BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 10:39 AM

Too much haste. Should have read, "I'd argue that all humans are closer to other humans than to other animals, but most animals are, in the big view, pretty close to us too."

I don't read GfS's posts closely, any more than I look at toilet paper after I've used it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 10:22 AM

I agree Michael, I can't make any sense of the post....has there been the drink taken?

However it does appear to make perfect sense to Lox, who seems quite overcome.

No surprise there then.....

I've been away for a while and haven't fulfilled my promise to Mauvepink and Smedley, but I will, after I've concluded some very interesting conversations on another site...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:48 AM

Well, you may be right mp, and thanks for trying: but I still find it a most obscure and obfuscating formulation. _ I mean, how can "humans be closer than humans" to anything. It's like saying "Fred is taller than Fred" — just doesn't make any sense at all that I can extrapolate.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

I am sure Paul can and will answer for himself but...

"what does this formulation mean, e.g. — "I'd argue that all humans are closer than humans to all animals, but most animals are, in the big view, pretty close to us too.""

I took that to mean that as humans we all have far more in common than we don't but as animals we are all pretty much close to what other animals do. I could be wrong but that was my interpretation. If I am right then it does make sense on a behavioural, genetic and evolutionary level for sure.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:55 AM

I should, though, welcome [3rd time of asking] some response to the challenges I have issued to GfS to justify the exclusivity & lack of empathy in her views — in which challenges I received praise & support from Smedley. She (GfS) seems to me to have become uncharacteristically reticent all of a sudden.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:49 AM

I fear I must differ from this view, Lox. For a start, if Paul had read with reasonable care he would know that GfS is female, not male; which matters & makes a considerable difference IMO.

Secondly, tho I take his general point [I think] I find much of its expression obscure to the point of incomprehensibility — what does this formulation mean, e.g. — "I'd argue that all humans are closer than humans to all animals, but most animals are, in the big view, pretty close to us too." — it makes no communication to me whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:44 AM

There are some people out there who also live in full relationships who actually choose to be celibate too. Celibacy, I dare say could come under sexuality of a kind but, as it's more a choice thing I guess not. Nonetheless. A life without sex does not mean a life unfulfilled either. For some sex is not important at all and yest they are still very happy and whole individuals.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 08:09 AM

Paul,

What an awesome post.

Your argument is profound, powerful and unforgettable.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 Jan 10 - 07:49 AM

Gone from Sanity must include nuns, monks, and all other spinsters and bachelors and those who for whatever reason choose not to reproduce in his net of obloquy, and excuse bisexuals, especially those made for two.

He's wrong, of course, on the simplest of grounds- the probability of reproducing your genome is precisely zero for any sexual organism. So promoting other genomes close to your own is as good a strategy as reproducing on your own account. I'd argue that all humans are closer than humans to all animals, but most animals are, in the big view, pretty close to us too.

Moreover animals at the human level of complexity have something to reproduce that is far more powerful than the slow adapting gene complex- ideas. You can pass on a share of your genes to a few hundred people in the next generation if you're a randy old bugger (male, for females it's a dozen or so at most), but ideas can influence the behaviour of millions. So the legacy of the homosexual Alan Turing (computers, self- organising systems, much mathematical arcana that will take centuries to develop) is far greater and more fruitful than the most assiduous harem haunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:41 PM

R

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:38 AM

GfS - I still do not think you have responded adequately to my last challenge. I reiterate that I do not share the low opinion of your motivations expressed by many on this thread. I think your chosen lifstyle, so based on a loving family of spouses, children, grandchildren, an admirable one FOR YOU.

But I repeat also that I think you are being over-prescriptive in the way you seem to be urging it as the best, even the only, one of the infinite options available in the finding of sexual and emotional fulfilment.

How about that then?

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 15 Jan 10 - 02:36 AM

GfS, obviously I don't know how you speak, but I can't help hearing 'the WILL to SURVIVE and REPRODUCE' in a Germanic accent.

A Germany-in-the-1930s accent, to be more precise, declaimed into a microphone by a pointy shouty little man with a silly moustache as the tanks rolled into Poland.....

(His lot were very big on reproduction & very anti-gay too.)

Personally, I'm well aware that animals have this urge, and that 'homo sapiens' (the only kind of homo you really care for) is an animal, but there is this niggling little thing called several thousand years of culture that's happened since we stopped just being hairy grunty things lurking nervously in the woods and pumping out pups/cubs/chicks/foals/kids as fast as the reproductive cycle allowed. When you think of all the struggle and effort that has been put in to make us more-than-just-animals, it's almost as mind-boggling as your wish to stay defined by mere biology.

But I guess you're still happy to be down amongst the pumping grunters. Queen of the Pumping Grunters - please accpt this, free of charge, as the title of your next album.

Now where did I put my hula hoop........

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mauvepink
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:15 PM

Sorry, Frogprince, you obviously posted as I was reading and replying. No harm done though. The point cannot be stressed enough as many young women put off going to the doctors thinking ill will be thought of them over having a yeast infection. Some end up infertile because of not being treated. That comes about because some out there still think it as being an STI...

No matter. All illness needs the right treatment, but stigmatising a very common ailment can prevent proper treatment being sought.

I am sure no judgenment was being passed or made but there was the implied idea of it being an STI and that was worth clarifying

:-)

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mauvepink
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:09 PM

"...neither of us has had yeast infections"

Just for clarity, I assume you are not including yeast infection in with STI's??? I certainly hope not in any case.

Yeast infections (Candida albicans for instance) *can* be transmitted sexually, but the vast majority of yeast infections happen to women and for various reasons. Vaginal yeast infection is not the only form of 'thrush'.Three in four women will experience at least one yeast infection in their life and many will have several infections in their lifetime. Babies can get Thrush as do the elderly. Mne get what I think is called "jock itch". Women are more prone due to estrogen effects but antibiotics, pregnancy, obesity, PMS, multiple sclerosis, using condoms and diabetes can all exacerbate it. Obviously some of those things also affect males. This list is not exhaustive and there are lots of factors that make yeast infection more prevalent in some than others.

Indeed we all carry Candida albicans in various orifices and in the intestine.

It is NOT an STI

Sorry to be pedantic on that point but it is important to kill any idea that it is an STI before it gets into the thread. In short, never having had a yeast infection just makes you one of the lucky ones, but there is no moral high ground that goes with the status. Yeast infections can heppen to anyone for all sorts of reasons and seldom is it down to sex per se. Virgins can get yeast infections and do!

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:01 PM

"I've never had an STD, nor has my spouse. No Herpes, no clap, no syphilis, neither of us has had yeast infections, no HIV, nor do we worry about getting them....no abortions, either. If you do, try changing your habits, hetero, or homo."

1. A YEAST INFECTION IS NOT AN STD, AND HAVING A YEAST INFECTION IS IN NO WAY EVIDENCE OF PROMISCUITY OR ANY OTHER PARTICULAR SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR! A substantial number of women are quite simply subject to yeast infections; if you've never had one, you're FORTUNATE, NOT MORALLY OR SPIRITUALLY SUPERIOR.
2. "If you [have had an abortion] try changing your habits..."
Does that include the habit of having been raped, or the habit of developing any physical condition that makes the pregnancy life-threatening?
3. You have now reduced all people who, for whatever reason, choose not to reproduce, not just to the level of less than human but to the level of less than living organisms.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:59 PM

GfS

"All living things have two things in common, whether you are an amoeba, plant, fish, mammal, etc..and that is the WILL to SURVIVE and REPRODUCE. If you take one of those things away, you now have a form of death within your psyche..like it or not."

Wouldn't this imply that if someone has produced a brood of children and then decides they're getting too old to produce children anymore and they take action to stop reproducing, they then have a form of death within their psyche?

Also, where did you get this "form of death" thing? Can you point me to a neutral textbook or a finding in a peer-reviewed journal?

Finally, I'm still not completely sure about this "higher" status of people who reproduce. Higher according to whom? "Missing out" according to whom? What objective standard are you holding up and inviting us to compare our lives to?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:32 PM

""It's a trend, and like all trends, they recede...just like the hula hoop, and the twist.""

Given that there are documented examples of this trend going back to Ancient Egypt, and Ancient India, it's kinda long lived wouldn't you say?

And if it's lasted thousands of years, it looks like it might be natural.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:31 PM

Ake, you are amazingly thick!!!

That was a parody you the kind of highly significant statistics that you are so fond of spouting.

You're probably the only one here who didn't get the joke!

Sheeesh!!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:19 PM

Oooooops, cross threaded......check this out!!!

DonT: "Another personal side note, these political hacks want to tell us how to live our lives, what to accept, what to want, what we can say, what we can think, then get into stupid name calling,........"

"..........I'll content myself with saying that you fall into the category into which I have already place your co-bigot."

You should run for Vice President on Obama's next ticket!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:17 PM

Ake.

50% of HIV and AIDS sufferers globally are women.

94% of Gay men in the UK do not have AIDS.


but you think that the way to deal with the HIV/AIDS problem is to educate kids that Homosexuality is an unhealthy lifestyle.


DUH!!!!


    ======== LA LA LAAA I'M IGNORING YOU LA LA LAAA =======


I think Ache "seems more interested in acting the clown, than in serious discussion."


Fuckwit.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:12 PM

Okay, I'll address a couple of the whines.....I wasn't the one dealing with the AIDS issue, except for a brief post in the 'Prop8' thread, though I have seen repeatedly Ake posting links from credible sources, that people dismiss, for whatever reason they claim. That is pretty silly to me. The stats are the stats. If you don't like them, take it up with the people who put the stats on their website. Ake is merely posting what he finds available. Fair enough?

BTW..I've never had an STD, nor has my spouse. No Herpes, no clap, no syphilis, neither of us has had yeast infections, no HIV, nor do we worry about getting them....no abortions, either. If you do, try changing your habits, hetero, or homo.

Next, my little phrase, Suicidal and Proud of it'. That was a bumper sticker we made up for our studio, because of what people came into record that sounded rather embarrassing. I felt it was appropriate in this case, because, after I posted my post, because 'Mousethief' asked a legitimate question regarding those who can't conceive, due to a couple of things, and one was uterine cancer...which of course can be a cause of death. Being as sexual promiscuity, hetero or homo, opens the chances up for forms of disease, and people do it by choice, to me that is suicidal. Furthermore, as I've said before, and this is a known FACT, which probably doesn't matter to some of you, 'All living things have two things in common, whether you are an amoeba, plant, fish, mammal, etc..and that is the WILL to SURVIVE and REPRODUCE. If you take one of those things away, you now have a form of death within your psyche..like it or not. Those are the TWO attributes of living organisms on this planet...sorry, I didn't make up the deal..its just the way it is. Fair enough?.if not, read your 5th grade biology book! When one chooses to give up one of those two, for anything, they take away one of the attributes of living organisms here..and, if you then promote it, like its some sort of 'hipness'...you get, 'Suicidal and Proud of it'! Rationalize it anyway you want, but by sheer definition, that's what it is.

Next, whoever it was, who alluded to my friend, who has since died, as some sort of 'token homosexual friend', to appear 'tolerant' toward homosexuals, stuff it! You know absolutely nothing about him or myself, and how I viewed him, or he, me.

As to our resident 'newsboy-Martin Luther King wanna-be' for homosexuals, stop pandering for recognition. You want recognition?...Get it from someone you are actually doing something FOR, other than getting them to give up, and settle for less in life...just to quell your sense of self inadequacy, in your personal life...(You don't need to post a refuting reply to that...just think about it.

Oh, and another one I just couldn't pass up. I went looking for the line, and damn, if it wasn't you!..(I thought it was someone else)..but....

Don: "What has me shaking my head is GfS's contention that breeding like a gaggle of rabbits means that one is more highly evolved. If that were true, there are quite a number of species, say, for example, gerbils,......"

Funny you brought that one up. Is that your animal of choice???

Look, I don't 'hate' anyone, for making homosexuality their choice. Actually, it seems that on here, the reverse is true. I think, the homosexuals resent anyone who doesn't buy their rationalizations, and they get offended, because the reasons a lot of us don't, they know in their heart of hearts, is true! If you want to be a homosexual, go ahead..don't rub our noses in it, glorify it, or teach our children that its just hunky dory. It's a trend, and like all trends, they recede...just like the hula hoop, and the twist.

Not angry, hateful, or gullible,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 07:12 PM

""Another personal side note, these political hacks want to tell us how to live our lives, what to accept, what to want, what we can say, what we can think, then get into stupid name calling, if we can see that they are just very little people, trying to hide their shattered egos, with self proclaimed 'noble' causes....when they have NEVER even raised their own kids! ...and you want to tell me about life????""

Boy oh boy, you JUST DON'T GET IT!

Nobody here has tried to tell you how to live your life.

Nobody here gives a shit about how you live, or even whether you live.

This whole thread is about trying to stop people like YOU telling others how to live THEIR lives, and depriving them of THEIR right to choose.

Incidentally, I have raised two fine children, who are at the top of their professions, with my wonderful wife, whose shoes you are not fit to shine, and I do not feel in any way diminished or disadvantaged by the presence in society of people with a different orientation.

They are welcome, as far as we are concerned, to live, love, and marry as they wish with our blessing.

I won't offend other members by saying what I would wish for you, I'll content myself with saying that you fall into the category into which I have already place your co-bigot.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:55 PM

Ake, honey, I'm diverse, I can do serious, less serious, whatever. A close scrutiny of this thread would show that you too have shuttled between various manners of expression, so don't deny that option to others, eh ??

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:53 PM

Ake, a man is 100% more likely to have bollocks than is a woman

WTF is your point? Nobody can understand WTF you are talking about.

Another couple of years and UK Caucasian Heterosexuals will have caught up nicely. Still, what is the point of this?

That gay men have suffered disproportionately from HIV in the developed West is an accident of nature for the reasons I have explained and which you choose to ignore.

Because gay people don't generally have sex with straight people, the virus can stay contained to the group that is unlucky enough to contract it first.

Where it happens, by chance, to enter a heterosexual community it will tend for a while at least to be a heterosexual 'problem'

I hate to break it to you but ~whisper~ black and white people have sex together SHOCK!

HIV is not a gay/straight problem or a black/white problem, it is a challenge for everyone, nobody is immune or to blame for it. And you are bizarre.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM

"By the way, Ake, were you aware that men are 100% more likely to get prostate cancer than women?

Beam me up, Scotty! There's no intelligent life on this planet!!

Well, after a remark like that, the contention is certainly correct in your case Don.

BTW I'm afraid I must withdraw my opinion of Smedley, who seems more interested in acting the clown, than in serious discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:03 PM

What has me shaking my head is GfS's contention that breeding like a gaggle of rabbits means that one is more highly evolved. If that were true, there are quite a number of species, say, for example, gerbils, who would have wiped out war, disease, achieved space flight, and attained Nirvana by now. Hell, my sister's miniature poodle used to pop them out nine at a time!

Just a little side note as a matter of interest. Here we are on a planet where the immense surge in human population within the past few centuries has raised some pretty serious Malthusian warnings from just about all of the sciences. As of today, the world population is swiftly approaching 6 billion, 800 million, and at the rate we're going, we'll top 7 billion sometime next year.

That "hockey stick" graph that people keep talking about. Barbara has a world population graph magneted to the refrigerator door with an arrow pointing at 6 billion, saying "You are here," and another arrow pointing at 9 billion, saying "You don't want to be HERE!" We'll hit that point well before the century is over.

Interesting to note that the Indonesian government, worried about the population explosion, particularly in their country, have tried to encourage homosexual relationships, hoping that this will put the brakes on the frightening increase in population.

It's not working! Sexual orientation is not a matter of flipping a coin!

Yet, GfS talks about the glories of indiscrinate breeding.

By the way, Ake, were you aware that men are 100% more likely to get prostate cancer than women?

Beam me up, Scotty! There's no intelligent life on this planet!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:55 PM

Lox, I am so sorry.

I have to confess that I recent ate a cheese and chutney sandwich.........homosexually.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:40 PM

Royston.....which is it with you.   Blind or nuts?
Did you not even look at the figures I posted, from your source for the UK?

A homosexual in the UK is almost 80 times more likely to contract hiv/aids, than a hetero UK citizen(excluding those from sub Saharan Africa).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

"I remember telling them 'we get up to LOTS more than just that', but this didn't go down too well. If you'll pardon the expression......"


Well smedley. thanks for bringing this back to the important issue that I raised earlier concerning the wonton 'visiting of museums', 'having a nice meal' and 'relaxing on the beach' that you and your partner shamelessly indulged in whilst on your recent holiday.

I am Shocked!!!!

Next you'll be telling us that sometimes you 'talk about your day at work'!!!!

Pervert!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 09:26 AM

For clarification, in the first line of my third paragraph, there shoud be a comma after 'heterosexuality'. And of course 'vack' should be 'back'.

You have to be careful what you say around here.........

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:53 AM

The other revealing thing about GfS' 'poop' comment is it shows that both s/he and Ake are obsessed with one sexual act, which (lke all those who have, erm, issues with homosexuality) they assume is the primary and defining form of erotic congress for all gay men.

This overlooks three somewhat crucial facts:
(a) straight folks do it too (and most who try it, really like it)
(b) not all gay men do it
(c) even those gay men who do do it, also do other things.

Over the years, this has puzzled me, but the conclusion I've reached is that they must see it as defining of gay male sexuality because they see vaginal intercourse as defining of heterosexuality as a 'perverse equivalent'. Consequently, nipping in through the back door becomes the focus of their contempt.

Years ago, when I was helping to run the 'gay rights' group (for shorthand) at university, we had a run-in with some fundamentalist Christians. "We offer you God's love", they said "but we cannot condone the act". Please note, THE act, singular. As if that's all we do. I remember telling them 'we get up to LOTS more than just that', but this didn't go down too well. If you'll pardon the expression......

Twenty-odd years later, here are GfS and Ake (the Laurel and Hardy of homophobia, or perhapd the Desi and Lucy) still rattled and traumatised by one sexual act above all others.

(Ake at least has his HIV rhetoric to fall vack on, since unprotected anal intercourse is undoubtedly a high-risk option these days. GfS cares nothing about health - s/he is all about loathing.)

And then they have the temerity to call *me* names.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:21 AM

And just to pre-empt GfS complaining I edited her words, the full line is:

I only said, those who would WANT to evolve a little higher, than to have their highest experience in life, more than that of having their dicks stuck in someones poop!

So she sees gay people as needing or wanting to evolve [how patronising is that??] higher than their [present] highest experience. More than that [the experience] of having their dicks...

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:05 AM

GfS

When I came back to this thread the argument seemed to revolved around Ake &/or you claiming that gay men were uniquely prone to, and responsible for, disease.

That was proven to be utter crap - if it was ever true it was only coincidentally true in the Western developed world because HIV happened to appear in the gay community. It was never true elselwhere and now the heterosexual West is catching up big-time.

So then you said, to paraphrase, that gay men could not form relationships and could never achieve much because they can't raise children and families.

That was also proven to be utter, utter rubbish. Gay people can and do raise children - either naturally conceived, artificially conceived or fostered/adopted. The same range of options available to straight couples. And it was pointed out to you that it's hardly easy for gay people to have their relationships supported and respected because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU filled with such hate and bile towards them.

So then you seemed to retreat to the fact that gay people were "less" than you because they can't emulate your "Little house on the Prairie" breeding choices. But many could, if they wished. The point is still fatuous.

So when MtheGM explained that he and his partner had been denied some reproductive choice by fate (and being gay is fate also), you were full of sympathy and agreed that, of course, one cannot judge or denigrate people because of a trick of fate that denied them your "ideal" life experience.

So with that out of the way, you have now retreated to the position that you regard gay men as nothing more than people whose...

"highest experience in life...[is]...having their dicks stuck in someones poop!"

Well, I'd rather have poop down there than filling my head, shit for brains.

So, GfS has finally nailed its colours to the mast. Good old fashioned bilious homomphobe who just seeks to reduce people, hopes, expectations and lives to a sexual act - which is an ubiquitous sexual act amongst men and women of whatever orientation in any event.

And, GfS, don't come here now with the tired old "I'm not homomphobic, some of my best friends are gay..." line. That's just so passé. That you once bumped into a tragic self hating gay guy who chimed with and reinforced your prejudices, means diddly squat.

Guess what, most gay people don't have HIV and don't die from AIDS. They have rewarding relationships and families - increasingly their own offspring - and that experience could be extended to many more if sickos like you would stop sabotaging progress and stop denigrating your fellow citizens.

Isn't the case now closed?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:03 AM

Suicidal, GfS ? Another gratuitous insult to add to your swelling collection.   Although your bilious spew does nudge me close to feeling murderous.

Did your 'close gay friend' know that you regarded him, presumably throughout your 'friendship', that you regarded him as intrinsically inferior to you and your indiscriminately fecund brood ?

I have sent your paragraph about the sacredness of childbirth to the manufacturers of those greetings cards that pose silhouetted eagles soaring over a sickly verse. They might be able to use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:36 AM

MtheGM, My condolences to you, and I mean that most sincerely. I have had a few close friendships with homosexuals too. If you have followed any of my posts, during the Prop 8 thread, I wrote about one, who was a musical, and sound engineering genius, and that's not an exaggeration! Both Dale, (the engineer/musician), and his partner, Mark, are dead now..died of AIDS, both of them. A terrific loss. During the time we did music together, he felt safe enough to open up to me. You think, I've been harsh on calling bullshit bullshit, he was phenomenal!..and he didn't take crap from other homosexuals either...especially the ones who colored their sexual 'orientation' as being anything other, than what it really was/is.

I'm not going to go into it, at this time, 'cause it's late, and I've been working in the studio. I just came up, and checked the thread before I went to bed. I posted on the 'Fate' thread, as well. I'll go check yours out, now. Good night.

Smeds, breeders???? Well it beats being suicidal,and proud of it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 04:25 AM

MtheGM, thank you for that very eloquent post. GfS will, I fear, dismiss it as "banal", which is what s/he labelled any points I tried to make about the fulfilment of same-sex relationships.

Reproduction is, it seems, all that counts.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:56 AM

You don't allow for personal differences, GfS. I take your points; I am delighted you have had so ideal & fulfilling a family life. I had a wonderful ½-century marriage [see my recent post on the Do You Believe In Fate? thread]. We expected to have a family when we married; but after achieving her life's ambition of a higher education as a mature student my wife had an early menopause; so the children never happened along. Fortunaely we loved one another enough to be reasonably reconciled to this — it was not a grave disappointment to either of us, tho if we had reproduced the children would certainly have been welcomed & loved. But our loving partnership for all those years, until my darling's death a couple of years ago which I shall never cease from grieving tho I live another 22 years to 100, fulfilled our emotional needs.

And I have at least three pairs of homosexual friends, two male and one female, among my closest friends, all of them 'Civil-Partnered' under current UK law, who have all precisely the sort of relationship which my darling Valerie & I had: David and Brian, Ben & Dick, Mandy & Nicola, are all, I assure you, as happy in their relationships as were Valerie and I — and, in turn, tho in a different way, as were you and your life-partner with your children and grandchildren. We are all different — do not, please, go on being so prescriptive as to what brings fulfilment. There is more than one path.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:50 AM

So, GfS has several grandchildren.

Who wants to join me in being a fly on the wall when one of them comes out as gay ??

Still, at least GfS has nailed their colours unequivocally to the mast. Anyone who chooses not to reproduce is inferior. And, it seems, the prime imperative to reproduce is to sustain and inflate one's own ego. Mmmm, real unselfish.

GfS, of course, has shown on so many occasions the nobility of thought and depth of insight only attainable by the breeding kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:47 AM

Mouser, No, they are not lower. But those who opt out, for merely sex, moreover, sex with those of the same gender, are ripping themselves off.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:40 AM

So, GofS, are you saying that people who are for some reason unable to have children -- say, someone born naturally sterile, or a woman who has had to have a hysterectomy due to uterine cancer, are lower than people who reproduce?

You seem to think homosexuals who like being homosexuals and are content so being, are "lower" than people who have kids, and you want to encourage them to "evolve higher". So are sterile heteros who haven't and will never reproduce also "lower" than you? Why or why not?

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:28 AM

Don: "I haven't hear anyone here on this thread say that a gay person who is unhappy with his or her sexual orientation should not go to a qualified threrapist." All I am saying is that so far such attempts have not been spectacularly successful and have often led to undesirable—in some cases disastrous—results (depression and suicide). Anyone who contemplates "reversion therapy" should be aware of the possible risks and pitfalls before undertaking such a venture."

There you go again.....Hey all you out there who might want the experience in life of bringing forth your own children, you might suffer depression and commit suicide!!

I only said, those who would WANT to evolve a little higher, than to have their highest experience in life, more than that of having their dicks stuck in someones poop!

Don:"My quarrel is with those such as you and Richard Cohen who insist that gays should or must seek ...blah blah blah"

Never said that. That's your interpretation. My post about Cohen was to show it was possible, when you were promoting the genetic thing..which, BTW, you later discredited with your own post(link from Boston)...along with other theories, which also that same post discredited.

Don: "If two people of the same sex wish to form a domestic partnership—indeed, a marriage"

Head on.....but don't insult marriage by calling it such....its just two people of the same sex, who can't get it on with the other sex, living and having sex together. Be happy and prosper...well sorta'.
If that's as high as you can get, fine. My deepest sympathies, that that's as high as you think you can experience.

Let me tell you a personal side note, (I seldom do that),..we delivered our children at home, alone..just us..and breathed their first breath into them, it was a rather sacred experience. Their isn't a time, when either of us hear the initial crack, of a newborn's cry, that our eyes don't fill with tears. Its awesome, and its an extension of your own life, and lineage, that was granted to you, to be conscientiously responsible for. We have met that responsibility, and have nurtured them to responsible adults who have children of their own. Our son, has deliver 6 of his 7, at home, alone, breathing their first breath of life into them, as well. Not only that, they are their first and only, and are still actively in love with each other, as if they were in their first year of marriage. Both of them glow, and have been used as examples, in the community that they live. All, of our kids, have their own children, own their own homes, and are the tightest families, you may have ever seen. If I could possibly share with you all, the fullness of life and joy that it brings us, I wish I could. It is a wealth, I wish could be shared with all.

I'll leave on a smiling note.
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:54 AM

GfS, nobody but you and Ake are trying to tell people how they should live.

I haven't hear anyone here on this thread say that a gay person who is unhappy with his or her sexual orientation should not go to a qualified threrapist. All I am saying is that so far such attempts have not been spectacularly successful and have often led to undesirable—in some cases disastrous—results (depression and suicide). Anyone who contemplates "reversion therapy" should be aware of the possible risks and pitfalls before undertaking such a venture.

My quarrel is with those such as you and Richard Cohen who insist that gays should or must seek this kind of help rather than going ahead and living life their own way if this is what they want to do. I am especially disturbed by the fact that the writings of Richard Cohen, a man with no credentials—in short, as self-styled "therapist"—are being used to support the Ugandan atrocities.   And that, even though you may deplore what's going on in Uganda, you strenuously support Richard Cohen.

If two people of the same sex wish to form a domestic partnership—indeed, a marriage—I see no reason that they should not be allowed to do so. And that is the matter that started this whole brouhaha in the Proposition 8 thread and continued on into this one.

Is that so difficult for you to grasp?

And Ake. He keeps talking about the high rated of transmission of HIV among homosexual men, claiming that his heart bleeds for them. And yet he wants to deny them the very thing that would encourage stable, single partner relationships.

Is it any wonder that the word "hypocrite" keeps coming to mind?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:19 AM

Yeah, then they'll tell you that having horny goats is cruel...especially if they want to mate with each other!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:11 AM

THAT would be telling and likely open me up to the wrath of animal rights activists. LOL

Thanks for asking, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:58 PM

999, where'd you last see it?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:57 PM

Mouser, Sorry..and by the way, I SHALL get back to you regarding the link just that my time at present is limited.

What I was saying, that you inquired about, is, when someone who wants to assume power over other people, and dictate to them about life, unless they have experienced life, on that level(which many don't), don't tell us who have, what your interpretation, of how our lives should be..what we can think, desire, hope for, or what's best for us. They haven't a clue, as far as their personal experience...except spouting idealistic, uninformed, non-experienced, opinions of what is 'good' for us. I'm not hostile toward them, but rather annoyed, that they become a parody of themselves!...then try to tell us 'where its at'! They are light weights, afraid of life...with big mouths.
GfS

Sorry, if that was unclear. If its still not, clarifying it further should be a blast!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:49 PM

That was an attempt--albeit weak--to inject a modicum of humour into what is on occasion a thoroughly nasty thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:47 PM

"I guess if I got your goat, you must have a goat to be gotten!"

Listen up. I've been looking for my goat for days. WHERE IS IT?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:33 PM

GfS, you have confused me (which I'll admit isn't terribly difficult).

You said "If you have NEVER mounted a woman, and with her hearty help, and with full intention, conceived, brought forth a child, raised it successfully, with her hearty help, into mature adult life, you can just jerk off" -- indicating as it seems there is something wrong with those people who have not done this series of undertakings. With some vehemence, I might add.

And yet you say, "Now, do I think that is the prerequisite for that I want everybody to be like??...NO!"

You don't want them to be like that, and yet if they aren't, you're hostile to them. Which is it? Do you really think it's okay for them to follow their own path? Or does their doing so make them so despicable (if that's the right word -- choose one you prefer) that you can tell them to jerk off?

Please explain to me which you mean.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:05 PM

Oh, my my! I guess if I got your goat, you must have a goat to be gotten!

I read the sniping rhetoric, and peace loving threats, and all it does is solidify, and prove what I've been telling you.

Look, I'm talking about compassion...you call it hate.

I'm talking about the free will for a homosexual, to decide to be hetero, and you call it homophobia. Not only that, our resident newsboy, wants to deny you to desire, want, or grant yourselves permission, to be what you want, if it crosses his political thinking. Hmmm...Then he calls it being 'liberal'. That's interesting! Something to think about. Maybe it isn't as 'liberal' as you've been led to believe...the political left, is going to dictate what you're allowed to desire(?)!

Personally, me thinks, that for him to be Mr. Political 'civil rights' champion, is just a ruse he tells himself, to make him feel important, and needed, no matter who he deceives, including himself, because that's all he's got. ....and who does he get to applaud him?? People who are stuck with the belief, that life doesn't get any better! Way to go!.....find people who have half the instincts of living organisms on this ball in space, called Earth, and tell them having half the attributes of life, gives them the right to convince those who Do have both the instincts, to accept their lack of completeness, and call it 'normal',..and we who are, must hate them, because we prefer the wholeness that we already have! This is utter nonsense!

Another personal side note, these political hacks want to tell us how to live our lives, what to accept, what to want, what we can say, what we can think, then get into stupid name calling, if we can see that they are just very little people, trying to hide their shattered egos, with self proclaimed 'noble' causes....when they have NEVER even raised their own kids! ...and you want to tell me about life????
Hey, to the self appointed mystics, and politicians and the such, If you have NEVER mounted a woman, and with her hearty help, and with full intention, conceived, brought forth a child, raised it successfully, with her hearty help, into mature adult life, you can just jerk off, get whomever you want to help you, and howl at the moon. You might know a lot less about life than you've deluded yourselves into thinking! You're a lightweight!!!!

Now, do I think that is the prerequisite for that I want everybody to be like??...NO! It's just those who can do it, and have done it, know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the little squeaky voices of the frail in will, or blinded to the longer point of reference, who want to suck their thumbs, (or other...never mind), stroking each other till you outlive your age of usefulness ....Well, pardon me, if you think you've had a higher experience!..Sorry, you haven't! Don't tell me, or others what to think, want, say, or what they can or can't achieve, or how fuckin' hip you are..you ain't! Be a 'political' activist, so you can FEEL important. recruit supporters from those you can't or won't help! You WANT them where they are, for your own sense of self importance, because, unless as you can keep them down, you've got nothing to say or do.....yes, it IS all about you!....Instead of developing the ability to honestly help any one, you keep them from desiring higher, and hipper things that you missed out on!...and once they hip themselves to that, you're clocked as a lame! That's why the ex-homosexuals, don't even want to go there, or deal with those who are. Who wants to go back to third grade??

Do I hate homosexuals? NO! Read it again...NO! Actually, its the furthest thing on my mind, except when I get on here, and read the gaggling and whining, and some of you stroking each other. Get a life....or at least, explore the other mysterious side, that you know nothing about!


Oh, and by the way, how could I pass this one up........

Don:"...So—there's an end to it, GfS!! Get your mind out of the gutter."

So yours can roll by??????

GfS