Not Last Night But The Night Before-rhyme

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Little Robyn
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:42 AM

Here in NZ we had a version very similar to Baring-Gould's one.

Not last night but the night before,
Two tomcats came knocking at my door,
I opened the door to let them in
And they knocked me down with a rolling pin.

Robyn

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: s&r
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:30 AM

Ladybird is the UK name of what you would know as ladybug Azizi

Stu

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:52 AM

Isn't a short version of it in Stephen King's "Tommyknockers" too?
something about tommyknockers knocking at my door?

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

Number 19076 in the Roud Folk Song Index, which currently lists 26 published examples from Britain, Ireland, Canada and the USA; two of the American ones were printed in the 1940s.

It goes back quite a bit further than that, though. In Baring-Gould, A Garland of Country Song (1895, note to 'One Night at Ten o'Clock'), Baring-Gould quotes from 'a vulgar street song, beginning:-

Not last night, but the night before,
Two tom cats came and knocked at my door;
I went down to let them in,
They knocked me down with a rolling pin.'

It was sung, he said, to the same tune; which he thought late 18th century.

In The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren (1959, p 23) Iona and Peter Opie quote verses from Portsmouth (1953), Dundee (1956) and Maryland (1948), referring also to similar examples of the time. They allude to Baring-Gould's comment, and add 'A correspondent to Notes and Queries, 10th series, vol. xii, 1909, p. 518, and 11th series, vol. i, 1910, p. 55, recalled that the following was repeated to him by his mother some sixty years earlier:

It warn't last night, bu' th' night before,
Three big beggars knockt at the door;
I made haste to let them in,
An' was knockt down wi' a rowlin' pin.'

I'm reasonably sure that I've seen a longer 19th century text somewhere, but I can't remember where. Perhaps it will come back to me if it isn't imaginary. The Opies finish by quoting from a letter Lewis Carroll wrote in c.1866, reproduced in S D Collingwood, The Life and Letters of Lewis Carroll, 1898, 420:

'That reminds me of a very curious thing that happened to me at half-past four yesterday. Three visitors came knocking at my door, begging me to let them in. And when I opened the door, who do you think they were? You'll never guess. Why, they were three cats! Wasn't it curious? However, they all looked so cross and disagreeable that I took up the first thing I could lay my hand on (which happened to be the rolling-pin) and knocked them all down as flat as pan-cakes! "If you come knocking at my door," I said, "I shall come knocking at your heads." That was fair, wasn't it?'

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Melissa
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 12:08 AM

yes,
not last night but the night before
twenty four robbers came a knockin' at my door

all I remember are the gun and mother and I can't even remember how it ended but I would guess that we went upstairs to get something that ended with counting (similar to Cinderella) but I'm not sure.
I am pretty sure that it probably DID have an ending..

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 12:02 AM

Stilly River Sage, thanks for your post. I hadn't read your post when I reposted that example that Joi said could get risque. Is this similar to the one one you did?

**

Melissa, thanks for your post also. Did the rhyme that you remember start with the "not last night but the night before/24 robbers at my door" words? Would you please post it?

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:56 PM

There's also a {probably much newer than the 1950s} handclap rhyme that starts with or includes the line "not last night but the night before" but is quite different from the "24 robbers" version. See this example:


"Here is a song we used to do on the playground in Birmingham, AL back in the 80s: Last night and the night before I met my boyfriend at the candy store He brought me ice cream he brought me cake he brought me home with a stomachache mama mama i feel sick call the doctor quick quick quick doctor doctor will i die close you eyes and count to five i said a one, a two, a three, a four, a five I'm alive [Optional part] we would do sometimes (a little risque for little girls): see that house on top of that hill that's where me and my baby gon' live we gon' cook some cornbread cook some meat come on baby let's go to bed and do the boom boom boom.
-Joi; 3/23/2008; http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes.htm


**
African American girls {ages around 6-12 years} in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania {from at least the mid 1980s to this date} recite this rhyme while doing nandclaps {2 person; three persons, or two sets of partners handclaps}.

**

I like to think of children's rhymes as belonging to certain "families". In my opinion, I consider the "Not Last Night/24 robbers at my door" and the "Not Last Night 3 tomcats/pancake on their bums" rhymes to belong to the same family of rhymes, though I see them as distant relatives.

However, I don't consider the "Not last night...met my boyfriend at the candy store" rhymes to be part of that same family. Well, perhaps they used to be part of the same family. But, in my opinion, there are too many differences between these two groups of rhymes to consider them still part of the same family.** Instead, I believe that the "met my boyfriend at the candy store" rhyme as cited above belongs to the very large "Shimmy Shimmy CocoPa", I Love Coffee/I Love Tea"; "Down Down Baby" family of rhymes.*

*For examples of "Shimmy Shimmy Co Co Pa", "I Love Coffee I Love Tea", and "Down Down Baby" rhymes, visit Cocojams Handclap Rhymes page, and Cocojams' Movement Rhymes page.

**I know that there are often significant differences in human families, and that's all good-sometimes anyway. But when it comes to song/rhyme families, I think that too many differences in words mean that the rhymes shouldn't be considered as a part of the same group}.

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Melissa
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:45 PM

Missouri, early 70s, ours was a 'made a mistake' jumprope rhyme.

Violent with things like "went upstairs to get my gun, made a mistake and shot my son"
"went upstairs to tell my mother, made a mistake and shot my brother"

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM

Those aren't the same words I heard as a kid, but don't ask me to tell you what they were! The first line is the same, none of the rest sound familiar. Now it will nag at me (ear worm!) until I remember it. I remember that we got pretty riske with some of our words to that poem.

SRS

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:30 PM

Examples of this song/rhyme from Great Britain and Australia [that I've read on other Mudcat threads] are quite different from the American version, though they have a very similar pattern to each other.

Here's three examples:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: Tam the man - PM
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 11:28 AM

I remember a wee thing that went

not last night but the night before
three wee witches came to the door
the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum,
and third had a pancake stuck to it's bum

thread.cfm?threadid=84508#1559841

**

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pig with a pancake on his bum
From: rhyzla - PM
Date: 09 Sep 05 - 10:21 AM

is it related to:

Not last night but the night before,
3 little pigs came knocking at the door,
the first had a trumpet, the second had a drum,
and third had a pancake stuck to it's bum

Not sure of source - any else?

**

Subject: Lyr Add: ???
From: Snuffy - PM
Date: 21 Feb 00 - 07:22 PM

---

Not last night, but the night before,
Three old tomcats knocking at the door
One had whisky, one had rum
And one had a pancake stuck to his bum

thread.cfm?threadid=18352#182450

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM

Here's another version of this rhyme that I remember from my childhood:

Last night the night before
twenty five robbers at my door.
I got up to let them in.
and this is what they said to me.
Lady bird, lady bird
turn all around around around
Lady bird, lady bird
touch the ground the ground, the ground
Lady bird, lady bird
say your prayers, your prayers, your prayers
Lady bird, lady bird
step right OUT!
-Azizi Powell; childhood memories of Atlantic City, New Jersey; 1950s; http://www.cocojams.com/handclap_rhymes.htm


**
The person jumping does the movements as directed by the words, but does not sing the words. On the word "OUT", the jumper jumps out and the next jumper jumps in. "Lady bird" probably originally was "lady bug".

Note that I remember singing "25 robbers" though almost all of the "robber" versions give the number as 24. I wonder why it's 24 robbers and not 3 or 2 or 15? No that this is heavy duty or anything. But at least tonight, I'd rather wonder about this than real heavy duty stuff. YouknowhatImean?

Subject: RE: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:01 PM

Here's a version of this rhyme that is similar to the one that Judy asked about when she wrote to my website www.cocojams.com:


Not last night but the night before
24 robbers came to my door
They stole my watch and they stole my ring
and then they all began to sing
"Policeman, policeman, do your duty here comes (name) the American beauty!
She can wiggle; She can wobble;
She can do the split;
but she can't wear her dresses above her hips!"
Contributed by Toni Jaskoski; http://www.gameskidsplay.net/jump_rope_ryhmes/jump_not_last_night.htm

-snip-

"Not last night but the night before" or "last night and the night before" is the first line of an introductory verse to a number of children's rhymes. That first verse is combined with another children's rhymes or more than one children's rhymes. In the case of the example above, the second rhyme is "Policeman, Policeman".

"Spanish Dancer" is another commonly found rhyme that follows the "not last night" etc verse. Here's an example of that rhyme:

Not last night,
But the night before,
Twenty-four robbers came
knocking at my door.
I asked them what
they wanted
and this is what they said:
Spanish dancer, do the
splits, splits, splits!
Spanish dancer, do the
twist, twist, twist!
Spanish dancer.
turn around.
touch the ground.
and out the back door.

Source: Veronica Chambers, Double Dutch, A Celebration of Jump Rope, Rhyme, and Sisterhood (New York, Hyperion Books for Children, 2002; p. 49)

Subject: Not Last Night ButThe Night Before-rhyme
From: Azizi
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:52 PM

"Not last night but the night before" {or "last night and the night before"} is the beginning line of a number of children's song/rhymes. I'm interested in knowing the origin of those rhymes, and document some of the similarities and differences between these rhymes throughout the English speaking world.

My interest in this particular rhyme was prompted this evening by this note that was sent to my website on children's rhymes:

"I am trying to remember a song, can you help me. It starts with Not last night but the night before, 24 robbers knocked at my door. I got up to let them in and they all took a chair and began to sing. I can't remember the rest, can you help me. Thanks so much".
-Judy; 10/5/2008

-snip-

As a result of that query, I've done a search of past Mudcat threads and other websites and found a number of examples of that song/rhyme. I'll post some of those examples on this thread along with the links to those threads and websites.

But I'm curious where this "not last night but the night before" song/rhyme came from. I'm wondering was its source a religious song or an old popular song? By "old" I mean prior to the 1950s, though that is indeed old. I remember a jump rope/ball bouncing rhyme from my childhood {in Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1950s} that went "Last night and the night before/24 robbers at my door/I got up and let them in/hit'em on the head with a rolling pin". But I suspect that this song is far older than the 1950s.

Also, I'm wondering which came first-the British version with its 3 tomcats, 3 pigs/pancake on their bums version etc version or the American version with its 24 robbers/hit'em in the head with a rolling pin {or frying pan} version.

In the scheme of things, this important. But I think it will be interesting to read different versions of this song/rhyme and consider possible theories about how they came to be.

Thanks, in advance, for your participation in this thread.