq's fight to own their own resources. The reason I want everyone involved from the beginning is that the fundamental change in the way we're going do business is that we're going to walk the extra mile to be inclusive, make everyone feel like they are equally part of the great event that changes the way human go about solving problems. But, hey, Nicole. I'm all ears. Like ol' Bobert has said before, "The mind is like a parachute. It's useless if it ain't open..." Yo, Doug! Good work, my friend! See, you brought up a pount that alot of folks that we will win over now think. I thought Amos did a nice job with his spin, so there's nothing I can add that would improve his response. But keep firing. We need ya', brother! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 06:59 PM Danged, the Prez work makes your trigger finger a little happy. Hey, that's a *joke*... At least in out administration. Not too sure about Junior's. Man, gotta lay off the caffiene... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 07:02 PM (It's funny. I haven't been State for a coupla days now and I am already nervous as a kitten on a stove. I pity the guys who do this in the real world!! I dunno if I could deal with the stress! LOL!) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: gnu Date: 09 Sep 02 - 07:38 PM No sweat lads. Jean, Supreme Canuck Commander of all Politically Incorrect has decreed that this will be settled by the UN. No problem. Rest easy..... news of the attack at eleven.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 09 Sep 02 - 08:07 PM I'm with you on the basic peace plan structure. It's not really different from Zinni's or any number of experts that have gone over, checked out the situation, made proposals, and then gone home with their tail tucked between their legs because one side or the other (usually Israel) wants it their way first and the ambassador had no authority to make any of it happen. I've got $3 billion a year in military aid to Israel that says they'll accept UN peacekeepers instead of losing a sizable chunk of their military budget and their favorite arms dealer. And we gotta have 'em -- there's no way Israel and Palestine can settle this themselves, there's just too much bad blood and there's gotta be a referee to keep the chief combatants apart until they settle down. But I think that the countries in the region could help out a lot by offering resettlement land and citizenship to the Palestinian refugees. The Palestinians aren't going to get all their land in Israel back; it's just not feasible. Compensation for lost lands for those who accept by the availability of land elsewhere could help. But none of the surrounding countries want a population of Palestinians because any time one of them lets a few Palestinians in, Israel lobs missiles at them. They all have to adopt an integration policy, or none at all. Nonetheless, I don't think the other countries will feel warm and fuzzy until some results happen. Too many peace plans for the region have fizzled and failed; they won't believe it until THIS one is different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 02 - 08:32 PM "Department of the Interior"! I accept with pleasure, sir. The main problems, as I see them:
* Our water, in lakes, rivers and irrigation ponds
Gracious. That's enough problems for the moment. Two essentials needed for solutions: * Education * The best minds (and hearts) around Back to the town meeting, from the village to the halls of Congress. Position papers, school children's involvement, building and sustaining enthusiasm and energy will be very large parts of the NEW GIVE PEACE A CHANCE administration. Back to you, Mister Prez.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: kendall Date: 09 Sep 02 - 08:37 PM Doug, I can tell you what WOULD have prevented the takeover. If the Nixon administration hadn't canned the Sky Marshals, THEY would have stopped the terrorists. How much of the tax payers money did they save by dumping the Sky Marshals? How much did the resulting horror cost? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 08:58 PM Well, danged, Ebbie. I knew I had made the right choice. You *are* up to the task at hand. This foresting debate has a middle ground somewhere. Just be sure that when you invite the folks from the timber industry to have at exactly the same number of environmentalists. And when Ya get 'em together, lock the door behind you and tell 'em that the joint is surrounded by the National Guard (even though we know it ain't, wink, wink) and then tell 'em that no one leaves until everyone feels all warm and fuzzy. Then, after they have come up with a sensible policy get 'em to hug each other, and exchange phone numbers and promise to get together over some BBQ and cold beer. No, tell 'em that when they finish, there's gonna be a big ol' fashoion BBQ with a few kegs of beer. Yaeh, that'll keep 'em workin'.... Hey, ol' Prez. been so busy that he forgot the danged Dept of Energy. Danged! How could this happen. Well, I'll have to take the blame. I kinda like Big Mick, myself. Yeah, I know he gets a bit roudy, but, heck so do I. And it's take someone like Mick to take on these oilmen who think the only way to generate energy is burning stiff up. Hey, reminds me of Junior. He's either blowin' duff up or burnin' stuff up. Think tghe ols boy has some kind of pyrofixation. Heck, I don't know. I ain't no head doc... Amos: You're doing fine. If ya' get nervous, just breath into the paper bag for a minute and you'll be fine... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 09 Sep 02 - 09:10 PM Well, Kendall, there were several administrations between Nixon's and the current one. Had they thought Sky Marshalls were necessary, they could have reinstated them. For the first time I'm beginning to believe you folks might succeed where so many have failed in the middle east! You're gonna talk 'em to death! *G* DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:08 PM Well, Sallaamaleikum to you too, Doug R -- if you ask, I'll bet you'd find out it is the preferred path to Beyond, much better than being separated from your current mortal illusion by a pound and a half of Lockheed Martin's very best! :>) Wonder if we couldn't get all our ex-colonist powers -- the Portuguese, Spanish, Germans, French and British -- to stand up and 'fess their wrong doing, with a call for a resurrection of the spirit of self-rule throughout the lands, after we get the nukes, biochemicals and guns outta the way? It might clean up a lot of thehistorical melo-dramatization. Back burner for now, but it might be a helluva PR job, especially if we can get the City of the Vatican to chime in with a few mea culpae!! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:16 PM DougR, they also serve who only stand - and listen? :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:38 PM Doug: You goy it, pal, We're gonna talk, talk and talk some more. Cheaper than bombs and a lot less counter-productive. Not to mention, anti-human and down right evil. Now, Doug. I was thinkin' that after we get things sorted out and folks feeling real warm and fuzzy that we're gonna have to find a position for you and I think I've come up with the perfect one. Secretary of the Arts. Yeah, the arts are a symbol of civilization. They say alot about mankind's level of peacefullness. Since you have a backgtound in the arts, I am thinking that with all the dough we're gonna save by reducing our WMD's, then why not spend a few bucks on incorporating the aets into every day life. Hey, I'm liking the heck out of it. I can see big ol' Caulder type mobiles in every town. And murals. Things that say, "Hey, there's more to our realities than guns and bigger guns..." Yep, that's it Doug. Secretaru of the Arts. Sounds real civilized to me. Especially compared to beating war drums... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Hrothgar Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:16 AM Best thing to do with Doug is to put him in gaol in Cuba - then you won't have to bring him to trial. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 09:20 AM Awright, no snipin' at the Administration!! Doug's doing his job just fine! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 11:06 AM On a more serious note, it is beginning to look like at least the Bush-Blair axis will try to use the United Nations as their vehicle for dealing with Saddam. Iraq's Minister of Trade is asserting all they want to do is go back to business as it was before the Kuwait invasion -- a sensible position, which Saddam should echo loudly and act on. Otherwise, he's gonna start spewing off at the mouth about mothers of battles and folks are gonna get awful tahred of him, either within Iraq or without. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 10 Sep 02 - 12:01 PM Well, Amos, he might have a point. I never have been to Cuba, and L.H. thinks it's a mighty nice place to visit. :>) "Secretary for the Arts." It has a ring to it, no doubt about it. I could put a 2000 pound bomb, or a Bradley vehicle on display in every town square in America! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 12:15 PM I hope and pray that this will occur, Amos, but I have my doubts. I think Bush is Hell bent on attacking Iraq and is just posturing and trying to sway world opinion. During the next two days the American people, as well as folks considered to be potential allies, will be bombarded by a PR campiagn that has been carefully crafted to market an invasion. I think we should all be very mindful of just how much martketing will be mixed into the next two days. Teams of marketers, pollsters and pscyhologists have been at this for some time now. The "hot button" words have been identified. We're hearing a few allready. How many folks have you heard using the word "crawfishing" in the last week? Yep, the marketers have found this word to illicit some response and so we've been fed a staedy diet of crawfish. Don't be surprised to hear this word used even in Junior's address to the UN. Now there will be other hot button words which will be carefully introduced in the next two days as a foundation of the marketing an attack on Iraq and for those who may be on the fence or are easily sold, I'd just not watch any TV for the next two days... Yeah, boycott the television media for two day, if you will. Again, Amos, I don not share your optimism. I's sniffin' part of the marketing stategy. Nothin' more... Oh yeah, for those interested in the marketing that Junior is up to, check out www.prwatch.org Peace Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 12:21 PM ..with a little brass plaque on each one entitling it "Never Again...", eh, Doug? Or perhaps "Machines of Death from Times of Madness". Or "Failed Technologies On Display". Klausewitz asserts the purpose of war, and all its devices, is to bring about a more amenable frame of mind on the part of the enemy. Madison Avenue has been doing that for a century now, and has never shot anyone, that they have owned up to. They may have caused a number of deaths from such side effects as cholesterol, emphysema and so on, but at least they managed the mindset of their target populations. So I think we're missing a bet. In the same sweep that we put all the IRS agents to work auditing waste in the Federal Gummint, we can overhaul the FCC and put all those artists, pollsters, bright campaign dreamers and persuasive models in short skirts to work selling the idea of lawful representative democracy and individual freedoms to the governments and populations of China, Iraq, Iran, etc. Once we get that rolling we can work out the core principles of economic sanity and pitch those as well. Then maybe a world-wide campaign on the equations of individual ethics... (Screen zooms in on a stunningly strong-looking, handsome man looking out over a wide, beautiful valley, river in distance, spring breeze gently blowing. Model: "I've learned it the hard way. Maybe you won't have to. WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND! Now I've straightened myself out and made ethics part of my thinking... and you know what? It works for the good stuff in life, too!" He smiles offstage left and holds out his hand, and a beautiful sloe-eyed brunette in a sunsuit comes trotting over, takes his hand, and leads him off down into the valley, staring meaningfully into his eyes. Voice-over: "Ethical choices really work!! Fade to blue.) Woddya think? Will it fly in Kabul? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:01 PM Want to know what I think, Mr. Prez? I'll tell you anyway. I don't think Bush is going to push for an attack on Iraq. I think he is appearing to in order to exert great pressure on Saddam to admit the weapons inspectors into Iraq to make unimpeded inspections. I think if he takes this approach, France, Italy, Germany, and many other countries will support it. Renewal of inspections will not work, though, unless there is an armed force available to enforce the resolution. The ball will then definitely be in Saddam's court. If he refuses to allow unimpeded inspections, then there will be an attack, and it will be approved by the U. N., and allied forces will join U. S. forces in the attack. Those are my thoughts on the president's speech at the U. N. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:05 PM Cut! That's a wrap! Nice work folks! Hey, Amos, you really are purdy darned good at this stuff. The Prez. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:34 PM "Want to know what I think, Mr. Prez? I'll tell you anyway. I don't think Bush is going to push for an attack on Iraq. I think he is appearing to in order to exert great pressure on Saddam to admit the weapons inspectors into Iraq to make unimpeded inspections. DougR" I sure hope you're right, DR. If you're NOT, would you agree that you may be misreading the situation?
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:37 PM DougR: Yeah, you may be right -- you'll recall Nicole and I were speculating on that very tactic a while back in these threads. And much as I hate to admit it, if he was bluffing his own entire nation as well as Mister Gas-Your-Own Hussein, he did a good job of bluffing, which obviously he will excuse under the exigencies of war. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:38 PM You are right, Doug. When Junior found, that through the internet that he was facing a groundswell of opposition, he regrouped and came up with Plan B. Plan B is a purdy danged good plan, I'll admit. Not nearly as good as our Mudcat's Administration mind you becasue it is still Hell bent on pushing folks around. But if this was a chess match, I'd have to say it was a good move. Will it work? I pray that it will but fear that it won't. Folks don't like being bullied. And I'm sure that what Junior is going to want is something that resembles an occupation, of sorts. Now occupations work when you're there for the right reasons. You know, like keeping order and assisting a battered country get back on it's feet, much like the Marshall Plan. But a bullying occupation only leaves resentments and then we're gonna have to deal with yet another generation of folks who resent us. It doesn't end the cycle, just perpetuates it. But being a positive thinker in general and a man of Faith I pray that should a weapon's inspection program short circuit Juniors thirst for blood, that we will have the wisdom to try some of Amos's idea over the next many years that we occupy Iraq. I'd like to see some of them used here as well. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: kendall Date: 10 Sep 02 - 01:56 PM Doug, I hope you are right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Sep 02 - 03:31 PM Now the thing to do is to see whether Bush sets about trying to extend any inspections in ways designed to try to stop Saddam agreeing to them.
An analogy which keeps coming to mind is the way the Great War started with some similar manoeuvres. To start with you had an atrocity, the assassination of the heir to the Austro-Hungarian Empire by a member of a group supported and dependent on the Serbian Government. Then you had a set of demands against Serbia aimed ostensibly at attacking its capacity to engage in terrorist attacks, but with the demands being ratcheted up with the intention of avoiding any settlement that didn't involve what nowadays would be called "change of regime", and did involve what was intended to be seen as national humiliation.
The basic thing to keep in mind is that no evidence whatsoever has been produced to suggest that Iraq had anything to do with September 11, or that there is any greater likelihood of that country unleashing a suicidal sneak attack than there was at the time that the USA was supporting Saddam, some time after his murderous attacks on his neighbours in Iran and his subjects in Halabja.
The only thing that has changed is that there are people in power in Washington who appear to be trying to exploit the terrible events of September 11th by using them to pry open a window of opportunity that will enable them to make a war. A war which will provide significant financial opportunities for the oil business. (And that last bit of cynicism is Doug's, but it makes sense.)
Well, maybe it is a bluff. These are dangerous games. They always used to say that one trouble about the cold war is that one side was playing chess, and the other was playing poker. What game do they play in Iraq's military circles? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 10 Sep 02 - 03:58 PM "Now the thing to do is to see whether Bush sets about trying to extend any inspections in ways designed to try to stop Saddam agreeing to them." Very valid point. Even if GW is bluffing -- which I doubt, but hope so! -- and even if he isn't going to deliberately provoke Saddam (which I also doubt), I still think he has unrealistic expectations. It's not feasible to expect Saddam to roll over and wiggle his paws in the air like a dog because we threaten to drop a few more bombs on Iraq than we already do now. I suspect that's all the Bush would be happy with, and it ain't gonna happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Sep 02 - 04:13 PM Now the great Ukrainian anarchist general Nestor Makhno had a way of sorting these things. One time he marched openly into the camp of an enemy, strode up to the enemy general, and shot him. And the enemy army changed sides on the spot, and joined Makhno.
Now I'm not recommending that exacly, but it beats having a war. I've been reading how Bush has said that if no one else is willing to join him, he'll go against Saddam on his own, and maybe that might be the best way. Bush personally, I mean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:01 PM Shades of Jimmy Stewart in High Noon!! "Awright, SA-damn!! I'm-a comin affer ya; it's you-an me, and we're gonna consort this issuance face to man once and for higher! If you're too danged temporous to make a move, then throw down your ballet-istic sidereal arms and step out whar Ah kin see ya!" Om...McGrath? I just don't think it's-a-gonna happen, podnuh!! :>)
Amos
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:02 PM We're thinking alike here, McGrath. Like I said earlier somewhere, Bush is just having to capitulate on the checklist. You know, going before Congress and the United Nations. And we have the internet to thank for shuffling enough information around that there has been the kind of pressure that put on the White House and Congress that is forcing them to have to backtrack. Good! No, make that very good! But I'm afraid that he will figure out a way to screw the thing up purposely to keep Saddam as the "boogie man". See, Junior needs a "boogie man" to keep the pre 9/11 agenda and concerns under lock and key. Like the Florida heist! Like the economy! Like a big old tax giveaway to the rich that didn't stimulate the economy at all, only made the rich richer! Like an energy policy written by 42 of his closest oil buddies! Like a perscription drug program for our parents and grandparents! Like a mimumum wage of $5.15 that only insures a peasant class! Yeah, Bush does not want to deal with any of these problems so he needs him a big, bad "boogie man". Chances are that the last one, Osoma, is long been dead since it is a little known fact that he was on a dialysis machine at the time of the 9/11 attacks and there are but only so many caves in Afganistan set up with dialysis machines. Plus, he made for a lousy "boogie man". I mean, he was pale from being sick, and skinny like sick folks are and them tubes hanging out of him for his medical treatments just didn't have the Rambo look to 'em. Now, Saddam. Well, he don't really look to "boogie manish" himself but Junior looked arounf the world and figured he's do. Sitting on top of all that oil didn't hurt Saddam's chances in the selection process either. So, bottom line, if Junior is twarted from his plans of a hot war in Iraq, he's got himself a problem. Like his daddy he's gonna have to turn to the domestic agends and we know how them Bush folk detest doing "home"work... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:11 PM For the record, Amos, I think it was Gary Cooper in High Noon, not Jimmy Stewart. Remember Grace Kelly? Or- suddenly I've gone blank- was it Martha Hyer? Beautiful blonde, as I remember. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:12 PM There is only one way for the inspections to avert a war and that is for there to be no limitations on the inspectors regarding what they want to inspect and where. Anything less, and we (the U.N. and the Allies) will be back where we were in 1998, and that just won't work. Tony Blair in a speech this morning laid out the plan I think they will follow, and it is along the lines of what has been suggested here. Amos, I did not intend to imply that this is my idea. I heard the idea expressed by the leader of a think tank (can't remember the name of the group0 and when he stated it, I said to myself that I thought it made sense to me. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:15 PM Ebbie: Sorry, I failed to address your question. I'm not sure I understand the question though. If I am not right, would I admit I was wrong about what? If the question is will I agree that I was wrong if Bush calls for an immediate invasion? If so, yes I will. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:18 PM Well, of course it was, Ebbie!! See, it's a new test we at State are using to sort out those who are on the ball. If you spot the error, you're eligible for the next test!! If you never heard of Jimmy Stewart OR Cooper, you're too young to be working!! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:46 PM Amos, Amos, Amos.... Are we gonna have to have that talk again? You know about the, ummmm... Well you know... Ahhhh, that agea nationdiscrimina thing that we talked about. Whew... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:55 PM Please to referring to "does US own moon" thread for interesting analysis of whole evil maniac Saddam problem and obvious solution we having ready for you now. Run he can't and hide he can't. Have him we will. The above are transmissions from a) Japanese instruction manual, and b) Yoda. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:26 PM Bobert, Godangit, it's not age-discrimination!! It's a functional capability index algorithm based on exposure to cultural patterns which uses a random-sample statistical metric as a baseline, don't you see??? LOL!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: kendall Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:36 PM It was Grace Kelly in High Noon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Don Firth Date: 10 Sep 02 - 09:38 PM I just got Linda Allen's occasional newsletter in my e-mail. In it, she includes the following quote for one's enlightenment and edification. I thought I would pass it along.
From WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE: Respectfully submitted, Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 02 - 09:47 PM Well quoted indeed! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 10 Sep 02 - 09:56 PM Amos, I suppose the Cabinet will be tested on an ongoing basis? (Ah, if that were only the case!) Would it be possible to 'fix' it? Some little symbol that only those in the know would recognize? I would hate to fail publicly. Heaven forbid that I should be accountable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 10 Sep 02 - 10:53 PM Thanks, Don. Some things just don't change. But others do. I'd like to think that the internet is a posutive force for change. I believe that because so much information has been brought to the forfront of the Iraq situation that a President has had to do an about face under pressure that surely has come from millions of folks emailing the White House and their Congresspeople. Yeah, Junior just about pulled the danged think off and ol' Willie is very much correct in his analysis and there might come a time when this same media is used to get the blood boiling. But at least for today, I feel like folks like you, and Amos, and McGrath, and Ebbie, and Peg, and Little Hawk, and Nicole, and Fionn, and others have done their part here on this battle front and turned back the first assault on humanity. I know that all of you were doing other things that led to other things that led to... Proud to serve the world with you folks. Bobert Awww, come on over here and get a big hug, Doug. You're part of the team, too... danged... Get's ol Bobert weepu eyed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 11 Sep 02 - 12:24 AM Yeah, the First Shrub is backpeddling today. He made some comment about Iraq being an international problem requiring an international solution, and he was going to tell the UN his idea to solve it, but the whole Un had to act. Did someone hit him with a clue bat this morning? I don't think his personal attitude has changed, but that's a mighty big statesman-like approach. He's still muttering about a regime change, but if he's going to be reasonable and polite, he just might accomplish something.
On a lighter note: |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:12 AM Vote Mahajan! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:20 AM From the same site: Lao-tzu on Arrogance When a country obtains great power, it becomes like the sea: all streams run downward into it. The more powerful it grows, the greater the need for humility. Humility means trusting the Tao, thus never needing to be defensive. A great nation is like a great man: When he makes a mistake, he realizes it. Having realized it, he admits it. Having admitted it, he corrects it. He considers those who point out his faults as his most benevolent teachers. He thinks of his enemy as the shadow that he himself casts. If a nation is centered in the Tao, if it nourishes its own people and doesn't meddle in the affairs of others, it will be a light to all nations in the world. Tao Te Ching Lao-tzu (abt.551-479 BCE) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Dave Bryant Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:03 AM What really bothers me is that vast intelligence vacuum - the one between Bush's ears ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:08 AM The NEw York Times today carries an article on Arab sentiment toward the U.S.. THere is a lot of understandable anger, frustration, and confusion described. But the worst part of the whole thing is the quote in which a frustrated Arab says that "all the talk about supporting democracy in Arab countries is baloney". Mother of all Gods, if we are not in the international arena to promulgate the democratic vision, why the hell are we over there? I know, I know -- oil and "strategic interests". But it's a piss-poor state of affairs when the really important thing about this country -- the vision that founded it -- gets submerged by a bunch of businessmen. Very grim. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:32 AM Superb words, as always, from Lao-Tzu. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:53 PM Why do you automatically assume the Arab quoted is correct Amos? I think the U.S. is in this for the long haul, and will not abandon Afghanstan until they have a stable government and the same would be true of Iraq, should we replace Saddam's regime. Sometimes I think the liberals on the forum are so attuned to blaming everything on "big business" (particularly the oil companies) and "bad government," they lose sight of the possibility that "we" really are the good guys. Ready ... aim ...fire! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:55 PM That quote Don Firth gave us is not Shakespeare, whoever it is.
Genuinely open and rigorous inspections, yes. But not conducted in a way that is intended to provoke. That's not a quibble.
And I'd really be grateful if some international organisation were to require the same level of inspection of all countries possessing or suspected of possessing weapons of mass destruction. Including especially the one I live in. And of course, the former Soviet Union, with all those rusting H-bombs.
And remember there is a man sitting in prison, in solitary confinement for year after year, called Mordecai Vanunu, for the crime of telling the world that Israel has nuclear weapons.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:06 PM Just what is a liberal, Doug? You throw this word around alot but I don't have a clue what is meant by it. But the way you use it, it must be something real bad. (Well, Bobert, at least ya' got Doug to quit calling you one. Don't that mean anything?) Oh, yeah, thanks fir not calling me a liberal anymore, Doug. (see, Bobert, now that wasn't so hard, was it?) But really, Doug, I'm not trying to be funny here. I'm serious. What is a liberal? Your "Gald-to-not-be-one" friend... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:45 PM Doug R: I did not say that the quote was true. What is true is that our PR is so badly mangled that it is perceived as though true by an unknown quantity of people of whom this speaker was one. This is pretty thin gruel considering the importanceof the core values we should, as a nation, represent. I am a liberal in the sense that I believe that the humanistic side of law is the senior side; that individual liberties are far more important than the convenience of business activity; that the best charity is in restoring productive value-producing employment to as many as possible; that one human voice may be right even when a thousand deny it; that the greatest destiny we can design for ourselves is to free our fellow man from oppression and provide a sane environment for human well being and the well being of other species. I also believe deeply in the historic importance of the Jeffersonian American experiment, and it pains me to see that being eroded by short-sighted Federalists. It has ever since Alexander Hamilton. That's my version of liberalism. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:09 PM On other fronts it is of great significance, I hope, that Arafat's Cabinet has just resigned in toto and a popular election has been scheduled for late January 03. Assuming the interim cabinet does not get the country blown away between now and then, there might even be hope for some rational progress to be made! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 11 Sep 02 - 07:47 PM Bobert: I did not include you in the group, remembering your sensitivity to the subject. Liberal is the opposite of conservative. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:17 PM But Doug .. what IS a conservative? (Ain't no HORSE voted it!)... :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Ebbie Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:33 PM It seems to me that a 'conservative' would make a good Amishman or a good (old-time) Roman Catholic: "Don't worry your head about it- We're the Authority- we'll tell you what to think and do." Would you agree, DougR? :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:50 PM Really, Doug, U think it is a fair question. Your side has well crafted a PR campaign lumping anyone who stands in the way of your agenda (*which to me is very liberal*) as this, ahhhh, well..."liberal". No, it isn't the opposite of conservative becuase I'm much more conservative than you, I've found. Yeah, I believe that the Bill of Rights is something that is important, if we are to be a free mation, and not sonething to be run thru the shredder... And I'm into conservation (conserve) of resources where your side is Hell bent on burning up as much of them as you can. And I'm into a 30 year old policy that doesn't needlessly force women into the back of gas stations to get abortions. (No, I maybe anti abortion, but I'm also prochoice...) And I'm into the foriegn policy that your guy Richard Nixon perfected in keeping your adversaries closer rather than at arms length. And I'm for the American work ethic, where folks can take care of their families, whule your guys want to keep a $5.15 minimum wage. And there are a lot more. Lots. So, Doug. How's it feel to be the "liberal". Which, in realitu, you are. Especially after your guys have just paid so many millions of bicks to convine the entire world that liberals are bad. Hmmmmmmmmm? Gonna cost a lot more to change the perceptions back... Sorry to be so rough on ya, buddy, 'cause I really do like you a bunch (Bobert wipes tear from eye) but your side us gonna sling that crap until it comes right back 'round and hits them in the back of the head... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: kendall Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:52 PM Doug, remember when we abandoned Afghanistan a few years ago? Why shouldn't they remember and expect the same again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: kendall Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:58 PM I sure plowed up a snake with this thread. Hasn't it all been said? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:15 PM Kendall: As long as there are dark treacly secrets all over the carpet of the White House, I rather think it has not. I would be very interested to know why the whole Bin Laden clan was spirited out of the country with the government's consent after the 9-11 debacle, and exactly what the business relationships are between the Bin Laden clan and the Bush clan. I woudl be really interested to know exactly what strings of investigation the FBI working force has been ordered NOT to pursue. I would be REALLY interested to exactly what intelligence lies behind the orchestrated Administration position that was pushing for an initial-attack strike against Iraq. There's just an awful lot of facts NOT being laid out plainly before the American public. "You can't handle the truth! Leave it up tot he pross" seems to be the tenor of the times. Well, buddy, I dunno about some folks, or their grandma in Dubuque, but I am ready and able to handle the truth. Silky side, seamy side, in-between side, it's alla same to me if it _is_ the truth. And it's complete. I, for one, do not believe the information available to me as a citizen right now is either. The stuff I see coming out of the White House is just absurd drivel. But that's just me. I'm a liberal, after all, and we tend to be a bit paranoid, right? So, really, I think there is a lot more to be said. I think we are facing the sort of obsessive egocentric neurosis that drove the loyal Colonies right into the arms of those dirty underhanded liberal insurrectionist pinkos, Adams and Paine. And I like it little more now than I did then. :>) :>) A (BTW, Kendall, I want to assure you that none of my vexious ire above was directed at you!! Hope you knew that! :>)) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:45 PM Amos: Well articualted. For months now there ahs existed a significant bofy of evidence that the ties between Bushes and the Bin Ladens goes way back and involves money... lots of money. Heck, if I were Junior, I'd consider the same course of action that he is pursuing. Lots of bombs, smoke and mirrors. The alternative. Same a Nixon's when he got caught. Man, this giy is runnin' for his life. Mix in the real facts of the stolen election and you got a guy who will do any thing or say any thing to save his butt. But ya know what? Shoulf the world actyally survive this asministration, with their Hell bent motivations to shred the Bill of Rights, there will be historians with the goods waitin' on the other side... And that, folks, you can take to the bank... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:20 PM Oh Geeze! Bobert! You let the cat out of the bag! Well, since my home town is close to Crawford, Texas I am privy to inside information ... but I was sworn to secrecy. Well, to heck with it. The Jig's up, so to speak. Bush and Bin Laden are such good friends, Bush is hiding him in a creek bottom not too far from Neil s Creek less than a stones throw from his ranch! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:28 PM He's actually hiding Bin Laden in TEXAS??? Oh, my GOD!! I'm , like, so disGUSTed!! I'm, like, ba-a-rf, man!! That is like soooo gross! Ewwwww!! You crack me up, DougR! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Bobert Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:43 PM Ditto, Amos!!! Man, Doug, you *are* the man.... Danged. I'm laughin' so hard that it hurts... Whew, Dougie............. you *are* the man..... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Donuel Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:19 AM Amos , so what if big oil makes strange bed fellows. So what that maintaining a fever pitch of war helps the administration to win the November elections. So What If The Bill OF Rights and the Freedom of Information Act Have Been Abridged.
So what that there is no god but allah and you are an infidel that may convert or be killed. So what if 9-11 also marks the high water mark of Islam when it was turned away from Vienna about 500 years ago. So what if the koran says a good muslim is a jihad warrior. So what that we continue to see oil as the energy of our economy. So what that we have as many domestic terrorists as we have NSA employees. So what that we play into the hands of extremists expanding a jihad war. So What muslims have nuclear weapons. So what that you do not know how to stop a holy crusade on both sides. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:28 AM Definition: Muslim, One who believes in God. Islam Submission to God. Jehad Struggle (personal spiritual journey) My source; An Introduction to Islam by Frederick M. Denny. All these things have been corrupted by those whackos, and they have been gleefully twisted by our own sabre rattling Resident Bush.Every time I see that lying rat eyed bastard I could puke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:52 AM All right, Cretin -- stop pulling the punches and get it off your chest -- what do you really think? Seriously, it is good to see those definitions brought forward again. Notice how in many ways they resemble the teachings of the Tao? Oh, and of the New Testament? However, they have also been distorted by fanatic interpretations and the misguidance of the misguided in their own groups as well -- Bush didn't invent that. He's just dramatizing it! :>). A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: NicoleC Date: 12 Sep 02 - 01:30 AM Sadly, Islam is not alone in attracting fanatics who twist peaceful teachings to suit their own prejudice and hatred.
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: DougR Date: 12 Sep 02 - 02:12 AM Nicole: please tell me you are not talking about Southern Baptists. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 12 Sep 02 - 05:42 AM Watching yesterday's documentaries and commemorations simply reinforced my disgust at the cynical way in which Bush and his oily friends are perverting the American people's grief and anxiety into an excuse for an unprovoked attack on a country which, however unsavoury its régime, even he concedes had nothing whatever to do with 11 September 2001. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush, Iraq, and War: PART FOUR From: Amos Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:18 AM Nearly 100 posts means we continue this thread Over Here Thanks! A |