BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 11:05 AM

Royston: "Yes, Keith, and my first post "grotesque sexual hygiene..." was just turning Ake's sentiments around - sauce for the goose, slight irony?"

'Sauce for the goose'????...Thought provoking!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:50 AM

Royston, re.
"It is not saying that Africans have practices that are more risky "

Yes it is. It says exactly that. Over and over if you look in to the reports.

But it is just cultural differences.
No blame attached.

I have never made derogatory remarks about the behaviour of gay or African people.
You have about straight people though.
"grotesque sexual hygiene" in your first post bore no relation to anything Ake said, as you just claimed.

And you said it again next day! "This means that straight people are suffering from grotesque sexual hygiene and morals. "

So it is alright for you to say it about straights.
I never say it about anyone, but you say I do.

You tell lies about me Royston.
Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:21 AM

Yes, Keith, *some* aspects of *some* outreach to *some* africans requires *some* culturally specific experience and context.

That is not what you said in your "practices" comment, that is not what you meant. You are back-pedalling on the racist part of your prejudice, not your homophobic views (yet).

Taking aside the breast feeding element of HIV transmission, the fact remains that heterosexual and homosexual HIV is spread primarily by unprotected genital sex.

The report you quote is about the reasons why some Africans are missed or not well served by the mainstream outreach and prevention measures. It is not saying that Africans have practices that are more risky / less hygienic / less 'good'

Straight white people are doing very well at contracting and spreading a wide range of STI's by having unprotected genital sex with multiple overlapping partners - more so than other demographics - so their practice of the primary mode of transmission is just as prevalent, or greater, than any other group. They just don't encounter HIV so often.

So it is not 'practices' in the sense of sexual acts that explains primarily why one group is 'afflicted' while another is 'saved'. The group that is afflicted by HIV then has to develop group-specific prevention measures.

The biggest definer of individual risk is about accidental (from the victim's perspective) membership of epidemiological networks - which I know that you understand; and your utter resistance to acknowledging that is one of the most telling points to emerge about your underlying beliefs.

Now we are back where we were just before your little school holiday, and I am certainly not going to go round the circle again.

Cue a load of masturbatory self aggrandising old twaddle and old statistics again, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 08:08 AM

A direct quote from one of the reports.
You can not castigate me for repeating expert testimony.
But, no blame. No "bringing it on themselves."

In particular, cultural practices that place some Africans at particular
risk of transmitting or acquiring HIV requires specific, culturally competent attention. Examples
include: perceptions of condoms, polygamy, meanings attached to sexual behaviours, reproduction,
breast-feeding and secrecy and taboos regarding sex and relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:32 AM

Yes Royston, and that is self evidently true.
But I express no blame, or opine that they brought it on themselves.
It is a difference of cultures.
And it is not "contrary to the medical experts"
Massive intervention is going on now in those communities to reduce their risk.
I posted links and quotes from two authoratative, current reports on that very subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:20 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:12 PM


The difference between general population UK, effectively zero prevalence, and the MSMs and African born, is to do with their practices.

Are you saying that because we have established a community of people from Subsaharan Africa, that the locals are going to take up their customs??

Experience suggests that the reverse will happen as they slowly integrate.

There you have it.

Keith on how gays and blacks bring HIV on themselves by behaving more badly that whites and straights. But he believes, generously, that the blacks who come here may be able to improve themselves.

Contrary to the medical experts and the STI statistics for straight folks.

But then Keith never really lets fact get in the way of his prejudices. He just wants you all to think that he has no prejudices in order that whatever information he selects for you, appears to be true and impartial.

As I say, Keith, people are learning about you.

They already know about me - I have transparent points to make and I argue them. You try to hide your agenda. Not any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:11 AM

Don T, if I am wrong I do apologize.
Just remind of one thing you were right about and I will withdraw at once.
Not the spread of HIV into the general population.
Not the numbers of MSMs infected.
Not the undesirability of targetted testing.
What was it Don?
I may have missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:57 AM

""Royston and Don T have been proved wrong on everything they have said.""


Only in your twisted fantasy world, Keith, and we respectfully decline to join you in there.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 05:27 AM

The offending statement.

Keith believes - he has told us this on a number of occasions - that he believes that the reason HIV affects different groups is because some people - gay men and black people - have sexual behaviour that "brings the disease on themselves,

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 05:24 AM

I have never said anything remotely like that.
The whole statement is a lie about me.
The quotes compound the offence.
What does that tell us about you?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:09 AM

I'm happy to clarify, Keith, that the quote marks at 03:37pm were mine, I added them to try to indicate I was paraphrasing the way I understood your position.

You don't have to resort to lower 6th debating club tactics at all.

Keep going. as I say: Everyone is learning quite a lot about what lies beneath your faux-academic love of statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:28 AM

And, I have spouted no prejudice.
I have none.
I do not tell you how to behave because you are gay, but because your behaviour is unacceptable in anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:24 AM

Royston, in your 03.37 PM post you falsely claimed that I have made derogatory remarks about the behaviour of gay and African people.
Anyone reading you would think that you were quoting me, because you ACCIDENTLY dropped in one pair of a set of quotes.

But that requires two, simultaneous key strokes.
It was no accident.
It was deliberate, and calculated to deceive.

I would rather lose an argument than resort to such devious, despicable tactics.
That neatly and clearly illustrates the difference between you and me.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:10 AM

And it hardly took you a day to start spouting your prejudice at me directly - telling me how you think I should behave now that you know I am gay.

Smedley and Royston are gay, all gays are the same, Royston and Smedley should be the same.

Take a close look at yourself!

I have, others are now learning about you as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:08 AM

Yes, Keith, and my first post "grotesque sexual hygiene..." was just turning Ake's sentiments around - sauce for the goose, slight irony?

And just for the record - unlike you, I always state what I mean - I do believe that the cause of sexual tranmission of STI's and HIV in The West, where we have all the privileges of healthcare and education, is *often* the result of poor sexual hygiene and *possibly* poor morality - whether gay, straight, black or white.

The difference between me certain others around here is that I don't judge and pontificate about selecting some people for greater blame and others for punitive treatment. I would just rather see everyone educated, respected, protected and cared for.

You are the one ranting.

And I was spot on about the nature of your response.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 02:28 AM

All that ranting and posting Royston, without addressing either of the issues I put to you.
1. You were wrong to state that HIV is starting to spread in the general population.
Our whole debate has been me establishing that and you not accepting it. (Yes Don F, nitpicking!)
And
2. You may have known that the apparent rise was due to the influx of Africans

MSMs are 90 times more at risk than the general population.
Whatever the reason, it is not "luck." Science and superstition do not mix.
Heteros have been catching the same virus since the start, but it only caused an epidemic among MSMs.

You are quick to ascribe hetero infection to their behaviour.
Your very first post."heterosexual communities are paying the greatest price for their loose morals and grotesque sexual hygiene"

I have never made comparable statements about gay or African people.
You are prejudiced against straight people.
Smedley is gay too, but he does not rant on like you.

I am happy that you will watch my posts.
You will learn more.
You will not find me posting any slander against any minority.
I am not the sort of person who does that.
You post all those bad things about me, with nothing from me to justify any of it.
You can not find one thing.
Can you Royston?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 02:03 AM

Don: "If it makes you happy to think that, GfS, go right ahead. Frankly, I don't give a s**t. I have more important things to do than argue with empty-headed bigots."

Yeah, like trying to promote laws and legislation for things you KNOW are false????

Gad-zooks..haven't we had enough of that crap going on in this country?

Come on, what is so hard for you to want to allow homosexuals, who wish to not be homosexual, any longer, to go see a counselor??..I mean, if that's their choice, why not let them do it, and love them just the same? Besides, what business is it of yours who or what they want to do? I can't fathom why you, a self described 'liberal' would want to prohibit that...do you?

Hey, and I'm not being 'snipie' here....but it seems from your past posts, like there is something deeply personal, that offends you about homosexuals deciding they want to go straight.....if they want to.

I'm holding out an olive branch to you, here. Do you really think that way?...or was it the challenge of the debate?

Peace,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 10:56 PM

If it makes you happy to think that, GfS, go right ahead. Frankly, I don't give a s**t. I have more important things to do than argue with empty-headed bigots.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 09:32 PM

Don: "It's time that I quit wasting my time and apply my energies to bringing about the right conclusions to this issue in the real world. Which, incidentally, is swiftly leaving folks like you and GfS behind.
GfS, of course, will also charge in, do a little dance, and crow, "I've won! I've won!"
Well, if self-deception makes you guys happy, then have at it.

See ya! I've got some legislators to talk to!"


Hmmmm, Gosh Don, how relentlessly gracious of you, but, it

Sounds like........

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM

No, Ake, anything but retreat. Don't make the mistake of confusing being bored by trying to deal with the same old anti-gay propaganda you and GfS have been spouting all along. It's time that I quit wasting my time and apply my energies to bringing about the right conclusions to this issue in the real world. Which, incidentally, is swiftly leaving folks like you and GfS behind.

GfS, of course, will also charge in, do a little dance, and crow, "I've won! I've won!"

Well, if self-deception makes you guys happy, then have at it.

See ya! I've got some legislators to talk to!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

I hear the bugles sound the retreat.

I hear the locking of wardrobe doors

It is indeed the end!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:23 PM

And Royston, I have long since finished with GfS. I find most of what he says rather like someone breaking wind loudly in church:   it displays a complete lack of control, general rudeness, or both, but in the Grand Scheme of Things, of no significance whatsoever.

Why don't we just wade out of this swamp and return to real life, and leave the terminally bewildered to stagger around by themselves?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:37 PM

Sorry, Don F.

Keith selects facts and opinions to support his prejudices. They often prove to be wrong.

Keith believes - he has told us this on a number of occasions - that he believes that the reason HIV affects different groups is because some people - gay men and black people - have sexual behaviour that "brings the disease on themselves, whereas white and straight people are protected by their higher, better standards of behaviour.

He tries to ignore that his own preferred experts deny this; and state rightly that diseases spread in, and can remain largely contained within, sexual networks. Gay people don't have sex with straight people and so largely keep their HIV misfortune to themselves. Ditto for recent African immigrants - although that group *might* be more "leaky" into the general heterosexual population, for fairly obvious presumptive reasons.

Straight white sexually-active people in their local nightlcub sexual networks are quite happily spreading other STI's by their unprotected sexual encounters - evidence by infection rates way above the HIV infection rate in gay men or in black people. The straight/white kids are simply epidemiologically lucky that HIV has not be introduced into their network. The individuals are fortunate - the reason they are fortunate is simple science.

But Keith will carry on saying that it isn't so. For the sake of his own agenda.

Or alternatively he will deny everything I have been saying and start prattling on about statistics again, which are irrelevant to this discussion about *why* some groups are at greater risk than others of contracting HIV.

My money is on the tired old statistics again.

We finished this a couple of weeks ago, and I partly regret letting Keith drag me back in. I should have left to his hand-job.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:04 PM

Keith, I am not particularly following what appears to be a rather nit-picky discussion between you and Royston on the statistics in the UK. Earlier on, I was following the stats that Ake kept posting, and found them highly selective, and edited and interpreted in ways to support his biases. That included his distorting of stats that he picked up from the American CDC.

I do not see the current discussion between you and Royston as addressing the matter of the anti-homosexual laws in Uganda, or (harking back to the other thread) of same-sex marriage in the United States. Legalizing same-sex marriage would encourage the establishment of stable relationships and thereby tend to reduce promiscuity and the spread of sexually transmitted infections. Both Ake and GfS, express concern for the mental and physical health of homosexual men, yet they strenuously oppose what would be a major step toward the goal that they claim to espouse. Since human rights and civil rights—AND the reduction of STIs—are my primary interests here, I will leave the UK statistics up to the pissing match between you and Royston.

As to GfS's constant sniping at me, he has managed through his inability to remember what he already posted, to keep tripping over his own feet and contradicting himself. I find it rather ludicrous in the light of his penchant for talking out of both sides of his mouth, that HE keeps kvetching about MY devotion to matters of truth and personal integrity. He has more than amply demonstrated that he is either totally lacking in these things, or he is suffering from severe multiple personality disorder.

After throwing a number of tantrums during which he indulged in gross, scatological personal insults, (which, interestingly enough, displayed a tendency toward hysteria and—there is no other word for it—bitchiness), now he claims he is very happy and wishes me the best.

Well, thank you very much, GfS.

And I do hope you get your psychological problems worked out. I think if you would just relax, acknowledge your true nature, and embrace it, you will be much happier and far less prone to emotional outbursts.

And, Gfs . . . have a lovely day, sweet'ums (kiss kiss).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:39 PM

I always wanted to get one of those centuries.

Back to Keith, Kevin de Cock says that networks are more important than any other factor in defining who does and who does not get AIDS - all other factors being equal.

Bad behaviour is pretty universal - the heterosexual STI figures prove it.

You choose not to understand, that is your lookout.

The reason you choose not to understand is that you are an insidious and nasty little bigot. I make that my lookout. I'm watching everything you write!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:36 PM

1900!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:34 PM

Keith, you can toss yourself off into thin air all you like.

We know what you are.

Our business was concluded here on the cusp of your half-term holiday. Reinventing it now is not going to impress anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 11:13 AM

Keith, Don is somewhat beyond his own control. Reminded me of this:

Don Firth's Logic


"Don: "NOTHING you say is worth paying any attention to."
GfS: P.S. Best wishes, and may you get a hard on!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:06 AM

Don: "When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

One of your many rubber stamps, I take it. Too bad you have no real idea of what the words mean,

Don Firth

GfS: "Don: "NOTHING you say is worth paying any attention to."

You wouldn't be lying, again, would you?..It's all just theater, for ya' huh?

GfS: Not to you...too bad...."When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

Highly happy, and wishing you the best!

Guest from Sanity

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:25 AM

WE have seen that there has been no increase in general HIV infection, that AIDS is raging in plague like proportions among MSMs, and actually increasing.
This increase is said to be due to worsening behaviour, except by Royston who blames it on "networks."

There is no shame in being proved wrong, but Royston and Don T have couched every groundless attack on my position in the most offensive, personal, unprovoked abuse.
They have called me liar, bare faced liar, racist, homophobe, bigot, dim, idiot, and on and on.
And all the while I was the one telling the truth.

Each time I show them to be wrong they just slink away for awhile and then come back with another groundless attack and more abuse.
I even appealed that we were all friends in folk and we should be able to disagree with civility.
That was thrown back at me with more abuse.

Twice now I have accused Royston of knowing all along that the increase in hetero infection was due to African immigration, and that he was attempting to perpetrate a huge Stalinist lie upon the forum to promote his worthless ideology.
So far he has chosen not to reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:12 AM

Don Firth, since Royston came on 10th Jan, this thread has NOT been about Uganda.
He asserted that AIDS was spreading in the general population because of dangerous behaviour, and that AIDS affected rather few MSMs and that was due to "networks" not behaviour.
You took his side, and called Akeneaton's stats. skewed when they were accurate and Royston's were deceiving.

Royston and Don T have been proved wrong on everything they have said.

Being willing to change one's mind in the face of the facts is a test of one's character and personal integrity. Can you rise to that test Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:47 AM

"When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

One of your many rubber stamps, I take it. Too bad you have no real idea of what the words mean,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 11:12 PM

Don: "NOTHING you say is worth paying any attention to."

GfS: Not to you...too bad...."When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

Highly happy, and wishing you the best!

Guest from Sanity

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 10:20 PM

Damned straight, GfS.

When are YOU going to start telling the truth?

When your posted that item on the Prop 8 thread about your father and it came back in this thread to bite you on the ass, THEN you accused ME of posting it, I contacted Joe to determine where it came from. Joe found that it had come from YOUR computer.

That vaporized any vestige of credibility you ever had.

NOTHING you say is worth paying any attention to.

Crawl back under your rock.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 10:00 PM

Don: (from Twain)""There are lies, damned lies--and statistics."

Don's reply to Ake: "Statistics, from a reputable source are many times more pertinent than political dogma."

Don: "Being willing to change one's mind in the face of the facts is a test of one's character and personal integrity."

GfS: THIS IS COMING FROM YOU???????????????????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 07:26 PM

Once again, Ake, you demonstrate that you have no grasp of the meaning of "liberal." Unless you are using the word in some specialized local sense. A phrase like "liberal dogma" is a self-contradiction.

The subject of this thread (which people keep dodging) is the matter of human rights in Uganda. The American fundamentalist evangelical religious group, "The Family," that has been pushing this to the Ugandan lawmakers is calling for the slaughter of God knows how many human beings merely because of their sexual preference. Very Christian of them!!   

You're not saying that opposing those who advocate the passing of such viciously discriminatory laws is merely an issue of "liberal dogma" are you?

I suggest that you learn a little about political science and what words like "liberal" and "conservative" really mean, as opposed to the way they are used loosely by propagandists before you start flinging "catchphrases" like "liberal dogma" around (see Zippy cartoon I posted).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 06:52 PM

"Being willing to change one's mind in the face of the facts is a test of one's character and personal integrity."

Well the floor is yours Don!

The oppositions case has been based on "liberal" political dogma, and has been proved wanting.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 06:37 PM

True. But one should be sure to destinguish between political dogma and verifiable scientific data.

Even when--especially when--the scientific data does not support one's personal biases and the political dogma one has accepted.

Being willing to change one's mind in the face of the facts is a test of one's character and personal integrity.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 05:26 PM

Statistics, from a reputable source are many times more pertinent than political dogma.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 04:53 PM

Okay. Thank you, Keith.

It's just that I hear so many figures bandied about (and not just here) with the word "estimate" attached to them that one would rather like to know if these estimates are based on anything substantial, or merely the bias of those presenting the statistics.

It pays to be cautious and skeptical in a world in which propaganda and disinformation exceed actual hard data by many orders of magnitude.

Mark Twain said it when he outlined "lies" in order of enormity:

"There are lies, damned lies--and statistics."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 04:04 PM

Sorry Don.
You were only asking right?
I was thinking of Royston trying to dismiss expert restimony that contradicted his own views.
The numbers of undiagnosed infected people is calculated from the numbers of infections discovered fortuitously when carrying out unrelated procedures.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 03:38 PM

From the HPA "about Us" section .
Same link.
The Agency combines public health and scientific knowledge, research and emergency planning within one organisation – and works at international, national, regional and local levels. It also supports and advises other organisations that play a part in protecting health.

The Agency's advice, information and services are underpinned by evidence-based research. It also uses its research to develop new vaccines and treatments that directly help patients. Although set up by government, the Agency is independent and provides whatever advice and information is necessary to protect people's health.

Don Firth, are you casting doubt on the testimony of the greatest professional experts on AIDS in UK?
What would you put the figure at Don?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 03:21 PM

In 2007,    The prevalence of HIV (both diagnosed and undiagnosed infections) among MSM aged 15-44 was estimated to be 8.5% (range 7.0-10.5%).

Uh . . . okay, but. . . .

Now, Zippy the Clown might ask at this point, "If a number of men are undiagnosed, how can they be included in any kind of accurate statistics?"

But the, Zippy is only a simple-minded pinhead.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 07:38 AM

Don T, re your repeated assertion that 96% msms are not infected.
According to HPA
In 2007,    The prevalence of HIV (both diagnosed and undiagnosed infections) among MSM aged 15-44 was estimated to be 8.5% (range 7.0-10.5%)

By 2007, 32% of all MSM seen for HIV care were aged over 45, and 17% were over 50.
http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1203928687610

So well over 10% of MSMs are infected.
Probably 12% to 15% or even 20%
For comparison, the great flu pandemic of 1918 killed 3% of population, and the Great Plague of 1665 killed 15%

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 04:43 AM

Can't you guys take a joke......I knew Don didnae live in a wardrobe!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 04:15 AM

Well said Don,

And to answer your question, Ake, about are homosexuals repulsed by the idea of straight sex, I don't think a lot about any type of sex. There are some women after whom I lust, in my mind. Would/could I actually have sex with them should the opportunity arise...I really don't know. Very probably yes

Most of my straight male friends - who are not screwed up and sexually insecure - are happy to admit to having similar thoughts in reverse.

When you rant on you really do tell us rather more than perhaps you even know yourself, about your hang-ups and insecurities. The rest of us are just getting on with life rather than developing unhealthy obsessions about others.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 03:41 AM

No, straight as they come, Ake. That's why I don't have your prurient fascination with other peoples' sexual practises.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 07:28 PM

How do you know they've got a big bulge in their trousers Don??

Does Mrs Don know about this?

Christ! every time I open this threid anither wan o' the buggers jumps oot o' the wardrobe!! :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 06:57 PM

""Male homosexuals, was classified as "other marginalised groups" Bringing homosexuals into the mainstream, as has been happening over the last few years, has certainly not improved their promiscuity or health statistics!!""

96% HIV NEGATIVE!

That hardly bears out your assertions of promiscuity, or of excessive health problems.

Maybe you are confusing them with the 10% of young heterosexual females who are infected with sundry STDs, some of them HIV positive, and promiscuous enough to spread it around rather effectively.

I'll give you a clue Ake. The homosexuals are the ones who are flat chested, and have the bulge in their trousers which so frightens you.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 06:34 PM

Just to clarify, the post that Ebbie cited from 2004.

Cruiser says the answer is to turn away and let the homosexuals get on with their lives,but unfortunatly this is getting harder and harder to achieve, as "gay culture " ouzes from every media orifice,
with all its nasty innuendo,like little boys behind the bike shed
and god help anyone who tries to stop them....Ake
PS At least folk music seems to be pretty clear of this scourge.
Just shows what well adjusted ,sensible hetros we are!

It should be obvious that I was referring to the promotion of homosexuality in the media as a scourge in this particular instance.

I did then and still do view homosexual practice based on the latest health figures as unsafe and dangerous...if you wish to catagorise this as a "scourge", feel free....I wounld not.

I do not see Homosexuality as a "disease", more as a state of mind, like bi polar disorder or a form of depression. I base this opinion on psychiatric statistics and personal observation.

In common with the vast majority of heteros, I find homosexual practice repugnant....perhaps homos feel the same way about hetero sex?

I do not agree that in general terms homosexuals can be changed, or even that it would be a good thing, but that does not mean that we should endorse a lifestyle which is so very obviously hazardous.

Right from the start my stance has been on the health figures for homosexuals, why are they so bad? and while they continue to be so bad why are we allowing homosexuality to be looked upon as "just another lifestyle" and absorbed into mainstream society?.The entertainment media contains large numbers of homosexuals, they are certainly over represented and as such are in a prime position to effect the public perception.....the health figures are never presented to the public.
I had no idea they were so bad, untill I started doing some research for these threads.

Royston I think you see my point very well Universal testing and contact tracing would be incredibly expensive and a waste of time and money as such a small percentage of heteros are infected.

To be effecatious, the treatment would have to be targeted on "high risk groups" and would have to be "aggresive" (code for compulsory) as the scientist said. The word "aggressive" or similar was also used in the UNAIDS conclusions further up the thread.

My other point was that the press had no hesitation in naming intravenous drug users in their article, yet the highest by far demographic,Male homosexuals, was classified as "other marginalised groups" Bringing homosexuals into the mainstream, as has been happening over the last few years, has certainly not improved their promiscuity or health statistics!!

So much for the benefits of de-marginalisation!