why do singers take so long to start?

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 06:12 AM

i was just listening to Josh white's 25 minute discursive version of John Henry - Josh ambles playfully through half a dozen songs and playing styles, demonstrating total mastery of his material.

i just feel it should be more like that than amateur hour. and we should all aim for that. we don't achieve that - but its what we should aim for.

in England of course we have this problem - there is this huge difference between what traditional singers sound like, and what the public expect from professional entertainers. i guess its the same in America.

however the distance is so marked that 'serious' folksingers like Carthy try to emulate a traditional version of a song like Geordie, and its different from the sprightly version like Joan Baez, who presumably would regard herself as folk song populariser like Josh.

what i'm saying is that the professional examples in England are sometimes halting and ragged sounding. and i think people confuse the studied raggedness of Carthy and the late Peter Bellamy for being rough and ready.

personally, give me slick and professional every time. but thats probably cos i'm old and i grew up with the popularisers like Seeger PPM, Sonny and Brownie - largely American - i suppose. mind you we had our popularisers - the Spinners, The Corries, and much despised they were!

the English folkscene is a bit schizophrenic!

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 07:43 AM

It's half getting the composure together, and half waiting for the buggers at the back to shut up.

As for the book, it's a resource, it's a prompter, it's a comfort/crutch to hold onto... Several blows to the head nearly 30 years ago means I don't remember things like I used to, and good old tempus fugiting doesn't help. I've seen the likes of Roy Bailey and Martin Carthy freeze in the middle of songs and lose them, or consult books, so I'm pretty sure, it's not going to stop the world if I do it.

The faffing about with pages, usually means someone just sang that particular song before I got my turn and I have to find another, or else the one I had chosen to sing is not the most appropriate, doesn't fit the mood of the room or is just plain wrong for the state of throat.

LTS

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 09:10 AM

"The faffing about with pages, usually means someone just sang that particular song before I got my turn and I have to find another, or else the one I had chosen to sing is not the most appropriate, doesn't fit the mood of the room or is just plain wrong for the state of throat."

But that's what I mean by preparation. If you expect to sing say 3 songs during an evening, don't practice only these but prepare a few more. Then if you have to change your planned repertoire for any reason you're ready with an alternative. No faffing necessary.

If someone have genuine memory problems and has to use a book, then they should learn to use it so it is merely a prompt and not (as so often happens) a barrier between singer and audience. However I doubt that most book users have medical reasons.

No one is infallible, and everyone makes mistakes from time to time and forgets words. It happens to experienced singers, including professionals, far more often than you realise, because they have learned how to cover it up. Most of the time you wouldn't know. This is another performing skill which cannot be acquired if you rely on a book.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 09:24 AM

I agree wth Howard, but to quote Mandy Rice Davies, I would wouldnt I.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 09:47 AM

Again, it's not so much the occasional glance a a book that I find irritating (providing there's no pregnant pause while the glancer hunts for the correct line!). No, it's those f***ing enormous black music stands (the huge ones built to WW3 standards, with the holes in them) that seem to have sprouted up in every performing-space nowadays. These seem to be a device for nervous people to hide behind, even those who sing unaccomperated.

Before I burn the books, I'd take a burning torch to those f***ing monstrous stands.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 10:00 AM

Young folkies moan about old folkies. Old folkies moan about everything.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 11:16 AM

Moaning is a right earned by those who have lived long, done much and seen even more. A bit like the pension. 👍😎

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 12:14 PM

Aye and some moaning is gold plated, copper bottomed and index linked 😎

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 09:30 PM

"Young folkies moan about old folkies. Old folkies moan about everything."

Given a sufficient number of orbits around the sun, young folkies become old folkies, and comments about old folkies may come back to bite one on the behind....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Deckman
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 11:43 PM

To quote one of my most favorite song writers ... TOM PAXTON ...

"This world goes round and round,
What goes up must come down,
   Green leaves will turn to brown,
    It all comes back to you,

You find what ever you feel,
You loose whatever you steal,
   Just like spinning wheel,
    It all comes back to you,"

    This world goes round and round ... "

bob(deckman)nelsom

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 08:16 AM

sometimes it comes forwards to you....

other times it sort of mooches sideways...

them old folksongs are only in your head

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 10:47 AM

"Old folkies moan about everything?"

Not necessarily, Megan. I can name you at least four cheerful and pleasant old folkies.

I bet that if you did research, you would find that the people who complain about everything * started out life as fussy babies.

They went on to become whiny kids, sulky adolescents, dour middle-aged people and now, crabby oldsters.
=============
* everything: for example, complaining about the design of somebody's music stand, for pete's sake. Here's a person who has completely forgotten to be interested in the music to come.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 01:19 PM

Love you too, Leeneia... 😘

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 02:28 PM

'everything: for example, complaining about the design of somebody's music stand, for pete's sake. Here's a person who has completely forgotten to be interested in the music to come.'

Not sure that trumps people complaining coffee served hot is a dangerous food that should have ice added. He who is without sin...

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 03:23 PM

"Not sure that trumps people complaining coffee served hot is a dangerous food that should have ice added."

They cannot be serious, man! :-)

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Musket
Date: 27 Aug 15 - 03:33 AM

I moan about music.

I left my local folk club at a record 2.00am this morning and I have missed an early meeting I should be at. Frankly, I daren't drive..

Talking of coffee....

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Musket
Date: 27 Aug 15 - 03:33 AM

I moan about music.

I left my local folk club at a record 2.00am this morning and I have missed an early meeting I should be at. Frankly, I daren't drive..

Talking of coffee....

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 Aug 15 - 08:35 AM

This thread is getting almost as long as some of the songs....

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Musket
Date: 27 Aug 15 - 09:34 AM

I appear to have developed an echo.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 05:07 AM

......or the intros and the faffing......and the echoes.....

Tuesday night session, I did a song I hadn't done for ages, hadn't planned to do, hadn't revised beforehand, hadn't brought lyrics for.
Only decided on it when I heard the previous singer's choice of song: one followed on the other. Forgot one line, made something up to fill the void, finished the song.
Now can I have my gold star please?

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 11:14 AM

I'd give you one if I knew how.

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 04:41 PM

Congratulations tattie !

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 08:05 PM

A virtual one will do, thanks,

Subject: RE: why do singers take so long to start?
From: Stanron
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:46 PM

There is for many of us the performers dichotomy.

You come off stage. Nobody threw anything, nobody threw up. It wasn't a disaster, it might have been a moderate success. In retrospect it was fantastic. You come off stage re-assured and confident that you can do this! So you practice and invest your time in the next performance.

Then there's the other side. It starts as the slightest niggle and grows as the date gets nearer. The 'It might not be as good as last time.' quickly turns into 'I'm not sure I really want to do this.' Just before you go on it's developed into a raging 'Whatever gave me the idea that I wanted to go on in front of this lot?' and perhaps even 'The last thing I want to do is perform!'

And then you are on. Everyone is looking. It's all gone quiet. You shuffle through the folder, maybe tune up the guitar, anything to delay the dreaded moment, until you can't put it off any longer and you start.

You come off stage. Nobody threw anything, nobody threw up. It wasn't a disaster, it might have been a moderate success. In retrospect it was fantastic. Of course you are going to do it again.

Or is it just me?