BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 08:48 PM

People are forgetting the Super Delegates in the Democratic convention that will affect the choice of the Democrat who will run against Bush.
Here is a bit about Super Delegates.

http://www.poliblogger.com/poliblog/archives/002024.html

Democratic Party has a system (via the "Super-Delegate"
   system), where 40% of the delegates to the convention are party elites...

The Democratic super-delegates are the party's elected
         elite: all 278 Democratic governors and members of
         Congress, as well as "distinguished party leaders" such
         as former President Clinton, former Vice President Al
         Gore, and former Senate Majority Leader George
         Mitchell.

         The super-delegates also include party operatives such
         as the chairmen of each state party and the heads of
         groups such as the National Conference of Democratic
         Mayors.

         Also given "super" status are the 425 members of the
         Democratic National Committee. DNC members are
         allotted on the basis of the population of each state and
         its Democratic vote in presidential elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Sam L
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:47 AM

Cruiser, I'm an old fashioned liberal, but I'd vote for any qualified conservative over Bush.

I'm not much of a butt-sniffer of candidates. Bush seems to me very much the same public person as before he was elected. I wouldn't care to know the president personally, only as a consistent, principled public figure. It drives me crazy the way we look for character clues even after we have clear public records, but I suppose it's just more fun.
I wish you'd reconsider your feelings about the death penalty. The jury system just isn't accurate. It isn't designed to be perfectly accurate--it's designed to prevent the government from rigging it--a good conservative value at work, and we should be willing to pay for it. If there were some separate standard of absolute proof, I'd be fine with the death penalty, as you put it.

I was against the war until it happened, but once there, it would be horrible not to go the distance, I think. An awful waste of lives and effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,kkb
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 06:15 AM

read "Blinded by the Right" by Dave Brock
he used to write for the Washington Post

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 08:42 AM

I was against the war until it happened, but once there,
it would be horrible not to go the distance, I think.

This seems perilously close- if not identical- to the thinking that produced the Wall in Washington with 58,000+ names on it.

Those that do not learn from history &c.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:52 AM

Yeah, and there were a lot of Germans who decided to "go the distance" in the '40's too. What good did it do them? Just because you have already started a war is no particular justification for carrying it on...but politicians and generals, like other people, are very loathe to admit to having made a mistake. The worse the mistake is, the more they will deny and prevaricate.



Cruiser - you mentioned in your original post..."Illegal drugs should never be legalized". What I am wondering is, does this mean you believe that alcoholic beverages should STILL be illegal, as they were during Prohibition? Or that coffee and tea should still be illegal, as they were at one time in respectable English society? What I am suggesting is that society arbitrarily decides what is permissible and not permissible at any given time. That decision is usually based on rumour, prejudice, and changing religious and social notions...rather than on reality or practicality. Alcohol has destroyed more lives than all the other drugs put together (with the possible exception of tobacco), but both alcohol and tobacco are legal, simply because so many people are accustomed to using them, and so many vested interests are tied up in producing them. Any attempt to make either of them illegal would result in an explosion of organized crime that would make the present "drug wars" look like a tea party...because people WILL have their favorite drug of choice regardless of whether it's legal or not! And I mean respectable, conventional, normally law-abiding people. So what do you think of that? Why do you consider a very minor and innocuous drug (like marijuana) to be such a threat that it must be forever kept illegal? I suggest that you do that not because marijuana is in fact dangerous (it isn't) but because it simply exists outside the comfort zone of conventional society that you are used to...and therefore it can easily be deemed "taboo" from the perspective of a cultural majority who are fairly unfamiliar with it in the first place.

Making such drugs illegal only provides criminals, large and small, with a lucrative market to exploit...and cops, prisons, and judges with lots of meaningless work to do running around busting people over something that doesn't matter in the first place.

I say this as someone who does NOT choose to smoke marijuana or anything else either. I don't have the right to deny another adult human being their own free decision whether or not to privately indulge in the use of a drug. That's their business, not mine.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 05:58 PM

Cruiser,

Here is something that no one has mentioned that has some merit. If you don't see yourself as voting for any of the Democrats and you don't like Bushrove, then don't vote for anyone as president. Vote for your senators and reps and other officials.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I probably won't visit this thread again.

In Cherokee culture, an abstention is just as valued as a yay or nay as tribal council works on the rule of concensus.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:29 PM

However, the government of the U.S. of A. does not.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

sorry, couldn't resist...

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:07 AM

Little Hawk,

Firstly, I enjoy your posts because they are mostly thought out and reasonable (except for some of the obvious humorous tongue in cheek BS posts, and those are often witty).

I just don't understand why anyone, especially an adult, needs any form of illegal drug to enjoy the bountiful wonders of life. I also don't understand tobacco or alcohol use, although I used both until my second year of college. I am embarrassed to admit that I used either. I have often thought: How could I have been so stupid? I avoided illegal drugs partly because I spent my time doing farm labor to help pay for college and rodeoing for fun. I did not hang out with the drug group (just the hard drinkin', Red Man & Day's Work plug tobacco chewin'/spittin', Camel cigarette smoking, cowboys; and some goat ropers!). I was offered illegal drugs and they were all around me in high school and college in the 60s & 70's, but my conscience said no way would I harm my body and mind with that junk (I chose the other junk listed above instead). I realized at about 21 years old that I did not need any of these substances. I guess I was lucky, I did my "stupid stuff" when I was younger.

If I were "King of the World" I would get rid of all the tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs. I realize that is simplistic and prohibition would not work. Marijuana has harmful components in addition to the smoke. I know there is evidence of medicinal qualities of marijuana and any prescribed drug has potential bad side effects. Many helpful drugs are derived from plants and if marijuana is used for medicinal purposes, under the care of a licensed physician, then I could not argue with that.

All mind altering illegal drugs cause too many societal problems, as does the abuse of the legal drugs you mentioned.      

Once more, I just do not understand why anyone needs to alter their mind, for pleasure, with any drug, legal or illegal.   I do not have the time or desire to go through this brief life in any form of stupor. I also do not want any person using any of the aforementioned drugs ruining my chance at life or anyone else's. The societal costs are just too high to allow use of illegal drugs. All legal and illegal psychoactive drugs (any substances that affect mood, perception and thought) can have harmful effects if abused, but the detrimental results of allowing use of any of the current illegal drugs, including marijuana, is too great a risk to take.

Now when I wake up in my 40 degree room in the morning, two of the first things I am going to consume are a cup of hot chocolate and a cup of hot green tea. Both contain "drugs": L-theanine and caffeine in tea and caffeine and other substances in chocolate. I once did not drink tea because of the caffeine it contained, I considered that stimulate too strong a drug. There is evidence that the chemicals in tea provide strong antiviral and antibacterial properties as well as acting as an antioxidant. I could use decaf tea, but I have found (and research confirms) that caffeine helps enhance physical activities, such as running. I can justify 40 to 80 mg of caffeine daily and this should in no way compare to the mind altering effects of alcohol, marijuana or illegal drugs. I am sure there are some that would say a drug is a drug and a person can justify the use of his preferred drug, just as you might say I am doing with tea. However, the definition of a drug is a difficult one. For example, is food a drug?

I agree Little Hawk, the determination of what is legal or not is sometimes based on many biases, prejudices, etc., but the fact I see is the overwhelming evidence that illegal drugs cause too much harm to society. Legal, open, marijuana use would only add to this.

I would reiterate: illegal drugs should never be legalized. The ills that they would cause to society are not worth the freedom of allowing their use.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:23 PM

All well and good, except for the fact that there's no evidence that legalizing drugs would make the costs or harm to society any worse than they are at present. In fact, most of the evidence points the other way.

Then there's the savings- in the billions of dollars- currently squandered on the useless "War [sic] On Drugs" that could be applied to something that would actually produce positive results for society- like treatment and rehab.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:48 PM

Once more, I just do not understand why anyone needs to alter their mind, for pleasure, with any drug, legal or illegal... The societal costs are just too high to allow use of illegal drugs. All legal and illegal psychoactive drugs (any substances that affect mood, perception and thought) can have harmful effects if abused, but the detrimental results of allowing use of any of the current illegal drugs, including marijuana, is too great a risk to take.

You can't define "bad" substances by their state of legality or not.

We had better ban chocolate and sugar, because it might make someone happy. I could make a far stronger arguement for the ill effects of sugar on society than pot.

Sugar, potatoes and other starchy foods stimulate a seratonin response in the body -- seratonin is a "happy hormone" mimicked by most anti-depressive medications. Oh my, they'll have to go, too.

Oxygen bottles? Gone! They can make you energetic and high.

Get rid of all those highlighters and every adhesive, because someone might sniff it.

Herbs, spices and seasonings -- all gone. All produce medicinal effects to some degree, therefore they have dangerous side effects and should be banned from use in food.

Gambling produces an excited hormonal response in the brain, as does all manner of sports. Skiing, football, rock climbing, bungee jumping... all gotta go.

Working out with weights -- gotta go. Affects the hormones. So does running and other prolonged physical activity.

TV programs will have to be carefully monitored not to show anything that might alter a persons mood. No tear jerker chick flicks, no adreneline pumping action films.

If we made all of the above illegal for the same reasons pot is illegal, would you then argue that because they were illegal they were too dangerous?

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 01:56 PM

Ha! Amusing stuff, Nicole...

Cruiser, that was a well-reasoned response, and I understand your position perfectly. Sounds like you feel about the same regarding drugs as I do. I spent the 70's surrounded by people who indulged in pot, hash, etc on a casual or frequent basis...had the long hair and the look...was a musician...and didn't indulge. They thought I was a bit odd. It's because pot is such a mild, innocuous drug that I object to it being illegal, because that results in essentially harmless people getting in trouble with the law unnecessarily, and it ties up a lot of police officers in what I regard as unproductive work.

Here's what I would do regarding pot if I were "king of the world", as you say:

1. I would make it perfectly legal to grow the stuff...privately...and smoke it...privately. That would immediately remove it from being a criminal issue, and would take it out of the hands of organized crime.

2. I would make it absolutely illegal to SELL it through any storefront or advertisment or official commercial operation...or under any advertised brandname...or in any package except a plain old unmarked baggy or paper bag. That would take it out of the hands of big business, whose attitude toward any and all legal drugs is: "How can we glamorize this drug and get as many people as possible hooked on it through aggressive advertising and fancy packaging."

3. I would not prosecute people for growing and smoking their own or sharing it privately with friends or selling a small, limited quantity of it...as they might do with some tomatoes they grew in their garden, for example. That's their business.

Now, my feeling is that under such a legal system the very same people would end up smoking pot who already do...although some might actually not bother, because it wouldn't have the allure of being "forbidden" any longer. Forbidden things are very attractive to rebellious teenagers.

Cops, on the other hand, would have a lot more time to deal with stuff that really matters.

And the power to decide would be in the hands of ordinary people, where it should be, instead of in the hands of criminals and cops.

I think this would work far better than making it illegal has. I still know many, many people who smoke pot now and then...and not one of them is any danger to society. They should be left alone.

However, my basic feeling about the drug is the same as yours. I don't get why people think they need something like that in their lives. But the fact is...they think they do. And they will continue to, regardless of laws that don't work.

How can it be illegal to grow and harvest a naturally occuring plant? The very idea is ridiculous. If I could, I would make 100 trillion marijuana plants sprout up everywhere in North America just to show how ridiculous an idea it is...it would be too much to deal with, the price of pot would hit rock bottom (a penny a pound), the cops would give up trying to do anything about it, and people would find something else to get worked up about. They'd probably even get bored with the whole idea of pot and stop smoking it. :-) A far more useful purpose for that plant is to make a very strong fabric.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 05:40 PM

Greg F: Your argument brings to mind what is happening in Sweden and Australia:
{Quote}
The comparative figures for drug use in Sweden and Australia, taken in conjunction with education policies which promote abstinence versus safe usage, suggest that Australia's policy of harm minimisation has induced widespread drug usage - 52% lifetime usage (i.e., used at least once) in Australia compared with 9% in Sweden.
{End Quote}

Sweden vs. Australia : Drug Policies


NicoleC: I mentioned the problem of defining a drug and you chose a broad definition. You are a pretty, bright, young lady. You should gain pleasure from your intellect and the joys of playing your fiddle (although learning that instrument can lead to some "drug" use if one would let it).

Little Hawk: My concern is introducing cannibus to youngsters just as I tried beer, wine, and whiskey, because they were common and readily available and I was young and curious. I even smoked grapevine as a kid and other than making me cough and turn green, it had no mind altering result like marijuana would. Abstinence from illegal drug use is the only option, in my opinion.

In this competitive world, any drug that takes ones mind to a state of unreality does not help one to succeed in helping with, or functioning in, society.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,guest from NW
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 06:36 PM

"...just as I tried beer, wine, and whiskey, because they were common and readily available and I was young and curious. I even smoked grapevine as a kid and other than making me cough and turn green, it had no mind altering result like marijuana would. Abstinence from illegal drug use is the only option, in my opinion."

here's the thing i don't understand about your position. you admit that you used such substances. you tried it, made your choice and seem happy with your choice. why such a self-rightous attitude, then, towards other people making their own choices about such things? abstinance is not "the only option". it's the option YOU chose. you remind me of the reformed drunks and smokers who had their chance to use their substances and now that they've "seen the light" they think no one else should have that opportunity. it's none of your bizness or the government's what i or anyone else chooses to ingest just like when you sowed your oats and made your choices in spite of the legality of said oats. others have made all the points about the crime, amounts of funds wasted and questionable moral foundation of the useless "war on drugs" but i just want to know what makes you think you should be the judge of everyone else in light of your admitted indiscretions?

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 08:51 PM

guest from NW:

All I can say is I am conservative on this issue and you have a more liberal view. I do not think either of us are going to change our stance.

Thanks for your comments NW.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:08 PM

Guest from NW is quite right, if rather rude about it. It's awfully condescending to believe that you were and are capable of a choice but no one else is.

And if you are insinuating that you believe that I take illegal drugs, you'd be incorrect. But like you, I did sow some oats. It was a passing phase and I derived little pleasure from it, so I didn't continue.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:21 PM

I would like to go back to the original premise of this thread: My quest to learn more about John Kerry and could I find enough reasons to vote for Kerry to help vote Mr. Bush out of office.

Does anyone know Kerry's stance on:

Illegal drug issues

Gay marriage

Amnesty for illegal immigrants

Separation of church and state

Death penalty

Balancing the federal budget

Outsourcing US jobs overseas

NAFTA

I know I could find some of the answers on his web site, but I value opinions and insights that I may get from members here.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:29 PM

NicoleC,

No insinuations, and certainly no derogatory suggestions, were intended ma'am.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:38 PM

Cruiser-

The News Weekly and the Australian "National Civic Council" which publishes it make no secret of their political agenda, which renders their article and the "facts" it purports to report somewhat suspect, to say the least. Kind of like Fox's Fact-Free News.

Its the old, old case of lies, damned lies, and statistics. Plus you, and they, are (willfully?) confusing correlation with causation.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 09:44 PM

Thanks for your point of view Greg F.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,guest from NW
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:12 AM

"All I can say is I am conservative on this issue and you have a more liberal view."

i must disagree. i think my stance is the conservative stance because i believe in freedom of choice and freedom from illegal search and seizure and freedom from harassment and the freedom of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in ways that interest me and harm no one else. all things provided for in our constitution and declaration of independance which i believe in conserving.
and back to your original point, the current administration is as far as possible from any "conserative" principles. no matter what kerry believes on your pet issues, if you care about the country you live in and keeping any semblance of constitutional government, you'd better do your part to vote these goons out.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Alice
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 09:42 AM

You know, Dean's demeanor is as presidential as Teddy Roosevelt's. I think it is sad that someone who shows he is a real human being instead of a carboard cutout behind a microphone is criticized for being enthusiastic, personable, and authentic instead of woodenly acting a script. He was just fine as a 5 term Governor. I'm sure he has the ability to be respected by other countries for his honesty and integrity, refreshing qualities, I think, and ones I trust more than someone who gives the public rehearsed sound bites.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 06:35 AM

I just found this thread. I'm refreshing it so I can study it later! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,ellenpoly
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 07:24 AM

This is an absolutely fascinating thread!! I've just downloaded it onto my desktop for later reading. I also passed it on to several friends because I find you people (I only refer to "you people" because I'm not a member) as being a great group for both broadening my own knowledge, but also for sharing such important issues, time and again. And what can be more important at the moment? No, that isn't to say that America is the most important place on earth, or it's coming election (I'm an ex-pat living in London, and we've got a lot on our plate with Mr Blair and co.) but the ramifications of the next election will surely affect more than those living there...we've found that out time and again.
I'm especailly appreciative of the website offered by one of you, about how to compare one's opinions and thoughts, with the candidates, by reflecting on their (and our) policy desires. Of course, desire is one thing, and implimentation is another...but we have to start somewhere!
To the person who began this thread in the first place, I'm so indebted to you for taking the time and chance to really open yourself up to everyone's comments. It's providing such a treasure of shared thoughts! (My own are still in the forming stage...but I'll come back when and if I have anything I think is worthwhile to add, aside from my own INTENSE belief that we HAVE TO GET RID OF BUSH. This is imperative for me, and obviously to most of you.)

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:33 PM

Cruiser, it's real simple. Do you want to stop and undo the damage Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, and Donald Rumsfeld have done to our constitution, or don't you? Do you want to put the brakes on this America-as-imperialist-bully foreign policy, which will imperil the world for decades to come? Do you want to stop the crazy spending we can't afford?

These issues are so important to me, and so capable of permanent damage to our nation, I am itching for the chance to cast my first Democratic vote for a president ever. (I've cast a few 3rd party votes, this time I'd rather be the one vote that puts my precinct over the top for a Bush loss). Kerry is not who I would pick first from the orchard, but of the two he will do far less damage to our country than four more years of the Halliburton Dynasty.

Kerry is a react-or. He doesn't start movements or even introduce bills. I would prefer a reformer to take on the dangerous level corruption has gotten to in Washington.   Kerry will be pretty much status quo, aside from gutting the Republican neocon machine. But, I will take a do-nothing with a steady moral compass and a steady trigger finger over a reckless nincompoop.

Many, many of the Reagan Democrats are coming back, the sharper 'Joe 6-packs' are starting to figure out Bush isn't really someone to be trusted. A whole bunch of conservatives and moderates are going to swing left this time because a left-leaning hand beats a four-flushing liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 12:57 PM

Thanks to all for the comments.

Work calls, so I will be away from my personal computer and I won't
be able to post for days, but I will be able to read the posts.

Keep the posts coming about Kerry (see the questions I have about him, posted above). I am still very undecided, but I want to vote!

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 01:02 PM

I share some of your views, Cruiser, disagree strongly with others, but would put it to you that if you want to save your country from hijacking by a régime in which the purported president is just the hole in the middle of the doughnut, you have to eject the present crowd for four years, and whoever the Dem is - and it's looking increasingly like Kerry - he could never do as much damage as the present lot have done and are likely to continue doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: NicoleC
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 03:45 PM

I'm all for kicking the current spoiled princling out of office. But there's a concern that needs ot be kept in mind -- right now it's pretty easy to get people riled up over Bush.

Let's say Bush is gone in 2004.
____ gets elected.
____ works really hard and has a good COngress to back him up and undoes 50% of the dangerous crap put in place under the Bush administration. That would be an amazing feat.
... We STILL must work at undoing the rest. Having a better prez won't get it all fixed; this is a long term project. Whomever gets elected, we must not because complacent simply because we think the current Prez is better than the last one. The folks who are riled now may not be with us when it comes to the long term work of undoing the damages to civil liberties and the deficit and our reputation abroad.

The other scenario says that the next Prez doesn't undo any or very little of it, but merely makes a few political gestures. All the more need for diligence. We haven't paid off Reagan's deficit yet. At this rate, the reckless mistakes of one of these jokers every 20 years will never be fixed.

Think your taxes are high now? You know that deficit has to be paid off somehow. This issue killed Bush Sr., but it was the right thing to do get a handle on deficit spending, and it did a lot to prepare the country for the economic upswing under Clinton. 3 years of Bush has undone all of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,ellenpoly
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 07:55 AM

For Cruiser...if you're still looking for good websites on who says what of the candidates, and where they stand...you might want to go to the following Slate website- http://slate.msn.com/id/2085967/
I found it had some interesting things on it...

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Cruiser
Date: 06 Jul 04 - 11:52 PM

Okay, by selecting John Edwards as his running mate, Kerry has cinched my vote. I have never voted for a Democrat for anything that I can recall (maybe dogcatcher?).

I am not too happy voting for 2 Democrat lawyers, but at least they know the rules of logic; something Bush could not even comprehend. I do not like big settlements for plaintiffs that were the forte of John Edwards, but there are worse things. I like that he is against NAFTA and outsourcing of jobs and that he is a self-made man. The only experience he needs is the intelligence that he possesses. He is a decent man and worthy of my vote. Had Kerry picked someone else, I probably would not have voted. I dislike Kerry much less than I despise Bush.

ellenpoly: Thanks for the link, I visited the update just a few minutes ago. Glad you became a member.

Sigurd: NAFTA has caused job loss (cheaper Mexican labor), outsourcing of jobs, invited increased illegal immigration, and increased pollution along Border States with Mexico (Mexican factories and vehicles do not have to meet the same U.S. environmental standards).

Bobert: Now, I'm a'holdin my danged nose and I'm a'askin you to do the same and vote for Kerry/Edwards.

All you Democrats; liberal, middle-of-the-road, and conservative: Pull together and vote for Kerry, please don't waste your vote. If this old conservative Republican can force himself to vote for a democratic ticket, the least you could do is help rid the country of Mr. Bush.

My son asked me the other day "Dad, and you are a Republican because?" Bush, his Cabinet, and their religious nonsense have changed my views of, and made me cynical towards my Party's philosophy. If Kerry wins, perhaps the Republicans will change their ways and get back to the reason I have been, and always will be, a Republican.

Cruiser

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 12:15 PM

Cruiser: Edwards' winning big settlements for plaintiffs doesn't bother me at all. To see why, read this little essay of mine, posted in an old thread: (I hope it will set your mind at ease.)

/thread.cfm?ThreadID=47646#712575

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 01:59 PM

Wisely done, Cruiser -- I commend you for thinking things through.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:20 AM

Cruiser,

The best reason to vote for Kerry in my opinion is that he has had considerable political experience and is the kind of person that thinks things through rather than goes with impulse.

He has had a good education and international experience. He speaks French and has studied Latin.

He has said that he reserves the right of pre-emption in the last resort. Here, I don't agree with him, but at least it's not the first resort.

He doesn't need money. That in itself keeps corruption at bay. He doesn't have to capitulate to big business interests as Bush has had to do.

He has taken his time to select a running mate and has thought through his choice. Edwards has more personal charisma with many than Kerry and balances the ticket.

He has had war experience which gives him more authority in dealing with this area. He knows first hand the tragedy and futility of war and why he should consider that a last resort.

Bush was never in a war and doesn't have a clue. He doesn't really care about veterans because he has cut benefits for both them and their families. Check the record.

it would be nice to have a person in the White House who is not only educated but knows how to use his education for public service.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 02:54 PM

Why is part of Frank's message blocked out?

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 07:44 PM

The best help I can offer is this: Did you like four years of Bush? Do you want four more? If you answered no to either of those questions. . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Help a Conservative Republican Vote Demo
From: InOBU
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 11:59 PM

Does anyone know Kerry's stance on:... Well, let's just pretend.

Illegal drug issues
If you can the drug laws, they wont be illegal.

Gay marriage
Why not? My wife and I are as chipper as can be!

Amnesty for illegal immigrants
Everyone but Indians?

Separation of church and state
With a crow bar... (kinda like Alter boys and... well never mind...)

Death penalty
I kill you, you kill me, it's a hard ass count-ery (to the tune of Barney)

Balancing the federal budget
Good idea, start with the three perscent who own it all!

Outsourcing US jobs overseas
If I get ONE MORE CALL FROM BOMBAY asking why I can't pay my visa bill....

NAFTA
Ever wonder why you can sell a Mexican lorry in Canada, but there is a $400 terrif on musicians?
Well... I hope that helps you... it helped me!
Vote for Kerry (then impeach him when he wins!)
Oh my
Larry