BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco

Subject: BS: Tornado!!
From: Phot
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:38 PM

In about five hours time, a small bit of history will happen. A brand new steam loco will make her first mainline passenger trip. Eighteen years in the making, and costing £3.000.000, all from a good idea, and a few pints in the pub..............Bloody Brilliant!

Anyone up for a saturday club to get Evening Star back where she belongs?

Wassail!! Chris

---

There were two open threads on the same subject, so I combined them. When starting threads, be sure to give them a title that is readily understandable and that give a clear idea of the subject of the thread. Tornado! didn't work very well.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:33 AM

Here's the A1 Society website:

http://www.a1steam.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: mouldy
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:50 AM

I have just seen it! I was on my way home from a neighbouring village, and I saw something unusual go by the site of the Great Heck crash, and some pullman type coaches. Looking across the fields a few minutes later, I saw the magnificent sight a steam loco stopped at a signal. I flew back to my village, which is just about a quarter of a mile from the East Coast main line, and joined the spotters waiting for her. Luckily I usually carry a little camera.
I got some piccies, and it was a real privilege to see her. Pity she's not got her nameplate on yet!

If anyone wants a pic, such as it is, pm me with your email, and I'll gladly send what I've got. One or two aren't too bad!

I just wish my Ian had still been alive to see this day!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:31 AM

Was this the subject of a BBC documentary recently? If it's the same, I was hugely impressed by the dedication of the people involved - a magnificent job.

My great-grandfather was a driver on the old LMS Railway in the 1900s and drove the "Royal Scot" locomotives. His son, my grandfather, was a fitter in the Locomotive Works in Horwich (Lancashire).

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:40 AM

How lovely! To see something like that in real life would give me tingles.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Phot
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:37 PM

Tam, have a look on You Tube, there are a few vids of Tornado on her proving runs, just the way 1500 horsepower should look! Loud, proud and just bloody great!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Fossil
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM

What a truly wonderful idea!

The little beach town in which I live was originally started as a railway town serving NZ's North Island Main Trunk line, which had its 100th anniversary recently. The railway still plays a big part in the life of the town and runs in a cutting at the back of my house. Every now and then the local steam preservation societies - one of which has its home in Paekakariki, and one a few miles away - run excursions on the main line and we hear the whistles blowing.

The thought of seeing a *new* steam engine on Britain's main lines on my next trip to Europe is very exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Bainbo
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:38 PM

We were going to a Mary Gauthier gig at Gateshead, and decided to make a day out of it - started by wandering down to the East Coast main line to watch Tornado come past. It really was magnificent. A whistle in the distance, then a light and clouds of steam, and then this beutiful apple-green locomotive, wth the old British Rail logo on the side flew past at 70-something miles an hour, pulling coaches marked Royal Scot. The old pullman type, with people sitting at tables. I think we'll definitely get our name down for a trip some time!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:54 PM

Sorry, "Paekakariki on The Main Trunk Line" just doesn't scan.

Peter Cape's Taumarunui on the Main Trunk Line

Looking at the NZ Folksong site, Cape must have written more genuinely singable songs about railways than anybody else anywhere ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:01 PM

Yes Will Fly, you're right, this was it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dzz5y

Subject: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:16 AM

I've started a new thread here as I think some people may be missing the other one on the same subject (Tornado) maybe due to thinking of the meteorological term!:

http://www.a1steam.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM

"Steam Loco"-----what a wonderful description of railway-engine enthusiasts ( like myself !! ).

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:47 AM

Aren't we ferro-equinologists nowadays?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:59 AM

Ferroviaphiles??

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:03 AM

Maybe a mod will correct the other thread's title and combine these?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:28 AM

The A1 site says "Download the A1's steam whistle as a ringtone". Just tried it out on my laptop - wheee, what a great noise! What a beautiful engine - just wish I lived in a more convenient place to get on board (and back). Now, if you could bring it down to the Bluebell line for a bit...

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:20 PM

Just think of how many banjoes they could have built with the money.
Thank God for railway buffs!
(I prefer the narrow gauge myself)

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:47 PM

She's good, but not a 9F, or a King .......Or Castle, or County! But thank heavens they did it!

I wonder how many banjos it takes to light up an A1? *g*

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:07 PM

It is a wonderful achievement.I think they could have built a Leader class or another in the pipeline design!(Wern't there plans for a gas turbine loco drawn up sometime in the late 60's?) But it is a great loco.I'd love it to run up to Thurso ! Or I will find it when next off the islands.It would look good on the NYMR.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:21 PM

Well look at that. NYMR 1st to 10th May. I'll have to either see it at York in the Easter or maybe get to se it in the summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:23 PM

Kewl!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:28 PM

It's just the smell of steam, coal and oil that does it for me.

To hell with air fresheners, why can't they bottle essence of steam engine?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:32 PM

"Tornado" is indeed marvellous. No matter how beautifully an old loco is restored, it will still have honourable scars betraying its age. But the new A1 made me rub my eyes - it really is pristine, like a sort of mammoth Hornby model scaled up if that doesn't sound daft! I had the privilege of having a look in the cab and it's a combination of traditional controls and various black boxes for safety systems. And would you believe a No Smoking sticker.

Eric, there were three gas turbine locos constructed in the UK - the first one, 18000, ordered by the GWR from Brown Boveri, is still extant minus gas turbine and the odd wheelset. Saw it at Barrow Hill last year. 18100 was a later British (Metropolitan Vickers) built example - this was converted to 25KV electric and used for crew training. Scrapped unfortunately. GT3 was the wackiest, also the most handsome - it closely resembled a steam locomotive e.g. a Black 5, having coupled wheels, a tender and a single cab at the rear of the loco! It was I think made by English Electric and was also unfortunately scrapped. There was also the APT test train which had Leyland gas turbine power.

I believe all the British gas turbine designs, as with the American ones and others, foundered on fuel consumption issues (and the exhausts were pretty hot too - I heard GT3 couldn't be parked up with the exhaust under a bridge).

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:40 PM

Someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to bring back coal-burning trains?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:47 PM

Does it have a beautiful, soulful steam whistle?

I once took a ride on the Boone and Scenic Valley Railroad, which gives you a lovely ride near Desmoines, Iowa. Their locomotive was made in China, the last steam locomotive to be made there.

The Chinese had been using efficient, modern horns on their locomotives, and they were baffled at first that the BSV people wanted a bell and an old-fashioned steam whistle. But they finally worked it all out.

Meanwhile, congratulations on the Tornado.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: 3refs
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:45 PM

I've been told that there is a thing called "Clean Coal Technology". Some say there's no such thing. Whoda you believe?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 11:05 PM

More efficient use of coal on steam loco's was investigated here, to the extent that a new design of loco for the UK was mooted:

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/wardale.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 02:47 AM

Do the kids look at it and say........

"Wow! It's Henry from the island of Sodor!"


An Engineman's son, I love the rails and the wonderful restorations we have here but to see an all new one................I'm kinda' envious.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Kampervan
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:19 AM

Michael

I don't think that anyone would advocate bringing back coal-burning trains dor mainstream transport. It wouldn't make sense for a lot of reasons, unless something very radical was done to reduce their envidonmental impact.

But the damage done by the odd steam train, going out relatively infrequently, is far outweighed by the pleasure brought to hundreds of thousands of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM

The ringtone on the A1 Society website is of a chime whistle, did A1's have them? I didn't think so, I thought they were the usual ear piercing LNER ones as on 'Flying Scotsman'!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Newport Boy
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:51 AM

Some details of the GT1, GT2 and GT3 gas turbine locos are covered here with a good photo of GT3.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

"Someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to bring back coal-burning trains? "

Because, it was perhaps the one thing in the world that Great Britain was best at - and another answer is "because we can"!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:22 PM

Neither sounds like a good reason to me, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:03 PM

Re Jim's absolutely correct remark about A1s not having chime whistles, the Trust guys know this but they want one because it sounds great! I haven't seen "Tornado" yet this year so don't know if they've fitted it yet. They recently found that some white metal had stripped off one of the outside slide bars and have been having a few issues with the modern electronics - so I think they have their hands a bit full. This is why it's so important for people to keep supporting the Trust even though the engine is complete and running.   

Last week while scanning some ancient slides I found one I took of the last (but one!) A1 "St. Mungo" at Leeds City - taken on horrible Ilfochrome around August 1965. I was only 18 then - oh blimey!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Megan L
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM

My fathers first job as an apprentice in Springburn (Possibly the atlas works) was working on the train that was nicknamed "The diver" she was the locomotive that went down with the Tay bridge on the 28th December 1879. The engine was raised overhauled and continued to work for many years.

I like many people have a soft spot for steam locomotives and would delight to see it running.

In these days of dwindling fosil fuel supples It would be impracticle to have a whole fleet but for the skills saved and the pleasure gained this was most probably a worthwhile exercise

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:40 PM

Sorry folks, re previous post - they have fitted the chime whistle. See vid taken at Newcastle last Saturday (wow!)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1GBhRtPIHCE

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:58 AM

Coal can be a dirty fuel but it depends on how you handle it. At the end of World War Two the German airforce were working on using it to power jet aircraft as they were running out of oil. To do so they had to use it as a very fine dust, so a great deal of dirt if you spilt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 09:04 AM

Presumably the fine coal dust was blown into the aircraft's combustion chambers to produce heat and gases. Would it be possible to power a locomotive in the same way?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:51 PM

Presumably you could because a jet engine is basically operating on the same principle as a gas turbine. I remember reading somewhere that the GT's that USA had (burning liquid fuel) only reached optimum efficiency when they climbed to fairly high altitudes where the air (oxygen) is rarer. Again, that's how jet aircraft operate.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:18 PM

To run a gas turbine/Jet engine (Same thing, apart from a ramjet) you mix coal dust in water to suspend it. The coal dust used has a similar consistency to talcum powder. Then it is injected into the combustion chamber, the same as ordinary Jet-A1, AvTur, AvCat, AvTag, or fuel of your choice!

Its just a 4 stroke engine with less rociprocating parts!

The reason you can't use coal dust in a steam loco, is that it will explode, causing a really bad day on the footplate!

Wassail!! chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 10:57 PM

Ed, thanks for the link to the video of Tornado coming into Newcastle.

how many passenger cars is that engine pulling!? It is a powerful machine.

Too bad about about the whistle, though. It's a boy soprano and I was hoping for a baritone.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Newport Boy
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 09:39 AM

Tornado is pulling 13 coaches (passenger cars run on the roads in UK!!). This was about the standard for most main line expresses in the 50s and 60s - most main line stations just held that length train.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 11:25 AM

"Neither sounds like a good reason to me, Bonzo."

That's fine, but what is your problem with this wonderful locomotive?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:27 PM

Not my problem. It could be a problem for folks having to breathe the exhaust.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 04:17 PM

They'll just have to stay at home then. It's no different from breathing the foul stench from smokers outside places!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:31 AM

Nonsense. If you've lived in England for more than a few years, you should well remember the soot and grime covering everything from fresh washed laundry to childrens' lungs.

Mining and burning coal is a major cause of pollution and greenhouse gases, childhood asthma and global warming. Weighed against that, steam engine nostalgia is just silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:16 AM

It's a difficult subject, steam nostalgia. All very well for us young chaps 40 odd years ago but a different story for the drivers, firemen and cleaners, not to mention the general public. To precis a paragraph from "Britain's Railways Under Steam" by the splendid John Snell -

"The Midland's main line depot in London was Kentish Town. One shed was partly roofless, following bomb damage never repaired. The engines came in, were coaled and had their fires cleaned, and lay by waiting their next turn. The wind blew their ashes, coaldust and smoke over a square mile or so of houses, and for 80 years or so these lay blanketed in silently descending filth. Then came the diesel, and one by one the steam engines vanished. Meanwhile, the housewives downwind began to find that for the first time they could keep their houses clean and put bright curtains in the windows."

And Mr Snell has been half way round the world chasing steam!

On the other hand, many ex railwaymen miss steam as much as us gricers - as another example see this splendid website about, let's face it, a filthy old dump with not a few extremely filthy engines near Nottingham -

http://www.annesleyfireman.com/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Phil Irving
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:22 PM

Would appreciate a pic of Tornado - well done you!
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 03:18 PM

I saw her in the engine shed atLoughborough (Great Central Railway) in the autumn. DWARFED everything else in the shed.

First run to Kings Cross tomorrow!

The loco will be named at York station by Prince Charles on Febrary 19th. After that she will haul the Royal train.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 05:36 PM

There is always a misery to critisise a great achievement in this country, and michaelr certainly fits the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: mouldy
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:24 AM

It's coming past our village again in (I estimate) about an hour, so the cameras and I will be taking a little stroll!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: mouldy
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 07:39 AM

I missed it. Damn!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 08:23 AM

Never mind, it'll be out and about a great deal now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: HuwG
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 09:05 AM

My two penn'orth. One; she's a beauty. I'm glad they replaced the awful blue primer she first appeared in with the old LNER apple green.

I'm puzzled about the whistle. The whistle on the LNER A4 "Pacifics" ("Mallars", "Golden Fleece" etc.) had a lovely mellow tone, because the steam for them was tapped directly from the boiler. The same whistle, applied to other classes, was mounted at the end of long taps from exhaust steam pickups, and sounded anaemic to awful. I don't know quite why they seem to have reproduced the fault on "Tornado".

Thirteen carriages is quite a lot, and "Tornado" is producing some impressive power. However, it is ironic that only since the end of the age of steam, have some of the designs (and operating procedures) been perfected, or improved. For example, it was only in recent years that they fixed the valve event problems on the solitary BR "Duke of Gloucester", and a reconditioned "Evening Star" started a special train weighing 2,500 tons; a record for any type of traction in Britain.

I am all in favour of "Tornado". There were indeed endemic problems with steam (smoke, grime, lineside fires), but complaining about *one* locomotive seems unnecessarily sour. I do indeed remember the final days of steam in Britain, with all its drawbacks, but I still think much of character and pride was lost when the engine became merely a rectangular box.

I don't hear similar complaints over reconstructing Drake's "Golden Hind" (sailing ship) for example, or recovering B29 bombers from lakes, or recreating mediaeval settlements or whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 12:53 PM

Mmm. I see it gets on the national news now that it's made a run to Kings Cross.

Yawn. Old news. Come on, London, try and keep up with the rest of us!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 01:19 PM

michaelr - what a misery you are! The Tornado is just about the only bit of joyous news about at the moment. I reckon its existence gives everyone (except you, of course) a real lift.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:24 AM

http://marcsphotographs.fotopic.net/p56276449.html

Enjoy!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:21 AM

Master shot! And you got there in spite of the Great British Weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:56 AM

michealr, you'll be pleased to hear that the Tornado is not in reality a coalburner, it was secretly fitted with the miniatuare nuclear reactor that was removed from the Naval College in Greenwich so all's well!

Excellent documentary on BBC4 some weeks ago telling the story of the Tornado, 'Absolutely Chuffed' as I remember the title and the 'Guardian' did a centre spread photo spread showing the footplate & controls together with insructions on how to drive this beast. So be warned should I ever come across it standing in some siding with steam-up but unmanned the police could have the most serious case of TWOC'ing ever seen!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 09:37 AM

You have puzzled me HuwG. Would it not be dangerous to have the only warning device working from exhaust steam? What would happen if steam were shut off and the loco was coasting along using no or very little steam and the driver suddenly needed to sould a warning? Indeed would there not be even more time delay with a superheated engine?
Also were not the Britaninas fitted with chime whistles, was the Duke?
Apple green would surely be an anthama to Darlington! Much too much Doncaster there!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:27 AM

I wonder how many of Porta's recommendations were incorporated:

http://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/ldp/60163/60163.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 05:29 AM

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=98

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 12:24 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

Those are good questions about the steam whistle, ced2. I don't know the answers.

However I'm pretty sure that the modern high-pitched whistle is safer than the beautiful, mellow whistle of yore. The high whistle will carry further and will cut through competing sounds such as car radios and cell-phone conversation.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 03:30 PM

I now know the answers about the steam whistles. It would have been both illegal and dangerous to have the whistle on an exhaust steam supply. Apart from the scenario I outlined earlier; BEFORE setting off a steam locomotive driver had to sound the whistle... this clearly could not be done if the whistle was supplied by exhaust steam. I did check with a couple of friends who are drivers on a standard gauge line, (having only had a ticket to fire and drive on a narrow gauge line myself I wanted to be sure before I spouted off). (One of the chaps I spoke to is rebuilding a bullied pacific). To clear up the technical bits, the steam for the whistle is usualy tapped off the boiler manifold where the steam for injectors, ejectors and any other bits of mainly ancillary equipment is also tapped off. (The steam for motion exiting via the regulator head).
I spoke to a member of the Tornado support crew he told me that Tornado has both chime and "ordinary" whistles!
"Brit" 70013 along with all the other "brits" has a chime whistle and it was making some nice noises on the Worth Valley at the weekend, much as I remember it in 1967 on the Settle & Carlisle.
Tornado is in an apple green but there are 4 such versions... which one it is I am not sure as I have had 2 different answers from 2 different members of its support crew. One said Darlington green the other said apple green (the differences grew up partly out of the bad feeling by the ex NER people at Darlington when they perceived the the GNR people had got most of the top jobs in the LNER at the grouping of 1923). I undestand from one of those support crew members that Tornado was initially finished in workshop grey. I thought this to be the case when I saw it at York both before and on the day when it made it's initial main line test run to Barrow Hill on Nov 6th 2008. This is likely to be true as it was the practice of many companies to finish one of the first of a new design of locomotive in workshop grey for photographic purposes, remembering of course that it was monochrome photography, and contrast was more important for that exercise than colour. I was also informed by my contact that the colour of Tornado is likely to be changed a number of times in the future to show all the liveries that the Peppercorn A1 pacifics sported during their working lives and to satisfy the different memories and aspirations of those who supported the buiding of it.
As to the valve gear being the problem on the Duke. The one word reply from my contact was NO! I have to say however that he poo-pooed my understanding of the fundamental problem that caused heavy coal consumption (and at certain times poor drawbar horsepower) although we were clear that the manifestation was to drag small lumps of unburnt coal off the firebed and up the chimney without them burning properly. (reference to the BR "black book" will explain about coal combustion and the fact that 90+% of heat comes from the burning of the long chain hydrocarbons given off when the coal is completely burned). I might, in the next week or so meet, some of the people who really do know what the problem was, If I do I'll ask them.
Apologies for the rambling nature of this but a fair amount of mis information was spouted in one contribution. I have sought not to do that, alas at the expnse of brevity. Oh and by the way 13 is not a heavy load for a pacific, A4s (and V2s) frequently lifted a grossly overloaded 19 or 20 out of Kings Cross during the war without any banking loco at the back.
I am also unclear which operating procedures have been improved by volunteers on volunteer railways making them better than those carried out by the thousands of people who were paid professional railway workers, when it, the railway, was the major mover of people and freight in this and other countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:25 PM

I saw Tornado at South Croydon, in the dark of course, and didn't attempt a photo although I had a camera with me. They are now building another 50 such locomotives at secret locations in order to keep up with government pollution targets!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 11:49 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 03:14 AM

There are a whole load of new builds out there too. The GWS are building a Saint, and a Railmotor, the Llangothlen Railway are building a GWR County, the Bluebell a Brighton Atlantic, the 72010 group a 6mt Clan, Tysley is building a Bloomer 2-2-2, the frames have just been delivered for a Standard 3mt 2-6-2t, and a fund has recently been set up to build an LMS Patriot.

Anyone got a favorite class they would like to see built?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:33 AM

Well, from all accounts that I have read written by ex-GWR-railwaymen the most liked GWR loco was the Grange. It may not have been the fastest or most powerful but it performed its alloted tasks the best.
A 47xx would be nice as well.

I'm living in Lancashire now so an L&Y 4-4-2 would look nice, and for the freight side how about a large boiler L&Y 0-8-0.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: HuwG
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 02:40 PM

A belated answer to ced2's post. I have been rummaging in the attic for my sources, but too few of my old books have survived purges.

E.S. Cox, in "Locomotive Panorama", described holding a concert for train whistles, and stated that the A4 chime whistles sounded rather feeble on other engine types because of long pipes, full of condensation. Terry Essery, in "Steam Locomotives Compared", suggested that some auxiliaries normally worked from exhaust steam, but were automatically fed from live steam when the regulator was closed. Unfortunately he doesn't state whether the whistle was one of these. ced2 is probably right; it would seem unusual to use exhaust steam for the whistle, but I will have to re-read the voluminously detailed Essery again, more carefully.

I looked at some other steam train videos on YouTube. One I liked was of a Black 5 on the notoriously steep Settle and Carlisle line, pulling ten carriages and a very dead Type 47 diesel locomotive up a gradient. It produced smoke to rival Mount St. Helens, but it pulled.

My dream for new design or build, would be for a properly designed and draughted "Garrett". These never did well on British main lines; there was one whopper (the LNER U1) which banked heavy coal trains up the Worsborough Incline from Barnsley to Penistone, and thirty-three also used for heavy freight on the LMS. This class was badly designed in detail, with inadequate axle boxes and brakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 07:45 PM

I still think a "Leader" would be good. It was an experimental design. Bullied could have had more time to develop it or at least Riddles could have had a good crack at it. A Southern "W" class could be a project as there were a lot of K,N and N15 parts used. I know people would say there are enough spams including rebuilds (Lucky I guess that so many were saved. IMHO)There are Garretts available 1 in Glasgow and 1 in Manchester.

"Make loco's not war", could be the battle cry of the 2010's.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: van lingle
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 08:25 AM

Thanks for the excellent photos, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 12:03 AM

'"Make loco's not war", could be the battle cry of the 2010's.'

It sounds like a good concept, Eric, but here in America we don't call them locos. 'Loco' means crazy here. (from Spanish, I think.) This could get very confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 02:53 PM

"Tornado" looked fantastic at the naming ceremony last Thursday (by Prince Charles and Camilla no less). The engine hauled the Royal Train to Leeds after the ceremony.

See shot by Messrs. J Kirby and G Shepherd. That's a new one - two people using the same camera at once!

http://www.clagmonster.fotopic.net/p56491561.html

Well worth getting up for at 0645 hrs in spite of the fact that "the master shot" was not to be had. Organisation very good, security very unobtrusive. Charlie made a witty speech (see Northern Echo website), there was a flypast by a Tornado and two other jets, and a band played. Us plebs on platform 10 got a wave from Camilla as the Royal Train pulled in and a wave from Charlie on the footplate as the train pulled out.

And now to find the money for a trip behind "Tornado".....

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 22 Feb 09 - 03:33 PM

Looks realy good. Anyone got any idea where it might be in the week of 28th March to 6Th April? We'll be off island and into the Selby area. I know it won't be at NRM.

Yes perhaps it should be,"Loco's make war, make trains instead".

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: HuwG
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM

Eric the Viking, may I assume that the Garratt in Manchester you are referring to is that in the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology?

If so, they are holding celebrations to mark the centenary of the Garratt; click here

Unfortunately, the Museum's exhibit will never run on the railway network in Britain; it was built for South African railways and has a 3' 6" gauge. I have stood on its footplate; all that could be seen ahead was the back of the water tank mounted on the leading engine.

Garratts were never really popular with railwaymen in Britain. See links for the LNER Class U1 and LMS Garratt.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 10:25 AM

There are a couple of working garratts on the northern end of the Welsh Highland. Although nominal 2ft gauge they are huge. They originally worked in southern Africa under the designation NG16. 2-6-0-0-6-2 wheel arrangement they were, alas, when I saw them oil fired. They dwarfed any genuine North Wales Narrow Gauge locos, the double Fairlies of the Ffestiniog or Russell of the WHR looking pretty small next to them . Equally impressive are the NG15s a more conventional locomotive at first sight but with a measure of articulation in the 8 driving wheels. The WHR(C) had one in the yard at Dinas and the WHR(P) one at Gelert's Farm... but in bits.. all over the place and they were trying to flog it. But as one local told me "They are not right they are much too big!"

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 07:53 PM

You'r right Ced, those NG16s are a lot to big, but at least it's steam. A nice Manning Wardle 2-6-2T would look lovley there bach!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 27 Feb 09 - 08:14 PM

I hate to say it as a southerner, but they could build a broad gauge loco and some rolling stock.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Feb 09 - 10:49 AM

http://www.clagmonster.fotopic.net/p56491561.html

You cannot copy and paste this picture from the website - but if you do Edit/select all/copy then paste to Excel, you can highlight the cells covering the area of the photo then copy and paste into Paint Shop Pro or similar, crop out the annoying text and save as a jpg.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 02:34 AM

Eric, The GWS at Didcot have built a broad gauge Firefly, and stock to match, at the northern end of their site. Also the NRM has an Iron Duke which ventures out on the odd occasion.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 04:45 AM

Whilst Tornado was heading North from York for a weeks stay in Edinburgh Yesterday, it returns to York Sat 7th March, a far superior pacific, A4 60007 was heading south from York towards Birmingham. I went to Moorthorpe (on the old Swinton & Knottingley line) to be part of the backing group as in "Sir Nigel and the Gricers!!!" But Sods Law applied, just as the chime whistle sounded from the A4 on the "up line" a nodding donkey pulled into the "down" platform. However got a piccy! Now I'll await the howls from the A1 brigade!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 01 Mar 09 - 03:42 PM

Thanks Chris. I am completely out of touch and a good distance from anywhere at the moment. I spent years working on the NYMR, p-way and guard and odd times on the bluebell but that was twenty five years ago. Been out of touch except for a quick read of steam railway or heritage railway magazine. I am how ever hoping to get moved to near Keith where there is a fledgling preservation group (Keith and Dufftown Railway) and thence back to exploring steam again. I might even get down as far as the mid hants, KESR and Bluebell again. It's 25 odd years since I was last at Didcot.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,clagmonster
Date: 12 Mar 09 - 12:49 PM

You are quite right you can't copy and paste images from http://www.clagmonster.fotopic.net. I am the site's owner and as such I would like to state that images are in such a condition so they can be protected from fraudulent use.

Any queries should be directed to me via the gallery's messgae fuction.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,JimMartin
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:27 AM

She was out again yesterday, appearing at York on the same day as 3 other main line steam locos - 60007,70013 & a Duchess. This must be a record!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:59 AM

What a sight that must have been, did you take any photos?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,JimMartin
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 08:05 AM

No, I wasn't there unfortunately being many miles away in Ireland!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 11:43 AM

Thanks for that Jim, this means that any second now several master shots should drop into my inbox - my friend Dick is on a mission!

By the way, the 1968 film about Flying Scotsman's non stop King's Cross-Edinburgh run is on the BBC Archive website (UK only I believe):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7307.shtml?all=2&id=7307

Very good film. Features not only Alan Pegler, 4472's owner at the time, but also Wilbert Awdry and C Hamilton Ellis.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 02:49 PM

She's beautiful. I caught the picture of the lovely green loco and can see why she stimulates pride and enthusiasm.

I was young and alive for the last scheduled run of a steam loco in California. My parents made a film of my brother and I holding our little hands to our ears as the whistle blew.

Since then I've worked at a refinery in California which has been in place for over a hundred years. Their first distributed power was not in electric lines, but in steam lines. And steam had a deeply researched technology similar to electricity, I learned. While we electrical folk talk of voltage, resistance, and current, the steam people talk of pressure, water, and flow.

And the consequences of a fault are similar- BURNS!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 07:26 PM

But they are a better class of burn! And we do talk of improved Stevensons link gear............

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: nickp
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:11 AM

Beautiful. I was lucky enough to see her 3 times over the summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 08:23 AM

What has improved Stphenson's link got to do with Tornado?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 08:31 AM

Sorry Ced2, I had my GWR head on!

Should have been Walsharts!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 08:33 AM

Absolutely!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 08:35 AM

Did anyone see the Top Gear race between Tornado, a Jaguar XK120, and a Vincent Black Shadow?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 06:59 PM

Yes, it was repeated last week. The write up May/June Steam Railway was interesting. I can imagine it was more than a pain to have Clarkson and film crew etc on the footplate. (especially after the debacle that was the race to Orkney by the hamster and james May) It may still be available on i player.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 06:43 AM

That sure was a very full footplate! And the look on Clarksons face when she slipped at 75mph was priceless! Mind you, I would have probably done the same!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bainbo
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 01:35 PM

It crossed the Ribblehead Viaduct on the Settle to Carlisle line. What a photo!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 03:47 PM

Would have loved to have seen that!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:38 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:14 AM

Well held Lead!

She is certainly earning her keep for the A1 Trust, and apart form a couple of teething problems during trials (Inner cylinder crosshead) wonderfully reliable.

So whos up for a GWR 47XX new build?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 09:22 AM

Whilst not being a complete GWR fan but rather a Southern fan, a GWR Saint class would be good especially as the odd one was rebuilt as a Hall.But I'd love to see a "Paddlebox" or a "Black motor" again.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:20 AM

A bit off topic, but anyone into British transport films? I have 3 of their DVD sets, and loads of other railway dvd's (For saddo's who've nothing better to do when it's raining)

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:46 PM

Eric, there is a Saint being built. Lady of Legend, by the GWS at Didcot.

And I hold my hand up as being a saddo! Any 9Fs giving it loud?

Wassail!! chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 10:55 AM

Phot. When I escape the confines of living on an island and get moved back to the mainland, albeit the top of Scotland. Didcot is on my list. I haven't been for over 20 years, Nor the Bluebell either. Mid Hants at least 10 years. K&ESR and S&KDLR about 23 years and RH&DR nearly 25.I used to go down from the NYMR, where I was on P-way and Guard, with a group of us and work on the P-way every Easter. Done bits of P-way on several.

9F's wicked machines. There should be more steam songs (There are other threads on that topic)

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 12:18 PM

Eric, type 9F loco into You tube, sit back and enjoy! Especially Black Prince lifting 1000 tons unassisted uphill at Mearhead quarry, turn up the speakers for the best effect!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 04:59 PM

Eric, I've always loved the British Transport films, although one or two of them don't repay repeated watching, which is why I haven't paid £100 for the set (yet). The absolute crackers IMHO are "Elizabethan Express", "Snowdrift at Bleath Gill" and "Snow", for different reasons.

A4s, like A1s, are of course the canine genitals, and anyway I cabbed "Silver Fox" at Grantham around 1961 so "EE" is always watchable. As long as modern viewers don't think all Fifties passenger trains were like the Coronation set used for the Elizabethan! (For our friends over the pond, it was the equivalent of the Daylight or similar before WWII and the diesel takeover)

"Snowdrift at Bleath Gill" is fab because it shows the physical grind of keeping the steam railway going in a bad winter. Also, it was filmed on the Stainmore line which was closed before I got mobile. The Scouse narrator always makes me laugh - how did Deryck Guyler get onto the North Eastern?

"Snow" is just bravura film editing and reminds me of a time when the whole country didn't stop because of a few snowflakes (yeah I know, cue the Four Yorkshiremen Python sketch).

To get back to the thread, Tornado happenings:
Settle & Carlisle again this Sat 10th Oct
Barrow Hill nr Chesterfield Sun 18th Oct
Severn Valley Railway Sat 24th Oct- Sat 7th Nov
Gloucester-London Victoria also Sat 7th Nov
Kings Cross-York and return Thursday 26th Nov
Sorry, don't have the timings but please support the A1 Trust!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 06:16 AM

'Twas over the S&C both last Sat and Sun. 30+ min late Sat. Photographers, Gricers, & the curious & Well wishers were out in their thousands.. literally! Sunday am there were over 100 on Keighley station alone and about 40 at Skipton when it returned in the dark at 8pm. Got a great photo then. The run this coming Sat over the S&C commences at Hellifield where it picks up a train that started in Worcester hauled by a diseasel. It does not however return by that route, comes back over Shap and presumably 60163 comes off at Carnforth and the said diseasel then takes the train back to Worcester.
A word of warning the British Transport Police are getting concerned about and active in dealing with those members of the public who trespass on railway land or wander down the end of the platform ramp. I saw them have words with a couple of chaps a few weeks ago who did these things. And before the odd enthuiast says its not us.. they were enthuiasts. I fear similar actions will incur further restrictions.
I'll try to find the BTP guidance, for I believe they have published it and if it is on the net I'll put a link on. Also if any one can tell me how to upload the pic I got Sunday Night to this thread I'll do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 06:45 AM

Looked on the British Transport Police Site. Clicked on the bit at the top that said "site map". Scrolled down some distance to "advice and information" and clicked on "rail enthuiasts". A clear advice sheet is there which is helpful as it includes a clear statement about the right to take photographs on stations for personal use.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:10 AM

About time the transport police got on top of some of the gricers, they've been stupidly dangerous for years. Two instances, just last year I was at Corpach watching the black five from Fort William to skye. Stood by the crossing with a German photographer on holday. A mini bus full of people turn up just before the train arrives. They get out run to the crossing, next moment they are standing on the running line !! As the train slows to almost a halt, whistling, they grudginley get off the track !! But things haven't changed. I used to live in York and work in one of the museums with friends in the NRM so I got steam timings. About thirty years ago, I can't remember which loco, Scotsman or Gresley was due into York from the north. The lines at Clifton siding were filled to the brim. Idiots were standing on the main down as well as the main up as full Newcastle bound trains were flying past. There was nearly at least one fatal !! The transport police could hardly cope because as soon as they got one lot of gricers off the line, another lot were on a bit further up or down. Most of these fools had train proof coats as we called them on the NYMR. Crazy, and they still do it whether on network rail lines or preserved lines.

Yes Ed, things kept going even when it snowed. I remember being up at Levisham trying to break up the ballast along with the rest of the P-way gang having gone out on a snowy winter Sunday works train. Snow and ice every where. "It packed so densly on the level crossing that the flanges nearly rode on top of the rails !!!!!" LOL I agree with your choice for films,but I've always liked the day to day running films as well. Though I do like "Coronation" as well. Shame they never made one about the Leader.Terminus is good also.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:52 AM

I have to confess that in my time I have done some somehat naughty things. Trouble is I used to share a flat with an associate of the Master Neverers Association - some of whom like the late Paul Riley would do ANYTHING to get the shot. Climb up the outside of the Castle Keep at Newcastle? Easy. Shin up a live electricity pylon? No problem. This attitude infected a lot of people in the 1960s and it carried over to the 70s and 80s.

But these days you MUST NOT get near the running lines or go "wrong side of the fence". I would defend the gricers - most of them are now well over 50 (or 60)and have a bit of common sense. It's the people who learn about a trip from the telly who need watching. The first idiotic mass trespass of this nature I witnessed was during one of 3 Flying Scotsman trips up the ECML in 1983. There were dozens of people wandering over the main line. A bunch of us (on the right side of the fence), including a now very senior person in the preservation movement, stared open mouthed at whole families within feet of 125 mph HSTs on the fast lines. There was even a madman planting a tripod in the ballast. At that point, steam on the main line came perilously close to extinction.

I have to say, unfortunately one can see this effect with Tornado, what with all the publicity. The stupid thing is that close up you can't actually SEE anything! The best shot of Tornado I've seen so far was taken from the tower of Durham Cathedral, perfectly legally. And the chap who took it would have been able to have a good look as well as take the photo.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 06 Oct 09 - 12:47 PM

Ah but in the days of the Master Neverers (the mid 1960s) Master Herrington had not crawled through the damaged fence onto the London Tilbury & Southend line and been hit by a train. His parents had not sued B.R. and the Lord Chancellor had not given the House of Lords the dury of it reviewing fundamental rulings, one of which, until that time was that the trespasser was entirely responsible for any accident that might befall him (or her). As Master Herrington was about 6 at the time and B.R. knew about the hole in the fence and had done nothing to repair it, it is hardly surprising that their Lordships made a new ruling... B.R. were responsible, they owed Herrington & Others a duty of care! That happened in 1973.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 07:33 AM

I remember that case (Master Herrington), it seemed that it was the beginning of the litigeous society which we all seem to be copying (like so much else) from the U.S.A.! It's big business!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 06:49 PM

There was a similar incident involving another (much older) child at Toton a few years ago. Certain reports implied that it was disgraceful that all these naughty trains moved about while kiddies were wandering over EWS premises. Similar to the stuff we regularly get about occupation crossings.

Very substantial galvanised fencing with triple spear tops is appearing everywhere on the network - ugly but I suppose inevitable. But that won't stop the er, "artists" who swarm round underground depots, 25KV electrified lines and anywhere else they can wield their aerosols. The little darlings' creative efforts have even spread to rural canal lock gates and bridges recently!

Bah, humbug.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: ced2
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:08 AM

It and 46233 are heading South over Shap on Saturday, 46233 dep Carlisle at 16.11 Carnforth 17.30, Tornado about 1 hr later.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:36 PM

Does this mean I can no longer put pennies on the line?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 02:32 PM

Only on the clothes line! *g*

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 01:04 PM

Just to keep everone in the frame, a few dates for your diary.

Sat 24th Oct - 7th Nov Severn Valley Railway

7th Nov The Thames Tornado......Ealing Broardway - Gloucester - London Victoria. Promoted by Pathfinder.

26th Nov The Cathedrals Express.....Kings Cross - York - Kings Cross. Promoted by Steam Dreams.

27th Nov The Cathedrals Express.....Kings Cross - York - Kings Cross. Promoted by Steam Dreams.

21th Dec The Cathedrals Express.....Kent Circular. Promoted by Steam Dreams.

Hope you all find this useful. If people would like me to list other railtours or railway events, please let me know.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 31 Oct 09 - 02:47 PM

Thanks for that, Phot(ter?)

I thought it would be nice to ride on one of the Kings Cross-York ones but then realised we'd have to get to London, we'd have to stay overnight, and stay overnight again. then get back home, which means we'd get a bill of £500+ for two. But hopefully 60163 will touch down in the E. Midlands shortly which will be a bit more practical for us.

Did anybody go to the National Railway Museum annual dinner? Plus Andy Scott's farewell speech?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bainbo
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 01:29 PM

Apparently the North-of-England-built Tornado managed to rescue passengers left stranded when those softy southern trains couldn't cope with the snow.

I wonder which will be the first operating company to decide to modernise by switching to steam?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 05:20 PM

But then all the green softies would complain!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 06:59 PM

Excellent. I heard about it today. Steam was always better at dealing with snow, even the "wrong" type, and leaves on the line etc. Electric and diesel railcar traction is lightweight.

Though I always loved to see the sparks in the snow and frost when the shoe hit a patch of it. I remember emu's slipping up the hill but steam nearly always managed it even heavy freight.

Bring back steam and think of it as another way of getting rid of fossil fuels so we won't be tempted in the future!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 08:50 PM

Thanks for posting that Bainbo, it had passed me by! Well done Mark Allatt (he's the chairman of the A1 Trust). "If any train operator wishes to modernise by using steam please contact us". And there are now a hundred more potential covenanters after his generous gesture.

Careful though Mark, Tornado did slip a bit on its first trip over the Settle and Carlisle. But then slipping is in LNER Pacifics' DNA isn't it? (ducks to avoid lumps of coal).

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 09:19 PM

I tried to post earlier, but a glitch had the lot!

Back in the eighties, there were a few passenger trains and at least one goods (Freight) working rescued by a preserved steam loco, when the modern traction had failed. Good to see Tornado doing her stuff again.

I think soft Southern trains is a little harsh though, soft Southern electrics maybe! Would you argue with a Southern Railway Z Class?(3 cylinder 0-8-0T) Barking up the bank to Exeter Central(Now thats a climb!!)?

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Paul Burke
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 04:01 AM

A few years ago Network Rail expensively converted a few redundant trains to third- rail de-icers- the idea is that they would run round the network before services start, removing the insulating ice from the conductor rails. Once the services start running, the trains keep the track ice- free. Worked a treat. But the operating companies wouldn't pay to man them or maintain them, and a warm winter or two left them congratulating themselves on their prudence. So when they were actually needed, they were rusted up, vandalised and unusable in sidings.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 12:53 PM

http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2008/08/shape-of-things-to-come-at-brent-cross.html

Over at the UK Steam Trips site, it mentions Victoria to Leicester trip next February - The Rutlander. I thought how on earth can a train get from Victoria to the St Pancras line, and of course it can by using the Dudding Hill goods line from Acton to Brent. The above site provides some interesting discussion concerning Thameslink developements in the Brent/Cricklewood area.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 06:01 AM

Here are the latest tour dates for Tornado.

Saturday 24th April - 'The Tyne-Tees Tornado' - Gloucester - Newcastle-upon-Tyne - Gloucester (Tornado York - Newcastle-upon-Tyne - Durham coast route via Stockton and Hartlepool - Darlington) - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Sunday 25th April - Wednesday 5th May - Locomotion: National Railway Museum at Shildon. Private event on Sunday 25th April; special event Saturday 1st to Monday 3rd May, details tbc; Tornado will be on exhibition at other times.

Saturday 8th May – 'The Cathedrals Express' (London Kings Cross to York and return) - promoted by Steam Dreams

Saturday 15th May - 'The Canterbury Tornado' - London Victoria to Canterbury and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Saturday 22nd May - 'The Cathedrals Express' (LondonEuston to Chester and return) - promoted by Steam Dreams

Friday 28th May - 'The Great Eastern Explorer' - London Liverpool Street to Norwich and return - promoted by Amethyst Experience Ltd.

Saturday 29th May - 'The Bath & Bristol Explorer' - Tornado heads west from Kent to Bath and Bristol - promoted by Amethyst Experience Ltd.

Monday 31st May - 'The Canterbury Tornado' - London Victoria to Canterbury and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Thursday 3rd June – 'The Cathedrals Express' (London Kings Cross to York and return) - promoted by Steam Dreams

Saturday 12th June - 'The Canterbury Tornado' - London Victoria to Canterbury and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Wednesday 16th June - 'The Purbeck Tornado' (London Waterloo to Swanage and return) - promoted by UK Railtours

Sunday 20th June - 'The Cathedral Express' Father's Day Luncheon and Dinner – promoted by Steam Dreams

Thursday 24th June - 'The Border Raider', Tornado's first northbound trip over Shap' (Euston to Carlisle and return) - promoted by the A1 Trust, bookings though Steam Dreams

In a change to the planned date in April, Tornado will now be tackling the legendary climb up Shap bank from the south for the first time on the 24th of June. Alas, operational issues led to the decision to postpone the run. However, the change of date means that Tornado will run all the way back to Crewe rather than un-hooking at Hellifield. This ground-breaking train cannot be booked online so please Click here to download the booking form or 'phone Steam Dreams on 01483 20988, bookings accepted for the April trip will be reserved for the 24th June (if this date is not suitable please contact Steam Dreams to discuss further).

The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust is pleased to confirm details of its first tour of 2010. Book now if you want to join Tornado as she travels north to Carlisle over the fearsome Shap Bank and takes in the fabulous scenery of the Cumbrian Fells and the Settle & Carlisle railway, all in one day!

In 2009 Tornado ran three sell out tours over the world famous Settle & Carlisle line, and to satisfy demand, the Trust is once again taking the locomotive over this route on Wednesday 21st April 2010. In addition, the locomotive will also work for the first time from Crewe to Carlisle via the West Coast Main Line, having to compete with the long arduous climb over Shap Bank before descending down into the Border city. The tour departs behind a modern electric locomotive from London Euston and calls at Watford Junction, Milton Keynes and Tamworth along the route to enable as many people as possible to join us for the day. Tornado joins 'The Border Raider' at Crewe and will haul the train along the West Coast Main Line direct to Carlisle. With around two and a half hours in Carlisle to visit the castle or museum, or just have a relaxing lunch in one of the local restaurants, the return tour will depart from Carlisle and head over the famous Settle & Carlisle line with its many tunnels, lofty viaducts and magnificent views. From Hellifield, our train runs to Crewe where Tornado is unhooked before returning to London via all outward stations behind a (less!) modern locomotive. Both these routes were haunts of the A1 class in the 1950s when working to and from Scotland, so once again Tornado will be providing a spectacular day out, and will also recreate history, all in the same day.

Bookings for this tour are being handled by the Trust's agent Steam Dreams. Ticket prices start at £89 per person in Standard Class, First Class non-dining is £129 per person and Premier Dining is £189 per person. Childrens' tickets are available at a 10% discount to these prices. Please note that credit card bookings will attract a 2% charge and debit cards a 1% charge. Alternatively you can complete and return a booking form, together with a cheque, and your booking will not be subject to any additional charges.

Saturday 26th June - 'The Bristolian' - (Bristol to London Paddington and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Sunday 4th July - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Saturday 10th July - West Midlands (Tornado from Bristol) to Carmarthen and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Sunday 11th July - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Monday 12th July - Friday 16th July - Tornado visits the West Somerset Railway

Saturday 17th July - 'The Solent Tornado' - Bristol to Salisbury and Eastleigh and return - promoted by Ranger Trains

Sunday 18th July - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Sunday 25th July - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Monday 26th July - 'The Midland Tornado' - London Victoria (Tornado from Gloucester) to Leicester and return via Midland Main Line - promoted by UK Railtours

Thursday 29th July - Tuesday 10th August - Bluebell Railway 50th Anniversary Celebrations

Saturday 14th August - 'The Cathedrals Express' (London King's Cross to York and return) - promoted by Steam Dreams

Saturday 21st August - Hampshire (Tornado from Bristol) to Plymouth and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Sunday 22nd August - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Saturday 28th August - 'The Bristolian' - (Bristol to London, Paddington and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Saturday 11th to Sunday 12th September - Bristol to Falmouth and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Monday 13th September - Friday 17th September - Tornado visits the West Somerset Railway

Sunday 19th September - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Saturday 25th September - Hampshire (60163 Tornado and 6024 King Edward I from Bristol) to Plymouth and return - promoted by Pathfinder Tours

Sunday 26th September - 'Torbay Express' - (Bristol to Kingswear and return) - promoted by Torbay Express Ltd.

Friday 22nd October - Doncaster to Edinburgh & return - promoted by Pathfinder

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Paul Burke
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:03 AM

Arriving at Upper Heyford lock on the Oxford Canal last Friday- a whistle in the distance, a second one closer by, and Sir Lamiel charged past with the dozen or so carriages of the Cathedrals Express. The best possible advert for steam power- fast, clean, quiet, just a puff from the chimney each carriage length. Of course, I'd just got off to work the lock, and the camera was sitting out of reach on the boat.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:53 AM

At work the other week (Brampton, just outside Huntingdon), about a mile as the crow flies, there was the sound of steam working hard and fast up the ECML, just the sound is enough to make your hair stand on end.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:55 AM

Many thanks for the list - infinitely more interesting than the election!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 02:55 PM

No worries Bonzo!

Ill try and get a full list of GWR 175 events, and post them below the line.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 07 Oct 10 - 05:41 PM

After being withdrawn for work to fix a number of broken firebox stays, caused by a very high number of heating and cooling cycles since her launch (Far higher than the A1s would have experienced in LNER/BR days), the trust and the builders, Dampflokwerk Menningham say the boiler is performing well. The green missile is back on track for another good season (No pun intended!).

I'll give updates for any other new build projects if people want.

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 08 Oct 10 - 03:59 AM

Lets have them all Chris!

I saw Tornado just a fortnight ago at Bishops Lydeard. I think they said it was due for a few main line runs with 'Braunton'

Black 5 George Stephenson was being offloaded from a low-loader - see here - George Stephenson