Origins: Proper Cup of Coffee

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Tony Burns
Date: 18 Oct 99 - 02:32 PM

I have this on tape in my car. I'll try to remember to get the author's name. The same author also wrote "A Noise Annoys an Oyster But a Noisey Noise Annoys an Oyster More".

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Bert
Date: 18 Oct 99 - 02:11 PM

Allan C. That was George Formby I was talking about. A different bloke. I don't know anything about John Foreman.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 99 - 01:23 PM

I'm pretty certain John Foreman didn't write this, but that it goes way back to the start of the century. John, "The Broadsheet King" was in fine form at the National Folk Festival (England) two years back,singing "If it wasn't for the houses in between", and did a great double act of reminiscences with Johnny Handle. I haven't heard anything to suggest he's not still among us, probably singing at his local club at Cecil Sharp House.

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: alison
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 08:42 PM

Brian Cant used to sing it on Play Away too...... and I'm sure I remember Bernard Cribbins singing it too, (probably on "The good old days").

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: poet
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 07:30 PM

Definitely talk to COSMO THE CAR the greatest and funniest Music Hall act you could ever book for any venue "proper" is one of there favourites and they can tell you where the writer has been buried since about 1930 something. I think he's dead now, at least I hope so for his sake. great song though.

Graham (Guernsey)

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: bigJ
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 03:09 PM

Just forgot - John Foreman was at the (English) National Folk Festival a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: bigJ
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 03:07 PM

According to the notes on Cosmotheka's 1981 LP 'A Good Turn Out' - on which they sing 'Proper.....' - "It's from the rather doubtful singing of Ernie Mayne" (a music hall/ vaudeville singer).

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 02:07 PM

I have an Andrews Sisters recording of this song from 1958 that credits A. Gershunoff and E. Pellegrini as writers--but Alex Gershundoff was studio musician, a sax player, I think, for the NBC studio orchestra and Capitol Records, at that time- However,I have read that it was an old music hall tune, written by either Weston and Lee or by the same people who wrote "Istanbul (not Constantinople)--

The melody, curiously, sounds like it is a Turkish classical melody--

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 12:24 PM

Cosmotheka is (are?) Dave and Al Sealey, who research, record and, more importanty, perform Music Hall songs. They're very funny (except when they're being serious). The Cosmotheka was a London Music Hall in the 19th century. Dave and Al say "it was a bit seedy, a bit dirty and a bit run down ... and we're a bit seedy ...!"

Roberts and I worked with them many times ... ah, the good old days! (note small letters!)

Steve

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Rana
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 10:17 AM

The version I've always heard (and it is often asked for) is Ontario based County Vaudeville who do a lot of the old music hall songs.

Rana

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 09:08 AM

FYI Trout Fishing in America also do a version of this song on their album "Big Trouble".

Okiemockbird(T)

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 08:09 AM

Bert said last night on the Mudcat Radio that Foreman's estate seemed to be holding tightly to all of his lyrics, so I guess that would mean he is no longer with those of the living.

Okay, I'll bite. What the heck does Cosmotheka signify?

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 07:56 AM

I hope so, Allan! I saw John Foreman back in 1972. Brilliant, or what? Is he still around?

I was one of the resident performers at Barrie Roberts' weekly Music Hall in Birmingham, so John and I performed on the same stage, as did Cosmotheka a week or two later (go on, ask me!).

Steve

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Allan C.
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 07:39 AM

I have to agree with BAZ as to the source. Bert is pretty well acquainted with John Foreman's stuff because his father sang a lot of Foreman's songs. Maybe he has more to add here.

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 05:56 AM

Like Alison, I remember the chorus as a progressively faster split audience pantomime singalong but never knew the verses. Thanks, AndyG
RtS

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: AndyG
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 04:40 AM

I'm afraid I don't know much about the history if the song but here's my version of the lyrics as heard performed by Cosmotheka (ask Steve Parkes), but collected from the sheet music (includes the fourth verse). Unfortunately I didn't note down the author(s) as I didn't expect to lose the score.
Ho-hum.

AndyG

---

A Proper Cup of Coffee

The sultan sat on his oriental mat,
in his harem, High Street, Persia,
And he took a sip of his coffee just a drip,
and he said to his slave oh curse ya,
Oh curse ya, curse ya, curse ya,
it's the 'orriblest coffee in Persia.

What I want is a proper cup of coffee,
Made in a proper copper coffee pot,
I may go off my dot,
But I want a cup of coffee from a proper coffee pot,
Tin coffee pots and iron coffee pots the're no use to me,
If I can't have a proper cup of coffee,
From a proper copper coffee pot,
I'll have a cup of tea.

King Solomon with his queen would carry on,
so we read in ancient scandals,
And he gave her lots of silver coffee pots,
with diamond spouts and handles,
But said the Queen of Sheba,
I'd rather have any old Tea Bar.

Old Bonaparte thought that he was in the cart,
when he lost that Waterloo fight,
And he held his sword up to Wellington the Lord,
and he said "You British you do fight."
You've won your Waterloo Sir,
now what am I having with you Sir.

In days of old when Knights and days were bold,
and the whisky was much cheaper,
Dick Turpin rode to a coffee stall and showed,
his gun to the coffee stall keeper,
He says stand and deliver,
good heavens I'm all of a quivver.

---

Music Hall
Cosmotheka

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Baz
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 04:37 AM

As far as I know it was written back in 194? by John Foreman a collector and writer of Cockney songs.
Regards Baz

Subject: RE: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: alison
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 04:18 AM

Hi,

It's the sort of thing they used to make us sing at pantomimes speeding the chorus up..... so my guess is it came from the music hall days...... mind you it is only a guess and I'm probably completely wrong.

slainte

alison

Subject: Need Info: Proper Cup of Coffee
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Oct 99 - 03:54 AM

This song, known as the Coffeepot Song in the database, intrigues me. Where's it come from?

John Bartlett posted the following in another thread:

Graham Pirt, I note you know something about "Proper Cup of Coffee", which I've been looking for (info, that is). Could you post it to me at [e-mail]? Thanks a million

Apparently, he's wondering, too. Can anybody tell us a story behind this great song? On their Voices of Winter CD, Priscilla Herdman, Anne Hills, and Cindy Mangsen do a great medly of this song with "The Frozen Logger." Great CD - and it's in season again.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-