Gardyloo - folk music magazine

Subject: Gardyloo
From: Suzy T.
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 11:33 AM

Hi there,
Does anyone have any of the issues of Gardyloo, which was (as I understand) a mimeographed folk music magazine that Lee Hoffman put out in NYC in the 1950s? I think it only ran for 5 or 6 issues. If you have any of these, or know someone who does, please contact me either here or off -list.

Lee Hoffman, who died this past February, is someone that I wish I had met. If you're interested in the 1950's NY folk music scene, you may want to visit http://www.cvil.wustl.edu/~gary/Lee/bio-folknik.html

Thanks,
Suzy Thompson

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: johnross
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM

I'll bet the American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress has copies. As you know, the staff there are very helpful.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 01:47 PM

From a search at the LOC

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 01:51 PM

There also seems to be copies available here.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 01:57 PM

According to the Library of Congress, they are available as Reference from the American Folklife Center:

LC Control No.: sv 97029348
Type of Material: Serial (Periodical, Newspaper, etc.)
Main Title: Gardyloo.
Published/Created: New York, NY.
Related Names: Unk
Current Frequency: Unknown
Notes: For holdings call the American Folklife Center, x7-6590.


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CALL NUMBER: Not Available
-- Request in: Reference - American Folklife Center (Jefferson, LJG53)

-- Status: Not Charged

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 02:03 PM

The link I gave in my post of 1:47 is not working as it appears that the page has a time component but it showed the same info as Amos' post.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:58 AM

Lee created Gardyloo after her previous folk fanzine, Caravan, became so successful that it became a nuisance dealing with the advertisers. Gardyloo was very New-York-Folk-Scene oriented, with contributors such as Dave Van Ronk, Winnie Winston, Roy Berkely, and yours truly. To some, it appeared to be dedicated to the New Lost City Ramblers, but it really wasn't.

Lee was a very familiar face on the scene back then, and a good friend.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:50 AM

Jo Meisner, a friend of Dick's and mine, says she may have some copies around. She will dig and advise me if she finds any copies.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: Suzy T.
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:23 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I emailed Lee Hoffman's nephew, who maintains her web pages, but he did not have any copies. If Jo Meisner finds any copies, let me know. I have always been fascinated by old Sing Outs, Little Sandy Review, all that kind of stuff.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:57 PM

Just to introduce an explanation of the term "Gardyloo". It came from Scotland, particularly Edinburgh, before the introduction of flush toilets. The denizens of that fine city would kindly shout "Gardyloo!" to warn fellow citizens in the narrow, cobbled streets below that they were about to throw the contents of their shit buckets out of the window.
The term is a corruption of the French "Gare de l'eau" (beware of the water).
How considerate of them.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: Nerd
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:50 PM

Just in case you want to call, the correct number for the American Folklife Center's reference desk is 202-707-5510. We're staffed from 8:30 to 5:00 PM weekdays.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 12:13 AM

Billy-
I think that the French was Gardez L'eau. and I think it was a brilliant name for a folk music fanzine.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 01:21 AM

Dick,
    Your explanation doesn't take into the laguage changes in 200 years. Here is the supposed source of the expression.
Etymology: Philippe Auguste, who ruled France from 1180-1223, according to legend, received the contents of a chamber pot on his head while strolling through the streets of Paris. The upshot of this misfortunate incident was that all residents of Paris began to exclaim, "gare à l'eau!" (look out for the water!) before dumping their dirty washwater (and more sordid liquids) out of their windows onto the streets.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: maeve
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:18 AM

Gently, Guest Billy. Dick made a mild suggestion, and he pointed us back to the topic at hand. Here are but a few links for those who'd like to chase words. The rest can now return to the aforementioned folk music magazine and the many helpful posts.

a helpful link

and a second look

a third,

and a fourth.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:34 AM

In Dublin, when the ubiquitous Guinness barrels were being offloaded from trucks to street, the 'stillionman (another good word) would often call out "Mind the Holy Water!" as a warning to passing pedestrians.

Regards

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 01:06 PM

Dick, et al, (Dammit, the Latin scholars wil be getting into it now!)
I agree that Gardyloo is an excellent name for a folk magazine. I suppose Dirty Linen's "Tossing out the fish" column is a subtle salute to this magazine.
Martin, (I liked "'stillionman") how do you say "Mind the holy water" in gaelic?

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 07:50 PM

Billy

You don't - the truly blessed need no warning!

Regards
p.s. But "Seachain an t-uisce beannaithe!" would do for openers...

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: Nerd
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 01:23 AM

Interestingly, the French Canadian folk-rock band Lougarou, whose name was a homophone for loup-garou ("werewolf") had to change their name to Garolou, which was a homophone for "gare au loup," beware of the wolf.

Using the same syntax as the dictionary maeve linked to earlier, this would be rendered as "Ware Wolf!" So they went from "werewolf" to "ware wolf" without even trying!

Seriously, to most french-speakers, Gardez L'eau would not make sense in the context. It means, more or less, "keep the water." So I think Billy's etymology is close to the correct one (as does maeve's dictionary).

Billy is not entirely correct as to why, however. The language changes in 200 years don't come into it. Today, as then, "gare" means "watch out," "beware." Nowadays to say "beware of the water," you'd be more likely to say "gare a l'eau," than "gare de l'eau," but people also use "se garer" as a verb, in which case it takes "de." So "gare de l'eau" is not so big a stretch in today's French...

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 03:01 AM

Curtailed from ' regardez l'eau ' methinks.

eric le rouge

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: Nerd
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 09:58 AM

Actually, it comes from gardez le loup. In certain obscure dialects of French, "loup" (wolf) was slang for a turd. So when you threw your wastewater out the window, you told those below they were welcome to keep the turd.

Seriously, "regardez L'eau" means "look at the water," not "look out for the water." If you were to "regard l'eau," you'd get it in the face.

"Gare de l'eau," "gare a l'eau" and "gare de l'eau" remain the most likely etymologies, and indeed "gare l'eau" was used this way in France, as the dictionary maeve links to makes clear. We can keep throwing out other theories (as it were), but it won't change this...

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 10:38 AM

Oh !

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: GUEST,DonD
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 04:04 PM

Odd words, their meanings and derivations (particularly imaginative folk etymology) has always fascinated me, so I love the game of "Dictionary' with which I hope you are all familiar. I never knew that anyone but my family and friends knew how to play it!

In my innocence, I considered the idea of making a buck by creating a packaged game and the first name I came up with was 'Gardyloo'. The other name choice was 'Look That Up in Your Funk & Wagnall's". Then I discovered that the game was played widely and I now have game-specific dictionaries. Never heard of the magazine, though.

Subject: RE: Gardyloo - folk music magazine
From: GUEST,Ellen Stekert
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 01:30 PM

I will be listing some of these, plus some of the earlier "Caravan" magazine, on eBay in the next few days. I was part of that early 1950s NYC folk music scene -- so keep my eBay listings in sight since I'm auctioning off most of my collection. On eBay I am ejs1. that's my seller name. Cheers!