Folk Club / Session Etiquette

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:07 AM

Now listen to a performance with the chorus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uauqsVMD9UU

Quite a difference, yes?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:11 AM

Spot on jack, makes all the difference.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:40 AM

With regards to the 'not a part of the tradition' argument, I feel what may be being missed there, is that the revival entire 'isn't a part of the tradition'. It may be possessed of it's own traditions of sorts ("over half a century" is probably enough for it to have done so) but 'the' tradition it isn't. Different times & different groups of people result in different ideas about things I suppose.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:50 AM

Surely all this boils down to is being able to recognise the difference between a performance siuation and a participation situation. One can only do this by being familiar with the venue unwritten rules, by asking.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Marje
Date: 21 May 12 - 09:06 AM

If a tradition is what's handed down from one generation to another, than the revival must be part of the tradition. There are older aspects too, but if we are to regard anything after 1950 as too late to be traditional, we're left with a static and fossilised view of what the tradition consists of.

The "revival" was just that - it revived many traditional songs which would otherwise have been lost to future generations. It also "revived" or refreshed certain of the songs in various ways, attempting to revitalise them by creating new settings and accompaniments, re-writing lyrics and even writing new songs that followed traditional patterns. Not all of this was successful in the long term, but some of what was done then has resulted in the preservation of old songs and tunes in much the same form as they'd existed in for decades or centuries before. The old songs became accessible to a new generation of singers and audience. All this can't be written off as "not the tradition". It happened, it's important, and the process continues to this day.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 May 12 - 09:52 AM

Quite a difference, yes?

That's a seasoned group of expert singers though Jack - not just a bunch of random joiners in. Such highly evolved collective music making insists that the participants have at least heard the song before attempting to take part in its performance, much less be familiar with its nuances or else have the ability to effect a welcome contribution least they be damned as the hapless Jack Madden in Jacobs' Legend of Knockgrafton. The nature of music is knowing...

Surely all this boils down to is being able to recognise the difference between a performance siuation and a participation situation.

Again - even in a participation situation the participants must know their shit before joining in, least they prove they're just shit. With the best will in the world I can't extend that welcome to people so insensitive to the craft of music to think that anything is better than nothing.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 May 12 - 10:03 AM

If a tradition is what's handed down from one generation to another, than the revival must be part of the tradition.

This is just so not true. Revival and Tradition are chalk & cheese and it pays, I feel, to be aware of this as conflating the two just leads to all sorts of issues, none of which are helpful. The Tradition is largely a myth, an illusion consequent on Revival Methodology as what we're looking at are collected versions which form the fossil record of a long dead idiom of Popular Music Making. We're looking at that idiom, just so many shadows of it on the wall of Plato's Cave. For sure the two have overlapped - I'm honoured to have worked with Traditional Singers & Storytellers who have welcomed me with open arms, but never once was I under an illusions about my status as a Singer of Traditional Songs rather than a Traditional Singer. This isn't a matter of petty semantics, it's the very core of what Folk is.

That said there are (confusingly perhaps) revival traditions which are more orthodox conventions born of the inner religiosity of a movement adrift from mainstream culture by nature of its very convictions. But best we don't confuse them with anything truly Traditional, anymore than our Model Railway Enthusiasts confuse his authentic models with real trains.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 21 May 12 - 10:22 AM

Suibhne, I have some sympathy with your views on sensitivity towards the craft of music. However, I am aware that there exist a good number of musicians/singers who believe they are perfectly competent, whereas in reality they may be unable to sing or play in tune. This I believe is a function of the often uncritical acceptance by an essentially friendly folk audience and the difficulty inherent in the process of self-criticism; we like to think we are better than we really are.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 May 12 - 10:46 AM

The NORM for a UK folk Club tends to be SOME booked artists (And then you only join in IF asked) and some Open Evenings with NO booked guest but local and visiting performers doing short sets - Again , you ONLY join in if asked . That does NOT apply anywhere if a song has a chorus or a refrain .
A Singaround Club has NO booked artists ,and tends to be more informal , with a lot of audience participation and One Song at a time round the room .
A SESSION is even more informal , and can be either Just Songs , Just Tunes , or Mixed ! IF its a Tunes session , the general idea is to LEARN new tunes from the other performers , so prticipation IS encouraged .
A CONCERT is a far more formal event , but even at Concerts , Audience participation is encouraged for Choruses and refrains .

If any one in UK disagrees with my assessment please tell me what differences you consider the norm in YOUR area .

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 12 - 10:48 AM

Sessions and singarounds serve an essential function in keeping this music alive - they are a place where newcomers can get a feel for what it might be like to perform the stuff. That means guitarists who have previously got no nearer to traditional music than the acoustic end of pop; classically trained fiddlers who have at most a handful of tunes memorized; and singers who can do two or three familiar cliche songs while looking at their lyric sheet. If you tell all those people to bugger off and take lessons for a couple of years before coming back, they not only won't come back, they'll tell their friends to stay away as well.

Most of the time this sort of newcomer - new to the folk/trad idiom but not new to musical performance - will see quite quickly what they need to learn (and the people in the session will probably have useful pointers on how to go about it). But they need a chance to try first.

I think Jim is old enough to have told Kevin Burke to fuck off and come back when he wasn't still wet behind the ears. And he probably did exactly that to people of the same generation who might by now have been just as good if they hadn't despaired of ever being accepted.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 21 May 12 - 10:52 AM

Leadfinger, your definitions accord exactly with what happens in my neck of the woods. john

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Musket
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:04 AM

Mind you, I recently played a slip jig on a mandolin, wanting the usual crew to join in, and the 9/8 floored them, (took years to forget to count and just play on instinct.)

So, the answer is, if you want to play Billy No Mates, stick to slip jigs.

Leadfinger - I don't think there is a norm. or at least, not in the etiquette sense. A folk club will always comprise of those who see reciting songs as something similar to stamp collecting, keeping a record of days gone by in the oral tradition, coupled with those who can play an instrument and realise, quite rightly, that a folk club is an excellent venue in which to share your hobby, those who enjoy listening and / or joining in, and those who are trying to recapture their youth.

Oh, and those who enjoy a pint with good mates.

I reckon you couldn't get a consensus on etiquette from that lot, never mind the other 70% of attendees!

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:29 AM

Slip jigs - love 'em! We do "Drops of Brandy" and "Foxhunter's", "Butterfly" and "Rocky Road To Dublin" and quite a few others.

When I first started doing trad tunes, many years ago, I found thinking in 9/8 a bit of a bugger at first, so I can understand the reluctance of joiners-in!

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:32 AM

Iam M - I was trying to clarify the Nomenclature to reduce the arguments about what was meant . The Etiquette question is the one that will really vary from place to place .

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:43 AM

Leadfingers' categorization fits what I see around here (Edinburgh/Midlothian).

There are also "open mike" events, somewhere between a singaround and a folk club open evening, but which are usually a different genre. If you want to do Mumford & Sons material or your own songs in that style, they're the place for you.

I don't know any regular event in Britain where unaccompanied fiddle is the usual fare, though. Does everybody in Jim's neck of the woods dislike Kevin Burke so much they won't play with him?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Vic Smith
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:13 PM

Will Fly wrote -
I get a snare drummer, a bohran player and a bones player accompanying me very loudly,

The problem last Tuesday was that the sheer volume of the percussionists - and let's be honest nearly all of it was coming from the snare - that the melody instrumentalists could not hear what they were playing. Tina was sitting next to him and had to hold her concertina up by her ear to hear herself.
To be fair to Roger on bodhran; He saw the situation and played with brushes all evening - at least, I assume he was playing. I couldn't actually hear him at my end of the table.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 12 - 01:14 PM

Jack, it takes two to tango.
no one minds guitarists joining in sessions very quietly if they are not sure of the tune, like wise people humming or singing harmonies, in singarounds or concerts or folk clubs, but NOT louder or as loud as the performer.
it is not acceptable for guitarists in sessions to put melody players off by banging away loudly with wrong chords, nor is it acceptable for people to start joining in with a guest at a folk club unless they have been asked, choruses are different, but it should be up to the min performer to dictate the speed of the chorus, it is not acceptable for people in the audience to slow down and drag out the chorus in a style reminscent of les paisley.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Glasgow Boy
Date: 21 May 12 - 01:56 PM

Going off at a bit of a tangent; what do people think of those who perform the same (Randy Newman) song every session, week in/week out? Are they not inviting people to either join in or smash their bloody Takamine over their head? Especially when this particular person noodles like a Chinese takeaway over everything everybody else does. Of course, he does everything of his own on capo fret 1. I thought it was showing off, now I know better.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 12 - 02:29 PM

Retune his guitar down a semitone while he's in the bog?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 May 12 - 03:27 PM

"Do you mean the Irish or the English tradition, or both?"
Irish, English and particularly Scots, with its emphasis on big ballads.
All are narrative based, to one extent or another - every one of the older singers we interviewed described themselves as storytellers, in every case the words took precedent of the tunes.
"Why on earth would so many old songs and ballads have choruses and refrain lines if it was not normal for people to join in?"
It was normal for everybody to join in - on the choruses.
If our tradition was a choral one we would have known about it centuries ago and the structure of our songs would have reflected that fact - as it is, it seems to be a purely 21st century phenomenon.
For me joining in is evidence for me that those who do so hae no interest in what the singer is doing.
"Walter Pardon may not have liked the way people joined in his choruses"
What happened to Walter's songs was that, once again, some audiences just weren't listening to what he was doing, they were more interested in what they wanted to do and they dragged the songs down to a pace he was not used to - the height of bad mannered insensitivity. You should always defer to the singer, just as you should never try as an individual musician, to push the pace of the playing, as described by Steve Gardham
I think it had far more to do with self-indulgent audiences rather than the church
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 May 12 - 04:40 PM

Not quite as bad perhaps but I went to see one of Shirley Collins's talks at Fylde a few years back - A Most Sunshiny Day - illustrated with slides & audio examples. Guess what? The folkies in the audience sang along with the archive recordings, completely ruining it for one unhappy camper.

Mutter, mutter. Who do these people think they are?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 12 - 05:39 PM

Oh, obviously not as good as you, Sweeney. You are an enigma - sometimes you see things, but so much of the time you don't and cover it up with verbiage - like your attack on Marje above.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:38 PM

Those of us in US at least have a number of traditions, and sitting quietly while someone else sings is not probably the norm. And neither is it the only way in the British Isles. How do the Welsh sing? How do the Cornish? Farther away, how do the South Africans? How do the Germans? Russians? There is just not one tradition from which it is rude to deviate. It is up to people who organize these groups to let people know what the rules are they are singing under. I like the Welsh rules myself. First, work in a coal mine. THen come up from the coal mine singing. Sort of leaves most women out but oh well..a small price to pay for not having to work in a coal mine. mg

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:46 PM

having had a good sing and several pints I am minded to say, There's now't so queer as Folk. John

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:53 PM

Singing practices don't divide up along ethnic or regional lines anywhere. Every culture has multiple performance practices: people don't sing in the bath the same way they do at a football match, in church, at a karaoke night or on a bus when inspired by their mobile phone. Even in church there are different practices within the same ceremony; some bits of liturgy are performed communally, others left as solos for the grand hoodoo in charge.

Code-shifting is something humans are good at.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:56 PM

like your attack on Marje above

What attack? I just simply a position entirely respectful of the situation regarding Tradition and Revival. The revival is not the heir of the tradition; Folk is quite a distinct invention in its own right. Seems you're looking for trouble where isn't any.

But, if I've caused any offence, let me say that was certainly not my intention. I was simply talking frankly and freely as we all do here. There was nothing personal in my response to Marge's post - unlike Richard's witless sniping (i.e. You are an enigma - sometimes you see things, but so much of the time you don't and cover it up with verbiage). What are you on?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:39 PM

How do the Welsh sing?

"Too loud, too often and flat."

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 12 - 03:14 AM

"Oh, obviously not as good as you, Sweeney. "
And not as good as whoever was singing on the archive recording, it would seem - Harry Cox maybe, Jeannie Robertson, Sam Larner.... - all desperately in need of comfort and support from the joiners-inners.
This really is a piss-poor argument Richard - wouldn't stand up in court.
Taking your own cue, it could be claimed your own attitude to be "Who do these arrogant pratts think they are if they imagine he can sing their songs without my help".
I'm sure this isn't what you mean - or is it; your consistant refusal to qualify your argument leads me to believe that perhaps it is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:04 AM

My argument is very simple.

Give gatekeepers the power to decide who may and who may not sing and soon no-one will be allowed to sing but the gatekeepers (some of whom I would bar from singing, but I don't because of that factor).

In the above "sing" includes "play".

It's very like politics really - those who aspire to rule others are usually the last who should be permitted so to do.


A prime example is that player I mentioned above (the one who joined in on an instrument and forced an unaccompanied singer to change key) who while oblivious to the dreadful quality of such playing often tries to control who should not be allowed to sing.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:19 AM

It seems to me we're talking about several different things here, which partly accounts for that whooshing noise you hear as people talk past each other.

There's a difference between songs and tunes, and there's a difference between joining in at all, joining in at the wrong time and joining in badly.

On tunes, Jim seems to be saying that punters shouldn't join in at all; I think he's in the minority if so, but maybe things are different in Ireland. Most of us think people should be free to join in in sessions, but Jack's saying that some people join in (or don't join in) at the wrong time. And Will and Vic are saying that some people join in badly.

On songs, I don't think anyone is saying that people shouldn't join in at all, but a few people are saying that they shouldn't join in at the wrong time, e.g. by singing along to the verses (that's a bugbear of mine, although it does seem to be quite widely accepted). And Suibhne started it all by talking about people joining in badly.

I'm not sure that anyone is arguing in favour of people joining in ineptly or in the wrong key. (In my defence, in a big session sometimes it's hard to hear your own whistle - and a lot of those tunes are in G...) I don't think there's much disagreement about whether people should join in at the wrong time, or even what the wrong time is. Basically I think we're all agreed, mostly.

Now, about those cows. These are small...

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:21 AM

So you are against solo singing in clubs even given the somewhat loaded proviso that a singer should ask an audience not and therefore "decide who may and who may not sing" ?
How quaint!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Marje
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:46 AM

For what it's worth, I wasn't offended by Suibhne's post addressing what I said, simply bemused. There didn't seem to be anything offensive, but I really could make no sense of it, so I didn't bother to reply.

Jim: I see what you mean now about Walter Pardon and agree that if people join in they should so so with some sensitivity to the way the singer chooses to sing. Again, that seems like basic respect and good manners. And I was serious in what I said about the church - church harmonies have had a huge effect on our communal singing habits (which I like); also,the church has taken lots of good tunes and dragged them down to a funereal pace (which I don't like).

But choral singing a 21st-century phenomenon? Come on, most of us (and you) are old enough to have experienced it at least a few decades back into the 20th century. And the Copper family's style, albeit somewhat exceptional in the English tradition, has been hugely influential and goes back further than that. Also, the strong tradition of amateur choirs and choral societies, particularly in England and Wales since the 19th century, has meant that many people first experience singing in the context of church choirs and harmonies.

Marje

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:59 AM

It is no wonder that the folk scene is marginalised.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 May 12 - 05:38 AM

For what it's worth, I wasn't offended by Suibhne's post addressing what I said, simply bemused. There didn't seem to be anything offensive, but I really could make no sense of it, so I didn't bother to reply.

One of the principle conceits one encounters among Folkies is that what they are doing is somehow keeping The Tradition alive. I dispute this with very good reason as The Tradition (as far as it existed at all) was a) something very different indeed; and b) is well dead anyway; and c) is something we have no clear understanding of bar a few scraps left in the fossil record.

Even with all the assembled & wondrous archives of Child, Roud, Max Hunter, Alan Lomax, VOTP, Folktrax et al we're still just standing in the empty ruins of Pompeii trying to imagine what life these songs once had before the mechanisations & machinations of the 19th / 20th centuries either collected them or wiped the slate clean. The Revival is born from the former, thus socially, economically, politically, culturally, functionally the two things couldn't really be more different.

Folk is a dream predicated on certain assumptions; for the most part I'd have to say it was a good dream, engendering as much very essential creative work as MOR reactionary crap. It's a dream that has both beguiled & baffled me since I was a boy; but never once was I under any illusion as to the nature of its reality. Whilst I am as fond of its beauty & richness as the next woman or man, I'm under no illusions that Folk perpetuates The Tradition in exactly the same way model railways perpetuate The Age of Steam.

Of course most Folk doesn't claim to do this at all; most of us just get on with it because we love it. We're not breathing new life into the old songs, rather the old songs are breathing new life into us. In singing an old song we're communing with something essentially unsayable, which is what precisely what Folk is. Very different to what it thinks it is for sure...

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:01 AM

Weirdly, this thread seems to have at least two seperate discussions going at the same time. No wonder it's confusing.

The main one about folk club/session etiquette seems quite straightforward. Different clubs/sessions have different ways of doing things. Find what it is (usually by paying attention or asking someone) and go with the flow. When its yourturn, if you want to do things differently to how the gathering usually does them, tell 'em. If you don't like the way people do things, suggest alternative approaches or go somewhere else. Going back to the OP, Suibhne was quite within his rights to ask the joiner-in to desist. Equally, to chose a random example, Jack C is quite within his rights to ask people to join in with him. How hard does it all have to be??

There also seems to be a sub-discussion going on about 'how things were done in "the" tradition'. Unless your club/session is a historical re-enactment society which has identified a particular part of 'the' tradition and has the aim of replicating it exactly, how things were done in 'the' tradition is completely irrelevant. The revival is not the tradition. It's people now doing stuff now, usually for pleasure, sometimes as a job. All that matters is how things are done in each gathering of folk song and folk tune enthusiasts, and this will vary from gathering to gathering. Like in any situation where people get together to do stuff.

Disclaimer: I have an aversion to the idea of 'doing things properly'. None of us are 19th century rural peasants singing in the pub or at home in an era predating mass communication or mass transport. Whether it be unnaccompanied ballad singing at a singaround or feedback 'n' fuzz-ridden garage rock reinventions of traditional songs in a sweaty club or anything in between, its all grist to the mill. No-one has to like it all...

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:05 AM

Cross posted with Suibhne above...

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:12 AM

"But choral singing a 21st-century phenomenon? "
Choral singing when applied across the board to any type of music (in this case folk) is not only 21st century, but is confined only to the revival as far as I can see (especially as some people here would have it as compulsory unless permission was sought and obtained).
The Copper style is all but unique to one family, and is a good example (imo) of how it doesn't work on all songs It is a family 'tradition' just as singing around the piano can be described as such - do you envisage that approach for, say, classic ballads?
To me, it is as bizarre as Richard's desire to turn us into herd animals, forbidden to create outside the group - Orwellian, to say the least.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:21 AM

We losing count, Jim? 20th century seems to be your intention - not that everyone will agree with that either!

Regards

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:32 AM

what about sea shanties?

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:33 AM

Choral singing when applied across the board to any type of music (in this case folk) is not only 21st century, but is confined only to the revival as far as I can see

Choral singing - and in particular, polyphonic choral singing - dates back thousands of years and has always been the norm for a large fraction of humanity. Lots of good examples linked from here:

http://music000001.blogspot.co.uk/

There are many musical cultures where solo singing is unknown - all performance is in polyphonic groups.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:42 AM

OK - I see the essential ambiguity in Jim's sentence. Resolving it just changes the jersey colour of his opponents...

Regards

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 12 - 06:55 AM

Jack's saying that some people join in (or don't join in) at the wrong time.

I was more concerned to say that people mostly do it at the right time. By and large the communicative interactions in a session achieve a result everybody is happy with, or they wouldn't keep coming back and the session scene wouldn't be as dynamic as it is. Trainwrecks are unusual.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:00 AM

Will and Vic are saying that some people join in badly.

No - I quoted a particular occasion when the percussion accompaniment was a little top-heavy. I also said that that was the way it was and I accepted it.

At the sessions I run and help to run, all are welcome to join in with anything, unless the instigator of the song/tune indicates otherwise.

As for myself as instigator, I'm happy for everyone who wants to to join in - slightly irritating as it might be sometimes - because I believe that's what my "session" is for: to bring people of all types, abilities and persuasions together to make communal music. The result of that can occasionally be tedious - it can also occasionally be glorious.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:04 AM

Here is a fascinating paper which discusses the dynamics of a particular irish music. well worth a read.
href=http://www.music.ucc.ie/jsmi/index.php/jsmi/article/view/10/12
there is much to be learned here.
John

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:18 AM

Click here for that article.

Regards

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:19 AM

Could part of the problem be that SESSION can mean something different in Ireland to what it means in most parts of England?

As a singer and musician I must admit my own personal preference is to the typical English tunes session where folk tunes of the British Isles are played and all are welcome to join in regardless of level and instrument, and the occasional solo is appreciated, and the occasional song. And if the singer wishes to perform a solo they make it clear in some way. I fully accept I'm not a good listener. I much prefer to be active and involved, which is why I prefer sessions to singarounds, even though I have been known on many occasions to run singarounds at other people's instigation.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:30 AM

Exactly my viewpoint, Steve.

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: johncharles
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:47 AM

MartinRyan thanks for the blue clicky
John

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Ben
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:52 AM

I live in Ireland. If you were to speak during a song, the whole place would make you shut up! Unless self accompanied, or specifically requested, solo singing is the norm.

At a session, you politely ask to sit in. I play guitar, sing, and play anglo concertina. I wouldn't join in on the concertina if I didn't know the tune, so why would I accompany on guitar if I didn't? I'd ruin it just as completely.

If I encounter a complete fool, I pick a special song, and tell them "B flat minor" etc. Then launch in. If there's another guitar, or a piano, I don't play chords, just the melody, or countermelody. Nothing worse than chord soup!

Subject: RE: Folk Club / Session Etiquette
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 22 May 12 - 09:06 AM

Ben, is a complete fool simply someone who isn't as good a musician as you? Or am I missing something?