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2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act

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GUEST,Pseudonymous 30 Dec 19 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 30 Dec 19 - 03:37 PM
The Sandman 30 Dec 19 - 04:26 PM
The Sandman 30 Dec 19 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 30 Dec 19 - 05:28 PM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 04:00 AM
The Sandman 31 Dec 19 - 05:40 AM
Jack Campin 31 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM
Steve Gardham 31 Dec 19 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 31 Dec 19 - 10:47 AM
Steve Gardham 31 Dec 19 - 10:53 AM
Steve Gardham 31 Dec 19 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Pseudonymous 31 Dec 19 - 12:38 PM
Iains 31 Dec 19 - 01:24 PM
Jim Carroll 03 Jan 20 - 06:43 AM
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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 03:28 PM

I enjoyed reading the post by Vic. Sandra and Sandman are among those who had positive experiences, which is always nice to hear about.


But I am afraid the more I hear about the application of Laban, the more it sounds like 'mumbo jumbo' or some sort of metaphor. This may be because of the lack of examples.

Kerr's remark that it is about 'the way the voice moves through the air' adds a new element to it, as Laban was about the way the body moves through space. But I still have a gut feeling that this has to be in some sense about how the melody is interpreted, be it in terms of dynamics or tempo or ornamentation (or lack of it). Quite happy to be shot down in flames or told I am making a 'haymes' of it, but ideally by somebody capable of providing an explanation related to some examples and of recognising ornamentation when it crops up.

It is something that interest me: I have tried using google to get more information but can only find a few papers suggesting that Laban can be a useful way of training conductors to use body language to guide an orchestra. I'm inclining to a 'metaphorical' analysis. Not saying I don't believe it could be useful, just saying the concept cannot really be got across without examples.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 03:37 PM

I know that MacColl did a lot for trade union activity including the miners. Having acknowledged that, I was taken aback to read that he did not do anything about the Grunwick dispute, which was a high profile and important one. Harker thinks that this was because MacColl liked to support stuff he thought was more muscular manual work, with colliers as a prime example. I did think that this was quite a surprising omission on his part. I think Seeger did write something relating to this, for which all credit to her.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 04:26 PM

Ewan left a fine collection of self penned songs.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 04:38 PM

ha ha no my experience was not positive ,
however my brother had a positive experience he was allowed to use their books to do research , they kindly allowed him to use their house and library, and let him know where the spare key was so he could let himself in, a very helpful attitude


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 30 Dec 19 - 05:28 PM

Sorry if I misrepresented you, Sandman! Well, I probably won't be here until the New Year, so happy New Year to all and thanks again for an interesting discussion.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 04:00 AM

@Pseudonymous. A bit of thread drift. "or told I am making a 'haymes' of it,"

This is a particularly Irish Expression like "yoke", Hames can easily be attached to a horse collar upside down, hence the expression. I was wondering if it is in common usage elsewhere. It is a few decades since I last played with such a yoke.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 05:40 AM

iains, well spotted, so Pseudonymous is IRISH.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 06:01 AM

I've heard it in Scotland, though not that often.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 09:44 AM

Dick
Thanks for the heads-up on the Fakesong review. A lot of sense in there.
Happy New Year
Steve


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 10:47 AM

How things go round in circles! A bit of digging reveals that the Fakesong review was linked in the first post on Mudcat thread ID 157878 to which Steve Gardam posted a number of responses. It was posted by Phil Edwards, who wrote the review in question.

When I put 'making a hames of it' I was quoting another post in this thread on the topic of Laban. The expression may be Irish, but the noun 'hames' as part of the equipment relating to horses goes back in English to at least the 13th century and mirrors a similar word in Old Dutch. I do not know whether a similar word appears in Gaelic. My family believed they had Irish antecedents, but I have researched back to the mid 19th century without discovering anybody not born in England. Had I been Irish I might have pointed out how ironic it was that MacColl drew on the poetry of Edmund Spencer, who played a part in Queen Elizabeth l's campaigns in Ireland. Wikipedia explains his views on Ireland. https://celt.ucc.ie//published/E500000-001/

I'm a nobody who happens to be interested in folk music and the various narratives that grew up around it.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 10:53 AM

From one nobody to another, if we knew roughly where you were based we might be inclined to offer you loans of books you haven't got.

As far as my previous history on MC goes, my excuse is I'm 72 and the grey matter is beginning to wear thin.

Happy New Year
Steve


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 11:23 AM

Reread the whole of that thread. Very interesting. A pity it fizzled out so quickly.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 12:38 PM

Oh on thinning grey matter, tell me about it!


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Iains
Date: 31 Dec 19 - 01:24 PM

@ Psuedonymous. Thanks for the response. It is an unusual expression with a bit of a mixed etymology. As a kid I used to see brewery drays delivering in south Londom and the local Steptoe was still using a horse and cart in my teens. Apparently road rage killed off Youngs Brewery(Wandsworth S.London) horse deliveries just over 20 years ago. I still have a couple of pairs of hames, the mice destroyed the collars years ago. Having made a hash of hames in the past,it brings back memories
Apologies for disrupting the thread,my curiosity overcame me.


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Subject: RE: 2007 Ewan MacColl Bio - Class Act
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 20 - 06:43 AM

Just want to clear up something from the closed thread

Brian
I didn't suggest that the discussion on The Critics group, just that it was wildly inaccurate and totally unrepresentative of what took place
I hope to deal with this in full later, either in this thread or on a clean slate
Happy New Year
Jim

    I think this thread has run its course. If you'd like to discuss the "Class Act" book further, please start another thread. Thanks.
    -Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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