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BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:49 AM A far-ranging study of homosexual men published in 1978 revealed that 75 percent of self-identified, white, gay men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: 15 percent claimed 100-249 sex partners; 17 percent claimed 250- 499; 15 percent claimed 500-999; and 28 percent claimed more than 1,000 lifetime male sex partners. By 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, homosexual men were reportedly curtailing promiscuity, but not by much. Instead of more than 6 partners per month in 1982, the average non-monogamous respondent in San Francisco reported having about 4 partners per month in 1984. Promiscuity among lesbians is less extreme, but it is still higher than among heterosexual women. Overall, women tend to have fewer sex partners than men. But there is a surprising finding about lesbian promiscuity in the literature. Australian investigators reported that lesbian women were 4.5 times more likely to have had more than 50 lifetime male partners than heterosexual women (9 percent of lesbians versus 2 percent of heterosexual women); and 93 percent of women who identified themselves as lesbian reported a history of sex with men. Other studies similarly show that 75-90 percent of women who have sex with women have also had sex with men. " The Health Risks of Gay Sex JOHN R. DIGGS, JR., M.D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:28 AM ""Lox, I linked Christians with homophobes because, if you read the report, it is a Christian movement which is calling for the ultimate legal penalty to be applied to homosexuals. That's homophobic enough for me. What disappoints is that for some of you, the self- assumed tag "Christian" puts them beyond criticism."" I think you miss the point Paul. Nobody here is actually defending these nutjobs. What you have is the usual knee jerk reactions of a few on both sides. 1. You have the few who seize every opportunity to discredit a belief system which posits the existence of God 2. You have the few who see every comment about any religious sect, as an attack on religion per se. Two opposing schools of thought which, based on their individual false premises, go to war on practically every thread where any mention is made of religion. IMHO, the important fact about the "Family" is that, no matter what they choose to call themselves, they are about as far removed from "Christian" as it is possible to be. Therefor, anyone attacking their aims and objectives is emphatically NOT attacking either Christianity, or religious faith (believers please note). On the other side of the coin, those who do not believe in a deity, should take a step back, and re-examine their stance on religion. There is as much proof of the non-existence, as there is of the existence, of GOD!..........Precisely none! Neither side can ever prove their case, so instead of constantly reiterating "THERE IS NO GOD", it might be more respectful of others' feelings to say "I don't believe in God". Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: ToeRag Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:37 AM I have heard you say so before, but cannot believe it; at any rate, it will not be so in my case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:56 AM For some reason I have a skepticism over the figure for lesbian women having relationships with men. I am certainly not saying it never happens, no less than gay men having relationships with women, but I would tend to put them in a bisexuality area than full lesbian. Some women only 'find out' (finally admit) later in life they are 'true' lesbian after many failed and even abusive relatinships with men (from personal experience not anything I have stats for). And, again, some sexuality is fluid and changes as we go through life. We are what we are at the time but will we be the same at any time in the future? For sure there is research in the whole area about sexuality, it's spectrum and where we as individulas sit on the continuum at any one time. On average women appear to be more fluid than men (but it could be that is women are more open and not as stressed about theior sexuality as many men). Kinsey found a great deal of fluidity within genders, ages and sexualities. That some lesbians have and do have relationships with men makes them no less lesbian. Ultimately it is about loving women, not hating men. mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: ToeRag Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:02 AM Eteetera, eteetera, eteetera; what an extraordinary omnium-gatherum ! this is the box in question,I suppose. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: MGM·Lion Date: 05 Dec 09 - 10:05 AM ===There is as much proof of the non-existence, as there is of the existence, of GOD!..........Precisely none!=== Brilliant, Wyzywig! So I think I shall take to the worship of the 37 Brown·Sugar·Rattlesnake·Gila·Monsters who live in Soudley Ponds in the Forest of Dean — there is, according to your philosophically unchallengeable postulation above, no proof of Their non-existence either. Anyone care to join me? — I bet we could get Lottery Money to build a Temple dedicated to Their worship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,mauvepink Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:51 AM (sorry for the blank post. I have no idea how that happened. Could it be removed please) I think what Don(Wyziwyg) is describing is not "his own philosophically unchallengeable postulation" but the general idea of Agnosticism a term forst coined by Thomas Henry Huxley. Many people who are not athetists or theists are agnostics. It is basically saying there is no proof tangible proof there is a God than it is that there is tangible proof for a God. It does not necessarily mean you have no belief but that you have an open mind to the idea until proof shows itself. I myself am intellectually skepitical about the existence of God BUT also emotionally spiritual so agnosticism helps me allow for the possibility of a God without me being atheistic. Do you get my meaning? It could well be that there is/is not physical proof of the 37 Brown·Sugar·Rattlesnake·Gila·Monsters who live in Soudley Ponds in the Forest of Dean, and so that can be tested, but if that is not the case agnosticism can be invoked for many things. I thought Don(Wyziwyg)'s explanation was acceptable as a skeptic. mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: MGM·Lion Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:03 PM ===37 Brown·Sugar·Rattlesnake·Gila·Monsters who live in Soudley Ponds in the Forest of Dean, and so that can be tested, === oh, no, mp, be assured — they are even more shy & harder to catch than Nessy... or God. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: ToeRag Date: 05 Dec 09 - 01:52 PM Something is greater if it exists than if it doesn't.If God is the greatest thing imaginable, he must exist. I may paint an imaginary masterpiece, but that only means i imagine that i paint a masterpiece, in fact, since it does not exist, it is no better than my actually existing 'inferior'paintings. A real masterpiece must always be better than an imaginary one!
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:05 PM Are ideas real? Yes. They are very real. They are not physical, but they are real. If you don't think so, take note of what power an idea can have, and how it can change the world. You cannot find "tangible" proof for either God...or an idea...or a movement of imagination that occurs in the mind...but just because something is not tangible does not mean it isn't real. Non-tangible things such as ideas and thoughts formed in someone's imagination can have real effect...effect that is soon seen in the world of the tangible, because thoughts affect actions and they also affect one's physical health and well-being over a period of time. Consciousness rules our reality. It is the crucial factor in experiencing reality. Without consciousness we would not even be aware of anything physical, and the world we experience...for us...would vanish, to all intents and purposes. And that is exactly what happens for you when you become unconscious. The world as you knew it vanishes. If you remain permanently unconscious, then the world...for you...has ceased to exist, as has life itself. Consciousness isn't tangible either. But it is real. God, if there is a God, is not to be found in what is tangible, but in the realm of consciousness. Without consciousness, you could not presently be reading this post...and finding something in it to disagree with! ;-) Consciousness is what you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: frogprince Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:15 PM "If God is the greatest thing imaginable, he must exist." ToeRag, I really don't know for sure where you're going. Are you setting that out as as actual evidence for the existence of God? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: mauvepink Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:19 PM Little Hawk... that is so eloquent and beautifully put. It also explains wonderment and hope and, if not, it sure feels like it does Thank you :-) mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:30 PM Ake: Don..We are not "disagreeing" over whether or not I have homosexual tendencies; you are simply making a statement which you have no way of substanciating and which is quite untrue.Ake, I didn't say anything about you being a homosexual. The disagreement I referred to is about your erroneous contention that homosexual men are the source of the HIV/AIDS virus, and if they were somehow restrained, HIV/AIDS would simply go away – and that homosexuality equals pedophilia. All I said was that judging from your vociferous presence on the California Proposition 8 (anti-gay marriage) thread, and then again here, with the same ferocity (not to mention cobbled statistics), you seem to be obsessed with the subject. You put the rest together yourself! (Sort of a self smear). Getting more interesting all the time. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:30 PM You're welcome. ;-) This is why religions (at their deeper level) are essentially concerned mainly with consciousness, and how to manage one's consciousness in the most positive, harmonious, and effective fashion. That is the crux of all the Asian religions and philosophies such as Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and the Yogic disciplines. It is also the crux of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam...at their deeper levels of understanding. (On the more surface levels one sees rituals, traditional forms, rules and regulations, hierarchies, etc...but those are the more superficial aspects of religion.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:48 PM frogprince - Toe Rag's statement is an interesting one. It could mean a number of things. What does "the greatest thing imaginable" mean? It could mean different things to different people. One person might see it as the largest single physical object we can imagine...in which case, it could be a huge star...or it could be the whole Universe (a collection of objects). Another might see it as bigger than the observable Universe. Another might see it as "all that is" (which would include, theoretically, not just the observable Universe, but all other dimensions and universes, all thoughts, all energies, etc). Some religions and philosophies do see God as "all that is". If that's the way you see it, then no one can deny the existence of all that is, can they? It's self-evident. So it depends on how you define "God". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 02:56 PM Well you're not often right Don, but I'm afraid you are wrong again. You have repeatedly on this and other threads alluded that my interest in this subject is related to my sexual orientation.....something you know absolutely nothing about. On the various threads concerning, homosexual "marriage", homosexual fostering, and homosexual child abuse you have been very active, but unfortunately contributed nothing of any value. Both yourself and Lox insist that these priests raped and abused young boys and young adult males because there were no girls available.....nothing to do with homosexuality you say....yea right!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 03:57 PM Ake, whether I have contributed anything value to these threads or not is something that, with your locked-and-bolted mind, you are not comepetent to determine. I'll let others judge that. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Little Hawk Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:03 PM The absence (or scarcity) of available women can definitely contribute to a prevalence of homosexual behaviour among a group of men. There's plenty of historical evidence of that in prisons and on ships during the age of sail. Sex-starved men who are short of the possibility of female company will sometimes fix their attentions on other men (typically younger males who may superficially appear a bit more "effeminate", in that they have less body hair, more delicate features, etc). If so, does it really indicate that the men engaging in such activities are intrinsically homosexual? Or does it rather indicate that they are damned horny, and looking for some kind of outlet wherever they might find it? Once indulged in, of course, it could become a regular habit. That tends to happen with various types of sexual acts. There's an emotional basis to sex, and there's a purely physical basis. Both would play a significant part. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:10 PM "Both yourself and Lox insist that these priests raped and abused young boys and young adult males because there were no girls available" No, they did it because they are paedophiles. And I 've never said anything about adult males. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:17 PM Keith, As I am guessing you don't own books about homosexual promiscuity, would you mind providing a link to the stats you have provided. They look decidedly dodgy to me. The first link I found, (on a christian website) had this to say. "According to the researchers, 42.9 percent of homosexual men in Chicago's Shoreland area have had more than 60 sexual partners, while an additional 18.4 percent have had between 31 and 60 partners. All total, 61.3 percent of the area's homosexual men have had more than 30 partners, and 87.8 percent have had more than 15, the research found." This doesn't sound that different to the numbers you would find in any british nightclub. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 05 Dec 09 - 04:24 PM Oh .. hnag on ... it's ok keith ... I've found it. You forgot to include that John R Diggs MD said all this in an article that he wrote for the following website. http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html no bias there then. Furthermore, he does not say what study he is referring to or where his claims can be verified. In other words, he has merely given an unsubstantiated opinion. Unsubstantiated opinions do not serve as evidence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:28 PM I really take issue with the information in the excerpt posted by Keith A of Hertford at 05 Dec 09 - 07:49 a.m. The first statistics quoted are from 1978, and then again in 1984, after the AIDS epidemic had taken hold, at which time the rate of promiscuity had dropped significantly. That was twenty-five years ago, and a lot of changes can happen in that much time—especially when the individuals involved realize that their very lives may be at stake. As Samuel Johnson wrote, "Nothing concentrates one's mind so much as the realization that one is going to be hanged in the morning!" It is not just the certainty of imminent death, it is also the distinct possibility of dying of a lingering and debilitating illness that has no cure that can cause one to change one's behavior quite drastically. I am acquainted with a number of homosexual male couples—committed couples—who, a few of the men admit, had led pretty promiscuous lives until AIDS became rampant, and who then sought a stable, safe relationship with one person, which they also found far more emotionally satisfying. This is one of the factors involved in the current push for legal recognition of such same-sex relationships. Both Ake and GfS are vociferously opposed to legal recognition of such relationships and cite the spread of HIV/AIDS as the reason for their opposition (along with the specter of "perversion"), apparently unable or unwilling to acknowledge the obvious: Such recognition would encourage stable, "monogamous" relationships by granting the legal "perks" that heterosexual married couples have and cut down on promiscuity and the possible spread of HIV/AIDS. You'd think that if one were genuinely concerned with reducing the spread of disease, one would favor any measure which offers the possibility of doing so. As to the canard that gender orientation is a matter of choice, that has long since wound up in the waste basket. No competent psychiatrist holds with that anymore. Although the actual gene may not have been found yet, it is patently obvious that there is a genetic factor involved in gender orientation. It may be that the gene is being looked for in the wrong place. It is quite possible that the crucial gene (or combination of genes) is carried by the mother of a male who grows up to be homosexual. All fetuses start out as female, and those destined to be male (with the Y chromosome) need to receive an infusion of the necessary hormones at the appropriate time in the fetus's development. If the mother does not produce the necessary hormones at the appropriate time, or if the production of the hormones is insufficient, the child is born with a male body (the Y chromosome), but with some of the characteristics—including gender orientation—of a female. Now—let's hear that chorus of howls and squawks from Ake and GfS. Don Firth P. S. And lest Ake or someone pounces on my mention that I know a number of homosexual male couples and tries to make some kind of hay out of it, I know them because my wife of thirty-two years and I belong to a small, inner city church that is a signatory of the "Affirmation of Welcome" (scroll down), and as a result of the welcoming, accepting, and non-prejudicial spirit of the church, a number of gay people have gravitated to it. The congregation numbers around 250, about ten or twelve percent of whom (men and women) are gay. And the pastor has performed at least four marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples (whether the law recognizes them or not). One of the members of a committed same-sex couple is a fine writer and attends the writers' group that meets at Barbara's and my apartment once a month for mutual comment and critique of each other's writing. We know he and his partner quite well. P. P. S. By the way, Washington State Initiative 71, upholding the law recently passed by the Washington State Legislature, recognizing same-sex domestic partnerships, unlike California's Proposition 8, was passed by the voters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: mauvepink Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:36 PM Central's Affirmation of Welcome We affirm with the apostle Paul that in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female" (Galatians 3:28). Christ has made us one. As a community of God striving to be inclusive and open to diversity, we, the members of Central Lutheran Church, welcome all people to join us as we struggle to better understand the mysteries of God's teaching and purposes for us. Although our world can seem to be a place of alienation and brokenness, Christ calls us to reconciliation and wholeness. We are challenged tb Christ to care for, to love, to understand and to listen to each other, regardless of our race, age, gender, marital status, physical and mental abilities, sexual/affectional orientation, national origin, or economic status. We celebrate the special gifts that each has to bring! That is well worth posting as a whole piece in my opinion. Even as an agnostic it warms me immensely and I just love totally the idea of "sexual/affectional orientation" as covering ideas of sexuality. That is twice today I have been thrilled to read someone else's post on this thread. There is great hope for the future. Yes, indeed, it has already started :-) Thank you for pointing the affirmation out mp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:39 PM "Sex-starved men who are short of the possibility of female company will sometimes fix their attentions on other men (typically younger males who may superficially appear a bit more "effeminate", in that they have less body hair, more delicate features, etc). If so, does it really indicate that the men engaging in such activities are intrinsically homosexual?" Not according to Lox n' Don, LH. Now if these priests were to start writing about the dangers and problems associated with homosexuality on Mudcat, that would be a sure sign that they were "on side"!! :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:46 PM By the way Don, the figures state that most homosexuals are not interested in "marriage", the take up rate being very low; and that the average length of time in a homosexual union is from 18 to 24 months....this compares very unfavourably with heterosexual union or marriage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 05:55 PM Oh, yeah? WHOSE figures? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 06:32 PM Go look for them, even Lox is becoming computer literate so it shouldn't take you too long to get the hang of it. Seriously Don, they are all over the net. first one which came up |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 06:56 PM "Male-to-male sexual contact accounted for 53% (28,700) of estimated new HIV infections in 2006. CDC's historical trend analysis indicates that HIV incidence has been increasing steadily among gay and bisexual men since the early 1990s, confirming a trend suggested by other data showing increases in risk behavior, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and HIV diagnoses in this population." These figures are from CDC would one of you dreamers like to explain why this nice safe healthy lifestyle produces these figures? This question is the major reason that these threads exist, not really much to do with biblical teaching BTW the figure of 53% is rather conservative, I have seen others up to 71% |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,999 Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:03 PM "HIV risk factor: sexual orientation In the United States, the group with the highest rate of HIV infection is men who have sex with men (CDC, 2005). This group has the highest rates of unprotected anal sex, which is a behavioral risk factor for HIV transmission. In most regions of the world, however, the group with the highest rates of HIV is people who have heterosexual intercourse." from http://www.apositivelife.com/forasos/demographic-risk-factors-for-hiv.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:11 PM When the percentage of homosexuals in the population 2-3% is taken into account, the figures become horrific. New infections are falling worldwide, except within the homosexual population. Why does anal sex between men and women not produce these results? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:23 PM "Male-to-male sexual contact accounted for 53% (28,700) of estimated new HIV infections in 2006...." Hmmmm... maybe if same sex civil union was legal and TOLERATED, such relationships would last longer and reduce the spread of aids? After all, if it's just the gays spreading aids, something is fucking wrong. Go figure. What about a sexual ID card? Ya wanna fuck someone, ya gotta show em yer card. Straight, gay or bi. Bi-curious could be a sub-classification, but when you make up yer mind, ya gotta get a new card. And if you change yer mind and ya wanna get a new card, ya gotta take an aids test. Hey! I got an idea. Ya gotta get a new card every so often and you gotta pass the test! A whole new government department! And, since just about everybody wants to fuck, the revenue would be astronomic even with low fees. I am an idea man! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,999 Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:26 PM The figures are horrific regardless of whether the contact is homosexual or heterosexual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:38 PM Ake, I seem to be more computer—and internet—literate than you are. The "first one that came up" is the Family Research Council, a conservative, Christian right group and lobbying organization. It was formed in the United States by James Dobson in 1981 and incorporated in 1983. The group was designed to be a lobbying force for conservative legislation on Capitol Hill. In the late 1980s, the group officially became a division of Dobson's main organization, Focus on the Family, but after an administrative separation, FRC officially became an independent entity in 1992. Its function is to promote what it considers to be traditional family values. The FRC promotes socially conservative views on many issues, including divorce, homosexuality, and abortion. Your second link is to a site that hides its identification, but is funded by two American pharmaceutical companies, GlaxoSmithKline and Pfizer. You seem to be trying to push your notion that the AIDS virus is spontaneously generated by anal intercourse between two males. Which is to say the AIDS virus suddenly exists as a result of the act where it did not exist before! The possibility of such a thing as "spontaneous generation" is a Medieval belief that was finally laid to rest by Louis Pasteur in 1859. Sure, Ake, this stuff is all over the internet. You can also find passionate and powerful sounding arguments for the prophecies of Nostradamus, the End of the World on December 21, 2012 (12/21/12), that the moon landings never happened, they were all cobbled together at the Disney Studios, and that the earth is a) flat, and b) round, but hollow. And you posted a lot of your "statistics," carefully selected and edited by you on the other thread (Prop 8). You're just recycle your trash. Don't waste peoples' time with this crap! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:50 PM Indeed, I did not express myself very well in my last post. What I meant was, that when population percentages are taken into account, the incidence of hiv/aids and other STDs is massivly larger among homosexuals than heterosexuals. If this is the case, why are we still promoting homosexuality as "safe and healthy", why are we fostering our children into such a lifestyle? Why are we attempting to normalise this lifestyle by redefining marriage to accomodate it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 07:58 PM Don, we cross posted. Would you like to explain the CDC figures? The website I linked to was as you say, but the figures and articles on that website, were from emminent and independent doctors and health experts, including some from CDC, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: gnu Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:01 PM Achey... "safe and healthy".... it is safe as long as neither has aids. Same for the hets. You gotta think without the box. Oh, yeah... you can't see out of the box you are in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:07 PM If this is the case, why are we still promoting homosexuality as "safe and healthy", why are we fostering our children into such a lifestyle? Why are we attempting to normalise this lifestyle by redefining marriage to accomodate it? No one is promoting homosexuality as "safe and healthy" as an alternative to heterosexual sex, which is what you seem to by implying (that wouldn't sell, anyway). And with proper precautions, it is just as "safe and healthy" as heterosexual sex (even if it disgusts you, which is what this is all about). And who is fostering our children into such a lifestyle? No one I've ever heard of. And no one is trying to "redefine" marriage. "Include" does not mean "redefine." Plots and conspiracies. It's gotta be those Liberals!!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:08 PM "You seem to be trying to push your notion that the AIDS virus is spontaneously generated by anal intercourse between two males. Which is to say the AIDS virus suddenly exists as a result of the act where it did not exist before!" I know no more about "spontanious generation" than I do about why these homosexual/hiv figures should be as they are, please dont put words in my mouth. I would appreciate an explanation of these statistics from a supporter of homosexual practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,999 Date: 05 Dec 09 - 08:20 PM "I would appreciate an explanation of these statistics from a supporter of homosexual practice. " Most people here neither support nor detract from sexual practices as far as I can see. (Practice makes perfect.) If the issue is AIDS/HIV, then of course 'lifestyle' will come into it. If the issue is homosexuality, than that's another thing. Hence, I will hereby declare that I am not in favour of AIDS/HIV or any other infectious disease whether it is transmitted sexually or otherwise. I'm not homosexual, so basically that's got nothing to do with me. These arguments have been addressed ad nauseum, repeatedly, over and over again. Not one thing has changed. People aren't wearing condoms, HIV/AIDS rates are still too high and the heterosexual population is as at fault as the homosexual population. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:22 PM Mauvepink:"...Alas, the fact remains that homosexuality is not a choice. That said,......." No, it's something that people get into because a part of them did not develop and mature naturally, while they were 'emotionally focused' on something in their formative youth, that they could not let go of. USUALLY, resentment, often unforgiveness for a perceived wrong, by that parent, of the same gender as themselves, or an idealistic calling...and instead of overcoming it, coupled with feelings of inadequacies, they turn to others of the same sex, to deal with their sex drives. Like it or not, that is the truth. When politicized, it becomes a 'civil rights' issue, instead of a mental health issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: frogprince Date: 05 Dec 09 - 11:46 PM People become homosexual because they were focused on an idealistic calling during their formative youth, and they haven't overcome the effects of that?????????? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 09 - 12:32 AM Often not. If one is focused, to form an 'attitude', that one obsesses on, a lot goes by, that they miss, in maturing, while emotionally focused. True Story! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 06 Dec 09 - 12:38 AM In answer to GfS's latest spasm about same-sex orientation be a matter of choice, I reiterate a paragraph from one of my posts above: "Although the actual gene may not have been found yet, it is patently obvious that there is a genetic factor involved in gender orientation. It may be that the gene is being looked for in the wrong place. It is quite possible that the crucial gene (or combination of genes) is carried by the mother of a male who grows up to be homosexual. All fetuses start out as female, and those destined to be male (with the Y chromosome) need to receive an infusion of the necessary hormones at the appropriate time in the fetus's development. If the mother does not produce the necessary hormones at the appropriate time, or if the production of the hormones is insufficient, the child is born with a male body (the Y chromosome), but with some of the characteristics—including gender orientation—of a female."Boys who turn out to be gay often tend to display atypical behavior for boys long before puberty occurs and before they have any knowledge of or interest in sex. #### Whether you know what it was historically called or not, Ake, "spontaneous generation" is the belief that certain organisms can be generated by non-living matter or by decaying matter. After a pile of garbage sat somewhere for even a brief time, rats and mice, flies and all sorts of other bugs would appear. Somehow it didn't seem to occur to many—including, amazingly enough, Aristotle—that the vermin were attracted to the garbage, not generated by it. They believed that such vermin were spontaneously generated by the garbage. As cockamamie as this idea was, it was genererally believed until well after the Renaissance (note that Hamlet, feigning madness, cautions Polonius to not let his daughter walk in the sun, for ". . . if the sun breed maggots in a dead dog. . . ."), and even though many "natural historians" (early scientists) called it into question, it was finally shown, once and for all, to be bogus in 1859 by Louis Pasteur. If two men who do not carry the AIDS virus have homosexual relations, neither of them will contract AIDS as a result. That simply does not happen. Ake, whether you know what the concept is called or not, your constant harping on statistics that purport to indicate that homosexual activity by itself can bring about the sudden appearance of the AIDS virus is obviously what you mean to convey. And it is BOGUS, Ake, and your know it. Even if you don't know what to call it. Join the 21st century. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 09 - 12:49 AM Don First:'"Although the actual gene may not have been found yet, ....." Enough said!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 09 - 01:42 AM Don Froth is taking an unusually long time responding. He must be wearing out his computer looking for that gene. He'll come up with a 'study', probably funded by ACORN....maybe even Al Gore. But the FACT(remember those??), That which determines gender is found in the genetic code. Simply, 'not believing' the FACTS based on a political outlook, gives you NO SUBSTANTIATION to base your 'premise' on. Then you insist you are 'right', insult those who disagree with you, and call them 'bigots' and 'homophobic'. You, by nature of these tactics, insult the intelligence of any sound thinking person...including yourself!!(But you being a 'sound thinking person' is unsubstantiated too). I don't feel like 'debating' this with you any longer! See professional help! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 06 Dec 09 - 04:15 AM I don't understand your point Don. My stance has always been that the homosexual lifestyle causes massive rates of hiv/aids in those who adhere to it. It is therefore unsafe and unhealthy About why hiv aids starts in two healthy people I do not know, but apparently new outbreaks usually start among the homosexual community. The important bit is that homosexual practice unsafe and unhealthy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Jim Carroll Date: 06 Dec 09 - 04:53 AM There is something deeply offensive in witnessing two homophobes (one recently 'out-of-the- closet, the other not yet having the bottle to own up to being one) pontificating and moralising about the sexual orientation (whether chosen or genetic) of others. Mind your own ******* business. No doubt these two boyos would describe themselves as 'Christians' In Ireland we've had a bellyful of homophobic 'Christians' who have raped and abused their way through generations of our children, while at the same time pontificating on the 'sin' of homosexuality. They even managed to make hetrosexual sex something dirty and unpleasant in the eyes of their congregations - a'necessary evil'! In the end there is little to choose between racism and homophobia; both are judgemental, oppressive and dangerous, and both ruin lives. I suggest it is this pair who need to 'get help', or maybe a humanity transplant. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 09 - 04:59 AM Akenaton, If Don wants to believe that AIDS/HIV is not prevalent in the homosexual community, because his political bent says he can't admit that, he won't admit it... no matter what stats you quote from any non partisan, impartial medical source. If he wants to 'support' the homosexual community, for whatever reason, well, knock yourself out! Nobody on here would call you names, or think ill of you, for doing so. But, really, don't try to convince us that you can mix politics with science and come out with an impartial, accurate anything! That being said, Don is free to believe anything he wants to believe..and he does. Some on here are blaming Catholics, some blaming the Irish government, some might even get around to blaming the Irish, in general..so what?? I already got called names for saying that in the Catholic clergy, there were SOME 'bad apples'..and to one idiot on here, was reason to call me a bigot!! I think he wanted me to condemn the whole of the Catholic Church, probably because they are not pro homosexual!..Who knows?? Who cares?? You know better, I know better, and others know better. Some people just want to suck their thumbs, and not accept FACTS...and think you are picking on them, because you post them(facts). As far as the issue of the death penalty for homosexuals, that seems pretty far fetched...unless you are building up a new country, where the leaders see homosexuality as a destroying factor, such as may be the situation here. Those who are already in a decaying society, will of course, vehemently object. That being said, I personally DON'T SUPPORT the death penalty for homosexuals. But those who do, probably see them as a threat. What I really see, is that every time the subject is brought up, it gets heated, and the name calling begins, and of course, facts get ignored, and those presenting the facts, are labeled as bigots, haters of 'progress', 'old fashion', religious nuts, etc, etc.. However, in most of my posts, with understanding, I think I've shown more compassion,(one poster even remarked about it on the 'Prop 8' thread), than those who are trying to defend homosexuality...and most all the time, they don't even see it! ...but then, they are the ones who are still trying to justify their existence(homosexuals). Oh well, it was good to see you on here, trying to reason, with the hostile and unreasonable..... Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 09 - 05:01 AM 200!! Hey, I just read Jim Carrol's post, as we cross posted. A perfect example of what I just posted in my thread!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: mauvepink Date: 06 Dec 09 - 05:17 AM Guest from Sanity... you wrote "No, it's something that people get into because a part of them did not develop and mature naturally, while they were 'emotionally focused' on something in their formative youth, that they could not let go of. USUALLY, resentment, often unforgiveness for a perceived wrong, by that parent, of the same gender as themselves, or an idealistic calling...and instead of overcoming it, coupled with feelings of inadequacies, they turn to others of the same sex, to deal with their sex drives". My question to that would be: So all other animals who practice homosexuality also have the mental capacity and psychological abilities to go through this process too? I actually doubt that and I think, of all the studies there have been on behavioural imprinting and the triggers for sexuality, none have come up with empirical evidence to support it. The 'gay gene' search may not actually turn up a single gene, and it may not even be a consequence of being on a sex chromosome, as it could be the combined effects of several gene groups. Work is ongoing in that area. Most gay people I know, men and women, knew they were gay before they ever had an idea about sexual actions. One thing I would postulate though is that homosexuality is certainly NOT a mental illness. I, personally, still am of the opinion that the genetic model fits far better not just for human but in other animals too. Best wishes mp |
