BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?

Subject: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM

I understand that all the Starbucks everywhere closed for three hours today for some reason or another.

I didn't care -- did you?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:48 PM

Ah! Apparently it was only in the US and was a vast teach-in for Starbucks' employees.

I still didn't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:58 PM

I can't even think about Starbucks coffee without getting indigestion. In fact, I think I'll take a Tums right now. Crunch, chomp, smack. Mmmmm.... Orange. My favorite.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:58 PM

Viva Starbucks!
Our coffee culture has been much improved by their innovations.

Now I can sip on a bold while shopping in Safeway if I don't have time for a refueling stop. An ideal pairing of two great American institutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:59 PM

No, man. I don't flippin' care. They are a buncha flippin' loosers! NObody that I know ever goes to STrawbucks. I never have. Strawbucks is for retreads and people that wear them little coloured skarfs and drink Lattay! If Tim Hortons closed fer 3 hours, tho, then I would be flippin' worried, eh?

- Shane

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 09:59 PM

I always thought Starbuck's coffee tasted like it was burnt. I also refuse to adopt their language (not small, medium, large, but large, grande and another word). I just refuse to become trendy. I don't have a Starbucks near me, but there are plenty of Dunkin' Donuts should I ever forget how to make coffee at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:00 PM

Starbucks? Is he associated with Shatner?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, living in Richmond, Maine, without a Starbucks

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:06 PM

Staff Development for Starbucks employees? Those are reel perfessionals, there.... What, continuing ed credits for crema?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:13 PM

Furthermore, If I'm gonna spend the kind of money Starbucks wants for a cup of coffee, I want to fuckin' get high from it. For what they want for a Macho Grande Whatever you can buy a hit of blotter acid and lose your mind for eight hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Greg B
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:13 PM

Well, props to Starbucks for being one of the few US employers to even
offer health insurance to their part-timers. In fact, I understand a
number of 'artists' work at Starbucks part-time just to qualify. On
the other hand they've resisted mightily the efforts of the IWW to
unionize them.

As to the closing, it reminded me of an Air Force or Naval Aviation
'stand down' in which after some sort of incident or accident everyone
stops flying for a day of re-education. We did that in the CAF a few
years back after a bunch of guys managed to de-restore a few of our
WW2 era fighters and bombers, some of them getting out of the shallow
end of the gene-pool in the process. I was kind of thinking "what is
that, an espresso machine or a flippin' F/A-18?"

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:19 PM

Not being a coffee drinker, I didn't notice. I understand that some folks refer to them as charbucks, because of the charred coffee taste. The four cups of coffee I have ingested over the years to be polite have not won me over.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:24 PM

Starbucks is trying to gain back some lost business owing to high prices (they're restructuring the price stuff) and I think they have lost control of their quality control, hence the training.

I personally could give a shit less but like Shane I will kill to save Tim Horton's. Karen and I are both hooked on Tim's coffee (the local drivethrough calls us by name) and the dog is nuts for Apple Fritters. Most of their menu of food type items is half assed okay but the friggin' coffee is GREAT!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:24 PM

Actually, I make my own at work. I buy from Peerless in San Fransisco or Heritage out of Juneau. Right now I have Peerless.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:29 PM

Charlie- living without Starbucks? You poor, deprived man! Maybe a Second Cup will open.

Is Horton's still alive? When Wendy's took over, there was a chance that their terrrible doughnuts and weak coffee would improve, but Wendy's gave up and spun them off. Now it's Canadian again, but with tentacles in Ohio, Michigan, and some other sucker states.

Second Cup is the best Canadian operation. It is growing rapidly and has expanded as far as Istanbul. The only viable alternative to Starbuck's. Good coffee (but very few types for sale), and good sticky buns.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:31 PM

I went into a coffee store here a couple years ago and asked for some Kenya AA in whole bean. The kid at the counter had never heard of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:41 PM

Here in Calgary, Starbuck's coffee is the same price as that in any other good place. Second Choice is the same price.

Peerless is good. A great variety of coffee and tea. Used it in California. Don't sell to Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 10:44 PM

IF you ever go to San Jose, stop in at Barefoot Coffee Roasters -- its a whole different experience, kids who really know their beans and plantations and flavor overtones. And expert baristas, too!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Feb 08 - 11:55 PM

I dunno. I can get a good cup of coffee at Starbucks, although it's way too expensive. I have nothing against Starbucks, but I usually opt for a 50-cent senior coffee at McDonald's. Even McDonald's has switched to making pretty good coffee, and I think that's due to the competition from Starbuck's.
Last time I got coffee at Starbuck's, I was so proud of myself for being able to use three words to get what I wanted: "Small latte, please."

I refuse to order tall, vented, and granada, or whatever they call their sizes. How come "tall" means "small"?

But I like their coffee, and their atmosphere is pretty darn nice for a chain store.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:19 AM

Obviously Q wouldn't know good coffee it was poured in his lap and puddled up under is friggin' ass. Tim's food is pretty marginal and the donuts are pathetic even if my Weimaraner is nuts for the fritters. But the coffee is the best.....The Best ....Do you HEAR????    THE BEST!!!!!!

THE BEST GAWDAMMIT,THE BEST.........

...................gotta' layoff the caffeine.................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:36 AM

They are the MacDonalds of the coffee bars...high prices low quality sameness...I prefer the small locally owned shops myself....better stuff cheaper....and I feel like I can sit there for an hour or two and read and drink coffee or write...Starbucks I always feel rushed. That being sai...I have no idea why them being closed for a few hours tonight was so news worthy....you would think that with everything else going on there would be something more important to inform us about.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:07 AM

Should we not retitle this thread - did you notice?

I'd be happy never to see another Stealbucks ever again... as a TV advert for a documentary is pointing out at the moment on UK TV, what they charge for one tall latte is what the coffee worker earns in a week.

And just what the f*^k is a 'latte' anyway? Whatever happened to 'milky coffee', 'frothy coffee' and 'rocket fuel' anyway?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: open mike
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:10 AM

If given the choice of a large chain store or a locally owned coffee place I try to support the local folks. I often hear (when charities are asking for donations) just think of the price you pay for coffee and donate that to us..I guess people pay $5 for a cup ?? I make a pot at home and take a thermos of it with me when I go somewhere, if I think I am going to be needing a drink of coffee. I get beans in bulk 2-5 # bags so usually do not buy it by the cup. with all the cups and pots and gallons of coffee being made in the world every day, how can there be enough beans (and enough land to grow them) to go around?!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:04 AM

Couldn't give a tinkler's fart.

Shit-awful coffee. I'd as soon drink instant.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: John J
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:07 AM

That must have cost them LOAD$.

JJ

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 05:12 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,LTS still pretending
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 05:14 AM

Bummocks...


"how can there be enough beans (and enough land to grow them) to go around?!" Simple, there isn't - which is why we're losing acres of rain forest and rare animal habitat every week.

I just gave up drinking coffee.... saved a fortune.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 05:27 AM

No offence meant to our American friends but I am sick of the way that big American corporations have taken over our British high streets - I boycott them all!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:07 AM

No I don't care.
Starbucks places are scruffy, the stuff they sell is crap.
TIM HORTON'S - THE TRUE PATH!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:14 AM

I think I've explained this to you all before, but one more time perhaps is in order.

The "invention" of Starbucks happened when a broker speculating on "coffee futures" ended up stuck with actually buying an enormous quantity when everyone else realized that it was burnt beyond use for the then existing commercial joe-istas.

Forming an alliance with a down-and-out wannabe entrepreneur, together they realized that if the doctored it up with enough milk/cream/syrup/froth and told people it was something new, and especially if they charged an outrageous price for it, the "yuppie generation" (FKAGB^*) would snatch it up eagerly.

They succeeded far beyond even their own wildest dreams - because people are stupid. (Always a safe bet, but in this enterprise yuppiedom outdid itself.)

Development problems plagued the early days of Starbucks when they found it difficult to convince coffee suppliers that they really did want to buy burnt beans but that hurdle has been (apparently) overcome.

If you happen to be blessed with a loved one who believes that "spending money extravagantly" is a treat, and have given up searching for the unattainable reason why you still love them, and hang around despite not understanding why, you likely will be forced, occasionally, to partake.

As bad as Starslush is, the occasional accidental encounter with "imitators" should quickly convince you that there really is a degree of skill and art in serving it up as they do at Starbucks. (The "coffee tent" at WVA for the past 8 or 9 years is a prime example of the "less comptetent immitator." He tries, but ...)

As the three hour shutdown was advertised as a "training session" it would be nice to assume that the intent was to assure that Starbucks barristas are properly trained in the art of making bad coffee taste less than really bad. Unfortuntately, my assumption would be that the main subject of the lesson plans was

            SALESMANSHIP AND MARKETING.

But then I've been accused of being something of a cynic.

^*FKAGB = "Formerly Known As Greedy Bastards" (a common definition of "yuppie").

John

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:52 AM

Come on John, what would an American know about good coffee? The stuff you drink is cold, weak and insipid - what my old mum used to describe as "Water Bewitched" :-)

Now if you want REAL coffee for Real Men, Italy's the place, followed closely by France. Those guys really DO know what coffee's about. :-)

But none of it can compare with a nice cup of Earl Grey with a slice of lemon, or Darjeeling with a drop of skinny milk.

(Exit, ducking and weaving.............) LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:16 AM

Agree about Italian coffee, Backwoodsman; they do indeed make the best, just don't know how to enjoy it. Greeks do know: sprawled over three chairs at the seaside, puffing away on your favourite smoke. It's what's known as a Greek worker's breakfast.

The French do indeed come second, not a close one either. Their steaming bidets of far-too-milky coffee are ideal for dunking. But they don't know how to enjoy it. The Greeks do: slouched over the balcony railings, dunking home made bikkies, talking to the neighbours and dripping coffee on passers-by. It's what's known as a Greek housewife's breakfast.

Starbucks - pah! All standardisation achieves in food and drink preparation and delivery, is to guarantee a minimum standard and eliminate the possibility of excellence.

George - living in Chesham, the first town in the UK (that I am aware of) to have caused its local MacDonald's to up sticks and piss off.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:30 AM

Yo' de man George!
Aaaaaahh, wonderful memories of holidays in Greece.........those guys know how the world should be!
All the best fella,
J

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:49 AM

Well, we have Bettys here in Harrogate and they are simply the best!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 07:49 AM

First off........Starbucks is overpriced and inferior qualithy. Second off, a great American coffee is anything produced by Melitta USA .... in Cherry Hill, NJ. They pay fair wages, have a pension plan, excellent conditions, a great benefit plan, and are covered by a union contract. And the product is wonderful. I also have one of their pod coffee makers which makes a very respectable cuppa.

I have tried McDonald's latte, not bad. But overpriced.

'Spaw...... hand me my shotgun....... I need to put a load of no. 6 chill in the arse end of the guy from England who thinks he's a backwoodsman. That one that's tryin' to make a getaway. After I drop 'im I need to find out if he has ever enjoyed the wonder of a pot of Eight O'Clock coffee made by shovelling the grounds into a pot, filling it with water and boiling it over a fire? Then pouring it slow to leave the grounds in the pot. Backwoodsman, my arse.

hhhhaaaaaaarrrrrruuuuummmmmmpppppphhh.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Becca72
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 08:55 AM

I couldn't give less of a shit if every Starbuck's on the planet closed for good. They most definitely over-roast the beans. Give me a cuppa Green Mountain Coffee Roasters from the bakery on the 1st floor of my apartment building any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:01 AM

Mick, the name came from a sequence of insults hurled at me, and others from Lincolnshire, on the 'Cat by a very unpleasant British lady. I used to be someone else, but decided that if she thought Lincolnshire was the backwoods, that's good enough for me.

I'm no more a Backwoodsman than you're an Oirishman! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:01 AM

But I do like a good leg-pull! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:02 AM

Right on, Mick. But I'd use cold water in a clean pot, boil it up over the coals of a campfire made from either oak or hickory, and toss in a handfull of grounds. Move it to a warm spot and let it brew for a while. When you just can't wait any longer, move it off the warm and put in a tiny pinch of salt to settle the grounds. Pour a cup and enjoy it. No milk, no sugar -- if you want a candy bar, buy a candy bar.

Or just open the c-rats accessories pack, pull out the packet of instant coffee and dissolve it in a canteen cup of water you heated over a pinch of C-4.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:03 AM

******ROFLMAO******

Glad you got it, SJ.....

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:09 AM

Shit, Rap, I wasn't goin' to tell them perzackly how to brew it up.....next thing you know, them there Brits will be tellin' us how this recipe was originally from an old English tune and it was usurped by us Yanks...

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:24 AM

No, it's a pagan custom usurped by expansionist Romans. ;~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:33 AM

Well, Mick, if the Brits want to make C-rat coffee I ain't gonna stop 'em. I ain't gonna drink any more of it either.

Had a 2LT once who had never really experienced C rations. So for a breakfast in the field he chose -- scrambled eggs! He filled his canteen cup with hot water so he could make hot chocolate, and of course that didn't dissolve. He opened the can of eggs and...well, he couldn't take the grayish-yellow so he tossed them. The crackers in the can were crushed to crumbs, the jam was moldy, and even the chocolate bar was too hard to bite into. He took a cigarette from the little pack and all the tobacco fell out the end.

His breakfast consisted of hot water with cocoa powder floating on top and two small pieces of gum, all flavored by the laughter of those around him.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:48 AM

Well, maybe I just like well roasted beans. I like Starbucks; I can take my 18 ounce traveling cup in there and get it filled up for $1.60 - the usual price of a "tall". And I can (and sometimes do) sit in their overstuffed chairs for an hour or so and read. They do charge for their WiFi connection, though.

I once knew (to speak to) the guy who started Starbucks. He worked in a bean shop - maybe he was a partner - just off of First Avenue in Seattle, about a half block from the Federal Building where I worked, and I bought coffee there to take home. He took some beans up the hill to the Pike Place Market and talked a cafe owner there into letting him sell fresh ground and roasted coffee rather than the Maxwell House (or whatever) that came in the 50 pound bags. The lattes and other crap - and the "entrepreneur" that took Starbucks national and then international - came later, in the mid-1980s.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:54 AM

Tim Hortons?   Are you kidding me? Some of the worst donuts and coffee that I've ever experienced!!! Blecch!   Give me Dunkin Donuts anytime of the day or night!!!

:On the other hand they've resisted mightily the efforts of the IWW to unionize them."
Well, if Starbucks can offer the same benefits to their employees without the need for a union, doesn't that serve the same purpose? The idea of unions were to better the working conditions. If the conditions meet the employees need, is the union necessary?   Just food for thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:09 AM

Your observation actually covers several issues, Ron.

First, if a company is providing decent benefits, a safe workplance, and the workers have voice in the workplace (the #1 reason workers organize, btw), then there likely won't be a union organizing drive.

Second, which deals with necessity, my opinion is that workers are always better off with a collectively bargained contract which guarantees the voice, the conditions, the wages and benefits.

Third deals with consumers. If one believes that the mission that unions serve is important and supports it philosophically, then when there is a choice to shop union or non union, they will shop union.

But......... let's not turn this into a debate on unions (not that you are,btw, but others might), rather let it remain with Starbucks and coffee. We can start another thread if we need to.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: jeffp
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:26 AM

When I was doing (American) Civil War Reenactments, the Lieutenant would make the coffee so strong that he didn't have to pour it. You just set your mug down next to the pot and it would climb out the spout and dive into the mug.

BTW, he would sprinkle eggshells into the pot and swing it by the bail to settle the grounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:26 AM

One question: What or who is Starbucks?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

Shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:37 AM

Good points Mick. I've always been pro-union, my grandparents were involved with union organizing of Pennsylvania coalmines around the turn of the 20th century, and I do try to buy union made whenver possible.   I just throw that out because of the earlier comment as it stands with Starbucks. As you say, debating the current need for unions is probably fodder for another thread.

I always make Starbucks my first stop whenever I need paint thinner.

There is a person who I would like to mention. His name is Ahrre Mahos and he runs a concert series here in NJ called "Coffee With Conscious". It grew out of his business Ahrre's Coffee Roasters which sells great fair trade coffee. Local guys like Ahrre exist all over the country, and Starbucks - good or bad - becomes a tough competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM

I confess I used to like Starbuck's, but that was until they started opening 'Costa Coffee' and 'Caffe Nero' outlets over here. Hugely superior in the quality of the surroundings, the service and the product, they seem aimed at the European palate rather than the American - richer, stronger coffee and much more palatable (not to mention much healthier) food choices.

And yes Mick, I got it! (Laughing again!).

You've clearly worked out who I used to be, as well! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:53 AM

Having said all that, my coffee consumption's greatly reduced now they've chopped half my pancreas off and I've succumbed to diabetes. Hence the preference for tea.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:55 AM

My Bro-in-Law, who lives in Oakville, Ontario, is a huge Tim Horton's fan. He refers to Costa Coffee as 'Costa Fortune'. Not far from the truth!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:06 AM

Along a 6-7 mile stretch of one major road in the Los Angeles area there are six...yes, six...Starbucks. Two are inside supermarkets, the other four are stand alone. Still, it's a bit of overkill.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: bankley
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:14 AM

I used to go to a small 'cafe' in Masset B.C., (Queen Charlotte Islands/Haida Gwaii) it was owned and operated by local natives who called it 'Haida Bucks'.... they were sued by Starbucks for copyright infringement...when this David and Goliath story started getting traction in the non-local media... The BigBucks HQ in Seattle
decided to drop the case.... the Masset natives kept the name 'Haida Bucks' stating that 1) they were, in fact, Haida, and 2) some of their workers were male...


and as Carlin once said "Starbucks is opening a shop in my shorts"

so... Roll Up this Rim....

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bert
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM

Starbucks is the worst coffee I've ever tasted. And that includes the time I was on a long road journey and stopped at a gas station at around two in the morning. I filled up a coffee cup and went to pay. The woman said "I won't charge you for the coffee it has been stewing for too long".

The one and only time I bought a coffee from Starbucks it tasted as though it had been brewed from old cigarette butts.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:26 PM

There are four Starbucks in town; two years ago there weren't any. Two of them are inside markets, one is a stand-alone, and one is inside the Student Union at the University.

If I want drive-through coffee I generally go to Snake River Roasters -- they're on my way to work and closer than McDonalds (which, let it be noted, sell's "Seattle's Best" coffee).

I've got some Arbuckle's in the coffee drawer here at my desk....

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:52 PM

Long live the Costa Coffees in UK!!!

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:31 PM

Some day a chapter will be added to "The Civilizing of North America," and it will be about the spread of Starbuck's across the land.
The generic, mostly field grown Brazilian brands are still popular because they are cheap- brands that have gone through several hands such as Maxwell House and Edwards but still pop-up on those big cans.
Which reminds me, I haven't see Stewart's, once the sole coffee used on the Santa Fe railroad, in many years. It was pretty good.

Tim Horton's has been relegated to where they belong, the low-cost strip malls on the periphery; not even Wendys, which owned them for a short period, could stomach them and spun them off.
That 'little cafe' now won't serve coffee without an order for food- but the coffee was always tasteless and remains so. And they charge the same or more than Starbucks.

MacDonald's is another success story, but their coffee that I have had is just passable- something warm on a cold day.

Starbucks represents the best in American entrepreneurship. Like Home Depot, they have what one wants in a convenient location.
When I visit Chapters bookstores, in the Starbucks outlet there, I can sit in a comfortable chair and read (might even buy the book although it will be cheaper from Amazon). Already mentioned was the presence of Starbucks in the supermarket, making grocery shopping less of a chore. Another civilizing influence.

I don't have the hassle and expense of mail-ordering Ethiopian Sidamo, my favorite, but can buy the beans from Starbuck's selections.

Espresso types crept around the Mediterranean, and perhaps reached their apogee in Portugal. It always amazed me how the locals could add four lumps of sugar to the small, filled-to-the-brim espresso cup and not a drop spills over. The Italians also make good espresso.
Starbuck's tries, but the espresso is only fair. Some of the Italian restaurants here do a good job, but serve only with food.

Mellita (a German company) is just one of those supermarket shelf items here in western Canada. I think they may have better choices in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:56 PM

Maybe Starbuck's coffee comes out differently in different places, but I've always found it to be pretty good. I don't drink that much of it. Barbara gets various kinds of coffee beans from Gevalia or from Trader Joe's and grinds it fresh. I've drunk a fair amount of Starbuck's coffee, but I don't think I've ever actually bought any.

A few years ago, a friend who had written a novel wanted me to offer my opinions and suggestions on possible revision and editing. He would come to our apartment a couple of days a week, read a chapter, and then we'd discuss it. On his way, he'd stop at the Starbuck's a few blocks from where I live and picked up a couple of lattés, and as he read, we'd sip away at it. Then, a couple of times, people have given me Starbuck's gift cards, which I have used.

I've drunk one helluva lot of coffee in my life, from my first cup at the age of fifteen, brewed in a large pot over a campfire, to gallons of slop served in various restaurants and coffee shops, to instant coffee that I gulped as a morning eye-opener on my way to work, to a whole, wide variety of coffees, from espresso that would take the enamel off your teeth, to a good, strong Swedish coffee, to all kinds of coffee mixed with other stuff (Turkish coffee, caffé mocha, and Lord knows what all) while singing in coffeehouses. The Café Encore and The Place Next Door in particular took pride in the quality and variety of their coffees.

I know it's fashionable to trash the chain stores and the big guys, but the truth of the matter is that Starbuck's coffee ain't that bad. Pricey, but not that bad.

But then, living here in the Pacific Northwest (logging country), early on, I learned the secret of a good cup of coffee:

Stir it with your thumb.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:12 PM

Well its not good coffee unless you can eat it with a fork....

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:44 PM

The way to test a cup of coffee is to place a couple of electrodes, one on each side of the cup, then shoot about 60,000 volts through the coffee. If nothing happens, throw it out. If the coffee bubbles and precipitates a bit, it's not bad. But it it leaps out of the cup and chases the current back up the wires, you've got a pretty good cuppa coffee there.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 03:21 PM

And if it gets out of the cup and starts lumbering toward you, run like hell!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:12 PM

Yep, I figured Catspaw might extoll Tim's. Just like those second-time-around grounds boiled in a pail with eggshell to settle the grounds and bugs that fly over, get gassed, and fall in.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:25 PM

There's a website for Coffee AM that sells coffee from all over the world via mail order. I liked the stuff from Guatemala and Costa Rica. Then I discovered a local company that sells the same coffees in stores in Pennsylvania, so I get it there. The nice thing about Coffee AM, however, is that they still sell it by the pound. The store brands all changed to 13 oz., labeling it as "New, Convenient Size". What's so convenient about having to buy it more often in smaller containers?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 06:27 PM

My youngest brother buys the green beans and roasts them himself in a hot-air popcorn machine he bought at a yard sale. His wife makes him do it outside because of the smell, but the coffee is pretty darned good.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM

One of my colleagues reports that Starbucks is much better this day
following the 'stand down.' So apparently it was a good choice. He
said that just last week he took an overpriced SB's coffee back and
demanded a fresh cup, because it was foul.

I resent SB's because they don't offer real 'iced' de-caf. I de-caf'd
myself a decade ago. I had an intestinal issue, and had to ferry an
open-cockpit airplane from Ohio to New Jersey (at 100MPH). It was
aggravated by caffeine. So I broke my 2 double espresso a morning
habit. With the headaches and all to show for it. Never went back.

Dunkin Donuts, on the other hand, accommodates me. So there. AND they
now have some even yummier breakfast items, due to the new convection
ovens made to handle the new lunch features.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,JennieG at work
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:56 PM

$tarbuck$ have made it to Oz. A couple of years ago I had a coffee at one of their stores (can't bring myself to call it a cafe) and it had to be the worst coffee I ever had. So no more $tarbuck$ for me.

On our trip to Toronto last year we stopped over at Los Angeles airport, the $tarbuck$ in terminal 3 smelt dreadful, the burning smell was so bad I kept expecting to hear the fire engines.

Our son and his girlfriend love Tim Hortons, their day doesn't start until they have had their double double. But we discovered Second Cup, which we much preferred. And we found a cafe on Kingston Road (just along from Victoria Park Ave) called Savoury Grounds, where we had coffee nearly every day. Nice folks, and good coffee.

Now I think it's time to brew a fresh pot......

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:04 PM

Tim Horton's coffee used to be pretty dependable around here, but lately it's gone seriously downhill. The best coffee in town is now at an independent one-of-a-kind place called Razmataz.

Seems to me as far as I recall that Second Cup is usually quite good. Starbucks? Not that good, and overpriced.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: mrdux
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:37 PM

i don't go into a Starbuck's these days except to pick up a Sunday Times. since it wasn't Sunday, I wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been plastered over the front of the business sction of the morning paper. my doc took me off coffee three years ago and I'm now a tea drinker, and whatever the quality of their coffee, Starb's has lousy tea.

Rapaire -- if you're ordering coffee to be shipped to you, you might check out Ristretto Roasters in Portland (the one closest to Idaho). it's owned by some friends of mine. very nice folks and, I am told by people who seem to know, a really good roast, and they do a thriving mail order businesss.

michael

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 12:55 AM

Yep, $tarbuck$ is in Brisbane too. Took over lots of what were 'one off - mom&pop" coffee shop CBD locations - I suspect the landlords put up the rents so that they would get out and $tarbuck$ would take over.

Tried it - I dont call that overpriced muck 'coffee'... but I did buy one of their huge mugs - I use it to make up those individual serves of instant noodles - I get various types from Asian stores - some of them lift off your head - & put some frozen veggies in, then boiling water. Makes a great snack.

Best part of $tarbucks$, I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: JennieG
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 01:09 AM

We were happy with the coffee we had at the various Second Cup outlets we tried. And, while it's the coffee/drinks/munchies at these places that make you want to go back (or not), we liked the fact that several of the Second Cup places we went to each had their own decor and personality so it didn't feel like going to a chain store. There is one at a converted boathouse on Lake Ontario near the Harbourfront Centre(? I think that's the place) in Toronto; we were there on a cold rainy evening and the open fire was blazing. It was our last night in Toronto before we flew home, and it is a nice memory to have.

One thing I didn't like about Tim Horton's was the generic decor.....reminded us of McDonalds, every outlet the same.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Mooh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:31 AM

Care? Notice? Nope.

If the bait shop closes for three hours I'm pissed off. Now there's fine dining.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 09:29 AM

So why do we have four SBs and no Second Cup? We're not that far from the Canadian Border and nobody from Idaho has ever gathered an army and invaded Canada (well, the Idaho Legion was going to but became distracted at the vodka distillery and besides, that's not really an army).

Am I doomed to second- or third- or fourth- rate coffee? Is this the thanks I get for spending a bunch of money in Alberta and a teeny part of British Columbia last August? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others might take, but as for me, GIVE ME GOOD COFFEE OR GIVE ME, oh, mediocre coffe. But not bad coffee.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: bankley
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:04 AM

Steve Earle calls coffee "Christian Crack"

i don't use it myself.... either one... like the smell tho...


mmmmm christians.....

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM

"their day doesn't start until they have had their double double"

Aaaaahh, sweet memories of Oakville! Steak for breakfast at Dinasy, on Dundas, followed by a double double from Tim's.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:29 PM

Starbucks does seem to have provided a stimulus to other cafes to set up and do it better. Sort of modified and improved clones, and quite pleasant places.

I agree with Backwoodsman   that tea is a better drink. But "Earl Grey" - leave that to Captain Picard, and give me a cup of proper tea. With milk.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:36 PM

I don't hate Starbucks ~ I've always preferred strong-ish dark roast coffee, anyway ~ but I do dislike their high prices and especially their pretentious size-names. Their seating is very comfortable, though, and the atmosphere sure beats McDonald's. And they get points for providing health coverage to part-timers.

My greatest objection is that there are just too damn many of them.. Ever been to Manhattan during the current Starbucks Era? It's not much of an exaggeration to say there's a SB "on every corner." I swear there are places where you can see three or even four Starbucks outlets from a single vantage point! Ridiculous!!

With all the poverty around us, I'm taken aback to think of so many members of the clueless and overprivileged class spending $50/week or more on mediocre coffee and the convenience of having someone else make it for 'em

Here in New Orleans, we had several well-established independant coffee-outlet chains before Starbucks ever showed up. The indies have remained competitive, but Starbucks has found a niche since coming to town. After Katrina, I was pleased to notice that Starbucks decided not to reopen a couple of their flooded properties ~ but then, more recently, I saw that they opened a new shop at a site that had previously housed an independent competitor that had gone out of business. So the competition remains balanced.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:44 PM

Starbucks is a god-send when I am visiting the in-laws. They make the weakest coffee imaginable. Other than that I don't go there much. Truth be told I only go to Starbucks then because it is handy, just about anything would do.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:51 PM

I don't know who Starbuck was But Tim Horton was my childhood hero. He had the hardest shot in the NHL when the Leafs were a real hockey team. Too bad that he's now known for hardest doughnuts instead. ( my spellcheck prefers "donuts".) I can't pass judgment on the coffee as I don't drink the stuff. It raises hell with my beer taste "buds". I.E. after a coffee they are burnt so that a BUD seems to have taste.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:06 PM

Starbuck was first mate on the 'Pequod.' -not sure if I spelled that right-

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:38 PM

Without getting into the whole union thing, they sugarcoat their benefits to employees. Nobody other than management works full time. An acquaintance of mine who worked at one until recently would sometimes have a closing shift, only to have to open at 5 the very next morning. Every week she got a different work schedule, so planning anything in advance with friends never worked, and after a year, her raise turned out to be less than 25 cents. And I have had corrobaration on this with other people at different Starbucks. Poppas point about NYC is true-I know because you were probably in my neighborhood with 4 or 5 of them within visual contact! I prefer to go anywhere else, and I think Dunkin DOnuts coffee is better anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:18 PM

Where y'at, irishenglish? Upper East Side?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:20 PM

Nah, Hell's Kitchen, but lemmee see, there are 8 that I can count in my head within a 5 to 10 block radius.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: bankley
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:02 PM

Starbuck was also the name of a main character played by Burt Lancaster in 'The Rainmaker'... in the 50's....a charming rogue..

The last time I was in a Starbucks Cafe was a few years ago in North Vancouver.... some yuppie was complaining to his friend that he couldn't get a good cell-phone feed when he was in the Andes... I said to myself...'Okay, that's %&^$# enough'.... never been back to any. What have I missed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:07 PM

Nothing much except them putting their brand name on CD's and other merchandise like Paul McCartney's last one, which was sold exclusively at Starbucks rather than at a record store initially. Everything else....the same, whether you're in Vancouver or Valhalla!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: number 6
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:00 PM

"Starbucks closing: did you care?"


Did I .... nope


Do I .... nope



biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:00 PM

Cellphone connections in the Andes? My grandson had a hard time getting connected to the internet in Andean towns. Not many internet cafes or inns with connections. When he got into the large towns, be did 'phone a couple of times. North Van? Possibly it was him.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:01 PM

As long as the Cafe du Monde ain't Starbucks, PoppaGator!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:42 PM

When pledge break comes around at my local public radio and television stations, oftentimes part of the pitch is that they will suggest a membership donation, then say, "That's less than the price of one latté a week."

After guzzling a couple of supertanker-loads of coffee over the years, it started getting to my stomach a bit. I still drink coffee from time to time, but my current preference is tea.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:14 PM

"With all the poverty around us, I'm taken aback to think of so many members of the clueless and overprivileged class spending $50/week or more on mediocre coffee and the convenience of having someone else make it for 'em"

It's a sort of karma - the rich clueless and overprivileged class consumers are the source of sustenance for the underpaid underpriveleged coffee makers...

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:29 AM

"I still drink coffee from time to time, but my current preference is tea."

Way to go, Don!!

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:35 AM

I have to confess that I hardly drink coffee any more - the medics tell me it's bad for my diabetes and tea is better. And I prefer the taste of tea now, but I do allow myself the occasional Espresso or a small Americano skinny at Costa Coffee or Caffe Nero.

But Starbucks? Nope, I'd rather drink my dog's pee.

Tea is also laden with antioxidants which are good for the heart. Coffee just gave me palpitations after two or three.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:46 AM

I drink about 2.5 cups of black coffee per work day. Rarely make it at home, even from instant. At home I usually drink tea or hot chocolate (or diet Pepsi).

I've never heard of a link between coffee and diabetes, although I suspect that if you drink too much of it or use additives you could have a problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: bankley
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM

'Hear Music' is Starbuck's record label... Joni Mitchell is with them also

oh well, Garth Brooks and Eagles are dealing with Walmart..

Time for the Revolution..... and some King Cole Tea from N.B.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 09:00 AM

"and some King Cole Tea from N.B."
Best there is! Although, like Red Rose I believe that it's only available in Canada. Another pitty............
It was once shipped to the USA but for some strange reason they threw it overboard in Boston Harbour. They haven't gotten any decent tea since then! (   :-} running and ducking )

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Tweed
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:03 AM

Did I care? Yaz, because when a coffee shop closes for a couple hours and it makes the evening news, we is all up shit's creek.

"Paddle faster. I hear banjo music."

Only time I get anything from Starbucks is at the airport, if it's a morning flight, but I don't think they got a thing over the Chock Full of Nuts brand coffee that I brew every morning with a goodly splash of half & half in it.

And why is coffee drinking something to look down upon I wonder?

Tea's alright, but to sweep all the cobwebs outta my pore brain case at 5:30 I need something with more octane than earl grey can give me.
And it smells better. Just the scent of fresh coffee wafting past your nostrils will get you on the path to a great day with many wonderful adventures waiting beyond every corner for you. And with this fantasy zipping through my caffeine-addled mind I fall out into the real world well girded against lane changers, old folks in Mercurys who leave their turn signal on for miles, and ninja motorcycles that I have near miss encounters with every morning on my way to work.

Yaz, yaz, coffee is King of Breakfast Beverages!!
Accept no substitute.
But no, I couldn't give a shit if Starbucks closed up forever, but know a few friends who'd lose their minds if it did.

Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:45 AM

Since Starbucks makes most of its profit on weird concoctions of milk & various flavors, a lot of its customers wouldn't have the slightest idea whether the actual coffee is 'good' or how it's roasted.

And since a friend of my son works part-time at Starbucks, I an 'occasionally' gifted with a free bag....and it IS the case that the quality of whole beans they sell depends a lot of the type of coffee. The Ethiopian & such are too strong & dark, while the Guatemala Antigua is pretty good. I won't turn it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,astro
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM

Here is a link to something pretty funny about this...Try it, you might like it....

click

Astro

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM

or this

click

astro

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM

Addiction is a terrible thing........

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:43 PM

Ethiopian too strong and dark? My morning only starts after two cups of Ethiopian Sidamo.

Thanks to Starbuck's I can buy the beans in their establishments without resorting to mail order.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM

"...two cups of Ethiopian Sidamo."

Drink it? Or right into the vein?

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

Nova Scotia tea isn't bad for that jolt. A spoon will float in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM

Coffee smells way better than it tastes, in my opinion. I have to put a lot of sugar in it before I can handle the taste.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 12:10 AM

I don't like the taste of tea, and I do like the taste of coffee.......ergo, I drink coffee rather than tea. It has nothing to do with addiction as I drink no more than four cups (often only two or three) spread over the whole day. If coffee isn't forthcoming I can wait until it is without feeling deprived.

But I have my standards, and $tarbuck$ doesn't fit in them!

Cheers
JenieG

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:02 AM

Couldn't care less about the subject, but why let that stop me?

Two items gleaned from the radie-i-o: 1) Second Cup came first (before Starbucks, that is); 2) Tim Horton's coffee in the States is not as good as in Canada.

Now on a subject I care passionately about: King Cole tea is the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:30 AM

I'm currently embarked in a single-handed attempt to empty an economy size tin of Aero Hot Chocolate in 2 weeks. It's damned fine stuff... much nicer than any of that nasty burnt bean drink.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:03 AM

"I've never heard of a link between coffee and diabetes, although I suspect that if you drink too much of it or use additives you could have a problem."

Rap, the Quack told me that something in coffee suppresses insulin production, but tea doesn't. Don't ask me about the chemistry/physiology involved - I'm an accountant and folkie, science is way too....errrrmmm, scientific......for me to understand.

If anyone knows better and can give me a link to some accredited data, I'd appreciate it as, since November 07, I only have half a pancreas, and I need all the help I can get! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:50 PM

"link between coffee and diabetes"

I have heard of a suggested link between caffeine (and of course sugar ...) and diabetes, but can give no further info.


"a single-handed attempt to empty an economy size tin of Aero Hot Chocolate in 2 weeks"

I admire heroic acts. I'll send flowers!


"Tea's alright, but to sweep all the cobwebs outta my pore brain case at 5:30 I need something with more octane than earl grey can give me.
And it smells better."

There are teas that have several times the caffeine content of that stuff! (Actually I do like it! - sometimes). Twinings China Black... for a start :-) and the various 'Breakfast' style teas have a higher content. Darjeeling (and 'Afternoon' types) has a much lower content too.

Try various 'Chai' blends - some have quite a kick - and I just love cinnamon & cloves! Chai is traditionally made with a high proportion of milk too.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 12:04 AM

By the way, Red Rose Tea is available in supermarkets here. It was also available in Ohio and Indiana.

Subject: RE: BS: Starbucks closing: did you care?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 12:24 AM

Good articles on coffee consumption and caffeine at the Mayo Clinic website.
Look at Coffee
Other articles there specifically address caffeine.

It seems that for the normal person, drink as much as you want and no problems. An article in "Circulation" suggests that, with regard to the heart and circulation, it makes no difference how much one drinks.
The Mayo Clinic suggests moderation, as in all things.