Does Folk Exist?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 05:50 PM

100 For The Fun Of It !

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 05:51 PM

JC, the man who could start an argument in an empty room.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 06:14 PM

'glueman' (to self): he's hearing those voices again.

Nasty temporal lobe: Ah fuck him, the guy's a twat.

Nice temporal lobe: No he means well, he's sticking up for what he belives in. Be kind, be generous.

Nasty temporal lobe: So you saying he isn't an opinionated sonnofabitch and a shit singer?

Nice temporal lobe: No, people speak well of him.

Nasty temporal lobe: Your funeral.

Nice temporal lobe: I believe if you give people the opportunity to explain they'll come round in the end.

Nasty temporal lobe: Yeah well don't come crying to me when he starts spouting that 1964 shit.

Nice temporal lobe: It's 1954.

Nasty temporal lobe: Who gives a fuck.

Nice temporal lobe: They do.

Nasty temporal lobe: What happened anyways.

Nice temporal lobe: Do you always have the last word?

Nasty temporal lobe: Fuck you.

Nice temporal lobe: Well, do you.

Nasty temporal lobe: Shithead.

Nice temporal lobe: Insults now.

Nasty temporal lobe: Go fuck yourself creep.

Nice temporal lobe: I think you should apologise. Some people like definitions. They find it helps.

Nasty temporal lobe: Helps how?

Nice temporal lobe: It gives their lives meaning.

Nasty temporal lobe: A date gives their lives meaning?

Nice temporal lobe: Indeed.

Nasty temporal lobe: You're as crazy as those fucks.

Nice temporal lobe: Well at least I don't write out conversations with myself.

Nasty temporal lobe: You're doing it right now.

Nice temporal lobe: That's different.

Nasty temporal lobe: It's to make a point I suppose?

Nice temporal lobe: Exactly.

Nasty temporal lobe: Arsehole.

Nice temporal lobe: Goodnight.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 06:17 PM

"Rifleman,still firing blanks?"

Ahh, Captain Birdseed, still hanging around are you? I'd have thought you'd making more self-promotion "videos" of your "music". You know, you and Walkabouts Verse should really get together, you have more in common than you know. In a word over sized egos.

With lack of evidence regarding the existence of Carroll's so-called "enemies" I am forced to believe that they are indeed simply imaginary.

"JC, the man who could start an argument in an empty room"

Just because he has this urge to argue, goodness knows why.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 06:20 PM

I am saying that if club organisers present ALL the music on SO'P's list as 'folk' and (as he did) define it as such, they are incapable of finding their 'folk' arses with both hands.

No danger of you ever missing your folk arse anyway with your head rammed so firmly up there. Meanwhile, back in the real world, Folk Music (as with folklore) still has something to do with what living people are doing, which brings me back to the opening post of 1954 and All That.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: reggie miles
Date: 14 Jul 09 - 11:33 PM

Yup

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 02:43 AM

And more childish invective - just like being back in Speke Secondary Modern.
Ah - nostalgia
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 02:48 AM

I've been saying all along that glueman is arguing with a Bad Folkie in his head. Nice to have it confirmed.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 03:25 AM

Can I remind everyone who doesn't understand the title this is A Discursive Thread, not an Inquisition. Anyone who fancies themselves as Torquemada or showing their shiny instruments to would-be victims will find plenty of those kind of 'debates' elsewhere on Mudcat. Let them piss in other wells.

Brow-beating, the use of question marks as meat hooks and whatever cock of the walk status they may enjoy in normal life hold no thrall here. Bullying will not be tolerated, which is to say it will not be read, by the OP at least. Don't expect baiting traps to be picked up, I'll be responding to the last sensible post even if I disagree with it.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 04:30 AM

"I'll be responding to the last sensible post even if I disagree with it."

With evasion, meaningless jargon and invective, no doubt.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 05:34 AM

That's precisely the kind of bullying I'm talking about, but then you already know that. Be nice or go away.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:22 AM

Looking at Stringsinger's No.6 and SOPs footnote comment I must admit to having gone down a route of enjoying their apparent authority then gradually despising them. If there are to be footnotes they might be done with context, wit and one eye on the cliche they have become. Perhaps hoping to discover something new, even when it's old, in a voice or a song is inhibited by written exposition, rather like those people who wander round the National Gallery in headphones because they're not sure whether to like something or not.

The question has to be, would an album be any less appealing a listen without the attributions or have more mileage, as one finds what the folk route if any, is.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:32 AM

Jim Carroll

Bryan:
You are right, and I am grateful that there are clubs like yours which continue to live up to what it says on the tin - I don't think there are enough of them, but we've argued the toss about that one in the past.

I think there are are a lot more than you realise or are prepared to admit.

I am saying that if club organisers present ALL the music on SO'P's list as 'folk'

They don't. The only evidence that you have is that quote by Shameless O'Shamrock that you have used half a dozen times now despite the fact that it was refuted by Sailor Ron here and S O'S acknowledged that he was right.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:33 AM

The thing is, 'glueman' I wouldn't be 'on your case' if you didn't insist on talking such pernicious nonsense. At the start of this thread you concede that "Folk Exists" (Wow! Great concession!) but elsewhere you insist that the baby boomers have got it (folk music) all wrong and should be doing something different - although you refuse, or are unable, to tell us exactly, what they, or succeeding generations, should be doing instead. I maintain that without such a manifesto you are playing straight into the hands of the 'anything goes, all music is folk music' brigade (perhaps you're one of them - it's hard to tell).

You also don't like definitions and state that citing sources is "an extraordinary thing to do" (does that mean that citing sources is wrong?). So, in spite of all the First Year Social Sciences mumbo jumbo, you appear to have an anti-intellectual bent as well. Further up the thread you tell us that one of your occupations is 'lecturer'. Do you tell your students that citing sources is "an extraordinary thing to do"?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:39 AM

The worrying thing is, I can only relate to this stuff if it comes with the right provenance. Provenance is part of the experience; provenance determines authenticity; provenance is the comfort of a higher intellectual authority. If Folk exists at all, then it's only in terms of a Canonical Orthodoxy to which all priests & preachers must be ultimately answerable, even Feral Hedge types like myself who might still be heard muttering in his cups if floor singers are still sourcing from their Steeleye Span LPs.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 06:48 AM

They don't. The only evidence that you have is that quote by Shameless O'Shamrock that you have used half a dozen times now despite the fact that it was refuted by Sailor Ron here and S O'S acknowledged that he was right.

Steady on there, Sycophantic Mollusc - I still stand by that list: all of that music I have heard in The Fleetwood Folk Club, not necessarily on the same night I grant, but all of it I accept as being Folk Music according the reasons given in the 1954 and All That thread - i.e. Folk as Flotsam, determined by context rather than content, and the nebulousness of the 1954 Definition which might as well be saying All music is Folk Music - I ain't never heard no horse sing a song. Furthermore, in my ongoing experience of what happens in Folk Clubs I'd say that list is pretty conservative.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:12 AM

S O'S

even the occasional Traditional Song and Ballad.

Sailor Ron

well over 60% of what is performed is 'traditional'[ that is if you include broadsheets, chapbooks, and 'old songs by unknown authors], plus a fair number of what I would call songs written in the traditional style or idiom.

Spot the difference.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:14 AM

Potted history: aged about 16 I began going in to folk clubs. I liked the music but thought the stuff that came with it was complete crap. So I had to decide, do you throw away the music or continue with it as a secret vice? I kept buying records and the one-way relationship with folk continued.
Occasionally I'd long for something of the 'community' of folk but it was like selling everything you believed in for a small hit of the good stuff, the attitude, clothes, what's right and wrong, one of us or them, absolute bull. Provenance means nothing to me in the sense I can tell the real thing with my ears and memory, if I'm duped it'll have to be a damned good ringer.

So for most of the time I'm folk's n****r, always on the outside looking in the shop window, wanting the sweets at the back but not prepared to swallow the twaddle. BTW, that isn't a romantic vision of folk or myself, it's a fact and people might examine their own consciences to see whether they fit the picture.
It's music, that's it.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM

Whoever asked about lecturing, I haven't for many years. The comparison doesn't work either, folk is not a 'study' despite those who'd like to make it one. All that historical re-enactment, box ticking pedantry is hateful. It's music, not a lecture. Kill the footnotes and intros and reach out to people. Trust in their ears.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 07:35 AM

glueman, I'm sorry that you hate everyone else and that you're so sorry for yourself - it must be miserable being you. But I still don't know what you're actually talking about.

For example:

always on the outside looking in the shop window, wanting the sweets at the back but not prepared to swallow the twaddle

What twaddle?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 08:00 AM

" ... folk is not a 'study' despite those who'd like to make it one. All that historical re-enactment, box ticking pedantry is hateful. It's music, not a lecture. Kill the footnotes and intros and reach out to people. Trust in their ears."

Which is where we must part company, 'glueman'. It's music alright - but music with a context. To me it's not just a pleasant noise. At the weekend I paid my annual pilgrimage to a village once inhabited by one of our great national poets. He was an early folk song collector and we know that both of his parents sang (his father was a noted ballad singer in the area over 200 years ago). On the Friday night dozens of people from all over the area turned up, at one of the local pubs, to play tunes and to sing old songs. I experienced an extraordinary sense of connection and continuity. There was no attempt at "historical re-enactment" and no "box ticking" - it just happened (with the aid of some flyers and email). To me it was the context which helped to make that night special - along with the quality of the music, of course.

I'm obviously not like you, 'glueman' - I want to know about things. I want to understand context and to divine meaning. I despise 'wilful ignorance' and anti-intellectualism and think that these are serious problems in our society. Perhaps you'll tell me that this attitude constitutes some sort of 'moral failing' on my part - but you'll have a hard job convincing me!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 08:31 AM

"academic folklorists - card-indexers of the human soul"

A.L.Lloyd

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 09:34 AM

"glueman, I'm sorry that you hate everyone else and that you're so sorry for yourself - it must be miserable being you"

I'm sorry you draw that conclusion though in truth it's yet another ploy in your argument, so let neither of us shed crocodile tears for the other. I lead a perfectly fulfilled life, we differ on the nonsense that surrounds folk music that's all.
That nonsense includes the historical fussiness, the personalities who valourise that priggery, the self-appointed hierarchies, the 'real' vs unreal kneejerks, the fucking endless footnotes, the introductions, the general mistrust of youth or physical attractiveness, the mistrust of anyone who isn't them, the hale-fellow bullshit, the time-served idiocy, the folkier than thou arseholery, people who want to flood other people's discussion real or virtual because they might not be at the centre, the high priests and cardinals who want to turn a common currency into a religion and the intellectual prissiness that replaced folk's human warmth long ago.
For all those reasons and many similar ones it's often hard to believe folk exists. Naming the guilty who have occupied the music I like also makes me feel better. I don't expect to win the war, they're too well dug in but if the skirmishes make one of them reflect it's worthwhile.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 09:42 AM

the historical fussiness, the personalities who valourise that priggery, the self-appointed hierarchies, the 'real' vs unreal kneejerks, the fucking endless footnotes, the introductions, the general mistrust of youth or physical attractiveness, the mistrust of anyone who isn't them, the hale-fellow bullshit, the time-served idiocy, the folkier than thou arseholery, people who want to flood other people's discussion real or virtual because they might not be at the centre, the high priests and cardinals who want to turn a common currency into a religion and the intellectual prissiness that replaced folk's human warmth long ago.

This all sounds horrible, God knows, but most of it doesn't bear much relation to any Designated Folk Context I've ever been in (thankfully). I honestly think you ought to get out more.

Naming the guilty who have occupied the music I like also makes me feel better.

Go for it. So far you haven't named a single person.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 09:45 AM

Number One in a series of One Hundred:

Pip Radish

Collect the set.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 09:50 AM

Rifleman,yes I am promoting myself,and I also promoting traditional music.
unfortunately it has become necessary,as a performer,to publicise constantly,it has nothing to do with ego,it is necessary in 2009,as a means of professional survival.
apologies to others here for thread drift

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 09:56 AM

Spot the difference.

I never said anything about proportions, Sycophant - but even so I think Ron's 60% is a tad on the generous side - especially given his various caveats which many here, myself included, might disagree with. All of which is besides the point because a significant proportion of what is sung in any folk club is in no way shape or form traditional and yet it is still called folk. This is why I thought it was maybe time for a pragmatic reconsideration of what we mean when we say folk in the light - or otherwise - of Maud Karpeles' definition of 1954 which, to the Orthodox, is talking about a music which is dead, however so often revived.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:03 AM

Why Sycophant? I like to understand my insults.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:03 AM

" ... includes the historical fussiness, the personalities who valourise that priggery, the self-appointed hierarchies, the 'real' vs unreal kneejerks, the fucking endless footnotes, the introductions, the general mistrust of youth or physical attractiveness, the mistrust of anyone who isn't them, the hale-fellow bullshit, the time-served idiocy, the folkier than thou arseholery, people who want to flood other people's discussion real or virtual because they might not be at the centre, the high priests and cardinals who want to turn a common currency into a religion and the intellectual prissiness that replaced folk's human warmth long ago."

I make that 14 straw men,'glueman' - you will be busy knocking all those down, won't you?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:18 AM

""unfortunately it has become necessary,as a performer,to publicise constantly,it has nothing to do with ego,it is necessary in 2009,as a means of professional survival.
apologies to others here for thread drift""

Indeed it has Dick, and the recent departure from the scene of one of my favourite artists because he wants to earn enough to feed his family is a pointer to that fact which SHOULD be obvious to the meanest intellect. And that is the wrong man apologising.

I've known Dick Miles for a very long time indeed, and I can assure you that his words and actions have far less to do with ego, than those of his accuser.

A fine singer, and that rarest of performers, one who is better than he thinks he is. Does that smack of egotism?

Don T.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:19 AM

But the chances of you addressing the points are what..? Keep playing the man, not the ball, it's easier than self reflection.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:23 AM

Keep playing the man, not the ball, it's easier than self reflection.

Wise words, glueman.

Number One in a series of One Hundred:

Pip Radish

Collect the set.

OK, I'll take that. When and in what way have I ever "occupied the music you like"? What are you actually talking about?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:24 AM

Yes it does, at the singaround at the Beech, Chorlton, Manchester, tonight at 8pm, when a fairly disparate bunch of people of varying abilities and tastes will associate freely and willingly for a night of mainly, but not exclusively traditional songs. There will be banter, there will be laughter, there will be moments of spine-tingling beauty and moments of yearning melancholy to bring a tear to the eye of the most hardbitten cynic. There will also be a couple of fairly bobbins performances, but not without character and spirit. There will be people who play semi-professionally and others who are rank outsiders. There will be old lags and first timers. All will recieve a warm welcome, none will be excluded.

Children and grandchildren of the revival, many of the attendees are, for sure. But not prigs, not arseholes, not priestly mediators or whatever other labels anyone would want to stick on us. Just ordinary people who like to get together from time to time after a hard day's work or retirement to share a few old songs, tell a few stories and down a few pints. We tend to like traditional folk - others, at another pub further up the road get together to sing Beatles songs and Brian Eno songs and Beach Boys songs because that's what they like. Different strokes for different folks...

All welcome, anyhow.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:29 AM

You don't recognise the picture of the folk revival I painted?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:40 AM

Why Sycophant? I like to understand my insults.

Oh, when was it? Ages ago now - on one of those interminable WAV threads in which your good self and Don joined forces with regard to a grammatical idiosyncrasy on WAV's part which I justified in terms of a greater vernacular pragmatism.

Brian Eno songs

What the - ? You know, in all my folk years I don't think I've ever heard an Eno song in a Folk Club. Time to work up a version of Third Uncle I think...

Have fun at The Beech anyway you chaps & be sure to pass on our regards to anyone present who might remember us. An earlier point though, whilst Folk will exist at the Beech tonight, where's it all gone tomorrow night? Does Folk exist through us? Or do we exist through Folk?

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 10:51 AM

Glueman:
the historical fussiness, the personalities who valourise that priggery, the self-appointed hierarchies, the 'real' vs unreal kneejerks, the fucking endless footnotes, the introductions, the general mistrust of youth or physical attractiveness, the mistrust of anyone who isn't them, the hale-fellow bullshit, the time-served idiocy, the folkier than thou arseholery, people who want to flood other people's discussion real or virtual because they might not be at the centre, the high priests and cardinals who want to turn a common currency into a religion and the intellectual prissiness that replaced folk's human warmth long ago.

Is this supposed to be a picture of a folk revival then? And which folk "revival" is being talked about? Is this supposed to be a picture of the folk world? Lord knows I don't get out and about more than 3 or 4 times a week these days to join in whatever gathering is going on in my area (or to play at a gig), but I haven't met any of this.

I was at a local pub singaround on Monday night. Around 16 people sitting or standing, plus onlookers and other locals. There was a lot of singing - and some of that from Johnny Collins's repertoire (in tribute) by many there who had known him. And what glorious singing it was! I - who don't include this stuff in my own repertoire - sang myself hoarse as we raised the roof. Then there were the instruments - concertinas, guitars, fiddle, banjos, mandolins, accordion - sometimes solo, sometimes in duets and trios, sometimes all at once - on jazz tunes, a blues or two, some old-time music. But, most of all, there was immense humour, backchat, rude comments and jokes, plenty of beer drinking (including some of the best-kept pints of Adnams Broadside I've drunk outside Southwold) - interspersed with some excellent, free spicy snacks from the Nepalese landlord.

What more could I have asked for? Well, to do it all again - which we're going to do tomorrow night when the Broadwood Morris will alternate dances with a local Appalachian clog team in the pub car park, followed by a session in the bar.

I don't recognise any of the tedious things you cite in the experiences I've had in folk clubs, singarounds and sessions - but perhaps I don't get out enough...

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:07 AM

Curious that someone who thinks "of" and "have" are the same word can come out with phrases like "greater vernacular pragmatism".

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:10 AM

"and I also promoting traditional music"

to be polite about it, what absolute rubbish, you're promotong yourself and yourself alone..

"apologies to others here for thread drift "

I don't apologise for any such thing, it's all part and parcel of the variation the "what is folk?" theme, which this thread is.

"I don't think I've ever heard an Eno song in a Folk Club"

Don't give me any ideas, I get enough of my own *LOL*

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:19 AM

Rifleman, stop flaming.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM

You don't recognise the picture of the folk revival I painted?

No. But I do recognize the sort of mind that thinks that way.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:41 AM

Curious that someone who thinks "of" and "have" are the same word can come out with phrases like "greater vernacular pragmatism".

So you found it then? Well done that man! Now, stop trying to be smart and go back & read what I said back then and try to get your brain around a notion in which the pragmatics of vernacular usage determine the grammatical sense of the word rather than the pedantry you otherwise seem so fond of. Think of it as Linguistic Folklore - which is to say the way people actually use language as everyday living phenomenon rather than the rules of grammar which we're born with a complete preparedness for anyway.   

It's a matter of simple phonetics, with could have sounding very like could of in certain dialects - cuduv - so when a person writes it, they naturally write could of. The pragmatic intention is obvious, as is the derivation, in which, in this context, of does indeed mean have.

Folk? Pedantry? Death of vernacular diversity? Perish the thought!

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:49 AM

"Rifleman, stop flaming."

is that really the best you can do? *LOL*

as long as pomposity exists in these threads (and, oh dear, does it exist!), I and others will point it out.

"Does Folk exist through us? Or do we exist through Folk?"

or does folk exist outside of 1954? *LOL* sorry couldn't resist

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: TheSnail
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:50 AM

Suibhne O'Piobaireachd

Now, stop trying to be smart and go back & read what I said back then and try to get your brain around a notion in which the pragmatics of vernacular usage determine the grammatical sense of the word rather than the pedantry you otherwise seem so fond of.

No.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 11:59 AM

Mine's all experience in the field, confirmed by the Mudcat welcoming committee Jacko.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 12:18 PM

"Maud Karpeles' definition of 1954"
Er no, and you know it.
The definition adopted by The International Folk Music Council in 1954 - but any lifebelt will do when the boat's sinking.
Even if ithad been devised by Auntie Maud alone, at least she had a CV worth considering... which is more than can be said of......
Why do you people insist on distorting the argument?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Oh dear..here he goes again, to quote Jethro Tull...Livin' in the Past. Enough already! I'm not even going to mention Maud Karpeles (NOT Aunt Maude, I'm sure she wasn't your aunt)

"at least she had a CV worth considering... which is more than can be said of......" now, now, an attempt to silence me by a laughable accusation of flaming, what's good for the goose etc....

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM

Why do you people insist on distorting the argument?

I gathered the 1954 was essentially the work of Maud Karpeles; if I'm wrong then so be it. The International Folk Music Council is now the more sensibly named International Council for Traditional Music whose objectives bear repeating here:

to further the study, practice, documentation, preservation and dissemination of traditional music, including folk, popular, classical and urban music, and dance of all countries.

That'll do just nicely!

Sinking? I've never felt so buoyant since joining this wretched forum.

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: glueman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 12:36 PM

"Why do you people insist on distorting the argument?"

No idea, perhaps it's Authentically Folk? As the men in Shimmy's head would say:
Mr Bladder "You're a git."
Unwitting Dupe "No, you're a git"
Mr Bladder "You've just called me a git, you must be losing the argument if you resort to calling people names. That's typical of your sort.
Unwitting Dupe: But...
Mr Bladder: And don't go twisting my words.
Unwitting Dupe: I wasn't twisting your words.
Mr Bladder: Twisting words eh? That's a sure sign you are in the wrong.

etc, etc, etc..........

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 12:44 PM

"'m not even going to mention Maud Karpeles"
But you just did -make up your maind
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Does Folk Exist?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 09 - 01:15 PM

Rifleman,please let us know what you have done,in the folk revival.
I understand you play a 5 string banjo,and have a recording studio,and now you have just bought a ukelele,perhaps you might honour us with some Carter family imitations,or are you a budding George Formby imitator,ever done anything original,or are you a plagiarist.